النص الكامل لحلقة 10: Kim’s Journey from Atheism to Faith & the 12 Steps of Recovery

meet, and you're like, okay, tell me your story. 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:13.120 And so I'm like, okay. 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:27.439 And so I I kind of start from as as early as I can remember, and then I get to the part in in my childhood as a teenager, when I was 18, my mom passed by suicide. 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:29.360 And so I'm sharing this to Kim. 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:33.439 And as soon as I said that, Kim grabs my hand and she said, What did you say? 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:36.000 And I said, Yeah, my mom passed by suicide. 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:39.360 And and Kim said, minded too. 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:58.399 And I'm like getting emotional thinking about it because it it's like those moments where like time just stops and it's shocking and it's beautiful, and it's just I just never experienced anything like that. 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:08.240 And I remember feeling I was at, you know, faith level, I was at a level, you know, maybe four or five. 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:17.519 I didn't know there was a number ranking, but I know but but it just spiked up to certainty, like off the charts. 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:29.199 And I just never talked to somebody or met somebody that experienced that and outside of my siblings. 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:40.319 And so that was a moment for me that I just finally felt seen and heard and understood in in a very unique and traumatic way. 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:45.759 And it it just completely changed my life. 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:48.639 And I was like, Can you be my sponsor? 00:07:51.360 --> 00:08:06.639 And so yeah, I just love that story just because it um it just it just shows how much love we can receive from God and how guided we are. 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:22.399 And you know, I took that aligned action to do the work and to be free and the affirmations I received just from that and just to continue sobriety for me. 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:40.000 And so, yeah, I just want to thank you for oh so I remember pretty much that way, but there was one other component was you were wearing a baseball cap that said Portland, and it had the sign that when you're driving, I lived in Portland for 12 years. 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:45.039 And when you drive across one of the bridges, there's this big Portland sign, you know, the one with the deer. 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:45.919 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:47.279 And that's on your head, I think. 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:50.960 Anyway, it was so that was yet another connector. 00:08:51.279 --> 00:09:01.600 Um, and I went to that meeting wanting to, I I love to sponsor, I never sponsor more than one person at a time. 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:10.399 And um, being relatively new to Louisville, I'm not immersed in the culture, you know, or the even the AA cultures quite as much. 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.120 And I wasn't going to a ton of meetings. 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.799 Um, and I don't know that I'd ever gone to that meeting before. 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:46.399 So there were all kinds of things, but isn't it funny how uh, as in funny, interesting, how um we accept so many things that are beyond our understanding and seem, you know, if you think about like sound waves that travel and I can talk to someone in another country, and I well, you know, those are sound waves, and there's the internet, whatever that means, and there's satellites, and I'm just like, well, yeah, you know, science, right? 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:58.559 But when God shows up in these ways, you know, or something, even if you prefer to call it something let's say spiritual, you know, when when there's forces and energies that align and we're like, huh, really? 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:07.039 Do you think that really could be, you know, our culture of the last oh hundred or so years, right, has led us to be, we're fact-driven. 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:08.399 We want the evidence, man. 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:11.759 Yeah, you know, we want to be, want to see all that proof lined up. 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:23.919 But the fact is that if you just if you just open your awareness, you start to, you know, and and there has to be a willingness to um to sort of look heavenward, whichever direction that may be. 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:25.440 Absolutely. 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:27.279 No, that's such a good point. 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:55.200 And you know, I think when we continue this path of choosing your awareness to the wonder and the mysterious path that you can go when you're not trying to control the circumstances and the details and hows and spend all that energy when you're just like, okay, I know I'm being led by something so powerful and so good and so loving. 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:58.320 I'm gonna just let that unfold. 00:10:58.480 --> 00:10:59.759 That's it exactly. 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:18.559 And for me, it also has especially since uh um I came to having a faith so late in life, um, that certainty is something that I I could it took a long time before I could even plant my flag. 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:24.720 And I pull that flag up sometimes and go, well, maybe, you know, um in some regards. 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:40.080 But if I just don't worry about trying to achieve something, and I just can try to just pay attention to what is, just the way I think about what you said about like all the different things that happened in the meeting to kind of connect us. 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:43.600 And you had even, let's call it, prayed for it, right? 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:47.120 You know, you had set an intention, that's prayer, right? 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:52.879 It's all prayer, you know, whenever we reach out of ourselves into the great bigness of life, right? 00:11:53.519 --> 00:12:09.279 Um, and yet we I think that we just don't want to be afraid, we don't trust ourselves, we don't trust a power greater than ourselves, you know, we don't know how to navigate that, and it takes time. 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:10.720 Yeah,

