النص الكامل لحلقة Inclusive intelligence with Furkan Karayel

different experiences. 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:40.240 For example, uh working as a woman, sometimes you are the only woman in the meeting, or as a non-native English speaker, you have so many of your own doubts as well to speak or not to speak, if you would be criticized, if you could uh you know open up your mouth and then be self-criticizing yourself as well. 00:06:40.639 --> 00:07:01.120 And uh these were all learning points, and what makes them what makes us inclusive leaders are obviously not only limited to the six skills, but these six skills were the most visible ones when we have done our research. 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:12.720 And it changes from organization to organization, but these were the six skills we have seen that was highly, highly visible in those leaders. 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:23.439 That's really interesting, and um, on on the subject matter of um you know um self-awareness, I think I love your quote and which you put in the book. 00:07:23.600 --> 00:08:10.879 Um diversity is you because you are unique, inclusion is accepting you because you matter, and I think that's so powerful because sometimes, depending on kind of your cultural background and your experiences, we sometimes think of inclusion like in a very limited way, like you know, um ethnic diversity, whereas it's so much more about that, and I just love the fact that actually everyone's included in this world of inclusion, um, not just individuals who you know um might feel like they um you know at first don't um naturally belong to the in-group depending on who you're asking. 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:26.800 Um I'd love to find out your what um your thoughts on you know when when is it usually the point that leaders um think that actually they need to go and you know address inclusion um in that um organization. 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:34.720 So as you said, you touched into a very important point, Yanina. 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:41.919 Uh with that coach, my uh what I would like to show was it's all about us. 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:44.720 We are all different from one another. 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:50.080 It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter really if we have even a similar background. 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:58.559 I give this example that we might, you know, we grow up in the same environment as our siblings, for example. 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:07.919 Maybe they look like us, we are born to the same parents, maybe we went to the same school, but how different we are even to our own siblings. 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:15.840 I have uh we are six in my family, by the way, and we are completely different from one another. 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:33.759 And uh to demonstrate actually that we all have our own differences, and even we might look very different uh similar, but we have so much differences within us, and especially our personalities. 00:09:34.000 --> 00:10:39.039 If we are an introverted or extroverted, we are not completely 100% one side, but having that understanding of our uh personal uh choices, our uh personality uh differences, they all uh they all counted in diversity and inclusion, and uh they all matter, and we all need to uh embrace it, our own differences, and starting from including ourselves, sometimes we self-sabotage, and I have done this to myself as well that I haven't seen myself as uh qualified enough to speak, sometimes put to put my hand on uh uh the environments that I feel like I was an outsider, uh the imposter syndrome, not having that confidence that you have uh uh you have things to share, you have things to contribute. 00:10:39.200 --> 00:11:11.840 But I wanted to give this um message that let's own our uniqueness, let's our let's own our own um authenticity, that's what makes diverse and inclusion uh truly lived and appreciated, and taking everyone in their own uh agenda, in their own initiatives to make a difference in diverse and inclusion uh world. 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:13.840 So thank you. 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:30.559 And it's really powerful, and I think even more um I found this um other quote in your book um about you know inclusion on paper, how um all individuals from underrepresented groups are believed to be inclusive by default. 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:51.360 So sometimes when you don't see yourself as being part of the conversation because you're in that um majority group um in that environment, you might you know not be part of the conversation, but actually you need to be a part of the conversation because, like you say, it's about everyone um in the organization feeling like they belong. 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:55.279 That's a very good point as well, Yanina. 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:10.159 Sometimes what I see in organizations that they focus on what they what we can show to the world that we are diverse, we are inclusive. 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:20.000 So it's all about how do we look from outside rather than how our employees are feeling welcomed in this organization. 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:41.919 And what can we uh embed to make them feel that they are valued, their contributions are absolutely uh valued in this organization, then they sometimes invest into uh marketing or making up the numbers. 00:12:42.240 --> 00:13:07.279 So my point there is sometimes um you know the investment into only this type of work is not paying off because once the employees are not feeling like themselves, they can't be truly who they are in the workplace as they are outside of workplace, they don't stay there long. 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:18.559 What they do, they change their jobs, they move to another organization, and it costs so much to the organization to replace a talent. 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:31.759 And research shows that more than$40,000 to replace one talent and the talent seniority goes up, the this number goes up as well. 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:37.440 So it's actually a big risk if you look at it from the business perspective. 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:52.879

