النص الكامل لحلقة Inside China's COVID Lockdown | How Super Apps and Surveillance Controlled a Pandemic

live stream. And the reason they can command that rate is because 48 00:05:35.760 --> 00:05:41.760 they can look at the data and they can say, you will make more than $30,000 by giving me 30 grand. 49 00:05:41.760 --> 00:05:46.720 And so then those influencers are technically worth every penny because you can say then with 50 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:54.080 total transparency and objectivity, you're worth it. So how does this relate to COVID? So basically, 51 00:05:54.080 --> 00:06:00.800 I wound up looking and right away, there's a little mini program launched inside of WeChat that 52 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:07.600 shows a map of China and how many cases. And I guess they already had this idea from bird flu and 53 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:15.280 swine flu and stuff. So they are, the country is very used to closely tracking disease as it 54 00:06:15.280 --> 00:06:20.000 kind of spreads around so that you know when you should be concerned or not. So right away, there's 55 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:24.560 this thing. And you know, in my office, people are talking about it. I was like, what is this? And 56 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:28.640 they're like, well, you know, here's the map and here's the little mini program and they like text 57 00:06:28.640 --> 00:06:34.080 to a link. You go in there. And I talked to my CEO. He's like, what is going on here? And I was like, 58 00:06:34.080 --> 00:06:38.880 I'm watching the reports you're watching on the news. And I got to tell you that the reports 59 00:06:38.880 --> 00:06:43.680 you're watching on the news are nonsense in the Western news because this thing is not just in 60 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:48.640 Wuhan already. There's a whole app about how to people are really worried. And it's already in 61 00:06:48.640 --> 00:06:53.680 10 provinces. This is a country of like one and a half billion people. If you and they're 62 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:58.640 traveling all the time, if you think that it's somehow just in this country, you're out of your mind. 63 00:06:58.640 --> 00:07:04.320 So the question is not, is it out? This is January. I was like, the question is how bad is it going to be out? 64 00:07:04.320 --> 00:07:09.280 Yeah, yeah. What is it going to be serious or not? And so then as we found that it was serious, 65 00:07:09.280 --> 00:07:16.640 we had these, you know, conversations together as a company. What do we do? And so once it was clear 66 00:07:17.440 --> 00:07:24.320 that it was going to be a big deal, well, the app changed again. And so now in WeChat, 67 00:07:24.960 --> 00:07:31.840 when you would click into your homepage, there's a big QR code that's either green, yellow, 68 00:07:31.840 --> 00:07:38.480 or red in color. And underneath the QR code, it said a list of all the cities that you had been in 69 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:42.880 in the last seven days because it's you're being tracked. We're being tracked here. Everyone's 70 00:07:42.880 --> 00:07:47.280 being tracked everywhere in the world.

