النص الكامل لحلقة Why Sales Leaders Keep Making Bad Hires (And How to Stop)

apply for them. I heard a stat 67 00:03:23,630 --> 00:03:26,990 that actually 10,000 applications are made per minute 68 00:03:27,470 --> 00:03:30,740 on LinkedIn, and it just kind of makes me feel like, how can 69 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,920 those applicants be relevant to those jobs? It creates 70 00:03:34,100 --> 00:03:36,890 challenges for candidates, it creates challenges for hiring 71 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,040 managers as well, and overall everybody just seems to be lost 72 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:43,780 in this wealth of information that's flying in, but with no 73 00:03:43,900 --> 00:03:46,990 real clear way of actually using technology to maybe really help 74 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,510 cut through the noise and find the right people to join their 75 00:03:49,540 --> 00:03:51,970 business, and for people to find the right opportunities that are 76 00:03:51,970 --> 00:03:53,290 going to give them the career they're looking for. 77 00:03:53,650 --> 00:03:55,270 Bryan Mulry: Yeah, that sounds pretty chaotic. I'm saying that 78 00:03:55,300 --> 00:03:57,850 as somebody who I'd most would see it on the candidate side. 79 00:03:58,060 --> 00:04:00,100 Tim, have you seen that done on the leadership side over the 80 00:04:00,100 --> 00:04:00,840 last little while, 81 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,330 Tim Ogle: I see a lot of leadership going, "How the hell 82 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,460 do we pick the right person? And it's largely because there's 83 00:04:05,580 --> 00:04:09,240 just so many applicants and so many candidates, and how do you 84 00:04:09,330 --> 00:04:11,940 just get the right sort of people you want? And the second 85 00:04:11,940 --> 00:04:14,520 thing, how do you attract the right people? It's so easy to 86 00:04:14,580 --> 00:04:16,740 apply for jobs now. LinkedIn have almost dumbed it down to a 87 00:04:16,770 --> 00:04:19,170 clicker button. Here you go, and no thought went to the into that 88 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,550 process, and as a result of that, you just get spammed, and 89 00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:24,260 it's not good from either side. From the candidate's 90 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,320 perspective, you often don't hear anything back ever. And 91 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,300 from the leadership side, they're sat there going, How can 92 00:04:29,330 --> 00:04:32,060 I possibly review 300 applications? Like, you just 93 00:04:32,090 --> 00:04:33,830 can't. It's impossible. And in the times 94 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,170 Elaine Tyler: that take that, it would take somebody to do that. 95 00:04:36,230 --> 00:04:39,230 Sometimes jobs could even have changed, because elements of 96 00:04:39,290 --> 00:04:41,260 technology have changed what companies are really looking 97 00:04:41,380 --> 00:04:44,200 for. Every sales leader is battling like a very unstable, 98 00:04:44,950 --> 00:04:47,500 unpredictable economy, so they're also set with the 99 00:04:47,590 --> 00:04:49,930 challenge of like, do we really need this person or is this the 100 00:04:49,930 --> 00:04:52,000 person that we need in three to six months. 101 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,160 Bryan Mulry: Yeah, and then as you're hiring for that person, 102 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,890 let's say you need it in three to six months, as you're hiring 103 00:04:56,950 --> 00:05:00,060 for that, you decide we need this, we don't need this. We're 104 00:05:00,060 --> 00:05:02,490 going to go down the AI route. Things have changed. This one is 105 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,460 key. Actually, one that I've seen quite a bit recently is 106 00:05:05,550 --> 00:05:08,880 people go starting to go down the process of hiring SDRs, and 107 00:05:08,940 --> 00:05:11,970 then questioning the value of SDRs when they see things like 108 00:05:12,270 --> 00:05:15,660 clay, or they see a fun video on LinkedIn that tells you that you 109 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,720 can automate the whole process for a 10 or a week. I'd love to 110 00:05:18,750 --> 00:05:21,590 know a little bit more about sort of how people are changing 111 00:05:21,620 --> 00:05:23,960 their minds or what's happening here, and where the uncertainty 112 00:05:23,990 --> 00:05:24,890 is currently coming from. 113 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:26,750 Elaine Tyler: I think that people are just unsure about the 114 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:29,720 impact of technology and what that means for roles in general, 115 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:34,610 because let's face it, hiring people is in itself laced with 116 00:05:34,970 --> 00:05:38,030 problems, challenges, expense. So naturally, when faced with 117 00:05:38,060 --> 00:05:40,660 all these tools that people feel that they could take advantage 118 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:44,200 of it seems like an easier route, but then on reflection, 119 00:05:44,260 --> 00:05:46,690 for businesses to think, well, you know, am I growing talent 120 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,180 from the grassroots level that's going to furnish my more senior 121 00:05:49,270 --> 00:05:51,970 sales team in the future? Will people actually buy into 122 00:05:52,090 --> 00:05:54,730 conversations with AI if they're trying to make expensive 123 00:05:54,790 --> 00:05:58,480 purchases? And ultimately, all of these are just unknowns right 124 00:05:58,540 --> 00:06:02,070 now, so that kind of creates this stop-start motion around. 125 00:06:02,310 --> 00:06:04,710 Should we do it? Shouldn't we do it? Is it the right thing to do? 126 00:06:05,070 --> 00:06:08,010 And ultimately, because of the ever-changing nature, people are 127 00:06:08,070 --> 00:06:09,930 worried and scared about making decisions right now. 128 00:06:10,140 --> 00:06:11,640 Bryan Mulry: There's a lot of risk in this. Actually, moving 129 00:06:11,700 --> 00:06:13,740 on to that, I mean, look, let's just look at the cost of.. I 130 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,960 mean, this is the high stakes job. This is a high stakes

131 00:06:16,260 --> 00:06:19,320 decision. Just looking at a couple of stats from typically 132 00:06:19,500 --> 00:06:21,740 our sort of software industry, in that you know, a mis-hire in 133 00:06:21,830 --> 00:06:24,890 sales can wipe out about 30% of that rep's first year value on 134 00:06:24,980 --> 00:06:28,520 day one. Most firms admit to hiring at least one wrong 135 00:06:28,670 --> 00:06:32,600 salesperson, and gut feeling, as you mentioned there, Tim, only 136 00:06:32,660 --> 00:06:35,180 really predicts like top performers 20% of the time. The 137 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,640 other 80% of the time it's a bad indicator of top performance. 138 00:06:37,790 --> 00:06:40,420 Almost half of sales managers admit that they don't know how 139 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,550 to recruit effectively, and Elaine, I don't put words in 140 00:06:42,550 --> 00:06:45,700 your mouth. I bet the other 57% just wouldn't admit it. And then 141 00:06:45,820 --> 00:06:49,570 it can replacing a failed sales person cost one and a half 142 00:06:49,630 --> 00:06:51,790 times, or almost two times, the annual compensation of that rep. 143 00:06:52,090 --> 00:06:56,140 There is a lot of fear in this, and that's why people turn to, I 144 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,600 mean, even giving you guys a bit of big peek behind the curtain 145 00:06:58,690 --> 00:07:00,750 here. Inside of MySalesCoach, a lot of people are coming to us 146 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,480 asking, are there assessments I can run? Is there a way that we 147 00:07:03,570 --> 00:07:06,180 can interview people or be prepared better for 148 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,550 individualised interviews earlier on in the in the 149 00:07:08,670 --> 00:07:10,980 interview cycle or the selection cycle? We'll come back to that 150 00:07:11,010 --> 00:07:14,640 later, but before I even move on here, sort of, how Elaine, Tim, 151 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,150 you guys see this on a daily, daily basis, do these stats, do 152 00:07:18,180 --> 00:07:21,290 they sort of do they do they align with what you're seeing on 153 00:07:21,830 --> 00:07:22,490 a, on a daily basis. 154 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,980 Tim Ogle: Yes, and more extreme is, I think, my short answer on 155 00:07:25,010 --> 00:07:28,610 that. The longer answer, miss higher sales, it's way more 156 00:07:28,670 --> 00:07:31,790 costly than 30% of a salary's first year rep, and the costs go 157 00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:34,370 way beyond that, because there's, they're so involved, 158 00:07:34,460 --> 00:07:37,760 you know, cost of client damage, reputational damage, missed 159 00:07:37,820 --> 00:07:40,570 opportunity, it just goes on. So, you can, you can quickly end 160 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,120 up with hundreds of 1000s of pounds or dollars. Second thing, 161 00:07:43,540 --> 00:07:46,150 92% of firms admit hiring at least one wrong salesperson. I 162 00:07:46,210 --> 00:07:48,400 think they're being coy, because if

