النص الكامل لحلقة Dolly Parton, Clancy Trial Takes, Young Men Entangled in the Addicition Economy

by this. I didn't know she was still alive. 41 00:02:11.699 --> 00:02:13.280 Oh, man. 42 00:02:13.699 --> 00:02:15.150 What's the last time you heard from Dolly Parton? 43 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:18.740 I'll tell you the last time, and this is my 44 00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:21.819 only Dolly Parton take, is you guys are way older 45 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:22.710 than me, so you may not. 46 00:02:22.650 --> 00:02:23.569 Know this, but. 47 00:02:25.069 --> 00:02:30.830 She started a nonprofit organization that sends books for free 48 00:02:30.849 --> 00:02:32.030 through the mail to kids. 49 00:02:32.509 --> 00:02:33.949 Yeah, I knew about that. 50 00:02:34.009 --> 00:02:35.069 Really great books, and I. 51 00:02:35.030 --> 00:02:37.219 Don't know how many millions of these things she's sent 52 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:41.939 over the years, but– Clearly, she identified that literacy in 53 00:02:41.979 --> 00:02:46.090 early childhood was really important, and she donated a ton 54 00:02:46.110 --> 00:02:49.430 of her wealth to just freely distributing these great books 55 00:02:49.449 --> 00:02:49.830 to kids. 56 00:02:49.889 --> 00:02:51.530 I knew about that, which is really neat. 57 00:02:52.090 --> 00:02:54.569 Well, here's the only problem. It was a little bit 58 00:02:54.629 --> 00:02:57.310 too little too late because Eric Reid didn't get the book. 59 00:02:57.330 --> 00:02:59.750 I didn't get one book. I didn't get one book 60 00:02:59.789 --> 00:03:00.639 in the mail, and it shows. 61 00:03:00.780 --> 00:03:01.000 It shows. 62 00:03:02.870 --> 00:03:05.569 Those books were like, you know, for phonics and pronunciation. 63 00:03:05.659 --> 00:03:08.099 All the books behind me are the Dolly Parton books, guys. 64 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:09.199 It's the only one I ever got. 65 00:03:09.340 --> 00:03:11.539 Dolly failed Eric Reid. 66 00:03:11.699 --> 00:03:14.659 Hey, you said she was praised by the president and 67 00:03:14.699 --> 00:03:20.000 by Democrats. Isn't that why y'all are anti-Tim Keller? The 68 00:03:20.020 --> 00:03:20.520 same reason? 69 00:03:21.699 --> 00:03:22.840 I'm not anti-Tim Keller. 70 00:03:22.860 --> 00:03:23.280 Too soon. 71 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:24.509 Come on. Yeah, y'all are. 72 00:03:24.530 --> 00:03:28.669 Okay, here's my Dolly Parton take, okay? I'm a native Tennessean, 73 00:03:28.909 --> 00:03:31.189 lived there my whole life other than my time in 74 00:03:31.210 --> 00:03:35.110 the military and You have to understand Dolly is royalty 75 00:03:35.610 --> 00:03:40.169 in Tennessee, particularly East Tennessee. She grew up in a 76 00:03:40.409 --> 00:03:43.490 very poor family. I mean, she grew up in the 77 00:03:43.590 --> 00:03:48.129 Appalachian mountains. She was one of like 12 or 13 children, very, 78 00:03:48.189 --> 00:03:52.289 very poor. And you know, her father wasn't educated. Nobody 79 00:03:52.310 --> 00:03:55.699 in her family was educated, but she, she was sharp. 80 00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:58.939 She

was very skilled. She learned at an early age 81 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:01.879 that her singing was Um, and her, and her beauty 82 00:04:02.060 --> 00:04:04.610 had got her attention. She could leverage it. She's done 83 00:04:04.629 --> 00:04:07.669 interviews talking about how she knew she had to learn business. 84 00:04:07.909 --> 00:04:09.550 She knew she was good at music, but if she 85 00:04:09.590 --> 00:04:11.909 wanted to actually get out of her situation, she needed 86 00:04:11.930 --> 00:04:14.780 to learn business and she did. But the thing is, 87 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:18.819 is she never, she never kind of, uh, became an 88 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:22.800 elitist that looked down or despised her upbringing. Um, she 89 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:26.959 always honored the people from which she came. And I'll 90 00:04:26.980 --> 00:04:30.079 tell you this, I think there's something very commendable about Dolly. 91 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:33.379 You know, you could argue for most of her life, 92 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:35.730 she was viewed as a sex symbol. You know, people 93 00:04:36.269 --> 00:04:40.050 saw her as like this attractive. There was always Dolly 94 00:04:40.089 --> 00:04:43.350 Parton jokes and stuff because of her looks. But listen, 95 00:04:43.430 --> 00:04:47.240 she was never unfaithful to her husband. Her husband stayed 96 00:04:47.269 --> 00:04:50.100 out of the limelight for all of her career. And 97 00:04:50.139 --> 00:04:53.620 he just died last year. She was faithfully married to 98 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.160 him from the time she was in her 20s until 99 00:04:56.180 --> 00:05:00.720 he died last year. No infidelity, no stories of scandal, 100 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:05.360 and she was faithful. She was an identified Christian. I 101 00:05:05.939 --> 00:05:09.189 don't think she was discipled very well. I think she 102 00:05:09.230 --> 00:05:11.550 had some views that we would say were very immature 103 00:05:11.730 --> 00:05:14.310 about thinking about the sexuality issues and the woke era 104 00:05:14.370 --> 00:05:17.850 and stuff like that, but Dolly was never woke. But 105 00:05:17.889 --> 00:05:21.329 Dolly was a philanthropist, and she was a. 106 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:24.660 She cared about. 107 00:05:24.500 --> 00:05:29.279 Helping kids I'm sorry man I couldn't spit it out 108 00:05:29.339 --> 00:05:33.660 guys he was doing so well he didn't get the 109 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:36.439 books he didn't get the. 110 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:41.449 Books I'm so sorry as it was coming out of. 111 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:44.610 My mouth I was watching your anticipation for what I 112 00:05:44.629 --> 00:05:45.569 was going to say. 113 00:05:47.850 --> 00:05:51.509 Sorry please consider this heartfelt reflection again. 114 00:05:53.250 --> 00:05:57.230 No, it's okay. All that to say, Dolly is a queen. 115 00:05:57.689 --> 00:06:01.500 We love her. Tennesseans and the world alike are very pro-Dolly. 116 00:06:01.959 -->

00:06:04.019 And it's a sad day. But it's a reminder. Gosh, 117 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:06.939 she's 80 years old. My dad's 80 years old and 118 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:09.899 still alive. And what fascinated me yesterday about hearing that 119 00:06:09.939 --> 00:06:12.250 news was like, man, my dad doesn't have any money. 120 00:06:12.750 --> 00:06:15.050 And Dolly had all the money in the world. And 121 00:06:15.290 --> 00:06:17.990 she still couldn't live a day longer than the Lord's 122 00:06:18.209 --> 00:06:21.149 sovereign plan in her life. And so there's just so 123 00:06:21.189 --> 00:06:25.100 many things about this that, I think are just interesting. 124 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:29.490 But Dollywood, place to go if you've never been. For 125 00:06:29.509 --> 00:06:32.009 those of us who are theme park enjoyers, Dollywood is 126 00:06:32.129 --> 00:06:33.069 a blast. 127 00:06:33.689 --> 00:06:37.449 Long live Dolly. If you go to Panama City instead 128 00:06:37.470 --> 00:06:40.129 of 30A for spring break, then Dollywood is for you. 129 00:06:40.430 --> 00:06:44.269 That's right. I was trying to think as you were talking, 130 00:06:44.389 --> 00:06:48.209 who would that be in other states? You're talking about 131 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.899 the level of Dolly in Tennessee. I don't know if 132 00:06:52.019 --> 00:06:54.319 anybody has one– I mean, there's more than just one 133 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:57.459 person in Tennessee that's beloved historically, but she is such 134 00:06:57.500 --> 00:07:00.480 an icon in Tennessee. I'm like, who would that be 135 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:03.240 in Florida? Like Jimmy Buffett? But outside the Keys. I 136 00:07:04.180 --> 00:07:07.459 didn't even know. I was thinking about Jimmy Buffett. I'm 137 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:09.540 just trying to think of who that– when they died, 138 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:11.079 I don't even know who that would be in Florida. 139 00:07:11.259 --> 00:07:13.500 Hey, in Kentucky, we've got Colonel Sanders. 140 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:15.480 I mean, he died 30 years ago. 141 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:21.699 But hey, a little known trivia, all right? Colonel Sanders' 142 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:26.100 funeral was held in Alumni Memorial Chapel on the campus 143 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:26.899 of Southern Seminary. 144 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:29.779 Nice. How about that? Was that before or after MLK 145 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:30.269 preached at it? 146 00:07:32.019 --> 00:07:34.689 Oh, yeah. I mean, wait. Oh, yeah, way after. That 147 00:07:34.819 --> 00:07:35.750 was in the 80s. 148 00:07:35.819 --> 00:07:42.829 Did he throw in strays today? Well, anyway, Dolly. 149 00:07:42.949 --> 00:07:44.910 I thought I really wanted to answer that question. 150 00:07:45.129 --> 00:07:47.850 And he's buried like less than two miles from the campus. 151 00:07:47.870 --> 00:07:48.170 Oh, yeah. 152 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:51.680 What does it say that the first person I think 153 00:07:51.740 --> 00:07:53.769 of when I think of Florida is that lady who 154 00:07:53.850 --> 00:07:55.889 drove through the night with a diaper on so she 155 00:07:55.930 --> 00:07:58.910 could confront her cheating husband? 156 00:07:59.069 --> 00:08:01.129 I don't even know that. 157 00:08:01.269 --> 00:08:04.470 Hey, listen. Florida does have an icon. It's Florida Man. 158 00:08:04.850 --> 00:08:06.180 That is Florida Man. 159 00:08:06.269 --> 00:08:09.060 Exactly. I was going to think Walt Disney because I'm 160 00:08:09.139 --> 00:08:09.939 from Florida. Oh, yeah. 161 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:10.560 There you go. 162 00:08:10.579 --> 00:08:16.000 He's from Missouri. Yeah, he is. Somebody posted. I was 163 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:21.240 reading all these thoughts about Dolly. Someone wrote, there was nothing, sorry, 164 00:08:21.620 --> 00:08:24.939 there was nothing phony about her. I was like, I 165 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:30.730 might want to use a different word. Miles Smith, y'all 166 00:08:30.750 --> 00:08:31.500 know Miles Smith. 167 00:08:32.370 --> 00:08:35.009 He made a statement on X that I thought captured 168 00:08:35.029 --> 00:08:39.690 the reality of it. He said, without exaggeration, Dolly is 169 00:08:39.830 --> 00:08:43.830 to the Appalachia what Queen Elizabeth was to the British Empire. 170 00:08:44.190 --> 00:08:48.110 Like you have to understand it's that level of identification 171 00:08:48.289 --> 00:08:48.879 and loss. 172 00:08:49.220 --> 00:08:50.960 See, I'm so far removed from that, man. I would never, 173 00:08:51.059 --> 00:08:52.279 I would never million years know that. 174 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:53.059 Yeah. 175 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:54.840 I knew, I knew she was big in Tennessee, but wow. 176 00:08:55.100 --> 00:08:57.039 I mean that, the queen. Yeah. 177 00:08:57.220 --> 00:09:00.159 The queen. She's the queen of the East, man. Queen 178 00:09:00.179 --> 00:09:02.419 of the East. Well, speaking of someone who is not 179 00:09:02.460 --> 00:09:05.450 a queen, but is very much in the news, um, this, 180 00:09:05.730 --> 00:09:10.769 this Clancy trial and something, she is a queen. This 181 00:09:10.929 --> 00:09:16.500 story is incredible. mind-boggling. I'm sure listeners have heard this. 182 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:19.019 I was way late on it. Apparently people have been 183 00:09:19.059 --> 00:09:26.539 living on the TikTok investigative reporting and court. Everybody's got 184 00:09:26.590 --> 00:09:28.590 a take on TikTok. I didn't even know about the 185 00:09:28.629 --> 00:09:31.470 case until it kind of spilled out even more publicly. 186 00:09:31.970 --> 00:09:34.769 But apparently this lady who struggled with mental health issues 187 00:09:35.570 --> 00:09:39.149 killed all three of her children and attempted to kill herself, 188 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:42.620 did not succeed. She's paralyzed now from the waist down. 189 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:46.870 There's all kinds of debate about her husband's knowledge or 190

