النص الكامل لحلقة Evolving Grading: A New Classroom Approach - E133

a way where it's a natural kind of environment for, for new ways of looking at education. And, and they're not going to be so taken aback or frightened or scared about what they're going to be doing. Rachel: 3:53 Yeah, I've, I've already heard them saying lots of things like, you know, chemistry is so relaxing and you don't hear those sort of things from students normally. Right? Like they're um, they're so excited about being in my class again. They're already super relaxed. They already know the drill there. They love mastery based learning. So it's, it's been just really sort of nice to just be able to get right into it with them. Yeah. Katie: 4:19 Okay, and so on that note, here's your first question. You ready? Rachel: 4:23 I'm ready. Katie: 4:25 So can you quickly define what standards based grading means to you and how you're using that in an IB course? Rachel: 4:32 So I guess kind of in a nutshell, like standards based grading, if you were looking for any kind of different definition is that you're grading students based on the standards. And so any sort of evaluation or thing that you do in your class that is graded is all very closely tied and linked to the curriculum. Katie: 4:54 There we go. I was going to say, you're using the word standard. What does that mean? Rachel: 4:59 well, standard learning outcome, you know, sort of whatever that basic topic is, right, that you're, you want your students to know and to be able to demonstrate mastery of. Now, like, there's a lot more detail in terms of standards based grading, and like, if you dig into the research and do reading about it or, you know, sort of really kind of deepen your learning around there, there's, there's a ton. in terms of what this is and what this means. I did go to a really great talk at the ChemEd conference in the summer and it got my wheels spinning about how I want to do my grading for my grade 12s. And that's sort of where I'm gaining my inspiration from. It was, it was a talk called Standard Reference Grading in Chemistry Classrooms by a couple of educators from Missouri. I, it works so nicely with specs grading. It's almost like the next step up from that. So it seemed like a natural progression to kind of take a look at what they've done and adapt it to what I want to do in my class. Katie: 6:00 And so from kind of the learning I've done and we've spoken about in the past, when we've looked at standards based, it, it's kind of this idea of a four level system, but not in the same way that we would traditionally approach it. So how does that kind of transfer when you're looking at the seven level system or mark band of the IB world? Rachel: 6:21 Yeah, that's it. That's where I'm kind of struggling with a little bit to be quite honest and So I am creating some master. I'm calling a mastery scales for my classes and the sort of four Areas that or the four kind of grade bands that you would look for I'm taking like the level Seven and six is the top one And then the level five and four is the next one, and then a level three is the next one, level two is the next one, and then level one is like not having enough evidence or not meeting the criteria for a level two. So I don't know if I love how I've divided it, but uh, I'm gonna try it out and see how it works really. Katie: 7:06 Yeah, that's always the hard part. Like how do you make one marking system fit in with. One that you're kind of tied to because you are tied to the seven level system, but Rachel: 7:14 Yeah, I am tied to the seven level system, and I didn't want to break down a mastery scale into seven different levels. Like, it seemed overkill. Katie: 7:23 Yeah, I'd agree with that statement. I do kind of like this idea of like a four level system and that breakdown Rachel: 7:30 Now, in terms of what I got from, from that talk that I went to over the summer, they had it broken down into four levels and it's a little bit different in terms of how they created their scales. They looked at, the skills of building up within a specific topic. So if we were looking at, for example, chemical reactions, they would go, okay, what is the most basic content that students need to know to be able to demonstrate towards chemical reactions and their understanding of that topic? And then the next level would be then, okay, Layering on what are now like the simple content that goes along with that. Above that becomes the target content and that's sort of what they teach to. in terms of where they want all of their students to land. Is it that sort of like that level three? And then the level above that would be complex content. So really getting into expanding their understanding of that particular topic. So I kind of took that, but what, like, what I really like about this is that it's. Taking almost like all of those, I guess, learning targets, or in terms of an Ontario curriculum, it would be the specific expectations and putting them into a hierarchical order. And I never really thought to do that with standards based grading. Like, it never dawned on me to do that because every other instance I've seen standards based grading, it's been creating uh, So I that builds on a skill within the classroom. And it's a scale that you can use over and over again throughout your semester on different evaluations. And I never really saw how I could apply that to the sciences, except for like lab based skills that we would go over and over again. But content, it was really hard to do that. So I kind of like this because it's, It's taking content and really sort of naming, like, where's the hierarchy? How are, how are we building up that understanding of that particular content within chemistry? Katie: 9:30 I do kind of like how they've done that with the content and and in some ways I'm like, oh that actually is logical because you know it kind of builds and the skills get

