النص الكامل لحلقة How Connection Becomes Your Superpower | Laura Jones (CMO Instacart)

a huge learning. And then the kind of lateral thinking of connecting seemingly disparate ideas to come up with something new, I think was the other way that I learned to wield connection as a tool. And I think those skills of connecting people and connecting ideas really became the basis for a lot of what I got to do later at Google, at Uber, and now at Instacart. Frederik G. Pferdt: Thanks for sharing that. And I remember you shared with me a story ⁓ when you were a student that you actually connected physically with a d.school. You put your hand on the container at that time. ⁓ take us back to that moment where you literally put the hand on at that time. The d.school was not like ⁓ an institution on campus. It was off campus at Stanford, right? In a container where ⁓ the founders really taught creativity. So take us back to that moment, how that connection actually happened. Laura Jones: Yeah, I was working and consulting by day and going to a painting studio at night and feeling like really disconnected between the right and left side of my brain. And I had this realization in my kind of mid 20s that if I could connect my right brain and my left brain, connect my analytical thinking with my creative spirit, I would be the best version of myself. So then I kind of went on like a journey to figure out like how I could do that. What would that look like? What careers were there out there that would let me do that? And through a winding path that led me exactly to this moment, I had heard about the D school from a friend. I grew up in San Francisco. So when I was back home, I went down to Stanford and said I'm gonna find the D school. at the time, and it sounded very official, it had a website, but when I got there, it was quite literally in a trailer kind of off on the side of campus with a, you know, just kind of a printed sign strung up on the trailer. And it wasn't even open sadly when I got there, but I did, I kind of laid my hands on the side of this trailer. And I just said, whatever is inside here, I think it's gonna change my life. And then I figured out, know, okay, if I want to go to the D school, which was not a degree granting institution, I would need to come in as, you know, through another graduate program. And I felt MBA was most plausible given my background with, you know, a degree in economics and a consulting career. I, you know, got, you I applied to the Stanford Business School with the premise that I would go and I would spend as much of my time as they would let me at the D school. And thankfully, They let me do that and the rest is kind of history, but I definitely feel that I was searching for that way to find that connection point between the two parts of my personality. And I really do feel like the D school is the first time since my childhood that I really felt those come back together and realize the power that that could unlock. Frederik G. Pferdt: Thanks for sharing that and thanks for taking us back to that first

physical connection, right, with an object but also like an idea of a school where you can learn creativity, where you can tap into your own creative superpowers. So thanks for taking us back there. connection gets used a lot as a word, right? It's been thrown like ⁓ a lot these days. So what does it actually mean to you ⁓ in on an ordinary Wednesday, April 1st? Laura Jones: Yeah, I think that it's an interesting question because to your point, it's kind of, it's in everything we do. I think a lot of our daily tasks are about, you know, connecting one person to another, connecting one idea to another. But I think that you get to a certain point in your career and acquired a lot of the tactical skills needed to do a job. then connection disproportionately. important. And what I found is that as you take on a bigger and bigger scope in an organization, you have more and more context, you have a broader purview. So Instacart, for example, is a four-sided marketplace. have consumers, shoppers who are out shopping for the goods in the stores, then we have our retailers and our brands that are on the platform. So it's a pretty complex business. And, I think that for me, I now lead the marketing team and the communications team and sit across this foresighted marketplace. So much of what I need to do is connect those dots, meaning see how something that might be going on in one part of the business might relate to something going on in another part of the business and bring those people together to sure that they understand that relationship and give them ⁓ the opportunity to collaborate. And so I think so much of is just understanding how different can relate to one another. And sometimes that's obvious and sometimes it's really not obvious. So one exercise I like to do is to force that connection. So to think about, ⁓ if there's feature I really like in one app to think about. what would this look like for Instacart? An example is I am on the board of Match Group, which owns Tinder and Hinge, which are both dating apps. And so you would think, okay, dating apps and online grocery, not very related, but ⁓ Tinder has launched some really interesting features like astrology mode or music mode where you can swipe based on preferences. And they've just announced this recently. And I was in a meeting with my team the other day and I was like, well, what would that look like for us? And it might be nothing. It might be there is no applicable Another thing, they've recently launched Double Date. We thought about that one a lot and there really was not an applicable corollary. ⁓ But maybe there is. Maybe it's me and my husband shopping together on our Instacard, ⁓ you can do through Family Count. But really taking that question of like, different models or patterns you see in one context and asking how might they apply to another context. So I think that whether it's through connecting disparate parts of a business or bringing in a new layer, a new element that doesn't already exist within a business and borrowing it from some other part of life, be it a different app, something from art, something from culture, asking yourself how might this apply, I think is is a big part of my everyday tactically, like almost every day we'll look at what is trending on social. What are the big trends on TikTok on Instagram as marketers? We really need to know what's going on in culture. And we ask ourselves, should we do something with that? Recently there was the Kit Kat heist and all different brands are jumping in on that. you it's a thing you look at, say, okay, like, do we have something, anything to add to this conversation? Maybe the answer is yes. Maybe the answer is no, but. I think asking that question frequently you more attuned to those opportunities and gets you better at jumping on them really quickly when they do arise. Frederik G. Pferdt: I love that question. Yes. How might we apply this in our context or how might we apply this to lives, to our work, to what we are trying to build here and trying to create? think that's a wonderful question. But to be honest, I think you're not just looking into ⁓ the obvious places, Like where the trends are happening. I think you're also looking in other places, Making those connections that ⁓ no else probably sees. How do you do that? Where do you draw your inspiration from? I think ⁓ the of like taking a Tinder feature and put that into a