you go and speak to most 163 00:07:48,430 --> 00:07:50,890 sales managers, how successful, and you look anecdotal, I know, 164 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,710 but off a sample size of probably 20 sales leaders in the 165 00:07:53,710 --> 00:07:57,640 last 12 months, how successful you're hiring 50% best, like 166 00:07:57,790 --> 00:08:01,380 it's literally a 5050 so 50 good, 50 not good. That's fairly 167 00:08:01,470 --> 00:08:03,810 honest, because I asked for that in a very private forum. 168 00:08:04,020 --> 00:08:05,940 Elaine Tyler: It's also, I think, very damaging for team 169 00:08:05,970 --> 00:08:08,370 morale. So, you know, when you're a hiring manager and you 170 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,530 bring somebody on board and it turns out that person was the 171 00:08:10,590 --> 00:08:13,050 wrong hire, not negative, potentially about their own 172 00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:15,450 opportunity. And I think that, you know, one of the reasons why 173 00:08:15,510 --> 00:08:18,300 this happened so much is, you know, as we know, great sales 174 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,830 people don't necessarily always make great managers, and no way 175 00:08:21,860 --> 00:08:24,800 is that a bad thing. Some people are cut out to be the person on 176 00:08:24,860 --> 00:08:27,080 the front line, interacting with the customers every day, and 177 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,260 that's their specialist skill. And some sales people are 178 00:08:30,470 --> 00:08:32,570 supposed to be managers, and they turn out to grow to grow 179 00:08:32,630 --> 00:08:35,420 those, those that skill set. But either, if you're a salesperson 180 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,030 or a manager, it doesn't mean that you're a great interviewer 181 00:08:38,390 --> 00:08:40,970 or a great hirer, because that's a whole different skill set. And 182 00:08:41,030 --> 00:08:43,120 the question is, like, how are people really taught that, and I 183 00:08:43,180 --> 00:08:45,280 know that there are businesses out there that do put time and 184 00:08:45,310 --> 00:08:48,220 effort into making sure that this is seen as a core part of a 185 00:08:48,490 --> 00:08:50,800 sales leader's activity, but for, you know, many businesses 186 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,720 out there that are small and strapped for resources, your 187 00:08:52,810 --> 00:08:56,020 first experience of learning how to interview an SDR is becoming 188 00:08:56,050 --> 00:08:58,480 a senior SDR, and then being invited last minute into the 189 00:08:58,750 --> 00:09:01,710 interview, of like, you jump on this, and you know, tell me what 190 00:09:01,710 --> 00:09:04,230 you think of this person. And no benchmarks have really been set. 191 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,080 They don't really have, like, an idea in their mind of, like, 192 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:08,640 what they're actually supposed to be looking for in an 193 00:09:08,670 --> 00:09:12,060 interview. And, obviously, interviews themselves are 194

00:09:12,180 --> 00:09:14,520 flawed, because they're an invitation for somebody to come 195 00:09:14,550 --> 00:09:17,340 and present their best selves, aren't they? So, at that moment, 196 00:09:17,370 --> 00:09:21,110 you're meeting hopefully the highest version of that person, 197 00:09:21,260 --> 00:09:24,350 their capability, so you know, is the person able to sustain 198 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,960 that level of performance into the job, and if you're 199 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,300 inexperienced and you haven't done a lot of times and no one's 200 00:09:29,330 --> 00:09:31,460 really told you how to do it, and you have a benchmark, I can, 201 00:09:31,550 --> 00:09:33,740 I think that's a really difficult task to be asking 202 00:09:33,890 --> 00:09:35,420 sales people and sales leaders to do. 203 00:09:35,750 --> 00:09:38,030 Bryan Mulry: Yeah, it's almost like people are winging it, and 204 00:09:38,060 --> 00:09:40,960 what ends up happening with this, without this set process, 205 00:09:41,260 --> 00:09:43,960 without a set way of looking at it, if you are hiring people, 206 00:09:44,260 --> 00:09:48,100 you spend so much time coaching the wrong person rather than 207 00:09:48,130 --> 00:09:50,800 enabling your best people, because if you've got someone on 208 00:09:50,830 --> 00:09:52,570 your team that's struggling, what are you going to do? Only 209 00:09:52,810 --> 00:09:55,060 help that person, invest time and resources into the person 210 00:09:55,060 --> 00:09:59,200 that's struggling, rather than taking someone from 80% to 100% 211 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:02,460 you're taking. Someone from 20% to 50% and it's not just the 212 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,790 waste of money and resource, it is also the waste of coaching 213 00:10:05,940 --> 00:10:11,400 energy and management time and business effort into someone who 214 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:12,720 was never going to be a good fit in the first place. 215 00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:14,790 Tim Ogle: If you are starting, I mean, there's probably leaders 216 00:10:14,820 --> 00:10:16,860 on here thinking about hiring, or they've got the team of 217 00:10:16,890 --> 00:10:19,350 people and going, well, how are they all from a transformational 218 00:10:19,380 --> 00:10:22,640 perspective? I would always recommend that you've got the 219 00:10:22,670 --> 00:10:25,370 team, you've got like there'll be a real mix of capabilities in 220 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,800 there. The thing I always find is there are people who always 221 00:10:27,860 --> 00:10:30,650 surprise you, so start with your template of who you've got there 222 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:33,020 and work on them and coach them. So you may not have the perfect 223 00:10:33,050 --> 00:10:35,240 person in your team right now, but you could adapt them and 224 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,540 make them amazing. However, do not hire non-amating people, 225 00:10:38,870 --> 00:10:41,320 take the best fit you can, like it's a different benchmark 226 00:10:41,380 --> 00:10:43,210 you're working to at this point, when you're hiring, take the 227 00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:45,700 best you can, and that sort of feeds into your statement. 228 00:10:46,090 --> 00:10:47,350 Bryan Mulry: Here's what we're going to do: we're going to run 229 00:10:47,410 --> 00:10:50,530 through each different stage of the candidate selection process, 230 00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:53,170 and make sure that we are following best practices as we 231 00:10:53,230 --> 00:10:55,810 go through that. Starting off, the way people hire has changed. 232 00:10:56,050 --> 00:10:58,810 So, in the old time, it used to be you post a job, you get a CV, 233 00:10:58,990 --> 00:11:01,230 you'd shortlist the candidates based on CVS, do a couple of 234 00:11:01,260 --> 00:11:03,120 interviews, you'd make a decision on those, and then 235 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,730 you'd onboard them. Nowadays, nobody knows what headcount they 236 00:11:05,820 --> 00:11:08,310 have, so one day they're told to hire, the next day they're told 237 00:11:08,340 --> 00:11:10,860 that it's frozen. TVs are AI-generated, so they're all 238 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,410 using the same words with the same people in the same realm. 239 00:11:13,860 --> 00:11:16,530 Because of that, you find it very difficult to read candidate 240 00:11:16,590 --> 00:11:19,620 fit, because everyone is using the same systems to say the same 241 00:11:19,770 --> 00:11:22,310 things, just sometimes the numbers are different. You then 242 00:11:22,610 --> 00:11:24,830 end up having to spread the decision across multiple people, 243 00:11:25,130 --> 00:11:27,620 because you've got multiple interviews with different teams, 244 00:11:27,830 --> 00:11:30,530 all of which need to come to a consensus. And as a result, when 245 00:11:30,530 --> 00:11:33,440 the candidate asks, How am I doing in this process, you go, 246 00:11:33,620 --> 00:11:36,350 Well, look, I've, you know, I'll have to ask John about what he 247 00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:39,890 thought Steven said about you, and there's no coherent process 248 00:11:39,950 --> 00:11:42,580 to it. And as a result, it gets incredibly muddied, and towards 249 00:11:42,580 --> 00:11:44,950 the end of it, someone high up in the business just goes, 250 00:11:45,340 --> 00:11:47,020 "Look, we're fine, let's just put this off another quarter, 251 00:11:47,260 --> 00:11:49,090 and we got to restart again. So, our job today is to make sure 252 00:11:49,180 --> 00:11:52,180 that this changes. There has to be a better way. Let's start 253 00:11:52,180 --> 00:11:52,690 with the talent pool. 254 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:54,580 Elaine Tyler: So, I think that you know, over time, we've heard 255 00:11:54,610 --> 00:11:57,640 about the death of various things within the sales 256 00:11:57,700 --> 00:12:00,190 industry, perhaps you know the SDR function that was widely 257 00:12:00,220 -->

