النص الكامل لحلقة Decode Your Team: The Kolbe Index, Conative Strengths and Hiring Smarter

that's why it's different and then why it's super helpful to understand. 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:09.840 It's part of the mix. 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:13.680 So that you, and because it's instinctive, it doesn't really change over time. 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:15.599 So it's things you can count on. 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:20.159 So, Nick, I'll I'll pick on you here for a second with your fact finder. 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:21.919 And this is actually the same for Josh. 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:23.919 Both of you, I guess I can pick on both of you. 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:26.000 You guys are both sevens and FactFinder. 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:26.879 I'm an eight. 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:28.159 So we're really similar. 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:37.599 What that means in FactFinder is we all initiate the problem-solving process by getting information, doing research, becoming an expert. 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:42.639 If somebody asks us a question and we don't already know the answer, we don't guess. 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:44.000 We get the answer. 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:46.560 Or if we have to guess, maybe we can give it in bounds. 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:52.319 Like, well, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure it's between this and this from what I've looked at already. 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:58.000 Like that's the kind of answer you're gonna get from an initiating, what we call initiating fact finder. 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:07.280 If somebody were a two or one or something, so on the other end of the spectrum and fact finder, and you ask them to guess, they'll give you, yeah, they don't need to know. 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:08.639 Oh, I think it's about this. 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:10.639 You know, they'll just kind of tell you. 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:16.639 Um, they also share, they they tend to give less of a justification and fewer details. 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:22.319 They focus in on one or two key things rather than people like us would do more and more and more. 00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:24.159 Hey, how's the weather in Phoenix, David? 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:26.400 Oh, you know, it's it's really interesting. 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:29.120 It's gonna be hot today, but I'm an eight in fact finder. 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:30.639 It's hard for me to stop. 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:34.800 I you ask me a question, I'm gonna give you a bunch of information. 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:37.039 I am the exact same way. 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:39.599 That's the fact finder, that's the first one. 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:42.879 And then follow through is the second number. 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:45.439 You've got a two in follow-through, David. 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:50.639 I'm relatively uh energy-wise uh a lower with a four. 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:56.000 Uh, we've got Jen with a five, Josh with a six, and Nick also with a four. 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:58.639 So how would how would that follow-through come in? 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:03.599 Yeah, follow-through is how we deal with systems, structure, organization. 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:09.439 So that four, five, and six, that mid-range, it's really the bridge between those extremes. 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:21.519 So the extremes, I described the extremes and fact finder, the extremes and follow-through on the one end are people, the sevens, eights, nines, tens, they really initiate, create systems and structure. 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:25.040 So you you put that kind of person into a really open-ended situation. 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:30.160 They look for patterns, they come up with a plan and a system, and then they stick with it. 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:31.680 That's why it's called the follow-through. 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:35.120 They follow that plan through to the end, they drive for closure. 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:38.720 People on the other end of the spectrum, like me, find shortcuts. 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:40.959 Like, hey, if there's no plan, great. 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:42.720 That's really natural for me. 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:44.959 I operate without a plan most of the time. 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:48.959 If I'm supposed to follow a plan, I usually try to find shortcuts. 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:51.040 Oh, I've gotten through the first four steps. 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:52.319 Can I skip a couple? 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:53.600 Jump to the end. 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:55.600 Neither one is better or worse. 00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:00.480 There are times when my approach is kind of more helpful in a given situation. 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:08.560 But, you know, if you want a safety engineer for the nuclear power plant, you probably don't want me in that role. 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:10.000 You don't want me skipping steps. 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:12.079 There's a plan, there's a reason for it. 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:17.120 So it's not better or worse in general, but yes, in a given situation. 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:26.879 So with you guys and your accommodating strength in follow-through, you guys really prevent bureaucracy from happening sometimes. 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:31.839 I mean, you're not all the way on the end where with me, like I push back against bureaucracy. 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:34.079 You kind of stop the plan from being overwhelming. 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:38.079 You'll find instances where, hey, maybe we can cut a couple of these steps out. 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:42.240 Maybe we can put a couple in, and you'll you'll even see a little differences. 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:43.680 Like Josh has a six. 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:50.879 So of the four of you, I would think he's most likely to check in, like, hey, I think we have a plan for this. 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:51.920 Where are we in it? 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:53.040 Let's get back to that. 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:58.720 He isn't necessarily stopping everything all the time and creating one, but he's the most likely to refer back to it. 00:05:58.720 --> 00:05:59.519 I'm seeing some nods. 00:05:59.920 -->

00:06:01.120 That is very spot on. 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:02.319 He does do that a lot. 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:04.319 And Josh and I are both sixes. 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:06.000 We we kind of roll the same way. 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:11.600 So when we meet, it's kind of like we're always like lockstep with our plans and our process. 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:14.879 And and Eric, on the other hand, would be like, well, the plan just goes out. 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:15.839 He just said this to me yesterday. 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:18.240 The plan goes out the window once we are in the middle of an incident. 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:21.439 So, you know, and I'm like, Yep, yep. 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:22.160 Sure. 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:27.199 You're thinking, how about instead of throwing it out the window, we maybe just tweak it a bit? 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:29.279 Maybe reflect on it. 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:29.759 I don't know. 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:31.839 It's the Mike Tyson quote, right? 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:34.720 The best laid plans go out the window as soon as you get hit in the face. 