shopping app is a brilliant one. But what is more extreme connection that you probably have done or have you made in life where you see that Probably no one else could have seen that. Laura Jones: Yeah, it's a good question. I don't know if there's one big one. I think for me, it's a million small ones that happen every day. I think that that tool of how might we is the key. Because what I love about framing things in that way is it creates so much space. It is the most open-ended question possible. It doesn't suppose that you even can. Like the answer might be like, No, there's no there's no applicability, but it leaves so much room open. I think, going back to the D school, I learned that skill ⁓ asking how might we as of the jumping off point for ideation. And I think that has just opened so many doors in terms of new ideas and really of suspending disbelief and other another term that I learned at the D school. And so it manifests in big and small ways every day. I mean, I think like one interesting place that this came up was with the Super Bowl. This year, we wanted to tell a story that helped customers understand our obsession with quality and the level of care we put into grocery shopping, we are the pioneer of the category of online grocery. And we put more focus and energy into getting it right than anyone else in the field. And so we really wanted to own that message of quality because this is kind of a core distinguishing factor of our service. And so, you know, we're thinking, okay, how might we communicate

this? It's gonna be really boring if we just, you know, flash up our quality statistics, our found rate, our shopper quality, all of those things wouldn't really hold someone's interest in a 30 second ad. And so we're really thinking about, okay, how might we grab someone's attention? And we to the data to start to understand where do we see people's preferences being expressed? And for us in the app, it's the shopper notes field. So it's where you can tell a shopper exactly ⁓ how you want something. And the number one item for Shopper Notes was bananas, which also happens to be our most item. We've delivered over 1.8 billion bananas. And is the ⁓ item had the most Shopper Notes. And so said, OK, there's something interesting here. And we started to dig in. And what we saw is people saying, OK, I want my banana almost ripe, but not quite ripe, a little bit of green on top. Or I want it with brown spots because I'm making banana bread. And went, we thought about this and we said, okay, we people have strong preferences now. We could tell a story about how hard we worked to meet them. But then we kind of went to another d.school tool, Yes, and was like, yes, and but how do we even make it better? How do we take all the work people are putting into this and just make it even easier? And so we had this of maybe there's a to just productize this and to create you know, what we became the preference picker. So now there's a, ability to select the exact kind of banana you want. And, like we're sitting over here in marketing, our job is not to come up with product ideas, but this one ⁓ we so strongly about, we went back to the product team and said, we knew they had tested something similar to this in the past. And, and we said, you know what, like, we think this is ready for, for prime time. Let's like launch this, make a big deal out of it. and kind of reimagine what that feature could be. And they partnered with us and built it. we went on to then tell a story finding the perfect banana with Ben Stiller and Benson Boone. And it was a really fun and to your point, joyful kind of premise. But I think that there were so many constraints we could have internalized. This wasn't on the product roadmap. There weren't any spare cycles to build anything new. we thought we just needed to tell a story about kind of the existing functionality. But I think because ⁓ we able to go look at the user data to ⁓ have those personal connections to that product team to come in with a big idea and passion ⁓ and this ability to kind of connect the data to a story into an opportunity. we were able to kind of turn a no into a yes. And in the end, the product team was super excited to build it and we built it and it's working incredibly well and we're super pleased with the results. So yeah, I think that there's just so many tools that might sound at face value like, what is, how might we or yes and what does that really mean or how can that really help me in my day to day? But I think once they become deeply internalized, they can really change something that was impossible to something that people want to rally around and do because you're creating space for ideas and you're creating space for people to buy in and want to build something together. Frederik G. Pferdt: Beautifully said, yes. funny story, like we just had our first banana bread yesterday baked by my daughter. She's 10. And so we definitely saw the difference between ripe bananas and fresh bananas. And it just makes a huge difference, right? How you can process them and fold them into the dough. So it was a good reminder and... those two tools you're mentioning, how might we as a question that really gets you off the ground, And this podcast is called the future is how, So I think a how is really a great starting point for a question, And then adding this might really opens up the doors, The possibilities, Where you're not sure how this will turn out, but like you were asking how might... And then you put the we in that equation where you invite others to help you to find a solution. So how might we is one of the most powerful tools I guess we use as individuals in our lives, but also as leaders to lead teams to ⁓ something new. ⁓ then if you instill some yes and in it, and we did that too with the banana bread yesterday, when daughter ⁓ asked how might we bake banana bread? You know, I said, yes, and we're not just baking banana bread, what we adding chocolate sprinkles on top at the end, Of you need to do that. And then we had like, you know, my son jumping in and doing another yes. And what we could do, We can bake, you know, two banana breads or we can make one and give it ⁓ to our neighbors so forth. So you're starting to really get into this ⁓ adding mode, So you're not just adding ingredients literally, but you're adding to this idea. You make it bigger, faster and better. I think that's very powerful. thanks for sharing those two practices. wouldn't even say those are tools that are really practices that you can use, Start with a how might we, and then follow up with yes and, very powerful. ⁓ But take back to the beginning ⁓ of that creating an ad that went live on one of the biggest stages you can imagine, So take us back, is it like you went to a whiteboard and you sat down had some post-its and I think we all have these pictures in mind where you just kind of like brainstorm and come up with some ideas and then you connect some of those or like, how does that work? How do you really come up with something that is truly unique, that is creative, that connects so many different things from like an actor to like a fruit ⁓ to... ⁓ how it's presented and communicated. Just walk me through that. Laura Jones: Yeah, I mean, the reality is this whole process started basically five years ago when I joined Instacart because you know, don't just as a brand, you can't just make a rash decision to go to the Super Bowl. It's such a massive investment.

