النص الكامل لحلقة S9 "Evil By Design" E6: 'Peter Says Hi'

2006. He spent the 72 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:35.819 next two years working in the HR department. It didn't 73 00:04:35.860 --> 00:04:38.540 take long before he realized there was a problem. 74 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:44.420 I think it was the turnover that happened with some 75 00:04:44.459 --> 00:04:48.100 of the travel coordinators. They would just leave the office 76 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:51.199 one day and then just not come back. Just completely 77 00:04:51.250 --> 00:04:53.970 drop off the face of the earth. Then I started 78 00:04:54.029 --> 00:04:59.579 hearing stories about his management style. when things really started 79 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:02.509 to get revealed was when I started traveling to the 80 00:05:03.069 --> 00:05:06.730 world headquarters in New York. And then that's when I 81 00:05:07.149 --> 00:05:12.519 experienced firsthand the screaming, the yelling, the verbal abuse. And 82 00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:14.759 then that's when I really started to think, okay, what 83 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:15.420 am I doing here? 84 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:20.860 What about on the sexual harassment side of things or 85 00:05:20.939 --> 00:05:24.209 just sexually inappropriate behavior? Was there stuff in that category? 86 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:29.839 Sure. I mean, there's the incident that I witnessed that 87 00:05:29.860 --> 00:05:32.779 I talked about in the original doc about the woman 88 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:36.699 whose breasts he exposed to me and put his hand 89 00:05:36.750 --> 00:05:38.069 down her pants into her crotch. 90 00:05:39.949 --> 00:05:42.550 Dana told us that Nygaard said he'd been taking care 91 00:05:42.569 --> 00:05:44.290 of this woman since she was 17 years old. 92 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:50.319 There was a woman in particular, who I won't name, 93 00:05:50.740 --> 00:05:54.560 who worked in marketing and events. And she literally quit 94 00:05:54.860 --> 00:05:57.500 because she was going to be sent back to the Bahamas. 95 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.740 And she just couldn't do it because he just stalked 96 00:06:00.779 --> 00:06:05.170 her and just did all kinds of things to her. 97 00:06:06.449 --> 00:06:09.970 So there's, yeah, there's a lot there, Timothy. I could 98 00:06:10.009 --> 00:06:10.290 go on. 99 00:06:13.810 --> 00:06:15.649 But well before any of this could make it to 100 00:06:15.810 --> 00:06:20.250 air in 2010, Peter Nygaard would launch his first legal assault. 101 00:06:22.029 --> 00:06:25.170 Post Me Too, many of you will be familiar with NDAs, 102 00:06:25.389 --> 00:06:31.000 or non-disclosure agreements. They're gagging clauses in employment contracts, exit documents, 103 00:06:31.220 --> 00:06:35.220 or settlement agreements. NDAs were a key tool used by 104 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:39.519 Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and former Fox News chairman Roger 105 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:43.350 Ailes to shield their predatory and illegal behavior from the public. 106 00:06:44.930 --> 00:06:48.060 When he started working for Nygaard, Dana Neal signed the 107 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:52.540 same kind of confidentiality agreement. So years later, when we 108 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:56.560 were first investigating Nygaard, his lawyers threatened in a suit. 109 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:01.000 If Dana talked, he and the CBC would pay. 110 00:07:01.019 --> 00:07:08.089 I knew it would be a ride. I knew he 111 00:07:08.149 --> 00:07:11.410 loved to sue and he loved to litigate and We 112 00:07:11.449 --> 00:07:13.949 were talking. It sounded like you guys were prepared for 113 00:07:13.990 --> 00:07:16.449 that too. I just felt like I didn't have a choice. 114 00:07:17.050 --> 00:07:20.449 Like I had to do it. And confidentiality was irrelevant 115 00:07:20.790 --> 00:07:23.970 because when people are being put in harm's way and 116 00:07:24.009 --> 00:07:27.170 when harm is being done, I mean, there's not a 117 00:07:27.189 --> 00:07:30.939 confidentiality agreement in the world that should be applicable in 118 00:07:30.980 --> 00:07:31.759 those situations. 119 00:07:34.220 --> 00:07:37.439 That lawsuit would be our first legal battle with Peter Nygaard, 120 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:41.769 his first overt attempt to shut us down. but it 121 00:07:41.810 --> 00:07:52.829 wouldn't be the last. It's a sunny afternoon in June 122 00:07:53.410 --> 00:07:55.310 and my family van is being lifted up on a 123 00:07:55.370 --> 00:07:59.470 hoist in a commercial garage in Winnipeg. Two men begin 124 00:07:59.529 --> 00:08:06.389 searching the undercarriage for a GPS tracking device. Again, this 125 00:08:06.449 --> 00:08:09.649 might sound paranoid, but a strange pattern had emerged in 126 00:08:09.689 --> 00:08:14.399 our investigation. as I contacted or met with sources, usually 127 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:19.189 former Nygaard employees. Shortly after, we would receive emails supposedly 128 00:08:19.250 --> 00:08:22.610 from them, recanting much of what they'd told us about Nygaard, 129 00:08:23.110 --> 00:08:26.389 and instead praising their former boss and his business acumen. 130 00:08:27.629 --> 00:08:30.930 These emails all had the same style, and we suspected 131 00:08:30.949 --> 00:08:36.639 they'd been written by the same person. Then the original whistleblowers, 132 00:08:36.820 --> 00:08:40.299 Dana Neal, and his colleague in HR at Nygaard, Pat Prowse, 133 00:08:40.750 --> 00:08:42.480 experienced something strange. 134 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:48.600 Things got really weird. Middle of the night, somebody is 135 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:51.639 trying to smash their way in through the front door 136 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:56.820 and their shoulder is hitting the doorbell. Incidentally, they broke 137 00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:59.340 it and I still haven't fixed it. And so I 138 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:02.480 went out the patio door in the backyard and I 139 00:09:02.539 --> 00:09:05.559 had a bat and I went around the side of 140 00:09:05.600 -->