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:37.680 Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face, I think is the quote. 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:39.279 You still need to know the plan. 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:42.480 See, this is this is our Colby's fighting each other. 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:50.240 But see, one of the great things about Colby is when you get those results, and you guys are you're different, but the differences are not extreme. 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:53.439 You see it a lot when the differences are really big. 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:56.399 And like like, let's just think about this plan thing. 00:06:56.399 --> 00:07:00.079 And I'll use actually my wife and I are pretty far apart. 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:02.399 Um, I'm a two and she's a seven. 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:06.079 So she's very much the systematic, structured plan person. 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:14.560 If we didn't understand that this is just a difference in who we are, she's actually said to me, if I didn't know this about you, I'd want to kill you. 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:24.000 And she probably still does sometimes, but she understands that I don't, when I don't follow her plan or when I mess up her system, it's not because I don't care. 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:26.000 It's because it's just who I am. 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:33.360 Now, because I care, and this is, I mean, I'm talking about a personal relationship, but the same thing is true at work. 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:37.360 Look, I'm a two in follow-through, so I will find shortcuts. 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:42.800 I don't naturally refer back to a plan, let alone create one in a new situation. 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:51.279 But when I know, kind of using either my intelligence or my affect, like I care, that's the affective part. 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:57.759 If you know and you care that the plan is important, you can uh follow it. 00:07:57.759 --> 00:08:00.160 You can, you know, check back in with it. 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:04.879 I can acknowledge to my wife, if nothing else, oh wow, her name is Pam. 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:08.079 Like, Pam, I'm sorry, I know I messed up the plan. 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:13.199 Really, that wasn't on purpose, and I'll get back to it. 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.120 And we and I'm also smart enough. 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:20.959 Again, I'm smart enough and I care enough to understand which are the things that are really important to her. 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:26.319 So it it drains me of energy if I'm always planned and structured and systematic. 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:28.319 So she understands that. 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.680 So she doesn't overly plan me and our lives together. 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:38.320 But I also know, look, some of those things I really, because I care, I'm gonna buckle down and follow some of those things. 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:40.559 Not all of them, but I know the important ones. 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:44.559 And again, same thing at work when you know, hey, the plan's really important. 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:57.200 So, and one of the ways you can do that, so you know, getting back to your guys' dynamic, um, you know, if you know that it's the time that you really should follow that plan you created, you empower Josh. 00:08:57.200 --> 00:08:58.720 You say, Josh, you know what? 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:02.720 I know I'm not the one that's likely to check back in and follow that plan. 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:04.960 So it's you, man. 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:05.840 We're counting on you. 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.200 And when I push back and tell you forget about it, we should just throw it out. 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:12.000 I need you to push back on me sometimes. 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:16.000 Um, and I'll and and the commitment then is I'm gonna listen to you. 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:20.639 Even though it isn't natural for me, that's kind of like ringing the bell and bringing me back to reality. 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:22.320 Okay, yeah, I know I was doing that. 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:25.120 Maybe I need to step back and Josh needs to step forward. 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:31.759 So that's just one example of how knowing this, you can change the way you operate as a unit. 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:36.159 Well, I think like a Colby really hits on like by default what you do, right? 00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:39.440 Like it's just like it's just your your your native reaction. 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:47.600 And so I think what we do so often, you know, we're all part of these really robust teams and all these different environments and big projects. 00:09:47.600 --> 00:10:00.960 And I think knowing these elements of my Colby versus Eric's versus Josh versus Nick's, whoever, like it allows me to take my default, which is, you know, I like structure, but I also am not super rigid in it. 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:11.919 Um it allows me to take those

strengths, apply them to whatever we're doing, but then also know that like Eric is going to come in and be like, plan what you know, I don't know what you're talking about. 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:23.759 Um, but like I can I can use that because he's going to bring in elements of a response that I might not have thought of because we just think so differently, and our defaults are different when we're responding to an incident. 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:26.799 I do a lot of tabletop exercises, so that's just where my brain goes. 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:32.559 I was in one yesterday, and and his default in mind being so different and how we respond can be really helpful. 00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:33.679 Oh, absolutely. 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:41.919 We need what we've seen over and over again in doing research in businesses and universities is exactly what you said. 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:43.360 We need these differences. 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:53.360 All things being equal, the teams that have a blend of Colby results of cognitive strengths do better than teams where there's just they kind of clone each other. 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:59.039 So if you guys were all the same in any of the things that we measure, that actually becomes a problem. 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:08.399 And the interesting thing is teams usually don't feel that problem because it seems like, hey, we're all on the same page in terms of the way we operate. 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:10.559 So you develop these blind spots. 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:18.399 Like, here's one thing that happens a lot if you get a team of initiating fact finders, um, ask more questions, do more research. 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.399 Hey, what's wrong with getting more information so we can be better informed? 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:24.480 Well, here's the thing that's wrong. 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:28.879 You're well enough informed, and now you're not moving forward because you're doing these other things. 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:39.840 But the team that everybody is like that, it feels pretty good when it's happening, right up until they realize, oh, we're a week past our deadline and we still haven't gotten halfway done. 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:40.320 Right. 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:42.000 Like, then it's pretty painful. 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:44.960 That's where I think your quick start is really helpful, right? 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:49.840 Like having a quick start along at Backfinder is really helpful because Eric will be like, let's go. 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:50.480 Let's let's go. 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:52.799 And I'm like, let me get just a little bit more. 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:57.840 And the two of us together, like, he shortens my window, I lengthen his a little bit so we can meet in the middle. 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:02.240 And I think that's that's like the perfect, the perfect way to solution. 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:04.639 The quick quick start, that's the third one. 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:10.320 And and