It's pretty much the most expensive media you can buy, but also some of the highest ROI if used correctly and used in a way that really people and generates conversations. So it's such a big decision and it starts with the brand fundamentals and really building a compelling brand. And then as well, the business case, right? Like getting the reps in of deploying increasingly large budgets and doing that in first the most measurable channels and then working your way up the funnel to really build credibility with the rest of the business that you can invest in. And when you invest that those investments can have strong returns. That's kind of all the pre-work in a way, the foundation that has to be built. And it's important to just state that because I think, again, on the one hand, it's 30 seconds, right? And it's fun and people laugh. But when you think about actually the amount of work and the number of things that have to happen over such a long period to even get to a place where you can make it out like that, it's really quite a lot of foundational work that needs to go into it. So then you get to a point where, you've built the credibility with the stakeholders, you've gotten a really good media placement, which is a whole nother thing, because you got to make sure you get a good placement, ideally in the first half of the game, et cetera. So let's imagine we've gotten there, now we're confronted with the blank piece of paper of like, okay, what are we going to do? And this is going back to the kind of question of the return on the investment. If you make a great... Super Bowl ad that people remember and talk about, you reach such a broader audience. know, on average, the past two years, we had 130 million and 125 million respectively, viewers tuning in. already that's, you know, a huge swath of American households. But even for people who, you know, don't watch the ad, if you do it right, you can actually reach an even broader audience through the social buzz and the conversation that companies and the media that accompanies a great ad. So that's really like what you're aiming for. And it's a little bit of kind of go big or go home, which is really intimidating because when you think about all the rest of the work that you do, most of it's not done in public, Like if I write, my 2026 strategy and it's really good and I give it to my boss, like I'll get like a great job, right? But like, you know. my fourth grade teacher or my aunt or my children's friends at school, they won't know if I did a good or bad job on that strategy document, right? Nobody cares, nobody knows. Super Bowl ad is the most public form of work possible. So when you put this out to the world, not only from a business standpoint, do you wanna make something really impactful, also it's intimidating because pretty much everyone you've ever met in your life, I I you grew up in Germany, so maybe not for you, but as someone who grew up in the US, it's like your entire... friends, family, social network, for the most part, will be exposed to this. So want get a paint that picture because I think it creates just a, it's a really different kind of creative exercise than ⁓ most because comes with a bit more pressure. So I think the most important thing to do in the beginning is to really just give this space to say, okay, we're going to give ourselves, ⁓ we have work back plan and we have this many weeks to get to a great idea. ⁓ to kind of create bit of a safe space for ideation because no great idea comes under duress. And when you think about like the amount of money on the line, the amount of eyeballs that are gonna be watching you can feel really pressurized. So step one is to kind of like create that space of like, okay, we know we have to get to a great outcome, but it's gonna iterative and we're gonna give ourselves this many weeks to get there. So once that's all then you need the right team, You need your incredible internal team. ⁓ year, in the past years, we've worked with agencies who come in and bring an external perspective. And we start with a brief. And as design thinker, I love a great brief because it starts with what is the objective, who is the audience, and really out the job to done so that the creative process can occur within the constraints that exist. and can be on message, right? Because again, you could make a really entertaining Super Bowl ad, but if it doesn't actually live with your corporate strategy and consumers don't know kind of what to take away from it, then again, you've kind of wasted a tremendous amount of money. there, once you have the brief, then it's really about iterative if I, I mean, if I think about this year's spot, the number, I actually just went through some of the earlier decks, I actually. was invited to my daughter's fourth grade class to share about making a Super Bowl ad. And I pulled out some of the early slides some of the earlier ideas we had. And it was a non-linear journey, even to get to bananas, which is what we ended up talking about and explained why. That a minute to figure that out. And then once we had bananas, was kind of like, well, how we tell an interesting story about bananas? And You know, in the end, what we came to is we loved the idea of doing something that would be, wanted it to be really memorable and funny. And because it was going to be about bananas, we realized it had to be bananas, meaning kind of crazy, kind of unhinged. And we thought, you know, a song and dance with kind a comedic angle about finding the perfect bananas would have an absurdity that would make it inherently memorable. And then it was really about finding talent that could carry the comedy and the musicality of it. plus a million versions of demographic analysis and budget, et cetera. We up with Ben Stiller for his comedic chops and Benson Boone for his musicality and his signature flip. And we did not go saying we're gonna make a musical comedy about bananas

starring Ben and Benson. We landed there after a very ⁓ you know, circuitous journey. But I always think that if you go into a process, you can kind of envision the outcome, like a little bit what's the point? I felt that way about my career. I felt that way about, you know, any big creative project I embark upon. But I've always felt this way where if you're just kind of on a linear path, then I think about my starting my career in consulting. It was so clear. was like you come in as a junior analyst and you work there for 20 years, you become a partner. And I was just like, Well, if I already know that's the path, I don't need to take that. Why would I take that path? I kind of always want to forge new ground. And I think same thing with creative. Going in, we really didn't know what it would look like. There was a minute when we thought it was going to be a musical about Ham, inspired by Hamilton. Needless to say, that's not where we landed, but. Frederik G. Pferdt: one. Laura Jones: I think that's what makes it fun a bit scary to be honest, because there's moments of like, do we even know where this is going? But that process of the team, trusting