00:09:08.440 the house and I just pointed it at him and 141 00:09:08.460 --> 00:09:13.240 then just gestured for him like, Get lost. And then 142 00:09:13.409 --> 00:09:17.120 he asked me, do you know Peter Nygaard? And then 143 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:20.000 I was just dumbfounded. I was just struck. And then 144 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:23.840 he just jumped off the steps and ran away. And 145 00:09:23.980 --> 00:09:29.179 that happened after Pat got jumped when he was going 146 00:09:29.299 --> 00:09:33.360 home from having some drinks with some friends. And yeah, 147 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:36.580 he got jumped. And before they ran away, one of 148 00:09:36.620 --> 00:09:38.679 them said to him, Peter says hi. 149 00:09:43.779 --> 00:09:46.240 On more than one occasion, I had to remind myself 150 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:50.059 of that expression. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they 151 00:09:50.100 --> 00:09:54.100 aren't after you. Nygaard's people always seemed to know what 152 00:09:54.139 --> 00:09:58.100 we were going to do before we did it. While 153 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:00.820 we didn't find anything on my vehicle, one day I 154 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.340 got a clue that might explain some of the coincidences. 155 00:10:04.460 --> 00:10:06.379 I was having a phone meeting with colleagues about the 156 00:10:06.419 --> 00:10:09.919 Nygaard story when I was put on hold. After about 157 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:12.759 five minutes, a computerized voice came on and asked if 158 00:10:12.820 --> 00:10:16.039 I wanted to keep recording the call. The strange part, 159 00:10:16.539 --> 00:10:19.080 neither I nor anyone else on the call was recording. 160 00:10:20.460 --> 00:10:23.879 Was someone tapping my cell phone? I'll never know for sure. 161 00:10:24.779 --> 00:10:28.090 But I'll also never forget that ominous voice saying someone 162 00:10:28.370 --> 00:10:37.470 was listening in. The next phase of our investigation involved 163 00:10:37.570 --> 00:10:40.929 going to the Bahamas. The CBC didn't want me traveling 164 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:44.360 there without support. So we found someone with deep connections 165 00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:45.399 on the island to help. 166 00:10:47.779 --> 00:10:51.799 Well, I was an FBI agent for 30 years. I 167 00:10:51.870 --> 00:10:54.190 always told people they could write a book about me. 168 00:10:54.210 --> 00:10:58.370 A lot of exciting cases. Worked undercover for two, three years. 169 00:10:59.230 --> 00:11:04.509 Caught a lot of fugitives. Was in one shootout, got shot. 170 00:11:06.710 --> 00:11:09.990 Jerry Forrester is retired from the FBI now and working 171 00:11:10.029 --> 00:11:13.929 as a private investigator specializing in the Caribbean. He's tall, 172 00:11:14.350 --> 00:11:17.730 with bright white hair and a Magnum PI mustache to match. 173 00:11:19.350 --> 00:11:23.269 So I worked the Bahamas. I worked Bermuda, Turks and Caicos. 174 00:11:23.669 --> 00:11:27.419 I worked Cayman Islands. So I was continually traveling. And 175 00:11:27.460 --> 00:11:32.779 I had a caseload of probably 100, 150 cases a month. 176 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:33.940 Wow. 177 00:11:34.659 --> 00:11:35.480 A little difficult. 178 00:11:35.899 --> 00:11:38.620 I can imagine you were busy, but also I can 179 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:41.080 also imagine that's a pretty great job to have with 180 00:11:41.100 --> 00:11:41.720 the FBI. 181 00:11:43.059 --> 00:11:45.120 It was the best job in the FBI. If I 182 00:11:45.539 --> 00:11:47.230 wasn't mandatory, I'd still be there. 183 00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:51.539 He was already well acquainted with Peter Nygaard before we 184 00:11:51.580 --> 00:11:54.679 hired him in 2010. 185 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:56.799 I met him when he wanted to see me. I 186 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:02.440 went down to his house after I retired. And, of course, 187 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:04.559 I knew a little bit about him, so I brought 188 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:08.799 my assistant with me. As a witness, if anything did occur, 189 00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:11.980 I'm not saying anything would have occurred. So we had 190 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:13.580 a nice dinner and talked a little bit, and he 191 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:15.860 wanted to hire me. And I said, no, I can't 192 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:17.000 do that. I already have a job. 193 00:12:18.419 --> 00:12:19.440 What did he want to hire you for? 194 00:12:20.580 --> 00:12:21.879 I guess I was head of the security. 195 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:22.980 I guess. 196 00:12:23.059 --> 00:12:25.259 I don't know. I didn't even entertain him. It wasn't 197 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:27.580 even on my mind. He could have paid me a 198 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:29.960 million dollars a year. I wouldn't have taken him. 199 00:12:30.419 --> 00:12:30.879 Why is that? 200 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:32.659 Well, his reputation. 201 00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:38.340 Jerry met me at the airport in the Bahamas. Over 202 00:12:38.379 --> 00:12:41.519 the next several days, we scoured the main island, meeting 203 00:12:41.620 --> 00:12:45.539 and talking to as many people as we could. Eventually, 204 00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:47.860 my reporting colleague, Bob McEwen, joined me. 205 00:12:50.860 --> 00:12:54.320 It was the most tempestuous story I've ever done. 206 00:12:55.759 --> 00:12:58.120 That's saying something. I know you've worked on a few stories. 207 00:12:58.820 --> 00:13:01.220 Yeah, and I was thinking also about this. Is it 208 00:13:01.259 --> 00:13:04.639 the one that's lasted longest? Because it started in the 209 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:07.080 middle of 2009, and here we are in the middle 210 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:09.179 of 2020. 211 00:13:10.379 --> 00:13:13.230 Bob has traveled the world as a journalist, with the CBC, 212 00:13:13.590 --> 00:13:15.990 then as a correspondent for CBS News, where he covered 213 00:13:16.009 --> 00:13:18.950 the first Gulf War, and eventually as a host for 214