00:12:02,880 discussed at one point, much to my dismay, but I think the death 258 00:12:02,940 --> 00:12:05,400 of the job advert is like definitely something that you 259 00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:08,520 know I've really seen and experienced, because I think 260 00:12:08,580 --> 00:12:10,920 that what's happening right now is that not only have we've got 261 00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:14,940 AI-generated CVs, but we've got AI-generated applications and 262 00:12:15,150 --> 00:12:18,630 AI-generated CVs that have generated against the job advert 263 00:12:18,690 --> 00:12:21,020 that's been posted, and employers are just receiving 264 00:12:21,170 --> 00:12:23,870 hundreds of these, so it's literally completely impossible 265 00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:26,090 for them to differentiate between them. So, I think that 266 00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:29,930 looking at non-traditional ways of creating talent pools is key 267 00:12:30,590 --> 00:12:33,860 to actually uncovering candidates that would actually 268 00:12:33,890 --> 00:12:36,590 be relevant for the role that you're hiring for. So, one of 269 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:40,220 the things that we are very keen on at Venetrix, hopefully for 270 00:12:40,220 --> 00:12:42,040 those of you connected with, I'm sure you know what I'm about to 271 00:12:42,130 --> 00:12:45,460 say, is LinkedIn content, and the team at MySalesCoach are 272 00:12:45,460 --> 00:12:48,520 also absolute stars at that as well. I think that when you 273 00:12:48,580 --> 00:12:50,950 encourage people within your company, particularly in the 274 00:12:50,950 --> 00:12:53,020 sales function, if that's where you're looking to hire, to help 275 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,930 build the company brand by agreeing, what is the message, 276 00:12:56,020 --> 00:12:58,000 or what do we stand for as a business, and how are we going 277 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,720 to portray that on the tool that is LinkedIn? If you ask people 278 00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:03,120 to build their own personal brands that people could buy 279 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,000 into again, get that sense of personality. You might find you 280 00:13:06,030 --> 00:13:08,970 get like direct messages from people where it's a bit easier 281 00:13:09,150 --> 00:13:12,240 to maybe digest who they are because of the way that they're 282 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:15,030 writing that personal message about the opportunity that you 283 00:13:15,150 --> 00:13:17,760 are potentially talking about on those channels. It's very 284 00:13:17,850 --> 00:13:21,980 different and less faceless than a 250 word, very similar to the 285 00:13:22,100 --> 00:13:25,100 next job advert that's been posted on LinkedIn jobs that 286 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,080 even the candidate can't differentiate between, so I 287 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,360 think personal brands and company brands, Venice Ricks, 288 00:13:29,420 --> 00:13:32,120 we've got 11 team members and over 100,000 followers across 289 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,880 the people who we are connected with, and obviously a curated 290 00:13:34,970 --> 00:13:38,660 pool of SaaS sales people within London and the US. I also think 291 00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:42,730 that a strong referral scheme can give organisations a head 292 00:13:42,850 --> 00:13:47,650 start, so everybody you employ probably knows a handful of 293 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,350 strong people from businesses that they've worked with before, 294 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,870 communities that are in friendship groups, whatever it 295 00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:55,870 may be, university alumni from way back when, and have you 296 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,480 asked them to dig down into right, what, what, who do you 297 00:13:58,540 --> 00:14:00,480 know now in your professional network, who could be somebody 298 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,660 who joins this business, and you could incentivize people around 299 00:14:03,660 --> 00:14:06,180 that financially. Again, going to cut through that noise, and 300 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,070 you're immediately directly talking, potentially, to a 301 00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:11,760 better quality candidate. Events and meetups, so I've seen 302 00:14:11,820 --> 00:14:14,370 companies run recruitment events on site, where they, you know, 303 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,620 in the evening, invite people in. You probably need to have 304 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:18,960 that brand in the first place, and that channel to be able to 305 00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:21,440 promote it, but again, you're like getting face to face in 306 00:14:21,470 --> 00:14:23,960 front of people, it could be like somebody else's event, 307 00:14:24,020 --> 00:14:26,870 where you know there could be a catchment of the type of 308 00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:30,080 candidates that you'd like to be talking to, so job adverts 309 00:14:30,650 --> 00:14:34,340 create noise. The question is, How can you more directly get to 310 00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:37,310 the quality candidates that you want to have a conversation 311 00:14:37,370 --> 00:14:39,530 with, that you want to be able to differentiate your 312 00:14:39,650 --> 00:14:42,070 opportunity in front of live and direct, 313 00:14:42,430 --> 00:14:44,050 Bryan Mulry: Tim, what comes to your mind? We'll talk about 314 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:44,470 talent pools. 315 00:14:44,620 --> 00:14:47,110 Tim Ogle: Couple of things, I mean, everything Elaine said, I 316 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,800 completely agree with. I saw a job advert from an organisation, 317 00:14:50,860 --> 00:14:53,530 not technical at all, completely left field. You go, what on 318 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,990 earth is Tim looking at here? It's a business I know locally, 319 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,290 they're a charity, to be fair, they look after horses, they're 320 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,410 called Happer. So, if you're interested in horse and you

321 00:15:01,410 --> 00:15:03,240 won't go and check it out, they're called Half of Horses, H 322 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,540 A P P A. They put out the most amazing job advert a week or so 323 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,330 ago, and I liked it so much because it wasn't a job advert, 324 00:15:09,330 --> 00:15:12,090 it was basically an insight into their charity, what they do, 325 00:15:12,210 --> 00:15:14,490 what they believe in, what they value, and in doing that, 326 00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:16,890 they're attracting the right sort of people into that 327 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,530 conversation. Go and have a look. Honestly, you're 328 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,920 completely left field. It's also a nice organisation to do some 329 00:15:21,950 --> 00:15:25,070 great work for horses, but that aside, it was just a really good 330 00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:28,400 example of a very different way of advertising a job. So, like, 331 00:15:28,490 --> 00:15:31,280 it second thing I was going to add to what Elaine said: 332 00:15:31,580 --> 00:15:34,580 networking. Yes, definitely. I'm not a sales leader now. I don't 333 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,980 currently recruit any sales people, although I do help in a 334 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,860 lot of recruitment exercises for clients that I work with. The 335 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,030 one thing I always say to every sales leader is always be 336 00:15:43,180 --> 00:15:46,030 recruiting, like you never know when you need to hire somebody, 337 00:15:46,540 --> 00:15:49,030 like it may - you may have no application, no requirement 338 00:15:49,060 --> 00:15:50,980 today, but you don't know when the next person is going to fall 339 00:15:51,070 --> 00:15:53,260 sick, resign, go leave, you suffer, you sack, you know, 340 00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:56,170 whatever happens, that is unknown. So always be hiring, 341 00:15:56,290 --> 00:15:58,930 always be on the lookout for talent, and that means having 342 00:15:58,990 --> 00:16:01,260 conversations and coffees with people, meet them in networking 343 00:16:01,470 --> 00:16:04,140 events, meet them online, you know, take that time when it's 344 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,480 not a recruitment exercise to get to know them a bit, they'll 345 00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:09,120 warm to you, you'll warm to them if they're the right fit, and it 346 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,100 means that when you need to hire, you often have a short 347 00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:13,710 list of people ready to go, you already know the top 10 people 348 00:16:13,710 --> 00:16:16,110 you're going to go, oh, this job come out, de fancy it, and that 349 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:19,440 speeds up the job so much, but it does take a bit of effort, 350 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,530 it's an attitude thing from a leadership style, so just being 351 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,900 open to conversations with all the people out there who might 352 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,420

potentially, in the future, be people, and I found one of my 353 00:16:26,630 --> 00:16:29,330 best sales leaders in a previous life. I'd known him for 12 354 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,940 months, I was introduced to him by a referral that said you two 355 00:16:31,970 --> 00:16:34,550 would get on. It wasn't until 12 months later I actually had a 356 00:16:34,580 --> 00:16:37,220 requirement for that person, and I only interviewed one person, 357 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:38,900 and they got the job, and they were brilliant. 358 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,370 Elaine Tyler: I also think another style that of people 359 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,130 presenting their roles, I think, works really well, and you know, 360 00:16:45,130 --> 00:16:47,440 when I've read it, I've enjoyed seeing it. I also think helps 361 00:16:47,470 --> 00:16:49,660 with some of the problems of hiring the wrong person, 362 00:16:50,020 --> 00:16:53,650 struggling to onboard people, and eventually losing them. It's 363 00:16:53,710 --> 00:16:55,270 really highlighting the challenges about the job, 364 00:16:55,450 --> 00:16:58,660 instead of the nice, the niceties, and the benefits. So, 365 00:16:58,990 --> 00:17:03,030 you know, almost the kind of aligned message internally of 366 00:17:03,330 --> 00:17:06,150 this job is not for you if you know you don't enjoy these 367 00:17:06,270 --> 00:17:08,700 things, basically, which are going to be really tough, and I 368 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,220 think of some of the most successful businesses that I 369 00:17:11,250 --> 00:17:13,920 have hired for, they have told me in the interview process, 370 00:17:14,010 --> 00:17:15,900 look, you know, we're not going to put the candidates off per 371 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,530 se, but we're going to be really, really candid about how 372 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:24,110 hard this job is, because news flash sales is hard and people 373 00:17:24,140 --> 00:17:26,120 need to be prepared for that coming in, because otherwise, if 374 00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:28,400 it's shock as a part, the onboarding process, or a few 375 00:17:28,460 --> 00:17:30,620 months down the line, you know, the targets come as a shock, 376 00:17:30,860 --> 00:17:32,360 you're going to find yourself in a sticky situation. 377 00:17:32,570 --> 00:17:34,160 Bryan Mulry: Okay, so we spent a good bit of time now here on 378 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,830 talent pools. Once you've got your talent pool, you've got a 379 00:17:36,890 --> 00:17:39,590 job, we now to go through sales process, and look, most sales 380 00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:41,770 leaders we talk to is like hiring is a distraction. I have 381 00:17:41,860 --> 00:17:44,080 to do my hiring work before I can get through my actual work, 382 00:17:44,260 --> 00:17:46,480 and my actual work is my one on ones with my coaches, or, sorry, 383 00:17:46,570 --> 00:17:48,700 one on ones with my reps. And then, after that, I've got to 384 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:50,710 coach them. And a lot of interviews just look like this. 385 00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:56,140 It's like just blocks of time: interview, 123456, Yeah, fine. I 386 00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:58,660 like number two. Kick it on to a next process. Next stage, what's 387 00:17:58,660 --> 00:18:00,330 the next stage? Don't worry about it. HR will deal with 388 00:18:00,330 --> 00:18:03,750 that, so when we look at the selection process, like what 389 00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:07,830 does a repeatable high-quality selection process actually look 390 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,100 like? And really key here, what assumptions are people making 391 00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:13,740 that is costing them time and effort? Tim, I start here with 392 00:18:13,770 --> 00:18:15,630 you on this one before and move over to Elaine. 393 00:18:15,870 --> 00:18:17,730 Tim Ogle: First thing, I really please, we changed the title of 394 00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:20,340 the slide, because I know we debated in the last 48 hours, 395 00:18:20,490 --> 00:18:23,090 because it started with repeatable interview process. 396 00:18:23,330 --> 00:18:25,070 So, I'm glad we turned into selection, because it's wider 397 00:18:25,070 --> 00:18:27,320 than just interview. I think we've got to be more creative 398 00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:29,630 than ever in like what we put into this. You've got to get 399 00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:32,300 people off balance a bit, because it's so easy to come up, 400 00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:35,510 like they do with the CV. Here's my formulated, like Chat GPT 401 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,290 tuned CV in interviews, the same, like they can come up with 402 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,530 a standard answer. So, we've got to put things in here, which are 403 00:18:41,530 --> 00:18:44,140 going to put them off kilter, and that could be things like it 404 00:18:44,140 --> 00:18:45,850 could be role play, it could be examples, it could be case 405 00:18:45,910 --> 00:18:49,720 studies, it could be it could be assessments. I, me, and like 406 00:18:50,170 --> 00:18:52,570 myself, coach, we both use OMG here, but yeah, there's others 407 00:18:52,690 --> 00:18:54,610 out there, but you know it's really good to see some sort of 408 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,190 candidate assessments going on, because it just helps filter in 409 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,220 what's going on here. I also think in the selection process, 410 00:19:00,310 --> 00:19:02,820 make some of the application difficult. It can be too easy to 411 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,850 apply for jobs, and if you put in a couple of steps, which are 412 00:19:05,850 --> 00:19:08,130 going to take an extra half hour of thought and effort to make it 413 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,100 work, you'll rip out 90% of the applicants, but you'll get to 414 00:19:11,130 --> 00:19:13,320 the ones who actually want the job. So, make it a bit more 415 00:19:13,380 --> 00:19:15,570

