النص الكامل لحلقة Look for Good: Finding Joy Even When Life Breaks Your Heart

bunk. ⁓ but ⁓ I it was just I love our story. It's just so perfect. And as you know the back story, it makes so much sense for the two of us. I mean, just it just is a great beginning to our friendship. speaker-0: Yeah, it was. And and a and a great reminder to say yes, right. To those of you listening when you're invited. Yeah, when you're invited, say yes, even if it's not convenient, even if the timing isn't perfect. I know for me it wasn't. I'm sure for you it wasn't. But, you know, let's let's dive in and let's let's talk about, you know, when I met you and I I first heard your story, like I said, I was awestruck because what I noticed about you is that you had so much joy. And you had so much light and you seemed so happy. And for many people that have gone through the types of things that you've gone through, that would not be the case. And so let's have you just share a little bit about your story. Obviously, you talk about it in your book and you've got to pick up this book, look for good, everyone. But ⁓ take us back to all of the things that happened a few years back and ⁓ and we'll take it from there. speaker-1: Well, I would say the key transformational year would have been twenty eighteen. January fourth, twenty eighteen changed my life forever because that's when I got that phone call that I had ⁓ triple negative breast cancer. And all I really still focus on is that they said aggressive and invasive treat immediately. And it was really a shock because even though I knew I was having a biopsy, I was kind of in what I like to say. Optimistic delusion, you know, just kind of in a state of this is gonna be fine. We're gonna be great. And I still think I walked through that a bit, like, okay, fine, what's the next thing? Let's do it. But never I was never going to accept the victim mentality. So that's that's kind of in a personality point. But then from a spiritual point, you know, God, why are we doing this? You know, and I began, you have a lot of time in the treatment. I know you've been through things too, where it's just a full-time job. You so in your waiting, you know, spent time in prayer, spent time reading the Bible. And I felt God transformed my perspective of my position to him, in that he loves me. And we're all gonna have things that we walk through, but he loves me. And I can take faith in his redeeming the hard times and being with me in the hard times because. He loves me. And so I I made it through my cancer and ⁓ probably 15 months and then you know getting back into shape was a big deal, but I was healthy again and I was great. Now part of the backstory is that six months before I was diagnosed, my mother was diagnosed with metastatic ovarian cancer, and through that commonality, we discovered that we have the BRCA2 gene. So it's just a mutation, a mutation that predisposes our family to a higher rate of reproductive ⁓ cancers. So it n s not surprisingly, it's either breast or ovarian. And but my mom's was already

to a point, like it was discovered beyond the ⁓ ovaries. So, you know, we already knew it was going to be a struggle. And she did, fought valiantly for five years and then Went home to Jesus. And so that would have been February of twenty twenty three. Which was a really hard time. And then, you know, just walking through it as a family, my mom was a matriarch. She was a single mom. And my sister and I were close. So that was hard. But part of the blessing of that is that my sister and I are closer than ever. Instead of separating without mom as the anchor, we chose to go together. And I just thank God for that. Yeah. Then six months after that. Our 29-year-old daughter Elena was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer. And ⁓ she had been so afraid that she had cancer. Yet when she was diagnosed, I watched a peace come over her in that she recognized that Jesus would walk with her through it and that she would be fine for eternity in heaven. And that ⁓ we didn't know, we didn't know how long. But as it would be, six months later. And in February of twenty-four, we laid her earthly body to rest. And yes, it's sad. Yes, I miss her. She was twenty nine. She was married. She had a three-year-old and a two-year-old. speaker-0: Precious children. speaker-1: And it was sad, but I can see in the whole situation how God gave us an opportunity to live life with intention. To spend those months together, you know, just getting together for no reason. You know, there was a minor eclipse that time. We all got together. The Christmas before, and we have a larger than life family. Large family, but there are all 14 of us all together. And so speaker-0: Yes. I know your energy. speaker-1: And put us in a room for Christmas for three days and it was all pure joy. We didn't argue, we didn't fight, and I felt that that was a gift. You know, as I look back on it, those are such s just warm, heartwarming memories. And priceless. Priceless. And so I can see where God gifted us with that time together. And I can just see how he has