00:13:19.090 --> 00:13:23.419 NBC's Dateline. In 2002, he came back home to Canada 215 00:13:23.899 --> 00:13:27.340 to return as co-host for the CBC's investigative TV show, 216 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:28.580 The Fifth Estate. 217 00:13:30.620 --> 00:13:34.220 The story of Peter Nygaard has been the most intense 218 00:13:35.019 --> 00:13:39.690 story I've been involved with and, unusually, more and more 219 00:13:39.870 --> 00:13:43.929 intense and pressurized as it's gone along. So I think 220 00:13:43.970 --> 00:13:47.789 the past year has been... We've been under more pressure 221 00:13:47.870 --> 00:13:50.470 on this story than any other time in its gestation. 222 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:55.379 And as we continued to dig, one name in particular 223 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:56.360 kept coming up. 224 00:13:57.539 --> 00:13:58.039 Maribel. 225 00:13:59.769 --> 00:14:04.889 She had been one of the, quote, packages, unquote, invited 226 00:14:05.590 --> 00:14:09.690 to Nygaard Key, his house in the Bahamas, for what 227 00:14:09.710 --> 00:14:14.539 he called pamper parties. And she had been controversial because 228 00:14:14.580 --> 00:14:18.000 we were told by a number of people that at 229 00:14:18.139 --> 00:14:22.309 some point when she was there, she had... an episode 230 00:14:22.529 --> 00:14:26.909 of some sort. She was emotional. She was frightened. She 231 00:14:26.950 --> 00:14:29.009 was looking for people to help her. She wanted to 232 00:14:29.049 --> 00:14:32.429 go home, which was in the Dominican Republic. There was 233 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:37.580 some debate about whether she was 16 or 17. At 234 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:39.940 that point, we wanted to try to find her. This 235 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:43.679 was several years later, because she was an example of 236 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:46.830 what people said happened, that young girls got lured to 237 00:14:46.950 --> 00:14:52.090 Peter Nygaard's estate, and... Some of them may have been 238 00:14:52.190 --> 00:14:53.669 sexually abused. 239 00:14:57.450 --> 00:15:00.700 We tried for months to find Maribel. But the Dominican 240 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:04.120 Republic had a population of almost 10 million people. And 241 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:07.820 even her full name was just too common. We finally 242 00:15:07.899 --> 00:15:10.480 reached out to Peter Nygaard's lawyers and asked about her. 243 00:15:11.340 --> 00:15:15.860 That's when something strange happened. I got an alert. A 244 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:18.370 few days after we sent that letter... we found out 245 00:15:18.409 --> 00:15:21.409 that Peter Nygaard's private plane had taken off, and it 246 00:15:21.450 --> 00:15:26.529 was headed to, where else? The Dominican Republic. We knew 247 00:15:26.570 --> 00:15:29.330 this because when someone owns a private airplane registered with 248 00:15:29.370 --> 00:15:32.480 the FAA, they have to file a flight plan every 249 00:15:32.500 --> 00:15:35.200 time they travel. And if you know where to look, 250 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:39.419 those flight plans are public. We were going to need 251 00:15:39.460 --> 00:15:42.220 someone on the ground quickly, and I knew just who 252 00:15:42.259 --> 00:15:42.620 to call. 253 00:15:44.379 --> 00:15:47.370 You called me. Then you asked me if I could 254 00:15:47.409 --> 00:15:51.700 get somebody to get to that plane and do a 255 00:15:51.740 --> 00:15:55.019 little surveillance on who's on it and what is occurring. 256 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:02.460 If I remember right, the plane landed. My investigators were there. 257 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:06.389 The plane sat there for quite a while with a 258 00:16:06.409 --> 00:16:11.350 lady standing at the door. And finally, I believe she 259 00:16:11.409 --> 00:16:17.200 left and was followed by my people. and went to 260 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:22.779 a bar or a restaurant, and my people observed them 261 00:16:23.370 --> 00:16:27.990 talking and discussing things, and it was that girl. And 262 00:16:28.950 --> 00:16:30.909 the girl that was on the plane, I don't know 263 00:16:30.950 --> 00:16:34.110 who she was, she had a sheet of paper, a 264 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:37.379 bunch of paper that the girl read, and I think 265 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:40.519 she handed her a pen and she signed it, and 266 00:16:40.580 --> 00:16:41.500 that's when they left. 267 00:16:43.529 --> 00:16:46.450 So a woman flying in Nygaard's private plane travels to 268 00:16:46.490 --> 00:16:50.029 the Dominican Republic. She meets with another young woman who 269 00:16:50.070 --> 00:16:54.480 Jerry's investigators identify as Maribel, the same woman I'd been 270 00:16:54.500 --> 00:16:57.779 searching for for months, and hands her some papers to sign. 271 00:16:58.940 --> 00:17:01.919 Not long after that, we received a sworn affidavit from 272 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:06.849 Nygaard's lawyers, signed by Maribel. In it, Maribel describes her 273 00:17:06.950 --> 00:17:11.049 first visit to Nygaard Key as pleasant and fun. Nygaard, 274 00:17:11.069 --> 00:17:15.059 she says, was a perfect gentleman. At this point, we 275 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.079 were only a day away from airing our story, when 276 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:20.119 I got a voicemail from Nygaard's lawyer. 277 00:17:22.779 --> 00:17:24.059 That's a proper calling. 278 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:27.319 I hope you're having a good evening. It's Thursday, April 279 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:32.099 8th at about 5 to 9. I'm calling about Nygaard. 280 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:36.740 I'm now representing him with respect to one aspect of 281 00:17:36.819 --> 00:17:38.000 allegation number one. 282 00:17:39.259 --> 00:17:42.420 Allegation number one was what we named Maribel's story in 283 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:43.640 our letter to Peter Nygaard. 284 00:17:45.269 --> 00:17:50.009 And that's the issue of potential prosecution for defamatory libel 285 00:17:50.950 --> 00:17:56.180 under the criminal code. We

have evidence, apparently, that the 286 00:17:56.299 --> 00:17:59.980 girl in question says that there was nothing improper about 287 00:18:00.589 --> 00:18:05.890 Nygaard's behavior. Apparently, CBC didn't interview this woman, so I 288 00:18:05.890 --> 00:18:07.769 don't know if they're going with that aspect of the 289 00:18:07.809 --> 00:18:10.609 story tomorrow night or not, but I can tell you 290 00:18:10.670 --> 00:18:13.849 that I'm putting your clients on notice that Sawa and 291 00:18:13.930 --> 00:18:18.650 any others may be liable to prosecution for defamatory libel, 292 00:18:19.109 --> 00:18:22.730 either at the instance of the Attorney General or privately. 293 00:18:23.589 --> 00:18:23.890 Thanks. 294 00:18:24.490 --> 00:18:24.869 Take care. 295 00:18:24.910 --> 00:18:25.150 Bye-bye. 296 00:18:27.829 --> 00:18:32.519 Defamatory libel under the criminal code? I did some late-night research. 297 00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:37.200 Criminal libel is a rare but real charge in Canada. Usually, 298 00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:39.880 if someone feels they've been defamed in the media, they 299 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.900 launch a civil suit. But there is an option for 300 00:18:42.940 --> 00:18:46.359 them to pursue criminal charges if they believe another person 301 00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:49.890 has published defamatory information knowing it to be false. 