yeah, it does. 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:13.120 And you mentioned that it it took some time for you. 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:15.279 I'm still in that time. 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:15.840 Right. 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:17.360 No, and I mean it's a journey. 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:18.159 It's a journey. 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:32.159 I think it's a journey for life, you know, but but some things become clearer, you know, like being clear for myself that I'm on the right path for me, you know, that's not something that's uncertain for me anymore, you know. 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:40.559 Yeah, but but discarding discarding mindsets that aren't helpful, you know, or or having a deeper awareness. 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:48.240 I mean, uh God draws you in, draws me in, you know, and um it's just learning how to trust God more and more. 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:49.759 Totally. 00:12:50.159 --> 00:13:00.320 And I want to go into that and learn a little bit more about your story and whatever you're you know, inspired to share with us. 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:05.600 Um I was raised as an atheist. 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:11.120 My parents did not believe in God, and I was taught to not believe in God. 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:24.399 Um the so I I you know from my early days, the idea that if I wanted to get something done, if I wanted to, you know, that I had to count on, you know, it wasn't gonna be God. 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:32.320 And so as a little kid, um, you know, then who's gonna be the people I'm gonna look to? 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:34.799 My parents, of course, you know, family. 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:37.600 And then my parents divorced when I was 12. 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:50.080 And my mom uh was an alcoholic and her alcoholism just bloomed and she she never sought treatment, and in the end, it led to her taking her life many, many years later, but still. 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:53.200 Um, but I quickly saw that. 00:13:53.279 --> 00:14:01.039 Um, I mean, talk about feeling alone in the world, you know, when your parents, you know, that was the end of my parenting at the age of 12. 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:06.000 I was really kind of on my own because my dad was off being a single guy, kind of, you know. 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:10.320 Um, and so my searching started almost immediately. 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:14.480 Um, I never was in any way lent towards Christianity. 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:15.919 It wasn't a part of the of what I had. 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:18.879 I was born in California, grew up in LA. 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:25.360 Um not that they don't have God there, but it just wasn't what was happening in my life. 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:26.000 Sure. 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:33.600 And um so in junior, I was seeking. 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:34.559 I was seeking. 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:47.279 And in junior high, um, there was a Buddhism that was around called Nish and Shoshu Buddhism, and they were doing a lot of recruiting, and Namyoho Ringekyo, anyway, was a big deal in the 70s. 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:51.120 Um and then in high school I was a Hare Krishna. 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:56.960 I literally went to school in Asari with the tea luck on my forehead and all that. 00:14:57.279 --> 00:14:58.240 I didn't know that about you. 00:14:58.559 --> 00:14:59.120 Yeah. 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:12.480 Um, and then later um I entered um what we would now call a cult, but it was a benign cult, you know, there was nothing terrible happened to me anyway, um, with a guru and all that. 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.960 All of the time I was looking for answers. 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:28.080 And in each situation of those three, um I got to a point, I was just wasn't feeling it, you know, what the what I thought I was supposed to feel, a connection or a sense or God entering my life. 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.320 I couldn't, I it wasn't happening for me. 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:38.720 And when I would go to the people who were in charge, you know, were the spiritual leaders of all, you know, what um I the problem was me. 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:40.799 I wasn't chanting enough. 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:49.200 It was Maya, the world, you know, and and I whatever I was doing, I just needed to do it harder or more of, you know. 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:52.399 Um, but I was doing my best, whatever that was. 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:52.799 Yeah. 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:56.399 And then so this is all before I'm 25, by the way. 00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:10.000 So at about 25, I got to the point where I just said, God, looking kind of heavenward, you know, meet me halfway, I'm done. 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:11.600 You know, you know where I am. 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:16.080 If if you, you know, if you want to hang out with me, if you want something going on with me. 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:21.600 I don't remember my exact words, but it was really like, I'm tired of putting all this effort out and not getting anything in return. 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:26.320 It wasn't that I said, you know, I'm done with God. 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:27.919 I was just done searching. 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:40.320 And um, I was in a relationship with the man who would become my husband, and we got on with life, and we moved to New York, and I really left all that spiritual seeking behind. 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:46.159 Um, I still, you know, I was into crystals and I do little meditations, you know. 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:55.679 I mean, I love the woo-woo, and and you know, and um, so there was, but I didn't think of it, yeah, it was more like personal growth than than a divine being. 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:59.519 I didn't connect with that, um, nor did I try to or wish to. 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:07.359 And um, and then life continued, and life had some very serious ups and downs. 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.440 And I'll just share very briefly that we lost our son when he was 14. 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:16.880 Um, and he was killed by a car walking across the street in

the wrong place in the wrong time. 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:20.880 Um, and he died from his injury, his head injury. 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:25.680 Um But that went on, you know, life went on. 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:30.559 I mean, I'm I'm not getting into that because that's not what we're talking about today. 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:36.400 Um, but even that wasn't enough to really anchor me into a faith tradition. 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:52.240 Although my husband was a non-practicing Jew, Danny had been bar mitzvah, and we were really grateful to have Judaism and to be able to sit Shiva and have an approach to how to how to handle this catastrophe in our life, you know. 00:17:52.640 --> 00:18:03.359 And we contemplated, um, we were still living in New York, it was right after Danny had died, and we contemplated um me converting and that we'd become like more active Jews. 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:10.559 And when we moved to Portland, we actually scouted out some some synagogues, but nothing really resonated, and that just kind of faded away. 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:16.799 So that was still a good that was 2000. 