النص الكامل لحلقة The Gracious Two - LIVE Show 094 - Chad Taylor

know. People thought it was so bad that you 00:04:08.979 --> 00:04:11.199 had to green screen him in. That's hysterical. 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:14.800 Yeah. I got the same thing. Somebody sent me 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:16.879 a text and he was like, were you two actually 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:19.819 together? So like, no, we were, I swear to God 00:04:19.819 --> 00:04:22.120 and to God, we were in the same room. Look, no 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:24.339 green screen. No green screen. Everybody's actually 00:04:24.339 --> 00:04:29.329 here. This is no, this is AI Chad. Sorry. Oh 00:04:29.329 --> 00:04:32.449 my God. Imagine at one day. That's exactly what's 00:04:32.449 --> 00:04:33.930 going to be going on here. We won't be here, 00:04:33.970 --> 00:04:37.230 but AI will be doing our show. So talk to us 00:04:37.230 --> 00:04:39.069 guys. How did that video come about and what 00:04:39.069 --> 00:04:42.470 was it like being in the studio again together? 00:04:43.569 --> 00:04:46.189 Well, I got to give the credit to Chad. He's 00:04:46.189 --> 00:04:50.329 the one that said, well, actually it started 00:04:50.329 --> 00:04:54.079 with, I think originally I told him. When we 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:56.100 were still not communicating with each other 00:04:56.100 --> 00:04:57.800 that I'd seen that he'd done one of those drum 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.180 videos And you know how like you can stitch the 00:05:00.180 --> 00:05:07.800 things together. I was gonna do a stitch He basically 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:09.279 was like well the hell with that why don't you 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:14.180 just come in and play and And it really started 00:05:14.180 --> 00:05:18.680 from there and then oh You know, this is the 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:23.569 problem with this strange semi autistic brain 00:05:23.569 --> 00:05:28.310 of mine. I didn't want to just do what had already 00:05:28.310 --> 00:05:31.389 been released for Likini Shoes. So what you're 00:05:31.389 --> 00:05:35.509 hearing is a brand new, never heard before track 00:05:35.509 --> 00:05:38.889 that is Chris Shin on vocals, Patrick Dahlheimer 00:05:38.889 --> 00:05:42.310 on bass, me on guitar, and Chad Gracie on drums. 00:05:45.939 --> 00:05:48.740 through the miracles of, you know, mixing techniques 00:05:48.740 --> 00:05:50.800 and stuff that we were able to bring back and 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:52.220 bring to life. So what you're hearing, like when 00:05:52.220 --> 00:05:55.079 you're watching Chad perform, like that's literally 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:58.720 the drums actually in the recording and, you 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:03.000 know, my guitars and then Patrick Space and Chris 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:08.759 is like, when I say raw vocals, Other than putting 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:11.199 just a little tiny bit of EQ and compression 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:14.360 on them You know, there's not even a skosh of 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:17.019 auto -tune nothing That's just his vocals as 00:06:17.019

--> 00:06:19.420 pure as what they can be which is insane Of course, 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:21.519 and the mix is really drum heavy because let's 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:24.000 be honest. It's a drum video so we really wanted 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:27.519 the drums to sit super forward in the mix and 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:32.839 I spent an awful lot of time One of the signature 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:36.879 sounds, you know, this is standing next to Chad 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:39.379 without earplugs in or anything for so many years 00:06:39.379 --> 00:06:43.420 of his playing, he has an uncanny ability to 00:06:43.420 --> 00:06:48.060 play brilliant polyrhythms and ghost notes, in 00:06:48.060 --> 00:06:50.759 particular with his left hand. If you ever watch 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:54.720 any video of him playing, he does this weird 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:57.550 little rotational thing with the drumstick. If 00:06:57.550 --> 00:06:59.790 you watch it really closely in between every 00:06:59.790 --> 00:07:02.449 hit he rotates his drumstick and rotates and 00:07:02.449 --> 00:07:05.110 rotates and somewhere in between those He's playing 00:07:05.110 --> 00:07:09.170 these little ghost notes well in the in the first 00:07:09.170 --> 00:07:12.089 recording and the first mix right you can't hear 00:07:12.089 --> 00:07:13.810 that as much as what I could hear it standing 00:07:13.810 --> 00:07:17.029 on stage and so I've spent a whole bunch of time 00:07:17.029 --> 00:07:19.490 like trying to make that really stick forward 00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:23.350 in the mix and Oh, man, it's so hypnotic. It's 00:07:23.350 --> 00:07:26.790 it's so great and then Patrick's bass part is 00:07:26.790 --> 00:07:29.829 the most unconventional bass part, and you know, 00:07:29.990 --> 00:07:34.649 I know it's so easy to forget, but it is, when 00:07:34.649 --> 00:07:37.209 I say hypnotic, the thing that makes the track 00:07:37.209 --> 00:07:39.670 feel loping and hypnotic is what Patrick plays 00:07:39.670 --> 00:07:43.829 on bass. And I think that song, Likini's, more 00:07:43.829 --> 00:07:46.889 than any other song, really showcases the elemental 00:07:46.889 --> 00:07:51.490 aspect of what really made live life. Like that, 00:07:51.689 --> 00:07:54.759 Anne's melody is so incredibly powerful. The 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:58.399 drums are just, I mean, so in your face and rhythmic 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:02.779 and they both rock like you kind of want to head 00:08:02.779 --> 00:08:05.220 bang to it, but it also makes you dance. Yeah, 00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:07.680 that's kind of a hard thing to do. Like ACDC 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:10.519 is like rock, just straightforward. This does 00:08:10.519 --> 00:08:13.540 a little bit of that, but has almost like a purdy 00:08:13.540 --> 00:08:17.959 shuffle in it. And then sorry to get all musical 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:22.459 there. No, that is like, yeah, if I stop you're 00:08:22.459 --> 00:08:24.800 here, we remember your

train of thought. Sure. 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:27.959 OK, because just hearing you talk about your 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:30.839 music, you could hear how much passion and how 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:34.220 much thought you put into it. And this is again, 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:36.600 this is not an Ed Kowalczyk bashing session, 00:08:36.899 --> 00:08:39.659 but I don't think he's ever put that much thought 00:08:39.659 --> 00:08:42.919 into into live at all, into the music, because 00:08:42.919 --> 00:08:45.379 it's just what I'm hearing coming from that side 00:08:45.379 --> 00:08:48.279 now. It's just nowhere near sonically what you 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:51.940 guys once were. And it's clear that it's because 00:08:51.940 --> 00:08:55.450 a lot of the passion i .e. the two people right 00:08:55.450 --> 00:08:57.710 in this, you know, on this chat right now are 00:08:57.710 --> 00:09:03.429 gone. CT is like, based on the music theory friggin, 00:09:03.429 --> 00:09:06.570 you know, professional of live. Yeah, it has 00:09:06.570 --> 00:09:10.590 been. I think our work, Chad, don't you think 00:09:10.590 --> 00:09:13.009 our work, I would say our work as musicians, 00:09:13.570 --> 00:09:16.549 I think in particular, Patrick, Gracie and I, 00:09:16.730 --> 00:09:19.309 you know, we created the turn. We created the 00:09:19.309 --> 00:09:21.429 gracious few and of course all those live albums 00:09:21.429 --> 00:09:24.929 and you know, it's a signature sound. We take 00:09:24.929 --> 00:09:27.549 it with us wherever we go. Right. Yeah. There 00:09:27.549 --> 00:09:29.210 was just someone in the comments asking about 00:09:29.210 --> 00:09:31.769 getting the turn back on, uh, back out in the 00:09:31.769 --> 00:09:34.149 universe. And we will be working on that for 00:09:34.149 --> 00:09:36.789 sure. We're going to get that the gracious few 00:09:36.789 --> 00:09:39.110 not that long ago back out there. Yeah. Work 00:09:39.110 --> 00:09:42.509 on the turn next. I wore my gracious few hat 00:09:42.509 --> 00:09:45.610 for, for all the fans at home. Of course. It's 00:09:45.610 --> 00:09:48.549 the only hat I wear, and I have a blue flannel 00:09:48.549 --> 00:09:51.490 and a green flannel. And some people are saying, 00:09:51.590 --> 00:09:53.929 well, Chad is in like 70 degrees out, but not 00:09:53.929 --> 00:09:56.549 in my house. It's very cool in my house. And 00:09:56.549 --> 00:10:02.169 I still, this is part of stimming, which I like 00:10:02.169 --> 00:10:05.360 learned. Like when I was a kid, Chad might even 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:07.039 remember that I used to just shake my legs and 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:10.179 stuff all the time. And that's like part of ADHD 00:10:10.179 --> 00:10:13.419 and some spectral issues that I have. And so 00:10:13.419 --> 00:10:15.799 like, I never knew this, but like my habitual 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:18.559 clothing, like I have very like soft things. 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:20.899 I can't have anything itchy or scratchy. Like 00:10:20.899 --> 00:10:23.279 that's all, you know, part of the strangeness 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:27.340 that I guess makes me me. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Let's 00:10:27.340 --> 00:10:30.019 talk about, hold on, John. Sorry, I have to cut 00:10:30.019 --> 00:10:32.580 you off. Let's talk about. your sobriety and 00:10:32.580 --> 00:10:36.059 that's kind of what has brought us to this moment 00:10:36.059 --> 00:10:40.340 is yeah, I think that you becoming sober, you 00:10:40.340 --> 00:10:45.240 know, figuring out whatever flaws you had as 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:48.919 being and being on alcohol has or whatever you 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:52.539 want to call it has realizing that and bettering 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:58.059 yourself has brought us to this point. It's interesting 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:02.259 because I had a really, I say this jokingly, 00:11:02.340 --> 00:11:06.480 but I had an amazing drinking career. I was a 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:12.059 prolific drinker and always thought I had that 00:11:12.059 --> 00:11:19.690 under control and always thought that... what 00:11:19.690 --> 00:11:24.389 I was doing was normal for a guy of my caliber 00:11:24.389 --> 00:11:26.669 of musicianship and a rock band, all those things. 00:11:27.169 --> 00:11:31.610 And it was fully, I want to say endorsed and 00:11:31.610 --> 00:11:37.669 tolerated by almost everybody around me. And 00:11:37.669 --> 00:11:40.610 mostly because I was a difficult person to say 00:11:40.610 --> 00:11:45.990 no to or really even to give advice to. There's 00:11:45.990 --> 00:11:47.669 a real turning point, you know, I started like 00:11:47.669 --> 00:11:51.230 most young people drinking when I was super young 00:11:51.230 --> 00:11:55.070 You know definitely before I was 18 like middle 00:11:55.070 --> 00:11:56.950 school age funny enough probably about the time 00:11:56.950 --> 00:11:59.950 we started the band and all that was completely 00:11:59.950 --> 00:12:06.470 normal and regular but as I grew and I matured 00:12:06.470 --> 00:12:10.110 the Environment I was in was like the perfect 00:12:10.110 --> 00:12:14.850 Petri dish to breed an alcoholic and I didn't 00:12:14.669 --> 00:12:18.529 I knew that I had some family issues with this. 00:12:18.850 --> 00:12:21.669 My grandfather on my mother's side was a heavy 00:12:21.669 --> 00:12:26.850 drinker. And it's kind of funny, because I'll 00:12:26.850 --> 00:12:31.330 go all the way to the end and then jump back. 00:12:31.649 --> 00:12:34.690 But I basically wound up on stage playing a show. 00:12:35.549 --> 00:12:38.830 And I don't remember the show. I mean, I'm telling 00:12:38.830 --> 00:12:42.730 you, it was like one of those Scott Weiland -esque. 00:12:44.579 --> 00:12:46.840 I'm kind of almost surprised that a video hasn't 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:50.600 been on the internet. But, you know, I was slurring 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:52.980 my words and, you know, the next day, the following 00:12:52.980

--> 00:12:57.059 day, you know, every woman in my life was crying. 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:00.360 That was my three daughters, my wife, my mother, 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:03.799 some friends and family were like really concerned. 00:13:04.299 --> 00:13:07.759 And I think everybody here, you, John, you, Chad, 00:13:07.980 --> 00:13:11.320 all the fans coming in, they know like my number 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:13.919 one love, the thing I love the most is music. 00:13:14.139 --> 00:13:17.080 Yeah, and when I realized now what's funny and 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:19.740 this is really sad. This is the sad part about 00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:23.360 alcoholism I would have probably left it steal 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:27.279 away my family and In fact, it probably almost 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:30.960 did several times Wow, but when it came right 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:35.519 up to the line of losing music I Was like well 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:38.039 something needs to change. So I made up my mind 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:39.620 the following day by the way, there was on my 00:13:39.620 --> 00:13:44.559 birthday so November 24th just about two years 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:48.700 ago now, it's a year and a half ago, I said, 00:13:48.740 --> 00:13:50.500 that's it, I'm not gonna have another drink. 00:13:51.259 --> 00:13:53.700 The problem is that's just a decision not to 00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:55.820 drink, right? And I knew, like, so I woke up 00:13:55.820 --> 00:13:58.399 the next day, I was like, okay, I'm never doing 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:01.240 that again. By the way, anybody in this chat 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:02.639 or anybody that's ever had a drink, how many 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:04.259 times you wake up and you had a hangover, you're 00:14:04.259 --> 00:14:05.799 like, I'll never do that again. And of course, 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:07.679 what do you normally do is you go back to drinking, 00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:12.049 right? so the difference was I had a Chad and 00:14:12.049 --> 00:14:15.070 I have a mutual friend a woman named Lori Waller 00:14:15.070 --> 00:14:20.789 and Lori is a psychologist and I was talking 00:14:20.789 --> 00:14:23.129 to her casually like she called me in fact to 00:14:23.129 --> 00:14:25.490 just say happy birthday I was on the phone with 00:14:25.490 --> 00:14:27.450 her I said well you know I went up getting hammered 00:14:27.450 --> 00:14:29.590 last night and I think that's it for me I'm gonna 00:14:29.590 --> 00:14:32.429 stop drinking she said well how serious are you 00:14:32.429 --> 00:14:36.250 about stopping drinking and I said well I'm really 00:14:36.250 --> 00:14:39.009 serious I'm never doing it again And she said, 00:14:39.090 --> 00:14:43.230 well, I know that you have a great constitution. 00:14:43.269 --> 00:14:45.830 I'm sure that you can pull that off. But most 00:14:45.830 --> 00:14:49.210 people that don't find a program fail. And then 00:14:49.210 --> 00:14:51.330 I asked a very difficult question.

I said, hold 00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:53.570 on. You sound like you were waiting for this 00:14:53.570 --> 00:14:56.870 conversation to happen. And she said, well, I 00:14:56.870 --> 00:14:59.190 knew that eventually we would have this conversation. 00:14:59.250 --> 00:15:01.470 That will be Lori. That will be Lori for sure. 00:15:01.629 --> 00:15:04.929 Yeah. And then I said, oh, shit. And she said, 00:15:04.970 --> 00:15:06.590 well, do you have any friends that are like in 00:15:06.590 --> 00:15:08.309 a program or anything? It doesn't particularly 00:15:08.309 --> 00:15:12.710 have to be AA, but why don't you call them? And 00:15:12.710 --> 00:15:14.409 I said, well, I've got this great friend of mine. 00:15:14.509 --> 00:15:17.029 I know he's in AA. And she said, well, hang up 00:15:17.029 --> 00:15:20.090 the phone with me and call him. And this bud 00:15:20.090 --> 00:15:22.870 of mine, who I'll let remain anonymous, but I 00:15:22.870 --> 00:15:25.230 called him on the phone. And I was like, so I'm 00:15:25.230 --> 00:15:26.909 thinking about stopping drinking all these things. 00:15:27.149 --> 00:15:32.190 And I must have called on a Monday. And the AA 00:15:32.190 --> 00:15:34.870 meetings that I attend are on Tuesday mornings 00:15:34.870 --> 00:15:38.269 and Thursday mornings. And he said, well, it's 00:15:38.269 --> 00:15:40.090 weird. He said, there's an AA meeting tomorrow 00:15:40.090 --> 00:15:43.110 morning. It's my home meeting. It's at 730 AM 00:15:43.110 --> 00:15:45.269 tomorrow. And I took a breath and I started to 00:15:45.269 --> 00:15:47.110 answer. And I looked down and the phone was dead. 00:15:47.269 --> 00:15:52.149 He just hung up. Oh, shit. Oh. And so I was like 00:15:52.149 --> 00:15:56.049 trapped. Wow. And so I'm sharing this story for 00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:58.769 anybody else. I don't hold any judgments to anybody 00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:00.970 that's dealt with addiction. But I showed up 00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:02.570 at the first meeting. And the craziest thing, 00:16:02.629 --> 00:16:05.929 I was outside at 730 AM. I'm like, what the hell 00:16:05.929 --> 00:16:09.110 am I doing here? I'm not an alcoholic. I'm fine. 00:16:10.090 --> 00:16:12.850 And then I just kept on thinking, but you drove 00:16:12.850 --> 00:16:14.210 all this way to come to the meeting. What are 00:16:14.210 --> 00:16:15.789 you doing sitting outside? You ought to at least 00:16:15.789 --> 00:16:21.700 go in. So my secondary impulse was, I'll listen 00:16:21.700 --> 00:16:23.740 and observe, but I'm not going to say anything. 00:16:23.860 --> 00:16:28.080 I'm not going to really participate. And as this 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.340 sharing happened around the room, people just 00:16:30.340 --> 00:16:32.679 started sharing their stories. I didn't know 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:34.620 this now, but I know it now. The most important 00:16:34.620 --> 00:16:37.460 person in the room is their first visit to an 00:16:37.460 --> 00:16:41.620 AA meeting. And everybody just started sharing 00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:45.000 about In particular, the topic of the day was 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.700 all the rationalizations that people have. Like, 00:16:47.820 --> 00:16:50.139 oh, I only have two glasses of wine at lunch, 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:53.059 and I only have martinis at this time of the 00:16:53.059 --> 00:16:56.139 day, or I only drink beer, not the hard stuff, 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:57.080 and all these things. And I'm sitting there going. 00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:00.120 I can have champagne and tequila. Yes. Yeah. 00:17:02.100 --> 00:17:05.319 Our boy, Patrick. That's how you cut the tequila. 00:17:05.930 --> 00:17:08.349 It's one of the most famous stories in the band, 00:17:08.349 --> 00:17:11.670 but yes, it's true. I can only have champagne 00:17:11.670 --> 00:17:13.690 and tequila. I gotta stick away from the beer. 00:17:16.690 --> 00:17:19.009 But eventually, as they round -robed and kind 00:17:19.009 --> 00:17:21.849 of went around the room, I thought to myself, 00:17:23.109 --> 00:17:25.809 because I'm a pretty impulsive person, I was 00:17:25.809 --> 00:17:27.869 like, oh, I can either come back for two or three 00:17:27.869 --> 00:17:30.549 of these or just rip this band -aid off right 00:17:30.549 --> 00:17:34.019 now. And I said, you know, Hey, my name is Chad 00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:35.980 Taylor and I'm an alcoholic and I said it for 00:17:35.980 --> 00:17:40.539 the very first time. And, uh, wow, that, that 00:17:40.539 --> 00:17:42.839 felt good to even say it again. It felt brand 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.619 new just then, but, uh, you know, it's like, 00:17:45.619 --> 00:17:49.279 uh, laying down prostrate and saying, you know, 00:17:49.299 --> 00:17:52.000 just handing yourself over to the universe. And 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:55.359 I, you know, so my process was one, I had to 00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:58.319 recognize I was powerless to the effects of alcohol. 00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:00.259 And that's the first thing they teach you in 00:18:00.259 --> 00:18:02.900 that program. And that was great. Like, I put 00:18:02.900 --> 00:18:04.759 down the bottle. I did that. Like, you know, 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:06.559 there's a million great songs about putting down 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.720 the bottle. I did that. But honestly, the biggest 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:12.480 difference in my life and the only reason why 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.900 I'm here and talking to Chad was what I recognized 00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:20.519 was I had this very, very, very, very long list 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:24.500 of resentments. Every human I knew in my life 00:18:24.500 --> 00:18:27.339 was on that list. Every person. My mom, my dad, 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:31.230 my brother, probably my sisters. Of course my 00:18:31.230 --> 00:18:33.529 bandmates and all my friends everybody was on 00:18:33.529 --> 00:18:35.750 the list I could tell you all their freaking 00:18:35.750 -->

00:18:37.569 faults and all the things that they had wrong 00:18:37.569 --> 00:18:41.230 with them and that list of resentments was so 00:18:41.230 --> 00:18:44.849 long and Through the big book and a what I recognized 00:18:44.849 --> 00:18:47.289 is the number one pathway back to drinking right 00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:50.730 is to hold on to those resentments and After 00:18:50.730 --> 00:18:55.970 that that led into forgiveness. So Yeah, in my 00:18:55.970 --> 00:18:58.730 practice, what I believe is that because I prayed 00:18:58.730 --> 00:19:02.289 for Jack Gracie every single day that I got him 00:19:02.289 --> 00:19:07.210 back. I love it, dude. That is a touching story 00:19:07.210 --> 00:19:11.250 and cheers for sure. It sounds like when you 00:19:11.250 --> 00:19:13.250 were at that meeting and you were able to say 00:19:13.250 --> 00:19:15.109 those words for the first time, it was almost 00:19:15.109 --> 00:19:19.930 like a freeing moment. I hear I'm here with people. 00:19:20.130 --> 00:19:22.349 I'm saying this out loud and there's people around 00:19:22.349 --> 00:19:23.970 that kind of been through here and it almost 00:19:23.970 --> 00:19:26.470 seems like it was like a freeing moment for you 00:19:26.470 --> 00:19:29.170 rather than something like where you were admitting 00:19:29.170 --> 00:19:31.029 like a fault of yours or something. It seemed 00:19:31.029 --> 00:19:33.910 like it opened you rather than closed. Yeah. 00:19:33.990 --> 00:19:36.710 And the weirdest thing is and I really do truly 00:19:36.710 --> 00:19:38.990 mean this. I was literally the last person to 00:19:38.990 --> 00:19:42.609 know. I picked a day several months into sobriety 00:19:42.609 --> 00:19:44.789 and called it like siblings day where I was going 00:19:44.789 --> 00:19:48.589 to admit. you know my alcoholism to like my my 00:19:48.589 --> 00:19:52.809 brother and my sisters and uh it was really funny 00:19:52.809 --> 00:19:54.769 you know i prepared this like kind of message 00:19:54.769 --> 00:19:57.309 that i went up copy and pasting to each of them 00:19:57.309 --> 00:20:00.349 and i full -blown expected that they write back 00:20:00.349 --> 00:20:03.789 and say like who you oh my god but they were 00:20:03.789 --> 00:20:05.690 like it was almost like everybody wrote back 00:20:05.690 --> 00:20:09.369 and said yeah it's like about time wow and i 00:20:09.369 --> 00:20:12.009 thought holy shit i'm the last guy to know and 00:20:12.009 --> 00:20:15.940 of course you know john You've had the great 00:20:15.940 --> 00:20:19.440 honor of getting to know my good bud Chad, but 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.000 we spent a lifetime together. And for much of 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:24.140 that lifetime, Chad was in a band with an alcoholic. 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:29.319 So that's a big, and it's a big problematic thing. 00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:32.259 Yeah, for sure. It caused more problems on our 00:20:32.259 --> 00:20:34.400 band than what I would have really