worked in our lives to give me the opportunity now to share. Yes, grief is hard. And that's a whole story of how I walked through that. However, grief and joy can exist. And I think it's really hard for some people. And I come across these people all the time. It is okay to be okay. You know, there's a point where you can be at peace that Their life was shorter than we expected. But it was a great life. You know, so ⁓ I I think that's the part that is I wish I could just sprinkle that truth on people. But they have to choose it. They may know it's an opportunity and it's a perspective they can choose, but they have to choose it. speaker-0: Yes, yes. Yeah, it's it's similar to how I often say it's not everything, so don't make it everything. It doesn't minimize the the grief, the pain, the hardship of the circumstance, but it is not the totality of your life unless you make it the totality of your life. Your whole experience can be grief and

pain and suffering. Or as you've so beautifully pointed out, there are lessons and there are nuggets and there are gifts, and you talk all about that. in the book, but I want to back it up because early on in the book, you talk about how you were one of these women that followed the checklist of faith. And it was like being a toddler. Like you would get up and you would, you know, you you ⁓ you, you know, had a bakery you were running, but like you would do your devotional and your prayers and you would like hit the checklist of all of the things. And so many women listening have spiritual practices like that. They have spiritual routines like that. But they might actually be struggling to deeply trust. Let's talk about that. Like, how did you make the transition from a checklist believer to someone who, in all things, really trusted? Was there a moment? Or do you feel like it was just this cascading of stacked moments that forced you to fall into trust? speaker-1: I would say there is that's a combo. However, I think there is one thing I argued with God about my hair. I really thought I was gonna speaker-0: I remember reading that. Like you did not want to do chemo because you're like, I am not gonna lose my hair. speaker-1: Exactly. I had this long, dark, not quite as long and beautiful as yours, but you know, I just it made me look younger, you know, people would mistake me for my college age daughters, you know, kinda you know ego. Ego and a little shallow maybe, but the more I talk the more I talk to women, the more I realize it's it's a thing. You know, we love our countenance of our hair. It's important. And so ⁓ I just really argued, well Bargained with God. ⁓ can I keep my hair? And I really felt this sense. Never an audible voice, but a true speaking into my heart kind of voice, saying, Trust me. Do you trust me? And so there was there's a passage in the Bible in Ephesian Ephesians 3, 14 through 21 that talks about God's love, but then there's a verse, verse 20, that talks about he. through his power within us can do more than we ask or think. I believe that when this hair grew back, this is my hair. This I don't color it, I don't touch it up, anything. This is what came back. It is the exact same texture as my old hair. It is just this unique white, almost blonde, amazing hair. And I think that was God's more than I could ever ask or think. speaker-0: Yes. speaker-1: And I believe he put it on the top of my head so that I would remember because every single day I see it and I have to go, okay, I trust you. You have bigger plans than I can imagine. And with that trust, it just before that in those verses, it talks about our roots growing down into Christ's love. And it talks about how deep and wide and high and long. The love of God is. And so if His love is that big, then our roots can go really deep, like the huge trees that we see. And so, with that trust in God's love for me, that's my default now. I can say, when I'm in those circumstances, I can look at it and go, I don't see how this is going to work out. It looks like we're going into a cave, not a tunnel. I don't see the light. But I trust you because I know how faithful you've been in my past. I know that you've never failed me. And so because of that faith and your provenness, it's grown my daily reliance on him. I you know that I get more confidence on that surrender part than anything. You know, because even if people haven't walked through speaker-0: Well, yeah. speaker-1: Whether they have walked through or not walked through hard times, they don't want to give up. They want to hold their hands like this. And I'm like, you know, that's a great idea, but life circumstances can wrench things from your hands. speaker-0: Yeah. It's true. It's the illusion of control. Right. And and we all speaker-1: How do we not understand? We can say it with our words. We know control is an illusion, but we change our behaviors to line up with it. speaker-0: Yeah. Yes. It's like the faith memes that are like, Well, this is so this is so true. And we share all these memes and stuff. And it's like, Well, we'll see when the crap hits the fan, how much you