more complex as you go and so Obviously for that unit or, or whatever it is that you're, you're teaching, there is that hierarchy of content that they need before they can get to that next level. So it does show that. I do like the way they've laid that out. It's very clear and it's very, I don't know, it's a different way of approaching it. Rachel: 9:55 It is. So it's, like I said, it's, it's taking my, what I was doing with specs grading, because what I was doing with specs grading was, okay, here are my learning outcomes. Like here are the main topics within the course that we're covering. And now, instead of, you know, you've just. Either demonstrated mastery on it or not, I'm now blowing up, well what does mastery of that content look like, and what level, in terms of the IP curriculum, does that equate to? Katie: 10:22 and it's nice because even the way it's laid out, it's still really clear as to the content you're covering and the expectations you're covering. And everything is included there. And... I do kind of like how clean that is. So it's not like, I mean, it's still kind of traditional, but not at the same time, if that makes sense. Rachel: 10:38 Yeah, and um, so, like, kind of talking about the mastery scale that I've developed a little bit more and how I would develop evaluations around it is there's still no points grades on anything and I think that's that's really important. It's about demonstrating mastery of the skills at each of the different levels. So my level two. is demonstrating mastery of, I, like, for example, for one that I created, I have three different sort of statements or, or outcomes that I want to see for that particular level. And so they would have to be able to demonstrate mastery on all three of those skills in order to get a level two. Katie: 11:14 So here's a question because it is, are you kind of looking at like a check mark system and the more that you can do, the higher you are. So do you share ahead of time that level seven system and how it aligns? Rachel: 11:28 Oh, yeah, I have, I've, so I've only created two of these so far for my course. So just disclaimer, again, I'm, I'm only getting started with this and I'm kind of, Just muddling my way through as I'm kind of developing this, but every single mastery scale is right there in bright space for the students to see as they get started with the module I'm calling the modules that we're learning. Katie: 11:51 Yeah. And. In some ways I love that they're seeing it because they know they can't just skip to the very last kind of highest standard, they have to be able to actually demonstrate all the skills leading up to it. So, yeah, So, that is neat. Okay. Part of me at first was like, does that make sense? Because if they know level 7, aren't they just going to gear toward that and still be grades kind of minded? But, because you're saying you can't get this until you've done the rest. Rachel: 12:18 So

I have my, like my level 3, which is really an IBA level 4 5, and then my level 4, which is an IBA level 6 7, I have them divided out into sort of two, so I have a few statements with those, but my expectation there when I'm, I'm looking at Well, is it a level 4 or a level 5 is looking at the mastery of those skills within that level. Are they mastering just some of them or are they mastering all of them? And that's how I'm kind of using that to differentiate between a level 4 and a level 5 in terms of IB. Katie: 12:52 follow up question. You ready? Rachel: 12:54 Yes, I am. Katie: 12:55 Is it possible for there to be overlap between modules in terms of being able to demonstrate a skill or an outcome? So could there be another opportunity to demonstrate mastery in a future module? Rachel: 13:07 I think there is, with some of the ones, okay, so for example, significant digits. We do that. Anytime we do calculations, they need to be able to demonstrate that they understand significant digits and how to report answers to the correct number of significant digits. If you have no clue what I'm talking about, don't worry about it. But um, it's a concept that comes up. Over and over and over again in chemistry and in physics as well. And yeah, many other subjects, but that's one that I would repopulate again on my mastery scales in terms of Evaluations though and using this mastery scale like I am still doing multiple opportunities. I'm not getting rid of that. I think that's fantastic So I will create, you know, whatever evaluation I'm doing We're keeping this scale in mind and then Students can attempt it. I haven't decided if I want to do two or three times yet I think I might still do three if needed But I'm gonna say sort of to leave it at two and if they really need a third attempt Then I will let them do that. Katie: 14:15 And now if you have an overlapping skill module to module, will you allow for the highest demonstration of mark? Or will it all be included? Rachel: 14:23 I don't know. I, I, I really don't know, actually, to be quite honest. I think we'll, we'll sort of see how it progresses over the semester and, and looking at where those skills are. Katie: 14:34 That makes sense. Rachel: 14:35 I have no idea. Katie: 14:36 Yeah, you don't have to. This is me just thinking aloud and being like, Ooh, what about this? What about that? Um, Due dates. How is that going to look and sound in your classroom? Rachel: 14:46 like any other classroom and any other year. So in terms of like IB is very test oriented. So obviously the evaluations in this course are going to be tests because that's what I need to prepare my students for. They write an exam, three papers at the end of this school year. So like in May and It's worth 80 percent of their grade. So, of course, I'm, like, that's, those are the evaluations that I'm doing. And so, last year, with specs grading, I, I had a system where we always had a consistent test day every single