recognized. 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:36.880 Do you think it was easy on Ed, Chad, or Patrick 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:39.960 to be in a band where they, I'm sure quietly 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:42.549 that they were concerned about me. I was going 00:20:42.549 --> 00:20:45.509 to say, Chad, did you, uh, periods where I was, 00:20:45.710 --> 00:20:47.450 but it's always seen like, I mean, there were 00:20:47.450 --> 00:20:49.809 periods where he would drink more than usual 00:20:49.809 --> 00:20:52.490 and then he would kind of cut back. And so there 00:20:52.490 --> 00:20:54.970 were periods where I was, where I could, you 00:20:54.970 --> 00:20:57.589 know, could say I was concerned, but you were 00:20:57.589 --> 00:20:59.690 talking most of it up to just rock star life 00:20:59.690 --> 00:21:02.809 hood. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't, I never 00:21:02.809 --> 00:21:07.049 perceived there to be like a problem, but you 00:21:07.049 --> 00:21:09.490 know, or I would have said something. It just 00:21:09.490 --> 00:21:12.089 felt like, oh, he's getting a little drunk, but 00:21:12.089 --> 00:21:14.750 then it would be okay for a while. So, I mean, 00:21:14.950 --> 00:21:18.430 Patrick, Patrick was, you know, he's self -admitted, 00:21:18.430 --> 00:21:21.230 admitted alcoholic too, but Patrick was much 00:21:21.230 --> 00:21:27.289 more like shit -faced drunk than Chad would have 00:21:27.289 --> 00:21:29.230 his moments like that. And Patrick was more consistent 00:21:29.230 --> 00:21:30.829 with it. And then Patrick kind of cleaned himself 00:21:30.829 --> 00:21:34.980 up and, you know. He had his own path to that, 00:21:35.059 --> 00:21:38.180 to doing that. But that's where the famous, I 00:21:38.180 --> 00:21:39.700 can have champagne and tequila. That was one 00:21:39.700 --> 00:21:44.099 of his famous lines. Where he got sober and then 00:21:44.099 --> 00:21:46.039 came back and was like, I can have champagne. 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.960 Let's put champagne back on the rider for me. 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:51.039 We're like, okay. And we're just kind of thinking, 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.160 well, he's a big boy. And then one day we showed 00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:55.079 up to a gig in South Carolina and he just goes 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:57.279 up to the bar and he's like, I can have champagne 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:03.199 and tequila. We're like, okay. We got this. Love 00:22:03.199 --> 00:22:05.799 it. And yeah, what's weird about our group, it 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:07.460 wasn't like one of us said, yeah, no, that's 00:22:07.460 --> 00:22:09.880 not a good idea. Yeah, we might have all been 00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:12.980 thinking it, but we're just like, you know, boy, 00:22:12.980 --> 00:22:15.059 I guess he knows what he's doing, you know, and 00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:17.640 I have to say something here that's like really 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:20.319 an admission in this moment. Have you ever seen 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:22.839 like, you know, one of those hostage scenes where 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:25.279 the hostage taker puts the person in front of 00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:28.980 them and it shields them and protects them? Is 00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:31.470 this like the Stockholm syndrome? Patrick was 00:22:31.470 --> 00:22:34.690 my hostage. I put Patrick out in front of me. 00:22:34.690 --> 00:22:37.109 It'd be like, well, look at Patrick. He's wasted. 00:22:37.470 --> 00:22:40.170 Right. I got it. He wouldn't pay attention to 00:22:40.170 --> 00:22:44.609 me. Right. You know, as long as I had somebody 00:22:44.609 --> 00:22:46.529 else in the bunch that was just a little bit 00:22:46.529 --> 00:22:48.809 more fucked up than me, then you wouldn't notice 00:22:48.809 --> 00:22:53.789 me. You calculated. Well, every alcoholic is. 00:22:54.750 --> 00:22:58.210 That's probably an interesting thing to really 00:22:58.210 --> 00:23:02.339 disclose even about myself is that the drinking 00:23:02.339 --> 00:23:05.400 has a lot to do with an incredibly hyperactive 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:09.559 brain. I've learned so much about myself through 00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:11.940 things that I would have never investigated through 00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:17.680 sobriety. And for example, just even my relationship 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:21.460 with music, all of a sudden I realized, well, 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:26.289 part of my soothing was to play the guitar. That 00:23:26.289 --> 00:23:28.390 was like a major, major factor, right? So the 00:23:28.390 --> 00:23:30.390 thing that made me feel whole and made me feel 00:23:30.390 --> 00:23:33.210 comfortable and normal away from the bottle was 00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:37.329 music. And then imagine if the people and the 00:23:37.329 --> 00:23:40.269 relationships that you were making music with, 00:23:40.890 --> 00:23:43.450 if there was toxicity within those relationships 00:23:43.450 --> 00:23:46.589 and then suddenly playing music started to also 00:23:46.589 --> 00:23:50.029 feel toxic, then the only escape for me was the 00:23:50.029 --> 00:23:52.819 bottle. Yeah, then it became the bottle and I 00:23:52.819 --> 00:23:56.079 tried guys so desperately to be a good husband 00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:00.319 and a good father But I look back on that and 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:02.299 you know the people that I impacted the most 00:24:02.299 --> 00:24:04.799 I mean God bless my bandmates, but my wife and 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:08.740 children I mean I put them through hell and Like 00:24:08.740 --> 00:24:12.799 when when the tour ended and I went home I was 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:16.839 still that guy And it got pretty bad even to 00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:20.089 the point actually on tour. I had handlers At 00:24:20.089 --> 00:24:22.990 home, I don't have handlers, right? So like when 00:24:22.990 --> 00:24:25.730 I started, you know, waking up in my driveway 00:24:25.730 --> 00:24:27.869 with my car still running and the sun was coming 00:24:27.869 -->

00:24:29.750 up and I was just like trying to figure out how 00:24:29.750 --> 00:24:32.329 the hell I got home. I recognize, you know, that's 00:24:32.329 --> 00:24:35.990 probably not a very good trait. Yeah. And I share 00:24:35.990 --> 00:24:39.170 this stuff openly, by the way, AA is an anonymous 00:24:39.170 --> 00:24:41.809 program, but I share it openly because one of 00:24:41.809 --> 00:24:44.990 the things I recognized was I was like, I want 00:24:44.990 --> 00:24:48.109 accountability globally. I don't want to be the 00:24:48.109 --> 00:24:50.750 guy that's like, I snuck off to South Africa 00:24:50.750 --> 00:24:53.109 and I'm in a bar and squirreled away having a 00:24:53.109 --> 00:24:55.670 drink. Part of being open and having a platform 00:24:55.670 --> 00:24:57.490 like this is somebody would probably walk over 00:24:57.490 --> 00:24:58.950 to me and be like, I don't think you're supposed 00:24:58.950 --> 00:25:02.650 to be here. Yeah. I'm glad you did that, dude. 00:25:02.990 --> 00:25:04.710 You said something that I want to touch on is 00:25:04.710 --> 00:25:06.509 that, you know, like a lot of people in your 00:25:06.509 --> 00:25:10.089 life, you know, maybe saw this going around on 00:25:10.089 --> 00:25:11.789 and didn't kind of say anything to you. And I 00:25:11.789 --> 00:25:13.829 think that happens a lot in the entertainment 00:25:13.829 --> 00:25:17.140 community. speaking specifically like Kurt Cobain, 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:19.980 for instance, everybody knew he was a raging 00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:22.960 heroin addict and nobody stepped in to try to 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:24.839 say, hey, dude, maybe you should stop this before 00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:27.339 it gets crazy and just kind of let that stuff 00:25:27.339 --> 00:25:30.279 go on and snowball. And it seems like a theme. 00:25:30.740 --> 00:25:33.539 Yeah. What we do on being on the road, it is 00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:35.680 it is a conducive environment for it because 00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:38.720 you can get whatever you want. Everyone's saying 00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.180 yes to you. You're you know, if you're in a band 00:25:41.180 --> 00:25:44.640 like we were. or we are whatever it's you you 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.819 have handlers like Chad said and they their job 00:25:46.819 --> 00:25:48.599 is to make you happy so whatever you fucking 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:52.640 ask for they will go get I mean yeah from alcohol 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:54.900 all the way down to like the most serious drugs 00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:57.079 not that we ever did that kind of stuff but you 00:25:57.079 --> 00:25:59.240 know they'll they'll go get you they'll go score 00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:00.660 you heroin they're like someone will go fucking 00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:03.640 do it if you ask for like and so it's it's just 00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:05.940 a whole environment of yeah whatever whatever 00:26:05.940 --> 00:26:08.700 you guys need to be happy to get on stage You

00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:10.619 know, just keep them on stage, keep them happy. 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:12.519 Whatever it takes you to take those feelings 00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:15.680 and bury them deep inside and never let them 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:17.859 up. And just get on stage and make everybody 00:26:17.859 --> 00:26:19.700 money. And that's, you know, that's the environment 00:26:19.700 --> 00:26:22.200 you're in. Yeah, the machine. They don't want 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.920 to stop that from going on. A bunch of comments 00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:28.119 here. Chad Taylor, they want to know. I'll put 00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:30.700 it up on the screen here. How inebriated you 00:26:30.700 --> 00:26:32.259 were when you jumped off stage. Chad brought 00:26:32.259 --> 00:26:34.900 this up, I think, last Tuesday. You went off 00:26:34.900 --> 00:26:37.799 stage and like this concert of the stop. Yeah. 00:26:39.959 --> 00:26:42.779 Yeah, I was probably three quarters of the way 00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:44.740 through a bottle of Jack Daniels. That was the 00:26:44.740 --> 00:26:48.119 gracious few routine. I would always take a bottle 00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:52.039 of Jack. I mean, I learned this from a guy that 00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:54.079 I consider a father figure. And he'll be mad 00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.380 that I'm telling this story. But he learned it 00:26:56.380 --> 00:26:59.759 from Led Zeppelin, OK? They would take a bottle 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:01.779 of Jack Daniels, and they would just slightly 00:27:01.779 --> 00:27:03.940 crack the top. And then they would hit the top 00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:06.289 of the bottle, and the cap would go flying. Because 00:27:06.289 --> 00:27:08.509 the point was you didn't need the cap because 00:27:08.509 --> 00:27:11.490 the bottle was going to get finished. So I'd 00:27:11.490 --> 00:27:14.529 do that before every show. And I would nip at 00:27:14.529 --> 00:27:17.910 the bottle just direct. Why would you want to 00:27:17.910 --> 00:27:20.269 mess with ice or something? And then I'd walk 00:27:20.269 --> 00:27:22.990 on stage and I'd just sit that back on my guitar 00:27:22.990 --> 00:27:26.450 amp and drink. And we were at the Double Door 00:27:26.450 --> 00:27:29.589 in Chicago with the Gracious Few. And we were 00:27:29.589 --> 00:27:32.490 at the last song of the set. And by the way, 00:27:32.569 --> 00:27:37.410 I had like. I had enough self -control to basically 00:27:37.410 --> 00:27:42.089 always be able to play a pretty good show. But 00:27:42.089 --> 00:27:44.549 knowing that we were coming towards the end of 00:27:44.549 --> 00:27:47.349 the set, I was probably starting to pour on heavier, 00:27:47.890 --> 00:27:51.589 looking for the after -show effect. And to be 00:27:51.589 --> 00:27:53.549 fair to anybody that ever wonders, I didn't fall 00:27:53.549 --> 00:27:55.710 off the stage or anything. I told fans at the 00:27:55.710 --> 00:27:57.950 front, because I came up with a harebrained scheme 00:27:57.950 --> 00:27:59.569 right in the middle of the song, that I was going 00:27:59.569 --> 00:28:02.829 to jump into the crowd. And I told them to move. 00:28:02.950 --> 00:28:06.849 And I jumped from I just need to preface this 00:28:06.849 --> 00:28:09.910 and say I was in cowboy boots. Oh, wow. I jumped 00:28:09.910 --> 00:28:13.609 from a stage that was about shoulder height from 00:28:13.609 --> 00:28:16.390 the stage down onto the floor. And it was, you 00:28:16.390 --> 00:28:19.190 know, like solid wood floor. And when I hit, 00:28:19.369 --> 00:28:22.130 I think that the angle of boot just instantly 00:28:22.130 --> 00:28:25.190 severed my quad tendon. Oof. And I fell down 00:28:25.190 --> 00:28:28.819 on the ground. And I will say this, bizarrely, 00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:32.039 I'm happy I had about half a bottle of Jack Daniels. 00:28:33.059 --> 00:28:37.940 That helped. Yeah, that was crazy. But the crazier 00:28:37.940 --> 00:28:40.559 part of all that is that I finished the tour. 00:28:41.980 --> 00:28:43.980 Do you finish the tour after that? You did finish. 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:47.259 Yeah. Yeah. Wow. The fucking blown out knee. 00:28:47.930 --> 00:28:50.529 You must have definitely had some Jack Daniels 00:28:50.529 --> 00:28:53.170 helping you there. Well, and then at that point, 00:28:53.250 --> 00:28:55.130 that was Jack Daniels and then painkillers all 00:28:55.130 --> 00:28:57.529 at the same time. I was suddenly Johnny Cash. 00:28:58.309 --> 00:29:01.529 Dangerous combo. Yeah, really not healthy. And 00:29:01.529 --> 00:29:03.789 then actually, it's kind of funny because at 00:29:03.789 --> 00:29:06.410 the end of that tour, I know it was around Christmas 00:29:06.410 --> 00:29:08.769 time that I had to come home and get surgery. 00:29:09.250 --> 00:29:10.769 And really, that has a lot to do with the end 00:29:10.769 --> 00:29:13.619 of The Gracious Few. I got, I had to go in and 00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:16.220 get surgery and then you have to have your leg 00:29:16.220 --> 00:29:18.839 and an exoskeleton on this stuff. Cause it's 00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:20.700 a quad tendon. It's the largest muscle in your 00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:23.599 body. And they had to re attach it. And Kevin 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.240 Martin called me up and said, dude, while you're 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:28.819 recovering, right. I got to, I owe the record 00:29:28.819 --> 00:29:30.920 label candle box album. I want to make a candle 00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:35.059 box album. And, uh, I kind of knew at that point, 00:29:35.059 --> 00:29:36.819 I was like, well, we'll never come back to the 00:29:36.819 --> 00:29:40.309 gracious to you because you know, he'll have 00:29:40.309 --> 00:29:42.690 to tour in support of Candlebox and in support 00:29:42.690 --> 00:29:47.829 of an album. And just knowing that, oh my God, 00:29:47.950 --> 00:29:52.410 did my depression, and you think like, oh, well, 00:29:52.410 --> 00:29:55.670 that's

when you would get sober. No, I got, it 00:29:55.670 --> 00:29:58.250 was like way worse. I couldn't work. I couldn't 00:29:58.250 --> 00:30:02.069 do the thing that I love to do. The Gracious 00:30:02.069 --> 00:30:05.190 Few was not the most financially responsible 00:30:05.190 --> 00:30:07.700 thing, chatter, I ever did. Oh, Chad Patrick 00:30:07.700 --> 00:30:11.940 and I ever did. And, you know, as that was kind 00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:14.019 of coming to a close, I was like, God, you know, 00:30:14.059 --> 00:30:15.940 what am I going to do? There was no live. There 00:30:15.940 --> 00:30:20.599 was no Ed. We had we never even contemplated 00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:22.440 doing that. I was trying to kind of like laying 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.660 in my bed thinking, well, like, how the hell 00:30:26.660 --> 00:30:29.559 did I wind up here? And I mean, anybody who listened 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:32.680 to the story would know, well, geez, all that 00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:34.380 drinking probably didn't help. But I'm telling 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:37.609 you, like I was first of all, Psychologically, 00:30:38.210 --> 00:30:41.990 I never dealt with Ed leaving the band. When 00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:44.390 Ed left the band in 2009 and then we started 00:30:44.390 --> 00:30:47.009 Gracious Hue and all those things, I actually, 00:30:47.150 --> 00:30:48.849 Chad Gracie gets all the credit for the Gracious 00:30:48.849 --> 00:30:52.250 Hue because I told both Chad and Patrick, that's 00:30:52.250 --> 00:30:55.390 it. I'm never doing music again. Bad touch, bad 00:30:55.390 --> 00:30:58.829 feeling. Don't want anything to do with it. And 00:30:58.829 --> 00:31:02.089 Gracie kept calling me, dude, what are you doing? 00:31:02.309 --> 00:31:03.970 What are you doing? We need songs. We got to 00:31:03.970 --> 00:31:06.269 get in a room. We got to play. and, you know, 00:31:06.329 --> 00:31:08.130 we got in a room and the first song that we put 00:31:08.130 --> 00:31:11.650 together was Honest Man. That was before Live 00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:13.789 ended though, because we made Honest Man and 00:31:13.789 --> 00:31:18.049 then Ed came up with Believe and we were like, 00:31:18.109 --> 00:31:23.490 okay. So let me ask you this, this is a good 00:31:23.490 --> 00:31:26.930 point. So Honest Man was more the vision you 00:31:26.930 --> 00:31:31.250 guys saw for that song rather than Believe. Well, 00:31:31.250 --> 00:31:33.690 I mean, we wrote the music to it and then that's 00:31:33.690 --> 00:31:35.529 what they came up with. And we were just kind 00:31:35.529 --> 00:31:38.450 of like, we played it once in concert. It was, 00:31:38.450 --> 00:31:41.190 you know, lackluster. And then, and then Kevin 00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:43.109 got ahold of that. It was like, holy shit, that's, 00:31:43.109 --> 00:31:46.250 that's bad ass. Yeah. Well, there's just a big 00:31:46.250 --> 00:31:47.930 difference. Like you could definitely hear like 00:31:47.930 --> 00:31:51.369 the, the bulk of the song in believe and, and 00:31:51.369 --> 00:31:53.690 honest man are the same, but yeah, the, the, 00:31:53.690 --> 00:31:55.690 to the mixed, I guess the different takes from 00:31:55.690 --> 00:31:59.420 the two lead singers. And just the honest man 00:31:59.420 --> 00:32:01.759 sounded harder when you heard it, like it just 00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:04.380 had a grunge sound to it. Well, we only made 00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:07.059 it really made a demo of it that Ed sang to it. 00:32:07.059 --> 00:32:09.579 So we didn't go. I just heard a concert version. 00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:11.839 I don't think I ever heard even a studio. So, 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:13.319 yeah, that's that's the only time we played it 00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:16.559 out live, some casino. But yeah, anyway, it was. 00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:22.200 Gotcha. Somebody said, were they talking about 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.099 this for Chad Taylor, that the Asbury Park was 00:32:25.099 --> 00:32:27.490 the show you fell? No, it was Chicago. I don't 00:32:27.490 --> 00:32:31.710 know. Respectfully, Justin, it was Chicago. Unless 00:32:31.710 --> 00:32:35.410 he fell off another time. Right. Maybe he felt 00:32:35.410 --> 00:32:37.329 around at that show, but he didn't jump off the 00:32:37.329 --> 00:32:40.569 stage and swear. Trust me. I remember when my 00:32:40.569 --> 00:32:42.630 quad tendon got severed. Yeah, because he went 00:32:42.630 --> 00:32:44.650 to the emergency. He had to go to the emergency 00:32:44.650 --> 00:32:46.430 room in fucking downtown Chicago that night. 00:32:46.450 --> 00:32:48.309 We were just like, oh, is he going to die in 00:32:48.309 --> 00:32:51.700 the emergency room from gunshots? Yeah. Oh, this 00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:53.859 is great. Somebody just wrote, what do you think 00:32:53.859 --> 00:32:55.960 of the similarities of Honest Man and Blow by 00:32:55.960 --> 00:33:00.559 Ed Sheeran? Oh, yeah. Oh, that's right. That's 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:03.500 right. Pretty funny. I may have signed. I may 00:33:03.500 --> 00:33:05.359 have signed an agreement that said that I can't 00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.279 talk about that. Right. I didn't hear this song. 00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:10.140 Is there is there strong similarities? Oh, wait. 00:33:10.220 --> 00:33:12.099 So you just said you can't talk about it. Holy. 00:33:12.299 --> 00:33:15.880 I want to say that. I want to say this. We may 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:20.329 have written that. Ah. All right. So you heard 00:33:20.329 --> 00:33:24.230 that here, folks. Yeah. Mr. Troy Garman says, 00:33:24.250 --> 00:33:27.029 how hard was it for CT to just go along with 00:33:27.029 --> 00:33:29.109 the Ed stuff when it was obvious the direction 00:33:29.109 --> 00:33:32.130 of the band was changing? Well, this is, this 00:33:32.130 --> 00:33:35.230 is I think a good time to put up that chart that 00:33:35.230 --> 00:33:41.250 we can talk about this. Let's go to the chart,

00:33:41.250 --> 00:33:44.990 go to the chart, bring up the charts. Here we 00:33:44.990 --> 00:33:49.970 go. Now I need a pointer. Well, if you can you 00:33:49.970 --> 00:33:54.869 see my mouse, does it work or no? So the so the 00:33:54.869 --> 00:33:58.309 blue line as we see here, Chad, you want to do 00:33:58.309 --> 00:34:00.430 this or you want me to do it? No, I like you 00:34:00.430 --> 00:34:03.809 doing it. You're doing a line represents album 00:34:03.809 --> 00:34:09.110 sales for life. OK, the red dotted line represents 00:34:09.110 --> 00:34:11.590 Ed's amount of ownership in the songwriting. 00:34:13.849 --> 00:34:17.820 So as you see. The more he owned in the songwriting 00:34:17.820 --> 00:34:21.079 or claimed in the songwriting, the less successful 00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:26.300 we were. And that's the chart. And sorry, I was 00:34:26.300 --> 00:34:28.400 moving that chart around while you were doing 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:31.760 that. I was trying to get the best portrait up 00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:34.800 there. Yeah. The point is that don't lie. I mean, 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.539 I once heard it said that numbers don't lie. 00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:42.820 No, numbers don't lie. Yeah. And I also want 00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:46.769 to say that what we've Chad and I have basically, 00:34:47.389 --> 00:34:50.210 just through the discussion of the past and what's 00:34:50.210 --> 00:34:53.809 going on presently, we just figured out that 00:34:53.809 --> 00:34:56.610 Patrick Chad and I were always about life. Ed 00:34:56.610 --> 00:35:01.150 was always about Ed. And maybe that was Ed in 00:35:01.150 --> 00:35:02.929 life, but he was all about himself. We were about 00:35:02.929 --> 00:35:04.929 the collective. We were about getting in a room, 00:35:04.989 --> 00:35:07.070 writing songs together, doing it old school. 00:35:07.389 --> 00:35:09.510 The way we did it, the way we wrote, had the 00:35:09.510 --> 00:35:12.289 most success as a band is obvious on that chart. 00:35:12.590 --> 00:35:15.150 We were in a room. hashing out the song, someone 00:35:15.150 --> 00:35:17.250 will bring an idea like suddenly drama, or Ed 00:35:17.250 --> 00:35:19.650 brings in I alone, and we get in there and we 00:35:19.650 --> 00:35:21.349 fucking put it together and it becomes a live 00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:23.070 song because the four of us are working on it. 00:35:23.949 --> 00:35:26.869 Or conversely, I would, I mean, I was the guy 00:35:26.869 --> 00:35:28.690 for a long time would be like, I don't like that 00:35:28.690 --> 00:35:32.269 idea. I don't even want to play it. And I just 00:35:32.269 --> 00:35:34.449 got at some point, I got tired of being the dick. 00:35:34.489 --> 00:35:36.170 So I just stopped doing that as well. But that 00:35:36.170 --> 00:35:38.969 kind of coincided with when it came to you, Chad, 00:35:38.969 --> 00:35:40.469 and just said, I don't want to write your ideas 00:35:40.469 --> 00:35:43.690 anymore. And that was about Distance to Here, 00:35:43.829 --> 00:35:45.809 right? Right after Distance to Here? Yeah, it 00:35:45.809 --> 00:35:49.670 was about so Peter Friedman passed away in 2003. 00:35:50.150 --> 00:35:53.349 Right. And that's pretty much the beginning of 00:35:53.349 --> 00:35:58.150 the end of the collaborative period. Funny enough, 00:35:58.869 --> 00:36:05.210 when we collaborate. You know, it's it's a magic 00:36:05.210 --> 00:36:08.030 that's insane how I would describe it to people 00:36:08.030 --> 00:36:10.869 that, you know, wonder how a band comes together 00:36:10.869 --> 00:36:14.260 and all these things. If you've ever tried to 00:36:14.260 --> 00:36:18.920 bake anything, baking is like a very, very exact 00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:25.500 process. And so at the age of 15, we had four 00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:29.239 distinct ingredients, a Chad Gracie ingredient, 00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:31.800 a Patrick Dahlheimer ingredient, an Ed Gualchick 00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.000 ingredient, and a Chad Taylor ingredient. And 00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:38.420 we threw them in a baking dish and we put it 00:36:38.420 --> 00:36:41.199 in the oven at 350 and it came out a fucking 00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:45.059 perfect cake. And what you don't do is ever fuck 00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:48.420 with that recipe. You don't change the recipe. 00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:52.300 Yeah, agreed. Coke, new Coke, whatever it is, 00:36:52.340 --> 00:36:54.480 don't change the fucking recipe. The recipe of 00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:59.059 live was one of collaboration. Not one person 00:36:59.059 --> 00:37:02.659 was more important. Oh yeah, Chad brought in 00:37:02.659 --> 00:37:05.239 this song or Brad brought in this song. Who? 00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.360 fucking cares. What really mattered was the collective. 00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:11.539 Yeah. And you have bands like U2 and Metallica, 00:37:11.579 --> 00:37:13.179 like they're all very, they're all collaborative. 00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.340 You've seen, you've seen documenters of them 00:37:15.340 --> 00:37:17.679 working. Have you ever seen a Bono solo tour 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.599 or a James Hetfield solo tour? No. Right. Right. 00:37:21.900 --> 00:37:25.179 Because they understood what the collective was 00:37:25.179 --> 00:37:29.000 and that's what made it great. Not, not your 00:37:29.179 --> 00:37:31.420 not just your lyrics and melody like oh i'm so 00:37:31.420 --> 00:37:33.340 fucking great all everyone's singing my shit 00:37:33.340 --> 00:37:35.940 so right and somebody oh i mean it's kind of 00:37:35.940 --> 00:37:37.360 funny because somebody just said oh i'm sure 00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:41.059 ed will love this podcast no like ed's one of 00:37:41.059 --> 00:37:45.039 the ingredients exactly like right like when 00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:50.380 i say legitimately that i pray for chad gracy 00:37:50.380 --> 00:37:53.360 for patrick dollheimer i equally pray for ed 00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:57.920 i don't i don't