difficult, even though things like easy apply happen in 416 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,550 LinkedIn. Go look, you get loads of applications, I think it's a 417 00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:20,570 crazy thing to do. I'll stop there, because I'm sure Elaine's 418 00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:22,460 got loads of good ideas here, and loads of thoughts. 419 00:19:22,790 --> 00:19:25,070 Elaine Tyler: So, I think you know, going back to one of the 420 00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:28,760 points we highlighted earlier in the, in the slides, is trying to 421 00:19:28,790 --> 00:19:33,140 avoid the decision paralysis at the end is a key part of 422 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,250 designing the selection process. So, ultimately, what are we 423 00:19:37,370 --> 00:19:40,070 hiring this person to do, and why needs to be a key 424 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,120 understanding that all the stakeholders are aligned on, and 425 00:19:43,150 --> 00:19:47,440 then from there you can create a scorecard again that everybody 426 00:19:47,530 --> 00:19:50,440 has agreed on around what therefore needs to be 427 00:19:50,530 --> 00:19:53,080 demonstrated in the process, and how you're going to test that 428 00:19:53,170 --> 00:19:55,120 through the different mediums, some of which that Tim has just 429 00:19:55,150 --> 00:19:58,390 mentioned. Then everybody needs to agree on how we're grading 430 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,800 that on an A, B, C. Know what does excellent look look like, 431 00:20:01,890 --> 00:20:04,740 what's good, what's, you know, not acceptable. And then that 432 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,550 needs to be heavily discussed, and it is time consuming. It 433 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,830 really is inconvenient when you showed me that diary before, 434 00:20:10,890 --> 00:20:14,040 Brian. You know, it sent shivers up my spine, and I know how that 435 00:20:14,130 --> 00:20:16,650 feels, and I know how that feels for the people that we partner 436 00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:19,380 with as well. But ultimately, investing that time and getting 437 00:20:19,470 --> 00:20:22,280 stakeholders aligned properly will save you time in the long 438 00:20:22,370 --> 00:20:24,650 run of the miss hire and the cost of that and the pain of 439 00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:27,830 that. I also think that as part of the selection process there 440 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,720 needs to be clear understanding of who is selling the job in 441 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,020 what way when, because a big danger can be that companies 442 00:20:36,050 --> 00:20:40,190 design a process where they know somebody needs to move perhaps 443 00:20:40,220 --> 00:20:43,960 the SDR is an SDR, SDR manager first, then the sales leader, 444 00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:46,090 and then you know, if it's dependent on the size of the 445 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,070 company, then there's maybe there's a sign off with the CEO, 446 00:20:48,490 --> 00:20:50,860 and each of those people end up discussing the same things when 447 00:20:50,890 --> 00:20:53,650 they're selling the job about the growth plans, or they all, 448 00:20:53,650 --> 00:20:56,860 they all mention the top SDR in the team and what makes them so 449 00:20:56,980 --> 00:20:59,560 good, but for the candidate, that's actually not a process 450 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,160 that adds value because they're hearing the same kind of case 451 00:21:02,190 --> 00:21:05,580 study in these examples again and again, so actually making 452 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:07,800 sure that the process is properly curated through not 453 00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:10,440 only what it is that you're looking for, but also the 454 00:21:10,620 --> 00:21:13,380 information you're intending to share to get the candidate 455 00:21:13,410 --> 00:21:16,140 buy-in. So, once the selection has been done, you're then 456 00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:19,440 successful in getting that person across the line, and just 457 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,010 one final point as well, on like selection process and making 458 00:21:22,010 --> 00:21:23,960 decisions about people, and obviously you've mentioned 459 00:21:24,020 --> 00:21:26,390 earlier in the presentation about gut feel, and it might be 460 00:21:26,420 --> 00:21:30,260 a little bit controversial here, but I do put some store by gut 461 00:21:30,380 --> 00:21:34,010 feel, particularly when it's bad, because I feel like quite, 462 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,280 I feel like quite often companies, they know there's a 463 00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:40,160 niggling doubt, and they can feel that red flag, and somehow 464 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,340 or another, it isn't coming up in the selection process that 465 00:21:42,370 --> 00:21:44,950 they've defined on the scorecard, but because of a lack 466 00:21:45,010 --> 00:21:47,500 of other applicants and a lack of choice, they end up hiring 467 00:21:47,530 --> 00:21:49,690 that person anyway. And then they kick themselves three 468 00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:51,460 months down the line, because they thought, well, you know 469 00:21:51,610 --> 00:21:55,060 what, I knew that, but I didn't trust gut feel. So, although I 470 00:21:55,090 --> 00:21:57,880 don't believe in processes completely unreliant on gut feel 471 00:21:58,210 --> 00:22:00,280 for somebody like me, who's been interviewing people for 20 472 00:22:00,310 --> 00:22:03,660 years, every single day, non stop. It's like a footballer 473 00:22:03,690 --> 00:22:05,820 kicking a ball, isn't it? Like, understand which angle to kick 474 00:22:05,850 --> 00:22:07,920 it at in order to score the goal, you know? Just maybe I 475 00:22:07,980 --> 00:22:10,170 think being tuned into that sometimes, particularly if it's 476 00:22:10,170 --> 00:22:13,770 a red flag, you know, you need to explore that and not just hop 477 00:22:13,950 --> 00:22:16,140 over it because you're in a rush, you need to make the high, 478 00:22:16,290 --> 00:22:17,070 you're

