النص الكامل لحلقة Diversifying Beyond Third-Party Collections | Larry Costa | Capital Management Services | Ep. 299

00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:09.360 Plus, it's additional revenue. 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:11.840 It's revenue that you didn't anticipate. 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:15.680 And that's that's been a success for us this year, success for us last year. 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:16.639 That's what I mean. 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:21.040 You gotta go to your organizations with your familiar, say, we can do this. 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:23.519 If you can't, learn how to do it. 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:25.040 It's not that hard. 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:32.399 Well, from a collection agency standpoint, I think organizations have been less likely to break into new products because it is such a differentiator. 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:46.560 And you've established kind of two sets of train tracks within your organization, one that's third-party debt collection and one that can basically solve whatever problem my client has right now that we can throw bodies and technology at. 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:48.800 Like we're here to provide that solution. 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:58.079 What kind of mechanisms do you have to build into your organization to enable that type of flexibility and let's say motion between projects? 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:00.959 Well, first of all, we have a phenomenal operational leader. 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:03.439 Stan Moore is our president of operations. 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:05.600 You gotta have a Stan Moore. 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:08.720 Okay, none of this works without without Stanley Moore. 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:21.360 Because he because he is such tremendous skill set in all aspects of this business, he knows how to train people into one, you have to have a strong, you gotta keep these people trained. 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:27.519 You've got to obviously have a good recruiting team because you you you gotta kinda always have that net out there. 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:33.360 From a technology perspective, I'm I mean, the these first party episodic works, you're on the client's technology. 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:38.480 So you don't necessarily have to have a strong technology, but you have to have a good technology team to do these integrations. 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:45.439 Or you gotta have a good help desk support and good you know, background technology teams to do this because you're just connecting their systems. 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:53.120 So it's it's good to have, you know, you're gonna need strong internet pipes and you know, a good telecommunications back platform, which most guys have. 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:58.000 But I mean the real key is is having this operational excellence. 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:00.319 And you you know, it's that's really what you need. 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:06.399 You need operational excellence, you need strong telecommunication background, you need decent systems, but you know, a good recruiting team. 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:10.240 But again, having that operational excellence is what's going to get you there.

00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:17.360 If they believe in your collections team and they see the results and they believe in your leadership team, they're a transition team. 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:19.519 They know that you're you got things tight. 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:27.279 Well, it sounds like there's a lot of opportunity that exists out there as you start to connect with the client and actually have a discussion. 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:33.199 I'm here to solve problems, and you're able to leverage some of the ingredients to your success already, right? 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:51.120 Your success as a third-party debt collection operation has been your ability to service those clients, technology, your recruiting capabilities, and the apparatus that you've constructed to be able to manage that process to, I mean, to bring in a hundred people in a short period of time for short period work. 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:55.439 I mean, that's got to be a lot of stress on the HR department. 00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:01.120 How have you increased the let's say resiliency structure of that department? 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.240 It's you know, CIS has been our model for a while. 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:06.480 I mean, we've been doing episodic work for a long time. 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:08.480 So we've got that built-in capability. 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:14.000 So as you build your HR and recruiting team, you got to make sure that because it is, it's it's a challenge. 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:16.160 Okay, it's absolutely a challenge. 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:21.360 But again, if you want remember, we also do a lot of first party work too. 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:26.319 So we got third party collections, we got first party collections, and I've got this episodic customer service work. 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:27.839 That's the key. 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:36.480 So you know, so if I'm talking to an agency, if you're let's say I'm talking to a third-party agency, yeah, it's hard to do this third party, obviously you want to get in the first party. 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:40.879 We had this discussion last year because you you proved your claiming out of the client. 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.759 So you want to get in the first party work. 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.759 Then from the first part of work, then you move into the episodic work or the other customer service works. 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:52.079 Because if you can build that report with your client, they don't want to manage extra vendors. 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.839 It's more cost and more, more, you know, more strained on them. 00:07:56.399 --> 00:07:58.240 So that's really the key. 00:07:58.560 --> 00:07:59.439 I'll give you another example. 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:03.519 We we do first product work for a fintech and we're doing their credit card work. 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:04.000 Okay. 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:05.920 First part of collection, it's a free charge. 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:07.439 Did such a good job with