hold that part of that alcoholism 00:37:57.920 --> 00:37:59.760 thing, right, is to find a way into forgiveness, 00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:02.280 like even forgiveness for, like, I don't know, 00:38:02.420 --> 00:38:05.780 who cares if Ed, like, was in it just for himself? 00:38:06.019 --> 00:38:08.500 Like, kind of who cares? But I wish he could 00:38:08.500 --> 00:38:12.880 just give enough to, like, take those ingredients 00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:14.619 and put them back in that pan, because, like, 00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:17.500 damn it, you know, like, we make really great 00:38:17.500 --> 00:38:20.579 cake. I think that's the song, too. Yeah, that's 00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:24.909 a good cake. Yeah. And you know, that's, that's 00:38:24.909 --> 00:38:27.570 the thing. Like, uh, I discussed this with Chad 00:38:27.570 --> 00:38:29.650 as well. Like I'm perfectly willing. And we are 00:38:29.650 --> 00:38:31.869 all three of us are good. The ed ed's a great 00:38:31.869 --> 00:38:34.110 lyricist, great melodies. He's done great, great 00:38:34.110 --> 00:38:35.530 things, but he doesn't want to give that same 00:38:35.530 --> 00:38:37.750 respect back to us. And I don't understand why 00:38:37.750 --> 00:38:42.190 it's crazy. Uh, so, I mean, I think it, I think 00:38:42.190 --> 00:38:45.349 it just goes back to when you guys broke up originally 00:38:45.349 --> 00:38:48.969 in 2009, either whatever happened between there 00:38:48.969 --> 00:38:53.250 and 2016. He got in his head and he would like 00:38:53.250 --> 00:38:54.869 I think he had in his head to just get back in 00:38:54.869 --> 00:38:56.409 and fuck you guys like from the beginning. I 00:38:56.409 --> 00:39:00.349 don't think the 2016 reunion was genuine on his 00:39:00.349 --> 00:39:02.670 part. I think it was almost like I'm going to 00:39:02.670 --> 00:39:04.650 figure out a way to get creative control back 00:39:04.650 --> 00:39:07.349 from from these guys and and fuck them or something 00:39:07.349 --> 00:39:10.170 because it just it doesn't it doesn't add up 00:39:10.170 --> 00:39:12.210 to me for some reason. And you got and you're 00:39:12.210 --> 00:39:15.110 right. The ingredients, the four of you together. 00:39:15.190 --> 00:39:19.369 But you guys really the three of you. Kind of 00:39:19.369 --> 00:39:22.329 did those ingredients in the turn and the gracious 00:39:22.329 --> 00:39:24.989 few. And I'm going to put those albums right 00:39:24.989 --> 00:39:27.349 up against your earlier records, man. Those are 00:39:27.349 --> 00:39:32.150 some fucking banging records. So, I mean, the 00:39:32.150 --> 00:39:34.570 ingredients, you know, it definitely it's magic 00:39:34.570 --> 00:39:36.210 when all four of you are in the group, but it's 00:39:36.210 --> 00:39:39.210 really the three of you guys together making 00:39:39.210 --> 00:39:43.829 some some special shit as well. So, John, what 00:39:43.829 --> 00:39:45.929 you're what you're talking about, though, is 00:39:45.929 --> 00:39:49.369 interesting enough. It's called First Aid. Yes. 00:39:49.889 --> 00:39:56.210 So in 1985, and I write about this extensively 00:39:56.210 --> 00:40:02.889 in my book, in 1985, when the band was literally 00:40:02.889 --> 00:40:06.110 only Jack Gracie, Patrick Dahlheimer and myself, 00:40:06.650 --> 00:40:09.130 and we played the middle school talent show, 00:40:11.289 --> 00:40:16.010 there's nothing like being that young and naive 00:40:16.010 --> 00:40:24.239 and utterly innocent. There couldn't be an ego, 00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:26.820 because we were scared to death to play in front 00:40:26.820 --> 00:40:32.920 of our entire student body. And then this incredible 00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:38.360 rise of teenage girls screaming. Do you hear 00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:42.239 at the Beatles concerts? There's just something 00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:45.420 about that. I just remember, I think Gracie was 00:40:45.420 --> 00:40:48.809 wearing this... really cool Benetton sweater 00:40:48.809 --> 00:40:52.630 that he had gotten. Patrick was dressed in like 00:40:52.630 --> 00:40:54.730 some, he had to own some super cool white t -shirt 00:40:54.730 --> 00:40:57.570 and like a, almost like a James Dean kind of 00:40:57.570 --> 00:41:00.869 effect with his blue jean jacket. And I, I had 00:41:00.869 --> 00:41:03.070 gone out and I bought, cause you know, Holland 00:41:03.070 --> 00:41:04.829 Oates I think at the time wore him, but like 00:41:04.829 --> 00:41:08.190 a skinny tie, you know, cause I thought that'd 00:41:08.190 --> 00:41:13.210 be really cool. So I had a skinny tie and we, 00:41:13.210 --> 00:41:18.050 we played two songs. We started the show, which 00:41:18.050 --> 00:41:22.429 was Jack Gracie's idea, with a U2 song called 00:41:22.429 --> 00:41:26.849 Like A Song. And it's roughly 149 beats per minute, 00:41:26.889 --> 00:41:30.929 which by the way is pretty smoking fast. And 00:41:30.929 --> 00:41:33.769 Gracie started the whole thing, like they said, 00:41:33.809 --> 00:41:36.969 ladies and gentlemen, first aid. And they parted 00:41:36.969 --> 00:41:38.570 the curtains, and we were just standing there, 00:41:38.570 --> 00:41:42.110 you know? And the very first thing the world 00:41:42.110 --> 00:41:44.210 ever heard from any of us was his kick drum. 00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:49.780 Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yo, so this this 00:41:49.780 --> 00:41:53.239 theme of Gracie starting off songs on drums started 00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:55.400 way back then, because like Pain Lies on the 00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:58.559 Riverside is a drum intro that that happened. 00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:00.800 So this started like from your first performance 00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:06.159 ever. Yeah. Wow. Also, people were asking about 00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:08.539 the book in the comments here. The book is not 00:42:08.539 --> 00:42:10.940 out yet. He's he has written the book. He is 00:42:10.940 --> 00:42:13.750 shopping the book. Is that fair enough, Chad?

00:42:14.030 --> 00:42:16.469 Yeah. That's a fair enough thing to say. I just 00:42:16.469 --> 00:42:20.469 finished my second draft. Actually, it's funny 00:42:20.469 --> 00:42:23.389 because that's also a little bit of part of the 00:42:23.389 --> 00:42:26.570 sober journey. When I wrote the first draft of 00:42:26.570 --> 00:42:30.530 the book, I was still drinking and I told all 00:42:30.530 --> 00:42:34.519 these like insane stories about, you know, As 00:42:34.519 --> 00:42:36.820 anybody can imagine a little of the, you know, 00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:38.780 you add millions of dollars into guys in their 00:42:38.780 --> 00:42:42.760 early 20s. It was pretty insane. Sure. And, uh, 00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:45.019 you know, so I tried to like write about it and 00:42:45.019 --> 00:42:47.340 try to remember the reason why it created their 00:42:47.340 --> 00:42:52.059 timeline of, of, uh, the chronology of the band, 00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:56.400 which is like 3000 separate line items was to 00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.420 spark my memory. So I could just remember what 00:42:58.420 --> 00:43:01.460 the hell to write about. And that includes like, 00:43:01.460 --> 00:43:06.980 uh, I went back to all this archival footage 00:43:06.980 --> 00:43:10.179 of news articles. You know, it's very interesting 00:43:10.179 --> 00:43:12.260 because most of live that was built was built 00:43:12.260 --> 00:43:14.880 in the time period pre -internet. So you had 00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.139 to go back and I had to use like, you know, like 00:43:17.139 --> 00:43:19.019 you talked about microfilm and all those things. 00:43:19.019 --> 00:43:22.000 So I got all the old articles on the band because 00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:24.900 it was, I never read that stuff at the time, 00:43:24.900 --> 00:43:27.019 you know, cause you didn't have a mobile phone 00:43:27.019 --> 00:43:28.679 and it wasn't supposed to on the internet when 00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:30.900 you left the town and they wrote an article about 00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:34.489 you, you never saw it. Right. We just left. So 00:43:34.489 --> 00:43:37.650 I wanted to read all that stuff and see what 00:43:37.650 --> 00:43:39.710 was going on. So anyway, my point was I wrote 00:43:39.710 --> 00:43:43.610 this first draft and kind of like laughingly 00:43:43.610 --> 00:43:47.190 wrote about really all my just like, I don't 00:43:47.190 --> 00:43:50.550 want to call it deplorable behavior, but what 00:43:50.550 --> 00:43:53.309 I would consider as a sober guy now unacceptable. 00:43:53.989 --> 00:43:56.789 And then I got sober and then I waited like, 00:43:56.809 --> 00:43:58.829 I don't know what it was almost a year before 00:43:58.829 --> 00:44:01.610 like revisiting a redraft. I needed time away 00:44:01.610 --> 00:44:05.489 from it. And I started reading it in order to 00:44:05.489 --> 00:44:10.210 revise. And I was like, yo, this is problematic 00:44:10.210 --> 00:44:14.150 behavior. I started making notes. And I swear 00:44:14.150 --> 00:44:16.809 to you that part of the cathartic process of 00:44:16.809 --> 00:44:18.429 doing that, I almost tell everybody, you ought 00:44:18.429 --> 00:44:22.630 to write down the story of your life. It suddenly 00:44:22.630 --> 00:44:25.590 hit me. I was like, wow, there are key relationships 00:44:25.590 --> 00:44:29.920 in my life that I've pushed away from me. Anybody 00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:31.820 that's been through the AA process knows that 00:44:31.820 --> 00:44:33.880 there's also, you know, part of that is like 00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:36.880 reconciliation and taking ownership for your 00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:40.000 flaws, your cracks, your crevices. And boy, I 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:45.579 made a list and I had tiers of like first offender, 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:48.159 like where I was the worst to, and I tried to 00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:50.300 call those people. And then I had a second tier 00:44:50.300 --> 00:44:51.860 and a third tier. And I'm actually over into 00:44:51.860 --> 00:44:54.440 the third tier, which even involves like, we 00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:57.320 had a manager for the gracious few. Oh my god, 00:44:57.420 --> 00:45:00.119 incredible lady named Deb Klein. She manages 00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:05.440 Melissa Atherage now. Just awesome lady. And 00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:09.519 I'm pretty sure I fired her by literally just 00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:15.480 ghosting her. Like, goodbye. Only a drunk would 00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:18.980 do that. Only an alcoholic, egomaniac, you know, 00:45:19.139 --> 00:45:21.800 self -serving, whatever guy would do something 00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:24.059 like that. So I had to call her up. And she said, 00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:26.300 you know, I never expected to hear from you again 00:45:26.300 --> 00:45:28.800 in my whole life. And I just told her, you know, 00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:30.139 I don't want anything out of the phone call. 00:45:30.219 --> 00:45:31.840 I just want to say, you know, like that was really 00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:35.099 a dick move. And I'm so sorry. I got to tell 00:45:35.099 --> 00:45:37.139 you, there's probably people out there actually 00:45:37.139 --> 00:45:39.639 know somebody that I know from our childhood 00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:41.539 wrote that I was like an asshole to somebody 00:45:41.539 --> 00:45:44.079 at a show. I don't want to say their names are 00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:47.599 out there, but I probably was, you know, that's 00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:51.559 the reality. And the only thing I can do to probably 00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:53.440 make most of those things better is to like heal 00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:56.059 myself and then just be a better person in general. 00:45:56.900 --> 00:46:00.699 Well said and well and way to take accountability 00:46:00.699 --> 00:46:04.679 for things. And that shows how kind of honest 00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:06.659 you're being right now. I had I saw that comment 00:46:06.659 --> 00:46:08.119 up there.

I'm like, I'm going to leave this. 00:46:08.250 --> 00:46:10.269 off because I don't want to bring up, you know, 00:46:10.349 --> 00:46:11.989 negative stuff to the show. And then you brought 00:46:11.989 --> 00:46:13.969 it up. So it just shows how much accountability 00:46:13.969 --> 00:46:16.289 you're taking for some of those. But I want I 00:46:16.289 --> 00:46:18.329 want to tell a cool story about that person. 00:46:18.329 --> 00:46:22.090 Screw it. I'll just say it now. So this the person's 00:46:22.090 --> 00:46:26.369 name is Katie Carlson. And if you ever watch 00:46:26.369 --> 00:46:30.530 WKRP in Cincinnati, there was the station manager 00:46:30.530 --> 00:46:34.110 was a guy named Arthur Carlson and her father 00:46:34.110 --> 00:46:38.340 was Art Carlson. And he lived in York, Pennsylvania. 00:46:38.679 --> 00:46:40.719 And that character on that show was actually 00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:43.460 based, well, was based on his name, not really 00:46:43.460 --> 00:46:47.139 on him as a person. But we played Katie Carlson's 00:46:47.139 --> 00:46:51.940 sweet 16 party. And I'm pretty sure Mr. Carlson 00:46:51.940 --> 00:46:54.940 is the guy that actually paid us to do the performance. 00:46:56.460 --> 00:47:00.179 And we were just public affection then. And I 00:47:00.179 --> 00:47:02.639 also remember that we used her little teenage 00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:06.210 bedroom as our dressing room. So I still have 00:47:06.210 --> 00:47:08.489 like really fond and sweet memories of these 00:47:08.489 --> 00:47:10.210 people too. I don't, I don't exactly know what 00:47:10.210 --> 00:47:12.869 I did to be an asshole, but oh my God, I hope 00:47:12.869 --> 00:47:15.849 that's not true, but it probably is. Well, and 00:47:15.849 --> 00:47:18.190 Katie is not with us anymore. Unfortunately. 00:47:18.190 --> 00:47:23.269 Holy shit. I didn't know that chat. Oh my God. 00:47:23.550 --> 00:47:28.530 Couple of years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Jody, Jody Bradford 00:47:28.530 --> 00:47:31.260 still communication through one once in a while. 00:47:31.420 --> 00:47:33.679 Jody Bradford was Katie's best friend back in 00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:36.099 those days. And I think they remain friends until 00:47:36.099 --> 00:47:39.280 she passed. But yeah. Oh, my God. Wow. Well, 00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:41.800 I was feeling bad before. Now I'm really down 00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:44.880 there. I'm sorry. Well, that's why I was brought 00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:48.400 up. Rest in peace. Yeah, I was respected. Yes. 00:47:49.659 --> 00:47:52.280 C .T. So getting back to that eighth grade town 00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:55.780 show. So how long before that did you pick up 00:47:55.780 --> 00:47:57.980 the guitar and kind of what made you do that? 00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:05.860 Well, I was 10 years old when Santa Claus, underneath 00:48:05.860 --> 00:48:09.219 the Christmas tree at my father's house, brought 00:48:09.219 --> 00:48:16.380 me a 1978 Gibson Les Paul Standard. And I had 00:48:16.380 --> 00:48:22.960 been asking Santa Claus for drums. And I didn't 00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:25.420 really feel... I liked Peter Chris from Kiss. 00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:30.190 But I did feel... Like really honored that like 00:48:30.190 --> 00:48:32.349 I had this like beautiful like you should have 00:48:32.349 --> 00:48:34.670 seen like how fancy this guitar looked I mean 00:48:34.670 --> 00:48:38.349 it was insane and that is not a starter guitar 00:48:38.349 --> 00:48:43.429 for anybody that You know knows anything about 00:48:43.429 --> 00:48:45.989 instruments. That's like a really advanced instrument 00:48:45.989 --> 00:48:48.889 So yeah, and my dad had always told me he said 00:48:48.889 --> 00:48:51.829 I I got you a serious guitar because I wanted 00:48:51.829 --> 00:48:54.590 you to be a serious guitarist a serious musician 00:48:54.590 --> 00:49:00.630 and I started taking lessons at some point after 00:49:00.630 --> 00:49:07.389 then, like Mrs. Epihimer was her name. And I 00:49:07.389 --> 00:49:09.389 quickly figured out that Mrs. Epihimer could 00:49:09.389 --> 00:49:11.210 teach me like Mary had a little lamb, but she 00:49:11.210 --> 00:49:14.769 couldn't teach me rock and roll songs. And so 00:49:14.769 --> 00:49:18.150 I enlisted the help of a man named Don Karn. 00:49:18.789 --> 00:49:22.349 And Don Karn was Chad, Patrick and I are middle 00:49:22.349 --> 00:49:25.119 school band instructor. And I started taking 00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:27.619 private guitar lessons from Mr. Karn after school 00:49:27.619 --> 00:49:30.400 hours at his apartment on Duke Street in York. 00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:34.780 And that is also the very first place that apartment 00:49:34.780 --> 00:49:37.179 is the very first place Chad Patrick and I ever 00:49:37.179 --> 00:49:41.079 played together. Oh, wow. Yep. That's true. Yeah, 00:49:41.179 --> 00:49:45.019 that's right. So we owe the world. You put up 00:49:45.019 --> 00:49:47.940 Jody's Jody Bradford's comment because she's 00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:52.840 she's watching chat. Yes, sir. Let's talk about 00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:57.139 Katie Carlson. so oh yeah thank you jody thank 00:49:57.139 --> 00:50:01.639 you jody hi god it shows you you know this is 00:50:01.639 --> 00:50:05.000 the problem with life everybody gets uh you know 00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:07.400 busy living life and and doing all this stuff 00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:11.139 and and life does fly by uh you know interesting 00:50:11.139 --> 00:50:15.260 enough i this is kind of like a running joke 00:50:15.260 --> 00:50:18.139 that's going on but i posted a couple weeks ago 00:50:18.139 --> 00:50:22.179 about a very uh dear friend of ours uh named 00:50:22.179 --> 00:50:25.139 Jimmy Lang that was involved with surf net and 00:50:25.139 --> 00:50:27.019 creating lives very first website and stuff. 00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:31.599 And Jimmy suffered a stroke while in Brazil. 00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:36.079 And Jimmy and I have a long history

of sharing 00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:38.320 just like really super funny things with each 00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:41.739 other. And so every year for my birthday, he 00:50:41.739 --> 00:50:47.940 sends me a picture of himself. And if I could 00:50:47.940 --> 00:50:50.920 take this computer and move right now, next to 00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:55.519 my, like literally my bedside stand facing me 00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:58.820 are two photographs of Jimmy. And I wake up every 00:50:58.820 --> 00:51:01.019 day and I think about the guy and I wish his 00:51:01.019 --> 00:51:04.659 health to get better and get well. And then just 00:51:04.659 --> 00:51:07.260 on like the health front, my sister -in -law 00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:11.500 had... stage five kidney failure. This is acute 00:51:11.500 --> 00:51:14.639 sudden kidney failure that we recognize now is 00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:17.500 chronic. And I would be remiss without saying 00:51:17.500 --> 00:51:21.639 that she has a GoFundMe page that's up. I would 00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:23.719 ask anybody, you know, we'll try and share it. 00:51:23.780 --> 00:51:26.159 I know I shared it on my Facebook page. And for 00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:28.000 all the life and this is Matt Gracie's wife. 00:51:28.699 --> 00:51:32.280 Yes. Thank you, Jeff. And your cousin. Well, 00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:36.199 of course. Your cousin's wife, yeah. Yeah, that 00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:42.000 too. And we'll post that link in the description 00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.920 of this episode after it airs for sure. Gentlemen, 00:51:45.940 --> 00:51:48.500 now that we got real sad for a second, let's 00:51:48.500 --> 00:51:51.880 get back to good times here and how you three 00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:54.900 started the band first aid and got to that talent 00:51:54.900 --> 00:51:56.280 show. Like, how did that come about? How did 00:51:56.280 --> 00:51:59.320 you guys know you played instruments and how 00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:01.269 did you guys get together? He just basically 00:52:01.269 --> 00:52:03.250 told you the story and Don Karn put us together 00:52:03.250 --> 00:52:05.909 as our music teacher. Oh, I thought, I thought 00:52:05.909 --> 00:52:07.889 that you guys just like practice there afterwards. 00:52:07.889 --> 00:52:09.929 I didn't realize like he set you up originally. 00:52:09.929 --> 00:52:11.610 I thought there was like, you guys went and practiced 00:52:11.610 --> 00:52:14.590 there afterwards. Okay. Nevermind that he basically 00:52:14.590 --> 00:52:16.929 knew I was playing drums and he was giving guitar 00:52:16.929 --> 00:52:19.269 lessons and bass lessons of Patrick and Chad. 00:52:19.269 --> 00:52:21.210 And he was like, you guys should play it. I mean, 00:52:21.210 --> 00:52:23.670 we knew each other. We were in the concert bands 00:52:23.670 --> 00:52:25.550 and stuff together. I played saxophone and Chad 00:52:25.550 --> 00:52:28.269 was playing trumpet. And I've always said Patrick 00:52:28.269 --> 00:52:31.130 is the most, talented musician in the band because 00:52:31.130 --> 00:52:34.230 he can play anything. So, but anyway, so Don 00:52:34.230 --> 00:52:36.389 Karn is the one who said, Hey man, you guys should 00:52:36.389 --> 00:52:38.349 be in a band together. That's, that's how we 00:52:38.349 --> 00:52:43.110 ended up in his house practicing. I too have 00:52:43.110 --> 00:52:46.929 ADHD Chad. So don't mind if things go over my 00:52:46.929 --> 00:52:51.159 head during the conversation. It's, it's bound 00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:52.920 to, it's bound to happen. All right. So, uh, 00:52:52.940 --> 00:52:55.599 shout out, Mr. Karn. Thank you for Aaron. She's 00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:57.260 Lee's on here. What's up, Aaron? He's saying 00:52:57.260 --> 00:52:59.619 Don Karn is retiring this year from at the end 00:52:59.619 --> 00:53:02.079 of the school year. Wow. Still teaching this 00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:04.880 gentleman. Retiring this year. That's amazing. 00:53:05.500 --> 00:53:12.599 I have several times, uh, The Academy of Music 00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:16.519 has a Teachers in Music Award, and I've nominated 00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:19.260 Don Karn several times. And I mean, obviously 00:53:19.260 --> 00:53:21.659 my nominations haven't gone through, but it'd 00:53:21.659 --> 00:53:23.800 be interesting if we get a write -in campaign 00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:29.059 for Don Karn. If anybody I know should have a 00:53:29.059 --> 00:53:31.579 Grammy Award, it should be Don. Oh, for sure. 00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:35.780 Absolutely. 100. And I'm sure the central... 00:53:37.389 --> 00:53:39.269 Pennsylvania rock and roll hall of fame has honored 00:53:39.269 --> 00:53:42.349 this gentleman. Remember the, the, the people 00:53:42.349 --> 00:53:44.969 we had on chat from earlier, they gave your band 00:53:44.969 --> 00:53:48.190 the, the award. They should have him. They should 00:53:48.190 --> 00:53:50.750 give him an award for sure. Oh, Don, absolutely. 00:53:51.130 --> 00:53:54.710 Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Taylor. So what were, I know 00:53:54.710 --> 00:53:57.730 you too was a big musical influence on not just 00:53:57.730 --> 00:53:59.550 you, but the whole band in general, but what 00:53:59.550 --> 00:54:01.829 were some of your personal musical influences 00:54:01.829 --> 00:54:06.349 when you were younger? pretty much steeped in 00:54:06.349 --> 00:54:09.829 what today you would call classic rock, but stuff 00:54:09.829 --> 00:54:13.769 that lean blues oriented. So I was the guy in 00:54:13.769 --> 00:54:17.989 the band listening to ZZ Top. I was listening 00:54:17.989 --> 00:54:22.929 to Cream. I loved Led Zeppelin. The Beatles and 00:54:22.929 --> 00:54:25.650 the Beach Boys probably even came somewhat a 00:54:25.650 --> 00:54:27.869 little bit later in life. Listen, oh my God, 00:54:27.929 --> 00:54:31.289 The Rolling Stones. The Stones are probably my 00:54:31.289 --> 00:54:41.570 favorite band. I was a strange guy. I loved the 00:54:41.570 --> 00:54:44.550 Motown