under pressure. All 479 00:22:17,069 --> 00:22:18,839 Tim Ogle: right, if I can jump in there, like I think that's a 480 00:22:18,929 --> 00:22:20,959 really good point, Elaine, the last one you just made the gut 481 00:22:21,079 --> 00:22:23,719 feel, because I agree it has a place, but I agree it's also 482 00:22:24,019 --> 00:22:26,029 it's more relevant in the negative sense, like if 483 00:22:26,089 --> 00:22:28,459 something's niggling, you don't do it, or put a new step in, put 484 00:22:28,519 --> 00:22:31,279 an extra step, which I knew you haven't planned, and go and test 485 00:22:31,309 --> 00:22:34,069 whatever your niggle is, go find a way of testing that thing. I 486 00:22:34,159 --> 00:22:36,769 can remember somebody I hired, I won't name them, I won't name 487 00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:39,049 the company that might be listening, but they were a bad 488 00:22:39,109 --> 00:22:41,679 hire, but on paper they were a good hire, and all the people 489 00:22:41,769 --> 00:22:43,509 around me were going, they're a good hire, they're a good hire, 490 00:22:43,509 --> 00:22:46,029 and like, and it was a pool, a panel people, and we were using 491 00:22:46,599 --> 00:22:48,759 like a strong competency framework to score everybody, 492 00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:51,159 and they'd scored highly, something just niggled me, and 493 00:22:51,159 --> 00:22:53,679 when I hired them, I wish I hadn't. Anyway, I've never done 494 00:22:53,679 --> 00:22:55,599 it again, it was like the first time, and last time, 495 00:22:55,959 --> 00:22:56,019 Bryan Mulry: yeah, 496 00:22:56,259 --> 00:22:58,149 Tim Ogle: yeah, listen to you got feel specially negative, and 497 00:22:58,149 --> 00:23:00,329 put in an extra tip to test it, and it comes back to the 498 00:23:00,449 --> 00:23:03,839 competency side, how do you get the process right? I think 499 00:23:03,869 --> 00:23:06,509 you've got to look beyond, and I'm sure Elaine coaches, you'll 500 00:23:06,569 --> 00:23:08,939 coach your clients on this. You've got to look beyond the 501 00:23:09,089 --> 00:23:11,369 sort of feature-led of, like, can they sell, and how many 502 00:23:11,579 --> 00:23:13,589 conversations are they having? Some of the obvious stuff that 503 00:23:13,589 --> 00:23:15,899 you might be asking for in a requirement, but we've got to 504 00:23:15,899 --> 00:23:17,909 get to behavioural things here. We've got to get down to their 505 00:23:17,939 --> 00:23:19,829 values and behaviours of who they are as people, because 506 00:23:19,889 --> 00:23:22,519 that's the stuff that is really difficult to change, if we've 507 00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:26,239 got to get competency scoring around things that are important 508 00:23:26,239 --> 00:23:28,579 to me, like you know, curiosity, like how good are they at 509 00:23:28,669 --> 00:23:30,919 getting deep into client understanding, drive and 510 00:23:30,949 --> 00:23:34,339 commitment. One, I like personally like bravery, are 511 00:23:34,369 --> 00:23:36,589 they going to push themselves to the edge, and are they going to 512 00:23:36,619 --> 00:23:39,379 put themselves in like an ambiguous, scary place? That's 513 00:23:39,499 --> 00:23:41,799 ever more relevant now, because companies are moving so fast, 514 00:23:41,859 --> 00:23:44,259 like you can't just sell the same thing like next week you 515 00:23:44,289 --> 00:23:46,839 did last week, because the products are changing, the speed 516 00:23:46,869 --> 00:23:48,909 of evolution is changing, so we're going to be looking for 517 00:23:48,939 --> 00:23:50,739 different things in what we're looking for here, and we've got 518 00:23:50,739 --> 00:23:53,409 to build the competencies around it, and look for evidence in 519 00:23:53,439 --> 00:23:55,269 those competencies to make sure we're scoring them well. 520 00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:57,550 Bryan Mulry: Well, it seems like part of that process, part of 521 00:23:57,550 --> 00:24:01,530 that interview process should be instead of asking, you know, do 522 00:24:01,770 --> 00:24:03,810 you have any doubts about this person, and have it be a tick 523 00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:06,480 box, have it be a debrief. What doubts do you have about X 524 00:24:06,510 --> 00:24:09,690 person? And really add it into the process of, look, let's 525 00:24:09,780 --> 00:24:12,150 surface these immediately, because a lot of miners will 526 00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:13,920 sort of go through the flow here. They'll go right, I got to 527 00:24:13,950 --> 00:24:15,960 do these interviews. Do they tick all the boxes? Yeah, sure, 528 00:24:16,020 --> 00:24:17,820 they're not. It's not that they're not thinking about it, 529 00:24:17,850 --> 00:24:19,650 it's that it's only taken up 10% of their brain space, but the 530 00:24:19,740 --> 00:24:21,680 biggest decision that they could make for the success of the 531 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,900 team, or the next little while. So, how do we future proof that? 532 00:24:24,290 --> 00:24:26,900 Almost like, as though somebody is at their, is at their lowest, 533 00:24:26,900 --> 00:24:27,680 and running on fumes. 534 00:24:27,889 --> 00:24:29,809 Elaine Tyler: And a red flag for one company can be a green flag 535 00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:32,749 for another. You mean, like, we're not unilaterally saying 536 00:24:32,899 --> 00:24:35,269 somebody is going to be good or bad at sales. It's whether 537 00:24:35,449 --> 00:24:37,339 they're going to be right for this, this company, in the way 538 00:24:37,879 --> 00:24:39,919 you intend to engage with customers, at the pace of your 539 00:24:39,949 --> 00:24:42,069 sales process, and how collaborative you are, and how 540 00:24:42,069 --> 00:24:44,289 many times you get together in the office, and all of those 541 00:24:44,379 --> 00:24:47,619 factors, which make an environment one where someone 542 00:24:47,679 --> 00:24:48,159 can thrive. 543 00:24:48,579 -->

00:24:50,169 Bryan Mulry: Needing a playbook is wonderful if you want to work 544 00:24:50,169 --> 00:24:51,969 at Salesforce, and really bad if you want to work in a startup. 545 00:24:52,059 --> 00:24:54,279 How do you judge that or not? Once we have this process, 546 00:24:54,819 --> 00:24:58,989 people need to do something that is incredibly scary in 2025 They 547 00:24:59,229 --> 00:25:02,369 need to make a decision. Decision, so how do we actually 548 00:25:02,489 --> 00:25:05,759 make this hiring decision, and how do we avoid decision 549 00:25:05,819 --> 00:25:07,109 paralysis? Who wants to go first there? 550 00:25:07,619 --> 00:25:09,149 Elaine Tyler: Well, okay, I think I think certainly, like 551 00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:11,819 referring to the scorecard that I mentioned is part of it, isn't 552 00:25:11,849 --> 00:25:14,549 it? So, like, first of all, is it the right candidate? And then 553 00:25:14,669 --> 00:25:16,649 I think that the best kind of benchmark that I can give to 554 00:25:16,709 --> 00:25:19,319 companies right now is because things are changing so rapidly, 555 00:25:19,649 --> 00:25:21,559 it's trying not to make a decision on what has happened to 556 00:25:21,589 --> 00:25:23,989 your business that day, and it is very difficult, you know. If 557 00:25:24,079 --> 00:25:29,119 you are, as I am, a founder of a small company, sometimes a day 558 00:25:29,449 --> 00:25:31,729 can feel like a really long time, and the day could feel 559 00:25:31,729 --> 00:25:34,519 like a massive success, and also a massive disaster. And it's 560 00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:36,769 very difficult to remove the veil of that when you're trying 561 00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:39,169 to make decisions that are as important as this one. So, I 562 00:25:39,199 --> 00:25:42,009 think really kind of focusing back on the reason why you 563 00:25:42,069 --> 00:25:44,379 decided to interview for the role in the first place, based 564 00:25:44,409 --> 00:25:46,899 upon three months of data from your business that shows 565 00:25:46,959 --> 00:25:49,269 potentially where the gap is in your pipeline, your sales 566 00:25:49,329 --> 00:25:51,729 process, or what it is that you're trying to achieve, and 567 00:25:51,849 --> 00:25:54,909 then understanding this is why we decided to do this. Are we in 568 00:25:54,939 --> 00:25:56,769 the position that this is going to solve this problem? 569 00:25:57,010 --> 00:25:58,900 Bryan Mulry: Yeah, that's a really key point here, is like 570 00:25:59,170 --> 00:26:01,500 we feel like we have to make reactive decisions all day, 571 00:26:01,620 --> 00:26:04,830 every day, but this can't be one of them. We can't decide that 572 00:26:04,890 --> 00:26:07,050 we're going to hire this SDR because we're low on pipeline 573 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,450 now, because it'll take them six months to fill the pipeline. So, 574 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,870 what needs to happen? Yeah, actually actively making the 575 00:26:12,870 --> 00:26:14,580 decision. Tim, you were going to say something there, 576 00:26:14,790 --> 00:26:16,620 Tim Ogle: just backing what Elaine says. The timeline of 577 00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:19,200 these decisions were not six, they're not six month calls, 578 00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:22,820 these are 12 month plus, you know, you're hiring somebody for 579 00:26:22,820 --> 00:26:26,210 the next two, three years, in all likelihood that their likely 580 00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:27,860 lifespan in the role you're hiring, should they be 581 00:26:27,980 --> 00:26:30,200 successful, is going to be two years minimum, and then they may 582 00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:32,630 move on, progress, promotion, whatever, you know, there's 583 00:26:32,810 --> 00:26:35,000 there's things in there that could happen, or they stay in 584 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,740 the role and just keep performing, but either way, it's 585 00:26:36,770 --> 00:26:39,080 a two year call, if you've got the business appetite and the 586 00:26:39,110 --> 00:26:41,800 stability to sort of see at least like 12 months into the 587 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,320 future, then yeah, you should be hiring. And how do we avoid 588 00:26:44,350 --> 00:26:47,230 decision paralysis? I think it's it's making sure that you've got 589 00:26:47,290 --> 00:26:49,450 buy-in at the most senior levels of the organisation, that yeah, 590 00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:51,400 we have this, this is the business case, this is this is 591 00:26:51,580 --> 00:26:53,110 the role, this is what they're going to do, these are the 592 00:26:53,170 --> 00:26:55,630 expectations of the role, and really build that business case 593 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,000 well as to why the hell we're hiring this person. And when you 594 00:26:58,030 --> 00:27:00,180 hire them, we'll talk about this in a bit, but make them a 595 00:27:00,210 --> 00:27:03,300 success, like, set them up to win, but we'll cover that 596 00:27:03,390 --> 00:27:07,080 shortly. I think if you get that senior level buy-in before you 597 00:27:07,140 --> 00:27:09,450 get to the point of, oh, should we, should, shouldn't we make a 598 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,170 decision, then it's easy to make the decision. The second thing 599 00:27:13,470 --> 00:27:16,080 about the decision paralysis is, like, are they the right person, 600 00:27:16,140 --> 00:27:18,450 could we find somebody better, and I think this comes back to 601 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,660 what we were discussing before about the sort of the things 602 00:27:20,750 --> 00:27:23,000 we're actually trying to select based what we're looking for, 603 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,820 and a lot of companies just go, "Oh, I want to say SDR, I want a 604 00:27:25,850 --> 00:27:28,100 salesperson who's worked in my industry, they've sold this many 605 00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:29,750 things, and they've been successful, and they've got five 606 00:27:29,810 -->