them. 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:09.040 Now they're giving us a personal loan work. 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:10.160 That's what I mean. 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:16.160 Is by showing the expertise in whatever segment you're in, you're gonna get additional work. 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:22.000 Again, because why wouldn't they give you the business if you have the expertise? 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:24.800 And that comes from again, with that to our operations guy. 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:29.199 He's phenomenal, but he keeps his agency, you know, he watches the productivity. 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:31.920 You know, Stan manages an outlier behavior. 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:34.960 If you got it's easy to bring outliers up, right? 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:41.679 You got a couple outliers, bring them up, that that's gonna certainly impact your results tremendously. 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:44.799 So it comes down to operational excellence. 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:49.600 Yeah, yeah, you gotta do some marketing, you gotta get in front of your client, prove your value. 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:52.000 Communicate with them. 00:08:52.080 --> 00:09:00.320 And I I I I like your approach, Larry, and in the as you talk about the operational excellence and and being able, I mean, success breeds success. 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:15.360 So if you're operating well for somebody and you're getting something done and you're already cleared through procurement and they've already got all the headaches out of the way, because the larger the organization, the more difficult it is for them to go through any of those processes, RFIs, RFPs, et cetera. 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:24.080 So they're looking for the lowest common denominator, the fastest solution that gets them an acceptable or or a high quality result. 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:31.200 As you look at like the that HR piece, and we've talked a little bit about the technology, so you just have to connect those systems. 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:43.679 Are a lot of those projects similar for the same client, or are they you're now you're dealing with so many different systems, meaning if I already work for bank A on third-party collections, is it easier for me to connect for the first party work? 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.480 Is it easier for me to connect for the episodic work? 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:50.639 How does that look like what's that technical strain look like on your organization? 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:54.000 Well, most banks are like five server T Sys. 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:56.879 There's not that many origination systems out there, right? 00:09:57.440 --> 00:09:59.279 Black Knight from Organic Work, right? 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:01.360 So again, you're just gonna connect. 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:03.679 Okay, it's usually a desktop application. 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:07.840 Everybody's gonna go to B state download desk application and strain. 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:14.639 So that's what I say, you have a strong telecommunications network, big big internet pipes, redundant big internet pipes, right? 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:16.720 So again, everybody has that out there. 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:18.159 So that's that's not the challenge. 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:28.320 Here's the challenge is communicating to your client, get in front of your client, showing the operational expertise, and then convincing them that you you can handle them over. 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:29.840 Then you gotta you gotta deliver. 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:31.600 You know, and that's that's what makes us different. 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:32.080 We delivered. 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:32.960 Isn't that the key? 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:34.159 We remembered, right? 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:38.559 We you know we had we had a really good year last year, and we're having a really good year this year. 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.519 We we last year and a half we had responded to five RPs, we won everyone. 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:49.279 So we had a we had a bank that we were doing personal loan from, they sent out an RP for credit card, we won that bit. 00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:58.240 There's another bank we weren't doing business with, can they heard of our reputation, they've heard of the different things we can do, we show the RP, we show all of our capabilities, we won that bit. 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:01.440 We picked up a couple of FinTech clients, same thing. 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:09.600 So, you know, success for your success, but when you can show a bank that you can do more on just third-party collections, you add values for that. 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:12.960 Okay, that again, that's one less vendor they gotta they gotta put on. 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:14.480 That's that you can do, excuse me. 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:20.399 That you can do multiple things for that bank, you know, just create more and more reporting. 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:21.840 It makes you more valuable. 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:23.679 Well, then let's face it. 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:25.600 That differentiate point of being a good partner. 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:28.639 But different how do you differentiate yourself for an out third party, right? 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:30.240 You know, technology, right? 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:32.639 Guys that don't want digital are doing pretty well. 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:33.840 But let me ask you that. 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:36.960 Is that really the solution that everybody is making it out to be? 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:46.000 Is the technology going to be the only answer, or is the technology mostly going to be used or in its most valuable way to empower those live people? 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:50.720 So you still need these folks, exception management, and all of this. 00:11:50.879 --> 00:12:03.759 And to be perfectly frank, if the banks were capable of deploying putting up and deploying AI fast enough that's they might start looking in that direction, but they can't they can't accept that level of risk.