songs. I just couldn't get around the 00:54:44.550 --> 00:54:48.489 songwriting that was on most of the early Motown 00:54:48.489 --> 00:54:51.590 records. That was probably my mom's influence. 00:54:51.690 --> 00:54:55.630 She was really R &B heavy. My father's influence 00:54:55.630 --> 00:55:00.000 would have been blues, classic rock. I did listen 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:02.980 to some stuff that veered towards metal like 00:55:02.980 --> 00:55:08.000 I love ACDC that's like a really classic band 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:10.119 and what's funny is what I've learned over times 00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:12.440 is I always gravitated towards bands that had 00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:15.940 fantastic rhythm guitar players and it's weird 00:55:15.940 --> 00:55:17.639 because that's what I really consider myself 00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:20.739 as a rhythm guitar player. I mean I certainly 00:55:20.739 --> 00:55:22.920 can play leads that nobody else can play but 00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:26.570 it's just because I'm so Naturally awkward that 00:55:26.570 --> 00:55:28.429 somehow something that whatever comes out to 00:55:28.429 --> 00:55:30.409 me people go. Well, that's really hard or something 00:55:30.409 --> 00:55:33.650 But to me, it's it's very easy and very natural 00:55:33.650 --> 00:55:37.849 You consider yourself a rhythm guitarist. Yes 00:55:37.849 --> 00:55:41.989 for sure And first and foremost what I want to 00:55:41.989 --> 00:55:44.130 say is that the the reason why I would say that 00:55:44.130 --> 00:55:48.829 and I really focused a lot on this on The gracious 00:55:48.829 --> 00:55:51.150 few as part of the reason why we were brought 00:55:51.150 --> 00:55:56.050 in Shawn Hennessey was Just my forte has always 00:55:56.050 --> 00:55:59.309 been songwriting like that's where I I want to 00:55:59.309 --> 00:56:02.650 I want to Manifest the song and then I want to 00:56:02.650 --> 00:56:05.210 serve the song whatever that means. There's a 00:56:05.210 --> 00:56:09.329 great moment in the leukemia juice video Where 00:56:09.329 --> 00:56:11.929 I almost mistakenly play in a part where there's 00:56:11.929 --> 00:56:15.449 no guitar and I fortunately Like I just muted 00:56:15.449 --> 00:56:17.570 the guitar at the very last second. And if you 00:56:17.570 --> 00:56:20.369 watch feel like I'm smiling because I was like, 00:56:20.369 --> 00:56:22.389 oh, yeah, there's There's no guitar in there. 00:56:22.409 --> 00:56:24.670 I got to just chill out. But like, for example, 00:56:24.769 --> 00:56:27.449 it's like be self -serving, like or I'm sorry, 00:56:27.730 --> 00:56:31.510 serve the song. Don't be self -serving. So even 00:56:31.510 --> 00:56:34.010 if that meant don't play, that's the role I would 00:56:34.010 --> 00:56:38.230 take. Aha. Yes. Serving the music is the key. 00:56:39.570 --> 00:56:41.849 I want to get into the songwriting thing because 00:56:41.849 --> 00:56:44.710 and I also want to say that I think I was unfair 00:56:44.710 --> 00:56:47.670 to you in the past when I was kind of making 00:56:47.670 --> 00:56:52.179 some comments on this. Let's get into some of 00:56:52.179 --> 00:56:54.699 the songwriting for your earlier albums, like 00:56:54.699 --> 00:56:56.559 Mental Jewelry and Throwing Copper, and kind 00:56:56.559 --> 00:56:59.280 of walk us through the process on how that went. 00:57:00.460 --> 00:57:02.199 You know, if you want to start with a song or 00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:05.539 just kind of tell us, you know, on a, you know, 00:57:05.659 --> 00:57:07.199 if you want to go whole album, whatever, however 00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:10.739 you want to go about it. But let's dive into 00:57:10.739 --> 00:57:12.559 how you guys wrote some music back in the day. 00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:15.519 Well, I think where I would start is sort of 00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:18.510 an interesting thing. when we were still public 00:57:18.510 --> 00:57:23.349 affection and in high school, you know, we basically 00:57:23.349 --> 00:57:26.090 knew right away that if we were going to have 00:57:26.090 --> 00:57:30.489 a career as musicians, in particular as a band, 00:57:31.210 --> 00:57:33.369 that we were going to have to write original 00:57:33.369 --> 00:57:39.289 songs. And this is definitely a time period where 00:57:39.289 --> 00:57:43.170 almost all of the early ideas, you know, in Batch 00:57:43.170 --> 00:57:45.500 were coming out of Ed. he was just like writing 00:57:45.500 --> 00:57:48.320 song after song and we were trying to arrange 00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:52.420 them and trying to add our instruments into it 00:57:52.420 --> 00:57:58.619 and you know we all we didn't really say this 00:57:58.619 --> 00:58:01.219 publicly yet but we were all like you know we 00:58:01.219 --> 00:58:03.059 didn't want to go to college we wanted a career 00:58:03.059 --> 00:58:08.920 as a band we were loving making music and there 00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:13.300 was some stress because of that and like stress 00:58:13.420 --> 00:58:15.539 What I mean by stress is like, well, what are 00:58:15.539 --> 00:58:17.340 we gonna do for the rest of our lives? And like 00:58:17.340 --> 00:58:20.019 we won't we don't want to break this up Right, 00:58:20.019 --> 00:58:22.059 and we also didn't want to be forthright with 00:58:22.059 --> 00:58:24.360 our parents or even our peers our friends It 00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:27.019 was like a very closely held secret that this 00:58:27.019 --> 00:58:31.679 was our desire and so and had come to me in confidence 00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:35.880 at some point and said This is too much to put 00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:38.539 all on my shoulders like you you have to write 00:58:38.539 --> 00:58:41.260 to he's basically telling me step up to the plate 00:58:41.500 --> 00:58:43.980 Right. And I remember at the time being like, 00:58:43.980 --> 00:58:47.000 I don't know how to write a song. I'm not a songwriter. 00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:50.079 I don't even know, like, I don't even

know how 00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:54.059 you do what you do. I think I barely knew how 00:58:54.059 --> 00:58:55.820 to play the damn guitar at the time, let alone 00:58:55.820 --> 00:59:00.380 write a song. Right. And I mean, I think the 00:59:00.380 --> 00:59:02.300 very first example that you can find of something 00:59:02.300 --> 00:59:06.280 where something was birthed from me and came 00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:08.800 out and came into the world is a song on the 00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:10.840 death of a dictionary called Savior for a Day. 00:59:11.900 --> 00:59:13.980 Oddly, it's the very first song on the Death 00:59:13.980 --> 00:59:20.440 of a Dictionary. And we got in a room with this 00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:23.159 little guitar part. I had an A section, a B section, 00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:26.239 and something that felt like a chorus. And this 00:59:26.239 --> 00:59:32.860 was Chad's point earlier, just from that very 00:59:32.860 --> 00:59:37.900 de minimis, small idea, some confluence of chords 00:59:37.900 --> 00:59:41.320 that flowed one into the other. and we started 00:59:41.320 --> 00:59:45.360 to jam and we started to build. And it was obviously 00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:48.019 a song that was important enough that he came 00:59:48.019 --> 00:59:54.059 first on the cassette tape. And even then, I 00:59:54.059 --> 00:59:58.760 didn't realize that I was a songwriter. It was 00:59:58.760 --> 01:00:01.199 just like a band jam to me. I didn't recognize 01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:04.480 that that was a song. And then probably the most 01:00:04.480 --> 01:00:06.260 pivotal moment, and I know I've told this story 01:00:06.260 --> 01:00:09.239 before, but it's so important, is as we progressed 01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:13.880 as songwriters, I was in Chad Gracie's parents' 01:00:14.019 --> 01:00:18.199 garage on Newberry Street, and we had built this 01:00:18.199 --> 01:00:21.800 deck where we practiced. All the equipment was 01:00:21.800 --> 01:00:23.699 stored below the deck, the band practiced up 01:00:23.699 --> 01:00:27.820 on the deck, and I showed up to rehearsal early, 01:00:27.820 --> 01:00:31.289 and I was just playing two chords. I guess there's 01:00:31.289 --> 01:00:32.949 a passing chord technically in the middle, but 01:00:32.949 --> 01:00:36.289 essentially a two chord progression. It's just 01:00:36.289 --> 01:00:38.110 something I thought sounded neat. And I was playing 01:00:38.110 --> 01:00:40.570 it over and over again. And next thing you know, 01:00:40.590 --> 01:00:45.469 the garage door goes up and Ed walks in and I 01:00:45.469 --> 01:00:47.389 stopped playing to say hi. And he was like, no, 01:00:47.389 --> 01:00:51.789 no, no, keep playing that. And it eventually 01:00:51.789 --> 01:00:54.309 within probably 15 minutes turned into Operation 01:00:54.309 --> 01:00:59.250 Spirit. Wow. So like. Even then, I didn't know 01:00:59.250 --> 01:01:01.130 I was being a songwriter. I was just playing 01:01:01.130 --> 01:01:04.610 chords. So whatever. I was in touch with my instrument. 01:01:05.969 --> 01:01:09.469 I had done all the prep work. I cleared my head. 01:01:09.630 --> 01:01:12.190 I had done all these things to just be present 01:01:12.190 --> 01:01:15.309 at practice. And the chords just started flowing. 01:01:16.550 --> 01:01:20.309 And then Chad and Patrick showed up to start 01:01:20.309 --> 01:01:22.730 rehearsal. And rather than work on whatever else 01:01:22.730 --> 01:01:24.949 we had done, it was like, well, here's this brand 01:01:24.949 --> 01:01:27.960 new thing. There's suddenly some formation of 01:01:27.960 --> 01:01:29.679 what a verse sounded like, some formation of 01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:33.179 a chorus, and we put together all the parts. 01:01:33.880 --> 01:01:35.940 And I mean, honestly, with something like that, 01:01:35.940 --> 01:01:39.199 I would probably say from its inception in the 01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:43.119 beginning until it found some form, like what 01:01:43.119 --> 01:01:45.039 you hear it on the record was probably an hour 01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:48.840 max. That was one of the quick ones. Jam, jam, 01:01:48.840 --> 01:01:51.460 jam, and everything's coming through. And then 01:01:51.460 --> 01:01:53.960 this also tells you how much I didn't understand 01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:58.369 my role as a writer or a creator. So here we 01:01:58.369 --> 01:02:00.789 get this record deal. We get to go off to Milwaukee 01:02:00.789 --> 01:02:04.050 and record with Jerry Harrison. And I was coming 01:02:04.050 --> 01:02:06.329 up with a list of songs for Jerry that we would 01:02:06.329 --> 01:02:08.829 have to record. And our manager at the time, 01:02:08.969 --> 01:02:11.030 David Sestak, today's his birthday, by the way. 01:02:11.210 --> 01:02:15.150 Happy birthday, David. Happy birthday. But I 01:02:15.150 --> 01:02:17.829 had written this list and faxed it to him to 01:02:17.829 --> 01:02:19.769 just give you a by date and time and send him 01:02:19.769 --> 01:02:22.269 a fax to the list. And he called me immediately 01:02:22.269 --> 01:02:26.130 and was like, where's Operation Spirit? I said, 01:02:26.150 --> 01:02:27.630 oh, we don't want to record that song. I was 01:02:27.630 --> 01:02:32.690 like, that's old. Wow. Like, that's just too 01:02:32.690 --> 01:02:35.630 old. Like, too many people have heard that or 01:02:35.630 --> 01:02:42.309 something. And it was pretty crazy because I 01:02:42.309 --> 01:02:44.909 recognized then that, like, you know, and I fought 01:02:44.909 --> 01:02:47.250 that process. We played it for Jerry. Then we 01:02:47.250 --> 01:02:49.030 recorded it. And of course, it became the first 01:02:49.030 --> 01:02:55.400 single off of Mental Jewelry. Two for two. And 01:02:55.400 --> 01:02:57.519 then we'll go into like so even then, you know, 01:02:57.619 --> 01:03:00.860 like on mental jewelry I know tired to me is 01:03:00.860 --> 01:03:02.780 the song when I say there's like when I say I 01:03:02.780 -->

01:03:05.179 birthed it like It's a song that came through 01:03:05.179 --> 01:03:07.440 the universe into me. I believe it was already 01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:10.619 there I just I I prepared my spiritual antenna 01:03:10.619 --> 01:03:14.360 and it came to me I know like tired to me is 01:03:14.360 --> 01:03:16.400 on there. There's a couple brothers unaware would 01:03:16.400 --> 01:03:21.719 be another song Mental jewelry record good pain 01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:26.920 is another one And then, so as we were going 01:03:26.920 --> 01:03:32.380 forward, suddenly like this thing where Ed earnestly 01:03:32.380 --> 01:03:37.079 encouraged me, brought me along, just like I 01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:39.059 brought him along playing guitar, which is a 01:03:39.059 --> 01:03:43.159 weird thing. We were trading off ideas as innocent 01:03:43.159 --> 01:03:46.400 as could be. There was, as far as I'm concerned, 01:03:46.780 --> 01:03:50.000 There was no head and there was no tail. It was 01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:52.780 just all for one. And then Chad and Patrick, 01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:55.260 mind you, if you listen to Operation Spirit, 01:03:55.719 --> 01:03:58.500 what drives that song is the bass and drums. 01:03:58.900 --> 01:04:01.539 The guitar doesn't drive that song. I would even 01:04:01.539 --> 01:04:03.139 argue that the vocal doesn't drive the song. 01:04:03.179 --> 01:04:05.179 What drives the song forward and makes it interesting 01:04:05.179 --> 01:04:09.840 is what the bass and drums play. So this is what 01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:12.199 I was talking earlier about the collaborative, 01:04:12.539 --> 01:04:14.940 right? That's what was so special. I'm still 01:04:14.940 --> 01:04:17.599 telling you, Had it just been Ed and I in the 01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:19.599 room and we finished, you know, writing what 01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:21.800 you consider is the foundational elements of 01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:23.460 the song and Chad and Patrick hadn't played on 01:04:23.460 --> 01:04:25.059 it. I'm telling you right now, it's not a hit 01:04:25.059 --> 01:04:28.260 song. Yeah. And then, but Operation Spirit did 01:04:28.260 --> 01:04:31.500 become a hit. Buzz Bin, MTV Buzz Bin added it 01:04:31.500 --> 01:04:36.699 into Rotation. And, you know, suddenly, you know, 01:04:36.699 --> 01:04:40.460 we were on 120 minutes and the band got global 01:04:40.460 --> 01:04:44.840 recognition off of that first single. And... 01:04:44.590 --> 01:04:47.769 There starts the problem in our band, right? 01:04:48.090 --> 01:04:51.170 I had an outside, a very famous Grammy award 01:04:51.170 --> 01:04:54.869 -winning producer that said to me, the problem 01:04:54.869 --> 01:04:57.670 with live is that you wrote many of the seminal 01:04:57.670 --> 01:05:01.610 songs. And I said, well, no, we worked as a collective 01:05:01.610 --> 01:05:03.909 on all those things. I did it. And he said, well, 01:05:03.949 --> 01:05:06.070 no, no, no. I don't mean it like that. But imagine

01:05:06.070 --> 01:05:10.489 if it's not live and it's Nirvana. And Dave Grohl 01:05:10.489 --> 01:05:14.429 writes Smells Like Teen Spirit. How different 01:05:14.429 --> 01:05:17.510 is the feeling that band Yeah, like a totally 01:05:17.510 --> 01:05:20.869 different band. It's not Kurt Cobain's band where 01:05:20.869 --> 01:05:23.070 he presented his songs and then they build arrangements 01:05:23.070 --> 01:05:26.230 around it Well, I did I was a teenager. I mean, 01:05:26.269 --> 01:05:28.289 why don't we were 18 19 year old kids? I didn't 01:05:28.289 --> 01:05:32.369 know shit. I didn't know anything and Then the 01:05:32.369 --> 01:05:35.730 next album right going forward the next album 01:05:35.730 --> 01:05:41.769 I was living at an apartment in York with my 01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:45.320 soon -to -be bride like I know we were engaged 01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:50.559 and I'm not joking I wrote dang you know and 01:05:50.559 --> 01:05:54.460 I like stopped and I was like Holy shit. That's 01:05:54.460 --> 01:05:57.920 a hit. I've never felt like anything like that 01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:00.840 in my life I'd like literally my wife was just 01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:02.340 getting out of the shower to like get ready to 01:06:02.340 --> 01:06:04.579 go to work and I walked in I was like I gotta 01:06:04.579 --> 01:06:07.619 go I'm driving to Lancaster. I'm driving to Ed's 01:06:07.619 --> 01:06:10.420 house right now and remember back then I didn't 01:06:10.420 --> 01:06:13.219 even I had the most basic tape recorder to hit 01:06:13.219 --> 01:06:15.900 record, but today you would just record it on 01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:19.320 an iPhone. What I was fearful of was that I would 01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:23.179 forget it. That it would just get lost in the 01:06:23.179 --> 01:06:25.380 ether. So the whole drive, you know, it takes 01:06:25.380 --> 01:06:27.619 like 30 or 40 minutes. It probably only took 01:06:27.619 --> 01:06:29.719 me 20 minutes on that day to get from York to 01:06:29.719 --> 01:06:33.340 Lancaster. And the whole time I'm singing in 01:06:33.340 --> 01:06:38.769 my head. Don't forget that. Don't forget it. 01:06:38.769 --> 01:06:40.929 Don't forget. I'd stuff my guitar and I'm not 01:06:40.929 --> 01:06:43.369 Ed at the time had an apartment in a barn. It 01:06:43.369 --> 01:06:48.050 was like a lower four of a barn. It's like, I 01:06:48.050 --> 01:06:52.429 don't know, 10 a .m. Like opens the door. I think 01:06:52.429 --> 01:06:54.989 he was in his boxer shorts. He's like, what do 01:06:54.989 --> 01:06:59.030 you want? I'm like, dude, listen to this. And 01:06:59.030 --> 01:07:02.659 I'm not joking. It's the only song in life's 01:07:02.659 --> 01:07:04.340 history where he had grabbed his guitar and he 01:07:04.340 --> 01:07:06.320 was sitting directly across from me and I played 01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:14.840 And he went wrong He hit the next chord I literally 01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:17.440 played the B minor 7 not to get into the music 01:07:17.440 --> 01:07:21.139 thing and then we both Like magically hit the 01:07:21.139 --> 01:07:23.139 C chord right at the back end of the thing and 01:07:23.139 --> 01:07:25.659 it was like, you know I don't know. What are 01:07:25.659 --> 01:07:27.880 those like teenage kid movies where you're like? 01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:34.579 Or do we just become best friends? Yeah I Tell 01:07:34.579 --> 01:07:37.260 you we fucking knew in the moment like we were 01:07:37.260 --> 01:07:40.760 like, holy shit. Like don't forget this Ed started 01:07:40.760 --> 01:07:44.860 writing lyrics so fast like almost to this day 01:07:44.860 --> 01:07:50.699 what what is there and then We we started to 01:07:50.699 --> 01:07:53.619 write and it was Ed's idea the progression that 01:07:53.619 --> 01:07:56.380 goes into the that today we would call a pre 01:07:56.380 --> 01:07:59.960 -chorus And I didn't even look at his hand to 01:07:59.960 --> 01:08:01.719 see what chords he was playing, but I just started 01:08:01.719 --> 01:08:04.159 playing automatically like the rising guitar 01:08:04.159 --> 01:08:10.440 part. I'm like, we hit a thing. I was like, we're 01:08:10.440 --> 01:08:14.119 right there. And then it was like chorus instantly. 01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:17.680 I would probably say it was an hour process, 01:08:18.079 --> 01:08:21.180 front to back. Like I have chills all over me 01:08:21.180 --> 01:08:24.680 right now remembering doing it. It was so magical. 01:08:25.340 --> 01:08:28.270 It was insane. And then of course then it's like, 01:08:28.329 --> 01:08:30.609 you know, call the boys, get the boys in the, 01:08:30.670 --> 01:08:32.710 you know, you hear all these stories about, you 01:08:32.710 --> 01:08:35.770 know, guys saying, Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young 01:08:35.770 --> 01:08:38.170 or whatever, you know, they wrote Ohio wherever 01:08:38.170 --> 01:08:40.949 they're like, book the studio. Well, we didn't 01:08:40.949 --> 01:08:42.970 have the money to do that, but it was like, call 01:08:42.970 --> 01:08:45.470 the guys, like get them in the rehearsal room. 01:08:45.810 --> 01:08:48.510 We got to put this together, we knew. And then 01:08:48.510 --> 01:08:52.310 of course for live. The record label I didn't 01:08:52.310 --> 01:08:54.449 pick the singles the record label was like well 01:08:54.449 --> 01:08:56.250 selling the drums the first single on throwing 01:08:56.250 --> 01:08:59.449 copper And it went straight up the charts and 01:08:59.449 --> 01:09:02.850 it went to number one. So now I'm now I'm three 01:09:02.850 --> 01:09:07.050 for three Yeah, Savior for a day. I got operations 01:09:07.050 --> 01:09:08.810 beer. I got selling in a drama. We're creating 01:09:08.810 --> 01:09:12.029 a trend and Then we complete the trend of course 01:09:12.029 --> 01:09:15.289 with Likini's juice and secrets of Mahdi So and 01:09:15.289 --> 01:09:17.850 that song debuted at number one the album debuted 01:09:17.850 --> 01:09:20.890

at number one we, you know, we launched the whole 01:09:20.890 --> 01:09:22.989 record with Saturday Night Live, all those things. 01:09:23.069 --> 01:09:28.689 Well, in my, there are no, I gotta stay humble 01:09:28.689 --> 01:09:31.170 to the whole process because I'm just one little 01:09:31.170 --> 01:09:33.810 tiny piece of it. But like the band's career 01:09:33.810 --> 01:09:35.810 arc is a totally different career arc without 01:09:35.810 --> 01:09:39.630 those first seminal songs. Yes. That's true. 01:09:40.029 --> 01:09:44.130 Yes. And that was, I've spoken to Chad Gracie 01:09:44.130 --> 01:09:47.029 about this a bunch of times, like, That beginning 01:09:47.029 --> 01:09:50.170 of selling the drama is so iconic. Of course, 01:09:50.170 --> 01:09:52.369 it's not the whole song, but it's such a huge 01:09:52.369 --> 01:09:55.449 part of that song that to me who comes up with 01:09:55.449 --> 01:09:58.890 that part is the songwriter. And then when you 01:09:58.890 --> 01:10:01.350 describe the rest of it, it does seem very collaborative 01:10:01.350 --> 01:10:04.050 between you and Ed getting the initial part down 01:10:04.050 --> 01:10:06.050 and then the other two guys coming in the end 01:10:06.050 --> 01:10:08.630 and really getting it, you know, fleshed out 01:10:08.630 --> 01:10:12.109 and made into a complete song. One of the things 01:10:12.109 --> 01:10:15.630 about that process is I was concerned about we. 01:10:15.760 --> 01:10:20.880 W -E. Always. That's the we. What does the band 01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:23.180 do? How does the band sound? How do we bring 01:10:23.180 --> 01:10:25.800 this together? And then, of course, on the Throwing 01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:29.060 Copper record, that's an interesting record because 01:10:29.060 --> 01:10:33.500 the iconic show opener, album opener is Damanata 01:10:33.500 --> 01:10:38.640 Creek. And that song came about. We had rented 01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:44.260 this rehearsal space in downtown Lancaster. It 01:10:44.260 --> 01:10:50.680 was on the second floor above a little, a tiny 01:10:50.680 --> 01:10:55.039 little futon shop that today is a coffee shop. 01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:57.479 And I'm sure that many of the people that go 01:10:57.479 --> 01:10:59.439 into the coffee shop have no idea that most of 01:10:59.439 --> 01:11:01.479 the songs for Throwing Copper were put together 01:11:01.479 --> 01:11:05.720 there. But Ed told me that there was a Sunoco 01:11:05.720 --> 01:11:07.800 station, like Caddy Corner, kind of from the 01:11:07.800 --> 01:11:10.359 rehearsal space in downtown Lancaster. And he 01:11:10.359 --> 01:11:12.840 said that he was going to go get a gallon of 01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:18.529 water. And I just bought this brand new Fender 01:11:18.529 --> 01:11:21.529 Super Reverb amp, and I turned on the tremolo 01:11:21.529 --> 01:11:24.010 and the reverb like really high, and I started 01:11:24.010 --> 01:11:28.170 to play Damn It Otter Creek. And the weird thing 01:11:28.170 --> 01:11:30.670 is I had dreamt the song Damn It Otter Creek. 01:11:30.829 --> 01:11:34.890 I had a dream the night before, and I was standing 01:11:34.890 --> 01:11:37.489 underneath power lines, like those high tension 01:11:37.489 --> 01:11:40.289 power cables. And if anybody that's ever done 01:11:40.289 --> 01:11:42.359 that, you can actually hear them. and they make 01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:45.539 like a really eerie noise that it's like a low 01:11:45.539 --> 01:11:51.859 buzzing sound and it's almost a hum and I was 01:11:51.859 --> 01:11:59.319 standing below that and in the dream I heard 01:11:59.319 --> 01:12:05.140 the beginning of our concert not a wow and like 01:12:05.140 --> 01:12:09.220 there was this big ominous like almost like thunderstorm 01:12:09.220 --> 01:12:12.789 that was coming Yeah, and if you know anything 01:12:12.789 --> 01:12:16.130 about live we we grew up sort of next door to 01:12:16.130 --> 01:12:20.090 Three Mile Island and So in the dream I was standing 01:12:20.090 --> 01:12:22.350 at this place called Rocky Ridge State Park and 01:12:22.350 --> 01:12:24.250 you could see in the distance Three Mile Island 01:12:24.250 --> 01:12:25.869 and I was standing underneath the power lines. 01:12:25.930 --> 01:12:29.689 That's what the dream was So in the room now, 01:12:29.689 --> 01:12:32.970 you know next day I'm remembering this dream 01:12:32.970 --> 01:12:35.850 and I'm like I gotta I gotta tap back into that 01:12:36.189 --> 01:12:37.949 It's not something I could have done with Ed 01:12:37.949 --> 01:12:40.510 standing in the room. So when he excused himself, 01:12:41.210 --> 01:12:45.470 I started to find the note. That you heard. Yeah, 01:12:45.590 --> 01:12:50.210 just a single note. And that was a B on my guitar. 01:12:50.369 --> 01:12:52.890 And I held the chord. I just started mashing 01:12:52.890 --> 01:12:56.569 my fingers, just moving them. And it was going... 01:12:56.569 --> 01:12:59.829 And I was like, that's the sound. Now I was like, 01:12:59.909 --> 01:13:03.229 now what's the song? And then I started to play 01:13:03.229 --> 01:13:06.859 those chords. And I did that for probably about 01:13:06.859 --> 01:13:10.140 10 minutes. Again, like thinking, oh my God, 01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:13.300 you'll forget this dummy. Now at this time, fortunately 01:13:13.300 --> 01:13:16.079 we had a DAT player and a digital audio tape 01:13:16.079 --> 01:13:18.680 and we were recording everything. So this is 01:13:18.680 --> 01:13:22.539 actually all recorded. And next thing you know, 01:13:23.100 --> 01:13:25.600 Ed had never left. He was sitting in the stairwell 01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:30.600 listening to me playing and he was writing. And 01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:34.850 he walked in the room and... He like there was 01:13:34.850 --> 01:13:38.750 this little harmonica microphone and he picked 01:13:38.750 --> 01:13:44.630 it up and it was just distorted I was like, oh 01:13:44.630 --> 01:13:51.409 yeah