trust and and what you're speaking to is a what a part of what you speak to in the book, which is that there's it's really important what lens you choose to view things through. And the lens that you choose to view things through can change everything. And so For me in my life, it has been am I going to catastrophize this, dramatize this? Am I going to look for every reason why this is not happening or it's happening slower or this thing I lost this thing? Like I I can focus on that and absolutely that can create one reality. But another reality is I can get curious. And I think what you're talking about is also. You know, getting curious in that, okay, well, let me look back to the past and let me see all the times that things have worked out. Let me see all the times that they worked out even better than I thought they would work out. And also let me be curious about what this might be here to teach me. Where is the the juice? Where is the sweetness in this experience? Where's the nectar? Like where's what where's the honey? Like there's some honey in this experience. I and it's not like if you're listening and you're like That sounds really sweet, but I'm really going through it. I want to tell you this too, and I think Kathy would agree, is that this doesn't necessarily happen in an instant. It's not like we have this heavenly perspective, this like higher, holier perspective instantly, all of a sudden, every single time. I think we're all kind of still like toddlers inside. And when something happens, we wanna get mad and we wanna shout and we wanna scream and we wanna reject it and we wanna rebel against it. And then we settle into, like you said, we settle into surrender. And a lot of people, you know, that are are listening, I know because I I know, you know, the people

in my community really well, they have walked through some really difficult things. And when they're walking through these things, they may also be building something or running a business or ⁓ you know, working a full time job and they have responsibilities or they have dreams. Things that they want to build, they want to put out there into the world. And you talk about how you still were showing up and you were still putting in shifts at the bakery. And this is a topic that I really love. In fact, part of the book I'm writing, I talk about how do you keep going through hard times. I would love for you to talk about this. Like, how did you muster the energy of heart, soul, and body to show up and keep moving forward? Why did you? Why didn't you just stay home and rest? And and why was it so important for you to to keep showing up? speaker-1: I think whether it's my stubbornness or just what the what I chose, I am not going to be a victim. And to me, there was and and this is not a judgment on anyone who is so ill that they're bedridden. There were days when I was not that. I mean, I get that. That is not a judgment. But in my case, I had a choice. And so I would get up. And I would go to the bakery because for one thing, I wanted my team to see I'm gonna be okay. This is gonna be okay. It this is just a bump in the road, but we're gonna be fine because they need to see the leader doing that. I mean, that's important to set that example and that okay, she's she's fine. You know, if they don't see you for a while, you know, when you're no communication just leads to fear. And so I that was part of it. But the other part was there was a joy. That came from being able to interact with people. And I made relationships with people who could see what I was going through. And they had either been through it, there was a connection that happened from being out there and living my life that really meant a lot. And I talk about in the book how that daily routine became an anchor. That that gave me a ⁓ tether to the normalness of life when things were out of control. when the illness was the number one priority. It kept me in the I have something to come back to. And I think that I didn't even realize how important it was at the time. But in hindsight, it was a gift. speaker-0: Yeah, it really is. It's it's what you say the ordinary is an anchor. Yes. And sometimes when we're going through difficulties, loss, transformation, losing a job, you know, losing finances, betrayal, whatever it might be, we can we can literally let go of all of those things. And if we do let go of all of those things, all of the ordinary routines, the daily tasks, the small habits, the things that Built us, we will start to lose ourselves and start to lose our way. And it's not like you can't come back from that. But I have learned, and for me, I call them daily minimum standards. It's like I have some daily minimum standards in my life that no matter what is happening, I do because, like you said, it anchors you, it tethers you. You know, even when all hell is breaking loose and it feels like everything is a dumpster fire. If you can center yourself and ground yourself in a couple simple routines, you will recover faster. You'll bounce back. It doesn't mean you're not gonna have to go through it, but I