00:09:46.929 --> 00:09:49.769 non-knowledge about it. There's a lot of conspiracy theories developing. 191 00:09:50.429 --> 00:09:54.769 I want to get into some things to observe about 192 00:09:54.809 --> 00:09:57.370 this because I don't want to litigate the trial. I'm 193 00:09:57.409 --> 00:10:01.600 more interested in what the trial's revealed. about our culture. 194 00:10:01.899 --> 00:10:07.480 And one of those things is the almost like fanatic 195 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:13.350 support from tons of ladies who are showing up like 196 00:10:13.389 --> 00:10:16.669 it's a tailgate party to the courtroom. And they're lining 197 00:10:16.750 --> 00:10:19.029 the road in which she's coming in in a prisoner van. 198 00:10:19.570 --> 00:10:22.970 And they're cheering for her with signs. And it's kind 199 00:10:23.009 --> 00:10:27.080 of like the whole idea that in Disney movies, the 200 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:30.340 villains are becoming the heroes kind of thing that's going on. 201 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:34.399 She is being celebrated as a celebrity. She is being 202 00:10:34.940 --> 00:10:37.620 lifted up. Some are saying she's innocent. Some are saying 203 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:42.299 even if she's guilty, her mental health problems are to blame. 204 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:44.700 I want to hit a couple of different angles on 205 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:47.519 this thing, but let's just begin with some of your 206 00:10:47.580 --> 00:10:53.009 reactions as you've been watching this outpouring of female support 207 00:10:53.250 --> 00:10:53.830 behind her. 208 00:10:54.690 --> 00:10:56.830 Eric, what's the, or I don't know any of you, 209 00:10:57.730 --> 00:11:01.549 if you were going to steel man, the, the argument 210 00:11:01.669 --> 00:11:06.259 of why, like what's the best argument for why we've 211 00:11:06.340 --> 00:11:08.639 seen what you just described? 212 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:14.299 I think the steel man argument is that women are, 213 00:11:15.379 --> 00:11:21.500 Some women legitimately do struggle with postpartum depression. There's the 214 00:11:21.539 --> 00:11:25.350 mental health component. We live in a very therapeutic culture. 215 00:11:25.379 --> 00:11:32.289 We live in a very feminist culture. So I think 216 00:11:32.309 --> 00:11:36.590 there's this sense of cultural solidarity that you can't judge 217 00:11:36.629 --> 00:11:40.409 a woman whose footsteps you've never walked in, especially a 218 00:11:40.429 --> 00:11:43.950 woman who's been challenged with great mental health issues. It's 219 00:11:43.970 --> 00:11:46.080 kind of one of those things where You know, if 220 00:11:46.139 --> 00:11:47.799 you haven't walked the day in my shoes, how can 221 00:11:47.820 --> 00:11:52.379 you judge my situation? She's confessed that she killed her children. 222 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:57.259 She's falling back on mental health. And a lot of 223 00:11:57.299 --> 00:12:01.679 women are, I want to hope no women are like 224 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:06.320 defending the murders of the children. They're defending the vulnerability 225 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:09.870 of women who are undergoing postpartum depression. 226 00:12:10.450 --> 00:12:13.929 Yeah, but they're out there in pink with signs. Yeah. 227 00:12:13.990 --> 00:12:18.769 And like, you know, if the, if the protest was just, again, 228 00:12:18.830 --> 00:12:22.200 I don't agree with this, obviously the protest was just like, 229 00:12:22.779 --> 00:12:27.539 take postpartum depression seriously or take that seriously. But, but like, 230 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:29.980 but she needs to be dealt with according to the law. 231 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:32.490 And this is tragic and all these kinds of things when, 232 00:12:32.529 --> 00:12:35.129 when she's being propped up. So, so I, right. 233 00:12:35.750 --> 00:12:37.889 So I, um, She's become a martyr. 234 00:12:38.190 --> 00:12:44.330 Yeah. It's the Luigi story. That's kind of that. Yes. 235 00:12:44.370 --> 00:12:45.830 Yeah, that's a great analog. 236 00:12:46.330 --> 00:12:50.460 And the thing is that I read yesterday that previously, 237 00:12:50.620 --> 00:12:54.379 before the murders, she was not diagnosed with anything, right? 238 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:56.980 She was not diagnosed with postpartum depression. She was not 239 00:12:57.019 --> 00:12:59.419 diagnosed with any kind of other serious mental health that 240 00:12:59.500 --> 00:13:03.299 could maybe lead to something crazy like that. I might 241 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:05.700 be wrong on that, but that's what I read. I mean, so... 242 00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:07.759 So that's, it was like an after, it's like she 243 00:13:07.779 --> 00:13:10.080 was all of a sudden declared that after all of that. 244 00:13:10.820 --> 00:13:12.299 So I've got a, you know, Dean and I as 245 00:13:12.340 --> 00:13:16.580 pastors obviously have pastoral opinions on this question of mental 246 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:20.590 illness versus moral culpability. But from an ethics standpoint, Andrew, 247 00:13:21.230 --> 00:13:25.029 how do you start parsing out like, okay, she's having 248 00:13:25.350 --> 00:13:30.309 very real, let's just say chemical reactions in her brain, 249 00:13:30.690 --> 00:13:35.870 this postpartum stuff. She's spiraling into emotional distress and depression. 250 00:13:36.350 --> 00:13:39.620 Let's steal men, even the best case scenario. Is there 251 00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:43.759 ever a situation where you're leaving the realm of being 252 00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:48.600 morally responsible for your actions at this point? Because pastorally, 253 00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:52.889 I would say no, even though I understand there are 254 00:13:52.950 --> 00:13:57.090 some threads there that have to be nuanced to a degree, right? 255 00:13:57.129 --> 00:13:57.909 What would you say? 256 00:13:59.789 --> 00:14:02.919 So obviously- The question you're asking has a lot of 257 00:14:03.379 --> 00:14:07.139