that'll be interesting to hear about yours, David, because you have high fact finder and a higher quick start too. 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:12.960 So some of that might be in contention at some times. 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:13.840 Yeah, it is. 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:16.320 Sometimes I do feel like those compete a little bit. 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:21.759 So quick start is how we deal with uh risk, the unknowns experimenting. 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:25.600 So, Eric, on your team, you are the most kind of what Jen is describing. 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:29.759 You're the most out there in terms of, hey, let's just try it, let's move forward. 00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:32.159 I don't need to know what's gonna happen. 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:37.919 We can just take that risk, operate in an unknown environment, and and hey, we'll learn from it. 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:39.759 So it's different than the planning. 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:47.679 Like, and and look, you're not the planner follow-through either, but it's possible to be an initiating follow-through and an initiating quick start. 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:52.960 There, what you'd see is, oh, I'm gonna have a plan and a system for the experimentation I do. 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:57.360 Um, but then you know I get to the experiment and it truly is novel and we've never done it. 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:05.919 But with the quick start, the innovative quick start or the initiating quick start, it is really about pushing forward and just trying something out and then learning from it. 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:08.480 And if it doesn't go the right way, hey, that's all right. 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:13.679 The other end of the spectrum, and none of us here are all the way at the other end of the spectrum. 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:19.840 Um, Jen and Nick, you guys are fours, so you're toward that end, but still more in the middle. 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:24.879 But the other end is really somebody who stabilizes, they see what works and they stick with it. 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:32.480 They prevent chaos from even beginning because it's, you know, we don't need to experiment on that. 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:33.440 We've already done it. 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:34.399 We know what works. 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:37.679 So they might, you know, if they do it a little bit, they would more tweak it. 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:42.559 Hey, let's just let's do a little experimenting on maybe this one part. 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:48.639 And the three others, so Eric, not you, but the three others of you, that's probably a bit of the role you play. 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:55.360 So maybe sometimes reining in or channeling Eric's initiating quick start where necessary. 00:13:55.840 --> 00:14:05.360 Well, the thing I was talking to Nick about before uh we started this today is um some of these are are kind of it's like putting on a new sh new shirt or a new pair of socks. 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:12.080 It feels a little uncomfortable at first

because I don't always see myself the way that some of these assessments break things down for me. 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:15.600 And and I was sharing with Nick um this uh Jihari window. 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:16.639 Have you heard of that, David? 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:17.120 Yeah. 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:21.840 I'll just share it on the screen here really quick because I think it's a kind of cool concept that really fits in this Kobe index. 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:29.039 Is it's that you know, the areas that you know about yourself, others know your blind spots, hidden areas that no one knows, and then the unknown. 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:39.440 And um sometimes we really don't know these things about ourselves because we have this idea of ourselves that and we can't really always see what other people uh uh see in us. 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:42.799 So I think that was a big um eye-opener for me. 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:50.639 Yeah, and so what we hope Colby does is we we make more of you known to both yourself and to others. 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:57.759 And then with that information, it becomes easier to deal with those times where you are really different, but it's necessary and helpful. 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:08.240 Because that's part of the problem is when you, whether it's you not understanding yourself or the other person not understanding you, it you misidentify what the problem is. 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:15.600 So that's when I was talking about my wife, where she might think, because I'm different if I mess up her system, she might think, well, that's because David doesn't care. 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:17.600 Well, no, that's not the issue. 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:24.879 But if you start having, if you start trying to fix the problem like that you've misidentified, you're never gonna get to the bottom of it. 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:27.679 Same thing if, and we see this in business all the time. 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:30.639 People think, well, it's because they don't know what they need to know. 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:35.120 We they don't have kind of basically the cognitive skills where we haven't trained them or taught them. 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:42.639 Oh, I'll just train them on how important systems are, and then magically they will become an initiating follow-through. 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:44.080 Like, no, they won't. 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:44.559 No. 00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:52.799 Like you can show them how important the systems are and then tell them, I know this is not natural for you. 00:15:52.799 --> 00:16:03.360 So here are some tips and techniques for getting yourself to do it that way because it's important and spotting which are the important systems and you know which are maybe less important. 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:07.919 But yeah, by narrowing what is unknown, you get to better solutions. 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.039 And then the last number, David, the implementer. 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:11.840 You and I are both. 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:22.879 If I could go back and change the name, I would do it on this one because people hear implementer and they think it's more like the follow-through, like, oh, it's how you implement things as and carry them out. 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:32.159 But it's not, it's about the way we deal with the physical world, the tactile, tangible, three-dimensional realm of problem solving. 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:36.159 So initiating follow-throughs are literally hands-on. 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:38.480 They build and construct solutions. 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:42.480 So when they, as you were saying, Jen, it's kind of that default. 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:53.279 Their default is let me build it, let me show it to you physically, not just talk about it, not put it on a screen or write up a paper, but I'm gonna go fix it for you. 00:16:53.279 --> 00:17:05.759 The other end of the spectrum is somebody who their default is I'm gonna imagine, I will talk about it and think about it and show it to you, you know, on a screen or in writing rather than uh physically get it. 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:12.880 An example I can give you, I was working with a company and their CFO uh was an initiating implementer. 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:19.119 Now keep in mind, CFOs, most of the time, that's not a really physical job. 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:22.640 I mean, you're dealing with spreadsheets and numbers and data. 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:29.200 He was giving a presentation, and I thought this was such an interesting way to see his implementer come out. 