302 00:18:50.829 --> 00:18:51.230 The kicker? 303 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.299 A charge like this can be made privately, without police involvement. 304 00:18:56.740 --> 00:18:59.619 In other words, someone with money to burn, like Peter Nygaard, 305 00:19:00.009 --> 00:19:03.789 can hire a lawyer and file the charge themselves. And 306 00:19:03.849 --> 00:19:07.890 we'd be forced to defend ourselves in criminal court. It 307 00:19:07.930 --> 00:19:12.730 carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison. Here 308 00:19:12.769 --> 00:19:15.589 was our dilemma. On one hand, we had a signed 309 00:19:15.630 --> 00:19:17.990 statement from Maribel saying nothing had happened to her at 310 00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:22.359 Nygaard Key. On the other, we had three sources who 311 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:23.339 said something did. 312 00:19:28.299 --> 00:19:30.700 I remember we were just on the verge of going 313 00:19:30.740 --> 00:19:34.309 to air in April 2010. And I think at that 314 00:19:34.390 --> 00:19:39.630 point we'd been sued already multiple times. I remember you 315 00:19:39.650 --> 00:19:41.690 and I looking at each other and saying, we'd better 316 00:19:41.769 --> 00:19:45.039 talk this over somewhere else just to get our heads clear. 317 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.559 And we went to that pub and we sat down. 318 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.490 And the question was, it's still not too late. We 319 00:19:52.529 --> 00:19:56.289 can still get out of this if for any reason 320 00:19:56.369 --> 00:20:00.589 we think that that's the wise course. Didn't take long, frankly, 321 00:20:01.170 --> 00:20:03.190 to decide it wasn't the right course, that we had 322 00:20:03.250 --> 00:20:08.170 come too far, that legally, journalistically, ethically, we were on 323 00:20:08.390 --> 00:20:12.450 firm ground. And we went back and committed ourselves to it. 324 00:20:12.460 --> 00:20:15.349 I remember we had one last drink and we toasted 325 00:20:15.609 --> 00:20:18.650 to our good fortune and said that we hoped we 326 00:20:18.690 --> 00:20:22.529 wouldn't be there three years later in the middle of 327 00:20:22.589 --> 00:20:27.500 a legal morass and still involved with the Nygaard story. Well, 328 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:33.599 it's not three years, Tim. It's 11. 329 00:20:35.380 --> 00:20:38.390 We went ahead with the story about Maribel. including an 330 00:20:38.470 --> 00:20:42.190 interview with two former employees describing what they witnessed. 331 00:20:44.049 --> 00:20:48.430 She just panicked and just started screaming and crying and 332 00:20:48.470 --> 00:20:52.490 she ran out and she actually ended up finding us, right? 333 00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:55.410 And she sat right next to me and she just, 334 00:20:55.539 --> 00:20:57.289 tears were rolling down. I said, put my arm around her, 335 00:20:57.299 --> 00:20:59.700 I said, what's wrong? And she says, I have to 336 00:20:59.740 --> 00:21:02.240 get out of here. And I came to talk to you, 337 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.200 I think, and only place I knew, I knew a 338 00:21:04.220 --> 00:21:05.880 place where to hide her, where nobody would look. 339 00:21:07.630 --> 00:21:09.980 And Peter Nygaard followed through with his threat. 340 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:17.819 Months later, we received summonses and legal documents from the 341 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:21.680 Attorney General of Manitoba informing us that we were being 342 00:21:21.859 --> 00:21:24.740 criminally charged under the Criminal Code of Canada. 343 00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:30.640 Bob McEwen and another Fifth Estate producer, Morris Karp, and 344 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:34.329 I were all facing charges. But we weren't the only 345 00:21:34.410 --> 00:21:37.029 ones paying a personal price for taking on Peter Nygaard. 346 00:21:38.069 --> 00:21:41.589 After our story came out, he sued whistleblowers Patrick Prowse 347 00:21:41.849 --> 00:21:45.630 and Dana Neal again in civil court. They would spend 348 00:21:45.730 --> 00:21:50.829 tens of thousands defending themselves. So looking back at all 349 00:21:50.869 --> 00:21:55.230 of this, 12 years since you did this, was it 350 00:21:55.250 --> 00:21:55.559 worth it? 351 00:21:56.710 --> 00:21:59.650 Yeah, I mean, it just feels like the clock is ticking. 352 00:22:01.130 --> 00:22:02.269 And what about the price you paid? 353 00:22:02.289 --> 00:22:06.769 I didn't have a choice. What else could I do? 354 00:22:07.230 --> 00:22:07.609 Ignore it? 355 00:22:08.609 --> 00:22:09.309 Walk away from it. 356 00:22:10.390 --> 00:22:10.890 Others have. 357 00:22:11.950 -->

00:22:12.289 Oh, yeah. 358 00:22:12.910 --> 00:22:16.869 Absolutely. Or they dip their toe in the water and 359 00:22:16.910 --> 00:22:19.690 then it was way too cold or too hot and 360 00:22:19.750 --> 00:22:25.609 backed off. But, yeah, I was just– didn't have a choice. 361 00:22:28.509 --> 00:22:31.490 I'm glad you guys have pursued– I have a question 362 00:22:31.509 --> 00:22:35.710 for you. If there hadn't been like this just crazy 363 00:22:35.730 --> 00:22:39.519 amount of lawsuits and litigation and everything– Would you guys 364 00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:41.980 have continued to investigate this like you have? 365 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:46.599 It's hard to know, I guess, isn't it? I mean, 366 00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:49.819 they do become a motivating factor at a certain point, 367 00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:54.920 don't they? I mean, if there was nothing there, why 368 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:56.000 fight back so hard? 369 00:22:56.019 --> 00:22:59.000 Because I think you told me that you guys had 370 00:22:59.059 --> 00:23:01.329 never seen anything like this before, dealt with anything like 371 00:23:01.349 --> 00:23:01.809 this before. 372 00:23:02.619 --> 00:23:03.569 Not before or since. 