On to something else there. I fucking knew 01:13:51.409 --> 01:13:54.250 instantly. I was like this is it and then but 01:13:54.250 --> 01:13:57.060 what's interesting so We worked on that song 01:13:57.060 --> 01:13:59.380 and we created Ed and I created the architecture 01:13:59.380 --> 01:14:01.140 where it kept on going faster and faster and 01:14:01.140 --> 01:14:03.939 faster and faster and part of that was I Was 01:14:03.939 --> 01:14:07.060 grabbing the speed of the vibrato on my amp and 01:14:07.060 --> 01:14:09.539 making it go faster and faster So it was like 01:14:09.539 --> 01:14:14.539 by the end and then we got done writing that 01:14:14.539 --> 01:14:18.819 and then Ed said Okay, this is all about a band 01:14:18.819 --> 01:14:20.699 performance. There aren't enough chords and it's 01:14:20.699 --> 01:14:23.399 not complex enough. We it has to be a band performance 01:14:24.060 --> 01:14:27.500 So we showed it to Ed, or I'm sorry, to Patrick 01:14:27.500 --> 01:14:32.579 and to Chad one time. And they played gently 01:14:32.579 --> 01:14:35.319 through it, and we got done in the rehearsals, 01:14:35.399 --> 01:14:37.859 and we said, we're never playing that again until 01:14:37.859 --> 01:14:41.899 we're in the recording studio. Never. So what 01:14:41.899 --> 01:14:44.560 you hear on the Throwing Copper recording is 01:14:44.560 --> 01:14:48.420 the very first time that the band actually committed 01:14:48.420 --> 01:14:51.380 fully to playing the song. And it's captured 01:14:51.380 --> 01:14:54.800 on tape. And Gracie tried at, if you listen, 01:14:54.859 --> 01:14:57.340 the very end of the song, he technically misses 01:14:57.340 --> 01:15:03.399 a kick drum beat. And he was like, I can't believe 01:15:03.399 --> 01:15:06.140 I fucked it up. I messed up the very end of the 01:15:06.140 --> 01:15:08.539 song. Like we played it perfectly. And Gracie 01:15:08.539 --> 01:15:10.960 said, you know, basically into Jerry Harrison 01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:12.840 and Lou Giordano that was engineering, he was 01:15:12.840 --> 01:15:15.239 like, give us another take. And Jerry Harrison 01:15:15.239 --> 01:15:19.000 walked in the room. He said, no way, no way. 01:15:19.199 --> 01:15:23.810 We'll never get it better. And so those are, 01:15:23.909 --> 01:15:26.489 like, that's the magic. So when we were talking 01:15:26.489 --> 01:15:29.489 about the collaboration, like, honestly, other 01:15:29.489 --> 01:15:32.310 than the architecture that Gracie was going to 01:15:32.310 --> 01:15:35.170 go faster, and that Patrick understood where 01:15:35.170 --> 01:15:38.250 the chord changes were, we left it to the whole, 01:15:38.409 --> 01:15:41.930 to the body. Yeah. And someone was asking. And 01:15:41.930 --> 01:15:44.909 you get that. Yeah, someone was asking my process 01:15:44.909 --> 01:15:47.890 for that song. My inspiration for that song was 01:15:47.890 --> 01:15:51.949 the song Exit by U2 from the Joshua Tree. That 01:15:51.949 --> 01:15:54.909 song down on a creek reminds me at least of exit 01:15:54.909 --> 01:15:57.310 If you listen to go back and listen to that song 01:15:57.310 --> 01:16:00.510 the way to Larry plays that my humble bias That's 01:16:00.510 --> 01:16:03.050 kind of what I was emulating and then the the 01:16:03.050 --> 01:16:05.789 beginning kick drum beats where it's all distorted 01:16:05.789 --> 01:16:10.510 and big big delays that was from the beginning 01:16:10.510 --> 01:16:13.430 of act on baby remember we're sitting in the 01:16:13.430 --> 01:16:15.789 Super high sitting in the fucking conference 01:16:15.789 --> 01:16:19.130 room in in England act on baby for the first 01:16:19.130 --> 01:16:21.640 time because we got super high. We were driving 01:16:21.640 --> 01:16:23.699 around England or driving around London with 01:16:23.699 --> 01:16:27.239 a record company guy, Toby. And we all ate hash 01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:29.979 and got super high. Yeah. We ended up back at 01:16:29.979 --> 01:16:31.739 the record company's office and we're sitting 01:16:31.739 --> 01:16:33.319 in this room. They just put us in the room. They 01:16:33.319 --> 01:16:35.079 knew we're all shit. We're all fucking super 01:16:35.079 --> 01:16:37.319 high. We're just like tripping out just laughing. 01:16:37.800 --> 01:16:39.640 And they were like, put the kids away. Yeah. 01:16:39.760 --> 01:16:42.260 And they brought in, they brought in copies to 01:16:42.260 --> 01:16:44.920 each of us of Act on Baby. And it was just out 01:16:44.920 --> 01:16:47.000 or coming out, wouldn't out yet. I don't, I can't 01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:50.649 remember. But and so I was like oh fuck yeah 01:16:50.649 --> 01:16:52.750 so they give a CD so I went up to the stereo 01:16:52.750 --> 01:16:58.289 equipment and I put mine in and it's like and 01:16:58.289 --> 01:17:01.930 I was like why are Larry's drums disordered this 01:17:01.930 --> 01:17:04.829 is fucked up give me yours mine's fucked up so 01:17:04.829 --> 01:17:06.689 I put in someone else's but yours is fucked up 01:17:06.689 --> 01:17:08.630 too ended up going through all four of them and 01:17:08.630 --> 01:17:10.430 we're like oh shit this must be how they start 01:17:10.430 --> 01:17:14.329 the record how funny but that that's what inspired 01:17:14.329 --> 01:17:16.409 the the drum hits and like I wanted it to sound 01:17:16.409 --> 01:17:19.250 like that and then the song exit is my inspiration 01:17:19.250 --> 01:17:23.529 for the whole song. Just saying as a fan of your 01:17:23.529 --> 01:17:25.829 guys music, like these stories are like giving 01:17:25.829 --> 01:17:30.229 me chills for one. But two, it just it's so sad 01:17:30.229 --> 01:17:33.510 that you guys were having so much magic in a 01:17:33.510 --> 01:17:36.569 room together making this fucking music. And 01:17:36.569 --> 01:17:39.010 like now we're here and we and we don't have 01:17:39.010 --> 01:17:42.069 you guys doing that. Like it's it's just crazy.

01:17:43.069 --> 01:17:46.029 Oh, we haven't done it for. Well, other than 01:17:46.029 --> 01:17:47.970 the turn and the gracious few, we haven't done 01:17:47.970 --> 01:17:51.550 this for forever with with live. Right. We did 01:17:51.550 --> 01:17:54.050 a little bit on we did get in a room for birds 01:17:54.050 --> 01:17:56.710 of prey and write some songs kind of the old 01:17:56.710 --> 01:17:59.470 way. I mean, and there's a couple of bangers 01:17:59.470 --> 01:18:03.189 on there. Yeah. Gee, I always think that that's 01:18:03.189 --> 01:18:06.270 a Chad Taylor song, the second song off of was 01:18:06.270 --> 01:18:08.729 she one of yours? No, I wasn't. I think I wrote 01:18:08.729 --> 01:18:11.970 like I do. Yeah, like a lighthouse for sure. 01:18:12.130 --> 01:18:16.010 Lighthouse for sure. Yeah. Only said she because 01:18:16.010 --> 01:18:18.390 it's like such a rocking song on that album and 01:18:18.390 --> 01:18:20.449 I just didn't think Ed was like kind of doing 01:18:20.449 --> 01:18:22.890 stuff No, but listen it can write shit out of 01:18:22.890 --> 01:18:24.609 a rock song. Are you kidding me? The opening 01:18:24.609 --> 01:18:27.989 riff to was simple Creed I mean man, that's fucking 01:18:27.989 --> 01:18:30.890 I still play that every time it the two Ed songs 01:18:30.890 --> 01:18:33.489 I most consistently pick up my guitar and play 01:18:33.489 --> 01:18:38.909 are the is mirror song which is in my as a fellow 01:18:38.909 --> 01:18:42.350 songwriter I think is Ed's pan ultimate very 01:18:42.350 --> 01:18:46.869 best songwriter's song, just because of chordal 01:18:46.869 --> 01:18:48.829 structure, melody, all those things that come 01:18:48.829 --> 01:18:51.770 together. And then, you know, I always play the 01:18:51.770 --> 01:18:54.449 riff to Simple Creed. It's just, it's, it's freaking 01:18:54.449 --> 01:18:57.550 awesome. Oh, you're blowing my mind, dude. I 01:18:57.550 --> 01:18:59.810 could have swore Simple Creed was a Chad Taylor 01:18:59.810 --> 01:19:04.390 riff. So that's, wow. I wish I wish that. I think 01:19:04.390 --> 01:19:07.350 that's my point is like, it would come from all, 01:19:07.369 --> 01:19:11.100 I mean, one of my favorite live songs is Grey's. 01:19:11.380 --> 01:19:14.199 I mean, Ed wrote that. I mean, you know, or Gas 01:19:14.199 --> 01:19:16.579 Ed Goes West. That's an awesome song that Ed 01:19:16.579 --> 01:19:19.260 brought in, like rocks something incredible. 01:19:20.399 --> 01:19:23.840 So, and you know, also in live, one of the things 01:19:23.840 --> 01:19:26.000 that, you know, I mean, he's not here on the 01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:28.439 podcast, but it has to be, you know, represented 01:19:28.439 --> 01:19:31.460 is what Patrick would bring in. The magic to 01:19:31.460 --> 01:19:35.239 those records was that you really had three initiators 01:19:35.239 --> 01:19:38.829 of ideas. in Ed, myself, and Patrick. So like, 01:19:38.890 --> 01:19:44.210 for example, on Throwing

Copper, you've got Pillar 01:19:44.210 --> 01:19:48.250 of Davidson, which is perhaps one of the band's 01:19:48.250 --> 01:19:53.310 very best all -time songs. Beautiful. And what 01:19:53.310 --> 01:19:55.789 I'll tell you about that that's kind of fun, 01:19:57.850 --> 01:20:01.529 Ed and I, Ed encouraging more songs, more writing. 01:20:01.819 --> 01:20:03.899 said, you know, we got to get a song from Patrick 01:20:03.899 --> 01:20:08.260 on here. Patrick had contributed Libra to the 01:20:08.260 --> 01:20:13.439 death of a dictionary. Kind of brain farting 01:20:13.439 --> 01:20:17.279 around mental jewelry right now. But he had written 01:20:17.279 --> 01:20:21.199 songs that were really moving. And Ed said, you 01:20:21.199 --> 01:20:23.739 know, we're missing that for this album. We need 01:20:23.739 --> 01:20:27.479 the classic Patrick song. And Patrick was Waterboy 01:20:27.479 --> 01:20:29.260 Patrick off mental jewelry. I'm sorry to interrupt 01:20:29.260 --> 01:20:31.739 you, Chad Waterboy. That seems like a base heavy 01:20:31.739 --> 01:20:35.260 song. Hey, John, we're getting a lot of comments 01:20:35.260 --> 01:20:37.939 and now my mom's writing me the screen creeps 01:20:37.939 --> 01:20:41.359 keeps freezing. So I don't know if I saw some 01:20:41.359 --> 01:20:43.779 of those, too. It seems good on my end. I'm hoping 01:20:43.779 --> 01:20:46.199 that the replay goes out fine. But if not, I 01:20:46.199 --> 01:20:49.079 definitely have its recording. So if there was 01:20:49.079 --> 01:20:51.560 something going on, I'll be able to put up. We 01:20:51.560 --> 01:20:55.659 could be crashing the system. I think so, for 01:20:55.659 --> 01:21:01.979 sure. TBD came from Patrick's base idea too, 01:21:02.100 --> 01:21:07.380 right? Yeah, it's stunning. And I think this 01:21:07.380 --> 01:21:09.739 is one of the things that when we talk about 01:21:09.739 --> 01:21:12.619 the four magic ingredients going in, creating 01:21:12.619 --> 01:21:18.720 the cake, it's okay. So single wise, I talked 01:21:18.720 --> 01:21:20.939 about the things I talked about, but... a lot 01:21:20.939 --> 01:21:26.100 of like the more in depth songs, you know, Patrick 01:21:26.100 --> 01:21:29.560 wrote super duper emotional stuff and like America 01:21:29.560 --> 01:21:33.380 on the secrets of body, which is like also that's 01:21:33.380 --> 01:21:35.060 a guitar riff that like I pick up and I play 01:21:35.060 --> 01:21:36.939 all the time. But Patrick wrote all of that. 01:21:36.979 --> 01:21:41.140 I mean, that's his birthing. That's at some point 01:21:41.140 --> 01:21:44.819 it turns into this like strangeness of like, 01:21:44.979 --> 01:21:48.779 well, then why would you turn that off? Right. 01:21:48.840 --> 01:21:51.539 Even I don't know that. Why would you stop that? 01:21:53.920 --> 01:21:57.460 It's absolutely crazy to me. Like, and if it's 01:21:57.460 --> 01:21:59.619 if it's because like you're like, because if 01:21:59.619 --> 01:22:01.119 you're saying in an interview, like, yeah, so 01:22:01.119 --> 01:22:03.319 I wrote like selling the drama, you're just saying 01:22:03.319 --> 01:22:05.220 it from like, you're not like getting into the 01:22:05.220 --> 01:22:07.300 nitty gritty. Like, well, I wrote this part and 01:22:07.300 --> 01:22:08.899 then Ed came in and wrote that you're just talking 01:22:08.899 --> 01:22:11.500 about generalities. Yeah. And John, you're using 01:22:11.500 --> 01:22:13.739 words that I wouldn't say. I would say that I 01:22:13.739 --> 01:22:16.050 birthed. that I brought that into the universe. 01:22:16.229 --> 01:22:19.470 I never say I wrote it. We wrote it. We, the 01:22:19.470 --> 01:22:21.550 collective. The only reason why I ever want to 01:22:21.550 --> 01:22:26.770 say that is because all four guys in the band 01:22:26.770 --> 01:22:31.069 were so integral to the process. You know, you 01:22:31.069 --> 01:22:34.710 don't get really one without the other. And this 01:22:34.710 --> 01:22:37.750 is, you know, so Peter Friedman passed away. 01:22:37.810 --> 01:22:39.989 That was our manager for anybody that doesn't 01:22:39.989 --> 01:22:44.840 know. He passed away in 2003. And that was, I 01:22:44.840 --> 01:22:47.800 think for me spiritually, the beginning and the 01:22:47.800 --> 01:22:53.619 end, which is an awfully long time ago. But we 01:22:53.619 --> 01:22:57.659 fumbled that as a group of young men and our 01:22:57.659 --> 01:23:01.600 leadership from a management standpoint. Basically, 01:23:01.880 --> 01:23:04.520 when Peter had his funeral, first of all, we 01:23:04.520 --> 01:23:07.939 didn't know he was sick. And then he suddenly 01:23:07.939 --> 01:23:13.500 and tragically died. Rather than saying to the 01:23:13.500 --> 01:23:16.680 band, hey, let's cancel the tour. How about some 01:23:16.680 --> 01:23:21.239 therapy? Time for grieving, all those things. 01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:25.119 While everybody was at Peter's memorial service 01:23:25.119 --> 01:23:26.920 in Lancaster, because he happened to be from 01:23:26.920 --> 01:23:29.819 Lancaster. Live was literally halfway around 01:23:29.819 --> 01:23:33.140 the world on stage in Australia. And we never 01:23:33.140 --> 01:23:37.720 took a moment to pause and say, what does this 01:23:37.720 --> 01:23:40.779 mean for us? And then the whole architecture 01:23:40.779 --> 01:23:43.460 of our leadership, we had David Sestek and Peter 01:23:43.460 --> 01:23:46.689 Freeman, which were very much. They balanced 01:23:46.689 --> 01:23:49.470 each other. Sestek was so obsessed with the art. 01:23:49.890 --> 01:23:52.390 He wanted to make sure every font was correct 01:23:52.390 --> 01:23:55.569 and every picture of the band was crystal clear 01:23:55.569 --> 01:23:57.789 or even not crystal clear, whatever it was, to 01:23:57.789 --> 01:24:00.869 keep those brand standards there. And then Peter 01:24:00.869 --> 01:24:03.109 was more administrative. He was worried about

01:24:03.109 --> 01:24:06.149 the recording contracts, record promotion, all 01:24:06.149 --> 01:24:08.970 those things. And so I really do believe that 01:24:08.970 --> 01:24:11.050 we had some sort of super team back then. And 01:24:11.050 --> 01:24:14.899 they managed us from death of a dictionary all 01:24:14.899 --> 01:24:17.520 the way into, I actually think, a little bit 01:24:17.520 --> 01:24:22.819 of birds of prey. And then Peter died and then 01:24:22.819 --> 01:24:26.279 Ed suggested this man, Gary Kerfirst, who was 01:24:26.279 --> 01:24:28.979 our label president, become our manager, the 01:24:28.979 --> 01:24:32.159 band's manager. And anybody that's a lawyer out 01:24:32.159 --> 01:24:33.920 there instantly goes, well, geez, isn't that 01:24:33.920 --> 01:24:37.140 a conflict of interest? Well, yeah, inherently 01:24:37.140 --> 01:24:40.119 it was. But also at the same time, Gary was definitely 01:24:40.119 --> 01:24:42.500 the most talented manager that we knew at the 01:24:42.500 --> 01:24:45.100 time. But I didn't really understand that that 01:24:45.100 --> 01:24:48.359 was really the beginning of major changes. And 01:24:48.359 --> 01:24:51.359 then I know for me, my personal experience was 01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:54.630 I got a contract in the mail. Gary. moved the 01:24:54.630 --> 01:24:57.750 band out MCA records and off of his own label 01:24:57.750 --> 01:25:00.550 radioactive and moved us over to epic records 01:25:00.550 --> 01:25:04.510 and I was very excited about going to a new record 01:25:04.510 --> 01:25:07.890 label new beginnings all those things and I got 01:25:07.890 --> 01:25:10.609 a copy of the recording contract an execution 01:25:10.609 --> 01:25:14.130 copy for me to sign in the mail and As I page 01:25:14.130 --> 01:25:17.670 through it I I recognized I was smart enough 01:25:17.670 --> 01:25:20.090 at the time like we had signed enough big deals 01:25:20.090 --> 01:25:23.289 to read the deals I don't know that I fully understood 01:25:23.390 --> 01:25:27.489 every nuance of what I was signing. But I read 01:25:27.489 --> 01:25:29.869 through and I pretty soon figured out that there 01:25:29.869 --> 01:25:32.869 was an entire section of the record that was 01:25:32.869 --> 01:25:36.890 dedicated towards an Ed solo record. Right. And 01:25:36.890 --> 01:25:40.250 there was no discussion about this. Yeah, nothing. 01:25:40.630 --> 01:25:43.109 I like literally just read it in the thing, like 01:25:43.109 --> 01:25:44.729 real time. Not from management, not from Ed, 01:25:44.850 --> 01:25:47.430 no one. No one discussed it with us. Our quote 01:25:47.430 --> 01:25:49.310 unquote lawyers that we're supposed to represent 01:25:49.310 --> 01:25:56.329 all of us. And I was like, what the hell is this? 01:25:56.750 --> 01:25:59.270 And then it got excused to me as, well, the language 01:25:59.270 --> 01:26:01.369 is vague enough that any one of us could release 01:26:01.369 --> 01:26:04.310 a solo if you wanted

to. But, I mean, let's be 01:26:04.310 --> 01:26:09.850 honest. A little gaslighting. This is for everybody. 01:26:09.949 --> 01:26:12.829 It's OK. Yeah, OK. You guys will love it. It'll 01:26:12.829 --> 01:26:16.569 be great. And then what I eventually learned, 01:26:16.609 --> 01:26:18.609 which I didn't know at the time, is as we went 01:26:18.609 --> 01:26:22.779 in to make songs from Black Mountain, Ed sent 01:26:22.779 --> 01:26:29.560 us again through lawyers. He sent us like a band 01:26:29.560 --> 01:26:31.699 member agreement. Yeah, no discussion again. 01:26:32.199 --> 01:26:34.039 No discussion, no anything like it. But he sent 01:26:34.039 --> 01:26:36.220 us a band member agreement that basically said, 01:26:36.800 --> 01:26:39.720 you guys will sign this or I'm leaving the band. 01:26:39.840 --> 01:26:42.699 And that agreement assigned Ed the majority control 01:26:42.699 --> 01:26:47.319 of all the songwriting. Wow. And so I've never 01:26:47.319 --> 01:26:48.960 talked about that before. And only him getting 01:26:48.960 --> 01:26:51.000 credit on the records from them forward. Yes, 01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:53.579 that's correct. Right. And I never talked about 01:26:53.579 --> 01:26:56.340 it before, because I just thought it was bad 01:26:56.340 --> 01:26:59.359 for business. Sure. That's our business behind 01:26:59.359 --> 01:27:03.100 the scenes. But it was so aggressive that at 01:27:03.100 --> 01:27:06.140 some point, Ed had actually poked Patrick in 01:27:06.140 --> 01:27:08.380 the chest. And he said, you just remember I am 01:27:08.380 --> 01:27:11.600 live. Wow. And I only know that because Patrick's 01:27:11.600 --> 01:27:14.180 mom told me that story recently. And I was like, 01:27:14.199 --> 01:27:17.380 dude, I was like, what was I? Again, I was probably 01:27:17.380 --> 01:27:19.840 over lost and like never never landed drinking 01:27:19.840 --> 01:27:22.779 or something Like what was I doing like because 01:27:22.779 --> 01:27:25.100 that's a moment where you say this is a crisis 01:27:25.100 --> 01:27:27.939 intervention. Don't do that Yeah, and Patrick 01:27:27.939 --> 01:27:31.119 said, you know, he was basically at home and 01:27:31.119 --> 01:27:33.479 you know completely and I'm not trying to speak 01:27:33.479 --> 01:27:35.119 out a term I'm sure it's something that Patrick 01:27:35.119 --> 01:27:38.039 himself should should and can't express but that 01:27:38.039 --> 01:27:41.260 he was feeling like well I just have new babies 01:27:41.260 --> 01:27:43.300 and I have a family to take care of. I can't 01:27:43.300 --> 01:27:46.039 really quit the band, but in his spirit, he wanted 01:27:46.039 --> 01:27:50.840 to quit. Sure. And I told him, I said, Look, 01:27:50.840 --> 01:27:52.779 you know, we got on a phone call. We're, you 01:27:52.779 --> 01:27:54.819 know, we're all tight. And we called each other 01:27:54.819 --> 01:27:57.479 and said, Look, we're big boys. Maybe this is 01:27:57.479 --> 01:28:00.420