legal technicalities and contours that I'm not equipped to answer 258 00:14:07.460 --> 00:14:11.299 with any level of expertise. But at least one thing 259 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:14.210 you can say is that the law does establish first-degree murder, 260 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:22.009 second-degree murder, manslaughter. I don't think that you can get 261 00:14:22.230 --> 00:14:26.750 a blanket immunity fallback on, well, I'm just mentally ill. 262 00:14:27.429 --> 00:14:30.710 I don't think that's sufficient. I think it's a relevant category. 263 00:14:32.059 --> 00:14:35.259 But I don't think it's a sufficient category to receive 264 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:40.720 any type of innocence in this particular situation is how 265 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:42.230 I would at least initially assess it. 266 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:45.559 Well, think about this. What the prosecution is arguing is 267 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:50.000 that she planned this. She planned it. She sent her 268 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.820 husband away to the store and then she executed it 269 00:14:52.940 --> 00:14:56.240 with the goal of jumping off and killing herself at 270 00:14:56.259 --> 00:14:57.120 the same time. 271 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:59.470 And that's where this is really complicated. We don't know 272 00:14:59.490 --> 00:15:02.240 all the facts, right? You can only... make assessments based 273 00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:04.919 on the facts that are known, but you have to 274 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:09.539 hold out dual realities. A, she could have been mentally ill. 275 00:15:09.940 --> 00:15:10.139 Sure. 276 00:15:10.179 --> 00:15:11.019 Okay. Very real. 277 00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:16.379 The other dual reality is that if there was premeditation, 278 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:20.669 it's still premeditation, even if you're mentally ill. If you 279 00:15:20.769 --> 00:15:25.570 have a sense of consciousness of what you're doing, even 280 00:15:25.629 --> 00:15:28.870 if you're conscious that you are mentally ill, that's still 281 00:15:28.909 --> 00:15:33.100 to me, is enough to satisfy a first-degree murder charge. 282 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:33.840 Yeah. 283 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.840 Have you seen the people on social media that are 284 00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:41.059 breaking up with their girlfriends because of... Yes, I've seen it. 285 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:44.980 It's like a filter question now. Yeah, them being pro. 286 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:48.220 Somebody had a girlfriend that did a TikTok video in 287 00:15:48.259 --> 00:15:51.019 support of her, and the guy's like, I don't want him. 288 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.639 I'm nervous to marry someone or have children with someone 289 00:15:53.659 --> 00:15:54.559 who would side with her. 290 00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:58.970 That's a rational take. And the weird thing is that like, 291 00:15:59.009 --> 00:16:01.509 you know, Tietzel in our group chat is, you know, 292 00:16:02.450 --> 00:16:04.799 deliberating on cutting us off as friends because of our 293 00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:09.419 opinions on that. So I wish we could have more 294 00:16:09.460 --> 00:16:10.620 mercy in this conversation. 295 00:16:11.940 --> 00:16:14.899 You know, here's the other thing too, that's just a 296 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:20.750 distortion of Christian theology. It's being reported as well that 297 00:16:20.809 --> 00:16:25.570 before she murdered each one of her children, her statement 298 00:16:25.610 --> 00:16:29.500 to them was, go to God, baby. As she strangled them, 299 00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:34.340 go to God. And her intent was to then jump 300 00:16:34.460 --> 00:16:37.590 off and end her own life and join them. And 301 00:16:37.610 --> 00:16:42.669 so this is a distortion of even theology at this point, 302 00:16:42.870 --> 00:16:45.750 like taking the idea of like, you can play God, 303 00:16:46.129 --> 00:16:48.730 send your kids to heaven. Um, and then, you know, 304 00:16:48.750 --> 00:16:52.700 kill yourself and go to heaven is completely upside down thinking. 305 00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:55.799 And yet it's exactly what was being deployed here. Um, 306 00:16:56.929 --> 00:16:59.090 And this is the kind of stuff we see that 307 00:16:59.169 --> 00:17:03.269 people try to leverage theology to justify certain things. And 308 00:17:03.289 --> 00:17:06.799 we just have to stop and say, no, guys, this 309 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.900 is not how you use theology or God's word in 310 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:11.640 these scenarios. 311 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:15.349 You know how like Lifeway and Ligonier will like release 312 00:17:15.380 --> 00:17:18.190 these polls on like the state of theology in America 313 00:17:18.789 --> 00:17:24.890 and how like actually abysmal, like basic theological literacy is 314 00:17:25.009 --> 00:17:27.880 in America. this is one of those moments where kind 315 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:30.740 of pop theology rears its ugly head. 316 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:30.829 Yep. 317 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:31.539 Yep. 318 00:17:31.900 --> 00:17:36.480 And, you know, or the pop theology that's kind of like, oh, well, 319 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:39.309 you know, I can't wait to see grandpa in his 320 00:17:39.349 --> 00:17:41.730 rocking chair when I get to heaven. Those types of 321 00:17:41.769 --> 00:17:45.289 things that are basically just kind of crutches and fallbacks 322 00:17:45.589 --> 00:17:48.230 that aren't grounded in scripture at all. 323 00:17:48.470 --> 00:17:51.789 And just to be clear, we're talking about Lindsay Clancy 324 00:17:51.869 --> 00:17:52.549 going to heaven. 325 00:17:52.849 --> 00:17:56.690 We're not talking about the the fate of the children. Correct. But, 326 00:17:56.750 --> 00:18:00.490 but just her theology about that, that as if she 327 00:18:00.630 --> 00:18:04.700 had the, you know, the ability or even the license 328 00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:07.640 to play God, go to heaven, baby, you know, that 329 00:18:07.819 --> 00:18:09.279

that's terrifying. 330 00:18:09.980 --> 00:18:10.720 But, okay. 331 00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:13.980 So let's, let's say for, just for argument's sake that 332 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:15.309 this is mental illness. 333 00:18:16.109 --> 00:18:16.349 Okay. 334 00:18:18.009 --> 00:18:22.710 Why would it be shocking that the enemy demons, Satan, 335 00:18:23.380 --> 00:18:31.619 wouldn't work through decrepit physiology, decrepit neurochemical imbalances. 336 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:34.190 And distortions of scripture. And distortions of scripture. 337 00:18:35.109 --> 00:18:39.309 I have no problem believing that Satan can work through 338 00:18:40.430 --> 00:18:43.539 chemical imbalances that result in atrocities like this. 339 00:18:43.910 --> 00:18:44.559 Yep. 340 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:48.579 Of course he would, because if we're embodied creatures, what 341 00:18:48.660 --> 00:18:50.779 is the enemy going to do? The enemy is going 342 00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:56.609 to try to permeate every element of creation order with 343 00:18:56.650 --> 00:18:59.630 that nature of evil. I mean, that's Romans 8. All 344 00:18:59.730 --> 00:19:03.029 of creation is groaning. All of creation doesn't have an 345 00:19:03.210 --> 00:19:07.130 asterisk that says, with the exception of your mind and 346 00:19:07.170 --> 00:19:07.950 neural pathways. 347 00:19:08.390 --> 00:19:08.589 Yeah. 348 00:19:10.049 --> 00:19:15.339 Yeah, and to that point, you know, Andrew, it's woe 349 00:19:15.380 --> 00:19:19.119 to those who call evil good and good evil. 350 00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:19.960 Yeah. 351 00:19:20.890 --> 00:19:23.549 And that's what I think, I think that's what the 352 00:19:23.609 --> 00:19:28.869 big cultural reckoning is in our society, is this is 353 00:19:29.009 --> 00:19:36.200 inconceivably evil, right? The deliberation, apparently she was like making 354 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:40.410 her children stand by and wait as she strangled each 355 00:19:40.410 --> 00:19:45.380 one individually, and so they knew what was coming. And 356 00:19:45.380 --> 00:19:52.359 it's it's unfathomable that, that evil could manifest in this degree. 357 00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:53.690 And yet here we are. 358 00:19:54.059 --> 00:19:57.420 Do you think it, um, in a weird way, isn't. 359 00:19:58.700 --> 00:20:04.240 Unfathomable given the moral atrocity of abortion that we've, that's 360 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:08.000 exactly what I was sort of like embraced. And we, we, 361 00:20:08.140 --> 00:20:12.869 we have made the argument, repeatedly, there's no difference between 362 00:20:12.930 --> 00:20:16.549 the inherent worth of a pre-born child and a post-born child. 363 00:20:16.569 --> 00:20:17.630 That's exactly what I was going to ask. 364 00:20:17.670 --> 00:20:20.730 And relied on the idea that if you can kill 365 00:20:20.789 --> 00:20:23.750 a pre-born child, why can't you kill a... And the 366 00:20:23.829 --> 00:20:26.769 moral intuition that, well, one of those is obviously wrong. 367 00:20:27.349 --> 00:20:29.130 If there are a bunch of women in pink hats 368 00:20:29.250 --> 00:20:32.089 celebrating a mother who just murdered her kid, is it 369 00:20:32.150 --> 00:20:33.430 because they lost the plot? 370 00:20:34.109 --> 00:20:37.710 And actually there is some semblance of them that would say... 371 00:20:37.569 --> 00:20:41.250 There's a bridge. There's a bridge there. Yeah, I think 372 00:20:41.289 --> 00:20:46.190 there's bridge for the pro-choice, pro-abortion movement to finding yourself 373 00:20:46.630 --> 00:20:52.650 lining the entrance of a courtroom dressed in celebratory paraphernalia 374 00:20:52.930 --> 00:20:55.750 to support a woman who you've never met for killing 375 00:20:55.789 --> 00:20:57.970 her kids. There's a bridge there. 376 00:20:58.650 --> 00:21:01.220 There's definitely a bridge there. I think it's undeniable. 377 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:04.599 And who are these people? I can't imagine. 378 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:08.039 Who are these people? Yeah, who are they? Are they married? 379 00:21:08.059 --> 00:21:08.819 Do they have children? 380 00:21:09.700 --> 00:21:12.369 I can't imagine someone in their right mind thinking, you 381 00:21:12.390 --> 00:21:13.930 know what I want to do? I want to take 382 00:21:13.990 --> 00:21:19.529 my free time and go wear the pink hats and 383 00:21:20.150 --> 00:21:25.029 identify with this person as a martyr. I'm thankful that 384 00:21:25.470 --> 00:21:28.380 there's enough normalcy in my local community that I can't 385 00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:32.579 imagine anyone within like 18 degrees of separation that would 386 00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:34.440 entertain this as in any sense reasonable. 387 00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:37.299 Can I offer one more layer to this that I 388 00:21:37.339 --> 00:21:40.359 think is interesting? I also think there's a piece of 389 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:46.200 this connected to the inherent skepticism that we've got in 390 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:52.720 our culture over the simplest, most probable story of why 391 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.420 something happened. So everything's a conspiracy theory, right? That's where 392 00:21:56.440 --> 00:21:58.859 I'm getting at. Like Charlie Kirk being shot by this 393 00:21:58.940 --> 00:22:01.579 guy can't be possible. I mean, Candace Owens has now 394 00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:05.029 just created a whole career in financial pipeline off of 395 00:22:05.130 --> 00:22:09.950 questioning what seems to be the clearest, most likely explanation 396 00:22:09.970 --> 00:22:13.000 of what happened to Charlie. And that's not uncommon in 397 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:15.559 lots of things right now. Everything is a question mark. 398 00:22:16.019 --> 00:22:19.720 Everything is, there's actually a real story underneath the story. 399 00:22:20.259 --> 00:22:22.880 And I think that this is just another iteration of 400 00:22:22.940 --> 00:22:23.900 that to some degree. 401 00:22:25.789 --> 00:22:26.700 I