00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:06.639 They still need those live people to manage these processes. 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:10.000 But you need technology, you have to have a strong digital platform. 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:13.039 Every one of my banks asked me what I'm doing with AI. 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:14.879 What are we doing with AI? 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:16.399 A lot of people talk about AI. 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.200 Look, agent assist, that's gonna be big. 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:21.440 Bots are gonna be big. 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:23.360 Okay, I see those. 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.679 But really, what you need AI for is you get all this data, right? 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:34.399 You get from your dialing platform, from your system of record, from your email platform, from your text platform, you get all this data, right? 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:38.080 Then you need AI to say, okay, on this group of customers, what do I do next? 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:42.240 This responds to this type, to not only this type of text. 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:43.360 Is it MMS? 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:44.639 Is it RMS, right? 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:47.279 This group responds to this kind of email with this kind of offer. 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:49.360 That's the next step for AI, right? 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.960 And then agent assist, I think, is big because it helps document the notes. 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:54.480 It gives you more productive time. 00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:01.679 So we've been able to do on the third party side, we're we're deploying technology, we're able to collect more money with the same amount of people. 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:03.759 That's what digital's done for us, right? 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:05.840 People, people want to self-service, they can self-service. 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:07.919 People want to respond to text and respond to the tax. 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:10.720 We still, you know, we still got a lot of people calling in. 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:13.840 Wash is still a significant portion of our payments. 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:16.240 But so it's the balance, right? 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:22.080 But look, there's digital agencies out there that look, there are digital agencies out there that are doing really, really well. 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:27.120 So I'm not here to say that digital isn't the way, because there's guys out there that are doing really well. 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:31.039 There's groups that are doing really well because they're slow to adapt. 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:33.039 Issues are doing it in the mix. 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:36.799 I don't think there's digital money is the solution. 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:38.080 That's that's the key. 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:41.519 If you're working on big issues like we do, they're slow to adapt. 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:43.679 They're not letting us do a lot of this stuff yet. 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:44.080 Okay. 00:13:44.399 --> 00:14:00.000 No, but they want to know how you're

looking at it, and they want to better understand for themselves, you know, how maybe they need to be looking at it because drive I mean, I they're looking at the Well look, driving a uh a bank's collections department and driving a collection agency are two different things. 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.519 It's like a speed boat versus a giant cruise liner. 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:05.440 You you have to prepare to turn left. 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:10.639 You can't just turn left like we can as more nimble, smaller, you know, privately owned businesses. 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:12.480 The world just a little different for it. 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:14.559 Again, this is not a new message. 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:16.000 Everybody out there knows this. 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:23.440 I'm just reiterating what you and I have been talking about from years that you've got to have a digital component, it's gotta be a strong component, but you better have skilled people. 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:26.639 An inbound call comes in, you you know, you gotta close that call. 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:27.360 Agreed. 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:30.000 I I think that incoming piece is extremely important. 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:38.960 And as you're transitioning, I think a lot of the same skill sets apply as you start looking at these other types of work that you're doing, right? 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:40.559 The skill sets remain the same. 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:44.639 I I start thinking about it as the economies of scope here, right? 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:57.039 It's the same reason McDonald sells breakfasts, not because they set out to be a breakfast restaurant, but they had the real estate and the kitchen and the people and the hiring and the supply line and all the other things that they needed to be successful. 00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:03.919 So why not move into that space leveraging that economies of scope and the assets and resources already at play? 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:05.759 I think you've looked at this very much the same way. 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:10.000 I want to throw a question back at you, though, because you got a the industry. 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:13.440 So I think there's also a component where people are afraid of the internet. 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:16.320 You know, people are afraid of it getting hacked. 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:19.200 And so I think that's another reason why you got to have that skilled aging. 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:19.840 What do you find? 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:22.000 Because I I don't know, I'm not as close to it as you are. 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:25.440 Fraud is that fear vector out there significantly. 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.320 Like fraud is up there, and so fear is up there. 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:38.480 And if we look at the last couple of years, you know, one of the the number one or or top two every year in terms of concerns, even for the organizations themselves, is data security. 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:44.240 Like that is