00:27:31,670 years experience, and they possibly got a degree. It's a 607 00:27:31,850 --> 00:27:34,700 really vanilla, boring list of things that doesn't tell you 608 00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:36,500 whether the person you're talking to is any good or not. 609 00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:40,190 So, I think it gets back to being really clear as a sales 610 00:27:40,250 --> 00:27:42,460 leader what you actually want in the person, what's the 611 00:27:42,610 --> 00:27:45,160 behaviours and traits and values you want this person to have? 612 00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:46,990 Because if you can get that right and you get a good match 613 00:27:47,140 --> 00:27:49,210 with what you're trying to achieve as an organisation, it 614 00:27:49,330 --> 00:27:51,940 becomes really clear when you found the right person in front 615 00:27:51,970 --> 00:27:55,270 of you that the more that sales leaders can understand actually 616 00:27:55,390 --> 00:27:57,460 what they want in the people, and by that I mean things like 617 00:27:57,490 --> 00:28:01,020 drive, commitment, curiosity, bravery, inquisitiveness, list 618 00:28:01,020 --> 00:28:03,870 the words you want to see, but get clear on what you want to 619 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,420 see and what examples you want to see, or whether demonstrated 620 00:28:06,450 --> 00:28:08,580 curiosity or they've demonstrated that ability to 621 00:28:08,670 --> 00:28:11,280 uncover the unknown in a client, and get past the nice to have, 622 00:28:11,370 --> 00:28:13,410 and just get to the real meaty problems that the client is 623 00:28:13,410 --> 00:28:15,720 trying to fix. Get to that evidence point, and it becomes 624 00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:18,690 so easy to make a decision if you're really woolly on what 625 00:28:18,690 --> 00:28:20,630 you're looking for, and you haven't thought through those 626 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,030 behavioural competencies, decision making is tricky, 627 00:28:23,180 --> 00:28:25,280 because you're basically throwing guards at a board with 628 00:28:25,310 --> 00:28:27,290 a blindfold and hoping to hit 20, but you're not sure. 629 00:28:27,470 --> 00:28:30,140 Elaine Tyler: I think also important in hiring sales people 630 00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:32,300 who the go-to market function, so when you're hiring this 631 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:34,790 person and planning for the future, if you're hiring an SDR, 632 00:28:34,790 --> 00:28:37,160 are you going to have the account executive in place and 633 00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:39,350 ramped up, and you know, in the right place to be able to close 634 00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:41,530 the leads that that person's bringing in, have you got the 635 00:28:41,620 --> 00:28:44,830 customer success to manage those clients that are eventually one, 636 00:28:44,830 --> 00:28:47,260 not necessarily just about this one person, it's about 637 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,690 considering the wider tapestry of what it is trying to build in 638

00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,160 your vision of your go-to market function. 639 00:28:51,429 --> 00:28:52,959 Bryan Mulry: Yeah, hire to make sure you admire when you make 640 00:28:52,989 --> 00:28:54,759 sure you have the capacity that if they're successful, you're 641 00:28:54,789 --> 00:28:57,039 able to actually support the capacity that I guess caused all 642 00:28:57,039 --> 00:28:59,499 the problems when the, in the age of, you know, growth at all 643 00:28:59,649 --> 00:29:02,669 costs, which is kind of gone now, but I should be intrigued 644 00:29:02,699 --> 00:29:05,759 from an offering perspective. What mishaps have you guys seen 645 00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:10,319 from people submitting offers? Because a lot of people almost 646 00:29:10,349 --> 00:29:12,869 like overlook that part of the process. Oh yeah, we'll just, 647 00:29:12,929 --> 00:29:15,029 you know, send an email and it'll, and it'll go through, and 648 00:29:15,089 --> 00:29:17,939 they'll just say yes or no. What are people overlooking when it 649 00:29:17,969 --> 00:29:20,599 comes to that section of the process, and why is it trickier 650 00:29:21,049 --> 00:29:21,649 than what you may think, 651 00:29:21,949 --> 00:29:24,979 Elaine Tyler: having an agent, gotta say it, but basically, 652 00:29:25,099 --> 00:29:27,649 obviously, recruitment agents can add massive value throughout 653 00:29:27,679 --> 00:29:29,419 this process, can't they? Because they could be giving you 654 00:29:29,449 --> 00:29:32,779 a constant view that a candidate will may, may not want to share 655 00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:35,569 with you about how they actually feel about the opportunity, 656 00:29:35,689 --> 00:29:38,989 repetitive processes that they are in, what their timelines are 657 00:29:39,049 --> 00:29:41,139 for decision making, the things that they like, the things that 658 00:29:41,139 --> 00:29:43,269 they don't, the questions that they haven't asked, the points 659 00:29:43,299 --> 00:29:46,089 that maybe they're unsure about, that people like me can advise 660 00:29:46,179 --> 00:29:48,099 hiring managers along the way list, and they're not quite 661 00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:52,479 seeing the progression examples that they're looking for in the 662 00:29:52,629 --> 00:29:54,939 company they want to join, they haven't quite seen how 663 00:29:55,119 --> 00:29:57,219 somebody's earned that commission, so I think that 664 00:29:57,279 --> 00:29:59,679 having an agent is a massive advantage in the offer process 665 00:29:59,769 --> 00:30:01,829 because. Because we could candidly understand where 666 00:30:01,859 --> 00:30:04,049 they're at with other opportunities, understand what 667 00:30:04,049 --> 00:30:06,869 those look like from a from a compensation package, and we can 668 00:30:06,929 --> 00:30:09,929 also be that extra voice that says listen from an objective 669 00:30:09,989 --> 00:30:12,059 perspective, this is what I understand about this company 670 00:30:12,329 --> 00:30:15,449 within the wider industry, this is what you would be joining if 671 00:30:15,509 --> 00:30:17,909 you were to join this company, and quite often at that moment I 672 00:30:17,939 --> 00:30:19,859 do think that people can feel, if they've not had very many 673 00:30:19,919 --> 00:30:22,039 jobs before, not been through the process very many times, 674 00:30:22,459 --> 00:30:26,359 overwhelmed, under qualified to make a decision about what is a 675 00:30:26,509 --> 00:30:29,089 good company to join, because every company has been selling 676 00:30:29,149 --> 00:30:30,979 them, selling them to the candidate in the process. 677 00:30:31,310 --> 00:30:34,190 Tim Ogle: I'm just going to play devil's advocate for a second in 678 00:30:34,190 --> 00:30:36,410 this category. I know you, I know your company know what you 679 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,770 do, you do well, but there are recruitment agents out there who 680 00:30:39,860 --> 00:30:41,710 are literally just trying to force fit both sides of this 681 00:30:41,890 --> 00:30:43,720 game, you know, they're literally trying to force fit 682 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,570 candidate to company, company to candidate, with not always the 683 00:30:46,660 --> 00:30:48,850 best interest of both parts in place, that you know, and the 684 00:30:48,940 --> 00:30:51,190 result of that will be short term deal, short term 685 00:30:51,220 --> 00:30:53,170 relationship with that client, and I know for what you have 686 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,180 long term relationships with the clients, but I have seen it, and 687 00:30:55,180 --> 00:30:57,070 I've seen it done to clients who I work with, and I've seen it, 688 00:30:57,130 --> 00:30:59,230 people try to do it to me when I have been hiring in previous 689 00:30:59,320 --> 00:30:59,530 lives, 690 00:30:59,829 --> 00:31:00,039 Elaine Tyler: totally, 691 00:31:00,429 --> 00:31:02,999 Tim Ogle: so I think it's like be pick a good agent, I think is 692 00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:05,429 probably the better idea. If you are going to use an agency, pick 693 00:31:05,489 --> 00:31:05,909 a good one, 694 00:31:06,030 --> 00:31:07,830 Elaine Tyler: bet your agent, meet them in person. I try and 695 00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:09,900 meet every client that we've never engaged with before in 696 00:31:09,930 --> 00:31:13,410 person, and try and join the dots of like who they might know 697 00:31:13,620 --> 00:31:16,080 that I've worked with, so that they get a third party reference 698 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,410 and understand did they make a hire from from with our aid that 699 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,320 was good. But yeah, bet your agent. Absolutely. 700 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,570 Tim Ogle: I think the other thing to add, Brian, is the 701 00:31:23,570 --> 00:31:26,210 offer doesn't start with the offer. It's a bit like sales. 702 00:31:27,050 --> 00:31:28,700 You've been testing the candidate all the way

