النص الكامل لحلقة Interest Based Negotiation: Looking Beyond What People Say They Want

I do think a lot of us, it's just natural, right, we just, it's easy for us to think [2:53] less kind of about this, even the storytelling of something, right, like, hey, this story that [2:57] I built up in my head is you want something that I don't want, and that's just oppositional [3:02] to me versus, hey, maybe they're acting this way for a different reason that has nothing [3:08] to do with me, right, like maybe they had a bad day, maybe their mom is now on hospice or [3:14] they're dealing with something difficult with their teenager at home, right, there's a lot [3:18] of the time. [3:19] There's another reason why we're asking for a thing or we're reacting a particular way. [3:24] So what kind of needs you pressures, fears or priorities tend to sit beneath with someone [3:29] explicitly asked for? [3:32] So fear, I mean, I think that's usually the main thing that is really kind of sitting, sitting [3:37] behind, right, so if I am going into a conversation with, let's say my, my boss, I know I'm my own [3:44] boss, but let's just assume I'm not my boss for today. [3:47] And I want to talk about, you know, a raise and a different employment package, whether that's [3:52] different benefits, maybe more pay time off, you know, my boss doesn't know what else is going [3:59] on in my life. [4:00] It may be that I'm about to have a child or I'm trying to buy my first home, right, and [4:06] I have these fears, or maybe I have debts that I need to pay, right, coming out of law [4:11] school, a lot of students have debts. [4:14] And so I need to be able to meet, you know, those minimum expectations, those bills and things [4:18] that I need to care for. [4:21] And for my boss, you know, they may not have those same considerations, right? [4:25] They want to make certain that I'm somebody who's committed not just to a paycheck, but [4:29] to the company at large. [4:32] And so a lot of the time it's, it's really just, you know, fear or honestly, just things [4:37] that we're not willing to communicate, or just don't even think about communicating. [4:44] And I think we need to go into conversations, being open and being genuinely curious about [4:50] the other side, which when you are curious about the other side, I think there's a genuine [4:55] exchange of and sharing of information that happens. [4:59] And speaking about conversation, how does a conversation change when someone starts listening, you [5:04] know for motivations instead of just defending their position? [5:08] I think it opens up all of the parties, it can improve relationships. [5:13] Even if it's a relationship that you're saying, hey, I don't need to have a continued relationship [5:17] with this person. [5:18] If you are negotiating with them, you at least need them to have some kind of follow through. [5:23] So you're building that relationship, building that rapport and that trust between the parties, [5:28] which is obviously helpful and it commits to better follow through. [5:34] But it also helps to create, I think, better opportunities and creating value for all of the [5:40] parties involved. [5:41] Because if I understand that, you know, something is important to you and you prioritize it, this [5:47] high on the list, and hey, it's lower for me, well, then hey, it's easier for me to maybe [5:51] make a concession, meet you there. [5:54] And maybe we also find something that we're both really passionate about. [5:58] Let's say it's like marketing, we're like, oh, this is something we didn't even think [6:01] about. [6:02] And this interest, why don't we talk about that as well and create some value for ourselves [6:08] or for our clients? [6:10] Which questions help uncover what is driving the other side without, you know, creating [6:15] that resistance or maybe that divisiveness? [6:18] Definitely open ended questions. [6:20] Usually they will start with things such as, you know, like, what, how, even why. [6:25] A lot of people will say, hey, don't ask why questions or be careful with why questions. [6:31] I agree. [6:32] And that just has to do with kind of like your tone and how, how it comes across, I like [6:37] a Y question. [6:38] Like, you know, Evan, why is that so important to you? [6:41] Help me understand. [6:42] Yeah. [6:43] Or if you want to change it, so it's not a Y, you know, what makes that so important to you? [6:48] Can you share a negotiation story, you know, based on all your experience where the stated [6:53] ask turned out to not be the real issue, what, what change once it became more clear? [6:58] So I think most of the time, I think where we see it, [7:02] often, is going to be in, let's say, like a divorce setting. [7:06] So I actually don't practice family law, but I've, you know, seen it and involved in conversations [7:11] and even practice negotiations with my law students. [7:15] And so you see the times, you know, the spouses really become very positional. [7:21] And a lot of the time it is, right, it's so what are we going to do with the house? [7:24] What are we going to do with this property? [7:25] But at the end of the day, a lot of the time, it comes down to wanting to feel valued, [7:29] right? [7:30] I did, let's say I was a stay-at-home parent. [7:32] I want to make certain that that was also valued, right? [7:36] Even though there's no like monetary amount that you may necessarily be able to put on it, [7:41] I want to know that I was valued in the relationship and that somebody, [7:45] whether it's the attorneys, the parties, can see that, hey, I created value for the family. [7:51] I allowed these other opportunities to take place or my, you know, ability to stay home [7:58] allowed those things to take place. [7:59] So I think at the end of the day, we all want to make certain that we feel as though we're being heard [8:05] and our value is being, you know, conveyed and appreciated. [8:10] What causes people to miss important clues about what the other