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:26.079 And um it'd be another full on 10 years or more before I would even come to something like a faith. 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:34.160 So okay, so all this life is going on, and there's some good things, and there's healing and uh, you know, recovering from bereaving, being bereaved. 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:45.279 Um, I wasn't drinking alcoholically at that time, although I certainly was drinking a lot off and on, and I always had, um, but I loved it, and I always had a good time. 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:53.519 Yeah, you know, it wasn't a problem for me, except you know, when I overindulged from time to time, but everybody I knew did that too. 00:18:53.599 --> 00:19:22.160 So anyway, um, I had started a small management, my own management consulting business, and um I was doing a lot of time in my car and driving around, you know, and out of the blue, I mean, literally out of the blue, out of nowhere, I cannot find a single thing to remember what was a catalyst for this, but I started talking to God in the car, and I didn't have an idea. 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.440 Again, it was in no way was a Christianity. 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:33.599 I mean, I was a hippie, I was a liberal, everything I grew up knowing about Christianity from you know, movies. 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.240 I mean, they just all seem like a bunch of haters, you know. 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:42.480 I mean, it's like, and you know, even today they can seem that way, depending on who you're listening to. 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.359 Um, so it never even occurred to me. 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:49.359 But just kind of lifting my eyes heavenward, because that's kind of what we do. 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:54.480 I was just, it's like, you know, God, if you're out there, remember me, here I am. 00:19:54.799 --> 00:20:03.440 Um, I would say I I prayed, I just called it God talk, but I and I was out loud, which we had Bluetooth then back in the olden days. 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:09.200 So it was like you could, you know, had thing in your era, you could talk out loud in your car and not when you're all the only person in the car and not be weird. 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:10.400 Now it's commonplace, right? 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:10.880 Right. 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:11.200 Right. 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:18.160 So um, and I just started, you know, are there books I should read? 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:20.079 If there are, bring them to me. 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:22.000 Are there people I should meet? 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:28.799 Um, you know, if there's something I should be seeing, I I'd never read the Bible, but I did say remove the scales from my eyes. 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:31.680 So it must have entered into my consciousness in some way. 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:33.599 And that's exactly what happened. 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:35.839 Um, I was doing a lot of networking. 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:43.359 Um, these two women that I met as friends, they were both Christians in a different sort of way. 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:44.799 And I was full of questions. 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:46.559 I started asking and talking about it. 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:48.640 They weren't like trying to convert me. 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:50.240 I was like, hey, what is this? 00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:51.440 You know, tell me about it. 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:53.119 I was curious, you know. 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:55.680 And it just continued to grow. 00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:03.200 And um, I started to, a friend asked me, we were in a bar, and she said, I've got something for you if you'd be willing to take it. 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:04.799 Would you take a Bible from me? 00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:08.160 Because she had was telling me something about her kid the day before. 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:10.880 And and I was like, I wish I had that kind of faith. 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:23.440 Because I'd always been envious, you know, when you see these evangelicals or people and they're talking about, I'm never alone because Jesus is always with me, or I know I can get through anything because I have Jesus, and I'm like, damn, I want that, you know, who wouldn't, right? 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:35.759 Um, so uh yeah, so it was it was it took a while for me to um find my way to it. 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:43.920 And it was also problematic in my home because although my husband is not a practicing Jew, he's a cultural Jew. 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:52.880 And he had a lot of um feelings about Christians just because of the persecution of Jews and his perspective. 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:57.440 Um I started going uh to a church. 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:07.599 Uh he he's a musician and he had a A standing gig on Sunday evenings, and he would go to his gig and I would go to the Sunday service and be back before he knew that I had been there. 00:22:07.920 -->

00:22:12.400 Um so I I didn't feel comfortable telling him about it, you know. 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:18.880 And then it just it just kind of it just started to come in more and more. 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:24.960 Um I started to get this sense of that that how can I put it? 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:25.759 I feel like I'm rambling. 00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:26.160 I'm sorry. 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:27.279 No, you're not at all. 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:28.079 Okay, no. 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:39.759 Um having uh lost my son Jewish, you know, this idea that Jesus is the only way, you know, that was a sticking point. 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:42.400 The you know, this idea that God has a plan. 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:44.799 This was all this, you know, stuff I had heard, right? 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:46.640 Just kind of in the atmosphere. 00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:47.119 Right. 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:51.200 Um, and I had not in any way spent much time in the Bible at all. 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:56.640 I couldn't get into it, whatever, you know, so um at that point. 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:04.720 Um and I just kind of it my my not objections, but my questions were kind of softened. 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:12.319 I had a friend, he was my spiritual mentor there, um, uh a pastor at the church that I started to go to. 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:16.799 And I was like, how can God be in charge of everything or have a plan for everything? 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:22.720 And my beautiful son is killed when he could have just had a broken leg or whatever, you know. 