just a phase. Let's just, you know, put our best 01:28:00.420 --> 01:28:03.010 effort in. And then that turned into songs from 01:28:03.010 --> 01:28:05.329 Black Mountain. And I went into Jim Wirt, who 01:28:05.329 --> 01:28:07.789 was the producer, who I just love. Jim's a great 01:28:07.789 --> 01:28:12.149 guy. And I said, look, Jim, I know I'm not here 01:28:12.149 --> 01:28:16.329 as a songwriter. I made a deal with him. I said, 01:28:16.550 --> 01:28:21.250 he taught me one Beatles song per day. And I 01:28:21.250 --> 01:28:23.810 just played whatever part he wanted me to play. 01:28:24.289 --> 01:28:27.310 So when I say I put nothing into the record, 01:28:28.600 --> 01:28:33.359 I just, like, I didn't like the songs. I was 01:28:33.359 --> 01:28:36.180 like, you know, well, almost like I was a computer 01:28:36.180 --> 01:28:38.460 program. Like, I'll just try and show up and 01:28:38.460 --> 01:28:41.319 be professional, not be argumentative or anything. 01:28:41.659 --> 01:28:44.000 Be a pro and just submit myself to the process. 01:28:44.539 --> 01:28:46.460 Then later on, I learned, well, Gracie was doing 01:28:46.460 --> 01:28:48.420 the same thing. Patrick was doing the same thing. 01:28:48.439 --> 01:28:52.460 So what you got really was a compromise in two 01:28:52.460 --> 01:28:54.899 layers, which was, the songs from Black Mountain 01:28:54.899 --> 01:28:57.920 should have been Ed's first solo album. and he 01:28:57.920 --> 01:29:00.680 should have had professional side musicians that 01:29:00.680 --> 01:29:02.979 would have amplified and made those songs better. 01:29:04.000 --> 01:29:06.500 But instead what you got was essentially a watered 01:29:06.500 --> 01:29:09.739 down live record. Now what stinks about that 01:29:09.739 --> 01:29:12.460 is there were people that were like, well, Ed 01:29:12.460 --> 01:29:14.460 ought to have the right to make a solo record, 01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:16.899 et cetera, all those things. I wouldn't disagree. 01:29:17.199 --> 01:29:18.960 I think even Ed should have the right to be able 01:29:18.960 --> 01:29:21.199 to say, fuck you guys, I don't like you, I want 01:29:21.199 --> 01:29:23.960 to leave. What I didn't like was that it was 01:29:23.960 --> 01:29:26.119 all delivered underhanded and through lawyers. 01:29:26.560 --> 01:29:28.899 And yeah, you know, like, it's just like, there's 01:29:28.899 --> 01:29:32.979 no integrity to the process. Right. And so and 01:29:32.979 --> 01:29:36.020 by the way, I did a very poor job at that time 01:29:36.020 --> 01:29:39.100 of expressing these things to Ed. Like, for example, 01:29:39.560 --> 01:29:41.899 if I was so unhappy, well, then I wouldn't call 01:29:41.899 --> 01:29:45.079 up Ed and say, Look, I'm really unhappy. Instead, 01:29:45.140 --> 01:29:47.710 what I did was like I was like, Well, this is 01:29:47.710 --> 01:29:50.369 toxic. This is terrible. I have also a family 01:29:50.369 --> 01:29:52.510 that I'm trying to take care of. I had very young 01:29:52.510 --> 01:29:56.409 children at the time. I just drank more. And 01:29:56.409 --> 01:29:58.670 that's not a cop out. I'm just telling you, I 01:29:58.670 --> 01:30:00.569 have the maturity and I have the conversations. 01:30:01.130 --> 01:30:03.729 And in terms of management leadership, the guys 01:30:03.729 --> 01:30:05.970 that kind of had us in the cradle turns were 01:30:05.970 --> 01:30:08.590 Sestek and Friedman. Well, they were gone. Kurifrist 01:30:08.590 --> 01:30:13.399 at this point was a veteran. His artists are 01:30:13.399 --> 01:30:15.680 like Bob Marley, James Addiction, The Ramones, 01:30:15.880 --> 01:30:18.220 Talking Heads. I mean, he had a legacy career 01:30:18.220 --> 01:30:21.920 long before he even had life. And he was a little 01:30:21.920 --> 01:30:24.619 checked out at that time. And I don't know that 01:30:24.619 --> 01:30:27.539 he was protecting the whole of the band. And 01:30:27.539 --> 01:30:29.239 so I was like, well, I guess this is what the 01:30:29.239 --> 01:30:32.680 industry wants. So. Fuck it, just whatever, here 01:30:32.680 --> 01:30:34.500 you go. And then next thing you know, we're going 01:30:34.500 --> 01:30:37.600 la da de da, da da da da, whatever. I'm like, 01:30:37.779 --> 01:30:41.840 what the fuck is this? I showed up to the video 01:30:41.840 --> 01:30:43.600 set. I'm not joking. I had to pull the director 01:30:43.600 --> 01:30:45.760 aside and I said, can I get a boombox or something? 01:30:45.840 --> 01:30:49.119 I had to learn the guitar parts the day of the 01:30:49.119 --> 01:30:51.560 video shoot, because I was so disconnected from 01:30:51.560 --> 01:30:54.100 the whole process. And by the way, I'm not mocking 01:30:54.100 --> 01:30:56.420 that song, by the way. Which video do we shoot 01:30:56.420 --> 01:31:01.039 in Amsterdam? I can't even remember the song, 01:31:01.220 --> 01:31:06.520 Chad. You and I are just in the background like 01:31:06.520 --> 01:31:11.340 laughing like this is fucking stupid. Yeah. So 01:31:11.340 --> 01:31:14.319 that was that why I got to give that song credit 01:31:14.319 --> 01:31:17.100 from song from Wings was bomb. That was a good. 01:31:17.100 --> 01:31:20.579 That was a good one on that one. Yeah, that's 01:31:20.579 --> 01:31:23.579 a great song. There's nothing wrong. There's 01:31:23.579 --> 01:31:25.859 nothing wrong with a single one of those songs 01:31:25.859 --> 01:31:28.140 that you should have not been a live album. Right. 01:31:28.439 --> 01:31:31.220 No, a hundred percent. I have a question. So 01:31:31.220 --> 01:31:35.439 it seems like the four of you in general around 01:31:35.439 --> 01:31:38.659 the time from songs from Black Mountain, but 01:31:38.659 --> 01:31:41.260 maybe even a little bit earlier, maybe weren't 01:31:41.260 --> 01:31:45.199 communicating personally as best as you should 01:31:45.199 --> 01:31:47.380 be. Like it seems like maybe you guys got to 01:31:47.380 --> 01:31:50.600 concerts

performed and then kind of got off stage, 01:31:50.600 --> 01:31:56.079 whatever. And you picked up on that crazy. Nice 01:31:56.079 --> 01:31:58.659 job. I mean, Patrick, Chad and I were communicating, 01:31:58.859 --> 01:32:00.119 but we weren't communicating with that. That 01:32:00.119 --> 01:32:02.920 wasn't communicating with us. That's I mean, 01:32:02.979 --> 01:32:04.779 well, because I'm just wondering, like, why would 01:32:04.779 --> 01:32:08.260 he send, like, it, like, don't even briefly mention, 01:32:08.460 --> 01:32:10.319 Hey guys, by the way, like, I want to put this 01:32:10.319 --> 01:32:12.600 terminology in this agreement for songs from 01:32:12.600 --> 01:32:14.960 black mountain. Like it just seems so backhanded 01:32:14.960 --> 01:32:17.899 and like, How would he expect you guys to react 01:32:17.899 --> 01:32:20.319 to that? It just seems he put you in an impossible 01:32:20.319 --> 01:32:23.340 situation. He didn't care. He didn't care how 01:32:23.340 --> 01:32:26.140 we reacted to it. As long as we signed what he 01:32:26.140 --> 01:32:27.779 wanted us to sign. And then if we didn't sign, 01:32:27.819 --> 01:32:31.479 he was going to leave. Yeah. And so, but that's 01:32:31.479 --> 01:32:33.760 our fault, right? That's not it. I'll take blame 01:32:33.760 --> 01:32:35.979 for that. That's our fault. Like when somebody 01:32:35.979 --> 01:32:38.239 is telling you what they really want, which is 01:32:38.239 --> 01:32:39.939 to leave, like you're supposed to say to them, 01:32:40.020 --> 01:32:42.399 well, OK, then like if I'm not good enough for 01:32:42.399 --> 01:32:45.180 you, then you should leave. Yeah. I think for 01:32:45.180 --> 01:32:47.739 me, I'll just speak from the side of being a 01:32:47.739 --> 01:32:50.260 husband and a father. I was scared to death to 01:32:50.260 --> 01:32:52.979 lose my living. That's all I really knew how 01:32:52.979 --> 01:32:56.920 to do was be a member in a band. And we had been 01:32:56.920 --> 01:32:59.380 blessed enough to really make amazing money. 01:33:00.619 --> 01:33:04.439 So I was best qualified to be a barista at Starbucks. 01:33:05.700 --> 01:33:08.359 And, you know, like, oh, it was economic. But 01:33:08.359 --> 01:33:11.119 also, as I said earlier, we were about the band. 01:33:11.159 --> 01:33:12.880 We wanted to keep the band together no matter 01:33:12.880 --> 01:33:16.119 what. Like, yeah, maybe when we hope that down 01:33:16.119 --> 01:33:18.399 the line, it would, you know, he would go out 01:33:18.399 --> 01:33:21.420 and get out of this phase of I'm fucking live. 01:33:21.800 --> 01:33:23.699 Yeah. And come back and like want to do shit 01:33:23.699 --> 01:33:27.060 the old way. And we had we even had that. I even 01:33:27.060 --> 01:33:29.539 had that expectation or that hope when we came 01:33:29.539 --> 01:33:31.800 back together in 16. I hope, oh, man, let's get 01:33:31.800 --> 01:33:34.180 in a room and do some songs. And we never did. 01:33:34.380 --> 01:33:36.739 I call him. I say, I'm coming to York. I'm going 01:33:36.739 --> 01:33:38.380 to be there for a week. Come on down. Never, 01:33:38.520 --> 01:33:41.060 never would come down. Like, okay, guess we're 01:33:41.060 --> 01:33:43.880 not doing that. Yeah. Here we are. There's so 01:33:43.880 --> 01:33:47.460 much pain. Yeah. For anybody that's listening, 01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:49.340 here's an intriguing thing, right? When I talk 01:33:49.340 --> 01:33:52.460 about like praying for these guys and like, I 01:33:52.460 --> 01:33:55.119 mean, I put in some prayers to be forgiven because 01:33:55.119 --> 01:33:58.960 I guarantee you, like I did like some fucked 01:33:58.960 --> 01:34:01.680 up shit to Ed that probably he doesn't like. 01:34:03.000 --> 01:34:06.180 didn't deserve or whatever. We were all just 01:34:06.180 --> 01:34:08.180 trying to find our own version of happiness. 01:34:08.359 --> 01:34:10.920 And then there's also a weird thing, which is 01:34:10.920 --> 01:34:14.079 these four guys and the pressure on us to get 01:34:14.079 --> 01:34:16.739 along, to release new records, to do it. Even 01:34:16.739 --> 01:34:19.180 the fans now are like, you know, we're, you know, 01:34:19.239 --> 01:34:21.460 we're for all sense of purpose, as you know, 01:34:21.600 --> 01:34:24.359 not on stage together. And, you know, if you 01:34:24.359 --> 01:34:25.739 read the first comments, like, when are you guys 01:34:25.739 --> 01:34:28.060 getting back together? When will you play? Well, 01:34:28.060 --> 01:34:29.899 we felt that pressure since the time we were 01:34:29.899 --> 01:34:34.619 18, 19 year old kids. I think at the time away 01:34:34.619 --> 01:34:37.840 from the band has been like really healthy. Sure. 01:34:38.239 --> 01:34:43.140 And what I would want to always say is that while 01:34:43.140 --> 01:34:46.779 these stories are truthful and they're earnest 01:34:46.779 --> 01:34:48.659 and they're all those things, they're also just 01:34:48.659 --> 01:34:50.600 like part of the past. It's just part of the 01:34:50.600 --> 01:34:53.859 narrative. Like I don't hold ill will towards 01:34:53.859 --> 01:34:58.000 any of the bandmates. And that includes Ed. You 01:34:58.000 --> 01:34:59.560 know, somebody said, oh, you know, Ed won't want 01:34:59.560 --> 01:35:02.100 to watch this. Well, actually, I mean, maybe 01:35:02.100 --> 01:35:04.460 you would. I think he deserves an awful lot of 01:35:04.460 --> 01:35:07.159 credit for where we are. But I think that there 01:35:07.159 --> 01:35:11.520 are whatever. Like you mentioned Kurt Cobain 01:35:11.520 --> 01:35:13.739 earlier and his struggles and all those things. 01:35:14.640 --> 01:35:17.800 We each individually have our own strangeness 01:35:17.800 --> 01:35:20.460 and our own struggles. The fact that we face 01:35:20.460 --> 01:35:23.840 them as a collective. a very successful collective 01:35:23.840 --> 01:35:26.720 with a spotlight on us also makes it like, I

01:35:26.720 --> 01:35:29.100 mean, it's, it's, it's just odd and bizarre. 01:35:29.319 --> 01:35:31.600 I mean, I'm sure nobody else in one of these 01:35:31.600 --> 01:35:34.060 chats is like, well, I had to spend the rest 01:35:34.060 --> 01:35:36.079 of my life with like my three childhood best 01:35:36.079 --> 01:35:39.060 friends cooped up like in buses and hotels and 01:35:39.060 --> 01:35:43.880 stages, whatever. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, just as 01:35:43.880 --> 01:35:46.319 a, so let you guys know, kind of a thought I 01:35:46.319 --> 01:35:48.380 had as just a fan of yours is like growing. I'm 01:35:48.380 --> 01:35:50.819 like, This is great. You know, my favorite band, 01:35:50.939 --> 01:35:52.579 they'll never break up because they're like best 01:35:52.579 --> 01:35:54.680 friends from childhood and a blah, blah, blah, 01:35:54.699 --> 01:35:57.020 blah, blah. And then here we are now. But then 01:35:57.020 --> 01:35:58.720 when I talk about the story with people, they're 01:35:58.720 --> 01:36:01.300 like, think about it. When you are friends for 01:36:01.300 --> 01:36:04.659 that long, like it's very few and far between 01:36:04.659 --> 01:36:06.699 that you still talk to somebody you knew in, 01:36:06.699 --> 01:36:08.600 you know, say fifth grade. I happen to have a 01:36:08.600 --> 01:36:10.680 couple that I do, but it's you talk to people, 01:36:10.699 --> 01:36:13.279 they don't really stay in touch that long. So 01:36:13.279 --> 01:36:15.399 like you could see kind of the double edged sword 01:36:15.399 --> 01:36:18.239 about kind of growing up together, being so close. 01:36:18.539 --> 01:36:21.659 And then, you know, kind of getting the fame 01:36:21.659 --> 01:36:24.260 and everything so young and then still dealing 01:36:24.260 --> 01:36:27.939 with each other kind of on that mentality is 01:36:27.939 --> 01:36:30.079 almost like kids dealing with each other, you 01:36:30.079 --> 01:36:34.180 know? Yeah, it was. Well, don't you? You know, 01:36:34.180 --> 01:36:36.579 like one of the things that I worked on when 01:36:36.579 --> 01:36:39.920 I was working on the book, I found this great 01:36:39.920 --> 01:36:45.020 news article where Chad gives the interview and. 01:36:46.479 --> 01:36:49.199 I was very interested in his perspective and 01:36:49.199 --> 01:36:53.159 who he was at that point in time. And this was 01:36:53.159 --> 01:36:57.699 right around the release of Secrets of Mahdi. 01:36:58.840 --> 01:37:03.260 And the record label, of course, Likini's Juice 01:37:03.260 --> 01:37:05.960 came out and it blazed up the charts and it was 01:37:05.960 --> 01:37:09.920 insane. And then the record label picked Turn 01:37:09.920 --> 01:37:13.640 My Head as the next single. And Ed wrote Turn 01:37:13.640 --> 01:37:16.479 My Head. I mean, it's one of his most beautiful, 01:37:16.479 --> 01:37:19.579 amazing songs. I mean, it's heart wrenching. 01:37:20.560 --> 01:37:24.260 I'll play it just to myself. Yeah, it's beautiful. 01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:27.479 To just, I don't know, feel whole or together. 01:37:28.880 --> 01:37:32.560 And it was a very strange thing because the record 01:37:32.560 --> 01:37:35.060 label, I recognize this now, by the way. I didn't 01:37:35.060 --> 01:37:36.739 know it at the time. But the record label was 01:37:36.739 --> 01:37:40.500 trying to buy the next Lightning Crashes. And 01:37:40.500 --> 01:37:44.140 so what they did was we filmed like video one 01:37:44.140 --> 01:37:47.819 and then that got submitted to MTV while the 01:37:47.819 --> 01:37:50.039 song was like out charting on the alternative 01:37:50.039 --> 01:37:53.939 playlists and stuff. And it was a very, very 01:37:53.939 --> 01:37:57.359 beautiful but extraordinarily esoteric video. 01:37:58.199 --> 01:38:03.319 It's a single moving shot through. John registers, 01:38:03.680 --> 01:38:06.000 it was supposed to look like his paintings. And 01:38:06.000 --> 01:38:07.800 it moved very slowly through the whole thing. 01:38:07.800 --> 01:38:09.699 And at the very end, it just turns his head and 01:38:09.699 --> 01:38:13.659 looks into the camera. The most non MTV video 01:38:13.659 --> 01:38:16.539 that's ever been created by mankind. Yeah, real 01:38:16.539 --> 01:38:19.539 artsy. I think it probably cost a million dollars 01:38:19.539 --> 01:38:24.220 to make. Wow. Insane. Stupid. And then the record 01:38:24.220 --> 01:38:26.340 label to MTV is like, you know, barely playing 01:38:26.340 --> 01:38:28.500 the thing. It's just too, it's too out there 01:38:28.500 --> 01:38:32.689 for them. And then the record label, like, They 01:38:32.689 --> 01:38:35.850 hired Mary Lambert, who is famous for directing 01:38:35.850 --> 01:38:39.470 the movie Pet Sematary. They hired Mary Lambert 01:38:39.470 --> 01:38:42.130 to come in and to kind of like create an alternative 01:38:42.130 --> 01:38:44.250 version of it. It relied a little bit on some 01:38:44.250 --> 01:38:46.130 of the scenery that we painted, but it was more 01:38:46.130 --> 01:38:49.050 performance -oriented that we shot at the trust 01:38:49.050 --> 01:38:52.069 building in Lancaster, just a few blocks away 01:38:52.069 --> 01:38:56.289 from where we wrote Turn Copper. And they were 01:38:56.289 --> 01:38:58.420 just... like they were doing everything in their 01:38:58.420 --> 01:39:01.739 power throwing money behind the song and the 01:39:01.739 --> 01:39:04.920 song just it wouldn't get air underneath its 01:39:04.920 --> 01:39:07.640 wings like they were fighting for something that 01:39:07.640 --> 01:39:10.140 wasn't there and the point was about Chad's interview 01:39:10.140 --> 01:39:16.600 to give you perspective like he he said something 01:39:16.600 --> 01:39:20.840 like that'll either sell a couple million records 01:39:20.840 --> 01:39:24.619 or we'll just move on to the next song Like as 01:39:24.619 --> 01:39:27.699 though, like selling millions of records was 01:39:27.699 --> 01:39:29.840 like, I'm just

going to add some sugar in my 01:39:29.840 --> 01:39:33.399 coffee. Just the most normal thing. But what 01:39:33.399 --> 01:39:36.199 it tells you is how our perspective about selling 01:39:36.199 --> 01:39:38.680 records and what that meant commercial success 01:39:38.680 --> 01:39:42.079 had changed so much. But I think that moments 01:39:42.079 --> 01:39:45.760 like that also slowly began to fracture the band. 01:39:46.520 --> 01:39:48.960 How does that feel when you're that songwriter 01:39:48.960 --> 01:39:53.949 and you wrote this beautiful, amazing completely 01:39:53.949 --> 01:39:57.449 just one of the best songs that live ever had. 01:39:57.869 --> 01:40:00.689 And yet that doesn't do what Lightning Crashes 01:40:00.689 --> 01:40:04.470 did. Right. Just opposed to Likini's. And I started 01:40:04.470 --> 01:40:06.010 looking back to these things. So like, well, 01:40:06.010 --> 01:40:08.529 I think that's the basket of resentment where 01:40:08.529 --> 01:40:12.210 resentments begin to build. And by the way, I'm 01:40:12.210 --> 01:40:13.970 stupid in the whole thing. Like I'm still walking 01:40:13.970 --> 01:40:16.609 around just like, well, just it's all for one 01:40:16.609 --> 01:40:19.680 being a band. Don't know we're having the best 01:40:19.680 --> 01:40:21.840 times of her life. This is all fun I don't think 01:40:21.840 --> 01:40:24.319 that was really true for Ed at that time I do 01:40:24.319 --> 01:40:26.340 not think that he was having I think first of 01:40:26.340 --> 01:40:28.060 all he was the front man So he was dealing with 01:40:28.060 --> 01:40:31.500 I like nothing trains you to be famous So there's 01:40:31.500 --> 01:40:34.000 that right that right weirdness We were already 01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:36.760 very strange guys to begin with and not adding 01:40:36.760 --> 01:40:39.399 any excuses But like we weren't the easiest band 01:40:39.399 --> 01:40:43.390 -mates in the world That's just the truth. A 01:40:43.390 --> 01:40:47.310 lot of bams are dictated. It's a dictatorial 01:40:47.310 --> 01:40:50.189 environment where it's a John Bon Jovi that's 01:40:50.189 --> 01:40:51.989 like, hey, you guys maintain your space and do 01:40:51.989 --> 01:40:55.270 your thing. And Richie, we'll tolerate Richie 01:40:55.270 --> 01:40:57.130 because he helps write some good songs. But everybody 01:40:57.130 --> 01:41:00.310 else, toe the line. Get in your place. I'm not 01:41:00.310 --> 01:41:02.149 picking on those guys, by the way. They have. 01:41:02.350 --> 01:41:04.670 their own system and it works. And one of the 01:41:04.670 --> 01:41:06.829 reasons why it works is because there is a dictator. 01:41:07.170 --> 01:41:09.729 But when you start when you're 13 or 15 or whatever 01:41:09.729 --> 01:41:11.970 we were when you're kids, I mean, you're just 01:41:11.970 --> 01:41:14.270 making up as you go. We didn't understand those 01:41:14.270 --> 01:41:20.510 rules. Yeah. Oh, man. It's just crazy that know, 01:41:20.510 --> 01:41:23.649 like just kind of egos or just thoughts that 01:41:23.649 --> 01:41:25.609 shouldn't even been in the band kind of got in 01:41:25.609 --> 01:41:27.510 the way of the band. Cause when you guys were 01:41:27.510 --> 01:41:30.069 firing on all four cylinders, it was just fucking, 01:41:30.270 --> 01:41:32.170 you guys were making some of the best music out 01:41:32.170 --> 01:41:35.529 there. It's just the, the, I think what is coming 01:41:35.529 --> 01:41:40.029 across from this podcast in general is that while 01:41:40.029 --> 01:41:43.569 there's a lot of hurt here, there's still doors 01:41:43.569 --> 01:41:47.029 open for the four of you guys to collaborate 01:41:47.029 --> 01:41:49.329 in the future. If, if stuff gets talked about 01:41:49.329 --> 01:41:51.960 like It doesn't seem like it's like there seems 01:41:51.960 --> 01:41:53.699 like there's still a lot of love between the 01:41:53.699 --> 01:41:56.260 four, even though there might be personal and 01:41:56.260 --> 01:41:59.300 other things going on is like kind of the vibe 01:41:59.300 --> 01:42:01.880 I get. Well, Mr. Gracie may be saying something 01:42:01.880 --> 01:42:07.300 different. There might be their love here on 01:42:07.300 --> 01:42:10.560 this podcast. And I think Patrick is coming around, 01:42:10.699 --> 01:42:13.600 but I don't know. I don't know about it. Yeah, 01:42:14.079 --> 01:42:16.939 I think he's lost and lost calls, but I'll never 01:42:16.939 --> 01:42:22.270 say never. Unfortunately, that shit goes down 01:42:22.270 --> 01:42:25.210 and there's resentment and we don't even know 01:42:25.210 --> 01:42:27.989 where the initial resentment really came from. 01:42:28.649 --> 01:42:32.029 Right. I want to quote Don Henley here when hell 01:42:32.029 --> 01:42:35.109 freezes over. Right. Well, then there's that. 01:42:36.920 --> 01:42:38.880 I made this prediction when we first started 01:42:38.880 --> 01:42:40.859 this podcast. I said, well, if worse comes to 01:42:40.859 --> 01:42:43.439 worse, we know you guys are going to reunite 01:42:43.439 --> 01:42:45.079 when you guys get inducted into the Rock and 01:42:45.079 --> 01:42:47.140 Roll Hall of Fame. And I still stand by that 01:42:47.140 --> 01:42:49.460 statement that when you guys do, there will be 01:42:49.460 --> 01:42:52.119 some sort of the four of you on stage jamming, 01:42:52.119 --> 01:42:54.739 even if there's plexiglass dividing you four 01:42:54.739 --> 01:42:57.359 so you can't get in the physical same space. 01:42:57.359 --> 01:43:02.060 I'm not doing that ever again. Gracie back in 01:43:02.060 --> 01:43:04.060 the fish tank and me looking at him during a 01:43:04.060 --> 01:43:07.439 concert like. Love you, buddy. Are you in there? 01:43:07.479 --> 01:43:11.260 Like I'm visiting like a lost puppy at the shelter. 01:43:11.500 --> 01:43:15.239 Like are you okay? Like what can I be like help? 01:43:15.699 --> 01:43:18.539 Well, what does that do? So does that like what

