النص الكامل لحلقة Benjamin ("Benny") Disraeli -Friendship, War and Money

she's a figurehead, she had a lot of influence and she loved the colonies. She didn't see them as politically problematic, but he did before his time and he wants that known. Okay. he wants everybody to know that it was a bit of a front because it was expected, kind of like we may have controversial feelings underneath that would be controversial for the time. and we put on that facade, but inside we feel very, very differently. he felt the persecution because okay, his people are persecuted. And he felt the persecution. Keenly for other people and people in the colonies. And he very much had a lot of opinions on people's land, should be their land. But he couldn't change it. It was just too kind of ingrained. Rural Britannia, he said. The Navy. He keeps on talking about the navy and having to have a war chest and it was all about the navy. I don't want to take a stab at it because he's showing me the soldiers and he's showing me them in red. But this feels a bit bore war, but I don't know whether I'm right about that. I'm not absolutely certain. And but I'm also feeling Like he's talking about Sebastopol, which is not the same thing. He's telling me I know. I don't want bring my own stuff into it. He's t he's telling me I know. He's talking about why my family fled. and this is family I never knew, but ⁓ just through history I knew about that. He's a man who had lots of secrets. He had lots of, ⁓ I wanna say, we'd call him today, ⁓ progressive. That's what we'd call him today. But he towed the line about. He's told sorry, he's making me laugh, and it's it's a very serious sub subject. He's talking about Nye Ven, and he's talking about it wasn't his idea first for a a national health programme. He would have loved to implement that. Phil's laughing, so ⁓ I'm hoping that's a good laugh. ⁓ but the political wins were just not. right at the time. ⁓ god, I shivers, so I'm no one right about that. The political winds weren't blowing that way at the time, but he did try and implement something. And he wants to be recognized for that. And he's absolutely bleeding Nybevan. That's what he's calling him. taking all the credit. ⁓ and he's making me feel like Nybevan ⁓ didn't have it wasn't an it wasn't a It wasn't a unique idea to him. It wasn't an original idea. Nybevin was very well educated and knew about his plans and what he wanted to do and didn't just model it from plans in the local communities and in the valleys and in Neath, where it kind of all started. he had a lot of information on the Back of him, even though they didn't know each other. I feel they didn't know each other. I know by Nybevin was later, but it's not impossible that they knew each other. But he's making me feel like they didn't have a relationship in that way. But he's he's not angry, it's more damn it, you know. ⁓ I didn't go down in history as having that, but I was very progressive. He keeps talking about the slave trade. I know there was no slave trade when he was in power, but he keeps talking about reparations and how he wanted to do that. And he didn't get as much done as he was. But money was hugely important to him. he keeps on repeating, I can hear it in the background, and I know it's a later song, but I won't burn everybody's ears by singing it. But money makes the world go round. That three keeps on repeating it did then and it does now. And without money we can't do anything. And so He likes to call himself a progressive conservative because when I first brought brought him in full disclosure, I couldn't decide whether he was liberal or conservative. I knew he wasn't Labour and I couldn't decide because he was coming in as this liberal kind of almost to the left energy, but they kept on telling me conservative, he didn't feel like that. And I wanna put that out there because that is how I feel about him. So he's making me laugh. ⁓ He doesn't like war, nobody likes war, but war is sometimes necessary. War is necessary for our freedoms and okay. This country needs to invest. And will invest 'cause it has to. But he's talking about it being amphibious. It's gonna be fought on the seas. He's showing me war rooms. I've never been to the Churchill war rooms in London, but he's showing me that and I am very aware he's before Churchill, obviously. ⁓ but he's showing me these war rooms and he's showing me meetings, and there are meetings taking place. Good job, we don't have a lot of people listening to this podcast, Be shut down by the government. Sorry, it's not a funny subject. I don't know why I'm laughing, but he's showing me this and he's showing me and this is gonna spin everybody out. ⁓ but he's showing me cross party, and this is not future, this is now. And I'll tell you who he's showing me in this room. He's showing me ⁓ Andy Burnham. David Cameron. Trying to recognise some of these faces. Andy Burnham, David Cameron, George Osbun, bizarre. This is gonna blow Phil's mind. Neil Cinock. Yeah, I knew we'd do a Twitch then. You can't see Phil's face, but you went Shall I tell