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:39.200 And he helped me break down that idea that God is at the engineer board controlling everything, you know, that um he he didn't I mean, obviously, who has answers for this entirely, you know, but he just talked a little bit more about it. 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:47.359 It allowed me to enter in soon enough to put my questions and my fears to the side that I could continue to take some steps forward. 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:53.200 And one day, one evening, I was at a service, um, a church service. 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:55.920 And the lights were sort of dimmed. 00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:08.640 And it was my friend who was giving the sermon, and um he was had this easel and a you know, a big board, and he was drawing this kind of circle, and he was talking about the cycle of spiritual formation. 00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:17.200 And he he said, So first you ask Jesus to come into your life, that authorizes the Holy Spirit to come in. 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:29.759 And that idea that I needed to take a step forward to get the good stuff, as it were, you know, that I had to say yes in some way was to me revolutionary. 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:33.200 You know, I had never really, I was kept like, well, when am I gonna get it? 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:34.079 When am I get it? 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:40.000 But you know, it's sort of like you're never gonna know how delicious that ice cream is unless you take a

bite, right? 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.440 You know, I mean you've gotta lift your spoon up to your mouth. 00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:59.759 And so there in that service, I'm we were standing, I think we might have been singing, um, and I was by myself, and I'm wrestling in my mind about all this, and I'm you know, so Jesus, you know, like what about all the Buddhists? 00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:01.839 And what about the Hindus? 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:03.519 And what about the Jews? 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:04.640 What about Danny? 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:07.119 What about all those, what about all those other people? 00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:09.440 You know, how do they fit into all of this? 00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:11.920 Billions and billions of people. 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:19.200 And I didn't hear him speak it, but the message that I very clearly got was let's just put a pin in that. 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.519 Why don't we just focus on you and me right now? 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:27.519 And that was enough for me to just let all of that anxiety about what if, what if, what if. 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:33.200 Because if God was okay with it, and I get I don't whatever that was all then. 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:38.400 Um, and so I just in that moment, quietly to myself, I just said yes. 00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:39.359 That's all I did. 00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:40.799 I just said yes. 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:46.000 And um, and then it just that was the beginning of it for me. 00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:46.799 Yeah. 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.519 Thank you so much for sharing. 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:53.920 Now you should write a book that is amazing. 00:25:54.079 --> 00:26:01.680 And the fact that you started so young on were you kind of like pressured into that spiritual journey as not at all. 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:05.519 Okay, so you know to go through that weirdo. 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:14.880 Okay, okay, no, and and I, you know, the honesty of hey, I'm not getting anything, I'm not feeling anything. 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:17.119 Like, if you want me, come and get me. 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:17.759 Yeah. 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:27.759 And I mean, I just love that because I think there's so much fear involved in spirituality, and it's because we think that we're being judged. 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:34.160 And and it's like, to me, I it's all for me personally, it's about relationship. 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:40.720 And you mentioned that so beautifully is that we have to make a step forward. 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:45.519 Yeah, we have to invite it in, and whatever that means to you. 00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:57.759 Well, and that's what's so beautiful, even you know, and it it overlaps perfectly with the 12 steps in AA, because the third step is that you make a decision. 00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:00.400 Yeah, you come to believe. 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:17.440 And um, God doesn't, you know, I think that the other thing that can be such a stumbling block is that there's so many people around, and there's so much been written in all faiths um that tell you what it's supposed to look like. 00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:17.839 Right. 00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:25.440 What God looks like, and what that relationship and the and this is this is the way, do it this way, this is the right way, you know. 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:30.240 And I don't know that anybody can do that for anybody. 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:36.960 You know, why why does one person leave is led to, you know, as you know, I I lived in Morocco for five years. 00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:42.480 Um, after I became a a believer, and for a long time I didn't want even want to say that I was a Christian. 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:44.640 I'd be I'm a Christian, but not like that, you know. 00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:48.160 I'm a follower of Jesus, but that sounded so sanctimonious, you know. 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:50.880 I struggle with that too. 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:52.079 You know, it's like, what do we say? 00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:53.200 I love Jesus. 00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:54.160 Okay, there you go. 00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:55.440 That's a good one. 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:08.319 But I knew people there, I got to have friends there who were um beautiful human beings, devout, faithful women who prayed to Allah. 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:09.680 Does that not count? 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.200 You know, so but thankfully I don't have to have a judgment about that. 00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:14.480 Right, right. 00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:16.559 No, that's so true. 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:22.319 Yeah, and I loved how you bridged the the AA and the step work. 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:26.799 Did you want to add anything else on in that Morocco trip? 