It's just that they don't lie about it there. They're like, 71 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:58.960 yeah, they're like, what are you talking about? You know, your data is gone. It's long gone. 72 00:07:58.960 --> 00:08:03.360 So, but they're at least they're honest about it. So they're like, look, you may as well get some 73 00:08:04.080 --> 00:08:10.400 consumer features if we're tracking your data, you know, in Chengdu and Sichuan, 74 00:08:11.280 --> 00:08:16.480 when you fly through the airport, you go up to the information kiosks, like the, you know, 75 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:21.440 sometimes it malls. They have the big screen that shows you the map of the mall and all the stores. 76 00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:26.720 You walk up to it. It's already scanned your face by the time you get up to the kiosk. 77 00:08:27.280 --> 00:08:33.040 And so the map just shows here's where you are. Here's where your gate is. Here's the directions 78 00:08:33.040 --> 00:08:37.200 you need to go. Here's how many minutes it's going to take to get there. And here's the food and 79 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:42.960 beverage options along the way. You know, and so it's like, yeah, they, you may as well make it 80 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:49.120 fun, you know, if you're going to take all my data and track me everywhere I go, 81 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:54.720 at least give me something for my trouble. So in China, they've decided that it should be a feature. 82 00:08:55.520 --> 00:09:03.120 And so it's like a minority report type stuff. And so I open my app and I look and it's got 83 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:10.160 this new QR code. And so as long and so every day when you leave your apartment during China 84 00:09:10.160 --> 00:09:15.280 COVID, there's a security guard at the front door. Now there's a security guard anyway, 85 00:09:16.160 --> 00:09:20.800 you know, all year every year. That's nothing new. And it's not, we think security guard is like 86 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:26.240 badge and a gun and some intense person. In China, it's just like some goofy uncle, 87 00:09:27.040 --> 00:09:33.200 ill fitting, you know, a little dark jacket. And it's just a guy with a clipboard and he might 88 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:41.280 give you a hassle, you know, and you know, it's, it's funny like we talk about in the states, 89 00:09:41.280 --> 00:09:45.920 we've had this whole conversation over the last 10 years about like community policing and what 90 00:09:45.920 --> 00:09:50.960 should it look like and what should it not look like. And in China, like they do have this thing, 91 00:09:51.040 --> 00:09:57.440 which is members of the community that are unarmed that just make sure that no one's causing trouble. 92 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:03.440 And then, you know, or like if you're moving, like if they see a moving truck leaving the apartment 93 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:10.240 complex and they don't have a move schedule that day, they stop you. Are you stealing a moving 94 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:16.240 truck's worth of stuff? A fair question. So anyway, so these security guards walk up and they've 95 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:22.800 got suddenly everyone for every building in the whole country have an electronic thermometer. 96 00:10:22.800 --> 00:10:27.920 And they hold it up to your head and you have to write down your body temperature, your phone number, 97 00:10:27.920 --> 00:10:32.720 your passport number and where you live. And then as long as you don't have a fever, you're good to go 98 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:37.200 and you show them your green QR code. And then you go to the bus station, you have to do the same thing, 99 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:41.120 you go to your office building, you do the same thing, you go to the shopping mall, you do the same 100 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:47.360 thing. So all in all, for the day, your temperature is getting checked probably like eight to 10 times, 101 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:56.000 you've been tagged eight to 10 times in society. And you've been cleared with a normal body temperature 102 00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:05.600 every time. So because of that extreme level of scrutiny, you know, by May 2020, I was back in a 103 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:12.240 nightclub, no mask, full house, like rocking and rolling, you know, having drinks, like people 104 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:19.920 meeting people, it was a normal experience actually in China. Now the way they could maintain that 105 00:11:19.920 --> 00:11:28.800 is that everybody had had an equal level of scrutiny, both analog with all of these checks and 106 00:11:28.800 --> 00:11:34.960 digitally with your phone. And then because all the phones are talking to each other, if one person 107 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:41.600 is then flagged as having fever, then you do contact tracing and all this stuff. But in the west, 108 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:47.280 the contact tracing is like, you know, you have to self-report and the data is kind of sketchy because 109 00:11:47.280 --> 00:11:54.720 