the process and being kind of delighted and surprised by where you end up is a lot of what keeps me excited after all these years to ⁓ keep making this kind of work. Frederik G. Pferdt: So I'm curious, what did you share with the fourth graders? what were some of ⁓ questions they asked, Because ⁓ I kind of like you come in and you're like a superwoman, right? Who like just created one of the most joyful ads in history and sitting there a fourth grader and you're like, how can I learn what Laura? does, how she thinks, how she is as a human being, how can I become a Laura Jones? tell me a little bit more about what you shared with the fourth graders, how they responded, and what did you tell them so that they go on a similar path that you just described, which is not a linear one. Laura Jones: It's a great question. I will say, you know, I feel so lucky at this stage in my career to have had some really amazing speaking opportunities, be it, you know, South by or can, you know, and have gotten to speak on, you know, incredible stages to large this one of, I'd say, ⁓ invitations. was so honored, first of all, the kids even were and wanted to ⁓ Frederik G. Pferdt: It's the hardest. Laura Jones: to learn about it. So that really was incredible. And also because the Super Bowl was in San Francisco this year, my daughter actually got to go to a few of my speaking engagements that I did. I invited actually my kids, my husband, and my parents who still live in San Francisco all got to kind of see me in my element, which was really fun because it's so hard to explain. Frederik G. Pferdt: Amazing. Laura Jones: to them, you know, sometimes what I, they all kind of know what my job is, but you know, why do I have to travel? What is it? Why am I going to Cannes? So that was really amazing. But then having to do that in front of, you know, 48 of their closest friends was a little bit more of an intimidating factor. you know, they're a tough audience, right? Frederik G. Pferdt: You don't want to screw that up, right? Laura Jones: If you lose their interest, even for a minute, it's quite evident. So I really thought about what I wanted to do with them. I started by asking them, why do brands run ads to begin with? And I will say the kid that answered it, I was ready to hire him as an intern. Because not only did he nail ⁓ why to educate people about new products, get them to try it, he also touched on the concept of return on investment, which I was like, wow, for a 10-year-old, that's... very impressive. I was thinking about, how I get this kid ⁓ a grade school internship? But no, it was really cool to see for even at that age how some of them really are interested and really get it. And then try to just take them on a journey of, again, why do as a company run ads? what goes into making an ad, you we all see ads and I think, you know, I think the status, the average person is exposed to over 200 ads a day. I'm sure it's even more than that for many of us. And most of them we don't remember. And, you know, I think part of that is adaptive. If we actually paid attention to every ad, we literally would be doing nothing else all day. And part of it is just the ads themselves, I think, you know, are not always relevant and don't always grab attention. And so I spent a little bit of time kind of on that, just because again, like every ad you see is somebody's work, And, I think again, not all ads are gonna be relevant to everyone at each time, but when you have an opportunity like Super Bowl where you know, so one time of the year people are actually watching the ads, they actually wanna see it, that it is important to make something really good because if you're someone for their attention, ⁓ you should make it worth their time. And so we kind of started there of just what is the premise, because I, to be honest, sometimes I feel conflicted as a marketer because people will use marketing as like a pejorative term. They'll be like, ⁓ just marketing or let's skip the ad, you know? And I get it because it can be interactive and it can be, and it can try to grab your attention at a time when that attention is not, needing to go in that direction. So. ⁓ I kind of wanted to orient them first as like a mental model to think about advertising, which for me is about be as relevant and targeted as possible so that you're not coming in and interrupting people. You're really trying to find them in that moment of intent where they do want to purchase and where your message is relevant. then if you're reaching them in more of a mass context, like Super Bowl, where you know they're not about to go pull out their phone and enter Instagram, at that point, the goal is really to grab attention ⁓ form a connection between that customer and your brand so that then later when you

target them that they're more receptive and more positively biased and maybe have a better understanding or more curiosity about what you're offering. I think providing some of that mental scaffolding I think is important. I would love to see more smart, caring people choosing to do marketing and do it in a way that is respectful, intentful and really honors kind of the time and attention you're asking for. you know, hopefully, I don't think they got the full nuance of that. But I think just this idea of like, hey, it's okay that sometimes ads are annoying. Sometimes you want to skip them. But if you're going to make an ad, you should to make a great one. And then really try to take them through, well, what does it look like to try to make a great ad? How much work into it? And really also just attuning them to how many different types of work there are within, you if you think about the Super Bowl ad and I actually pulled the stat for them of how many people were on set because they had a question about how many people had taken to make it. it was actually interesting for me too. I went back and looked and I think over 200 people within Instacart played a role in making the ad. And we had between 150 and 160 people at some point on that set. And it's everyone from someone who is, crafting the costumes to someone who is doing the catering for the folks acting. have the backup, the kind of backup dancers, the people are working the camera equipment actually are one the who worked ⁓ on the production the photography the project. had been ⁓ the, believe the DP for Sinners, right? So she like won an Academy Award this year, Autumn Arkapa, she was on our set helping us film this ad, right? So it's really incredible to, ⁓ I think, people to, hey, basically we're making a movie. The movie only lasts 30 seconds, ⁓ but that same level of production goes into this. And then even in post-production, there are people who are doing, the editing, the sound mixing. Actually, one of the gentlemen who worked on crafting our custom song has kids at the school too. And he works for the company that did the music for it. So just kind of saying like, look, maybe you want to be a marketer, maybe you want to be a CFO, maybe you want to be a musician or a director of photography. Like all these things, are adjacent