them you're not a fan of Neil Cinock? I've said no. ⁓ okay. Seriously, sir. ⁓ Yvette Cooper. Not everybody in this cabinet is involved in this. It's a select few. And he's talking about Privy Council. ⁓ so he's talking about past, and I I a lot of people listening to this won't know these names. And he's not going any further, but there are at least twelve people around this table. But the room is three deep in previous politicians, including past Prime Ministers, Churchill. him sorry he's making me laugh now. He's quite a funny guy. He's got humour. but he's talking about not Bevan. He's ⁓ he's a little bit sore about him. he's making me laugh with it. Okay, talking about some of the press as well. That's interesting. That makes sense to people. Phil's nodding. 'Cause I'm thinking if it's top secret and we don't know about it, why has he got the press in there? Needs the press on side. And he's talking about the influence that past

politicians are having on the current state of play. And which I know as a medium, he's talking about, you know, people think that the it's their own original ideas, it's not. You know, we come back, we incarnate, we come back as spirit, we use our experience and our knowledge and the way things need to go to influence current politicians. But this is important. It's all to do with the Privy Council. It is meeting in war rooms and it is planning for war. I have said this before, but he is telling me it's not nuclear. It's gonna be fought at sea. Talking about the Union Jack. I don't know how he felt about Wales because it's like he's flaunting the Union Jack to me. because famously in Wales, but Wales isn't part of the Union Jack. Am I right in that? Yeah. So he's kind of flaunting it. But he's got humour, you know, but it's almost like we'd call it banter now. So he's gone the flag, you're not in on that. ⁓ There's not a love of Wales and a love of the Welsh and it's not just about Nybevan riots. Is that ooh? They call the Welsh the valleys. He's showing me the valleys, copper mining, and the disgruntlement amongst the workers. Always something to do. ⁓ always peace being brokered. And he's talking about sending in the military on occasion. And see what I have about this, I have Welsh history on this, but I have no clue who the Prime Minister was at the time. So I don't know whether I don't know how this is going or where this is going. I have no d idea. Okay. But he's definitely waving the union jack at me because for those people not in Wales listening to this. as proud Welsh people. ⁓ it hasn't been lost on us that our f you know, the Union Jack is meant to be a mix of all the nations and it's not lost on us that it's apart from Wales. and it's you know, there's a difficult history with England. But he's showing his irritation with Wales as a nation. He's talking about the insistence of the Welsh people speaking Welsh. when he's trying to create a cohesive United Kingdom. He's just making me feel trouble fighting. Striking. dissatisfaction with working conditions, pay, picking people off, who were troublemakers. That's how he's making me feel. This was serious business. ⁓ Wales was serious business for the world because of the coal, because of the slate, because of the copper, and it was the engine room. This is how he's describing it, and the engine room had to run smoothly. Money again. Money, it was all about money. He liked to drink, showing me a glass of whiskey, and he liked to dance and he liked to sing. He was fun. He was a fun guy. ⁓ now whether that will be borne out in history books, I don't know, but that's what he's talking about. ⁓ and he's very much a fatherly, grandfatherly figure, that's what he's showing me. And that's how he wants to be perceived as looking after people across the Commonwealth. People need a wake up call. As to what's come in. People need to get behind their country. Too much nonsense. He's talking about f

false patriots. He's not I he's not making me feel like this is a mass join up to the military, what's come in. Cause he's saying it's gonna be played out a lot more expertly than that. But he is talking about ⁓ he's showing me you know, those R images of women rolling up their sleeves and, you know, fixing planes and and boats and stuff like that. He's gonna the war effort. Okay. I was trying to get him together, words are there's gonna need to be a concerted war effort and people are going to need to sacrifice things. Things are not gonna be like they have been for the last since World War Two, really, since the boom after World War Two, country first, supporting the country, working hard for the country. Keeping those well oiled machines going. This is not a party political political broadcast I'm saying, but he's saying we need to support the government. Whatever government it is, government needs to be supported in this because freedom is important. And he's talking about a repeat A repeat with Russia history repeating. And it may not look exactly the same, but it is the same. And that's why he's in the room. Not every Pri ex Prime Minister that's died