373 00:23:04.180 --> 00:23:05.640 Not before or since. Well, that's good to hear. 374 00:23:06.309 --> 00:23:06.470 Yeah. 375 00:23:07.130 --> 00:23:11.380 It's the only time I've been criminally charged for doing 376 00:23:11.420 --> 00:23:17.779 my job. Before we go any further, I want to 377 00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:21.240 take a moment to point out something important. Nothing that 378 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:23.920 I nor any other journalist went through in covering Peter 379 00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:27.880 Nygaard will ever compare to the violence and trauma experienced 380 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:31.460 by the women and girls he's accused of raping. The 381 00:23:31.500 --> 00:23:34.319 strength and bravery they showed in coming forward to expose 382 00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:39.430 him is unmatched. But in answering the question, Why did 383 00:23:39.470 --> 00:23:41.299 it take so long for the truth to come out? 384 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:44.519 It's important to look at how far Nygaard went to 385 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:49.460 stop the journalists who tried to investigate him. In our situation, 386 00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:52.099 we knew the statement by Maribel would be used against 387 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.640 us in the criminal case. But it wasn't until later 388 00:23:55.660 --> 00:23:59.220 that we realized Peter Nygaard's charges against us would involve 389 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:04.759 a second element. A three-month-long undercover investigation into us. 390 00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:18.519 Early morning on a Manhattan sidewalk, a shooting caught on 391 00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:24.220 surveillance video. It was an assassination-style killing, and everybody saw it. Now, 392 00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:27.559 as Luigi Mangione prepares to stand trial for the murder 393 00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:31.880 of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, which he denies, a new 394 00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:36.329 podcast series from ABC Audio and 2020 goes inside this 395 00:24:36.420 --> 00:24:41.990 captivating case. I'm ABC News legal analyst Brian Buckmeyer. Listen 396 00:24:42.049 --> 00:24:46.240 to Burden of Proof, Luigi Mangione, wherever you get your podcasts. 397 00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:55.519 We've waited long enough. Monzo, a new era of banking. 398 00:25:12.930 --> 00:25:15.569 Monzo Bank Europe DAC, trading as Monzo, is regulated by 399 00:25:15.589 --> 00:25:17.470 the Central Bank of Ireland, T's and C's apply. 400 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:25.440 Nygaard's use of the courts to protect his reputation is legendary. 401 00:25:26.380 --> 00:25:28.980 He sued or used the courts to threaten the Winnipeg 402 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.920 Free Press, a Finnish newspaper, Toronto Life magazine, the New 403 00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:35.880 York Times, and several former employees who have tried to 404 00:25:35.900 --> 00:25:36.700 go public. 405 00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:37.069 Over the years. 406 00:25:38.069 --> 00:25:40.289 And then there are the five legal actions he's filed 407 00:25:40.329 --> 00:25:44.130 against the CBC and our sources. including the criminal charges. 408 00:25:46.029 --> 00:25:49.650 By 2011, Peter Nygaard's legal assault against the CBC was 409 00:25:49.710 --> 00:25:53.650 in high gear. That's when a private investigator working for Nygaard, 410 00:25:54.089 --> 00:25:58.690 Alec Morrison, filed an affidavit saying he has recordings that 411 00:25:58.730 --> 00:26:02.150 show the CBC's criminal behavior, and they needed to be 412 00:26:02.190 --> 00:26:05.910 brought to the attention of the FBI. It was the 413 00:26:06.019 --> 00:26:09.140 first clear indication we had been infiltrated. 414 00:26:12.779 --> 00:26:16.539 It's almost five to six now, and it's July the 6th. 415 00:26:17.259 --> 00:26:19.279 I'm in the Lewis Hotel. 416 00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:25.440 The audio is hard to make out, but this is 417 00:26:25.539 --> 00:26:28.920 Alec Morrison recording himself as he's coming out of a meeting. 418 00:26:29.740 --> 00:26:38.759 He was asking for dirt on Peter Nygaard. He said 419 00:26:38.779 --> 00:26:41.160 his objective was to put something concrete in front of 420 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:45.160 his client. His client is supposedly a fashion company in Europe, 421 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:49.720 a Nygaard competitor that wants to take Nygaard down. But 422 00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:53.400 in reality, Alec Morrison is a former Scotland Yard detective 423 00:26:53.740 --> 00:26:57.750 working for Peter Nygaard. He has brokered this fake meeting 424 00:26:57.769 --> 00:27:02.329 with the CBC's private investigator. His actual goal? Dig up 425 00:27:02.369 --> 00:27:13.279 dirt on the CBC. And for some reason... he keeps 426 00:27:13.460 --> 00:27:16.849 asking about a connection between the

CBC and Nygaard's neighbour 427 00:27:17.009 --> 00:27:19.170 and nemesis, billionaire Louis Bacon. 428 00:27:19.190 --> 00:27:22.509 Do you remember we were asking if the question was 429 00:27:22.650 --> 00:27:26.009 whether Louis Bacon kind of assisted with the CBC program? 430 00:27:28.470 --> 00:27:32.400 Jerry Forrester, our PI, has no idea these conversations are 431 00:27:32.420 --> 00:27:36.279 being recorded, or that the person they're really after is me. 432 00:27:37.339 --> 00:27:40.640 What's next Tuesday, King Rock? Each hour. 433 00:27:47.779 --> 00:27:50.980 Last year, I told Jerry the true purpose of these meetings. 434 00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:56.069 You know what evidence they used to charge me and 435 00:27:56.089 --> 00:27:58.849 other people at the CBC with criminal charge? They used 436 00:27:58.950 --> 00:28:00.250 Alex Morrison's investigation. 437 00:28:01.349 --> 00:28:02.150 Are you kidding me? 438 00:28:03.170 --> 00:28:06.710 So, from my understanding, they went to you to get 439 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:07.150 to us. 440 00:28:08.420 --> 00:28:08.819 You think? 441 00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:10.140 I know. 442 00:28:14.809 --> 00:28:17.230 At this point, I'd already been approached by a number 443 00:28:17.269 --> 00:28:20.599 of different people, claiming they were looking into Peter Nygaard. 444 00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:25.920 It turned out they were also working for him. We 445 00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:29.619 would later learn this undercover ruse lasted three months and 446 00:28:29.660 --> 00:28:32.950 involved interviews with dozens of sources and trips to New York, 447 00:28:33.269 --> 00:28:36.910 the Bahamas, and eventually another meeting between Forrester and that 448 00:28:37.009 --> 00:28:38.549 fake fashion company in London. 449 00:28:40.430 --> 00:28:43.230 We're meeting with this fashion company. We don't know the 450 00:28:43.269 --> 00:28:46.740 name of it yet. And Bradley and I fly to London. 451 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:50.720 He had somebody meet us at the airport. And on 452 00:28:50.740 --> 00:28:54.519 the guy's, what do you call it, front seat, the 453 00:28:54.619 --> 00:28:57.220 console in the front seat, there was the name of 454 00:28:57.240 --> 00:28:59.730 the company written on it. It was like I was 455 00:28:59.769 --> 00:29:03.470 set up. He has me sit in the front seat. 456 00:29:03.789 --> 00:29:05.789 He has the name of this company there that he's 457 00:29:06.170 --> 00:29:10.079 picking us up for. We're working for Jennifer Fashions, and 458 00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:14.680 there is a Jennifer Fashions. So we meet in an 459 00:29:14.789 --> 00:29:16.569 office building somewhere in London. 