to this and just kind of opening their mind to like the number of different ways that you can spend your time and the kinds of work that might be available, right? Because I think sometimes these kids, you can feel like, especially in Silicon Valley, like everyone works in tech and I think everyone's on a computer and you imagine they're all doing the same thing, but in reality, there's so many different skills and so many different paths. And so just trying to attune them to what those options are so that as they develop their own identity, they can figure out ways to find work that they love. Frederik G. Pferdt: So if I want to be on Laura Jones' team, I have to think like a fourth grader. Laura Jones: Yeah, pretty much. I really hate to return on investment. Just kidding. Frederik G. Pferdt: Perfect, I love that. Yes, but what are some of the other qualities you look for in people that you literally can start developing as a fourth grader, And then continue to develop in your life. What are some of these qualities that you were specifically looking for, In that very creative industry that, as you just described, has... opportunities for literally everyone, And every talent, like if you're a photographer, if you're a costume maker, if you were a caterer into food, if you whatever it is, So what are some of the qualities that you're looking for in people that love to join your team? Laura Jones: Yeah, yeah, I think about kind of skills and behaviors. I think, know, ⁓ ⁓ the skills are of what's necessary to ⁓ execute on the task at right? if you ⁓ are coming in to be, you know, a MarTech engineer, well, you need to coding skills, or if you're coming in to be copywriter on the creative team, you need to have writing skills, but then there are behaviors. And I think that's kind of the connective between the different people on the team. So that could be something like curiosity, I think is, you know, incredibly important ⁓ and that to, question everything, right? Because we're in such a dynamic, ever-changing world, especially now with AI, like, Having that curiosity to every day ask, ⁓ could I be doing something differently? Should I be trying a new tool? Like that, I think, is foundational. User-centricity, empathy, the ability to care about your customer, your teammates, and really being interested in people and what drives people's behavior, I think, is incredibly important as well. ambition, think, is another thing that when I look at my ⁓ leads and, you or just my team in general, ⁓ I think we're most neurodiverse team in the company because we literally have everyone from engineers to ⁓ photographers sitting on team, So it's this incredibly diverse set of skills, but the behaviors really, are to be consistent and ambition is definitely one that I think we all share. what love is that we ⁓ have kind of term, career defining moments and I challenge the team like every year, each one us should have a career defining moment. And I look at the people that I get to work with every day and whether it's ⁓ our executive creative director who last year said my goal ⁓ my career defining moment, my ambition for the year is to be the in-house agency of the year, which is this award given by Ad Age, ⁓ just one company each year who has the best in-house creative team. And we just won it and she led the team to that incredible ambition. ⁓ think that that of ambition or my VP of consumer who ⁓ really all of our Superbowl efforts and her level of ambition to ⁓ say we're not just gonna go to the Super Bowl, we're gonna win it. Like if we're gonna go, we're gonna be on the top 10 list, we're gonna be one of the

most talked about ads. And again, it's that ability to like envision something really audacious and bold and then go and make it happen. I think those things paired to the kind of curiosity, the like human centricity and the ambition come together in just a really interesting way. And that can apply again, whether you're a communications professional or you're a B2B channel marketer, right? Like you can have a big vision, use your curiosity as kind of the fuel there and then use that human centricity to enlist the people and understand, you know, how you can behaviorally get to the outcomes you want. Frederik G. Pferdt: I love that you start with curiosity as one of the most important things that you're looking for, And I think that's coming up ⁓ and over again when we look into the future. And interestingly, just right behind me, I have ⁓ this calligraphy that drew inspired by one of my calligraphy teachers, Gero. And it says curiosity and it consists of these two characters, which is woman holding a child, which stands for caring. And it's about surprise, this middle character, and then it's love at the end. And if you take anything away, care, surprise, or love, you lose curiosity, And I think it's such a fascinating concept. how do you... develop, teach, grow curiosity in your team, but also in your children. what is something you do as ⁓ a practice that really helps to continue to grow that curiosity? And you just shared one, which I love, which is like just having a career moment, Where you really do something extraordinary, And really having that ambition. ⁓ So what are other that you practice curiosity? Laura Jones: I love that question. It makes me think I should be more intentional about how I practice it. I think it ⁓ is something that in some ways, because I had that experience at the day school, that I just ⁓ think I internalized so much of it that it almost feels inherent at this point. But I know it it is a skill and it's something that I think I was exposed to and lucky enough to get a really structured process to kind of frame it. if I have to kind of decompose, like how do I think I bring that to bear? I think it comes back to a lot of the themes we've touched on. think one is holding generative space. And this is one I struggle with, to be honest. And it's something I'm always, every year when I think about like, what I want to do differently with Next Year, I always like, I need to hold more generative space for the team because I think, you know, a lot of our work we do remotely. And I do think that's something that can be lost if it's not incredibly intentional to create that generative space. But I think creating generative space, meaning space where you don't just have a meeting with an agenda and a deck and you're just like plowing through content, but you're saying, I'm gonna come with a few questions and we're gonna discuss. and even in the Super Bowl process I described, kind of giving ourselves X amount of time. I think holding that space is the necessary precondition. ⁓ And then think it's a lot of those tools from kind of the G school lexicon of the how might bringing really good questions. And a place that I've really been more intentional about this has been. my other board, so I mentioned I'm on the board of Match Group, which owns Stender and Hinge. The other board I'm on is UNICEF, UNICEF USA, which is an incredible organization that I have now been on the board of for three years. And I've been