believe that these anchors you're talking about are like the steady in the storm. They're like the part that that helps you feel like I am gonna be okay, like I am normal. And so if you are going through it and you're listening, I want you to think about what are some things that I can anchor into? Some specific daily routines that I can engage in. And one of those that I know you're really great at is cultivating a thankful heart. Yes. And you talk about it as cultivating a thankful heart and a thankful eye, even when it seems like everything is crumbling. How do you do that? What does it look like? Because we hear all the time, gratitude is alchemy, gratitude is it's the gateway. And it's like again, meme, meme, meme, like all the memes. But like what does this actually look like in an embodied practice, something that you're doing regularly? speaker-1: I intentionally write down every morning things I am grateful for from the day before. And there are times when I've gotten away from it and I have to go back and like write it on my calendar. Be grateful. I mean like have the reminder set. Be grateful. And I might only think of one thing. And sometimes it's a very basic thing. But then as you Turn your lens that way when you're filtered toward looking, you see more. You have those glasses on. You see, and so I catch myself during the day going, This is what I'm gonna write down tomorrow, because this is amazing. Who knew I was gonna make this new friend? Who knew I was gonna connect with this person? Who knew that I could bring a smile to someone's day just by smiling? You know, just by being kind, being patient when you're in the checkout line, those things surprise people. But you're sharing the goodness that's happening in your own life. And then I think it comes back to you. Because you're gonna have days when you're like, well, fine, that sounds great, Kathy, but that is not how my week has been going. And everything keeps falling apart. I mean, you might have to say, thank God this isn't gonna last forever. This is a season. I mean, like seriously, that may be what you're thanking, thanking him for. Well that was it hasn't been two days like that. You know, like they are just little things that I think we can be grateful. Yeah. I also found times when I have to just say, God help my unbelief. Help me change that lens because we're speaker-0: Yeah. Wait. speaker-1: just become myopic in the wrong parts. speaker-0: Yeah, I believe that as well. And I believe that sometimes we feel this way or we feel, you know, this lack of gratitude because we have blocked even feeling, right? When we are experiencing

challenges ⁓ in our lives, you know, and you talk about this in the book how, you know, you would kind of rush around and try to make sure everyone else was okay and try to tend to everything else and control everything else around you. But you weren't actually allowing yourself to experience the feelings and the emotions. And I had this experience just a couple of days ago where I I was driving, I dropped my daughters off at gymnastics, and I was driving myself to Orange Theory to take a class while they were at gymnastics. And ⁓ and I the tears just started to well up. And I was like, this is so weird. Like, why is this happening? Well, when I went back and I I got curious about it, I had been engaged in a lot of growth activities that day. Things new things that I was learning. I I was being coached, I was meeting with my book writing coach. I was learning about AI, like so many different things that were taking me outside of my comfort zone, which challenges, trials, struggles take you outside of your comfort zone. But so too does trying to stretch and do something you've never done before. And it's really, really uncomfortable. And so I recognize that the emotions that were coming up were like the fears of what if I can't do this? What if it's not okay? What if it doesn't work out? And I let myself feel all of those emotions. And the next day I felt like a completely different person because I allowed myself to feel. And so you talk about, you know, acceptance versus numbness. You talk about, you know, ⁓ being there versus being responsible, empathy versus control. And a lot about emotions in your book. Talk to us about some of the lessons that you learned. speaker-1: Wow, I you know, I think some of it is especially for I would guess a lot of your community. As high functioning females, we are great at doing. And that is our comfort zone. So doing is a lot easier than feeling. And I didn't even realize I was doing it. I mean, I didn't even realize that I would wake up with this phantom checklist in my head of going through every member of my family. Are they okay? Are they okay? Are they okay? And with some strange, also phantom connection to then I can be okay. If everybody else is okay, and what can I physically do to make them okay? Well, first of all, that's not how it works. That's not how grief works. And I have no nothing to to do with them. I can nurture them. I can walk alongside of them. But I had to realize that was my excuse. That was me avoiding feeling any of the feelings of pain, of loss. I realized in hindsight that I didn't grieve my mother's death before I started learning what was going on with my daughter. speaker-0: Yes. speaker-1: We had been too much in the estate part of that, you know, helping my stepfather and the just the details of changing everything and running a business that she had left behind. That I hadn't so it was compounded by the time Elena was gone. And so that grief and recognizing that I had to feel