a forefront, and consumers are being bombarded with fake calls all day. 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:50.639 I know I've got three different spam blockers on my phone, and my office line doesn't even ring to me anymore. 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:55.919 It forces a voicemail that I get via text message that I can listen to and read, right? 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:57.120 But that's what it's turned into. 00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:08.960 You've had to put up these levels of walls around you because of the just sheer volume of bad communications, which means that we have to do more to stand out as good communicators. 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:13.919 It's working with our carriers to make sure that we're flagged appropriately, right? 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:17.360 And that we're appropriately tagged on all of our communication channels. 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:24.000 It's looking at our domain reputation scores and managing that process so that our emails are actively being delivered. 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:28.559 I think organizations over the last 10 years, a lot of them built the same rails. 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:38.399 They can send emails, they can send text messages, but it's that orchestration piece that you were talking about that is the, I'm gonna call it the secret sauce. 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:41.039 Like that's where the next thing is coming. 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.000 And you also had mentioned the agent assist. 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:53.600 And I think that is one of the biggest value ads from an artificial intelligence usage standpoint across customer experience collections. 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:55.600 I mean, really the whole spectrum. 00:16:55.759 --> 00:17:02.080 I think that's a very important part for us to continue to look at because the more that we can it's funny. 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:08.319 I was having this conversation with a friend this morning where I said, you know, lawyers and LLMs are kind of similar, right? 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:14.480 Like they charge you by the word and you're feeding them, if you don't feed them the right context, you're not going to get the right answer. 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:19.599 Well, you know, I think it's kind of the same thing when you're thinking about how we're operating on the floor. 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:28.960 Like how much context can we give to that agent so that they can make real-time smart decisions that are beneficial to them, the organization, and the consumer. 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:41.759 Because that live person there managing that negotiation is where we can add so much more value as an industry to the process and overall to the credit ecosystem. 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:49.200 So I realize that might be a little bit of a roundabout way to answer it, but that's kind of what I'm seeing from my seat right now. 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:55.200 And there's some really good research out there to support the idea of the super agent, right? 00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:59.279 You you had mentioned reducing the amount of time it takes to take notes. 00:17:59.440 --> 00:17:59.680 Right? 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:08.799 You you can wrap up a call a lot faster and you can do it systematically in a way in which those notes are now more searchable, retrievable. 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:25.519 You're creating a series or a data set of actions and intelligence that are now being collected, and it doesn't have to be done manually where everybody sitting in this row of collectors has their own shorthand for follow-up and whatever the terminology is. 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:33.599 But even at that, the terminology that's used across the industry in different shops can be wildly different, even just down the street. 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:35.200 There's no doubt about it. 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:37.519 So yeah, that's that's the things we're looking at. 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:44.799 But you know, we look everybody else, we've got to keep our eye on what's developing digitally stay in step. 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.160 But again, having skilled agents is really, really important. 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:52.960 Because like I said, I like I don't I hate doing anything online. 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:56.079 I do it because I have to, you know, and it's efficient. 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:58.880 But I don't, you know, I triple check everything I do. 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:04.160 I make sure, you know, my investment in I make sure it's I'm totally authenticated and all that stuff. 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:06.640 But you know people get hacked all the time. 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:07.839 All the time. 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:11.920 So you know, I think there's always gonna be a place for that skilled agent. 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:23.599 And like I said, issuers are again are slow to you know, I think they're moving more rapidly now, but there's still a couple issuers out there that don't know what you email or text. 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:26.079 They don't, they don't let us. 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:27.759 There's still a couple of mouth there. 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.599 It's crazy to me because that's what the customer ultimately wants, right? 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:33.440 Like that is what they're looking for. 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:37.599 And I don't know if it's the bank saying I've already sent enough texts and emails and they didn't respond. 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:39.680 Like, how why would they respond to yours? 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:48.240 But that also comes back to the orchestration engine and being able to orchestrate that series of collection letters because we are hyper focused on banks piece. 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:50.799 Some of these banks have really old systems. 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:52.079 True statement. 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:52.799 I mean, they do. 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:55.920 I mean, so and some of these mortgages, right, they're 20 years old. 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.279 They're 25 years old. 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:00.319 They're originated

on systems like three generations ago. 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:00.559 Yeah. 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.839 So on Windows 95 on a back server sitting in the yeah. 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:05.599 I've done those audits. 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:09.680 I've I've done some of those consulting projects and got to see behind the curtain there. 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:14.960 But I think, you know, I think we kind of beat this topic up, but you know, again, the message is really clear. 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:19.599 Look, you gotta have a digital platform, you've got to continue to evolve it, but you also gotta be full service. 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:24.799 You gotta have skilled agents to analyze the non calls and out and they make good outborn calls. 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:27.359 You're still gonna generate revenue from outbond calls. 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:28.720 Let me ask you this. 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:30.480 What does the next five years look like? 