think you're absolutely right. 402 00:22:27.230 --> 00:22:29.650 One more question on this, and I want to get 403 00:22:29.809 --> 00:22:32.069 Teets and I want to get Andrew to think about this. 404 00:22:33.609 --> 00:22:38.339 So God gives government, Romans 13, They carry the sword. 405 00:22:39.180 --> 00:22:43.019 They are to administer justice, punish evildoers. What's the role 406 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:47.019 of the magistrate in a situation like this? And why 407 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:50.240 does what they do matter for what kind of country 408 00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:51.680 and what kind of culture we're becoming? 409 00:22:54.220 --> 00:22:57.579 Well, I haven't been following this case, but if she 410 00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:01.579 admitted that she murdered her kids, then she's going to 411 00:23:01.619 --> 00:23:04.880 spend the rest of her life locked away. And it's 412 00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:09.339 either going to be in an institution or in a prison. 413 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:15.440 And that feels just to me. 414 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:18.019 And if she's, where is she from? What state is 415 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:18.380 she from? 416 00:23:19.779 --> 00:23:20.920 I don't know. What state is she in? 417 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:24.160 Massachusetts. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. 418 00:23:24.180 --> 00:23:24.579 Massachusetts. 419 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:26.079 I don't know if they have the death penalty. If 420 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:29.109 she's convicted and it's found that she didn't have any 421 00:23:29.140 --> 00:23:39.480 sort of mental condition that would explain this unbelievable atrocity, um, then, 422 00:23:40.099 --> 00:23:44.730 you know, the ultimate punishment seems warranted, uh, in this 423 00:23:44.789 --> 00:23:45.250 guy's eyes. 424 00:23:45.730 --> 00:23:46.130 Absolutely. 425 00:23:46.150 --> 00:23:52.750 So I'm, I completely agree with Tietzel. Um, she needs 426 00:23:52.769 --> 00:23:54.890 to be locked away in an institution the rest of 427 00:23:54.910 --> 00:23:58.299 her life, or she needs to face the death penalty problem. 428 00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:01.059 And I say, this is someone who is very, very 429 00:24:01.099 --> 00:24:03.380 much in favor of the death penalty. That's a whole 430 00:24:03.420 --> 00:24:07.619 separate conversation. Um, very much in favor of it. How 431 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:10.599 we practice the death penalty in the United States of America, 432 00:24:11.619 --> 00:24:15.099 I'm not prepared to call it unjust, but I'm prepared 433 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:17.980 to call it very inefficient and very stupid and only 434 00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:21.450 something that the government could concoct. Because we put people 435 00:24:21.730 --> 00:24:24.109 on death row and we put them on death row 436 00:24:24.170 --> 00:24:28.609 for decades. And so to me, if you're going to 437 00:24:28.650 --> 00:24:32.509 do capital punishment, you do it like they did it 438 00:24:32.529 --> 00:24:36.210 to the Nazis at Nuremberg. You convict them And then 439 00:24:36.230 --> 00:24:37.890 you swiftly execute them afterwards. 440 00:24:38.150 --> 00:24:38.289 Yep. 441 00:24:39.210 --> 00:24:39.950 Um, so. 442 00:24:42.049 --> 00:24:43.970 When did we leave doing that as a society? 443 00:24:43.990 --> 00:24:45.700 I don't know. 444 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:48.480 I'm, I'm a little cynical about this because to me, 445 00:24:48.740 --> 00:24:51.960 inevitably she lives in a blue state and regardless of 446 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:54.099 what the verdict is, she's just going to be in 447 00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:56.079 some type of institution or a prison the rest of 448 00:24:56.140 --> 00:24:56.480 her life. 449 00:24:56.500 --> 00:24:57.619 Yeah, that's true. 450 00:24:58.500 --> 00:25:01.789 Um, so you, for you guys, I'm curious, uh, We 451 00:25:01.930 --> 00:25:05.069 acknowledged at the front, and I think importantly, that postpartum 452 00:25:05.089 --> 00:25:08.160 depression is a real thing. I'm sure we all know 453 00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:12.500 people who've struggled with it. So you as pastors, what 454 00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:15.839 do you do if you have someone in your life 455 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:18.680 that you're worried about in this regard? 456 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.400 Yeah, well, one thing I'm still, to go back a step, 457 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:25.950 I'm still really just shaking my head at these women 458 00:25:25.990 --> 00:25:28.980 who are out there in the streets celebrating. And it's like, 459 00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:30.960 what do you do if you have someone that's in 460 00:25:30.980 --> 00:25:34.640 your orbit that maybe they're not up there physically but 461 00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:37.809 are defending the person on social media or are celebrating 462 00:25:37.930 --> 00:25:40.529 it or are making it a women's rights issue? It's 463 00:25:40.710 --> 00:25:43.750 just like, man, that is a– again, I would not 464 00:25:43.789 --> 00:25:46.089 want that person– if I was a single man, I 465 00:25:46.130 --> 00:25:49.029 would not– even if I wasn't a believer, I wouldn't 466 00:25:49.049 --> 00:25:50.890 want to marry that woman. I'm not saying she's going 467 00:25:50.910 --> 00:25:52.900 to kill her baby, but if she's okay with it, 468 00:25:54.109 --> 00:25:57.960 that just makes me nervous. For a church member that 469 00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:00.619 is going through postpartum depression, we've been there before. Reed 470 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:02.619 and I have absolutely had that happen with church members. 471 00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:07.279 I think it's 100% support that you believe them 100%. 472 00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:13.420 I think one thing that's really important is that pastors 473 00:26:13.460 --> 00:26:20.099 have a trusted Rolodex of Christian counselors who you believe 474 00:26:20.140 --> 00:26:22.619 will take good care of the people God's entrusted you to. 475 00:26:23.349 -->

00:26:26.680 I sent two text messages today. sharing a contact of 476 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:28.259 a counselor I really trust here in town. It wasn't 477 00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:31.579 postpartum depression related, but it was children related in terms 478 00:26:31.660 --> 00:26:34.390 of children going through grief. And I think that's a 479 00:26:34.430 --> 00:26:37.250 really important thing because there's so many people out there 480 00:26:37.269 --> 00:26:40.769 that just are a licensed counselor, they call themselves. And 481 00:26:40.789 --> 00:26:42.849 that just might mean they're a glorified social worker and 482 00:26:42.890 --> 00:26:45.869 got a second, you know, one more step certification. And 483 00:26:45.910 --> 00:26:48.490 we give so much power to these people, many of 484 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:49.900 these therapists who are out there. So we have to 485 00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:53.500 be so daggum careful about who we're paying. And shout 486 00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:54.420 out to Dean on this. 487 00:26:54.440 --> 00:26:59.069 I can attest to Dean's regular rhythms and habits in 488 00:26:59.109 --> 00:27:03.329 doing this. He was dealing with a pastoral situation a 489 00:27:03.349 --> 00:27:05.750 couple months back in his church, and he sent me 490 00:27:05.789 --> 00:27:08.940 a text and said, hey, I got this situation going on. 491 00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:12.180 Can you direct me to some resources that could help 492 00:27:12.220 --> 00:27:14.140 these people? And it was an area kind of in 493 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:16.200 my wheelhouse, sent him those resources. 494 00:27:16.579 --> 00:27:18.160 We jumped on him. 495 00:27:18.349 --> 00:27:23.039 He's off to the races. And pastors... Pastors are not omnicompetent. 496 00:27:23.059 --> 00:27:26.319 They're not experts in everything. And it's really good to 497 00:27:26.380 --> 00:27:30.539 acknowledge your limitations. But as Dean said, to have that 498 00:27:30.619 --> 00:27:33.569 Rolodex of names and institutions that you trust to go 499 00:27:33.609 --> 00:27:34.369 to for resources. 500 00:27:34.990 --> 00:27:36.609 Yeah, and I think in addition to that. 501 00:27:36.730 --> 00:27:37.210 Oh, go ahead, Dean. 502 00:27:37.250 --> 00:27:37.529 Go ahead. 503 00:27:37.890 --> 00:27:40.710 Well, yeah, and then I think also to have just 504 00:27:40.970 --> 00:27:42.890 an awareness. I think one of the things that a 505 00:27:42.930 --> 00:27:46.750 children's ministry can do... Our children's ministry is who directs 506 00:27:46.809 --> 00:27:49.849 this part, but in terms of visiting and caring for 507 00:27:49.970 --> 00:27:52.819 the couple after... after the baby, you know, where they 508 00:27:52.859 --> 00:27:55.259 arrange meals and go by and bring them a gift that, 509 00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:57.740 you know, that kind of thing. I think also just 510 00:27:57.759 --> 00:27:58.420 keep your eyes open. 511 00:27:59.059 --> 00:27:59.180 Yeah. 512 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:01.859 You know, pay attention. You know, every new mother obviously 513 00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:04.680 is extra emotional and they're going there. Now they're not sleeping. 514 00:28:04.700 --> 00:28:07.319 You know, now they're responsible for another life 24 seven. 515 00:28:07.339 --> 00:28:09.119 I mean, no one is in their right frame of 516 00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:12.519 mind perfectly, but make sure that what you're seeing after 517 00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:14.099 a couple of days, a couple of weeks, I don't 518 00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:16.319 know how long it takes weeks, whatever it is. If there, 519 00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:18.500 if you see stuff out there, like you need to 520 00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:20.880 be a good friend and a good brother, sister in Christ. And, 521 00:28:21.380 --> 00:28:24.319 and intervene, speak with the person, point them the right places. 522 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:26.809 So I just think church needs to be more proactive 523 00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:31.130 in having just their eyes wide open and responding to things. 524 00:28:32.109 --> 00:28:34.029 Yeah, I think the only thing I would add to that, 525 00:28:34.049 --> 00:28:38.250 so I agree with connecting them to some maybe professionals 526 00:28:38.329 --> 00:28:43.059 that can create a long-term pathway and plan for meeting 527 00:28:43.099 --> 00:28:44.880 with them for sure. I think one of the things 528 00:28:44.900 --> 00:28:48.460 we also have to encourage is community within the body 529 00:28:48.579 --> 00:28:51.390 around them that they don't feel alone. And then the 530 00:28:51.470 --> 00:28:54.309 message that I think churches have to communicate, and this 531 00:28:54.390 --> 00:28:59.140 is broadly in many realms of issues, a couple of things. 532 00:28:59.259 --> 00:29:01.779 It's okay to be broken. It's okay to show up broken. 533 00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:05.599 It's okay to deal with brokenness, reality issues. What we 534 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:07.980 don't want to say is that it's okay to live 535 00:29:08.019 --> 00:29:11.299 in your brokenness. Christ came to make us whole. And 536 00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:14.259 so you don't have to persist in brokenness for the 537 00:29:14.299 --> 00:29:17.769 sake of wearing the badge. Jesus makes broken people whole. 538 00:29:18.259 --> 00:29:20.119 And that doesn't mean it happens overnight. It doesn't mean 539 00:29:20.140 --> 00:29:22.779 it happens in a day, but it does mean he 540 00:29:22.940 --> 00:29:24.599 is able. And so one of the things I think 541 00:29:24.619 --> 00:29:28.240 we have to do is to deploy the truth of 542 00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:31.940 God's word that he's given us into action. So for example, 543 00:29:32.430 --> 00:29:37.289 for postpartum depression or maybe anxiety or overwhelming fear and 544 00:29:37.349 --> 00:29:40.390 panic attacks, remind people of 2 Corinthians 1. 10 and 545 00:29:40.390 --> 00:29:42.839 5 to take every thought captive in obedience to Christ. 546