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:41.920 He was talking about where this company, they were a large uh property development company, and he was talking about where they were gonna get their financing for this next multi, multi, multi-million dollar project. 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:50.720 His presentation, he literally built a 100-story tall building to show where each percent of financing was gonna come for that project. 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.480 Now, did he need to do that? 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:57.119 Well, the audience didn't need him to, but it was more engaging because it was different. 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.680 But he needs to physically build things. 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:07.920 Another client that I work with, an estate planning attorney, really good estate planning attorney, but again, not the kind of job where you usually get to use your hands. 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:12.319 And I just flat out asked him, how have you been doing this job for so long? 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:15.839 Because it's you don't get to use your implementer very much, do you? 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:18.240 And he said, No, no, no, I really don't. 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.240 I keep myself sane because I build furniture. 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:26.559 And if I could make more money building furniture, that's what I would do for a living. 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:31.119 But instead, he had been doing the lawyer thing long enough, he could

take enough time off. 00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:39.839 He had his free days and he turned so many of his free days into building furniture and going around the country to furniture shows and selling his furniture. 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:41.519 So, but it was important to him. 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:47.279 Like, and he flat out said if he didn't have that as an outlet, he would have burnt out and quit the law a long time ago. 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:52.880 We have one person on our team, his name is Cam, and I think he's a nine uh in implementer. 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:56.799 And so, whenever, and he's like one of our lead security engineers. 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.480 And so for him, he talks about you know solving problems. 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:05.839 Like he tests, you know, hypotheses and he will investigate until he can get to the bottom of it. 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:10.079 And so, wow, even though that's digital, for him, like that is just what he does. 00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:14.960 And so he's oftentimes our like handy cam is in my head what I call him. 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:19.039 And so when he's trying to put something together, I'll say, Oh, Cam, you're yellow is really showing. 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:22.079 The first time I said that, he was like, I don't what wait, what? 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:22.960 What is showing? 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:26.960 And I was like, No, no, no, you're yellow, like your your implementer is showing right now. 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.960 And so it's fun to be able to kind of know those things about your peers. 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:32.319 And they do look a little different. 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:44.240 Like he's not like a builder per se, but like he's building in these virtual spaces to solve problems and tinker away and and and just how in our field that looks a little different, but he gets to do that all the time. 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.559 That's his favorite work to do is solve a problem. 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:48.960 And he's also the one that likes to hang the whiteboards around. 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:50.400 He loves to hang the whiteboard. 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.880 So if you need someone to hang your whiteboard, you call Cam. 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:54.240 He'll come running with his drill. 00:19:54.559 --> 00:20:05.200 I mean, I was gonna say we often see people like that in the office environment where they don't need to hang the whiteboards or clear the paper jam in the copier or what, but they're the ones who do it. 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:10.400 And sometimes you think, wow, we pay you way too much to be doing that, but they need that as an outlet. 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:16.799 My guess is he also, when he goes home, he's got he is serious about some kind of physical hobby. 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:22.079 He doesn't just do it to turn his brain off, like he's serious about whatever it might be building stuff. 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:23.759 Does Mario Kart count? 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:35.759 I would also think in terms of security, when he can, he also uh gets connected to the physical part of data security. 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:40.400 Like what is the physical security around your co-location facility? 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:41.519 He'd want to inspect it. 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:51.119 He'd want to go to the colo facility, he'd want to see the racks, the way they're built, the wiring of the servers would be important to him. 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:56.319 He'd need to see the connections and make sure they're secure so that they're not just gonna get bumped and pop out. 00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:56.880 Yep. 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:59.279 Which, like, is really basic. 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:02.240 It's kind of obvious, but most people would just put it on a checklist. 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.079 He'd really want to go touch it. 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:04.400 Sure. 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.640 Didn't you just more we did just do that? 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:11.519 So we did a network refresh and it was like over a weekend, over midnight, two in the morning. 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:17.599 And you know, he would just like stand back in the closet and look at his cabling and be like, mm-hmm, that looks good. 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:22.480 Um, and and it's just it's so fun because for me, I'm like, I want to write up all the communication. 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:26.160 I want to make sure people feel seen and heard and that they know what what's happening. 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:28.000 And he's like, look at my cabling. 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:29.279 It's beautiful. 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:30.880 And it is a thing of beauty. 00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:32.160 Yeah, it is. 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:34.240 He hasn't touched my cables in here yet. 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:36.240 Don't tempt him with a good time. 00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:38.960 He hasn't done any cable management in the studio. 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:50.720 And David, there's a there's a Colby process, and we should tell people how to maybe access Colby if they're interested for their teams or even individually, families, what have you, that how they could they go through the process. 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:59.680 But there's also different Colbys, like there's the A to A, there's the A to C, where um people could use it when they're bringing new team members on board, right? 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.240 Yeah, so we're so number one, we're really mission driven. 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:09.440 Our our mission is to help people understand themselves so they can achieve the things they care about. 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:14.480 And the first step of that is just that understanding, getting your Colby a result. 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:19.119 But if it just stops there, honestly, we feel like we haven't achieved our mission. 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:19.920 We we've helped. 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:24.720 And look, if I could help everybody in the world in just that way, yeah, that would be