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:42.079 You saw, like we've been talking about kind of the culmination of this for the past couple of years, and this I feel like is the the result of what we've been talking about in you implementing your your own strategies. 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:45.200 What do you think the next five years starts to look like? 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:47.680 You know, that's that's really hard for me to say. 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.559 I used to be able to confidently predict five years. 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:52.559 I'm down to two and three-year windows now. 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:56.880 I think the next two years thing is a digital evolution. 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:01.119 Well, you got you got to go more than two years because you got to break at least one political cycle. 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.119 You have to cross at least one political cycle. 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.960 The next two years, I think regulatory is gonna be okay, right? 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.400 Unless these states have their own like California's or old CFB. 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:14.160 I think from regular look, you've got to be compliant regardless. 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:15.440 But we're seeing some breaks. 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:20.160 Some of the some of these CERCs have rule that the tax is not considered a phone call. 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:22.720 So that opens you up for more than seven by seven. 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:27.279 I mean, I think you gotta I think regulatory, I think it's gonna be okay for us. 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:31.920 But again, different states, there's always you know states that are gonna be a little more zealous. 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:34.640 But it g it really just depends on the technology, right? 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.039 I mean, and how fast the issuers deploy. 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:39.039 I mean, it depends who you collect for. 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:44.640 If you're issuer centric like we are, then you know, I think the next two or three years is okay. 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:53.440

But if you're collecting just for debt buyers or or or or fintechs, and you're not collecting for big time issuers, it's gonna be all technology driven. 00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:54.240 Yeah. 00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:55.039 All technology. 00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:58.079 I mean, if you if you apply for a loan at FinTech, right? 00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:59.519 You never talk to a human being. 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:09.519 The first call you get is from either the the fintech internal collection team or from one of us first priority collection teams for the fintech. 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:11.599 That's the first time you talk to a human being. 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.480 You haven't stepped into a branch, right? 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:16.079 You've never met anybody. 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:18.000 No relationship. 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:19.599 No relationship. 00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:21.039 First time you talk to a human being. 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:30.640 So if you know if you're working for fintechs, you gotta be technology forward, but you're still gonna have to have a a smart collective because you know, this is the first time they talk to a human being. 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:35.519 So you think the the needs of the creditor will continue to evolve as well? 00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:41.279 Do you think that they're you think creditors are going to find themselves we're gonna see this increase in charge-offs? 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:45.119 We're seeing a shift to where that increase is coming into that subprime market. 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:52.079 So I think we're gonna see some changes in the way that you know origination happens and we might see some tightening just based on the numbers that I've been seeing. 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:59.920 But how do you think the creditors, do you think that they'll start to accelerate that technology adoption pace over the next five years? 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:04.559 Or do you think they're still going to look for the the human aspect and element to be handled? 00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:06.960 Or do you think it's is it still a hybrid approach? 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:08.799 I think it's a pretty hybrid approach. 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.880 That's just yeah, that's my best educated guess. 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:13.839 I mean, look, issuers want to drive technology. 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:17.599 Okay, they want they're gonna be using bots, you know, they're gonna want to drive technology. 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:24.720 But again, there's always there's always a situation where you just don't understand why you're being called. 00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:28.079 You don't understand, you know, they remember the VOD, the L they should die. 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:29.359 I thought I'd pay this. 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:33.359 You know, I thought I'd there's always gonna be a human component to this. 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:36.160 Because similarly people want to talk to human beings. 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:40.000 That's where it's really important to make it easy to get to one of your agents. 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:40.799 Right? 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:43.440 You can't have these prolonged whole times, you can't have all this. 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:44.880 Get the call to the agent. 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:53.440 There's nothing more frustrating than being put on hold and be transferred to two or three different people again. 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:54.000 Come on. 00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:58.640 Just pick up the phone to the call or being dropped, right? 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:05.440 But the company that answers immediately, you have a lot more respect for because it's such a rare occurrence these days. 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:07.440 It is a rare occurrence. 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:17.440 I don't know what the moves are in the industry because we we don't you know we don't really touch a lot of clients on the industry and play club service, but like I tell you there's a need for it. 00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:18.960 There's an absolute need for it. 00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:23.039 I know some of the airlines, the American Airlines has the platinum 800 number. 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:25.440 You dial that number, you talk somebody fast. 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:26.240 Immediately. 