460 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.609 Late into the meeting, the so-called fashion executives finally ask 461 00:29:22.769 --> 00:29:26.630 our private investigators their big question. They want to know 462 00:29:26.670 --> 00:29:31.309 if Louis Bacon, Nygaard's former neighbor, funded our story. Of 463 00:29:31.390 --> 00:29:34.069 course the answer is no, which is what Jerry tells them. 464 00:29:35.109 --> 00:29:37.539 If the goal of the undercover investigation was to connect 465 00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:40.619 the CBC to Louis Bacon and show some kind of conspiracy, 466 00:29:41.180 --> 00:29:46.079 then it was a bust. Instead, Nygaard's own fake investigation 467 00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:49.910 resulted in several people on tape talking about rumors of 468 00:29:49.970 --> 00:29:58.950 Nygaard's abuse of others. This is Mary Braithwaite. She's the 469 00:29:58.990 --> 00:30:02.589 GM of the Lyford Key Property Owners Association in the Bahamas. 470 00:30:03.890 --> 00:30:08.559 Those undercover tapes could have been damaging to Nygaard. 471 00:30:27.910 --> 00:30:31.140 And his lawyer successfully argued for a publication ban in court, 472 00:30:31.579 --> 00:30:35.779 keeping the tapes from the public. But recently, they were released. 473 00:30:36.579 --> 00:30:40.279 And that's why we can finally tell the story. Despite 474 00:30:40.299 --> 00:30:43.839 the undercover investigation finding no evidence we did anything wrong, 475 00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:48.279 the Canadian criminal case against us chugged on. That's because 476 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:51.480 Nygaard still had the second pillar of his case, his 477 00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:56.019 key witness, that young woman from the Dominican Republic, Maribel. 478 00:30:57.549 --> 00:31:00.150 She had sworn an affidavit that effectively said the CBC 479 00:31:00.190 --> 00:31:03.109 got it wrong. Peter Nygaard had done nothing to hurt her. 480 00:31:04.569 --> 00:31:08.700 She was scheduled to testify against us in 2019. But 481 00:31:08.740 --> 00:31:12.180 before that could happen, I met a Nygaard insider who 482 00:31:12.220 --> 00:31:14.859 helped me see her story in a whole new light. 483 00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:21.700 In 2014, big news broke that one of Peter Nygaard's 484 00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:26.359 personal videographers had switched sides. After working for Nygaard for 485 00:31:26.380 --> 00:31:30.990 nearly three years, this employee approached Louis Bacon. In exchange 486 00:31:31.029 --> 00:31:32.529 for a promise to back him up if he were 487 00:31:32.569 --> 00:31:35.710 sued and payment for living expenses, he was willing to 488 00:31:35.750 --> 00:31:37.990 turn over all of his video footage and become a 489 00:31:38.019 --> 00:31:42.640 witness against Nygaard. Last year, I finally got a chance 490 00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:43.180 to meet him. 491 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:52.240 So this video is Nygaard flying on his airplane and 492 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:55.259 one of the girlfriends is dancing on the stripper pole. 493 00:31:56.769 --> 00:32:00.150 His name is Steven Feraglio. He agreed to talk to 494 00:32:00.190 --> 00:32:01.829 me and show me his footage. 495 00:32:03.690 --> 00:32:07.250 When I first was hired, Nygaard told me that the 496 00:32:07.269 --> 00:32:09.569

reason why Jesus is so popular is because he had 497 00:32:09.589 --> 00:32:12.869 a good PR team. He was well-documented. So he wanted 498 00:32:13.009 --> 00:32:16.549 everything filmed. And then later we would piece it together 499 00:32:16.609 --> 00:32:19.549 and edit it however we saw fit. But my job 500 00:32:19.609 --> 00:32:23.029 was to film literally everything. 99% of my travels was 501 00:32:23.049 --> 00:32:23.450 I was filming. 502 00:32:27.650 --> 00:32:31.000 Stephen said he wanted to make something clear. As far 503 00:32:31.059 --> 00:32:34.059 as he knows, he never witnessed or filmed anything illegal. 504 00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:38.079 We spent hours and hours together looking at the video 505 00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:41.380 he shot. He showed me footage of Nygaard screaming at 506 00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:42.059 his employees. 507 00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:47.569 It's so disgusting, your fucking behaviors. It's the worst fucking 508 00:32:47.589 --> 00:32:48.529 place I visit. 509 00:32:49.609 --> 00:32:51.309 Only place I can be pissed off. 510 00:32:51.190 --> 00:32:51.730 Like this at. 511 00:32:52.789 --> 00:32:57.039 It's just sheer fucking neglect. Sheer fucking rudeness. 512 00:32:59.089 --> 00:33:01.569 Trying to get the phone number of a 16-year-old athlete 513 00:33:01.890 --> 00:33:03.049 at the Olympics in London. 514 00:33:04.109 --> 00:33:06.250 Just to be here at Olympics and to be running. 515 00:33:06.390 --> 00:33:07.190 Good for you. 516 00:33:07.210 --> 00:33:08.829 And that's 16 yet. 517 00:33:08.890 --> 00:33:12.529 So you've got another Olympics to come in Brazil. 518 00:33:13.009 --> 00:33:14.339 Get a cell number or something. 519 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:18.440 And bragging about how he helped get politicians elected in 520 00:33:18.460 --> 00:33:19.019 the Bahamas. 521 00:33:20.420 --> 00:33:21.400 Isn't that wonderful? 522 00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:22.809 We won, we won, we won. 523 00:33:23.029 --> 00:33:25.509 Thanks to everybody, you know. They were one of the 524 00:33:25.529 --> 00:33:26.509 best nights of my life. 525 00:33:26.990 --> 00:33:27.329 Yeah. 526 00:33:27.789 --> 00:33:30.049 I never thought I'd get so involved with politics, of 527 00:33:30.089 --> 00:33:33.910 all things. Let alone be the key instrument in making 528 00:33:33.950 --> 00:33:35.069 it happen, for Christ's sake. 529 00:33:35.109 --> 00:33:35.470 Wow. 530 00:33:37.410 --> 00:33:40.589 Then, as we scrolled through his footage together, out of 531 00:33:40.609 --> 00:33:43.329 the blue, Stephen mentioned a familiar name. 532 00:33:44.869 --> 00:33:49.730 All right, this is Maribel Rodriguez on Nygaard's plane. 533 00:33:51.289 --> 00:33:54.109 That's right, the same woman who was the key witness 534 00:33:54.150 --> 00:33:56.750 against us in the criminal case launched by Nygaard. 535 00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:02.299 So I first met Maribel on a trip to Dominican Republic, 536 00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:05.980 to Punta Cana, with Nygaard.