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:28.799 Not really, no, we don't have to do that. 00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:30.000 Well, next next episode. 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:30.400 Okay. 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:40.880 So so yeah, I wanted to first off, I want to read off the steps just to give the listeners just some context. 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:41.359 Sure. 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:45.359 Because, you know, they may not be there. 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:49.599 Yeah, I mean, I'm I feel blessed that I do know it. 00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:53.119 So I'm gonna read off the 12 steps. 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:59.920 Number one, we admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable. 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:05.200 Number two, came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:13.039 Number three, made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him. 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:18.240 Four, made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:25.279 Five, admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. 00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:32.160 Six, we were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:36.160 Seven, humbly ask him to remove our shortcomings. 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:44.079 Eight, made a list of all people, all persons we have harmed and become willing to make amends to them all. 00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:52.720 Nine, made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except to do so would injure them or others. 00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:53.440 10. 00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:59.039 Continue to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it. 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:12.319 11 sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood him, praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. 00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:25.839 12 having a having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in our affairs. 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:27.599 It's a lot. 00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:29.759 It's a mouthful, it's heavy. 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:34.000 But you know, we we dove into this. 00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:49.200 So to me, um the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, which is how I got sober and stayed so stay sober, stay in recovery. 00:30:49.599 --> 00:31:02.720 Um it's it's all about these 12 steps because drinking is just a symptom of our let's call it our spiritual disease. 00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:17.680 Um and um the program of AA takes you, you know, it allowed me to um clean house, stop drinking, which leveled a playing field, you know. 00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:21.200 Finally, you know, I wasn't doing all the things that were keeping me from that. 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:31.119 But that's just for me anyway, and you know, I know that there are people who've been able to get sober and maintain a happy sobriety, a healthy sobriety without AA. 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.359 And I wish, I mean, that's wonderful. 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:37.039 But I was led to AA, and that's what worked for me. 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:52.160 I actually had tried to moderate my drinking in the past, you know, but I just was I'm a real alcoholic, and for a real alcoholic like me, I needed something that would, you know, it's it's like a high colonic for your psych, you know, to be an AA. 00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:59.279 So um, yeah, those steps are just so important, and they're they really are a new way of living. 00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:03.359 And um, I'm not sure where you want to go with talking about that. 00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:06.079 Yeah, no, I mean you said it's a new way of living. 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:23.119 Like I felt like I finally got guidance on how to approach life with a lot of forgiveness and a lot of mercy and with tolerance. 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:27.759 And I felt like it was a protocol, like a life protocol. 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:37.279 And to me, I just I see how it's changed, you know, doing the step work, how it's changed my all of my relationships. 00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:49.680 It's changed my perspective, it's opened the door to more miracles in my life and more blessings. 00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:55.279 And I'm just like, oh my gosh, like I'm so grateful that I couldn't drink like a normal person. 00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:59.359 And that I, yeah, I'm just so grateful for it. 00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:02.559 It's I mean glad that you were an alcoholic. 00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:04.960 I mean, what what a gift. 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:05.839 Thank you. 00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:08.960 Because now I'm not ingesting poison in my body. 00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:19.680 And also I think that man, I just I just wish people had more like access to this in a way. 00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:20.559 Sure. 00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:24.640 And more community, because that's a huge part of AA. 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:33.200 And and I've been, I'm a part of a a sober community that's online, and that one is is like mind, body, soul. 00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:41.680 And you know, the the two people that that lead that that created that community are are also sober. 00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:46.319 One went through the program, and then the other one is a health coach. 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:48.480 So she quit drinking from a health perspective. 00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:52.799 And so yeah, I've I feel like I needed all things. 00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:59.200 And yeah, I just like the step work though, forever changed my life. 00:33:59.279 --> 00:33:59.599 Yeah. 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:12.559 And I wanted just to share more on that and kind of lift the veil on some of these steps to be more specific on how it changed my life. 00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:21.360 And for me, I think the step four making made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:29.440 And so when we met, we were kind of your your way of sponsoring somebody, it's like fast and furious. 00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:34.400 Let's get through the steps, but it has to be thorough and we have to dedicate time. 00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:40.320 And luckily, we were able to do it in person and and spend that time together. 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:50.079 And I think for for me, I had so many resentments in my life and some that I didn't even know until I was asked to write it down. 00:34:51.039 --> 00:35:04.079 And a part of that process is to write, you know, the cause, the harm, um, how it affected me, like personally, whether it's like relationship-wise or financially. 00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:10.079 And then the last part was identifying your part that you played in it. 00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:16.000 And that to me was challenging for some. 00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:21.679 Like, you know, with the suicide and my mom, like that's that was hard to chew on. 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:39.679 And and luckily talking it to you about it, it just I felt so blessed and so lucky to have you through that process and and to go through all of those feelings that are attached to something that that