is in the room, but he is, amongst others. He's talking about Ackley, given a chance. I don't know what he means by that. Given a chance to Ooh, I've got shivers, so I know I'm right. Prove himself. I don't know much about Ackley. Talking about cats as well. Making me feel like he had cats and he liked cats. He's flitting back and forth. Nobody can do anything to change this. It was always on the cards. It was destiny. These things repeat about every hundred years or so, these things repeat. ⁓ history repeats. History is repeating because there's dissatisfaction in Eastern Europe and things need to change, and boundaries need to change, and countries need to change, just like they changed after World War Two, just like they changed after he's talking about Sebastopol, and I don't even know whether that's actor. Boundaries change. He's talking about Ukraine ⁓ changing and being Russia, things are changing back, things need to change. Every time this happens, the world order needs to change and countries need to change. And he's talking about boundaries. He's ⁓ he's talking about borders. He's not talking about culturally. So expect the map to be re we ooh. Sorry. Expect the map to be redrawn. The map will be redrawn. Specifically Eastern Europe. He's laughing and he's saying, I'm sober as a judge. So I don't know whether he had a problem with alcohol, ⁓ alcohol, sorry. But he's talking about himself being sober as a judge. Now. It's very much now. Every now and then Russia needs to be put back in its place and the time has come again. And the time will come, but the state of things at the moment, he's very, very disappointed in his country and the state of things, and the state of things across the Middle East, and the state of things in the UK, and the idea that people wouldn't fight for their

country. They don't need to fight. And he's really getting hot and bothered now. They don't need to fight, most of them don't need to fight, but they do need to support. Support their country, support their government. I'm not being party political because the current government and not his government, but he's talking about the need to support and he's showing me again the cross party, both current and previous, that are in this war room, the best of the minds, the most experienced, the people that know. But mark my words, these current politicians, military best minds in the country, not having original thoughts. Okay, I'm done. Got so much to say. ⁓ I know that getting Benjamin Disraeli was probably really daunting to you, because like you said at the beginning, you knew nothing about him. But so I've I've got like I've got points that were just spot on and make sense. So shall I just go through them? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So his relationship with Victoria, they had a great, great friendship. ⁓ he used to call her his fairy queen. ⁓ And when so when King Albert was alive, ⁓ he apparently didn't really trust him. But when after he passed away, Disraeli became a real great friend to Victoria. And you kept on repeating that he liked to ⁓ have fun and sing and dance, and they used to do that together. They used to, it's documented that they used to like party together and he really made her laugh and she really made him laugh and they really leant upon each other throughout their whole lives. ⁓ so that was spot on. ⁓ brilliant. I like that because I'm just seeing the whiskey. They're showing me the whiskey again, which would make sense with Scotland, because I really do feel that he was in barrel. Yeah. ⁓ he did suffer with depression. He had two documented bouts of serious depression. one very early in his career and then one as an older man as well. ⁓ that's what we know about that's been put in the history book. He's just can I just say he's just telling me and the rest. Yeah, yeah. Quite. I mean, if that's what's written about, of course there was gonna be more. ⁓ he actually all the s all the talk about ⁓ the colonies and slavery I found really interesting because It's documented that he changed his opinion. So early in his career he was really opposed against the colonies and he thought it was wrong and almost detrimental to England. And I say England because he didn't regard the UK. He obviously knew the UK, but he was England. So I'll go on to the things about the Welsh next. ⁓ but then later in his career he called the colonies the jewels of the empire. So he kind of flip flopped, ⁓ On paper, but that with what you said makes sense as well. That he felt like he needed to say that. ⁓ He was very progressive and he actually had the first public health act in eighteen seventy five. ⁓ Okay, kind. I know, goosebumps, clean water. ⁓ he did a a public housing act as well to give to get rid of slums, people have proper health housing. It was something he really pushed for in his career, but I'm not sure he ever really managed to do what he wanted to do. So once again he was spot on with that. ⁓ he was a massive romantic, very pragmatic romantic about England, not about the rest of the UK, England, England, England