That's if we are investing into our own people, if you only look at it from the outside, then it actually, you know, uh costing more than not having a diversity at all. 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:58.000 So that is a point that I wanted to really highlight in the book as well. 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:07.279 You did that really well, and that makes me think of the story about connected to rewards for employees and about the ice cream. 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:09.519 Would you like to share that story? 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:13.200 Yes, that's one of the most famous stories. 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:18.799 Everyone would like to um to hear that uh in many different occasions. 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:21.919 So the story is uh like this. 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:40.720 So I it was one of the warmest Irish summer days uh back in the days that I was working in in an organization, and to celebrate that, the organization invited an ice cream man to let the employees enjoy the sunshine outside during the lunchtime. 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:51.440 So everyone got their ice cream, and uh they got back to me and said, Furkan, go and get your ice cream because they are gone. 00:14:52.320 --> 00:15:06.960 And uh it was the first day of Ramadan and I was fasting, and it didn't really bother me because I'm used to it already, and you know, I don't get offended when people eat beside me during the Ramadan. 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:51.120 But the problem was each person passing by my desk was asking me, Furkan, go and get your ice cream, go and get your ice cream, and I had to explain myself to so many people at that day, and at the end of the day, I found myself exhausted, and everyone's energy level went up, but mine went down, and it started to I I started to think like, but the organization that I work for didn't really care about my choice, and uh and why would they not even give an option for people to say to high highlight the things like this? 00:15:51.279 --> 00:16:13.679 Of course, I wasn't going to object to uh a date that they have chosen, but the problem was they had no communication channels to highlight a you know cultural day, cultural um uh issue that was not on the day that you would normally celebrate an ice cream man. 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:23.360 And uh by the each person passing my day my desk, I start losing the belief in my organization. 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:36.879 So that's what happened, and by sharing the story, I'm sharing the importance of building communication channels for organizations. 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:51.440 First of all, who is the point of contact if, let's say, if there's something an employee would like to highlight on the other side, how would you build that trust between the organization and yourself? 00:16:51.679 --> 00:17:16.000 The conversation is um uh confidential, and on the other side, uh the employees will have the courage to bring it up the things that they would like to see in change next time, and it's all about bringing that communication channel and having a place to go to make things better and better. 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:52.319 If I you know highlighted that, I had no doubt the organization wouldn't change it, so they would change it in a heartbeat and they would probably you know do all their best to accommodate my needs next time, but it is that they had no communication channels, and I wasn't um feeling confident enough to, you know, I I wasn't gonna destroy anybody's day just because of me, but on the other side, my um you know, my existence needed to be recognized in the organization as well. 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.640 Yeah, definitely, and I think that's the big part of it. 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:15.519 It's actually not about um you know changing the whole scheme, it's actually um considering how you might feel if people keep asking you and you keep having from to start again, you know, explaining yourself and you know, justifying yourself why you're not going to have an ice cream. 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:42.160 I think that's a really important part, and that's what I found um the most um significant of that story is actually the emotional um um impact it has on that individual, keeping having to you know explain it all over again um for people who you know who also should have the responsibility to find out about different people in their organization. 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:52.400 And I think um it's becoming more aware of actually that individuals themselves hold the responsibility to go and find out, okay. 00:18:52.559 --> 00:19:05.519 So um I have this colleague, um, I wonder what you know what her life's about, you know, because that way you can then educate yourself rather than putting the onus on you having to educate everyone. 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.240 Absolutely, that's a very good point, Yanina. 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:15.440 Um I see in many organizations employee resource groups. 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:42.799 I'm a true believer of employee resource groups, by the way, but in some organizations, the the work on making a change, uh having your voice heard is left on the shoulders of people or the members or the drivers, the leaders of that employee resource groups, as if that they their responsibility, aside from their day-to-day job, is to educate people. 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.799 Actually, it is not, you know, they are volunteering there to make a difference. 00:19:46.880 --> 00:20:27.759 Yes, it's their um, you know, initiative to make a difference, but on the other side, it is actually not their responsibilities to educate people about their background cultures, and uh companies and organizations must understand that it's actually their responsibility to make sure that their employees uh work in a common ground, they have a good understanding of one and another in the team rather than somebody saying that you need to know X, Y, and Z about me to better get a better understanding. 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.680 It's uh it's

not a real scenario. 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:51.359 People wouldn't like to nominate themselves to do that, but um I think they need to keep that good balance to make sure that their employers' resource groups are sustainable, and it's uh in that balance that the the workload is shared. 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:53.519 Yeah, definitely. 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:59.279 And on that, I'd like to um move the um conversation to allyship. 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:15.279 You know, it's a word that's been thrown around quite a lot recently in particular, and you know, just to quote you as well, which I love that um allyship is the courage to choose caring for people who don't look like you. 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:41.039 And I was just thinking about the many times you know we um we stand up for people who look like us, and actually we need to make sure that that's actually we need to give the we need to educate ourselves on people who maybe don't look at like us so we can be an ally to them, and that's where the you know the personal um development comes in as well. 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:45.200 Um, how you know how would people become an ally? 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:48.720 What are the like first steps that people could take? 00:21:50.559 --> 00:22:05.440 Um the easiest, I think, one is to have a friend uh or to have friends uh from Different groups and seeing who do we lunch go to lunch together? 