through. 703 00:31:28,790 --> 00:31:31,010 You probably had a conversation early on in the exercise about 704 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,890 what are you looking for, what you're hoping to get. See, and 705 00:31:33,950 --> 00:31:35,390 the more you probe and explore that, the more you can 706 00:31:35,420 --> 00:31:37,250 understand about what they're trying to achieve as a person. 707 00:31:37,370 --> 00:31:39,980 So, when it comes down to the offer point, you know exactly 708 00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:42,520 what to pitch and how to pitch it, and I know I wouldn't send 709 00:31:42,550 --> 00:31:44,890 an email. I mean, I would, but that's not the first step. The 710 00:31:44,890 --> 00:31:47,980 first step is to ring them up or book in a call, either way, but 711 00:31:48,250 --> 00:31:50,710 communicate verbally or in face to face, but verbally is 712 00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:52,720 probably more practical because of the speed you've got to work 713 00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:55,420 at, and talk it through, and go, look, this is what you're 714 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,490 looking for, this is what we're able to offer, this is a 715 00:31:57,550 --> 00:32:00,270 situation. What do you think? Get instant feedback, because 716 00:32:00,780 --> 00:32:03,000 probably what you're offering is not necessarily dead and buried 717 00:32:03,060 --> 00:32:05,280 there, there's probably some room for manoeuvre, and there 718 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,530 might be some other things in there which you can't always 719 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,150 second guess, and it's not just about salary, 720 00:32:09,509 --> 00:32:11,279 Bryan Mulry: yeah, it's getting deep into personalising the 721 00:32:11,399 --> 00:32:13,649 offers as well, as you know, knowing what levers you can and 722 00:32:13,769 --> 00:32:16,739 can't pull on that side, gosh, there's a lot in that, but let's 723 00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:19,619 say everything's gone well, okay, so let's say we've got a 724 00:32:19,619 --> 00:32:23,509 talent pool, we've met people in the wild, we like them, and a 725 00:32:23,569 --> 00:32:25,069 job has come up, and we've interviewed a bunch of people, 726 00:32:25,069 --> 00:32:29,149 and we find that we've had a process where we knew what we 727 00:32:29,209 --> 00:32:31,279 were looking for, we knew the competencies that we wanted, we 728 00:32:31,429 --> 00:32:34,849 knew, I guess, not only what we wanted, but what we didn't want, 729 00:32:34,849 --> 00:32:37,489 and we're able to match that with a candidate, we second 730 00:32:37,609 --> 00:32:40,009 guessed ourselves internally to make sure we found our own 731 00:32:40,099 --> 00:32:45,549 biases, we made the conscious decision to make a decision. 732 00:32:45,669 --> 00:32:47,409 Sorry, that's a key piece in the sort of want to highlight. In 733 00:32:47,439 --> 00:32:49,659 order to hire and make a hiring decision, you also have to 734 00:32:49,689 --> 00:32:51,579 decide that you're going to make a decision. Now, that almost 735 00:32:51,579 --> 00:32:53,709 needs to be very explicit here. It's a question that comes 736 00:32:53,829 --> 00:32:56,109 earlier in the process of, are we willing to make a decision on 737 00:32:56,139 --> 00:32:59,559 this, or are we just fishing? Then, once you make the offer, 738 00:32:59,829 --> 00:33:01,229 we then need to get into the next piece. Now, before I get 739 00:33:01,229 --> 00:33:02,069 into the next piece, Tim, 740 00:33:02,310 --> 00:33:04,560 Tim Ogle: it's an important point. Once you've decided to 741 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,350 make an offer, move really fast. Candidates are not good, 742 00:33:07,410 --> 00:33:10,020 candidates aren't around for long, so go quick. If your 743 00:33:10,140 --> 00:33:12,210 selection, the whole selection process is too long, you're 744 00:33:12,210 --> 00:33:14,880 going to lose candidates. You've got to be fast. Speed, speed of 745 00:33:14,910 --> 00:33:17,790 decision, speed of like how you do this, decisiveness, you know, 746 00:33:17,910 --> 00:33:20,190 go with it. But build the process while you'll get there. 747 00:33:20,369 --> 00:33:22,249 Bryan Mulry: See, we've all been decisive. Someone that we maybe 748 00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:24,949 make an offer, someone accepts it. Now, what? How do we avoid 749 00:33:25,369 --> 00:33:27,379 just giving them a laptop on a notebook and going, "All right, 750 00:33:27,709 --> 00:33:29,539 you've got your job, you got your job's bec, give me a 3060, 751 00:33:29,779 --> 00:33:33,319 90, and let's see what happens. How do we make sure that the 752 00:33:33,949 --> 00:33:38,329 beginning of their time in the job is as thoughtful and 753 00:33:38,479 --> 00:33:42,429 impressive and authentic to the business, as we've just spent 754 00:33:42,489 --> 00:33:44,199 all of our time on the interview process. Elaine, you want to go 755 00:33:44,199 --> 00:33:44,439 first? To 756 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,150 Elaine Tyler: yeah, I think one thing that Nelson McCurban, a 757 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,310 fluencer, if you know her, I think one of the things that she 758 00:33:51,610 --> 00:33:53,530 said, I think it's particularly relevant, probably for more 759 00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:56,590 junior people in those in their early stages of their career, is 760 00:33:56,650 --> 00:33:58,870 I think she had had everybody sign like a like a kind of 761 00:33:59,140 --> 00:34:02,670 office code of conduct, really, just to set the benchmark of how 762 00:34:02,850 --> 00:34:05,670 everybody operated together as a team, and it was like these are 763 00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:10,050 a set of ways of working that we've all bought into that kind 764 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,020 of show how we show up for each other every day in the office, 765 00:34:13,590 --> 00:34:16,320 and I think that, like, starting that really early in someone's 766 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,430 mind is

better than trying to course correct later on, where 767 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,020 it feels like that candidate's not quite hitting the norms that 768 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:25,790 you would like to promote to have a really effective 769 00:34:25,850 --> 00:34:28,640 workforce, so I think that's like a good starting point, like 770 00:34:28,730 --> 00:34:30,020 first week type activity. 771 00:34:30,349 --> 00:34:33,799 Bryan Mulry: Yeah, like call to contact and expected expected 772 00:34:33,829 --> 00:34:35,359 behaviour, expected attitudes type thing. 773 00:34:35,570 --> 00:34:36,950 Elaine Tyler: I think welcome meetings with everybody in the 774 00:34:36,980 --> 00:34:39,440 team as well, so you know that the candidate gets like a 775 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,190 holistic understanding of who everybody is in the business, 776 00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:44,260 what the different departments do, obviously depends on the 777 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,140 size of the company, but you know, kind of demystifies, and 778 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,600 it also opens up the channels of communication. I think, like, 779 00:34:49,690 --> 00:34:53,320 real clear timeline set out, so we use monday.com and when we 780 00:34:53,350 --> 00:34:55,450 have a new starter, they have their own, you know, Monday 781 00:34:55,570 --> 00:34:57,820 board that's on there, that's just kind of showing what 782 00:34:57,850 --> 00:34:59,950 they're going to be doing, like week by week, and the outcomes. 783 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,580 That are expected from a learning perspective over the 784 00:35:02,580 --> 00:35:05,580 first 12 weeks, so I think that's like a good start to get 785 00:35:05,610 --> 00:35:05,970 them going. 786 00:35:06,209 --> 00:35:08,519 Bryan Mulry: I like that idea of having a set of expected tasks 787 00:35:08,699 --> 00:35:13,529 by somebody to begin with, but I'm a to-do list guy, so that 788 00:35:13,529 --> 00:35:15,689 would actually be particularly intimidated to some other kinds 789 00:35:15,689 --> 00:35:15,959 of people. 790 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,450 Elaine Tyler: A buddy system as well, so that they've got that 791 00:35:18,570 --> 00:35:20,810 kind of go-to person within the business that can be their 792 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,300 person, you know, when they want to ask the questions that might, 793 00:35:23,540 --> 00:35:25,880 that you need to know the answer to, like, where's the loops, but 794 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,980 you know, you don't, you don't necessarily want to ask, you 795 00:35:27,980 --> 00:35:30,470 know, somebody who's maybe your boss, or whatever, so somebody 796 00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:32,660 for those type of questions, you know, you know what I mean, 797 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:34,580 somebody who's like on a peer-to-peer level, who take, 798 00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:37,100 who can show you where to go for lunch on your first day, and 799 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:37,640 that type of stuff, 800 00:35:37,850 --> 00:35:39,170 Bryan Mulry: someone you can ask the stupid questions 801 00:35:39,710 --> 00:35:41,410 Elaine Tyler: to, yeah, there's no stupid questions, though. But 802 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:41,800 yes, 803 00:35:43,689 --> 00:35:44,649 Bryan Mulry: Tim, what do you think on this? 804 00:35:44,860 --> 00:35:46,630 Tim Ogle: I build on where Elaine's gone with this, because 805 00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:48,430 there's some very practical steps out, and I agree 806 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,100 completely with all of them. I think the place where we can 807 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,220 build on that, though, is it's not like week one, week two, 808 00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:56,620 week three. I mean, obviously, make that amazing, like day one, 809 00:35:56,890 --> 00:35:59,470 do give them a laptop, give them a phone if that's required, and 810 00:35:59,470 --> 00:36:01,440 whatever else, you know, just make sure that stuff's ready to 811 00:36:01,500 --> 00:36:04,200 go, is housekeeping, but I think it's, how do we then take them 812 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,630 from the first few weeks, when it's all very exciting on 813 00:36:06,660 --> 00:36:08,730 honeymoon, and like, oh, this is new, and this is that, and you 814 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,310 know, it's all just reading, learning, exploring, is when the 815 00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:12,900 rubber hits the road, and you have to start actually doing the 816 00:36:13,020 --> 00:36:17,070 work, and that's where you come in as a boss, as a leader, and 817 00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:20,160 you've got to be good, you've got to first of all, you've got 818 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,100 to set expectations, like, you've got to be really clear 819 00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:24,560 what you expect this role to be. And then I think it's good to 820 00:36:24,590 --> 00:36:27,320 sort of look at the big picture, which might be like this is the 821 00:36:27,350 --> 00:36:29,810 next six months, but then break it down into smaller pieces, 822 00:36:29,870 --> 00:36:31,790 like, okay, so in the next week, what we're going to try and do, 823 00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:33,470 what's the achievement we're trying to get to, and break it 824 00:36:33,590 --> 00:36:36,230 down into smaller achievable moments, which don't feel quite 825 00:36:36,290 --> 00:36:38,990 so overwhelming, and then regular checking around those, 826 00:36:39,110 --> 00:36:42,700 those sort of weekly cadence type objectives, goals, micro 827 00:36:42,730 --> 00:36:44,980 goals, whatever you want to call them, and that regular check in 828 00:36:45,070 --> 00:36:48,460 will be very much around like, okay, how did it go, what 829 00:36:48,550 --> 00:36:50,920 worked, what didn't work, what did we learn from that, what do 830 00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:53,620 we need to change next week, and I think that last question, what 831 00:36:53,620 --> 00:36:56,680 do we need to change next week,