our society is like no one talks about it. 00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:43.760 And it's like the it's it's a huge problem in our society. 00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.039 Um, our children are dying. 00:35:47.519 --> 00:36:01.840 And yeah, that's a whole nother topic, but but yeah, seeing my part and how how I viewed this resentment was life-changing for me. 00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:10.960 So one thing I I want to, you know, the the thing about AA and these 12 steps is that it's a spiritual program of recovery. 00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:31.840 It is not a boot camp where it's all about, I mean, we have work that we need to do, um, but uh so much of what we're doing is clearing the way for our higher power to come in and be that life-sustaining force. 00:36:32.079 --> 00:37:05.199 Um when you talk about your part, not so much that you I mean, what and it gets too I think too complicated to try to touch base on entirely in a you know in the time that we have today, but um when when anger, resentment, fear, or dishonesty rule our lives, and that can manifest like so you didn't have any role to play in your mom taking her life. 00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:08.960 You know, that was not in any way you had a part in that. 00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:26.000 But it's when we're holding on to a resentment and we're just we're required to kind of step back and look at it, it doesn't mean that we lose our grief, that we don't mourn the loss of someone beloved, that we can't um hate the fact that it happened, right? 00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:27.039 All those things. 00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:35.119 Um but but a resentment requires us to carry it around with us all the time, even if we're not aware of it, you know. 00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:41.280 As I've said this, but it's like getting used to walking around the little pieces of glass in your shoe all the time. 00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:43.679 You just think that's how it's supposed to feel, you know. 00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:55.599 We don't even like you said, it wasn't even until you started to think about it that you realized that you were you had amassed all of this emotional toxic stuff that was a part of your everyday psyche. 00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:01.519 So this all sounds kind of simplistic when we talk about it this way, because as you said, you know, you did hard work. 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.760 And remember, there's 12 steps. 00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:27.519 So, you know, and and I think that the gift of being an alcoholic, of being brought to our knees is that that for some people, like you and me, it wasn't until we were entirely humbled when we had we our our intelligence, our capabilities, you know, we're both very capable women, you know. 00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:35.599 Um our our good life, all the good things that we have going on for us, we had a problem we could not overcome on our own. 00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.119 And we, you know, I had reached out to other other ways to do it. 00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:43.920 I tried to moderate it myself, and more and more, and I was a very high-functioning drunk. 00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:47.360 I mean, I had a great job, I, you know, things were good. 00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:48.639 All was good. 00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:51.679 Um, and nobody in my life thought that I was an alcoholic. 00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:53.199 That's how functioning I was. 00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:58.239 But the misery, the desperation was happening in my head, in my heart, you know. 00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:04.239 Um, but these steps in such a gentle way, and it's true, we can move fast. 00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:12.719 I've also been sometimes I work with somebody, you know, and and we slow it way down because there's just too much there to go too fast, you know. 00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:13.360 Sure. 00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:15.199 But they build on each other. 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:23.920 And the so the first three steps, you know, yes, I'm a drunk, maybe there's a higher power that can do something about it. 00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:29.440 Um, I guess I'll, you know, I'll I'll turn my will and my life over to the God of my understanding. 00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:30.079 And you do that. 00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:30.639 I did that. 00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:31.840 I'm like, yeah, whatever. 00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:34.239 You know, I just want to not be in pain anymore. 00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:34.719 Yeah. 00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:40.320 Um, and then you just jump right into the work, and they say that faith without works is dead. 00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:46.320 And you find that in a lot of traditions, including Christian, be doers of the word, not just hearers. 00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:46.800 Right. 00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:54.960 You know, so yeah, it lays a foundation that I mean, I just I was at a meeting before I came here, and it was just so beautiful. 00:39:55.119 --> 00:40:10.000 I mean, there's people who have decades of sobriety and um and talk about even today how these steps and this fellowship and this way of living help them to live happier lives where they're not torn up inside. 00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:14.559 I mean, these days, you know, our world, our country is in turmoil. 00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:16.800 Yeah, how do you find a balance with that? 00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:21.840 You know, and these steps have allowed me to find a way and I don't have to drink over it. 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:23.599 Yeah, uh, so beautifully. 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:26.000 Yeah, no, amen to that. 00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:43.440 And I think what I love about this approach is that, you know, you can take time and and write your resentments down, but I love that we are asked to do it with somebody and to release it in a way and read it and share it. 00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:44.719 And something happens. 00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:45.360 That's right. 00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:49.920 Something happens to your heart, something it just is way less heavy. 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:51.440 It's like lifted from you.