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:17.920 Now we are not going to lunch just together in the office as much as we used to, but to get an understanding who do we spend our time outside of work in the social life? 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:28.160 Do the people around us, are they all the people who look like us, who share the same background or maybe the same values? 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:42.400 Or are we also meeting with people who don't look like us, who have different needs than us, either in the workplace or in the society, or are they advocating for a change? 00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:55.920 For example, in LGBTQ communities, in neurodiversity, in accessibility, in so many different um areas of diversity and inclusion. 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:07.519 What are the things that we can make sure that we understand them in a human level, not only work concept, but outside of the work concept as well? 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:11.359 Do we spend time enough with them to get an understanding? 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:48.319 The second, if we do, how can we be an ally for them is how uh we open up ourselves to share our vulnerability to join them sometimes if it's uh an event that they are participating, or if we see that there must be a change in terms of accessibility in the workplace, for example, or women in the workplace, we don't need to be, we don't need to be a woman to defend the rights of women in the workplace, in the leadership, and so on. 00:23:48.559 --> 00:24:21.519 So I think if we have more people, if we are more exposed to them uh within our closed networks, then we get a better understanding what are the things that they are actually uh experiencing from the first hand so that it becomes like a very relevant thing to us as well, that we build that courage to become an ally for the change that they are advocating. 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:29.440 And so, as us as well, you know, they advocate for an allyship for us and we do the same for them. 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:43.279 That's how it actually grows, and uh that's why thinking diverse and crucial in a holistic way is more important than only looking at it in a culture, cultural or gender perspective. 00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:43.759 Why? 00:24:44.000 --> 00:25:02.799 Because if we have a 50-50 you know parity in the leadership, it is not solving everything, and on the other side, if we have that X amount of uh diversity in our organization, it is not actually solving anything. 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.920 We need to look at it in a holistic way. 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:07.839 What can we do more? 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:18.160 How can we include everyone while we are growing our diversity in our teams and organizations? 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:20.559 Yeah, that's really important. 00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:30.720 And like you say, you know, people might be in a certain position, but are they going to feel empowered enough to speak up when it, you know, when it matters to them most? 00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:34.160 And that also has something to do with who you're surrounded by. 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:46.240 If you think you're surrounded by people who you have to explain everything to from the beginning, you know, you might they might forget your point by the end when you've explained why it's so important. 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:52.960 So again, we come back to that onus of educating yourself, um, which is really important. 00:25:53.279 --> 00:26:00.960 Um, Furkan, would you like to talk us talk more about um the way that people can interact and work with you? 00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:02.640 Of course. 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:07.839 I have a website diversein.com, which is my business website. 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:12.480 I also have a personal website, furkancarealmy name.com. 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:19.200 And if you Google my name, that's probably two of the pages will open or my LinkedIn page as well. 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:34.160 So if anybody has any questions or would like to learn more about inclusive intelligence and how we can implement inclusive intelligence in simple terms for organizations or individuals, I am happy to help. 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:43.839 And you can reach out to me from these uh channels, and uh, I would love to meet with you hopefully in the next time. 00:26:44.000 --> 00:27:01.440 And uh and uh please share this podcast as well if you would like this uh Be Cultural podcast to get reached to so many different uh uh groups, and uh and thank you so much, Janina, for this uh wonderful opportunity. 00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:04.799 It's a great pleasure to to chat with you. 00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:06.880 Oh, thank you very much, Bukhan. 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:15.759 Well, I'm so delighted that you um joined us as a guest, and thank you very much for the encouragement of sharing this podcast. 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:35.039 Um, I think for me on a personal um level, this podcast has been about you know learning from other people and getting an insight into their lives so that I can continue to grow my self-development, and I hope that our listeners can um go on that journey with us. 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:36.480 So it's been really great. 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:40.960 And you know, for we could talk about lots of other things. 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:46.240 Um, I there's so much there, and I also loved your um YouTube channel. 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:54.160 So for people who would like um more information as well, um I think it's a great place to start as well. 00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:56.559 Fantastic. 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:05.440 And Janina, I think that it's so powerful that you turn your learning process to a learning um learning journey for others as well. 00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:07.920 That is, I truly appreciate it. 00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:09.680 Um well done. 00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:17.440 And uh, YouTube is a fantastic way to learn so much about diversity and inclusion and different experiences as well. 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:21.359 Uh, I agree, and it's been a pleasure speaking to you today. 00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:22.319 Thank you. 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:27.200 Thank you very much for can and I would look forward to speaking to you again soon. 00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:28.799 Thank you. 00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:31.680 Thank you for listening, Amberspired.