what is a question of getting 832 00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:58,390 them to reflect on what happened, what did they learn 833 00:36:58,450 --> 00:37:00,430 from it, okay, therefore, how do I make that better next time I 834 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,520 see it next week, and do it again, and if it is a role like 835 00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:04,650 an SDR role, where you are going to be probably hitting the 836 00:37:04,650 --> 00:37:06,750 phones relatively quickly, if that's what is required, or 837 00:37:06,780 --> 00:37:09,330 you're going to be doing email outreach, or a mixture of all of 838 00:37:09,330 --> 00:37:11,400 those things. As a leader, you can't just sit there and 839 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,410 delegate all of that. You can't just go, "Well, I told them 840 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,140 their target is this many meetings a week, can we have to 841 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,390 make this many calls, and all those sort of things, because if 842 00:37:18,420 --> 00:37:20,790 you do that, the person may be feeling completely overwhelmed. 843 00:37:20,820 --> 00:37:22,580 There may be like other underlying factors that are 844 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,230 getting in the way, so that's where you got to take the time 845 00:37:24,260 --> 00:37:27,200 to go. Okay, how did it go? What worked? What didn't work? What 846 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,870 do we need to change? How could we adapt that? And take once 847 00:37:29,930 --> 00:37:32,930 you've gone past the setting the ground rules of the job, is then 848 00:37:32,990 --> 00:37:36,170 moving into a coach and being a being a leader as a coach, and 849 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,650 helping those people, helping your new recruit start to find 850 00:37:39,710 --> 00:37:42,460 their way and build confidence. If you don't take the coach 851 00:37:42,550 --> 00:37:45,040 approach, there's a risk you just become a superhero, as in 852 00:37:45,340 --> 00:37:47,680 the boss becomes a superhero in the team, and everybody looks at 853 00:37:47,740 --> 00:37:50,140 you, and everybody, they fix everything all the time, and 854 00:37:50,140 --> 00:37:52,450 therefore you never get this in peril team. And I think the more 855 00:37:52,510 --> 00:37:54,940 that you can coach, you turn it into a coaching relationship 856 00:37:54,970 --> 00:37:56,950 with your new recruit, the better. The faster that happens, 857 00:37:56,980 --> 00:37:59,980 the better. Not surprising, we're all part of representing 858 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,670 MySalesCoach here, you know. So that's kind of a lead for 859 00:38:02,670 --> 00:38:05,550 that. So we do coach leaders to be coaches, so you know that's 860 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,310 one of the things we do do here, but it's in terms of that ramp 861 00:38:08,370 --> 00:38:10,920 up period, that's that's critical. I think the other 862 00:38:11,070 --> 00:38:13,290 thing, as a leader, it comes back to the behavioural 863 00:38:13,350

--> 00:38:16,470 expectations and the competency expectations. You can't just 864 00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:18,720 manage on the outputs here, you've got to start tracking the 865 00:38:18,810 --> 00:38:21,080 inputs, and the inputs are things like attitude, 866 00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:23,900 commitment, desire, bravery the things that are going to be 867 00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:26,750 helping these people succeed? And then to provide feedback, 868 00:38:27,530 --> 00:38:30,290 you can't just ignore like things if they're not working. 869 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,270 If they are working well, provide feedback like praise, 870 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,250 and that's brilliant. You've done a grazing job this week, 871 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,320 but even if things aren't going well, provide feedback on that 872 00:38:36,410 --> 00:38:39,980 too. So be balanced and don't be frightened of providing that 873 00:38:40,070 --> 00:38:41,980 feedback early on, because that's where I see lots of 874 00:38:42,010 --> 00:38:45,010 people fail on bringing people up, is like you just, they're 875 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,110 not committed enough to providing that early stage 876 00:38:47,260 --> 00:38:50,320 feedback, like my worried they might upset them, or they might 877 00:38:50,620 --> 00:38:53,320 person might leave, and it's like, yeah, but if you don't do 878 00:38:53,410 --> 00:38:55,480 it, they're never going to change, so therefore provide 879 00:38:55,570 --> 00:38:58,870 feedback, but with a degree of empathy and caution and 880 00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:00,310 gentleness, certainly to start with, 881 00:39:00,490 --> 00:39:02,520 Bryan Mulry: an element of this is that it's almost like adding 882 00:39:02,970 --> 00:39:06,090 authenticity and trust and brutal honesty throughout all 883 00:39:06,150 --> 00:39:08,490 stages of the of the cycle, breathing brutally honest with 884 00:39:08,670 --> 00:39:11,220 what you want, why you're doing it, that you're making a 885 00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:13,920 decision, and then at this point being brutally honest with 886 00:39:14,130 --> 00:39:17,190 here's what you need to know for the role, here's what we expect 887 00:39:17,310 --> 00:39:20,760 of you, and I need you to be honest with me as to what 888 00:39:20,820 --> 00:39:23,210 feedback you know, do we need to change this onboarding process, 889 00:39:23,540 --> 00:39:25,910 but also, hey, you're doing really well here, but not well 890 00:39:26,060 --> 00:39:28,190 here. There's a lot in that, but I really like what you said 891 00:39:28,250 --> 00:39:31,700 there about there is a transition from managing someone 892 00:39:31,730 --> 00:39:34,130 in a process to becoming a coach. It's there's a transition 893 00:39:34,190 --> 00:39:36,800 from sort of onboarding them and teaching them the ropes to 894 00:39:36,860 --> 00:39:39,470 teaching them how to pull those ropes, and that is usually where 895 00:39:39,530 --> 00:39:41,800 people sort of either become coaches or deploy external 896 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,360 coaches. We have covered a lot today. Okay, so looking at the 897 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,390 whole process, there's an element of this where we need to 898 00:39:49,420 --> 00:39:52,960 make sure that it is, it is currently extremely costly for 899 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,650 to miss hire a salesperson, so there's a lot of pressure on 900 00:39:56,740 --> 00:39:59,860 people to either get it right or and make sure they're doing it. 901 00:40:00,180 --> 00:40:03,840 In a correct, thoughtful way, in 2025 to begin with, we need to 902 00:40:03,870 --> 00:40:07,680 build up a talent pool, and the ways to do that is be as 903 00:40:08,010 --> 00:40:11,460 authentic as you can, as meeting people in the wild, building up 904 00:40:11,460 --> 00:40:14,460 a social brand, like, like they do at Venetrix, making sure 905 00:40:14,490 --> 00:40:18,030 you've got clear referral methodologies in place, or clear 906 00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:20,930 referral paths in place, you're proactively going to events, 907 00:40:20,930 --> 00:40:24,050 you're proactively meeting with good people, and being authentic 908 00:40:24,140 --> 00:40:27,380 is who you need and why you need them. Once you have that, then 909 00:40:27,590 --> 00:40:31,850 you then lead into the sort of selection process stage, and at 910 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,040 that, you need to be thoughtful. You need to put the time, 911 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,250 energy, and effort into what do what problem do we need to 912 00:40:37,340 --> 00:40:39,740 solve, and what core competencies, behaviours do we 913 00:40:39,860 --> 00:40:43,660 need to see from a candidate in order to tell us that they're 914 00:40:43,690 --> 00:40:47,590 the right person for that, then we also need to talk about who, 915 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,530 what is the reason for this role, and who's going to support 916 00:40:50,890 --> 00:40:53,530 this role in this process. Make sure you are surfacing your red 917 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,990 flags, make sure you are proactively surfacing your 918 00:40:56,110 --> 00:40:59,170 doubts, the good ones and the bad ones. And then it comes 919 00:40:59,230 --> 00:41:01,080 making a decision, and then in order to make a decision 920 00:41:01,380 --> 00:41:03,630 originally to proactively decide that you're going to make that 921 00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:06,420 decision in the first place, but also don't react to what's 922 00:41:06,450 --> 00:41:08,670 happened recently. Make sure that you're making a long-term 923 00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:11,010 decision with a long-term lens, which is really, really 924 00:41:11,070 --> 00:41:13,560 difficult, rather than just reacting to what's happening in 925 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,290 your business in the short term. And this idea of can we find 926 00:41:16,350 --> 00:41:19,410 someone better needs to come earlier in the process rather 927 00:41:19,410 --> 00:41:21,380 than later in the process, because you should know when you 928 00:41:21,470 --> 00:41:24,890 found someone who can do the job. Lastly, then you gotta, you 929 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,050 gotta onboard them once you've made an incredible offer, you've 930 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,030 made the decision, and everything has gone well. You 931 00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:31,910 gotta demystify the role, be incredibly thoughtful as the 932 00:41:32,030 --> 00:41:34,760 first 3060 90 days of this person's life, but also give 933 00:41:34,820 --> 00:41:37,370 them clear expectations. Here's what I expect of you, here's 934 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,320 what you can expect of me, and then give them a buddy in case 935 00:41:39,350 --> 00:41:42,190 they have any questions that they don't want to ask the CEO 936 00:41:42,430 --> 00:41:44,110 and CRO of this business. 937 00:41:44,319 --> 00:41:45,609 Tom Boston: Thanks for listening. There's more where 938 00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:48,459 that came from. So, don't forget to like and subscribe. Our 939 00:41:48,489 --> 00:41:51,129 mission at MySalesCoach is to help revenue leaders survive 940 00:41:51,249 --> 00:41:55,239 sales by building elite sales teams, fixing their win rates, 941 00:41:55,749 --> 00:41:59,319 lifting quarter attainment, and coaching their teams better. Go 942 00:41:59,379 --> 00:42:02,309 and check out our website@mysalescoach.com to find 943 00:42:02,369 --> 00:42:04,889 out how we're supporting leaders like you right now.