working with leaders there to, one the I've been helping think through is this of kind of innovation and how do we bring this big bold thinking that, tech companies have codified and been known for in many ways as part the innovation process. How do we bring some of that to this sector where the mission is to support and uplift and protect children and really think through how do we bring that same innovative spirit to ⁓ probably single most important question for humanity? been really interesting to think about, you know, going back to even like the work we did at Google with the garage or the sprint methodology and how do you bring that to an organization that has such serious and critical work, but still create that space for innovative thinking. And, know, whether that's with the team itself, we've worked on building out an innovation incubator where teams go through ⁓ the thinking process and can put forward ideas that go through kind of a selection process, some of which get funded for additional development or even just engaging the board itself. And we really thought about, we have this incredibly talented, passionate board. How do we create more space so that we're not just in every meeting kind of reviewing what's been accomplished, but how do we create generative space both to spur new thinking and also frankly to build that emotional connection and buy-in to the work because we all know the Ikea effect and the more that you feel that your fingerprints are on something that you've influenced it, the more you're likely to be excited about it and support it. has been, I think, just a really interesting case of thinking about what needs to change to create that space and so much of it. Again, I just think back to a board meeting we had very recently is about almost reducing the amount of content that we're trying to get through and saying, ⁓ ⁓ bring a question instead and let's really moderate that session and engage people and create that kind of brainstorm environment where we're gonna measure progress not in how many slides we get through but on how many different people on the team within this group are speaking with how many ideas we're able to generate and how much we're to build on one another's ideas. So I think it's that mindset shift from viewing productivity or work as kind of ⁓ a transactional exchange of here's my thing and I'm going to tell you this and you're going to receive it and then you're going to go and take it and do something

with it to a much more collaborative, generative one in which the goal is to say less, you know, a leader and use your leadership to instead come from a of facilitation and spurring conversation. Frederik G. Pferdt: So saw you've just been to Vietnam for this UNICEF project and bringing creative spirit to some of the there and just encouraging them and unleashing something in ⁓ that's... around their curiosity, around their creativity and how they can use their ideas to really a better future for themselves and for others. So feeling did you leave that with? So what's the feeling that you took on the plane back to San Francisco? Laura Jones: It's such a good question because I actually just last week, every few weeks, every two weeks, I write a letter to the team, to my team at Instacart and where we started on connection. It is almost always connecting something that either has happened at work or in my personal life back to the work we're doing. And, it is that kind of, you know, lateral thinking whenever I sit down to write it that you know, really has to kick in. And so my reflection on the trip to Vietnam was coming back filled with hope. I think that right now the world has a lot of challenges. If you look at, mean, wars, chief among them, many other challenges beyond wars, but just even focusing on that, have Ukraine, Gaza, Iran, all these situations that I think at worst can feel really hopeless. And sometimes I feel that we're destroying the world faster than we can heal it. And it makes doing work like UNICEF sometimes feel hard because you see how much children are suffering and it's hard to keep pace with the needs that are being created every day. You have a school, now that school is destroyed. Now kids that had a school don't have a school. It's incredibly ⁓ hard. Vietnam is... such a hopeful story because 50 years, was 1975 that the fighting stops. It's almost exactly 50 years ago. the country had had so destruction, poverty, just so much to overcome. ⁓ you look ⁓ within a now, Vietnam is on the path to becoming a middle-income country. ⁓ country has a goal to become a high income country by 2045, I believe. And even you look at, the work UNICEF has done throughout that process and how critical and supportive it in the most dire of moments and what it is becoming now, I think it again, really just gives me hope. You look at, you know, 50 years ago, and actually this was amazing. One of the people I traveled with is the current CFO of UNICEF USA, Michael Chen, and he... ⁓ was born in Vietnam and left as a refugee and actually received aid from UNICEF in a refugee camp as a child and then was able to move to the US, had an amazing career and is now the CFO of UNICEF and giving back. So this is his second time ever going back to the country since he left. And you think about UNICEF kind of operating in refugee camps to then moving and operating within Vietnam, doing infrastructure work. providing kind of the critical, for that country to redevelop and helping kids with the most basic of needs. Now today, ⁓ the government actually been able to ⁓ take over work, right? And so, you know, we visited a school where UNICEF had poured the foundation, 10, 20 years ago to help that. It was in a very kind ⁓ of landslide prone area to deforestation and climate change. And they kind of built this foundation and this play area so that the school would be safe and secure. Today, they're not doing that kind of work anymore. The government is doing that. UNICEF has been able to start to change the nature of its presence. Now it's working on inclusive education to make sure that I think minority groups are being brought along in the development journey or that inclusive education for people who have disabilities and making sure that those people get to have an education, teacher training, climate resilience. water and sanitation. the work has really changed. And now UNICEF is also starting to actually get from within the country. And as actually now I am transitioning to not just aid deployment, also actually being able to fundraise there. And I think it offers me hope that even situations that seem really dire can be transformed and ⁓ transformed through the incredible resilience of the people, government, the investment in education, the investment in infrastructure, and partnership of organizations like UNICEF. And it makes me excited to think that there is an exit path. UNICEF doesn't have to do for every aid in every country. It can come in at times of the most dire need and eventually start exit ⁓ or start change the nature of involvement to ⁓ being this more sustainable