00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:55.280 Like it is because you've also shared it with God. 00:40:55.519 --> 00:40:55.760 Yeah. 00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:56.159 Right. 00:40:56.320 --> 00:41:03.599 Even though they're, you know, and and many people have no idea who God may be. 00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:07.840 You know, they may have the God of their childhood and they've completely rejected that. 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:18.800 They don't want any part of whatever that tradition was that for them perhaps was toxic or even traumatic, you know, um, the faith traditions that they grew up in. 00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:24.239 And so they're finding their way back, and that's fine. 00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:29.360 You know, it doesn't, it doesn't have to be focused in one particular way or another, you know. 00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:32.960 You God doesn't have an identity crisis. 00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:35.760 I don't think God is waiting for us to say the words just right. 00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:36.079 Right. 00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:37.119 You know, now you get it. 00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:37.440 Right. 00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:38.559 Okay, come on in. 00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:39.599 Right. 00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:40.079 Yeah. 00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:40.480 Yeah. 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:43.199 No, it's no, that's such a good point. 00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:50.400 And I think what really helped me too was the listing all the persons I've harmed. 00:41:51.840 --> 00:42:05.920 And when I tell you when I wrote apologies to people that I knew, like if I apologize to them, it's not they're they're gonna know that it's not like a selfish act that I'm just like trying to relieve myself only. 00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:18.000 And so that practice and me having a conversation with my father and my siblings, I was the oldest child and I beat them up a lot as a kid. 00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:21.039 And I was I was carrying that. 00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:34.079 And to have the opportunity to write that out and be guided with with God and with fellows and sponsors and to apologize. 00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:37.119 It was like a newfound drug. 00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:48.239 I was like, whoa, the feeling after, like, of course, like right before I wanted to puke, I was sweating, like all those things that you get right before you take that aligned action. 00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:50.239 But then the release of that all. 00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:51.760 Oh my gosh. 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:54.320 And you know, I had the same thing. 00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:59.119 I was a mean older sister, and um, I beat up my little brother a lot. 00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:08.559 And it it wasn't until I got sober that I even became aware that that was a harm that I had done. 00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:25.760 You know, I mean, I had always justified it that, you know, I would say that, you know, we had our dad was gone, our mom was a wreck and a drunk, and we were my analogy was we were like two wet cats in a bag together, as if there was no nothing else that could have been done but that, you know. 00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:38.480 But then just wanting to, you know, it's just it's just a way of taking responsibility for actions because until we do, we don't even realize it, but we're carrying that around with us. 00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:40.320 It's like a chain around our ankle. 00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:41.199 We don't even know. 00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:41.440 Yeah. 00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:44.320 And I I I was living in Morocco at the time. 00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:49.840 Um, and I wrote to my little brother, um, who's, you know, old. 00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:58.400 And I just, you know, I just said, I know, at a time when you needed a big sister and somebody to take care of you, I was the opposite of that. 00:43:58.559 --> 00:43:59.440 And I really regret. 00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:01.280 Explain myself. 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:02.559 I didn't rationalize. 00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:04.239 I just said, I'm just sorry. 00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:07.760 I'm really sorry that I couldn't be there for you and I wasn't more loving. 00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:11.039 And he responded back to me immediately. 00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:15.280 And I mean, we're not close, but there's no hostility between us, you know. 00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:18.639 And it's just what a lift that is to have all of that. 00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:25.519 And it's just, it's very um, it's mystical what happens. 00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:27.039 I mean, these steps are concrete. 00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:28.559 You just read them on paper. 00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:29.840 It sounds like, yeah. 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:37.280 And and coming from, you know, people who are listening who've never heard it before, it can sound like, what, you know, and I can appreciate that. 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:42.000 Um, and that's why it's always good that you do these steps with a sponsor. 00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:47.920 I I I make it like like a Sherpa on a journey, somebody who knows the path and can walk alongside you. 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:48.239 Yes. 00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:53.840 They're not they're not on the pilgrimage for you, they're just helping, you know, as you go along. 00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:59.679 And um, and they deepen, you know, and you use them for a lifetime, you know. 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:02.400 I haven't thrown any of those spiritual tools away. 00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:05.440 I use them all the time, my goodness, regularly. 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:06.079 Yeah. 00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:08.400 And and that's the thing, that's a part of the program. 00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:15.679 It's like now I know how to deal with resentments and I can sense when one is about to happen. 00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:26.159 And, you know, I have you, I've I've called you several times and just be like, hey, I'm struggling with something and I need like to release it, and I can't find my part. 00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:30.159 I can't see where how I deserved this, right? 00:45:30.320 -->