throughout his whole whole career. ⁓ all the talk of money. This man was often in debt. He lost a lot of money and he borrowed a lot of money. So that's why he's singing money makes the world go round. Yeah, I imagine in history I mean, I don't know about this and I'm sure Phil might want to hop on and correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I might be. But from from what I've read, I imagine he was kind of looked upon as getting the UK into a lot of debt with his borrowing. But I imagine he felt like he had to do that to make the UK England great. Sorry, I I ⁓ he was Chancellor of the Exchequer for a a a while before he was Prime Minister. ⁓ he famously sort of reduced the tax on tea and I think it was malt, but it something 'cause he said he wanted to improve the working classes. But that was a massive, a massive cost. So he had to massively raise income tax and the housing tax, which made him slightly unpopular in his in his in his conservative base. So yes, he was So that was definitely early on where he was seen as yeah, not not proper conservative in terms of his spending plans. His wife. So he was married to Mary Ann Lewis. ⁓ and it was very much a marriage for money that turned into a marriage of love. She was twelve years older than him. she was a widow. And I think actually, rather than Victoria, people frowning or her being worried. She was known as being really eccentric and wasn't a Victorian lady as we think Victorian ladies should be. So I think people probably ⁓ looked down on her for her No. No. He's telling me no. He's he's just coming in and saying no. Okay. That's that he's not saying that's not true, because he's telling me it is, but that he wasn't worried about that. Well he ⁓ yeah. There's a lovely quote that he said about her. And that I really want to share because I think our listeners will like it. And it was Marianne, I married you for your money, but if I had to do it again, I'd marry you for love. ⁓ that's really sweet. And he was an author as well, so obviously great with words. Churchill's war rooms, Lisa. This is when we go, blime, you pull some things out. ⁓ Churchill's war rooms were only so well protected and fortified. because of Disraeli's craftsmanship and his demand of craftsmanship on the Victorian buildings that they were built upon. So he was really ⁓ he was really particular about how he wanted those rooms built. And because they were built so well, that meant they could be Churchill's bunker later on. I think that's amazing. We're getting side sorry, I'm wait I wait I'm wondering whether Phil's gonna come in. Sorry Phil's gonna come in. Sorry for sorry Frankie leaving you hang in. Sorry. ⁓ perhaps ⁓ on the politics. ⁓ yes, absolutely

what you're saying about the Public Health Act. ⁓ he also made it mandatory for towns to appoint medical officers and sanitary inspectors as part of that. But he had ⁓ a a political quote, his famous political quote was the care of the public health is the first duty of a statesman. So he was absolutely very much into public health. and as you said, housing. ⁓ the other thing, ⁓ I'm surprised your grandfather isn't here sort of jumping up and down. ⁓ but Disraeli was actually very instrumental in ⁓ supporting the trade unions, bizarrely. ⁓ he effectively legalised them. ⁓ he gave he gave the right, made the right to pick it legal. ⁓ he also gave workers the he balanced the legal power and gave workers the right to to sue employers on the contract. So he actually did quite a lot when you're saying about the fact he did quite a lot for the workers and unions. ⁓ which ⁓ so when you're saying about him supporting that that was ⁓ very very much important. The other thing and you're talking about Russia. ⁓ he was involved in the Treaty of Berlin, which ⁓ followed I think it's the Turkish ⁓ Russian War, ⁓ but had the had the benefit at the time, as the ⁓ UK would have said. I say UK, I know. ⁓ because that severely limited Russian power and pushed them back and actually cr created Romania and Slovenia and some of those states, I suppose in modern terms, but it was the treaty that pushed Russia back and pushed and reduced their influence in in that part of Europe. So yeah, public health, trade unions and ⁓ limiting the power of Russia. Can I just add on to that about Russia as well, Phil? Mm-hmm. With that, what else did he do? He re drew he redrew the map of Europe and the Near East. And that's what Lisa said needed happening again from him. Mm-hmm. His words. And acquired Cyprus. Another cool thing, Lisa, of your sunky information you gave through, you said about Disraeli with cat. He never had pet cats, but during Dis Ailey's time we had the first pet cat at Downing Street and he was very fond of him. I love that. Do you know what I'm gonna go full disclosure on everybody and and I maybe will look this up as well. I Phil talked about the union thing, and that because it would be the easiest thing in the world for me to say, ⁓ yeah, that's it, that's why he was talking about that. I didn't feel that with him at all. even though he