00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.380 Not every thought gets to run loose and have its day. 547 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.819 It doesn't get to be pregnant and have babies and 548 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:51.680 wreck your life. You need to take it captive. You 549 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:53.799 need to put it in submission to Christ. And we 550 00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:55.920 have to disciple our people on how to do that 551 00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:57.500 because that's where it shows up. It shows up in 552 00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:00.720 the real life things like this. And I think community 553 00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.279 is vital in addition to having some people around them. 554 00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:08.519 That's huge. Okay, here's what I want to hit. Tito, 555 00:30:08.539 --> 00:30:14.029 you sent us an alarming recent study that came out 556 00:30:14.730 --> 00:30:18.349 about young men. I want to read some of this 557 00:30:18.390 --> 00:30:20.529 data and then I want to, man, we got to 558 00:30:20.549 --> 00:30:22.970 weigh in on this because we focused a lot so 559 00:30:23.029 --> 00:30:27.259 far on the women in this episode. So like the 560 00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:32.230 women are being sucked into feminist, you know, ideology, and 561 00:30:32.250 --> 00:30:35.009 they're getting kind of wrapped up into this victimhood stuff. 562 00:30:36.250 --> 00:30:38.450 But what about the young men? Where are the young 563 00:30:38.509 --> 00:30:42.460 men vulnerable? Well, here's what this study says. We have 564 00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:44.980 a generation of young men trapped in what he called 565 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:48.559 the addiction economy. Here's what the numbers show. One in 566 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:54.480 eight young men use porn, gamble, and play games daily. 567 00:30:55.299 --> 00:30:59.920 Gaming daily. One in eight. Porn... Gamble and gaming daily. 568 00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:03.980 Almost one in four gamble every day. One in four 569 00:31:04.539 --> 00:31:10.369 use porn every day. The overall data essentially says this. 570 00:31:10.369 --> 00:31:15.890 45% of young men, 45%, are using porn, gamble, or 571 00:31:15.990 --> 00:31:19.720 use marijuana also every day. We've got an issue here. 572 00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:23.619 These are all vice-related issues. This is all addiction-related issues, 573 00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:25.799 and it's hammering young men. 574 00:31:26.779 --> 00:31:31.960 So the addiction economy is one level, but it's also 575 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:37.549 the attention economy. And I think these are mutually reinforcing. 576 00:31:38.390 --> 00:31:40.349 And I'll give you a sense of why. 577 00:31:40.369 --> 00:31:42.670 Expand on that attention economy. Expand on that. 578 00:31:42.769 --> 00:31:43.410 Yeah. 579 00:31:43.650 --> 00:31:48.430 So in order to addict you, they need to get 580 00:31:48.470 --> 00:31:52.170 your attention first. And so once they have your attention, 581 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.420 they can effectively manipulate algorithms to keep your attention first. 582 00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:00.700 focused on whatever activity you're doing to the point where 583 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:06.279 it becomes like, I would argue, neurochemically reconfiguring the brain. 584 00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:09.799 There's this idea called neuroplasticity, that the brain is kind 585 00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:11.960 of a living organ that can be shaped and molded 586 00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:15.380 based on the inputs that are put in on the 587 00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:19.690 brain in whatever activity you're engaging in. And here's the 588 00:32:19.710 --> 00:32:21.470 challenge in all of this, is that like, I think 589 00:32:21.490 --> 00:32:27.240 of myself as like a very discerning, well-balanced person who's 590 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:32.660 averse to these types of traps. I would put all 591 00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:36.640 four of us on this podcast in that category of self-aware, 592 00:32:37.089 --> 00:32:41.930 mature Christians, but evaluate in your own life where are 593 00:32:41.970 --> 00:32:47.289 those areas that accidentally or unintentionally you've begun to allow 594 00:32:47.349 --> 00:32:51.519 your attention to drift in ways that you really weren't 595 00:32:51.630 --> 00:32:54.529 cognizant of. The reason I bring this up is Think 596 00:32:54.569 --> 00:32:56.910 about X. All of us are on X a lot. 597 00:32:59.150 --> 00:33:01.990 I would have never called myself an addict to X. 598 00:33:02.750 --> 00:33:07.319 But what I noticed is that anytime I wasn't engaged, 599 00:33:07.819 --> 00:33:10.039 it was, well, here's an opportunity to pick up my 600 00:33:10.099 --> 00:33:11.279 phone and just scroll. 601 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:13.460 And so. 602 00:33:15.099 --> 00:33:17.180 We'll talk about the particulars of the gambling and the 603 00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:20.900 porn and the video gaming, but I think this is 604 00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:25.430 a larger cultural conversation in order to break the attention 605 00:33:25.490 --> 00:33:29.630 economy and the addiction economy. And like very practically, I bought, 606 00:33:30.170 --> 00:33:33.190 many of you might know of this app called Brick. 607 00:33:34.210 --> 00:33:34.430 Yeah. 608 00:33:34.490 --> 00:33:37.089 It's 50 bucks. It's an app that actually comes with 609 00:33:37.109 --> 00:33:40.400 like two magnetic RFID readers. And you can kind of 610 00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.920 configure the app to lock down certain apps that if 611 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:47.259 you want to get the app open, you have to 612 00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:49.579 physically stand up and go tap your phone to this 613 00:33:49.660 --> 00:33:52.440 brick on magnet thing to unlock it. 614 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:53.539 It's like a walk of shame. 615 00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:55.500 Yeah, it's like a walk of shame. 616 00:33:55.539 --> 00:33:55.960 Exactly. 617 00:33:56.819 --> 00:34:01.440 And so I've started using that

on my phone, particularly 618 00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:04.700 to block X. And I could, like Tietzel, just take 619 00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:06.619 it off my phone entirely. But there are times when 620 00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.039 I think it is valuable to have my phone. But 621 00:34:09.579 --> 00:34:14.780 it goes to show you well-intentioned, well-discerning people can get 622 00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:19.710 sucked into the attention economy that in time is slowly 623 00:34:19.829 --> 00:34:25.199 training and cultivating and habituating your actions in directions that 624 00:34:25.219 --> 00:34:26.500 you never intended to begin with. 625 00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:29.960 There's one other piece. 626 00:34:31.300 --> 00:34:36.320 That we didn't mention related to that economy, and it's 627 00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:37.219 the gaming piece. 628 00:34:37.940 --> 00:34:43.849 Man. So we were talking about pornography, gambling, and marijuana. 629 00:34:44.269 --> 00:34:44.469 Yeah. 630 00:34:45.150 --> 00:34:48.090 But then they also added gaming to this. 631 00:34:48.130 --> 00:34:50.929 Which made a lot of people really angry because everyone's like... 632 00:34:51.579 --> 00:34:55.599 Video gaming, I had one person said it's amoral. And 633 00:34:56.059 --> 00:35:00.139 I'm willing to entertain that playing video games is amoral, perhaps. 634 00:35:01.179 --> 00:35:02.139 On the surface, yes. 635 00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:03.829 To a degree. On the surface. Yeah. 636 00:35:04.730 --> 00:35:07.150 But eventually you're a total nerd and need to quit. 637 00:35:09.210 --> 00:35:11.789 Well, I'll give you an example, though, I think is important. 638 00:35:12.670 --> 00:35:17.650 I've got not only young men. Dean's got a big, 639 00:35:17.730 --> 00:35:20.480 massive university in his town. We have a little bit 640 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:23.219 of a smaller private university here, but a lot of 641 00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:25.900 young men who are in college, but even I've got 642 00:35:26.699 --> 00:35:29.059 men who are married with kids in their late twenties, 643 00:35:29.179 --> 00:35:33.579 early thirties who, who get online and game and they 644 00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:37.610 do campaigning, you know, with their other, other guys in 645 00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:38.130 their small group. 646 00:35:38.150 --> 00:35:40.989 That's what their nights look like. Their nights are video games. 647 00:35:41.289 --> 00:35:43.530 That's right. And here's the thing. They're not, you know, 648 00:35:43.730 --> 00:35:46.269 like I would go, I'd go to bat and say, 649 00:35:46.309 --> 00:35:48.590 most of them are not engaging in porn. They're not 650 00:35:48.630 --> 00:35:52.469 smoking marijuana. Um, you know, they're not, uh, what was 651 00:35:52.510 --> 00:35:57.150 the other one? They're not, um, um, porn gambling, video gambling. 652 00:35:57.170 --> 00:35:59.670 They're not gambling online, even though I think there's a 653 00:35:59.690 --> 00:36:02.690 possibility

some of them are, uh, into the game. 654 00:36:02.769 --> 00:36:06.610 One in four, according to Brad Wilcox, one in four 655 00:36:06.989 --> 00:36:10.769 men between the ages of 18 and 29 are gambling 656 00:36:11.989 --> 00:36:16.929 every single day. Yeah. The same number, roughly a little 657 00:36:16.969 --> 00:36:20.289 more are using pornography every single day, but This blew 658 00:36:20.329 --> 00:36:20.690 my mind. 659 00:36:20.889 --> 00:36:24.030 Sixty-six percent play video games every day. So that's what 660 00:36:24.050 --> 00:36:25.800 I'm saying. The gaming one feels like it's a little– 661 00:36:25.829 --> 00:36:26.389 Who are these people? 662 00:36:26.409 --> 00:36:27.170 Who are these people? 663 00:36:27.309 --> 00:36:28.889 I played video games when I was 12 years old. 664 00:36:28.949 --> 00:36:30.420 I've not played video games since I was 12 years old. 665 00:36:30.429 --> 00:36:31.909 No, we're talking about 18 to 29-year-olds. 666 00:36:31.929 --> 00:36:35.409 That's crazy. So to me– I'd say a ton of 667 00:36:35.429 --> 00:36:39.239 40-year-olds are too. Also, we've made it to like normal. 668 00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.739 Like we call it gaming. Like it's a sport or something. 669 00:36:42.510 --> 00:36:44.960 It's like, no, you're playing video games. Like you're gaming. 670 00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:45.519 That's not a thing. 671 00:36:45.869 --> 00:36:47.610 It is a sport now in colleges. 672 00:36:47.780 --> 00:36:48.860 Yeah, it is a sport. 673 00:36:48.889 --> 00:36:54.360 Yeah, I refuse to acknowledge that. But I think it's, golly, man. Also, 674 00:36:54.380 --> 00:36:56.940 you've got to give a lot of these ladies a 675 00:36:56.980 --> 00:36:58.480 little bit, cut them a little bit of slack because 676 00:36:58.500 --> 00:37:00.360 they get so much like, girls aren't giving guys a 677 00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.239 chance and they need to be more willing to go 678 00:37:03.300 --> 00:37:05.699 out with a friend. That's who you have to choose from? 679 00:37:06.260 --> 00:37:08.659 Okay, so let me give you my theory. Here's where 680 00:37:08.699 --> 00:37:11.429 the rubber meets the road. This is the gaming phenomena 681 00:37:11.489 --> 00:37:13.550 to me. This is where I think what's underneath it. 682 00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:16.760 I don't think it's simply letting off steam and wanting 683 00:37:16.780 --> 00:37:18.500 to have a little fun. I'll tell you what I 684 00:37:18.539 --> 00:37:22.599 think is at the root of it. Men are built 685 00:37:22.699 --> 00:37:28.860 and hardwired by God to build things, to lead, to 686 00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:33.840 build families, to create a career, to build wealth, provide 687 00:37:33.860 --> 00:37:40.980 for their family. Build, protect, those kinds of things. Innovate, create, cultivate. 688 00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:47.440 What is gaming ultimately? It is a counterfeit version of that. 689 00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:51.329 It is a version of that that doesn't require you