00:45:30.800 Right. 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:36.880 And it's just, yeah, it's it's and it's and and who's to say you did deserve it? 00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:38.800 That's not that's not the language, is it? 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:39.039 Right. 00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:41.119 No, I mean, who deserves bad times? 00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:49.119 You didn't deserve it, but at the same time, life on life's terms is a strong AA sentiment, right? 00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:51.360 You know, I mean, here it is. 00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:54.239 So how we respond to it is everything, right? 00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:55.599 And how you see it. 00:45:55.760 --> 00:46:01.280 I mean, I love in the in in it in the big book, they say that, you know, this is a spiritually sick person. 00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:04.639 Like, please help me not be angry at women. 00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:17.840 Yeah, when some yeah, when somebody has, you know, I mean, and for people who have been terribly harmed, you know, um, there has to be just a lot of gentleness and grace with that, you know. 00:46:18.159 --> 00:46:38.880 I mean, and sometimes when we get to that part of like my part, sometimes it can just be, especially if it's many years in the past, you know, kind of just assessing that this is in the past and I can have all kinds of feelings about it, but do would I like it to not have a grip on me in the same way? 00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:40.639 So then they give us tools. 00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:42.000 Oh my gosh, yeah. 00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:50.639 And a big part of and we'll we'll wrap this up quick, but I think a big part for me is like I allowed this type of behavior. 00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:56.719 Like I I handed people over the keys to my heart, and I had no boundaries. 00:46:56.960 --> 00:46:58.320 And that's my part. 00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:00.719 Like, I allowed this to happen, right? 00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:08.239 And and you know, people we we think that people can read our minds, even like our partners, and it's like we don't have that power, yeah. 00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:19.440 And so yeah, this this the steps just but and you know, another big one, of course, is fear, yeah, another part of the fourth step, right? 00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:30.480 And the whole thing about this way of living is that we've decided somebody else gets to be in charge of our life. 00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:39.519 God, the God of your understanding, the higher power of your understanding, and people you know come to that in a variety of different ways. 00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:44.320 But when my self-will isn't the thing that's driving me forward every day. 00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:49.760 I mean, believe me, it is, but I check myself, you know, and I try to realign it, you know. 00:47:50.239 --> 00:48:00.159 Um, I was I fell victim to so, I mean, I was beating myself about it, but I was I had a credit card scam happen to me and it gripped recently. 00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:03.280 Um and I called my sponsor because I was freaking out. 00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:14.320 And what I was mostly afraid about was um not so much the money, but telling my husband that I, you know, and she helped me, and then I did the next right thing. 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:21.840 And I'm happy to say that my bank supported that I was the victim of impersonation fraud and they credited me back the money and all that. 00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:32.480 But I was in, you know, at the moment that it happened, I was at a at the symphony and I was wedging out, you know, and I just started praying, help me, help me, help me. 00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:34.639 You know, it's nothing specific, just like, yeah. 00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:37.840 And I got advice, I got leading, you know. 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:41.840 I mean, spirituality is often shows up in really concrete ways, you know. 00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:48.480 And by the time my husband came home and I told him about it, it already had these answers because I had been led to the right steps to do. 00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:50.639 And he was like, Babe, how could you be so dumb? 00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:51.760 And I said, I don't know. 00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:53.760 And that was the end of it, you know. 00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:59.119 Yeah, no, I mean, that's the thing, life just continues to happen. 00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:06.400 Yeah, and this program and the steps just helped me learn how to be tolerant. 00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:06.960 Yeah. 00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:10.960 And I'm constantly reminded that I am not in control. 00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:11.599 Right. 00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:12.800 And I don't want to be. 00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:14.000 No, no. 00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:16.800 Well, and you know, and and and that there's help. 00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:24.079 I mean, I I I am lucky enough that I have not struggled with sobriety. 00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:26.960 It, you know, it was really just kind of graced to me. 00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:28.480 Yeah, I did the work. 00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:34.559 Um, and um, but the desire to drink was really profoundly lifted from me. 00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:41.840 Um, I'll just share briefly, I don't know if we're running out of time, but um that that the second wave for me was my eating disorder. 00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:47.840 And that, I mean, I was sober, but my eating disorder came into my life like a hurricane. 00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:55.760 And it was later and with 12-step program um that used the big book and only the big book. 00:49:55.840 --> 00:49:57.679 It didn't use any additional literature. 00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:01.360 And so I kind of second, in fact, that's when my for the eating disorder. 00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:04.079 For the eating disorder, yeah, my compulsive overeating. 00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:06.480 Um, and that was lifted from me. 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:14.480 But that's when I did like the deeper dive about making an amends to my brother and a few other things that I hadn't, you know, they weren't so front and center, you know. 00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:22.239 Um but that it just keeps uh I'm not afraid that I'm gonna drink now. 00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:38.880 I mean, I've just found a way of living that it's the same thing of like when you make decisions to maybe uh move more or eat better or love better people, you know, if you've been loving people or have people in your life that aren't good for you or whatever it is, you know. 00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:43.519 I mean, it's just it's just the way I live now and it's so interwoven. 00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:45.119 And you're finding that too, aren't you? 00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:47.199 Even just two years in and yeah, yeah. 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:48.559 It'll be three years in May. 00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:49.760 Right, yeah, yeah. 00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:55.280 And it just becomes, you know, I don't have to consciously say, well, I'm you know, I'm doing step work. 00:50:55.440 --> 00:51:04.960 I just naturally am because my go-to is to, you know, I only indulge my nonsense for so long before I pull myself up and go, okay, girl, let's fly right here. 00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:06.480 Right, right. 00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:17.280 Well, I'm so grateful that you had had the time and the vulnerability, and I just really appreciate it. 00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:22.159 And hopefully we can continue this conversation. 00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:23.360 I'm here for you. 00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:28.079 I love being here with you and talking about the stuff is not hard for me. 00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:38.480 And, you know, I mean, to the extent that it can help somebody who's hearing either in their in their halting walk with God or or even thinking, is there a room for that? 00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:51.519 Or maybe they're struggling with an eating disorder or drinking or drugs or whatever it may be, you know, that that there's help out there, and you know, that's all we want to do is just, you know, people don't have to walk alone. 00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:52.880 Right, exactly. 00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:53.679 Exactly. 00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:57.679 Well, on that note, on that note, uh, thank you all. 00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:08.559 If you guys have continued to listen, we love you, and uh, we just um pray so much peace and miracles to unfold in your life, and we will see you next time.