It was clear that Nygaard 537 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:09.469 previously knew her. She was very familiar with him, and 538 00:34:10.070 --> 00:34:12.250 then she started kind of working with us from that 539 00:34:12.309 --> 00:34:12.809 trip on. 540 00:34:14.690 --> 00:34:19.889 Stephen's videos proved, after our original documentary, Nygaard gave Maribel 541 00:34:20.070 --> 00:34:23.559 a job. There are videos of her traveling in China 542 00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:33.000 with Nygaard and touring the Great Wall. Maribel playing poker 543 00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:39.730 with Nygaard in Winnipeg. Partying with Nygaard at a nightclub 544 00:34:39.809 --> 00:34:47.010 in the Bahamas. Even celebrating Christmas with Nygaard and his 545 00:34:47.050 --> 00:34:48.449 family and making a speech. 546 00:34:49.510 --> 00:34:53.889 And thank you everybody. And thank you to be here. 547 00:34:55.829 --> 00:34:58.349 While the videos appear to show Maribel having a good time, 548 00:34:59.150 --> 00:35:02.690 Stephen said when the camera wasn't rolling, the reality could 549 00:35:02.730 --> 00:35:03.449 be much different. 550 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.139 So she translated and helped us in Dominican Republic. She 551 00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.559 kind of just took us around and from then on, 552 00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:15.519 she became kind of like a personal assistant. I know 553 00:35:15.579 --> 00:35:19.159 on one occasion she was cutting Nygaard's fingernails and brushing 554 00:35:19.179 --> 00:35:23.280 his teeth and showering him and also packing his pills 555 00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:25.969 and organizing him when he would go to a hotel. 556 00:35:26.150 --> 00:35:28.449 She would unpack him and she became kind of like 557 00:35:28.489 --> 00:35:31.789 a personal assistant. So we were staying at a hotel 558 00:35:31.849 --> 00:35:34.570 in China and I heard screaming from down the hall 559 00:35:34.650 --> 00:35:37.849 and it was Maribel and Nygaard. And I walked over 560 00:35:37.869 --> 00:35:39.969 and I listened and he was just screaming at her 561 00:35:40.030 --> 00:35:41.929 and she was on the floor and she was crying 562 00:35:41.969 --> 00:35:44.789 and she was like flailing her arms and she was 563 00:35:44.809 --> 00:35:46.289 just very, very distraught. 564 00:35:48.699 --> 00:35:51.840 Then Stephen dropped a bomb. He tells me about a 565 00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:54.519 video he filmed with Maribel that appears to have direct 566 00:35:54.579 --> 00:35:57.500 ties with Nygaard's criminal case against the CBC. 567 00:35:58.980 --> 00:36:01.460 At some point when I was working for Nygaard, Tina Tula, 568 00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:04.460 corporate executive with the Nygaard companies, approached me and asked 569 00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:09.900 me to film something. And so I went down and 570 00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:12.179 I set up for an interview with Maribel. 571 00:36:13.929 --> 00:36:16.190 We wish we could let you hear it. But Stephen 572 00:36:16.250 --> 00:36:18.809 says he was told to destroy the footage after he 573 00:36:18.869 --> 00:36:19.269 filmed it. 574 00:36:20.710 --> 00:36:23.190 I still have the invoice and a picture from the setup. 575 00:36:24.570 --> 00:36:26.590 She had a statement up off to the side of 576 00:36:26.630 --> 00:36:30.929 the camera and Tina was there coaching her. And I 577 00:36:30.949 --> 00:36:33.320 had to cut the camera multiple times. Maribel was crying 578 00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:35.079 and we would stop and then I would help her 579 00:36:35.139 --> 00:36:38.340 pronounce words. She didn't know what some of these words are. 580 00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:40.480 It was very obvious that this statement was written for 581 00:36:40.539 --> 00:36:43.000 her and she was reading it sort of against her will. 582 00:36:44.090 --> 00:36:47.050 And so after that, I edited that video, I sent 583 00:36:47.110 --> 00:36:49.610 it in, and then I was paid very promptly. 584 00:36:51.190 --> 00:36:55.010 Stephen's recollection of that videotaped statement is a near identical 585 00:36:55.070 --> 00:36:58.989 match to Maribel's sworn affidavit sent to the CBC. 586 00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:03.679 I remember her saying, Peter Nygaard was nothing but a 587 00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:07.219 gentleman to me. I never met the Mays. 588 00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.760 The Mays are the two former Nygaard employees we interviewed. 589 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:15.980 who said she was screaming and crying and looking for 590 00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:16.639 help one night. 591 00:37:18.780 --> 00:37:21.880 So when Tina would leave or get an email or something, 592 00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:23.500 Maribel and I would look at each other and she 593 00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:27.940 would give me this look like her heart rate, I'm sure, 594 00:37:27.980 --> 00:37:32.199 was elevated. Her breaths were erratic. She was sobbing. This 595 00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:37.340 was not a pleasant experience for Maribel. And then the 596 00:37:37.380 --> 00:37:39.820 fact that I was then asked to This was the 597 00:37:39.980 --> 00:37:43.210 only time I've ever been asked by the Nygaard companies 598 00:37:43.730 --> 00:37:48.530 to erase footage. I think Tina just said, you know, 599 00:37:48.550 --> 00:37:51.070 this is just like a secret project where you got 600 00:37:51.090 --> 00:37:53.530 to just do it. So on a number of occasions 601 00:37:53.570 --> 00:37:56.199 while filming her, I had to cut the camera and 602 00:37:56.590 --> 00:38:01.880 we calmed Maribel down and then we recorded. So I 603 00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:04.699 cut out all the parts where Maribel was distraught and 604 00:38:04.739 --> 00:38:08.119 I edited together a nice statement. I gave it to 605 00:38:08.139 --> 00:38:09.920 Tina and deleted it on my end. 606 00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:14.679 I reached Tina on the phone late last year. 607 00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:19.460 So we spoke to one of Peter Nygaard's videographers who 608