690 00:37:51.369 --> 00:37:54.110 to actually get out and do anything. So whether you're 691 00:37:54.130 --> 00:37:57.750 building worlds on these world building games or whether you're 692 00:37:57.769 --> 00:38:01.070 doing military campaigns on these military or whether you are 693 00:38:01.250 --> 00:38:05.300 in legend or varsity status where you're building a dynasty 694 00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:10.230 on your football team, all of it is about building worlds. legacies, 695 00:38:10.889 --> 00:38:15.139 you know, creating and innovating without actually ever doing it. 696 00:38:15.179 --> 00:38:17.389 It's a substitute to that. And I think that's why 697 00:38:17.409 --> 00:38:19.840 a lot of guys get sucked into it. Because it 698 00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:22.219 feels quicker than the real life thing also. 699 00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:26.079 I put this on Twitter and a lot of people 700 00:38:26.119 --> 00:38:28.820 didn't like it. I called this a civilizational crisis. 701 00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:32.139 What was the objection? 702 00:38:34.119 --> 00:38:36.199 Part of it was the gaming component. People didn't like 703 00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:43.170 indicting gaming. But Reed, you're exactly right. Men are very 704 00:38:43.230 --> 00:38:47.639 productive and they will take their productivity in either a 705 00:38:47.820 --> 00:38:50.079 healthy direction or a destructive direction. 706 00:38:50.420 --> 00:38:51.679 Yeah. 707 00:38:51.800 --> 00:39:00.320 If we have a civilization where men are economically unable 708 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:02.500 to support a family, they're not going to get married. 709 00:39:02.900 --> 00:39:04.139 Okay. 710 00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:05.920 So they're not going to get married. They're going to 711 00:39:05.940 --> 00:39:09.739 find sexual outlet elsewhere. There are not going to be children, 712 00:39:10.659 --> 00:39:14.159 which means you're going to have a demographic problem. Then 713 00:39:14.469 --> 00:39:17.269 if you add on to this the ubiquity of pornography, 714 00:39:18.010 --> 00:39:20.469 which I think is rising to the level of a 715 00:39:20.510 --> 00:39:21.530 public health crisis. 716 00:39:22.070 --> 00:39:24.809 And gambling, which is the same dopamine hit pornography is 717 00:39:24.849 --> 00:39:25.269 giving them. 718 00:39:26.250 --> 00:39:26.449 Right. 719 00:39:26.670 --> 00:39:29.550 Which, which, I mean, um, I know this is a 720 00:39:29.590 --> 00:39:35.960 family podcast. There are, um, neurological and physiological consequences to 721 00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:41.900 prolonged pornography use that is not conducive to making oneself 722 00:39:41.980 --> 00:39:43.380 a marriable person. Yeah. 723 00:39:43.420 --> 00:39:43.579 Yeah. 724 00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:49.960 And so, uh, This is all converging in a perfect 725 00:39:50.019 --> 00:39:54.440 storm to basically wipe out a generation of men who 726 00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:58.380 should be building a civilization and instead are doing the 727 00:39:58.420 --> 00:40:02.179 exact opposite. It's civilization turning in back on itself. 728 00:40:02.510 --> 00:40:04.869 Yeah, that's right. They're all shortcuts, right? 729 00:40:05.630 --> 00:40:11.349 Pornography is a shortcut to actual fulfilling sexual relationship, intimate 730 00:40:11.369 --> 00:40:13.670 relationship with a woman. Gambling is a shortcut to wealth. 731 00:40:14.650 --> 00:40:16.489 And video games are a shortcut, I think, to a 732 00:40:16.530 --> 00:40:20.550 lot of things you pointed to, Eric. Building, cultivating, going 733 00:40:20.610 --> 00:40:24.099 on an adventure, doing something difficult, achieving something. 734 00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:28.599 Well, and real quick, Caitlin Flanagan at The Atlantic, within 735 00:40:28.619 --> 00:40:31.980 the last 18 months, had an article about the rise 736 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.949 of pornography. And Tietzel, she talked about the shortcut mentality, 737 00:40:37.769 --> 00:40:40.570 that it used to be that our culture was telling 738 00:40:40.670 --> 00:40:43.769 men that the chase was is a part of the 739 00:40:43.829 --> 00:40:47.610 experience of being a male, that you're supposed to court 740 00:40:47.670 --> 00:40:50.570 the female, that if you want to be romantic with 741 00:40:50.610 --> 00:40:52.679 the female, you actually have to earn it, you have 742 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.170 to do the hard work, you have to provide for her. 743 00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:58.820 And now we have bypassed all of that in the 744 00:40:58.860 --> 00:41:03.239 form of pornography, and we've bypassed the formative experiences of 745 00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:10.300 hard work on the Faustian bargain myth that if I 746 00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:14.070 just keep gambling enough, at some point, I'm finally going 747 00:41:14.090 --> 00:41:18.210 to win. And we all know the gambling algorithms in 748 00:41:18.230 --> 00:41:23.239 the long run are all against the user, right? 749 00:41:23.340 --> 00:41:24.800 Yeah, 100%. 750 00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:26.900 And so many of these dudes, these video game guys, 751 00:41:26.940 --> 00:41:31.320 they probably punt and madden. So that's what we're dealing 752 00:41:31.340 --> 00:41:31.619 with here. 753 00:41:31.940 --> 00:41:33.039 I appreciate that, Dean. 754 00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:34.860 And I think it's important that we not just be 755 00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:37.960 a bunch of old guys berating younger guys. 756 00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:40.760 That's the oldest tale in the book. These are big problems. 757 00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:44.079 The The question is, what are we going to do 758 00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:44.500 about it? 759 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:48.420 And I think we've talked about. 760 00:41:48.300 --> 00:41:50.440 On this podcast before, there are a lot of voices 761 00:41:50.539 --> 00:41:53.909 out there who are speaking to this exact demographic. 762 00:41:54.750 --> 00:41:57.090 And some of them are very destructive. 763

00:41:57.110 --> 00:42:02.519 The Andrew Tate voices, other non-Christian voices who are taking guys. 764 00:42:02.260 --> 00:42:04.760 Who are clearly lost. They have no. 765 00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:08.139 meaningful role model in their life. Who's given them a 766 00:42:08.179 --> 00:42:10.880 pathway to what it is that their heart's desire is 767 00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:15.260 actually looking for. Um, and so they're going to, to, 768 00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:17.789 to carnival barkers who will take advantage of them and 769 00:42:17.829 --> 00:42:18.769 lead them further. 770 00:42:18.489 --> 00:42:20.130 Down a path of destruction. 771 00:42:20.150 --> 00:42:23.829 Or maybe there's a somewhat more fruitful version of this 772 00:42:23.909 --> 00:42:29.570 that says, um, discipline yourself so that you can live 773 00:42:29.590 --> 00:42:32.619 a certain kind of hedonistic lifestyle for real. 774 00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:34.340 Take it out of the video game world. 775 00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.150 Um, Wake up at 4 a.m., hit the gym for 776 00:42:38.170 --> 00:42:41.190 the first time that day. By the time your competitors 777 00:42:41.230 --> 00:42:43.130 have woken up, you've already got half a day of 778 00:42:43.210 --> 00:42:43.929 work in. 779 00:42:46.050 --> 00:42:52.710 That's sort of like buy a Rolex, get a fancy car, sell, sell, sell, 780 00:42:53.309 --> 00:42:55.989 burn out. That's meaningless too, right? 781 00:42:56.219 --> 00:42:58.260 But that's out there, and at least they're not in 782 00:42:58.280 --> 00:42:59.760 their mother's basement at that point. 783 00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:06.469 But it's still a distraction. What they need is– gospel. 784 00:43:06.530 --> 00:43:08.289 They need a vision for the kind of life that 785 00:43:08.349 --> 00:43:12.349 Eric laid out, a Genesis 2 life that says, I 786 00:43:12.409 --> 00:43:14.849 made you, I made a compliment for you. 787 00:43:14.869 --> 00:43:17.809 It's really good that she exists. 788 00:43:18.409 --> 00:43:21.690 And you two together have some tasks to fulfill on 789 00:43:21.750 --> 00:43:24.389 this earth that I have made you for. I want 790 00:43:24.429 --> 00:43:27.380 you to co-create with me together with your partner. That's 791 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:31.239 the biblical vision of a life well-lived. And It's our 792 00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:34.920 responsibility to share that message with young men. They're thirsty 793 00:43:34.980 --> 00:43:36.840 for it. Somebody's got to get out there and do it. 794 00:43:36.900 --> 00:43:38.530 I know he's berated these days. 795 00:43:38.590 --> 00:43:39.389 I just noticed today. 796 00:43:39.570 --> 00:43:41.050 I still have this book on my shelf. 797 00:43:42.780 --> 00:43:44.889 I was getting mocked for this in college, but when 798 00:43:44.929 --> 00:43:47.449 John Eldridge wrote Wild and Bark back. 799 00:43:47.329 --> 00:43:50.090 In the day, this book spoke to me. 800 00:43:50.289 --> 00:43:51.969 I think I was 19 when I read this for 801 00:43:52.010 --> 00:43:54.409 the first time, and I needed to. 802 00:43:54.610 --> 00:43:55.190 I don't know. 803 00:43:55.989 --> 00:43:57.610 I don't know who those guys are today, but I 804 00:43:57.650 --> 00:44:00.639 think we need somebody who can reach the generation with 805 00:44:00.659 --> 00:44:01.699 this kind of a message again. 806 00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:03.599 Yeah, no one's saying that it's bad if you're a 807 00:44:03.619 --> 00:44:05.920 dad and you play Madden at night or MLB the 808 00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:08.599 show with your kid or on a Saturday. We're talking 809 00:44:08.619 --> 00:44:10.030 about the lifestyle of it, right? 810 00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:10.739 Yeah, yeah. 811 00:44:10.989 --> 00:44:12.550 And what's happening when you see when a guy who 812 00:44:12.590 --> 00:44:15.409 just puts his headphones on and is talking to somebody 813 00:44:15.489 --> 00:44:19.030 not in person. about Fortnite for seven hours a day. 814 00:44:19.050 --> 00:44:24.809 Or just video games is what they do. I think 815 00:44:24.849 --> 00:44:26.650 it's troubling. Outside of just a fun random thing, it 816 00:44:26.690 --> 00:44:30.250 becomes the hobby. When you're an adult, I just worry 817 00:44:30.269 --> 00:44:32.250 about that. And then you're going to have kids that 818 00:44:32.269 --> 00:44:34.409 take it to a whole other level. And all they're 819 00:44:34.429 --> 00:44:35.610 ever going to do is be in front of screens 820 00:44:35.650 --> 00:44:36.170 and video games. 821 00:44:37.170 --> 00:44:40.320 Sounds like every accusation is a confession, Dean. 822 00:44:40.340 --> 00:44:42.760 Bro, I have not played games since I was 12 823 00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:44.360 years old. So, yeah. 824 00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:47.179 I think that... To Tietzel's question, you know, what are 825 00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:48.980 we going to do about it? I think we do 826 00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:51.989 need to, this is where we're plugging into your local church, 827 00:44:52.300 --> 00:44:57.050 investing in, you know, your students, your teenagers, being involved 828 00:44:57.090 --> 00:44:59.849 with other young adult men, you know, college age kids. 829 00:45:00.590 --> 00:45:02.849 We got to be having these conversations. We got to 830 00:45:02.889 --> 00:45:06.170 talk about these things. I'm reminded of Proverbs 25, 28. 831 00:45:06.170 --> 00:45:08.230 I want to read this to you guys. A man 832 00:45:08.309 --> 00:45:11.670 without self-control is like a city broken into and left 833 00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:22.769 without walls. You think about these vices, the gaming addiction, marijuana, gambling, pornography. 834 00:45:23.429 --> 00:45:27.909 These are all vices that cause men to lose their 835 00:45:27.929 --> 00:45:31.489 lack of self-control and being able to control your passions 836 00:45:31.570 --> 00:45:34.780 and rule yourself. And the result of that, he compares 837 00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:36.980 it in the ancient