01:43:18.539 --> 01:43:21.199 was the point of the plexiglass? Like is it sound? 01:43:22.100 --> 01:43:24.779 So it like your drums were affecting his ears 01:43:24.779 --> 01:43:27.520 on stage. Does that plexiglass really mute the 01:43:27.520 --> 01:43:31.079 sound that much? I would yeah, I mean the cymbals 01:43:31.079 --> 01:43:41.279 down. Yeah Gotcha. Yeah. And to be fair, we were 01:43:41.279 --> 01:43:45.199 at a transition there in between live stage monitors 01:43:45.199 --> 01:43:47.979 and in -ears. That was a technological change 01:43:47.979 --> 01:43:52.439 in the way artists are using monitors on stage. 01:43:53.260 --> 01:43:55.520 You know, we just had to unfortunately live through 01:43:55.520 --> 01:43:57.439 that, through that thing. But again, I think 01:43:57.439 --> 01:44:02.810 just as a band, you know, like I don't... We 01:44:02.810 --> 01:44:04.489 just didn't handle any of those situations. We 01:44:04.489 --> 01:44:07.569 were terrible at that. And there's also a vacancy 01:44:07.569 --> 01:44:10.529 in leadership. I mean, all due respect to the 01:44:10.529 --> 01:44:13.770 guy that wound up managing live in the long run. 01:44:14.090 --> 01:44:16.630 I didn't even know who he was. I mean, I thought 01:44:16.630 --> 01:44:21.649 he was a fucking intern putz. And I really mean 01:44:21.649 --> 01:44:24.930 that. I'm not trying to. I'm sure that he showed 01:44:24.930 --> 01:44:27.550 up every day and worked. But I didn't know he 01:44:27.550 --> 01:44:30.500 started in the Peter Friedman camp. He's one 01:44:30.500 --> 01:44:32.819 of those guys that just out -survived everybody. 01:44:33.819 --> 01:44:36.579 Peter Friedman died. He was still around. So 01:44:36.579 --> 01:44:38.500 he worked under Kerfors. And then Kerfors died. 01:44:39.020 --> 01:44:43.100 And then he was the last man standing. So when 01:44:43.100 --> 01:44:48.539 I say there was a vacancy, there was no Irving 01:44:48.539 --> 01:44:51.060 Azoff in our camp that would step up and say, 01:44:51.199 --> 01:44:54.000 Irving Azoff is famously the guy that basically 01:44:54.000 --> 01:44:58.840 told Don Henley. or Glenn Fry to like shut the 01:44:58.840 --> 01:45:02.739 fuck up. Like, you know, we probably needed that. 01:45:02.739 --> 01:45:05.039 We needed a strong outside leader that would 01:45:05.039 --> 01:45:07.739 have come in and said, look, if you're either 01:45:07.739 --> 01:45:09.579 gonna do it my way or I'm gonna bash your heads 01:45:09.579 --> 01:45:12.079 together, whatever you take, you know. Irving 01:45:12.079 --> 01:45:14.020 Azal, for example, would have been powerful enough 01:45:14.020 --> 01:45:16.680 to say, I'll just blacklist you. You won't work 01:45:16.680 --> 01:45:19.760 at all again. And I think that we would have 01:45:19.760 --> 01:45:22.520 listened. Yeah, what we got was a yes man for 01:45:22.520 --> 01:45:25.289 Ed. That's it. Period. And that's not what you 01:45:25.289 --> 01:45:29.170 needed at all. She did not need to feed that. 01:45:29.310 --> 01:45:33.550 The yeses to that. Yeah. Good, Chad. I'm sorry. 01:45:34.630 --> 01:45:38.229 No, it's all right. I edited myself. All right. 01:45:38.369 --> 01:45:41.369 Well, then that's a good time to go to the voicemail. 01:45:41.369 --> 01:45:45.869 Gentlemen, we've got to check one of these boys 01:45:45.869 --> 01:45:49.189 out. I always do that. I go to click the play 01:45:49.189 --> 01:45:53.060 screen minutes long. Oh, boy. Yeah. Thank God 01:45:53.060 --> 01:45:55.220 we, and we don't know what they're saying here. 01:45:57.159 --> 01:46:01.699 Good morning, mr. Gracie. Good morning, mr. Taylor. 01:46:02.380 --> 01:46:05.819 This is the Z man up here in the Poconos. What 01:46:05.819 --> 01:46:10.300 a brilliant, bright, wonderful new day we have 01:46:10.300 --> 01:46:14.300 here today that you two guys got back together 01:46:14.300 --> 01:46:18.420 in the studio and hopefully hash it out, sat 01:46:18.420 --> 01:46:21.760 down, gave each other some hugs. Maybe shed some 01:46:21.760 --> 01:46:25.399 tears But this is a start and it's great to see 01:46:25.399 --> 01:46:28.520 you two Guys back together that have been friends 01:46:28.520 --> 01:46:32.140 forever. Like Gracie said band therapy, you know 01:46:32.140 --> 01:46:34.880 Everybody makes mistakes and fucks up and does 01:46:34.880 --> 01:46:37.119 things and says things they shouldn't say to 01:46:37.119 --> 01:46:40.359 each other That's just a part of life. But in 01:46:40.359 --> 01:46:43.500 reality you go back to what started on where 01:46:43.500 --> 01:46:48.300 the friendship began And God honestly, it's great 01:46:48.300 --> 01:46:51.689 to see you two guys back together Congratulations. 01:46:52.029 --> 01:46:55.210 Love you the best of luck to both of you Now 01:46:55.210 --> 01:46:56.949 let me come down to sing some songs with you 01:46:56.949 --> 01:47:03.449 fuckers. Yeah Z man Maybe so the rest of the 01:47:03.449 --> 01:47:05.390 thing is just blank. All right, cool. So he didn't 01:47:05.390 --> 01:47:08.409 have got nothing up. Yeah scratching in his pocket 01:47:08.409 --> 01:47:13.970 now Well, that was Well, thank you, man. It's 01:47:13.970 --> 01:47:16.869 great to hear from you man. He's awesome agreed. 01:47:16.970 --> 01:47:20.159 Yeah, Chris the link up Yeah, we've never been 01:47:20.159 --> 01:47:23.619 without with any shortage of incredibly warm 01:47:23.619 --> 01:47:27.300 smart sweet and intelligent People that make 01:47:27.300 --> 01:47:30.600 up our fan base and it's also nice to have that 01:47:30.600 --> 01:47:33.800 fan base as adults It was very difficult to have 01:47:33.800 --> 01:47:36.039 a fan base as kids like I didn't know what to 01:47:36.039 --> 01:47:38.659 do with that Now I look at it like we can relate 01:47:38.659 --> 01:47:41.279 adult to doll like I've get into so many conversations 01:47:41.279 --> 01:47:43.180 with people and I'm like Oh, what do you do? 01:47:43.239 -->

01:47:45.619 What are you into? What's your family like? But 01:47:45.619 --> 01:47:49.029 like there's a lot of commonality Now, when we 01:47:49.029 --> 01:47:51.489 were kids, it didn't feel so much that way for 01:47:51.489 --> 01:47:54.210 sure. And you guys got into the stratosphere 01:47:54.210 --> 01:47:57.390 so young. I mean, by 18, you know, you're here 01:47:57.390 --> 01:47:59.329 in Operation Spirit pain lies on the Riverside 01:47:59.329 --> 01:48:03.229 on MTV and stuff. So it's like you kind of got 01:48:03.229 --> 01:48:05.750 thrust into that limelight early. So it's like, 01:48:05.890 --> 01:48:07.729 you know, you don't know how to deal with everything 01:48:07.729 --> 01:48:12.479 at that young age and all that jazz. And it could 01:48:12.479 --> 01:48:14.560 have been worse because I think Chad said that 01:48:14.560 --> 01:48:17.140 was Nickelodeon or Disney looking at you guys 01:48:17.140 --> 01:48:18.899 saying that you maybe should change to a boy 01:48:18.899 --> 01:48:22.279 band or something in the early stages. That was 01:48:22.279 --> 01:48:25.359 it wasn't wasn't Disney records, but it was a 01:48:25.359 --> 01:48:27.100 label that was with Disney. Right. What the fuck 01:48:27.100 --> 01:48:30.239 was it called? Yeah, I can't remember, but it 01:48:30.239 --> 01:48:32.899 was two two ladies that came up to watch us and 01:48:32.899 --> 01:48:36.779 we did a private showcase for them. And they 01:48:36.779 --> 01:48:39.020 were like, like we got done. We played a couple 01:48:39.020 --> 01:48:41.789 of songs. They were like, hey, sit down, guys. 01:48:41.869 --> 01:48:43.510 Can we ask you some questions and stuff? They 01:48:43.510 --> 01:48:46.869 were like, amazing show. You guys are so talented. 01:48:47.069 --> 01:48:49.909 We really want to sign you. And we're here and 01:48:49.909 --> 01:48:52.989 everything. For us, we're like, holy shit. Wow. 01:48:53.750 --> 01:48:58.689 And then maybe 10 questions in, one of the girls 01:48:58.689 --> 01:49:06.909 said, so can you guys dance? Hand to God. Wow. 01:49:07.869 --> 01:49:10.229 That was a trip. We kind of all looked at each 01:49:10.229 --> 01:49:13.789 other and we were like, what the hell is going 01:49:13.789 --> 01:49:17.909 on? What did they just say? And I think I'm trying 01:49:17.909 --> 01:49:19.949 to be politically correct and say, I mean, like, 01:49:20.170 --> 01:49:22.829 well, I mean, we can dance, but no one wants 01:49:22.829 --> 01:49:26.310 to see us do it. Yeah. Four white boys from York. 01:49:27.170 --> 01:49:29.810 Yeah. No. So we could have been, you know, I 01:49:29.810 --> 01:49:31.590 don't know, new kids on the block or something 01:49:31.590 --> 01:49:33.930 like that right at that time. That's hysterical. 01:49:34.250 --> 01:49:37.010 Um, I think this is a cool question for you guys. 01:49:37.170 --> 01:49:39.350 Any fave song that you wish you played more in 01:49:39.350 --> 01:49:41.609 concert? I'm still wishing you played,

uh, feel 01:49:41.609 --> 01:49:44.329 the quiet river rage, uh, the whole song at some 01:49:44.329 --> 01:49:48.789 point in concert from Ryan Etchelman. Anything 01:49:48.789 --> 01:49:53.170 you guys wish you played more in concert? I wish 01:49:53.170 --> 01:49:55.649 we played freaks more. I like playing freaks. 01:49:55.890 --> 01:49:59.090 Yeah. The last, especially the last tours we 01:49:59.090 --> 01:50:02.069 did in 17, 18, 19, we didn't, you know, play 01:50:02.069 --> 01:50:06.819 too much of a, uh, eclectics set list. We were 01:50:06.819 --> 01:50:11.020 sticking to the old faithfuls, the head. We rehearsed 01:50:11.020 --> 01:50:12.659 a bunch of other songs, but apparently they didn't 01:50:12.659 --> 01:50:18.800 want to be done. So what do you do? Um, was 1998. 01:50:18.800 --> 01:50:21.359 I'll probably get blamed for that too. Go ahead, 01:50:21.399 --> 01:50:23.560 Chad. I'm sorry. I said, I'll probably get blamed 01:50:23.560 --> 01:50:26.359 for that too. Of course. Yeah. Oh yeah. Come 01:50:26.359 --> 01:50:31.399 on now. Uh, was 1998 a good creative year for 01:50:31.399 --> 01:50:34.010 you guys? Cause it seemed like, um, I think you 01:50:34.010 --> 01:50:36.829 guys were writing the distance at the time. And 01:50:36.829 --> 01:50:38.689 I don't know if you were performing a lot of 01:50:38.689 --> 01:50:40.869 concerts during that year, but you performed 01:50:40.869 --> 01:50:44.329 one in New Jersey at the stone pony and you only 01:50:44.329 --> 01:50:47.390 played four songs I ever heard before. Like it 01:50:47.390 --> 01:50:50.170 was maybe three or four of throwing copper and 01:50:50.170 --> 01:50:52.149 the rest were like all new songs that were going 01:50:52.149 --> 01:50:55.729 to be on the distance to hear. And there was 01:50:55.729 --> 01:50:59.189 some that didn't make it to there that were absolutely. 01:50:59.350 --> 01:51:01.510 I think some of the best live music out there. 01:51:01.600 --> 01:51:04.399 But it just seemed like a crazy cool time for 01:51:04.399 --> 01:51:06.680 you guys creatively musically was like that a 01:51:06.680 --> 01:51:12.199 good time for live So I'll you know, I'll so 01:51:12.199 --> 01:51:16.140 I lived on Wheatland Avenue in Lancaster here 01:51:16.140 --> 01:51:18.800 and that's before you could just email files 01:51:18.800 --> 01:51:21.460 back and forth you we were still relying on FedEx 01:51:21.460 --> 01:51:28.859 and I had just had one of my daughters and Ed 01:51:28.859 --> 01:51:32.859 told me you know, like don't worry about mastering 01:51:32.859 --> 01:51:37.220 I got it or you know, whatever and I'd normally 01:51:37.220 --> 01:51:40.180 attended all the mastering sessions and the FedEx 01:51:40.180 --> 01:51:42.840 showed up at my house had the Mastering CD in 01:51:42.840 --> 01:51:46.000 it to listen to and almost all my songs were 01:51:46.000 --> 01:51:51.659 off the record so There was don't wait change. 01:51:52.060 --> 01:51:55.100 Yes son all

these amazing songs that were like 01:51:55.100 --> 01:51:59.960 hard heavy rockers and Don't know what I got 01:51:59.960 --> 01:52:02.000 told at the time I clearly agreed with it at 01:52:02.000 --> 01:52:04.439 the time which is you know I don't want to be 01:52:04.439 --> 01:52:06.439 revisionist because I really think the distance 01:52:06.439 --> 01:52:10.319 gear works as a collective but um that those 01:52:10.319 --> 01:52:12.760 songs just didn't work in the in the embodiment 01:52:12.760 --> 01:52:16.760 of the CD or whatever and So on that particular 01:52:16.760 --> 01:52:19.579 on that record I saw somebody write down earlier 01:52:19.579 --> 01:52:22.520 where fishes goes great I burnt that song brought 01:52:22.520 --> 01:52:26.500 that one into the world and then What's another 01:52:26.500 --> 01:52:30.420 oh and then they stood up for love So, you know, 01:52:30.460 --> 01:52:32.539 and really they stood up for love is the last 01:52:32.539 --> 01:52:34.960 time I ever really collaboratively worked with 01:52:34.960 --> 01:52:42.279 Ed. Wow. So that's such a killer song, too. For 01:52:42.279 --> 01:52:44.640 the last collaboration, and that's that's that's 01:52:44.640 --> 01:52:46.840 a good one. And it's kind of crazy. So there's 01:52:46.840 --> 01:52:48.699 like two arrangements of that song where it's 01:52:48.699 --> 01:52:51.520 like got that heavy guitar to it. And then there's 01:52:51.520 --> 01:52:53.739 like that stripped down piano version that kind 01:52:53.739 --> 01:52:56.180 of makes it like a like almost like a different 01:52:56.180 --> 01:52:58.010 song. even though lyrics are same, it's like 01:52:58.010 --> 01:53:03.689 kind of a different, a whole field to it. So 01:53:03.689 --> 01:53:05.909 let me ask you this, Chad, this, this is going 01:53:05.909 --> 01:53:07.270 to be a hard question for you because it does 01:53:07.270 --> 01:53:09.850 sound like you were so like, you know, live was 01:53:09.850 --> 01:53:11.529 a huge part of your life. Like the band, like 01:53:11.529 --> 01:53:14.050 you even said, like it seemed like family life 01:53:14.050 --> 01:53:16.369 might've been failing for you at some points. 01:53:16.369 --> 01:53:18.850 And what really woke you up was like the band 01:53:18.850 --> 01:53:22.170 leaving. So I kind of want to bring you back. 01:53:22.170 --> 01:53:25.300 Like, what was it like when Ed puts out this, 01:53:25.340 --> 01:53:27.300 I don't know if it was a tweet or an Instagram 01:53:27.300 --> 01:53:30.340 where he says like publicly firing you like that 01:53:30.340 --> 01:53:33.779 must have just been like. Well, how did what 01:53:33.779 --> 01:53:36.539 did that feel like when you got that that that 01:53:36.539 --> 01:53:39.840 news? Well, first of all, it's the most ridiculous 01:53:39.840 --> 01:53:41.380 thing in the world because you can't fire me 01:53:41.380 --> 01:53:44.800 from a band I started. So, you know, that's not 01:53:44.800 --> 01:53:50.060 actually legally the way it works. I but I understood 01:53:50.060 --> 01:53:52.300 from a spiritual place where Ed was at at that 01:53:52.300 --> 01:53:58.050 point. It was definitely a strange time. What 01:53:58.050 --> 01:54:01.970 I've been told is that there was a disagreement 01:54:01.970 --> 01:54:07.050 over a dance remix of Lightning Crashes. But 01:54:07.050 --> 01:54:09.829 I don't recall ever having a disagreement over 01:54:09.829 --> 01:54:11.909 a dance remix of Lightning Crashes, but I also 01:54:11.909 --> 01:54:14.590 don't remember Kurt Cobain remixing Smells Like 01:54:14.590 --> 01:54:19.359 Teen Spirit. So I don't know. I remember Eddie 01:54:19.359 --> 01:54:21.140 Vedder cutting off in the studio and creating 01:54:21.140 --> 01:54:24.380 that dance jam of the evening. It was awesome. 01:54:24.960 --> 01:54:28.119 Put it on every night. Yeah. You remember that 01:54:28.119 --> 01:54:30.699 great dance version that Chris Cornell went off 01:54:30.699 --> 01:54:33.159 and did of Super Unknown? Remember that? And 01:54:33.159 --> 01:54:35.460 then calling it better than the original. Yes, 01:54:35.460 --> 01:54:39.720 got it. Well, it transcends the original. Oh, 01:54:39.720 --> 01:54:41.180 it transcends. Yes, excuse me. That's correct. 01:54:41.460 --> 01:54:46.079 Oh my god. No, I don't know. You know, I kind 01:54:46.079 --> 01:54:48.880 of knew at that point, like the writing was on 01:54:48.880 --> 01:54:52.060 the wall that this is a strange thing. I mean, 01:54:52.060 --> 01:54:56.960 legally speaking. I mean, we could get together 01:54:56.960 --> 01:54:58.979 and go out and play shows as live. I mean, there's 01:54:58.979 --> 01:55:02.539 nothing stopping us from doing that. The only 01:55:02.539 --> 01:55:04.600 person that really can't do that is Ed, which 01:55:04.600 --> 01:55:08.180 is sort of an interesting twist to dueling lives, 01:55:08.180 --> 01:55:11.199 bro. We have to get this thing going here. Mr. 01:55:11.319 --> 01:55:13.579 Gracie and Mr. Taylor dueling lives. You guys 01:55:13.579 --> 01:55:17.039 go to the same city. See where the fans lie. 01:55:17.340 --> 01:55:19.640 See where the fans go. Well, I'm still not convinced 01:55:19.640 --> 01:55:21.460 I'm not going to show up and play these shows. 01:55:21.680 --> 01:55:26.449 I mean, oh, my God. Legally, if you follow all 01:55:26.449 --> 01:55:29.609 the all the paperwork, the contracts, the bylaws 01:55:29.609 --> 01:55:33.250 of certain corporations and et cetera, we're 01:55:33.250 --> 01:55:34.930 the only ones that can go out and play live. 01:55:35.310 --> 01:55:38.449 But what he's doing right now is not legal. It 01:55:38.449 --> 01:55:41.010 looks like I got to get on the Photoshop and 01:55:41.010 --> 01:55:45.649 remove those. Whatever is in the new live promo 01:55:45.649 --> 01:55:48.300 and put the real members back in there. That 01:55:48.300 --> 01:55:51.000 would be, uh, you know, and back, back to, you 01:55:51.000 -->

01:55:53.159 know, the firing of Chad, like, you know, so 01:55:53.159 --> 01:55:56.220 I was not happy with Chad at the time for whatever 01:55:56.220 --> 01:55:59.020 reasons that we are working through or work through. 01:55:59.840 --> 01:56:03.659 And I was told not directly by Ed, but an emissary 01:56:03.659 --> 01:56:06.500 that there was this big blow up about the lightning 01:56:06.500 --> 01:56:10.199 crashes remix. And so I, Ed came to me and said, 01:56:10.279 --> 01:56:12.340 Hey, you want to go on tour? I was like, sure. 01:56:12.420 --> 01:56:14.060 He's like, well, I want to fire Chad. I'm like, 01:56:14.359 --> 01:56:16.779 okay. I mean, unfortunately, that's where my 01:56:16.779 --> 01:56:19.520 mind was, but we've, we've worked through that. 01:56:19.840 --> 01:56:23.420 And, uh, I was like, yeah, let's go. And so the 01:56:23.420 --> 01:56:25.979 whole, the whole premise of the deal was I vote 01:56:25.979 --> 01:56:28.199 with you to fire Chad and I'm on the road with 01:56:28.199 --> 01:56:34.039 you. And then we signed the MOU and all of a 01:56:34.039 --> 01:56:35.939 sudden shows are played and I'm getting schedules 01:56:35.939 --> 01:56:39.119 and there's money and all of a sudden, no, sorry, 01:56:39.140 --> 01:56:40.500 I can't have you out. I don't want to deal with 01:56:40.500 --> 01:56:44.689 the drama. Oh, Okay. Well, that's not what this 01:56:44.689 --> 01:56:47.369 was supposed to be. And from my perspective, 01:56:47.430 --> 01:56:50.449 what I was told was that Ed, Chad and Patrick 01:56:50.449 --> 01:56:52.250 were going to continue three quarters of the 01:56:52.250 --> 01:56:54.869 original band carry forward without me. And I 01:56:54.869 --> 01:56:56.369 got to be honest with you. I was like, well, 01:56:56.430 --> 01:56:57.869 you know, whatever that's like, that's the way 01:56:57.869 --> 01:57:01.890 it goes. And I was also told, you know, it would 01:57:01.890 --> 01:57:03.729 be like a cooling off time period or something 01:57:03.729 --> 01:57:07.109 like that. So I gave my consent in that regard 01:57:07.109 --> 01:57:09.350 because I thought it was more important that 01:57:09.350 --> 01:57:11.590 three quarters of the band go forward. And of 01:57:11.590 --> 01:57:14.520 course, Turned around and like next thing, you 01:57:14.520 --> 01:57:16.960 know, like it's like announcing a tour with like, 01:57:17.079 --> 01:57:19.760 I don't know Anything but three -quarters of 01:57:19.760 --> 01:57:23.340 the original band. So yeah, it's it's a shame 01:57:23.340 --> 01:57:30.000 You know, it's it's a difficult thing to Like 01:57:30.000 --> 01:57:32.539 I don't know if I put coca -cola on a Pepsi can 01:57:32.539 --> 01:57:37.319 is it coca -cola? No, I saw a good name Ed in 01:57:37.319 --> 01:57:39.720 the Kowal checks. I'm like, that's probably better 01:57:41.310 --> 01:57:48.250 You know, I understand. I think that our ability 01:57:48.250 --> 01:57:50.130 to be able to go out and perform these