a huge win. 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.640 But it's going to that next level. 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.160 So you mentioned the A-to-A. 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:31.839 That's a it's a report, and that's too dry a way to put it. 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:42.720 It's it's information that helps you understand how two of you work together and operate and gives tips for how you can avoid problems and do better. 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:51.440 So when we talked about when you're really different, how important that is because you complement each other, it does come with the downside of yeah, but that can turn into conflict. 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:53.039 So here's how you avoid that. 00:22:53.039 --> 00:23:05.599 So that A-A report looks at that information and gives really easy to understand, easy to put into practice uh solutions, really advice and solutions for how to how to handle that. 00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:12.079 As I mentioned, there's nothing, there's no Colby result that is better or worse in general than any other Colby result. 00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:13.519 It's just who you are. 00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:16.559 But they do fit better in certain positions. 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:25.119 So the right fit process and then the results that you get from it tell you, hey, who's likely to be a better hire for a particular role? 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:31.359 So it analyzes what's the role you're filling and who are the people you're considering putting in that role. 00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:48.960 And if it's, you know, like me in that nuclear safety engineer role, it's going to say, you know what, David with his two in follow-through, not a great fit for a role that really looks more like a 7, 8, 9 and follow-through, where it's all about systems and structure and not taking shortcuts. 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:56.160 So it'll tell you that ahead of time so that you can weed out the candidates who are least likely to be successful in a role. 00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:07.440 It doesn't tell you, oh, this person is for sure going to be successful because let's say with that engineering role, if I'm a really lousy engineer, you also don't want me in that role, but it's not because of my Colby result. 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:12.559 I could look perfect from a Colby result standpoint, but you still need to know that other stuff. 00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:20.720 Um, and then I think the last big set of applications that we have are all kinds of team analysis and reports. 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:36.880 So we have a suite of software called Team Tactics, and subscribers who use that take groups like you, and it can be, you know, it's really meant for teams that work interactively together, not just teams that report to each other but don't actually work to solve problems. 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.680 But it looks at those teams and says, okay, here's how you guys fit together. 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:47.200 Uh, here's maybe what you, if you're going to add new people, here's maybe what you should look to add. 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:51.359 And then also talks just like that A to A, where it's a one-to-one relationship. 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:58.559 It looks at the entire team and says, here are the potential pitfalls for you guys, and here's how to avoid them or work around them. 00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:05.839 Yeah, I know it's really helped uh Josh and I specifically because we're both seven fact finders and we work together a lot. 00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:13.039 And I think before we did this, there might have been times where we might slow each other down a little bit because we, hey, we're trying to look into this too much. 00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:19.279 We're taking too much time to look into this, but now we can actually pull back and we'll stop ourselves from that activity, right? 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:24.799 And speed ourselves up because we're no the two of us paired together might have slowed each other down, which is not a problem anymore. 00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:27.119 So really move that blocker for us. 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:28.079 Well, I love that. 00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:29.119 That's great to hear. 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:32.480 See, you're helping me achieve my mission by doing stuff like that. 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:33.920 Yeah, it's been great. 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:36.880 Um, and Nick, you were about to ask, how do people hear about it? 00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:42.160 I mean, the most straightforward way is uh Colby.com, K-O-L-B-E.com. 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:46.079 You can go there and get all of our contact information, drop us a note. 00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:48.480 You know, there's their forms if you have requests. 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:53.200 Um, my email is dkolby at colby.com, so you can get in touch with me. 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.079 Um, all kinds of information on the website, though. 00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:57.599 That's probably the best place to start. 00:25:57.839 --> 00:25:59.519 And where are you guys going next, David? 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:01.279 What's the future looking like? 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:05.519 Well, like lots of people these days, we gotta be dealing with AI. 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:14.240 So for us on many different levels, like everybody else, what are the ways we're gonna use it to become more efficient to improve our internal systems? 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:27.839 Uh, but I think more importantly, for what we've been talking about is we're developing AI interfaces and solutions so that people can use that uh in a more dynamic and fluid way rather than what have been more static. 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:38.000 I mean, they've been great reports and insight and value that we deliver that way, but they are admittedly more static, where it's, hey, we think we know the questions that are asked most often. 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.480 Here's what we can tell you about those things. 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:51.440 Well, AI is going to help us give our clients ways to interact

with the knowledge and the information that's embedded in all those Colby results and all the research that we've already done. 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:57.680 Um, but let them ask questions in the way that they want to ask them and get those results. 00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:00.079 All kinds of challenges with that. 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:05.039 Um, you know, all of the data security and privacy stuff around AI. 00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:07.200 So glad you're planning for that up front. 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:11.200 Like if that's just the thing that goes through mind, I'm like, oh my gosh, please say you love security. 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:12.960 Uh so yay, go you. 00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:14.960 You're one of the people always love it. 00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:21.839 I just have to admit, because the some of it's the initiating quick start and me is like, oh, but I have all these ideas and let's just do it. 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:30.000 And frankly, a lot of our smaller business clients, we have tons of like think of a strategic coach uh universe kinds of clients. 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.480 So many of those people are also coming up with, oh, I just wanted to do this. 00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:34.640 Yeah. 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.359 And they don't think about security first. 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:44.000 And sometimes not in a bad way, but just in a, hey, they they don't need to be super private with their information. 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:57.759 But we also have financial service industry, like huge international financial service industry, or healthcare industry, or defense industry clients, where you can't let an AI system touch their data without permission. 00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:00.240 And they're, and by the way, they're not going to give permission. 