side actually values? [8:15] What do you think, why do you think that? [8:18] I think it's because we go into most conversations with assumptions or judgments. [8:25] And we aren't going into them being genuinely curious. [8:29] It's a lot easier, like I mentioned earlier, you know, coming up with facts or wanting to defend ourselves. [8:34] That's just kind of a natural state, especially if you believe that emotions will be heightened. [8:40] So rather than asking that open and a question, [8:44] such as, what makes that so important for you, Evan, or how would you prioritize this? [8:49] Like, help me understand that. [8:51] We go into it with kind of our own plan. [8:53] We've probably prescripted what it is that we want to say. [8:56] We probably think what we are going to say is absolutely brilliant. [9:01] But we're not taking into consideration the fact that this is a two-way conversation [9:05] and I should also learn from the other side. [9:08] Megan, how do effective negotiators explore the other side's interests [9:12] without losing sight of maybe their own priorities or priorities or their own objectives? [9:18] So going into any negotiation or difficult conversation, I would say you need to have a plan. [9:23] You need to know what it is that you're going into this conversation or negotiation for. [9:29] So I need to know what my ultimate goal is or goals. [9:33] And I also need to know what is kind of my walkaway point, right? [9:38] So if they offer me $100,000, but I have an offer over here for $120,000, [9:43] but I like the, you know, the environment or the culture at this company more, [9:48] I need to go in beforehand and have done that work to know, okay, what, [9:52] you know, what do I value? How do I prioritize my values and what do I need? [9:57] I think buying home is a really good example. [9:59] We've become really emotional when you're looking at homes and you decide, [10:03] no, this is the home, but it's outside of your price range because it always is. [10:08] And you need to really know going into that, right? [10:12] I mean, because that's a huge purchase. [10:13] It is very easy to go way above your budget. [10:16] You have to have that plan beforehand. [10:19] So you definitely need to go in again with that plan. [10:24] I also think it's important to try to do the work and preparation beforehand [10:28] to determine not only what your interests are, [10:31] but see if you can at least come up with a list of what you perceive the other side's interest to be. [10:37] You may be wrong and that's okay. [10:39] You'll learn throughout the conversation or the negotiation. [10:43] But I think that really effective negotiators, they stay open-minded. [10:47] They are asking those open-ended questions [10:50] and they're not inserting their own judgment or assumptions. [10:54] They are really just curious about the information that they're receiving. [10:58] When you do that, it's a lot easier to avoid becoming defensive. [11:01] If you again say, hey, this isn't about me. [11:04] This probably has more to do with them. [11:06] So let's just see what information I can get and see how I can leverage whatever tools I have. [11:13] So Megan, before we close things out, [11:15] what becomes possible once a conversation ships away from arguing over solutions [11:20] and toward understanding what people are actually trying to accomplish? [11:24] Definitely greater understanding. [11:27] Even if you can't reach a deal for some reason or another, [11:31] the nice thing about negotiations is that they are more of a journey. [11:35] It isn't just a one-time thing. [11:37] So we're not just sitting across the table this one time, most of the time. [11:42] For my students and their competitions, it is one-time. [11:45] They get one shot at it, but it is a journey, right? [11:48] And so things may change in the future that then do open up opportunity [11:53] for you to, let's say, work together. [11:56] So if you remain open and curious, [11:58] then you get to continue that relationship, [12:01] hopefully develop it or at least maintain it. [12:04] And then there may be opportunities in the future, [12:06] which can, again, create or even maximize value for everybody. [12:12] I also think for yourself, like your own self-development, [12:16] it makes such a big difference when you come out of a discussion or a negotiation [12:22] or even preparing for one. [12:24] I helped somebody earlier this week prepare for a difficult conversation with their boss. [12:29] And it's a lot easier for me to be objective because it's not my boss and it's not my situation. [12:36] But I got to say, here are some things that I would do, right? [12:39] You need to have these answers. [12:40] Do your homework, create the timeline, know the facts, but don't start with that, right? [12:47] Start with these open and a questions, trying to figure out where did their concern really stem from? [12:54] And is it about just this one thing or something else? [12:57] And I think when you walk away from a conversation, [13:00] and if you can reflect and say, hey, I did that, [13:03] and I stood by my values and I also gained information and knowledge, [13:10] that's just a win, no matter what. [13:12] Absolutely, wow, that's good stuff. [13:14] Thank you so much for your time. [13:17] Thank you, thanks for having me. [13:19] That's awesome. [13:20] That's it for today's episode of The Empathic Edge. [13:22] If you'd like to learn more about Megan Smith, Empathic Edge, [13:25] and their work around negotiation, communication, and AI-powered practice training, [13:30] visit EmpathicEdge.com. [13:32] Thanks for listening and don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review [13:35] so more people can discover smarter ways to handle difficult conversations. [13:40] And we'll see you all next time. [13:46] Thanks for watching. [13:47] Be sure to hit that like and subscribe button and leave us a review in the comments.