songs 01:57:50.130 --> 01:57:52.310 for the fans and connect with the audience is 01:57:52.310 --> 01:57:54.010 something that we've each earned the right to 01:57:54.010 --> 01:57:57.289 do. We've all created this body of work and that 01:57:57.289 --> 01:58:00.550 we should all be able to play it. But my issue 01:58:00.550 --> 01:58:04.470 is let's just have an honest conversation. And 01:58:04.470 --> 01:58:06.939 that honest conversation looks like this. Ed 01:58:06.939 --> 01:58:08.899 doesn't want to work with you, Chad. He doesn't 01:58:08.899 --> 01:58:10.439 want to work with Patrick. And he doesn't want 01:58:10.439 --> 01:58:13.319 to work with me. And yet he wants to tour his 01:58:13.319 --> 01:58:16.619 life. Right. That doesn't add up. That doesn't 01:58:16.619 --> 01:58:19.000 add up. Right. But what I'm saying is that's 01:58:19.000 --> 01:58:22.039 the real honest approach. Yeah. Right. That's 01:58:22.039 --> 01:58:24.199 just being honest. But those conversations weren't 01:58:24.199 --> 01:58:26.880 had. Instead, there was like, you know, tomfoolery 01:58:26.880 --> 01:58:29.880 and trickery. Like, for example, one of the worst 01:58:29.880 --> 01:58:31.880 things that happened in that time period. So 01:58:31.880 --> 01:58:37.100 Chad, Patrick and myself, had an attorney, a 01:58:37.100 --> 01:58:42.260 guy named David Costner. And Costner was our 01:58:42.260 --> 01:58:45.779 attorney for more than a decade. And when I say 01:58:45.779 --> 01:58:48.619 our attorney, like he all the way back from The 01:58:48.619 --> 01:58:51.479 Gracious Few going forward, he was our representative 01:58:51.479 --> 01:58:56.579 and had nothing to do with Ed. And so this all 01:58:56.579 --> 01:58:59.739 these tensions like boil over everything and 01:58:59.739 --> 01:59:03.579 the band's manager. whatever, sent me an email 01:59:03.579 --> 01:59:05.460 and said this guy Dave Costner was going to reach 01:59:05.460 --> 01:59:07.539 out to have a conversation. Well, I thought my 01:59:07.539 --> 01:59:10.479 attorney was calling me. So of course I took 01:59:10.479 --> 01:59:13.600 the call. But it turns out he wasn't representing 01:59:13.600 --> 01:59:16.000 me. He wasn't representing Chad. He wasn't representing 01:59:16.000 --> 01:59:18.260 Patrick, even though he put in writing that he 01:59:18.260 --> 01:59:20.899 was a mediator. But he was actually representing 01:59:20.899 --> 01:59:24.520 Ed and his company. And so he basically used 01:59:24.520 --> 01:59:28.140 that insider information to, in legal terms, 01:59:28.479 --> 01:59:32.640 induce this agreement. And it was like, as long 01:59:32.640 --> 01:59:35.340 as this hand doesn't know what this hand is doing, 01:59:35.640 --> 01:59:38.899 I'll get my way. So we'll tell Taylor 3 quarters 01:59:38.899 --> 01:59:42.079 of the band is going to tour. And then we'll 01:59:42.079 --> 01:59:44.220 tell the other side that Taylor's going out, 01:59:44.260 --> 01:59:46.960 whatever, he's out of the band, et cetera. They 01:59:46.960 --> 01:59:49.500 sign agreements and suddenly you're all fucked. 01:59:50.000 --> 01:59:52.939 Yep. Yep. And it's called sleight of hand, but 01:59:52.939 --> 01:59:55.939 in legal terms, it's actually called fraud. Yeah, 01:59:56.060 --> 02:00:00.720 exactly. And in like a personal term, it's called 02:00:00.720 --> 02:00:03.060 being a douchebag and a fucking shitty friend. 02:00:03.239 --> 02:00:05.560 But that's just my words. Don't don't don't quote 02:00:05.560 --> 02:00:09.789 me here, folks. It's just crazy. I mean, like, 02:00:09.850 --> 02:00:12.649 I wouldn't do that to like my worst enemy. Like, 02:00:12.649 --> 02:00:15.510 you know, if it just, it just seems crazy to 02:00:15.510 --> 02:00:18.050 do it to three dudes that you grew up with and 02:00:18.050 --> 02:00:20.210 made beautiful music with, but that's neither 02:00:20.210 --> 02:00:23.350 here nor there. I got a cool question for you. 02:00:23.449 --> 02:00:26.829 Do you have a favorite live album, Chad Taylor? 02:00:30.949 --> 02:00:34.029 I knew this would be hard for you too. This is 02:00:34.029 --> 02:00:42.390 difficult. for a myriad of reasons, Secrets of 02:00:42.390 --> 02:00:48.770 Mahdi. And I'll only say because it's the most 02:00:48.770 --> 02:00:52.649 freeing album that we made, free from pressure. 02:00:54.170 --> 02:00:57.510 We had catapulted to success behind Throwing 02:00:57.510 --> 02:01:01.829 Copper and everything from the writing sessions 02:01:01.829 --> 02:01:07.380 to... all these like amazing experiences making 02:01:07.380 --> 02:01:09.539 the record, the videos, everything we were doing, 02:01:10.279 --> 02:01:15.079 we're all just the way that we wanted it. It 02:01:15.079 --> 02:01:16.960 really did congeal and it really did. And there 02:01:16.960 --> 02:01:20.220 was no telling us no. And we weren't really fighting 02:01:20.220 --> 02:01:22.760 each other. We weren't fighting the system. We 02:01:22.760 --> 02:01:28.240 were just together. It was very, very... Amazing 02:01:28.240 --> 02:01:30.539 blissful experience and that's so that's not 02:01:30.539 --> 02:01:32.380 really about the songs or putting them on the 02:01:32.380 --> 02:01:34.819 way they sound although you guys had on Tom Lord 02:01:34.819 --> 02:01:37.260 algae and he tells you the story about you know 02:01:37.260 --> 02:01:41.920 mixing in New York City and It's the only live 02:01:41.920 --> 02:01:44.739 record that Tom well now that's true because 02:01:44.739 --> 02:01:49.640 he he mixed around copper actually in Wisconsin 02:01:49.640 --> 02:01:52.300 oh shoot now that I think about it. So we got 02:01:52.300 --> 02:01:55.689 Tom out of his home base in Miami I think that 02:01:55.689 --> 02:01:57.810 was good for both Ron Copper and for Secrets 02:01:57.810 --> 02:02:00.590 of Mahdi, now that I think about it. And of course, 02:02:00.710 --> 02:02:04.869 his influence on those records is insurmountable 02:02:04.869 -->

02:02:07.670 and just the tones and everything that's on Secrets 02:02:07.670 --> 02:02:11.529 of Mahdi and the purity. I know I was at my very, 02:02:11.529 --> 02:02:15.069 very, very, very best on that record. Jack Gracie 02:02:15.069 --> 02:02:17.609 was his very, very, very best. Patrick is his 02:02:17.609 --> 02:02:19.890 very, very best. And Ed was at his very, very, 02:02:19.890 --> 02:02:23.819 very best. And like that's... Rare when you get 02:02:23.819 --> 02:02:26.520 that when it can all come together When the pressures 02:02:26.520 --> 02:02:28.800 of life and manhood and all the things that come 02:02:28.800 --> 02:02:31.979 with having families and all that You know difficult 02:02:31.979 --> 02:02:36.220 stuff it that wasn't pounding down on us so much 02:02:36.220 --> 02:02:39.819 well well said and And you guys were in like 02:02:39.819 --> 02:02:42.380 a fucking real difficult spot to to come off 02:02:42.380 --> 02:02:44.859 the major success you had with throwing copper 02:02:44.859 --> 02:02:47.159 like everybody's expecting you to put out this 02:02:47.159 --> 02:02:49.659 banging third album. And you guys definitely 02:02:49.659 --> 02:02:51.359 delivered on it. But there must have been an 02:02:51.359 --> 02:02:53.079 intense amount of pressure. But it seems like 02:02:53.079 --> 02:02:55.319 it rolled right off your guys back and you were 02:02:55.319 --> 02:02:57.659 firing on all cylinders at that particular moment 02:02:57.659 --> 02:03:03.800 in time somehow. Chatty, what was your experience 02:03:03.800 --> 02:03:06.840 with Seeker's body? I'm just curious. Oh, I mean, 02:03:06.899 --> 02:03:10.369 I was. thinking exactly what you said. Like we 02:03:10.369 --> 02:03:13.189 had all that success and everyone thought everyone's 02:03:13.189 --> 02:03:14.930 perception is that we had all this pressure from 02:03:14.930 --> 02:03:18.010 the record company. But we we didn't. We were 02:03:18.010 --> 02:03:21.869 like we were I think the way we were. I mean, 02:03:21.869 --> 02:03:23.649 we were a little probably all had a little ego 02:03:23.649 --> 02:03:25.930 and like we fucking blow up. We were huge and 02:03:25.930 --> 02:03:27.729 like, yeah, we're going to make a record, but 02:03:27.729 --> 02:03:29.590 we're going to make it our way. That's not ego. 02:03:29.729 --> 02:03:31.789 That's confidence. That sounds like confidence 02:03:31.789 --> 02:03:35.449 to me. This is not sure. Yeah. But that secret 02:03:35.449 --> 02:03:37.720 somebody is my favorite record, too. for a lot 02:03:37.720 --> 02:03:41.420 of those reasons and I just had never put it 02:03:41.420 --> 02:03:45.060 into those words but I echoed that. I can remember 02:03:45.060 --> 02:03:48.420 very specifically we did a writing session really 02:03:48.420 --> 02:03:51.439 more of an arrangement session where we had gone 02:03:51.439 --> 02:03:55.899 into the chameleon club while no one was in there 02:03:55.899 --> 02:03:58.399 and we had set up

on the floor of the chameleon 02:03:58.399 --> 02:04:01.399 not the stage. We asked Rich Rue off the owner 02:04:01.399 --> 02:04:04.640 if we could play in there and Ed had written 02:04:04.640 --> 02:04:10.199 Graze. and We hit the freaking chorus of that 02:04:10.199 --> 02:04:14.399 song and I am telling you I Believe for at least 02:04:14.399 --> 02:04:17.840 two minutes. I floated off the ground That it 02:04:17.840 --> 02:04:21.100 was so magical the way all the instruments congealed 02:04:21.100 --> 02:04:24.380 I it was it's still earth -shattering Actually, 02:04:24.380 --> 02:04:26.380 it's kind of funny because I would tell you it's 02:04:26.380 --> 02:04:28.159 the record that I listen to the least because 02:04:28.159 --> 02:04:31.899 when I hear that I'm like, how do you fuck that 02:04:31.899 --> 02:04:37.020 up? like how Like, we had the secret, secret, 02:04:37.020 --> 02:04:40.460 secret, secret sauce. Yeah. And I blame each 02:04:40.460 --> 02:04:42.720 of us. You know, like, John, you're like, oh, 02:04:42.819 --> 02:04:44.619 you know, whatever you, I get it, you'll pick 02:04:44.619 --> 02:04:46.699 on Ed or whatever. I'm not picking on him. His 02:04:46.699 --> 02:04:48.460 circumstances or whatever his circumstances. 02:04:48.899 --> 02:04:51.079 I'm saying as a collective, how do we let each 02:04:51.079 --> 02:04:52.880 other down? How do we let the fans down? How 02:04:52.880 --> 02:04:56.119 do we ever let go of that? Like, you have, like, 02:04:56.250 --> 02:04:59.170 in sports terms, you have the championship team. 02:04:59.350 --> 02:05:01.289 It's the same coach. It's the same players. It's 02:05:01.289 --> 02:05:03.810 all those things. But for whatever reason, you're 02:05:03.810 --> 02:05:05.890 suddenly the Boston Celtics and you can't duplicate 02:05:05.890 --> 02:05:09.770 it. Yeah. Well, it just shows the progression 02:05:09.770 --> 02:05:12.609 you guys were on to go from mental jewelry to 02:05:12.609 --> 02:05:15.210 throwing copper to secret Samadhi. And they just 02:05:15.210 --> 02:05:17.869 keep getting incrementally better. It shows you 02:05:17.869 --> 02:05:20.470 guys were working with the right formula and 02:05:20.470 --> 02:05:23.659 whatever was going on. The magic was there. And, 02:05:23.720 --> 02:05:25.279 and the fact that you guys weren't feeling the 02:05:25.279 --> 02:05:28.140 pressures is like, it looked like Chad mentioned 02:05:28.140 --> 02:05:30.119 ego, but I think it's just your confidence. Cause 02:05:30.119 --> 02:05:32.539 you guys knew what you were doing was legit. 02:05:32.659 --> 02:05:35.279 And you know, how could you not be confident 02:05:35.279 --> 02:05:38.600 with it? I just realized my computer battery 02:05:38.600 --> 02:05:41.239 is on 2%. I want to go and run and get my chart. 02:05:41.619 --> 02:05:45.930 Yeah. I got to go pick up Phoenix from schools. 02:05:46.210 --> 02:05:48.109 I want to play the last two voicemails for the 02:05:48.109 --> 02:05:50.229

audience and then we'll end this. We'll wind 02:05:50.229 --> 02:05:51.789 it down real quick. You play that. I'm going 02:05:51.789 --> 02:05:53.289 to be listening. I'm going to get the power so 02:05:53.289 --> 02:05:57.409 it doesn't just turn off. Rock on. All right, 02:05:57.489 --> 02:06:00.090 ladies and gentlemen, two of three voicemails 02:06:00.090 --> 02:06:03.789 going on right now. And I almost click the play 02:06:03.789 --> 02:06:11.310 button on the wrong screen. Here we go. Hello, 02:06:11.609 --> 02:06:14.989 John. Hello to the Chads and hello to the gracious 02:06:14.989 --> 02:06:18.689 audience. This is Troy Garman checking in. Troy. 02:06:18.869 --> 02:06:22.829 Big fan, as a lot of you probably know by this 02:06:22.829 --> 02:06:25.670 point. Did not have the opportunity to meet Mr. 02:06:25.829 --> 02:06:27.789 Taylor. I hope I can sometime in the future. 02:06:29.689 --> 02:06:32.090 I'm happy that you guys are mending fences. It 02:06:32.090 --> 02:06:35.270 gives us fans hope that there could be more music 02:06:35.270 --> 02:06:38.229 and collaboration in the future. And I would 02:06:38.229 --> 02:06:43.039 also like to wish Chad Taylor success and his 02:06:43.039 --> 02:06:45.520 sobriety journey and I hope everything is going 02:06:45.520 --> 02:06:49.720 well with that and My question or I guess comment 02:06:49.720 --> 02:06:54.560 might be As I've talked with mr. Gracie about 02:06:54.560 --> 02:06:57.420 some of the songs that have been written it seemed 02:06:57.420 --> 02:06:59.579 to have the ones that I seem to like the most 02:06:59.579 --> 02:07:01.720 always had a lot of Chad Taylor touch on them 02:07:01.720 --> 02:07:04.819 and I was just wondering how many songs are still 02:07:04.819 --> 02:07:06.180 sitting out there that could have been part of 02:07:06.180 --> 02:07:09.619 the live catalog that We did not get the opportunity 02:07:09.619 --> 02:07:12.579 to hear So I'd love to hear your responses to 02:07:12.579 --> 02:07:16.640 that Thanks guys. Best of luck and Thank you 02:07:16.640 --> 02:07:18.579 guys for all the music you put out there really 02:07:18.579 --> 02:07:25.880 appreciate it Troy Garman good stuff there Well, 02:07:25.939 --> 02:07:28.439 so Troy brings up an interesting topic which 02:07:28.439 --> 02:07:33.220 is Gracie and I've been in conversations about 02:07:33.220 --> 02:07:37.180 Doing a podcast where we would unearth the live 02:07:37.180 --> 02:07:46.520 musical archive Yes, I Mean there's You know, 02:07:46.659 --> 02:07:51.399 I don't know 20 albums worth of songs it's a 02:07:51.399 --> 02:07:57.800 lot it's an awful lot Wow, it's um You know, 02:07:57.800 --> 02:07:59.840 it's probably not the size of Prince's vault, 02:07:59.840 --> 02:08:05.000 but yet it's an enormous archive and You know, 02:08:05.000 --> 02:08:09.229 it's never seen the light of day And you know, 02:08:09.250 --> 02:08:13.069 we've been talking about just like doing this, 02:08:13.069 --> 02:08:15.710 you know, sort of like semi chronological thing 02:08:15.710 --> 02:08:18.050 where we would pull out tracks and tunes and 02:08:18.050 --> 02:08:20.850 like, you know, play them and have people, you 02:08:20.850 --> 02:08:25.329 know, call in and, you know, get involved, you 02:08:25.329 --> 02:08:27.850 know, with the music. These aren't, you know, 02:08:27.949 --> 02:08:33.189 by any means finished pieces. So, and there's 02:08:33.189 --> 02:08:37.380 like, I have like, for example, in my collection 02:08:37.380 --> 02:08:40.960 like the early CBGB's cassette tapes from the 02:08:40.960 --> 02:08:43.260 board like from when we were public affection 02:08:43.260 --> 02:08:47.600 and like before like it was even live I have 02:08:47.600 --> 02:08:50.539 I have in fact I have a cassette on a cassette 02:08:50.539 --> 02:08:54.380 tape or recording that was made in my parents 02:08:54.380 --> 02:08:58.699 or in my bedroom at my parents house of us playing 02:08:58.699 --> 02:09:00.680 and you know it's not something I would want 02:09:00.680 --> 02:09:08.680 to do I think what I was going to say is I don't 02:09:08.680 --> 02:09:10.380 think it's anything that I want to particularly 02:09:10.380 --> 02:09:13.380 put and release in some cases, but just to hear 02:09:13.380 --> 02:09:15.579 magical little moments like where we're growing, 02:09:16.020 --> 02:09:18.420 where Ed hasn't come into his own with his voice, 02:09:18.939 --> 02:09:21.399 or Gracie screwing up drum parts, or I'm probably 02:09:21.399 --> 02:09:23.659 playing wrong chords, or whatever. Patrick, by 02:09:23.659 --> 02:09:25.920 the way, always played the right stuff, even 02:09:25.920 --> 02:09:29.260 back then. But it's so funny. Everybody wants 02:09:29.260 --> 02:09:33.800 to see the Ruby guitar. She's packed away at 02:09:33.800 --> 02:09:36.680 the moment. Uh, and then also the other daughters, 02:09:36.859 --> 02:09:39.159 there's a Delilah guitar and a Scarlett guitar. 02:09:39.380 --> 02:09:42.520 And then, and then the girls get mad. Like if, 02:09:42.659 --> 02:09:44.979 as I would do the tour dates, if I took out the 02:09:44.979 --> 02:09:46.739 Delilah guitar, I would hear from Scarlett and 02:09:46.739 --> 02:09:48.479 Ruby like, why aren't you playing my guitar? 02:09:49.000 --> 02:09:51.819 Uh, so I have to give them all equal air time 02:09:51.819 --> 02:09:55.000 now. That's awesome. I love it. That's cool. 02:09:55.039 --> 02:09:56.600 I didn't know that. So the other two were named 02:09:56.600 --> 02:09:59.449 after your daughters too. That's awesome. I knew 02:09:59.449 --> 02:10:02.489 Ruby Lou, that's great. Yeah, they're all 1961 02:10:02.489 --> 02:10:05.369 or 62 jazz masters, Fender jazz masters. The 02:10:05.369 --> 02:10:08.050 black one is the Delilah guitar. The Fiesta Red 02:10:08.050 --> 02:10:10.710 is the Scarlett guitar. And of course, the Seafoam 02:10:10.710 --> 02:10:13.630 Green is the Ruby Lou guitar. Oh, what a good

02:10:13.630 --> 02:10:15.850 dad, too. So you picked the same guitars, too. 02:10:16.090 --> 02:10:18.430 So they weren't no guitar was better than the 02:10:18.430 --> 02:10:21.310 other. Yes, that's right. I love it, man. Good 02:10:21.310 --> 02:10:23.350 stuff. All right. Let's go to this last voicemail 02:10:23.350 --> 02:10:26.109 and Chad Taylor. Unfortunately, we're going to 02:10:26.109 --> 02:10:27.789 have to have you on again, man. The fans have 02:10:27.789 --> 02:10:29.710 spoken. They love you. They want more from you. 02:10:29.909 --> 02:10:31.770 So we're going to have to get you on here again 02:10:31.770 --> 02:10:35.810 for sure. Oh, thank you guys. I just want to 02:10:35.810 --> 02:10:38.229 say it's been amazing being on here. I'm excited 02:10:38.229 --> 02:10:41.510 to hear this voicemail. Did Oh, let's do, Oh, 02:10:41.510 --> 02:10:43.189 this is only four seconds. So we might not have 02:10:43.189 --> 02:10:47.810 much. Let's say four seconds. Oh, Taylor, you 02:10:47.810 --> 02:10:55.340 fuck. Okay. Well, here we go. Thank you for that. 02:10:56.279 --> 02:10:59.880 That's my favorite one. That mine too. Mine too. 02:11:01.819 --> 02:11:04.420 There it is. Mr. Taylor play us out. Who was 02:11:04.420 --> 02:11:06.760 that? I don't know, but we will look that up 02:11:06.760 --> 02:11:09.060 for sure. I don't know, but he's my favorite 02:11:09.060 --> 02:11:16.579 fan. He's probably right too. Uh, Chad also the 02:11:16.579 --> 02:11:19.159 podcast that we're contemplating and probably 02:11:19.159 --> 02:11:21.600 going to do with this. It's going to be about 02:11:21.600 --> 02:11:24.760 archives of the music, but also explaining like, 02:11:24.840 --> 02:11:28.520 as I said before, the chat has this amazing base, 02:11:28.520 --> 02:11:32.460 the spreadsheet of every day of our life from 02:11:32.460 --> 02:11:38.000 tours from 1988 89 sometime. Yeah, basically. 02:11:38.199 --> 02:11:41.140 Well, from our birth, which is pretty crazy. 02:11:41.359 --> 02:11:44.560 Right. I mean, we would spend time on that podcast 02:11:44.560 --> 02:11:48.420 going through like Sometimes going through days, 02:11:48.579 --> 02:11:50.000 like what were you doing on this day? You were 02:11:50.000 --> 02:11:54.060 in Athens, Georgia playing at this theater on 02:11:54.060 --> 02:11:55.880 the mental jewelry tour and Michael Stipe was 02:11:55.880 --> 02:11:57.939 in the audience and you guys saw him dance around 02:11:57.939 --> 02:12:02.159 on the balcony of the theater. Talk about stuff 02:12:02.159 --> 02:12:04.220 like that. We can do it by day. It's amazing. 02:12:05.180 --> 02:12:08.220 Yeah, I think we could have 3 ,000 podcasts because 02:12:08.220 --> 02:12:11.840 there are 3 ,000 entries. Right. Wow. Amazing. 02:12:12.359 --> 02:12:17.229 Anyway, so that's the idea. We are we're we're 02:12:17.229 --> 02:12:19.050 working on it and we're talking about it because 02:12:19.050 --> 02:12:20.909 we've been concentrating on other stuff right 02:12:20.909 --> 02:12:25.170 now, but But yeah, it is a definite possibility 02:12:25.170 --> 02:12:27.729 that's on the horizon. They are working on it 02:12:27.729 --> 02:12:30.770 as we speak They're giving you the the little 02:12:30.770 --> 02:12:32.590 inside information. Let you know that's coming 02:12:32.590 --> 02:12:35.649 up Well, that's exciting man as a fan of both 02:12:35.649 --> 02:12:37.350 of yours and music and stuff. That'll be cool 02:12:37.350 --> 02:12:40.289 to hear all the Bird's -eye view kind of of your 02:12:40.289 --> 02:12:42.890 guys, you know days back in the day hearing it 02:12:42.890 --> 02:12:47.069 from the horse's mouth so to speak If there's 02:12:47.069 --> 02:12:49.829 any lesson to be a summary lesson from all this, 02:12:50.050 --> 02:12:52.270 and I want to remind myself of all this, the 02:12:52.270 --> 02:12:55.010 most important thing is to let the past in the 02:12:55.010 --> 02:12:57.800 past. whatever's been done back then it's just 02:12:57.800 --> 02:13:00.279 done it just is it's over with it doesn't matter 02:13:00.279 --> 02:13:02.539 you don't have to go back over it forgiveness 02:13:02.539 --> 02:13:05.399 is the key i'm telling you it's the secret sauce 02:13:05.399 --> 02:13:08.039 it's the secret sauce to everything i'll remind 02:13:08.039 --> 02:13:10.340 everybody and i'll ask you to do the same say 02:13:10.340 --> 02:13:12.439 your prayers for all of us say your prayers for 02:13:12.439 --> 02:13:14.600 ed say your prayers for patrick say your prayers 02:13:14.600 --> 02:13:18.460 for chad gracy same for me same for john and 02:13:18.460 --> 02:13:21.729 uh you know because ultimately, believe it or 02:13:21.729 --> 02:13:24.329 not, those energies do come together. I think 02:13:24.329 --> 02:13:26.710 the fans have more of a say than us individual 02:13:26.710 --> 02:13:28.750 members, we wouldn't be here talking if you didn't 02:13:28.750 --> 02:13:30.609 buy the records and you didn't support us and 02:13:30.609 --> 02:13:33.289 participate. So what's saying that you wouldn't, 02:13:33.289 --> 02:13:35.989 you know, be that energy the thing to like congeal 02:13:35.989 --> 02:13:37.970 and bring us back together, you just never know. 02:13:38.890 --> 02:13:41.770 I love it. There you go. I always try to wrap 02:13:41.770 --> 02:13:45.210 this never Never say never. I always try to wrap 02:13:45.210 --> 02:13:47.090 this up with something cool, but you put it, 02:13:47.189 --> 02:13:48.770 you put the nail on the head right there and 02:13:48.770 --> 02:13:50.310 we're going to leave you with that audience. 02:13:50.649 --> 02:13:53.369 Gracious audience. It has been real. We'll see 02:13:53.369 --> 02:13:57.210 you soon. Thanks everybody. Take care.