world, a city broken into and 838 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:41.559 left without walls is a city vulnerable to destruction. They 839 00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:45.369 are vulnerable to being sacked having everything that they care 840 00:45:45.409 --> 00:45:48.829 about taken and that's what the proverb the solomon says 841 00:45:49.210 --> 00:45:52.610 that's the man without self-control he's vulnerable to destruction he's 842 00:45:52.750 --> 00:45:56.190 he's he's going to be destroyed from within and so 843 00:45:56.329 --> 00:45:59.110 i think it matters not to be curmudgeons and be 844 00:45:59.139 --> 00:46:02.360 like these guys doing this stuff if we actually care 845 00:46:02.380 --> 00:46:05.420 and love people we need to show them there's a 846 00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:08.219 better way that there's actually a way that leads to 847 00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:10.739 life and flourishing and that the path their own leads 848 00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:13.219 to destruction and that's the truth we just have to 849 00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:13.800 show them that. 850 00:46:15.949 --> 00:46:17.610 That's well said. Yeah. I'm going to be a little 851 00:46:17.630 --> 00:46:21.590 curmudgeon though about it. Just FYI. You're allowed. You're allowed. 852 00:46:22.510 --> 00:46:25.250 Let's move into everybody's favorite part of the podcast. What 853 00:46:25.329 --> 00:46:28.429 caught my eye? Let's start with the mayor. 854 00:46:28.449 --> 00:46:32.150 Hey guys. So you mentioned Ryan Burge earlier. I got 855 00:46:32.190 --> 00:46:36.329 another poll from him. I actually enjoy his stuff. So 856 00:46:36.349 --> 00:46:38.210 a couple of things, what caught my eye were two 857 00:46:38.250 --> 00:46:41.849 things in this. Among Catholic priests who were ordained prior 858 00:46:42.010 --> 00:46:50.550 to 1975. 14% are politically conservative. 61% are politically liberal. 859 00:46:51.869 --> 00:46:55.429 It's like, whoa, okay. Among Catholic priests who were ordained 860 00:46:55.530 --> 00:47:02.510 in 2010 or later, 51% politically conservative, 12% politically liberal. 861 00:47:03.190 --> 00:47:06.409 I mean, that is legitimately a vibe shift. And I 862 00:47:06.429 --> 00:47:08.409 know we've kind of used that tongue-in-cheek, but that really 863 00:47:08.510 --> 00:47:10.989 is a vibe shift in the Catholic Church, and it's 864 00:47:11.010 --> 00:47:12.039 really kind of cool to see. 865 00:47:12.699 --> 00:47:12.880 Yeah. 866 00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:18.179 Yeah, over the last 20 years in North America, the 867 00:47:18.219 --> 00:47:22.989 priesthood has generally gotten more conservative. And I think that's 868 00:47:23.070 --> 00:47:28.530 kind of the effect of JP II and then Ratzinger, 869 00:47:28.650 --> 00:47:33.289 or I guess Benedict XVI, who are very conservative. The 870 00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:36.820 question is what's going to happen with those who are 871 00:47:37.219 --> 00:47:42.159 ordained under Pope Francis, to put it mildly. is not 872 00:47:42.260 --> 00:47:42.960 cut from the cloth. 873 00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:45.760 Yeah, reverse five shift. 874 00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:48.880 Reverse five shift. But no, that is a fascinating statistic. 875 00:47:49.219 --> 00:47:50.199 Yeah. 876 00:47:50.219 --> 00:47:56.760 Tinsel, what about you? What caught your eye? 877 00:47:56.969 --> 00:47:59.070 I'm tempted to talk about fantasy football here, but since 878 00:47:59.090 --> 00:48:03.130 we just talked about young men wasting their time, I'll 879 00:48:03.489 --> 00:48:03.869 can that. 880 00:48:06.269 --> 00:48:09.440 Woke one is over. I don't know if you all heard. 881 00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:11.530 The news broke. I heard. 882 00:48:13.179 --> 00:48:16.730 Yeah, the New York Times has deemed it. And even 883 00:48:16.989 --> 00:48:20.989 characters like AOC are saying, as she recently said, something 884 00:48:21.010 --> 00:48:23.769 to the effect of, yeah, Woke One was kind of crazy. 885 00:48:24.750 --> 00:48:29.210 And it's enough to cause people like me to go, 886 00:48:29.590 --> 00:48:30.590 I'm sorry, what? 887 00:48:33.409 --> 00:48:34.909 It's like the meme, are we the baddies? 888 00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:39.639 Wait, let's just pretend like we weren't just out here 889 00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:44.539 calling for the abolishment of all police and prisons and 890 00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:47.820 closing down schools and demanding that you put a cloth 891 00:48:47.900 --> 00:48:50.480 on your face to go out in public and saying 892 00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:53.289 that all white people need to apologize. 893 00:48:52.659 --> 00:48:56.260 For the color of their skin all the time. She's 894 00:48:56.300 --> 00:48:59.320 just getting a whole refresh on the brand, man. That 895 00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:00.489 was kind of crazy. 896 00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:03.730 She's calling for like a big like, whoopsie, let's just 897 00:49:03.789 --> 00:49:04.590 redo that over. 898 00:49:04.829 --> 00:49:09.650 Literally, it's like, cut, can we take another? And they're 899 00:49:09.690 --> 00:49:12.130 trying to move past this. I think it opens all 900 00:49:12.190 --> 00:49:17.170 kinds of questions about, one, what was that? If it's true, like, 901 00:49:17.650 --> 00:49:19.980 was this just the madness of crowds playing out? 902 00:49:20.019 --> 00:49:22.179 Out over a 10 year period? 903 00:49:24.260 --> 00:49:29.059 Or is this political posturing recognizing the fruit of leading 904 00:49:29.179 --> 00:49:33.730 with what you actually think, like cutting the testicles off 905 00:49:33.849 --> 00:49:38.550 of five year old boys because they think they're a girl? Um, oh, 906 00:49:38.659 --> 00:49:41.150 society didn't like that. We should put that back in the, 907 00:49:41.710 --> 00:49:43.889 put that back in the binder, pull it out, uh, 908 00:49:43.929 --> 00:49:46.610 maybe later when people are ready for it. I am 909 00:49:47.369 --> 00:49:51.389 very skeptical that this represents any, anything