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:01.200 No, they're not. 00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:18.559 So, yeah, we that's one of the challenges of developing these new systems is we need to make them open and flexible and interactive and yet very tight, you know, and give users options for do you even want to let this anywhere near your data that we're housing for you? 00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:20.400 So it makes it a fun challenge. 00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:25.200 And yeah, that's said a little bit euphemistically, but it is honestly is an intellectual project. 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:26.319 It does make it fun. 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:36.000 More people could benefit from hearing exactly what you said so succinctly, not being a cyber, you know, like we're cybersecurity junkies, like we live in this space. 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:49.279 But hearing you say that, like I might just take that and repeat it and repeat it and repeat it over and over again because like you said stated it so succinctly, and it's so critical to the success of implementing anything new, right? 00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:51.200 Thinking about that security first mindset. 00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:53.359 So, oh my gosh, you just made me so happy. 00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:54.400 Oh, good. 00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:11.599 It's interesting too to with AI, you can take, you know, say I was gonna write you an email, David, and and I know your Colby score, you're 8273, I could say craft an email to somebody that is an 8273 in a way that might resonate with them. 00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:29.839 So around that data privacy, if that were exposed and that data were were were leaked into the public domain of what people's scores were, that could be used against people in a way that would potentially influence them in buying decisions or what have you. 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:36.160 Yeah, and that's one of the areas where with data security and and really it's it's more privacy. 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.799 You know, those things are very, very closely connected. 00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:42.400 But um yeah, not everybody wants to share their Colby result. 00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:45.119 I'm perfectly happy for the world to know my result. 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:49.200 And my initial mindset is always, oh, why wouldn't everybody want this out there? 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:50.400 But not everybody does. 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:50.799 Sure. 00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:57.279 Um so we need to give our users the ability to toggle that on and off and you know, protect it where they want to protect it. 00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:14.880 But um, but that's also the kind of thing that we're working on developing internally to have expert agents that are built that our users can subscribe to that'll help with things like, hey, if this is the somebody in my company, so with permission, you know, we know all these results. 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:16.799 Will you help me draft that email? 00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:27.440 Or I'm going into a meeting with them, give me some quick reminders about the best way to communicate with Eric in that meeting about, you know, maybe it's a difficult situation, maybe it is trying to sell you on something. 00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:32.240 Hey, I want to get him on board with my idea, some our next big project. 00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:37.200 Um, what are some quick reminders that I should think of with Eric? 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:42.160 Um yeah, and we haven't had those things built in that way before. 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:49.680 We've some of it is there, and that's where we're using AI to capture the intelligence that we've already built. 00:30:49.680 --> 00:31:02.559 But as you guys also know, with AI, part of the challenge is, and this is from a business model standpoint, what level of accuracy, for lack of a better word, are are we gonna be okay with? 00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:06.559 Before it was like, man, it had to be 99 point whatever. 00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:09.200 We wanted to minimize any chance. 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:12.720 Well, now AI does still hallucinate some. 00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:18.640 And even when it doesn't hallucinate, it misses some of the really fine nuances, and we're working to make it get

better. 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:29.680 But I think the best way to describe it is the difference between conitive strengths, the way we take action, and affective strengths, our preferences and values. 00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:33.839 It doesn't always use language that separates those two out enough. 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:41.839 So we have to decide okay, is 96% you know, score, is that good enough for us to release to the world? 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:54.960 And I think the answer to that from a business model standpoint is, and some of this is very personal to me, I have to be okay with releasing products that are at a slightly lower standard with full disclosure to our clients. 00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:56.000 Hey, here's the deal. 00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:03.839 We think this is a really good, strong product, but here are the caveats, and you really should involve humans in these different steps. 00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:08.240 And if it doesn't sound right, maybe push back or contact us. 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:10.880 So we're in the midst of working all that out. 00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:13.599 And you guys are sitting on a lot of data, right? 00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:22.880 Which is really, I would have trouble like not playing with the data and looking for themes of like, oh, okay, you know, cat owners like Nick, right? 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:26.160 Oh, cat owners, you know, and and how do you group this together? 00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:32.559 I I know just walking around coach, people have their four numbers, and the numbers seem to be similar. 00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:45.119 So it's like, okay, entrepreneurs seem to have these similar type of numbers, and not everybody, but I bet you could just see some awesome themes in the thousands of scores that you've done over time. 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:46.000 Yeah. 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:47.680 You're absolutely right. 00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:48.480 There are themes. 00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:49.519 I love the way you put it. 00:32:49.519 --> 00:33:07.440 It's not that every entrepreneur is going to look the same way, and I'll talk about the differences, but I think using that as a starting point, what we do see is people who really are entrepreneurs in the most classic sense, where they start something kind of from scratch, tend to lean more toward the initiating quick start. 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:13.440 Um, they might back that up with kind of mid-range or, you know, maybe initiating fact finder. 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:20.079 But so using me as an example, I lead with my fact finder, with my data gathering, you know, become an expert. 00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:24.720 Let's look back at history, let's look at the data and spreadsheets. 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:29.359 That's not the classic typical fact finder or quick entrepreneur. 00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:37.440 The entrepreneur is more that quick start side of me that's like, hey, I have an idea, let's try it out, let's go for it, let's experiment. 00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:40.240 Um, so that's yeah, that's the trend. 00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:50.880 But let me give you an example of one, and we don't have tons of data on this, but some of the data that we do have points toward it franchise operators. 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:58.160 So they're entrepreneurs, like they're starting a store from the ground up, but they plug into an existing system and structure. 00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:06.720 So we see those entrepreneurs as being a little more initiating follow-through because it's not yet, it's like, hey, I want to start a business. 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:14.800 I'm taking the financial risk, I'm sinking a lot of money into it, but they they plug into that system that's already there. 