are you doing it or not? In China, it's like you are getting reported. And the contact tracing 110 00:11:54.720 --> 00:12:01.280 shall happen. And you don't have any privacy about it. And then along the way, you also have this 111 00:12:01.280 --> 00:12:06.320 system in which you can have society that continues on. I don't know anyone who got, you know, 112 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:11.440 I was in China until July 2021. I don't know anyone who got COVID. I don't know anyone who knows 113 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:15.840 anyone who got COVID, except for one friend of mine that had family in Wuhan. I came back to the 114 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:23.040 States. I got it in 48 hours, you know. Yeah, because that was just it. So they had this bubble pretty 115 00:12:23.040 --> 00:12:30.960 well figured out. But of course, it's like draconian, right? And so then you heard these crazy stories, 116 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:37.520 like we had plenty of friends who, you know, the issue with

the contact tracing is that if one building 117 00:12:37.520 --> 00:12:42.320 would start to get a little sketchy, they would just lock the whole building down. Now everyone is 118 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:47.520 locked in your apartment building until further notice. That could be weeks, you know, and then the 119 00:12:47.520 --> 00:12:51.760 government would bring you a bag of groceries every day and like you'd better be able to cook 120 00:12:51.760 --> 00:12:56.800 whatever leak and fish and whatever they got. They're sending you. Oh, so they literally 121 00:12:56.800 --> 00:13:03.600 physically lock you in like you can't make the building was locked. They would install like, 122 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:10.240 if you came from like outside the bubble and you were like new into the building or, you know, 123 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:14.960 you were away in another city, but then you came back and there was reason to doubt your 124 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:21.680 health. They would sometimes install a security camera outside of your apartment door. That's 125 00:13:21.680 --> 00:13:27.040 just making sure you don't go anywhere. They'd put, you know, like tape seal around your door 126 00:13:27.040 --> 00:13:32.080 to show whether or not you would open the door and, you know, and they'd be checking on you every day 127 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:37.840 with like the local party official twice a day. You know, I came, I left originally to Singapore 128 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:42.400 when it first started to get a little sketchy in March. And then, you know, pretty quickly within 129 00:13:42.400 --> 00:13:47.440 like two, three weeks, I realized, ah, this, where everything is going to stop. Like this is just 130 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:53.520 where a big situation now. So I went back to China because at least my stuff is there. My dog was 131 00:13:53.520 --> 00:13:57.120 there and I was like, I'm going to take care of my dog and we'll figure it out. But then, you know, 132 00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:02.720 I was walking my dog just in the parking lot of my building, not going out on the city street, 133 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:07.360 but just in the parking lot. And then, you know, I got a phone call to my cell phone and I was like, 134 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:14.080 hi, who's this? They're like, this is the party. And we understand that you've been walking your 135 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:19.040 dog out in the parking lot. And I was like, yeah, I'm not going up to anybody. I'm doing six feet 136 00:14:19.040 --> 00:14:22.640 whenever. And they were like, no, you got to, you can't do that anymore. You got to send your 137 00:14:22.640 --> 00:14:28.400 dog away until you finish your two-week quarantine because you just came in from overseas. So like, 138 00:14:28.400 --> 00:14:34.240 people were watching me, you know, they were talking about me. I was, you know, and I had to send 139 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:40.800 my dog to daycare for a few weeks until we were good to go. But it was, it was gnarly. I had one 140 00:14:40.800 --> 00:14:45.520 friend that it was in a building that got locked down. And this was in the long lockdown. Like, 141 00:14:45.520 --> 00:14:51.040 some spaces got locked on for months. And like, some cities got locked on for months where you just 142 00:14:51.040 --> 00:14:56.000 can't go outside for months. Like, what does that do to your mental health? There was one Chinese guy. 143 00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:01.920 It was like a marathon runner that actually ran a marathon in his one bedroom apartment just in 144 00:15:01.920 --> 00:15:09.120 just in a circle. And just to like stay in shape, but like goodness gracious. And so there was a, 145 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:16.240 there was a friend of mine was in a building. And so they're eating like the government grocery bag 146 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:21.200 every day. And, you know, the front door is locked. What are you going to do? And everyone's got 147 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:26.000 their WeChat group chat of like in the building and hey, do you have any