model. So when I talked to my team about that, I really drew back to this idea of consistent coupled with a resilient spirit. ⁓ In business, there ⁓ are hard things that happen. There can be things that feel like an existential threat. There can a lot of change. But if you build the right foundations ⁓ and stay stay resilient, then you can accomplish massive things. I, you know, to bring it full circle, I go back to the Super Bowl. I didn't just show up on day one and say, okay, let's go do a Super Bowl ad. You know, we worked really hard for five years to, or I guess, you know, technically it was, we did it at like the four year mark the first time, but we worked really, really hard to show that we, you know, could do these kinds of investments and really have them be a creative and put in a lot of hard work. dealt with things that were hard or surprising along the way, and then we're able to come to a really awesome outcome together. So I think that a lot of the fundamental human truths really are broadly applicable. And in a way, think the more you can change your context, like for me going to Vietnam and doing something totally outside of my day job or my normal family life, really reminded me those fundamental truths span beyond whatever function or specific place you're in and really can be broadly

applicable. I think hope, you know, is one of the most powerful, broadly applicable things we have because without that, you know, I think the future wouldn't a place we want to go. But I think with it, we can really feel like, you know, there ⁓ is path to take all of our human spirit and ingenuity and really like lift ourselves up together. Frederik G. Pferdt: Such powerful words, Laura, thanks for sharing those. connection together, And how powerful it is to connect ideas, ⁓ connect and connect things that don't seem obvious in the first place. And then talking about creativity and how we can ⁓ really our creativity with practices like how might we or yes and. You talked about curiosity and how we can nourish that. really that curiosity is probably one of the most helpful or behaviors that we can use ⁓ today's but in the future. And then you talked about care, caring about other countries, other initiatives, other people, and you can that care to... ⁓ around the world. And interestingly, all of those start with a C. So connecting, ⁓ creativity, and care. Which brings to one of my last questions, which is how do you take care of yourself to really be able to continue to build a better future with work that you're doing with the family that you are growing? So how do you take care of yourself? Laura Jones: It's a really good and important question. I think having a multi-dimensional life is really foundational for me, having the ability to have a family that I love, that is my core support system, have a job that I love, that is really tapping into my strengths, but also challenging me every day. And then having the space to explore other things and, bring that back, bring that energy back. the board work, and getting to do something that has kind of a broader impact and meaning for me. I love paint. I mentioned that at the beginning, painting is kind of what got me this crazy path because it's something that's very innate. ⁓ I have always to paint and it was the thing that me realize I couldn't leave creativity out of my career story. it's very hard to find time to do it, but I always have a painting going at all times and I paint a lot with my daughter and then you know physical activity, friendship, I think physical activity specifically warrants just a mention because I think you know it's it's something that is so important and foundational and I think I used to think of it as like separate from you know my work or showing up for my family but I've realized it's actually kind of like necessary prerequisite. I run almost every morning as part of kind of a daily ritual and then I swim in the bay ⁓ I can as kind of ⁓ big neurological reset and then just time with friends. So I think just having ⁓ a life that has those dimensions and viewing them not as kind of competing with each other for time but really like ⁓ all inputs and ⁓ again of things that ⁓ the is greater than the parts of like running is the time when I often have my best business ideas because I have a quieter mind or painting is how I refresh my kind of inner energy. ⁓ Being with friends, I often have ideas that I can bring back to my family or my work. ⁓ So I think again, like as a lateral thinker, having a few different ways that I spend my time and then trying to really like. connect them all and get that value is huge. And I'll offer one practical tip that I learned Jennifer Ocker at GSB and she also teaches at the D school. She gave a really cool framework to think about this, is basically of like, let's say you have six or seven of these priorities, work, family, your relationship with your spouse, physical activity, friendship, art, let's say. So those are six things. looking for what she called the double and triple plays or the home runs within it. So finding things that you can get, you can touch on multiple of those things that you value at once. So painting with my daughter would be a double play because I love to paint, she loves to paint, and we get to do that together. Or going for a swim with my husband and some friends would be a triple play because it's physical activity, it's friendship, and it's time with my spouse. So like really trying to find like what are the home runs I can have? What are the plays I can have? Is I think just ⁓ a practical tip for how do you fit it all in? ⁓ you know that those priorities, if you almost write them down and find those ways that you can kind of get a two for one or three for one, ⁓ and you know, it you to, think prioritize those things and to make the most of the time that we have while still kind of prioritizing your own self care. Frederik G. Pferdt: Amazing, such practical advice. And I love the... intention behind it, where you really find those ways where all of these things ideally connect, And they're usually very close to what we experience throughout lives. So thanks for sharing that. I wanna shift the energy little bit and do a fast future round. So a rapid fire round. Laura Jones: Okay. Frederik G. Pferdt: So just quick instinctive answers about the future we are all creating together. So first things that come to mind. First question would be, what's one thing people could stop doing tomorrow that would make the future better immediately? Laura Jones: Comparing themselves to others. think that the more we, know, comparison is the thief of joy. And I think just people spent more time connecting with themselves. And I say this like to myself also, I think the more we can all just be true to ourselves and march our own path and not spend so much energy comparing to others, I think we would be relieved of. a great mental burden. Frederik G. Pferdt: What does a more connected world actually feel like in your body, not on a screen? Laura Jones: think a more connected world feels like a calm energy. I think that's the thing that I'm always craving is that feeling. It's like a great matcha. It's like energy, but calm. It's like that sense of like, I sparked