those things. Emotions, whether you wanna I don't believe mo emotions are good or bad. But there are hard ones and there are more joyful ones. And so the hard things you still have to feel. And you learn to feel them and realize this is not going to be as painful the next time. If you do not, it becomes a pressure cooker situation. And we all know how a pressure cooker works. It either explodes or the pressure has to be released. And I just think that you it takes an individual effort to figure out how to best process it for you. in a healthy way, which is not alcohol, which is not avoidance, which is not just caught up in a Hallmark happily ever after marathon. I mean those things have their places. I don't know that I agree with the alcohol. But you know they're these things have their places, but they cannot be the crutch or the avoiding avoidance of the emotion. And I just think that in our culture and society, speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: we don't always do a great job. And I feel now as a grandmother and a mom, it's my responsibility to feel these things, but also to teach the next generations that this is going to happen. Here's how we process the things that aren't great. We're great at celebrating. We know how to celebrate. Do we know how to mourn? Do we know how to grieve? Do we know how to just walk along beside people and be there while the things are speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. We need to learn how to accept, receive, and process all the different emotions. Because if we live in an if-then kind of life framework or business framework, like if I make this amount of money, then I'll feel successful. If all of my kids are happy and not on drugs and doing what I think they should be doing, then I'll be happy. It's like the if-then, it's always circumstantial. And I would say that that's conditional peace. But there's unconditional peace that's also available to you. Unconditional peace, which is knowing that, you know, you you're not in control of everything, that you you can control your reactions and your actions, and you can be proactive in the way that you show up and feel your emotions and process them and you can make decisions and changes, but you can't control everyone else around you. And when you learn to surrender that you do experience a new level of peace, even when things are not easy. You did mention this because when you were talking about acceptance versus numbness in your book, you talked about, I can't remember if it was a mimosa or what it was, but you were talking about this one day, you were mixing your drink and having your drink, and you were irritated because it wasn't giving you the same experience, the same feeling, essentially the same numbness. And so You're like, well, I'm just gonna stop drinking for a year. Now, for those of you listening, if you enjoy your wine or you enjoy your things, this is not judgment, but I think it's worth listening to a perspective of somebody that decided to quit because you realized

what? speaker-1: It really I did not get even a temporary euphoria. You know, I know that alcohol is a depressant and everyone can tell you that. But it in my experience, I enjoyed that little and it by the way, it was ranch water, I liked Keila. And so ⁓ I enjoyed that and then all of a sudden I realized I don't feel that and I only feel bad. I mean I there was nothing good associated with that. And then the realization, because I would have told you even a month before, those people that I heard that would say, ⁓ I've stopped drinking and it my life has changed. And I'm like, ⁓ that's that doesn't apply to me and I'm fine and I don't need this, you know, abstinence from alcohol. But what I didn't know is the clarity that came. I didn't even know that there was a numbingness. of ⁓ thought, perspective, creativity, and let alone the physical attributes of you know, your body's trying to process something that's not really normally processed. It's not like nutritious food that your body is built to process. So you're kind of fighting with yourself along the way. And then I just couldn't believe the clarity. I mean I really could not believe because I would have told you I was a clear thinker, that I was wise, that I could, I was sharp. You know, like I was probably even sharper when I was drinking that first drink. Ooh, that was great. It was a lie. It was not true. And so then I thought, okay, I'll just try it for a year. And then after a year, I thought, I really like this. And now it's to a point where maybe I'll have a sip of champagne in a celebration. But can have a non-alcohol fun drink that I enjoy in a celebratory mode and there's no recovering from that. There's no side effects. And I really I like being that way. I believe that I've accomplished more because of that. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And I think also to the point of, you know, whether it's alcohol or it's food or it's social media or it's exercise or whatever it is, ⁓ you know, sometimes when we are feeling insecure, when we're feeling afraid, when we're going through a challenge, we will turn to things that can become a numbing mechanism and can block our ability to feel because it's taking up the space, the time. etc. And anything that numbs you is going to slow your progress. It's going to slow your ability to heal. It's going to make you less sharp. It's going to make you less in tune with your emotions. And it's really going to keep you stuck. And so, you know, whether it's alcohol or food or whatever it is for you, I always say we're all addicts. We just have different conditions. And once the gig's up and you realize what your addiction is, ⁓ and then what's behind that and what you're trying to avoid. And typically it's we're trying to avoid having to feel. We're trying to avoid, you know, maybe you don't want to feel insecure. You don't want to feel like you don't belong. You don't want to feel the fear, you don't want to feel the anxiety, whatever it is, it's this desire

to not feel. But like you said earlier in the podcast, whatever you put off, excuse me, whatever you put off, whatever you shove down, it's like a pressure cooker. And it is absolutely going to come to a head. And so as you look back and and you look back at discovering an actual deeply rooted faith through grief, through losing your mother, through losing your 29-year-old daughter, which honestly, for those of you listening, I cannot even imagine, right? I have ⁓ my oldest is almost twenty, and I I can't imagine only having nine years left with him. Or my mother. She's turning seventy-eight next week, and and I just keep Hoping and praying, she lives till she's 98 and she's a spitfire, you know? But nothing is guaranteed. But you know, as you think back and you look back over the last, I guess, five to ten years of your life, if you were to sum up what you wish people knew deep in their hearts, what you wish in whatever time of uncertainty, challenge, trial, ⁓ newness that they're walking through, if you you like, I just wish. I could transfer this into somebody's heart. And I I w this is what I wanna get on the rooftops and I wanna shout to people. What would that be? speaker-1: The first premise is how much you're loved. That God loves you so much. The sec and and won't let you alone. He won't leave you. He will never leave you. The second thing is you are so strong. You can do more. And the things that you've been through, you can get through them. You're not alone, you have God with you. I pray you have a community with you and you can get through them and they will make you stronger on the other side. You will have a story to tell. We can all learn from the strength that you've gained. Because as I say, let's see how the nicest way I can say this. Crap is gonna happen. Are we gonna use it for fertilizer or is it just gonna smell that? You know, so That's how life is. It's just the way life is. And I see that. And I am grateful for my faith to know I also have an eternal perspective. You know, Earth is not a fun place to live. You know, things don't go well. Things are gonna be bad. There's decay, there's death. We have to face those things. But we can always find a flip side that has positive with it. You know, I when you said the thing about losing a child. I had 29 years with her. I have a friend whose daughter-in-law has had three stillbirths. Don't you think she would appreciate 29 years? Or like think about back in the old days when we were exploring the West and you started out in on the East Coast and you put your 15 year old newly married daughter on a wagon train and said, Good luck. Hope everything goes well for your life. And then you don't know. So there's something about just choosing a perspective of thank you, God, for this time. Thank you, God, for these little moments that we've had. Thank you for the years of life, the relationships, the love, the care, the opportunities to grow and be the best that I can be with the purposes you've placed in my heart. And I just think sometimes those purposes are. fertilized by the hard stuff. speaker-0: Amen. I love that. I mean, crap is gonna happen. It's either gonna be fertilizer or it's gonna make everything stink. It's probably the thing I've heard all day. ⁓ you know, this has been absolutely incredible and so just restorative and nurturing for me, and I know will be for everyone listening. You know, I am all about living a revolutionary life. And when I say living a revolutionary life, I mean speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: not just going with the crowd, going with the norm, ⁓ being like everyone else. ⁓ it's