extra eggs? Do you have 148 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:32.720 rice or like, you know, chair and memes or, you know, whatever people do. And they got this idea 149 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:36.800 that they were going to buy a goat. And someone was going to buy a goat and they would just like 150 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:43.680 be able to eat some goat. Like, somehow they found some way to get an animal delivered. And so 151 00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:51.760 they they all like they pulled their money. They bought a goat. This like agricultural wholesale 152 00:15:51.760 --> 00:15:55.920 community base wholesale is like pretty big in China where if it's like whether it's meat or 153 00:15:55.920 --> 00:16:02.000 something like you in five households might go in on like the new, you know, whatever it is. 154 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:09.280 Like it's like we should have like a live goat. Yeah, they're on the air day live goat that got 155 00:16:09.280 --> 00:16:17.280 delivered to this apartment complex. So this is the big question, right? Is now we're going to we're 156 00:16:17.280 --> 00:16:24.160 going to butcher a goat and and eat this food. But what happened was that when the goat arrived, 157 00:16:24.800 --> 00:16:33.440 it was too cute. And so they just became the buildings like became a pet. It was the COVID mascot, 158 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:38.720 just like shitting in the hallway or whatever and going to apartment to apartment. And so they 159 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:42.960 would take turns just hanging out with the goat and no one ate the goat at the end of the day. 160 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:48.960 But that was that was very much on the on the table of possibilities. So what happens if you like 161 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:53.280 let's say you you're in a building and somebody in your building did get COVID. 162 00:16:54.480 --> 00:17:01.920 So then if if your building is getting sketchy,

so you have that green QR code. If if people near 163 00:17:01.920 --> 00:17:07.840 you have gotten it or if you have a fever but you didn't swap positive or whatever. And your 164 00:17:07.840 --> 00:17:13.440 green code turns yellow and it will be yellow for some, you know, X amount of time a week or two 165 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:19.440 weeks or just until the situation's cleared. So if you have a yellow QR, now you can't go to 166 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:25.600 mass public spaces. So you can't go to the subway or the bus or the shopping mall or whatever. 167 00:17:25.600 --> 00:17:32.720 You can go out in the neighborhood, but but it's better not to. Again, we're in a culture that values 168 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:38.480 social harmony over individuality. So if you are out with a yellow people will definitely be like 169 00:17:39.040 --> 00:17:48.240 dude, yeah, what are you trying to prove? So then there's that. If you got it, then your phone turns red 170 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:55.280 and then you are not allowed anywhere. And because all of the apps are overlapping and you have 171 00:17:55.280 --> 00:18:03.920 this like super app, it also turns off your banking. And so you so you can't like order delivery, 172 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:08.080 you can't you shouldn't in their opinion, it's like well, you're sick with COVID, like you 173 00:18:08.080 --> 00:18:12.800 shouldn't be out transacting with society, you should be at home. And by the way, we will bring you 174 00:18:12.800 --> 00:18:17.440 whatever you need. You need groceries, you need something, you need medicine, you need whatever, 175 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:22.800 we've got people on standby, just say the word, but like you are not coming outside until this is 176 00:18:22.800 --> 00:18:30.800 cleared up. And the big thing though is if you got it, you're not leaving the so basically if you 177 00:18:31.600 --> 00:18:40.000 let's say that that guard hits you with that electronic thermometer gun and if you have a fever, 178 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:46.480 you're not going anywhere until they swap you. Like you're not even leaving the line that you're in. 179 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:54.320 So you step to the side, a van pulls up two people in full PPE moon suits come out, they are 180 00:18:54.320 --> 00:18:58.640 going to swap you twice. And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, go in the man. 181 00:18:59.600 --> 00:19:06.480 Correct, correct. If you if you if you swap positive and go in that van and you're going to a center, 182 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:13.200 which is a giant, you know, gymnasium, a giant center and it's all lines and lines of cuts and 183 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:18.480 there's showers over there and it's like fluorescent lighting 24 seven and all this kind of shit. 184 00:19:19.360 --> 00:19:24.240 And so you're going to the center because they don't want you infecting your family and making 185 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:28.800 situation worse. So then you go to the center,