meaningful other than, um, 910 00:49:52.070 --> 00:49:55.630 a public narrative. I think that all of this stuff 911 00:49:55.690 --> 00:49:58.650 springs from an actual belief system that is there, that 912 00:49:58.750 --> 00:50:01.969 is real. Um, To the extent it can be real, 913 00:50:01.989 --> 00:50:05.570 it's not rooted in anything other than everything the opposite 914 00:50:05.590 --> 00:50:10.710 of the Bible teaches. It's a rebellion against the created order. 915 00:50:11.530 --> 00:50:13.769 But nevertheless, there is a created order, and if you 916 00:50:13.829 --> 00:50:15.750 hate God and you hate His order, this is the 917 00:50:15.789 --> 00:50:16.730 direction you're going to go. 918 00:50:16.789 --> 00:50:18.110 And a lot of these people still do. 919 00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:22.559 So I'm not buying the narrative shift or the apologies, 920 00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:24.500 or to the extent they are apologies. 921 00:50:26.139 --> 00:50:28.179 I'm going to remain very skeptical. 922 00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:31.079 Reid, what caught your eye? 923 00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:35.119 Man, what's caught my eye is the state of college athletics. 924 00:50:35.260 --> 00:50:39.420 It is the wild, wild west. You have got NFL 925 00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:44.489 roster players who are now leaving the NFL and going 926 00:50:44.820 --> 00:50:52.269 back to college. Wait, what? Claiming eligibility and signing with schools. 927 00:50:52.989 --> 00:50:53.630 Lane Kiffin. 928 00:50:53.650 --> 00:50:54.789 Court allowed. 929 00:50:55.389 --> 00:51:01.119 Yeah. Lane Kiffin, Dean's buddy, is a big part of this. But, yeah, 930 00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:04.210 college athletics right now, guys, the last, I don't know, 931 00:51:04.250 --> 00:51:08.349 four or five years with NIL stuff being allowed, the 932 00:51:08.389 --> 00:51:10.449 players getting to cash in on their image and likeness, 933 00:51:11.230 --> 00:51:15.110 it's chaos. It's chaos. And I don't know how they 934 00:51:15.150 --> 00:51:17.090 rein it in. I don't know how they rein it in. 935 00:51:17.670 --> 00:51:22.269 Something's got to happen. There's no rules anymore. They're literally 936 00:51:22.309 --> 00:51:25.110 making it up every day. And now we've got NFL 937 00:51:25.179 --> 00:51:28.719 professional football players going back to play college ball. It's insane. 938 00:51:29.079 --> 00:51:31.900 So somebody do something. We need an executive order from 939 00:51:31.940 --> 00:51:38.119 President Trump. Sports czar. I hereby volunteer as tribute. Andrew, 940 00:51:38.139 --> 00:51:39.500 what about you? 941 00:51:40.179 --> 00:51:43.590 All right, gentlemen. We need to revisit something that I 942 00:51:43.630 --> 00:51:48.550 disclosed in the previous episode. And Tietzel actually called me 943 00:51:49.150 --> 00:51:53.230 later last week to kind of do an intervention because 944 00:51:53.250 --> 00:51:56.519 he said, have you actually watched The Field of Dreams yet? 945 00:51:57.099 --> 00:51:58.739 Oh, did we fix it? 946 00:51:59.579 --> 00:52:02.139 Okay, I finished it. I finished it. 947 00:52:02.619 --> 00:52:02.920 Oh, no. 948 00:52:03.579 --> 00:52:04.440 This does not feel good. 949 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:08.659 I know. 950 00:52:09.179 --> 00:52:10.059 What is wrong with you? 951 00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:14.619 Who heard the music, Terrence Mann? Hold on. 952 00:52:14.829 --> 00:52:19.309 Hold on. Let me explain myself, all right? I had 953 00:52:20.329 --> 00:52:26.210 epic hopes for this. It's just kind of a bizarre, 954 00:52:26.309 --> 00:52:29.190 obviously it's a bizarre movie. A dude builds up. the 955 00:52:29.250 --> 00:52:30.320 baseball field in a corner. 956 00:52:30.340 --> 00:52:33.199 You have to suspend belief, Andrew. He hears a voice. 957 00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:34.739 You got to go with it, bro. 958 00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:37.880 But it was so jumpy from one thing to the next. 959 00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:42.949 And then he goes to Boston to meet James. What's 960 00:52:42.989 --> 00:52:43.309 his name? 961 00:52:44.230 --> 00:52:46.349 James Earl Jones, who played James Earl Jones. 962 00:52:46.369 --> 00:52:46.550 Yeah. 963 00:52:46.869 --> 00:52:49.090 The character of Terrence Mann, the writer. 964 00:52:49.190 --> 00:52:52.550 And it, Yeah, oh wow, you really remembered his name. 965 00:52:52.570 --> 00:52:56.110 Andrew, everyone knows this. It's like the greatest sports movie 966 00:52:56.210 --> 00:52:58.829 ever made. Your problem, let me tell you what your 967 00:52:58.869 --> 00:52:59.570 problem is. 968 00:52:59.590 --> 00:53:00.670 Yes, get it, Tate, go. 969 00:53:02.190 --> 00:53:05.250 How many times did you sit down and start and 970 00:53:05.289 --> 00:53:06.170 stop this movie? 971 00:53:06.570 --> 00:53:07.329 Tell the audience. 972 00:53:07.969 --> 00:53:09.090 Oh, probably four or five times. 973 00:53:09.869 --> 00:53:11.090 Oh my gosh. 974 00:53:11.510 --> 00:53:15.449 We went all the way through. My brother's anti because 975 00:53:15.510 --> 00:53:18.309 it doesn't depict Shoeless Joe Jackson properly. Like he hits 976 00:53:18.369 --> 00:53:19.349 the wrong side of the plate. 977 00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:26.010 I do have somewhat of an explanation this movie came 978 00:53:26.070 --> 00:53:29.630 out I think in 1989 and I think my mistake 979 00:53:29.710 --> 00:53:32.349 and I'm going to own my mistake my mistake is 980 00:53:32.369 --> 00:53:34.489 that I did not watch this when I was younger 981 00:53:34.510 --> 00:53:36.769 because if I had watched it when I was younger 982 00:53:37.010 --> 00:53:41.409 it would have kind of ingrained itself into my head 983 00:53:42.070 --> 00:53:45.909 as like one of those movies of my childhood and 984 00:53:45.929 --> 00:53:48.429 because I watched it as a 40 year old instead 985 00:53:48.449 --> 00:53:51.469 of like a six-year-old or a 10-year-old, it just doesn't 986 00:53:51.510 --> 00:53:54.050 have the nostalgic

connection. 987 00:53:54.349 --> 00:53:57.130 It's still wrong. It's still a wrong take, Andrew. So 988 00:53:57.329 --> 00:53:57.909 here's the thing. 989 00:53:57.929 --> 00:53:59.769 Moonlight Graham. 990 00:54:00.010 --> 00:54:03.699 For all of that brain of yours, I'm just shocked 991 00:54:04.010 --> 00:54:08.539 at how pitiful your artistic tastes are. Listen, here's the 992 00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:11.659 thing you have to think about. The story is not 993 00:54:11.719 --> 00:54:17.090 about baseball. Baseball is the rapper, man. The story is 994 00:54:17.119 --> 00:54:20.889 about a guy who resents his dad. He resents his dad. 995 00:54:20.909 --> 00:54:23.489 He feels like his dad mailed it in. And he 996 00:54:23.510 --> 00:54:26.389 feels like his dad didn't pursue his dreams. And he 997 00:54:26.429 --> 00:54:29.750 feels like his dad was disconnected from him. And he 998 00:54:30.269 --> 00:54:32.349 doesn't want to be his dad. And he feels like 999 00:54:32.389 --> 00:54:34.230 he's mailing it in. And he's at the age where 1000 00:54:34.250 --> 00:54:37.099 his dad was. So he's going to step out. And 1001 00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:39.420 he's going to do something. And what happens along the way? 1002 00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:43.099 He gets a chance to have this unbelievable experience where, yeah, 1003 00:54:43.139 --> 00:54:45.179 these dead baseball players show up, but who does he 1004 00:54:45.219 --> 00:54:47.989 get to have a catch with and bridge the gap 1005 00:54:48.030 --> 00:54:52.090 with and reconcile with and come to actually understand? He 1006 00:54:52.150 --> 00:54:56.530 comes to understand his dad. And we're not even sure how. 1007 00:54:56.659 --> 00:54:59.079 He just shows up and they play catch. To Andrew's defense, 1008 00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:00.559 it's a really crappy plot line. 1009 00:55:00.860 --> 00:55:02.199 No, it's a picture of a new heaven and a 1010 00:55:02.199 --> 00:55:02.500 new earth. 1011 00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:04.300 It's nostalgic and it's magical. It's nostalgic and it's magical. 1012 00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:06.019 It's a picture of a new heavens and new earth. 1013 00:55:06.099 --> 00:55:06.719 It's a picture. 1014 00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:08.179 Good gracious. Wow. 1015 00:55:08.219 --> 00:55:11.539 Listen, that's... That's like how can we find the gospel 1016 00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:12.480 in Taylor Swift level? 1017 00:55:12.500 --> 00:55:15.880 No, it's not. Listen, dead serious. You know why it 1018 00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:17.820 made me tear up? I love it. You know why 1019 00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:20.489 it made me tear up? He got to have a 1020 00:55:20.530 --> 00:55:25.610 game of catch with his dad who's gone, and all 1021 00:55:25.670 --> 00:55:29.530 things are put right. I think about having a catch 1022 00:55:29.570 --> 00:55:32.360 with my son in a future reality that's coming. 1023 00:55:33.300 --> 00:55:34.800 Now you made me feel terrible. 1024 00:55:34.820 --> 00:55:35.659 You did that to us. 1025 00:55:35.699 --> 00:55:39.579 You should feel terrible. That's what it's doing, though. That's 1026 00:55:39.619 --> 00:55:44.340 the point. That's what it's doing. It connects emotionally with 1027 00:55:44.380 --> 00:55:44.860 these things. 1028 00:55:46.619 --> 00:55:48.440 It could be better produced. 1029 00:55:49.340 --> 00:55:52.280 Andrew, you're not allowed to give any more. Your artistic 1030 00:55:52.340 --> 00:55:54.719 takes are no longer wanted here. 1031 00:55:54.860 --> 00:55:58.179 Every month, we should ask Andrew to watch just a 1032 00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:02.179 universally acclaimed, beloved American film. 1033 00:56:02.579 --> 00:56:04.699 He's like, I don't know, man. I don't know if 1034 00:56:04.739 --> 00:56:07.570 I like The Godfather. The Italian meatballs didn't look as 1035 00:56:07.769 --> 00:56:09.210 tasty as I thought they would. 1036 00:56:09.309 --> 00:56:11.250 My favorite all-time sports movie is Bull Durham. 1037 00:56:11.989 --> 00:56:13.679 I love that one, too. Love that one, too. 1038 00:56:13.690 --> 00:56:14.219 I haven't seen it. 1039 00:56:14.530 --> 00:56:16.610 Sorry. Not thought appropriate. 1040 00:56:17.769 --> 00:56:21.360 All right. Well, on that note, before this gets violent, 1041 00:56:21.380 --> 00:56:24.190 we should probably wrap this podcast up. We want to 1042 00:56:24.230 --> 00:56:27.449 thank everybody for listening and for tuning in despite my 1043 00:56:27.550 --> 00:56:29.389 horribly lame cultural takes. 1044 00:56:29.409 --> 00:56:30.710 Thanks for owning it. 1045 00:56:30.829 --> 00:56:34.389 That's not why you're here. You're here for good gospel 1046 00:56:34.429 --> 00:56:38.989 conversations and good reflections on conservative politics. But if you would, 1047 00:56:39.210 --> 00:56:41.469 share an episode with a friend. Leave us a rating 1048 00:56:41.489 --> 00:56:44.659 and review. And remember always, if men were angels, no 1049 00:56:44.699 --> 00:56:46.239 podcast would be necessary. 1050 00:56:46.420 --> 00:56:47.079 Love you, Iowa. 1051 00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:50.739 If you build it, he'll come. With all the heart.