about carving a path that's unique and it's about, you know, following that internal compass. And so I'm just curious how you would define living a revolutionary life. speaker-1: Being secure in who you are. You were created uniquely for a purpose, multiple purposes, maybe, but God made you who you are. You're the only one living your life. And if you can be secure in being a creation of the Almighty God who made the entire universe, He doesn't just make things up. He makes with purpose and intent and creativity. So yes, what is that in you? And how can we facilitate you nurturing that to maximize that in our life? Because that's one of my favorite things about you, bro. You are counter. You call things out for what is true and what is just marketing. I love that about you. And you believe in nurturing each other in community and particularly women to facilitate the greatness that they can accomplish. And I'm sure you have disappointments in that you believe in people more than they do. If we could just plant that seed of you believe in you, you believe in you and you do that. I I think that's how we carve our path. speaker-0: A hundred percent. I couldn't agree more because all the comparison and all the looking around at everyone else, it does not anchor you in who you are and who you were made to be. And it it actually is an act of rebellion, a revolutionary type of act to like truly accept yourself and the way that you were made and what you what you're here to do and just walk your own path and walk your own journey in co-creation with God. But like to not look around and try to be like everyone else. And we live in a world in an unprecedented time where that is what happens so often and it rocks people's confidence. And then it really steals them of their gifting and what they're here to do. And so for those of you listening today, remember who you are. Remember that the world needs what's inside of you, your experiences, your stories, your abilities, your skills, your gifts, your talents, if you want to call it that. And Kathy, you certainly are making such a difference with your talents and with your gifts. Everyone listening, if you have not, I'm holding up the book here if you're seeing this. If you have not grabbed Look For Good, first of all, can we have a moment for this beautiful cover? You need to run out and grab this book. The beautiful thing about it, which was so helpful for me, is like this didn't have to take me days and days to read. Right. It's a it's a really practical will speak to your heart and your soul book that you could pick up and read in a weekend and it would be transformational for you. So Kathy, I've so appreciated this time. I've loved spending it with you. Thank you for pouring into everyone listening. Before we go, where's the best place for people to connect with you? speaker-1: Now ⁓ Instagram at the Kathy Rogers or I have a website which has everything on it. ⁓ and so and it's also the Kathy Rogers.com. And so you can connect there, you can get on our email list, you can access the podcast, you can buy the hardcovcover autographed copy of the book. ⁓ and there's that's a great place to connect. And I would through there. Contact me. If you have questions, if you're looking for good and you're finding it or you're impacted by the book, let me know. That is just touching my heart so much. And I love being able to tell others, look, this is how it affected Katie. You know, this is how it affected John. And it's been a really great blessing. So I think the website's the best way to find me. speaker-0: Fantastic. And we'll link all of that website, Instagram, all the things in the show notes so you can keep up with Kathy. And I do want to just put a little plug in there for what she said. I really feel like it's so important when someone impacts us that we let them know, that we pay it forward. So if you've listened to this podcast and it's impacted you, send Kathy a message. If you read her book, send her a message, send her an email. This goes for anything and anyone. I think so often we keep these things inside and we never know how it's going to bless the person that's, you know, they've borne their soul, they've put their work out there into the world. ⁓ it really is this beautiful energy that goes back and forth. And I also think if someone changes your life, it's like it's, it's a, it's a an a responsibility to let them know. So if you've listened to this and it's impacted you, please share with a friend that needs to hear it. Please share on social media and please reach out to Kathy. Thank you so much for being here, Kathy. We love you. And we'll see you next time on the show, everyone. Thanks for listening in today. This show exists to help you shift your perspective, open up your heart, and live, lead, and create a revolutionary life. If you loved today's episode, leave us a review, rate, and subscribe. And while you're at it, tag me on social at HemingwayHalfDozin as you share this episode with anyone you know that is ready to step into more. Until next time, go out there and be the revolution.