you're there for however long it's going to be 186 00:19:29.760 --> 00:19:36.160 until you can do double negative and then you can leave. And so there were crazy situations where 187 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:46.000 like, you know, somebody tests somebody tested positive in Shanghai Disney and they locked 188 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:52.800 front doors of Shanghai Disney with like 18,000 people in the park and had everybody stay there 189 00:19:52.800 --> 00:19:58.400 for like days until they could go and test through everybody and like everyone is just, you know, 190 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:07.040 they set up emergency tents and stuff in Disney. There was an IKEA, no, a Uniclo, excuse me, 191 00:20:07.040 --> 00:20:12.880 like the Japanese clothing store, somebody tested positive in Uniclo and they just locked the front 192 00:20:13.120 --> 00:20:17.920 door and everyone had to stay in the Uniclo until they could, you know, everyone could do double 193 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:24.240 whatever it got really gnarly. So like, you know, you want to talk about extremes in either side, 194 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:30.800 this is like extreme, you have no right to do anything you're going anywhere and you know, 195 00:20:30.800 --> 00:20:36.000 we're keeping you exactly where you are and like, doesn't matter what plans you had or what, 196 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:41.280 you know, whatever, it's you're staying, you know, you may as well roll up some jeans and take a 197 00:20:41.280 --> 00:20:48.720 nap because you're going to be in this Uniclo for a while. Yeah. And like that sucks, that sucks. 198 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:55.120 And so it got, that's when I decided to move, like I made it until mid 2021, you know, 199 00:20:55.120 --> 00:21:00.960 our company actually stayed the China unit, like we stayed profitable and cashflow positive, 200 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:06.720 actually for the entirety of everything, it was really tough. We either shift a lot of what we 201 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:11.840 did on the e-commerce and it was like, you know, talking about a massive change to an organization 202 00:21:11.840 --> 00:21:16.880 and, uh, but, you know, we, we managed to get through it and we had inventory to sell down to get 203 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:23.200 cash to pay salaries and we didn't fire anybody and nor was it like here, like alcoholism and like 204 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:28.080 consumption of alcohol and period just went up during COVID in the States. Is that also? 205 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:36.400 Yeah, everybody, it's so funny because I hear about everybody's US COVID story and like I 206 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:42.240 learned how to make Banana Bread and I'm like I was in a Draconian Hellscape, 207 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:50.080 no Starrer, no starter for you tricks. Bartering for goat meat in the stairwell, you know, 208 00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:55.820 building and it's it's just it was a totally different I mean every day was 209 00:21:55.820 --> 00:22:01.560 in harrowing trying to like keep the lights on and just cash week on week and 210 00:22:01.560 --> 00:22:07.080 how we're gonna do we saw it was interesting because it was like Tik Tok came 211 00:22:07.080 --> 00:22:14.400 out around the same time and so Tik Tok was this huge consumer platform they 212 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:18.080 did one thing that Tik Tok doesn't do in the States that they do there is is 213 00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:22.720 like direct e-commerce so it's a lot of like live streaming shopping it's like 214 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:28.600 cubies kind of and so you know we were able to do a lot like that it's 215 00:22:28.600 --> 00:22:33.560 interesting like it's funny people were drinking but I think also because 216 00:22:33.560 --> 00:22:40.560 people were at home and China is such a like home family together holistic 217 00:22:40.560 --> 00:22:46.400 wellness kind of space like consumption for a lot of things did go up but they 218 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:51.160 weren't like you know drinking like fishes like we were in the States I think it 219 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:56.840 was way more just again it's that social thing it's like we're right now we're 220 00:22:56.840 --> 00:23:01.960 in a health crisis so if you're doing things that are like anti-healthy it's 221 00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:08.160 like you know why are you introducing potential comorbidities or whatever 222 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:14.480 into your world and so like I don't know it was it was kind of tricky from start 223 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:20.960 to finish but it's not an experience I would care to repeat so you know I decided 224 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:32.200 to move I moved to Denver in like mid 2021 I was like I need mountains I can't 225 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:37.600 look at buildings I can't look at another glass building history and freeze 226 00:23:37.600 --> 00:23:41.640 and I spent like a good year and a half there just to recover it was it was 227 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.480 crazy wow