that ambition, that motivation is there, but it's not an anxious one. It's one that feels supportive and that feels... Frederik G. Pferdt: amazing. Laura Jones: at the same time, kind of ⁓ mellow, still energized. Frederik G. Pferdt: Great. I'll enjoy my next sip of matcha. Thank you for that. Laura Jones: I know, I'm like also right here, yes, like with that, I have a sip of matcha together here. Frederik G. Pferdt: The most underrated ingredient for creating something that lasts. So the most underrated ingredient for creating something that truly lasts. Laura Jones: Okay, I'm gonna like just go to the obvious answer where we started this whole conversation, which is connection. I think that the things that last are things that make you feel something. You know, my angel who said people won't remember what you did, but they'll remember how you made them feel. And so I think things that really last are things that deeply with people and that make them feel something. Frederik G. Pferdt: What's your connection to AI currently? Laura Jones: think a curious one in that I am really curious about what it can do. I'm curious about what it can't do or shouldn't do. I am excited to see what it's going to mean for the world. But I think that curiosity, it blends both the optimism but also the skepticism. And every day I'm challenging myself to try something new to learn something new. some days are more successful than others, but I feel if I can always come with curiosity, then I won't get discouraged, you know, if I don't quite crack the code on any given day. So I think I am excited about it, but mostly just kind of curious, like where it will take us and hopeful that it'll take us ⁓ to better and a better place. Frederik G. Pferdt: If someone listening wants to practice connection more, not as a strategy, just as a way of being, where should they start? What's the smallest real move they can make? Laura Jones: I think asking questions, ⁓ going back to how may we, I think, asking questions whether if you're with another human asking them questions about themselves is, you know, a surefire way to begin building a connection. But even if it's just you, like going back to my kind of Tinder example, like you can ask yourself a question I feel like times when I've had really great insights about the future. I can remember this during COVID, I was working for Uber, I was leading marketing for the rides business and I knew that we were in just a, you know, obviously like an incredibly seminal moment because, mobility is all about getting from one place to another and now everyone has to stay home. And I have this memory of just meditating basically and asking myself what is going to happen? How will things change? What do I think is going to happen? And just kind of really tried to like envision what I thought would happen. But I think asking yourself questions is maybe underrated or like, with Tinder, how might this apply to the product I'm working on? Or I

see something, you know, that I'm jealous of that another brand has done on social, you know, shouldn't be comparing myself to others. But if I am, you know, what I'll try to do with that is not stew, but turn it into a question. Oh, how How would I have done that? Or what have they done here that I could potentially apply to my own business? So I think asking questions a great way to build connection. Frederik G. Pferdt: So I'll ask you a question, which is what question do you wish someone would have asked you that nobody ever did? What's a question that you wish someone would ask you? Laura Jones: Okay, well, I'll say that I think that a question I was asked, but I wish I was asked more, is that I actually think the Stanford MBA admissions essay question, what matters most and why, that was asked of me, I think I was like 25 at the time. And I actually just before this trip to Vietnam, I went back and reread that essay because, I remembered saying something in it about using my creativity in a business context and then wanting to make an impact on the world. And I had this moment of like, wow, have I just come full circle here? So I went back and read it. And I think that that question about what really matters is the most powerful one. I feel so grateful that I was asked that question at that age. Frederik G. Pferdt: You did it. Yes. Laura Jones: And I ⁓ wish that, I wish there were someone who would ask that, or I should ask that of myself each year, what really matters to you and why? I think that that is such a clarifying question. And I think, you know, for all like everything, you know, I've talked about like all the things that you need to do that I like to do and all the hobbies and all the things, it's like seven things. really being clear beyond just the activities, like what are the true values behind that and what really matters the most, I think, a question if we could ask ourselves that every day, we would ⁓ all be a better place. ⁓ Frederik G. Pferdt: Amazing. Last one. Finish this sentence. The future belongs to people who... Laura Jones: think the future belongs to curious. I really do. think this is a theme of our conversation. I think that the world is changing minute to minute. ⁓ rate of change feels like it's accelerating. And I think the people who maintain that curiosity ⁓ benefit. think children are the most curious of all in the future. mostly belongs to them, but I think for those of us that are no longer children, I know you have, one thing I remember a lot that you invoke is eyes of a child and that childlike perspective. And I think that at its core is curiosity. So I think those of us that can channel our inner child, stay curious, ask the questions, make the connections, I think future belongs ⁓ to all of us who do that. Frederik G. Pferdt: Amazing. So before we close, I want to offer something to everyone listening. A small practice inspired by actually everything you shared, Laura, today. So think of one person in your life. Could be at work, at home, anywhere. And ask yourself, what is this person really trying to create right now? Not what they're doing, what they are creating. And then reach out, not to give advice, just to say, I see what you're building. That's connection as a practice. One moment, one person, one question. Laura, I'm going to be thinking about this conversation for a while. What you've described connection, not as a strategy, but as a way of being, as a way of seeing, that's exactly what the future is how is about. The future isn't something that happens to us. It's built quietly in moments like the ones you've been describing today. In the questions you choose to ask, the how might we questions. in the person you choose to notice in the bet you make when the data isn't sure yet. Thank you for bringing all of that here today and for everyone listening. Your connection is already a superpower. You just have to practice it. Thank you very much. Laura Jones: Thank you.