did that and that's great, ⁓ that's not what I felt. He was showing me a real like he was juggling with these workers. That's how I felt. And I felt his frustration ⁓ with them. And I can insert that now that he wanted them to have these rights and I can put that in. But there was absolutely and I have to be true to what he's saying, an absolute frustration. with these people and he's calling them these people. he looks he doesn't look on them as slaves. It's not that he wanted them to have rights and he's telling me that. But he his motivation is wanting people to work. Am I making sense with that? You are absolutely spot on. And I didn't want to interrupt Phil when he said it, but what I read was that he gave these people the rights to try and keep them quiet. It wasn't to give them rights, it was to try and just diffuse the situation because I think there was five different riots in Wales during his reign. Yes, and that's what I felt, rights, 'cause I kept on saying strikes. And I felt strikes were a part of it, but I didn't feel I d riots they kept on saying. But yeah, I n as soon as Phil said about the unions, I thought, Mm, okay. I was wrong on that because that's not the emotion that was being conveyed with me. You know, the emotion was One of he did these things for the convenience of the country and he saw them very much as workers and workers that needed to be doing their jobs. That's how I read it as well when I was reading about it. ⁓ so that's really interesting, the the twist, because I think you're right. You kind of accidentally gave people rights. So I I was obviously too s ⁓ too sold on the union set for it got too excited. Your ego got in the way, Phil. My ego. Yeah. The other thing he did that actually impacted upon Wales was he extended the fr ⁓ franchise, which actually gave ⁓ a lot of ⁓ and had a big impact with Welsh coal miners and iron workers and gave Mertha, Swansea, Newports, towns like that, small cities like that, ⁓ a lot more power and influence because they actually had the vote. And that actually sort of kind of all did help the laid movement, which I don't think ⁓ tying into what you're saying he would have been overkeen on. No. He said that it wasn't his intention to give people vote. It wasn't his intention. It's for him it was all about he's talking about a well oiled machine. His motivation was a well oiled machine. and how it happened, it was practical. He was a pragmatist. That's how it happened. But at the same time He was also ahead of his time. So he didn't hate the th thing that he did, but there's definitely a a taunting with me with this flag as well. There is an absolute taunting. And I have to convey that emotion despite his actions appearing to be a certain way. There is a taunting. okay. And I what I will say is you said town and then changed it. They were all towns then. ⁓ so you were right. They're cities now, but they were towns. Yeah. Sorry, Frankie, carry on. I I don't have anything more to say, just that when you first said at the beginning of that episode you had Benjamin Disraeli, I'm full disclosure, my stomach dropped and I thought, ⁓ my God, what are we gonna do with that? But actually, all the information was so ⁓ perfectly said and even in like an order that we could really follow and research as you were saying it. So That was awesome. Well, if you think your stomach dropped, when I saw him and I wrote his name down, my stomach really dropped. And I thought, what am I going to do with this? Because I pride myself on being absolutely useless at history and it helps me with this. But the people we've had, I've known of, I don't know the details about them, but I know who Queen Victoria is. I knew what she looked like. I knew who Henry VIII was. I know what he looks like, you know. I didn't know the detail around him, and they brought detail that I didn't know. But Benjamin Disraeli, the only thing I knew about him was he had been a Prime Minister. I didn't know that he was Victoria's Prime Minister. And so I was looking at it going, ⁓ and also Phil loves his politics and he loves his political history, but he is famously in this household bad at previous prime ministers. He will admit it himself. ⁓ and so I knew that wasn't going to be in his wheelhouse as well. So I was panicking even further. But yeah, it went all right. So trust the process is what I want to say to everybody who trusts the process. And I'm really glad that I've learnt more about Benjamin Disraeli, because actually, what a cool character he is. Somewhat. Unless you're Welsh. Unless you're Welch. I'm not feeling the same wound. No. ⁓ If you enjoyed that episode of ⁓ Talking Ghost Channeling history, do like, share. repost, follow. We've had some five-star reviews this week. So exciting. And of course, as well as this, we do our regular podcast, Talking Ghosts, ⁓ where we talk about mediumship, ⁓ spiritual topics of the week. And until next week, thank you so much. And thank you, Lisa and Mr. Disraeli. Thank you, everybody. And thank you, Victoria and Mr. Disraeli, or Benny, as I will now call him.