week, and kids love that, I love that, so I think that's going to continue. It might get shifted by a week or so depending on how long we're in a learning module uh, so there might be weeks where we kind of skip it, but It's possible that we just kind of keep that date set aside for Second and third attempts to of previous modules, so I don't know yeah, it's it's kind of figuring it out as we go. Katie: 15:45 And how are you going to be communicating with students? Yes, tests. That's great. Are you going to do any sort of conferencing to kind of help them understand next steps? Rachel: 15:53 Yeah, I was doing Conferencing last year at midterm final reporting time. That's definitely something that I want to continue Because I'm gonna end up having a level, like an IB level for every single module that we do. And the modules that I'm doing, like they're not traditional units. They are breaking down the units into two or three key concepts. So for example, in electrochemistry, like I'm breaking it down into two modules, one about redox reactions and one about like the electrochemical cells and stuff like that. So they're kind of two different sort of key concepts that we end up learning within that particular course. So I think that's, that I, I'm going to end up with quite a few different levels. And so I think what I'll do in terms of conferencing for midterm and final reporting grades is like, okay, let's sit down and let's look at how you did level wise on all of these different modules. And we'll have the conversation then around, okay, well, what. level are we performing at and and where do we think we're at at this moment in time? Katie: 16:58 And so feedback how specific will feedback be as you're going through? Rachel: 17:02 Yeah in terms of their Like their tests and stuff like that. It'll be the same kind of feedback that I've been giving, last year So the way I've I've sort of taken This mastery scale and then created an assessment that goes with it is I've taken every single one of those statements and I've Laid it out So like all the level two stuff is first then the level three then the four five and then the six seven so building up The skills through it. So it is kind of all divvied out in terms of where they need to demonstrate certain pieces of knowledge So that is a little bit different in terms of how I'm laying it out It doesn't really affect the content of a test, like, it's still the same content I would have given, I'm just laying it out a bit differently, and then for each one of those, like, targets or learning outcomes or whatever, I'll either say they've mastered it or they need to revise, and My students know that if I say no, they need to revise, like that they need to first go and try and do corrections on their own first. And then they come and talk to me and we have a conversation and go over and reteach or whatever we need to do for

whatever ones that they're not mastering. So it's, it's a lot of like one on one conversations that happen with that feedback, which I, I actually prefer. I don't actually give a lot of written feedback on tests because I want them taking that initiative and, and those steps to figure out what's not working. Katie: 18:27 No, that makes a lot of sense. Um, What does mastery mean? Is that like your level 5, 6? Is that what your kind of base standard is? Are you looking at the 7? What's mastery? Rachel: 18:35 Mastery for me, and this, this can change for any sort of, like for, for everyone, so it's very individual what you think mastery is. For mastery for me, I would say getting 80 percent or greater. on a particular section, learning outcome, whatever it is, that that is mastery for me. Like they are on their way to mastery. Uh, You know, it allows for a few little errors and stuff like that. And that's okay. Cause everyone makes, you know, silly mistakes. Katie: 19:03 So essentially they have to Sorry, I'm wrapping my head around it all because the way you have your rubrics lined out is essentially that content or those concepts and so they have to master each concept to move up the levels. Rachel: 19:14 Yeah. So they have to demonstrate mastery on, on all of those concepts. Like if they want a level seven, they have to demonstrate mastery on all of the outcomes in that mastery scale. Katie: 19:23 I like this even more now, now that I'm actually understanding. I love that because then it's, you're making sure mastery of every one of those concepts because that moves forward into future success. Rachel: 19:35 And that's what specs grading did, right? Like specs grading was you, you either demonstrate mastery on it. So you're passing that outcome or you're not. Katie: 19:43 Yeah. Rachel: 19:44 So this is just taking that specs grading and blowing it up and, and laying it out, I guess, in a little bit more of a hierarchical kind of order. Katie: 19:52 And it's really breaking down the concepts that they need to know, which is nice. And I think it makes it... easier for them to see and understand what they're learning. Rachel: 20:01 now it is kind of taking a step away from ungrading, I guess, in a way, because it is now equating it to a level, but it's still not equating it to a percentage grade. And it's still, you know, like, it's still There's no points grades. So, and there are multiple opportunities. So I think those things are still going to help take away some of the stress around grades and the grade grubbing and, and all of those sort of pieces because the onus is on them, right, to demonstrate that mastery of the learning. Katie: 20:34 Would it be worth considering not showing how those standards, the standards based system translate to IB levels? Rachel: 20:42 I thought about that, but I think You know, the grade 12s, they, they do stress about what level