00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:16.559 And they maybe also do a lot of research. 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:21.519 Hey, which franchise is the best one offers the best financial opportunity. 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:26.159 Have you thought about writing a book with with some of these things? 00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:32.719 Because uh you grew up in this, you left, you've got some great outside experience, and then you came back to run it. 00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:37.840 So I'm sure you've got a lot of great insights from a business perspective that could really help people. 00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:38.320 Yeah. 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:43.920 So I I co-wrote with Amy Brewski, the president of the company, uh Do More More Naturally. 00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:46.800 So that's really all about how to take this stuff and use it. 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:53.360 It focuses on business uh applications, talks a little bit about personal stuff, but really focuses on business. 00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:56.880 And it's really about kind of how you use it yourself. 00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:06.159 So the do more more naturally concept is when you work with your strengths rather than against them, you can accomplish more and use less energy to get there. 00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:11.599 If it's if it takes less time and less energy, then you've got that time and energy left over for something else. 00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:15.199 So if you, you know, if it's business stuff, great, that project's done. 00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:16.639 Now I can move on to the next thing. 00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:18.000 But it also might be personal. 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:18.400 Great. 00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:27.599 The end of the day at work has come, and now I have energy to do the things that I love to do personally, spending time with my wife, doing my hobbies, whatever that might be. 00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.320 Um so yeah, that's that's that book. 00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:31.440 Thank you for asking about it. 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:32.880 We're big book lovers around. 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:33.199 We are. 00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:34.880 I think we all just like Google this. 00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:37.679 We have another reading list uh edition. 00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:41.840 And something that you hit on that

I really appreciate. 00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:46.079 Um, so Eric will always ask the question, like, but does this work fill your cup? 00:35:46.079 --> 00:36:01.360 And so I think something that happens at IT Audit Labs a lot that I really appreciate is we try to align the work with those passion areas so that then the things that we love to do naturally, whether it's in our jobs or outside of our jobs, like I just like helping people. 00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:02.079 Like that's my thing. 00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:07.199 I love helping because I just I was a teacher in my past life, so I don't know how to be any other way. 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:14.000 And so, like, as a leader, he understands that and wants to align our skills and our passions with the work that we get to do. 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:19.920 And so I think what you were talking about, and I'm excited to read the book, I think really hits hard on that. 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:40.719 And so I think as we think about these entrepreneurs or as leaders of teams, um, a question I would have is like what are some of those things that our leaders need to look for or encourage within those teams to to really like lead well and let people really shine within their unique abilities or their talents? 00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:42.880 Like I don't know if that makes sense. 00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:44.960 Oh, it absolutely makes sense. 00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:50.079 So one, I mean, I I would it's a little self-serving, but it's obvious and true. 00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:58.719 I hope everybody gets Kobe results for those people because it is easier to understand great, what's the way Jen operates naturally? 00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:00.559 It's just the first step, though. 00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:04.239 Then a leader needs to understand, okay, great, now I know this information. 00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:07.360 How do I make that happen in a productive way? 00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:20.159 So when you think about work and teams and projects that need to get done, it's great to say, and we talk about this in the book, it's great to say, hey, set Jen loose so that she can do everything the way that's most natural for her. 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.239 And most of the time that's great. 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:26.400 But the reality of the world is that there are times when that's not going to work. 00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.239 You need to work against your grain. 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:44.320 So the leader has to figure out how I can blend those two and how can I move things more toward giving each person on the team than in the company the ability to operate in a way that works for them while also understanding they're operating in the system with things that need to get done. 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.679 So I always tell leaders, don't compromise on your expectations. 00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:49.840 This is not, and people mishear this sometimes. 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:52.880 They're like, oh, you're just talking about finding the easiest path. 00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:54.719 And I believe in hard work. 00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:58.880 And no, it's not about being easy, it's about setting people up for success. 00:37:58.880 --> 00:37:59.440 Yeah. 00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:01.440 Set a high goal. 00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:03.519 Like, we want to change the world. 00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:04.079 Great. 00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:10.960 If you want to change the world, you better make it as easy as possible to achieve that because that's the big goal. 00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:17.360 So, and that's where you learn the grit and determination and the value of hard work and all that stuff. 00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:21.840 It's not, oh, let's set this big goal and now make it virtually impossible to achieve. 00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:23.440 That just burns people out. 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:26.400 It pisses people off, and they know when it's happening. 00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:30.000 And usually we don't do it on purpose, but it just happens. 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:37.360 And then if you have this leader mindset of, oh, you're just afraid of challenges, like, no leader, it's not that I'm afraid of challenges. 00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:42.880 It's you're not doing a very good job of making it so that I can achieve what you're pointing us all toward. 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:51.840 So, but I did say it's a balance because the real world is we all have to just suck it up sometimes and do things that don't fit us. 00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:56.480 But if that's what we're doing all the time, it's not a good, not a good setup. 00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:59.679 I I I I like kind of what uh Dr. 00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:08.880 Ben Hardy said in the science of scaling, where one thing that you can do is you can set these really big goals and then you can reduce the timeline to get there. 00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:12.719 And the only way that you're going to achieve that goal is you have to think differently. 00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:18.079 And it's kind of going back to to Dan's and and and uh the book he wrote with uh Dr. 00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:26.559 Ben Hardy of 10x is easier than 2x, where you you can get to 2x by just working harder, but you can't get to 10x by working harder. 00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:29.760 You have to just change the way that you're thinking and you're approaching things. 00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:40.239 So kind of combining both of the the what what effectively works for people and how they work in their comfort zone, but how they work in a team in order to achieve those goals. 00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:42.239 I I think you can do some great things. 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:46.559 And I think that's why hiring is so important, particularly as a leader. 00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:51.679 Like a lot of leaders you see, they hire themselves over and over and over again, right? 00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:53.119 Their team is very homogenous. 00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:59.440 It looks like them as the leader and they don't