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:27.200 Yeah, immediately. 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:29.119 And that you know what that's value at. 00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:31.279 That that makes you come back to that airline. 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:33.119 It is the loyalty program, right? 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:38.960 Like that is why we stick to one airline is because you're hoping to get a level of service. 00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:39.920 Yeah. 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:40.240 Yeah. 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:45.839 When everybody else when the flight gets canceled and everybody's standing around yelling in a line, it's easier to jump on the phone. 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:49.200 Yeah, I'm I'm I'm already bored in the next flight out of there. 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:53.119 So it's but that I think is what's how we get there. 00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:56.240 I think that's what the creditor is ultimately looking for, right? 00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:59.119 The creditor is looking to improve the customer experience. 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:11.200 I think there's going to be some level of that that happens with technology as you think about the fintechs, and consumers tend to want to have their loan service through similar or the same channels in which they originated the loan. 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:22.079 If I went into the you know, into the bank and filled out a credit card application, I might still be going into the bank once a month to physically make that payment on that card, right? 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:23.519 It's different. 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:25.519 It's rare, but it happens. 00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:28.720 I look, I maybe it's just because I live here in Port St. 00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:34.160 Lucie, Florida, but I see that almost every Friday at

the bank that I walk in there. 00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:36.240 There's people standing there waiting to make it. 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:37.920 A little different demographic. 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:43.440 A little different demographic, but it's also those folks that are not comfortable making that online payment. 00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:45.119 They don't want to do it by phone. 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:47.279 They like to have that personal interaction. 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:57.599 So the point that I'm making there is that I think each segment of the marketplace or each segment of consumers has a different way that they want to be serviced, but ultimately the creditor is looking, how can I best service? 00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:10.480 If that's the use of technology, if that's the use of people, if that's that continued hybrid approach between it, I think that's their underlying control their, you know, control those costs and provide the best experience they can for a customer. 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:17.039 Because even a charged-off customer, especially in those earlier stages, may still be a customer next month. 00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:20.079 You know, we can still work through this and get this back to current. 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.519 Everybody thought all these branches for banks are going to close. 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:24.720 And some of them did close. 00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:26.559 There's still a lot of branches out there. 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:28.079 A lot of branches, man. 00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.960 Like I'm in, you know, I'm in Del Rey, I'm a federal highway. 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.599 There's like five banks right next to each other. 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:35.039 Right on federal. 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:36.960 So you know exactly US one. 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:38.799 Lots of branches at US one. 00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:41.279 Lots of branches at US one. 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:43.200 All right, let's move on, brother. 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:45.519 But no, that's that's exactly it, Larry. 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.319 Well, look, that that was really what I wanted to cover with you today. 00:26:48.400 --> 00:27:01.440 I appreciate you coming on and sharing your insights because it sounds like you've gone through this process, you've you've kind of come out the other side, you've continued to see that success, you're continuing to run that same playbook, and I just appreciate you coming on and sharing it with me. 00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:02.799 Appreciate it. 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:07.119 You know, just to you know, I know we talked briefly, but the numbers did play out. 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:13.119 You know, the the third party is still the more profitable land, but the first party covers your fixed cost. 00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:18.160 So it's it, you know, but the episodic work, it was 47.53 this year. 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:20.640 47% first, 53% third. 00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:24.000 But the third party generated higher percents of the profit. 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:24.480 Okay. 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:26.480 Because there's less labor in the third party. 00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:28.720 But just let you know the numbers do work. 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:29.839 The numbers work, man. 00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:30.960 I told you they would and they did. 00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:34.559 And that's why I wanted to close out this conversation, Larry. 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:36.559 I can't thank you enough for joining me today. 00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:42.880 For those of you that are watching, if you have additional questions you'd like to ask, Larry and myself, you can leave those in the comments on LinkedIn and YouTube. 00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:44.079 We'll be responding to those. 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:51.759 Or if you have additional topics you'd like to see us discuss, I bet you I can get Larry back here at least one more time to help me continue to create great content for a great industry. 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:54.000 But until next time, Larry, thank you so much. 00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:55.359 Come down to Del Rey. 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:56.559 I'll be there in October, brother. 00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:57.359 I'll see you down there. 00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:58.160 I look forward to it. 00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:00.640 I'll see you there before we head back to Brazil. 00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.200 And thank you everybody for your time and attention today. 00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:04.319 We'll see you all again soon. 00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:05.599 Bye, everyone.