they're at. And with specs grading, I still had an equation, like I had a grade conversion chart where I said, if you pass this many outcomes, this is a level seven. If you pass this many outcomes, it's a level six. So I did still have that, sort of a table where, where students could see where they're lying. Like, I think they still need that information, right? Katie: 21:10 Part of me wonders if it's worth for like the first module not showing them and then as, I know, I know, and then kind of gearing towards it as those stress levels are raising, But I get that. I also kind of like the transparency as well. It's kind of this, you'll have to let me know how that goes, because part of me is torn in that it does end up translating to a grade and there is there are many charts that can tell them what that level would look like in terms of a percentage. Rachel: 21:36 Yeah, they did have, like I said, they did have that information last year though, too. It was just equating those levels and those grades to in a different way. So I don't think it's far off of what I was doing. I think it's more kind of laying out, okay, what are the things that you need to demonstrate mastery on in, within this particular module in order for you to get those levels? Katie: 21:59 Is there anything you're not certain about or questioning? Rachel: 22:02 Well, I am questioning how my students are going to take this. Katie: 22:08 The human factor is always something we can't control. Rachel: 22:13 You know, I always start out the school year, and we're recording this a bit earlier than when the episode's coming out, so we're only just kind of getting into our school year right now. But, you know, I always start out the school year not talking about grades. And it's kind of nice like this group of students, they're trained not to even ask me about grades now, which is fantastic, right? They, uh, the only kind of questions I got were, are we still doing things the same way we did last year? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, like still mastery based learning. And you know, the grading's maybe slightly different, but you know, we'll talk about grades when we get to it. Katie: 22:50 Nice. Rachel: 22:50 And that was it. That was the end of the conversation. Katie: 22:53 a fabulous conversation. Rachel: 22:54 It is. It's, it's just, it's refreshing. I think, and, and like I said, you know, I've had these kids before, so it's really kind of cool that they, they just know there's no point in having that conversation right now. Katie: 23:06 Yeah, you have set the stage, and so they know we're not getting anywhere with it. So moving on, Rachel: 23:11 Yeah. Katie: 23:12 which I guess is that nice thing about consistency between grade 11 and 12. Rachel: 23:16 I'm really excited to see where this goes this year and see how they do on their exams. You know what, honestly let me just say this about

mastery based learning. I have students that I had semester one last year and I can already see that they have retained more content and more knowledge from their year one course at this time of year than any other past years that I've taught this course. Katie: 23:41 And I think a lot of that comes down to, mastery means you can't just study quickly before a test and lose all that information. Rachel: 23:49 Like we, we started with chemical nomenclature, like naming formulas, things like that. And that's sort of what we were working on last week. Just reviewing all of that stuff from grade 11, because that is the language of chemistry and it's absolutely essential for the rest of the course. And I think out of Both classes I have, I have maybe two students who are struggling with it. And normally at this point in the year, I would have, like, I wouldn't know if I was doing this traditionally and the way I've taught it before in the past, I wouldn't know until I gave the evaluation that kids were struggling with nomenclature. And then it might be... Like, more like ten kids, not two. Katie: 24:30 That is a pretty darn good way to start a semester. Rachel: 24:33 yeah. A few of them are even like, I can't believe I still remember this stuff. I'm like, yeah, mastery based learning, eh? Katie: 24:41 Yeah. Rachel: 24:41 They're like, it's amazing. Katie: 24:43 I think we'll have to do an update episode in the future to hear how it's going. Rachel: 24:47 Yes, for sure. Katie: 24:48 But any advice you have, anywhere people can get started if they're thinking about standards based grading. Rachel: 24:55 Yeah, I'm, well, I'm happy to share the, the one resource from the talk I went to, I believe that is posted on the CAM Ed conference website. So I'll find the link for that and put that in the show notes. And then I'm also happy to link out some of the scales that I've created so far. So if you wanted to take a look at it, you can and people can always reach out in terms of as well. Like if, if you have questions, let us know, Katie: 25:21 Well, thank you so much for sharing your journey this year, and we look forward to hearing more. Rachel: 25:27 Yeah. So I guess on that note, we'll wrap up our conversation here today. And so we'll include any of those links or resources we talked about here today in our show notes. You can access our show notes for this episode at edugals. com slash 133. That's edugals. com slash 133. Katie: 25:47 And if you like what you heard today, then feel free to share it with a colleague or a friend. And don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app so that you don't miss out on any future content. Rachel: 25:57 And as always, we'd love to hear from you. So if you have questions, if you have ideas, or thoughts, or anything on standards based grading, or what I'm trying to do in my classroom this year, I'd love to hear them. So you can go on to our flip at edugals. com slash flipgrid and leave us a video message there. Or you can go onto our website at edugals. com and leave us a written response. Katie: 26:22 Thanks for listening and see you next week!