00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:22.199 talks about the day that you asked him to set 609 00:38:22.260 --> 00:38:24.880 up for an interview and that Maribel came down for 610 00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:27.039 the interview and that she was crying, that you were 611 00:38:27.099 --> 00:38:30.030 coaching her, and that she was making a statement against 612 00:38:30.070 --> 00:38:31.860 her will. That's what he observed. 613 00:38:32.300 --> 00:38:32.739 Oh no. 614 00:38:33.070 --> 00:38:34.050 Oh my goodness, no. 615 00:38:34.969 --> 00:38:38.150 Maribel Rodriguez would never have done any kind of a 616 00:38:38.170 --> 00:38:42.800 statement against her will. I mean, that's not true. 617 00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:46.460 So do you recall a statement being taken from Maribel 618 00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:47.420 on video? 619 00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:53.840 I recall Maribel giving a statement of her own, and 620 00:38:54.070 --> 00:38:58.989 I recall helping with her accent. She speaks, at that 621 00:38:59.030 --> 00:39:03.679 time anyway, she had a heavy Spanish accent. She was 622 00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:05.880 trying hard to pronounce the things that she wanted to 623 00:39:05.900 --> 00:39:09.800 say in English, but that's, I mean, she would never 624 00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:12.420 have made a fake anything. 625 00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:18.750 We had more questions for Tina, but later she said 626 00:39:18.789 --> 00:39:21.710 she wouldn't talk to us anymore because of, quote, all 627 00:39:21.730 --> 00:39:27.750 of the legal cases. I asked even Fraglio if Maribel 628 00:39:27.769 --> 00:39:30.519 had ever said anything about Nygaard's fight with the CBC. 629 00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:35.159 Not directly about this. I do have something that I 630 00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:39.429 could share. Maribel had a son back in Dominican Republic 631 00:39:39.530 --> 00:39:44.090 and her mother that she was supporting financially. So I 632 00:39:44.130 --> 00:39:45.989 know that she would take her paychecks and send them 633 00:39:46.010 --> 00:39:49.460 directly to her mother and her son. So I remember 634 00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:52.659 her saying, like, this job is crazy. This is crazy, 635 00:39:52.699 --> 00:39:54.199 but I have to do it. I have to support 636 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:54.719 my family. 637 00:40:00.449 --> 00:40:05.170 It was a sad revelation. We contacted Maribel recently, but 638 00:40:05.210 --> 00:40:07.389 she let us know through her lawyer that she wasn't 639 00:40:07.429 --> 00:40:10.710 going to speak to us at this time. Over the 640 00:40:10.750 --> 00:40:14.539 last decade, we saw up close the extreme lengths that 641 00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:17.559 Peter Nygaard was willing to go to to stop our reporting. 642 00:40:18.619 --> 00:40:23.800 I'd been surveilled, sued, and criminally prosecuted. It's no wonder 643 00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:26.840 that other journalists before us had tried, but were defeated. 644 00:40:28.050 --> 00:40:31.090 Without the CBC behind us, our story almost certainly would 645 00:40:31.130 --> 00:40:33.969 have died before it went to air. And we wouldn't 646 00:40:34.010 --> 00:40:38.329 be doing this podcast today. Nygaard repeatedly used the courts 647 00:40:38.530 --> 00:40:41.690 and its political and economic influence to silence anyone who 648 00:40:41.710 --> 00:40:45.590 tried to expose him. Until last year, when dozens of 649 00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:48.650 women came forward So many were kept in the dark. 650 00:40:50.510 --> 00:40:53.269 Even members of Nygaard's family say they had no idea. 651 00:40:53.849 --> 00:40:56.309 But now, some of them are speaking out against him 652 00:40:57.130 --> 00:41:06.530 and bringing forward accusations of their own. Coming up on 653 00:41:06.730 --> 00:41:07.469 Evil by Design. 654 00:41:07.489 --> 00:41:11.010 I'm looking at his eyes because I was thinking to myself, 655 00:41:11.659 --> 00:41:13.739 who is this guy? Did I just see what I 656 00:41:13.780 --> 00:41:18.260 really thought I saw? Your father... is going to go 657 00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:20.780 down in history as one of the worst sexual predators 658 00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:25.500 there ever was. It is a living hell. This is 659 00:41:25.579 --> 00:41:29.920 what I saw with my own eyes. This isn't he said, 660 00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:30.340 she said. 661 00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:33.219 This is what my brothers told me. 662 00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:38.199 If anything you've heard in this episode has left you 663 00:41:38.219 --> 00:41:42.860 looking for someone to talk to, please visit cbc.ca slash uncover. 664 00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:45.460 We have a number of resources there for those in 665 00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:49.159 need of help and support. Evil by Design is a 666 00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:53.250 co-production between CBC Podcasts and The Fifth Estate. You can 667 00:41:53.289 --> 00:41:57.010 find The Fifth Estate's latest documentary, Peter Nygaard, The Secret Videos, 668 00:41:57.250 --> 00:42:01.150 on YouTube. This podcast is written by producer Ashley Mack, 669 00:42:01.469 --> 00:42:06.230 associate producer Alina Ghosh, and me, Timothy Sawa, with assistance 670 00:42:06.369 --> 00:42:09.829 from Lynette Fortune at The Fifth Estate. Mixing and sound 671 00:42:09.849 --> 00:42:13.920 design by Evan Kelly. with technical assistance from Lauda Antonelli. 672 00:42:14.780 --> 00:42:18.219 For this episode, special thanks goes to Danny Henry, Sally Reardon, 673 00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:23.360 and David Studer. Emily Connell is our digital producer. Fact-checking 674 00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:27.880 by Emily Mathieu, and legal advice from Sean Mormon. Original 675 00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:32.360 music by Olivia Pasquarelli. Our senior producer at CBC Podcasts 676 00:42:32.539 --> 00:42:36.219 is Chris Oak, and our executive producer is Arif Noorani. 677 00:42:48.420 --> 00:42:53.260 For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.