recognize that they are hiring themselves over and over again. 00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:04.400 And I think those really strong teams, they hire people who are unlike themselves, right? 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:05.840 Like it's a really diverse team. 00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:08.159 Like if you look at our team, we are very diverse. 00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:15.920 We have very different interests and and our defaults are very different, but it's what makes us like push. 00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:19.280 And so it's it's just it's really interesting to watch. 00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:22.880 We even allowed a couple of two quick starts on the team here, Jen. 00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:24.719 It hurts. 00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:29.119 It hurts my my like my sevens and and no comment. 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.840 No comment from the marketing department. 00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:40.320 I was thinking about American football and how they take the wonder lick test before the draft or the combine, which is a similar subset. 00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:45.599 But then, David, I found that your grandfather started the wonder lick. 00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:49.440 And I thought that was really cool, the connection there that it's falling down. 00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:56.559 I had no idea until I was researching this that um Kathy's father, your mother, was the uh, you know, started the Wonder Lick test. 00:40:56.719 --> 00:41:01.280 Yeah, and and that's part of why she got into what she got into. 00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:21.360 She would describe how she would talk to her dad about, well, hey, dad, you know, this is great, but we all know really smart, motivated people who don't fit in a job or they were doing great and then they get promoted and now they're not so great, even though they're still super smart and they're passionate and you know committed and all that stuff. 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:23.119 And she would say, Well, what else is it? 00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:25.760 And he'd say, Look, honey, I I do my thing. 00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:28.320 Like, if you want to figure that out, go figure that out. 00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:41.519 So yeah, the Wonder Lick is a really good instrument for um identifying people's, and I think it's ironic that it's best known for being used by the NFL because I think it's really best suited for a more office kind of environment. 00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:48.480 I'm not sure how great it is at figuring out who's gonna be a better you know linebacker. 00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:51.519 Um, but yeah, it's they used it for years. 00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:55.360 They still do, although they don't require it of draftees anymore. 00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:55.920 Sure. 00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:58.000 I would be a great linebacker, Eric. 00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:58.559 Don't you think? 00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:01.199 I mean, I could take someone out of the way. 00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:02.079 Small but mighty. 00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:02.639 Oh, okay. 00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:06.320 Eric, you

want to close us up today? 00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:07.519 Let's close it up. 00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:07.840 Sure. 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:09.760 David, awesome having you on. 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:14.480 And it's really been great, like living with Colby for the last three years or so. 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:20.559 And we just enjoyed using uh the our Colby scores, talking about them and integrating them into our team. 00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:26.000 So really appreciate you coming on and and and thanks for explaining it in detail. 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:28.000 And Josh, what do we do after this? 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:31.119 We we kind of clean this up, we put it back out in a couple of weeks. 00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:32.320 So this is gonna be live. 00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:35.360 We also are gonna have the audio and video version out in a couple of weeks. 00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:40.320 We'll definitely let you know, David, and uh feel free to share it with your colleagues, your friends, and your peers. 00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:41.920 Also, some shorts on YouTube. 00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:48.639 You can find it at us wherever you uh stream your podcasts, YouTube, uh Spotify, and Apple's gonna be hosting videos shortly. 00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:51.519 So don't forget about Zip Cyber. 00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:54.079 It's the fun. 00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:56.239 It's the fun part of IT Audit Labs. 00:42:56.320 --> 00:42:56.639 Yeah. 00:42:56.639 --> 00:42:59.199 So once again, David, stay in touch. 00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:02.000 Um, get David's book and uh read that. 00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:02.960 Yeah, it's on our reading. 00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:03.840 Take your Colby. 00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:05.199 Take your Colby. 00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:06.320 Thanks. 00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:07.199 It's been great. 00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:12.159 I really appreciate you guys taking the time to use Colby internally and have me on. 00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:12.480 Yeah. 00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:13.360 Thank you. 00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:14.559 Thanks, David. 00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:17.280 You've been listening to the audit presented by IT Audit Labs. 00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:19.280 I'm your co host and producer, Joshua Schmidt. 00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:21.840 Today we've been joined by David Kobe of Kobe Corp. 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:26.320 We have Nick Mellum and Eric Brown and uh Jen Lotzi here in the studio today. 00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:27.119 Thanks for listening. 00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:29.760 Please like, share, and subscribe, and we'll see you in the next one. 00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:33.920 You have been listening to the audit presented by IT Audit Labs. 00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:42.639 We are experts at assessing risk and compliance while providing administrative and technical controls to improve our clients' data security. 00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:55.360 Our threat assessments find the soft spots before the bad guys do, identifying likelihood and impact, or all our security control assessments rank the level of maturity relative to the size of your organization. 00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:59.760 Thanks to our devoted listeners and followers, as well as our producer, Joshua J. 00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:03.920 Schmidt, and our audio video editor, Cameron Hill. 00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:17.199 You can stay up to date on the latest cybersecurity topics by giving us a like and a follow on our socials, and subscribing to this podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you source your security content.