النص الكامل لحلقة Making Space for Emergence – Deepwell and Armonia Arts

for a long time, which had a label on it saying it was an arts venue. Um, and it was on the corner, people know it as the chemists. It used to be Brennans the Chemist for a long time, then it was for a short time it was a, uh, estate agents, and then it was empty. Very prominent position on the corner of Foss Road. 03:47.300 --> 04:31.900 Uh, so I pursued and I hired it for a short time at a very reasonable rate um, and opened up to people passing by to come in and do something. Um, I started getting a bit of traction, and that was 2 years ago, and even today, people know me as, "Oh, you're the woman who was on the corner." And I'm not, because for the last 2 years, I've been here in Harmonia Music and Arts, which is the annex to the Church of the Martyrs' um, community hall, and it's a self-enclosed space. It's um, operated independently of the community hall, so um, and run by the amazing Poppy, who's here with us. Um, and, uh, I've just developed, based on interest and based on my own skills development, I've developed courses, classes, drop-ins, and workshops where people can um, just enjoy making, like I say, because, again, the digital age, a lot of what I was doing was screen-based in higher education. It was um, spending all day just pushing things around on screen, sending messages to people, getting replies, processing stuff. Um, the creativity came in creating new bits of writing, then AI comes in uh, and even that's just, uh, people are just using technology for absolutely everything, and kind of losing sight of beauty and beautiful things around them, um, apart from things that have been mass-produced elsewhere. So, I felt quite strongly people that I wanted to make things, I wanted to involve people in rediscovering skill of making. 04:31.900 --> 04:42.500 So, where did your, what I actually wanted to know what I have, you answered so eloquently, but I really wanted to know was where did your creativity start? 04:42.500 --> 04:43.100 Oh, okay, so, 04:43.100 --> 04:46.300 What was, what was your first time? How did you get into what you're doing? 04:46.300 --> 05:13.400 Yeah. So, my, I was, well, I was inspired by um, a creative family, I think. My mother was an artist. Uh, she passed away, again, about 2 and a half years ago now, and that, um, no, it wasn't that long ago. It was um, a year and a half ago, but um, as she was sort of getting more poorly, I was thinking, I've just got to carry on some legacy. She's given me such a wonderful start in life. So, all my life I've done bits of painting, drawing. All my adult life I've gone to pottery classes on and off. Um, so, I've always found it a relaxing place. It's a place to create nice things, to um, learn new skills, to be feel competent at doing things. I do a lot of DIY as well, so, and I think the two things are kind of linked. I feel confident to do DIY because I know how things are constructed and that it's not beyond our own wit to make things. 05:13.400 --> 05:17.300 Poppy, what about you? What was your creative journey? How did that start? 05:17.300 --> 05:59.000 Um, I think in a similar way I have to be thankful to my family because I had a cousin um, who was a musician and composer. And I remember so like it's happening now that he came one day at home and he said to my mom, "So, when is Poppy going to start learning the piano?" And my mom said, "I don't have a clue. I'd, you know, I don't know." Since, since, she didn't have any clue at all about music. Uh, so he said, "Well, um, off you go, um, I'll go and order a piano and the piano will come tomorrow here and we're starting. You're bringing her there and there and we're starting the lessons." Um, but I also, I think as I grew up in the high school, um, my teachers, if I didn't had the the support and encouragement of my teachers, specific teachers who who who just saw maybe something to me and said, "Well done, keep going. You know, that's fantastic. Music is your thing." Um, I remember I was running the the choir, the school choir, and, um, in a way, I felt I was not the student, but I was the teacher because, um, I had the access, uh, you know, I was closer to the teachers. The teachers said, "Yes, do this. Do it. Go for it." And I felt like I had grown up a few centimeters more. Um, yes, and um, at some point, that all stopped and then it came all back, you know, because of how life comes and and goes. Um, yes. 05:59.000 --> 06:14.300 So, how, how do you describe and explain to people what your, how do you describe, your aesthetic view is, your your inspiration in terms of the create, the creative style, the approach that you take? What was, what's the um, the mannerism, if you like, or the feeling that you are working with? 06:14.300 --> 07:05.100 Yeah. Um, so, for me, I think the, uh, style that I have is really one of um, just believe that you can do it. I think just, um, it's not, I, I mean, personally, I, my, I lean a lot towards the Arts and Crafts movement. So, I bring a lot of their thinking into the kind of um, activities that we do, so natural products, trying to be um, natural. A lot of the sort of organic designs um, use a lot of nature um, inspired um, motifs, and stylized motifs that grew up in the sort of Art Nouveau era. So, that's the kind of aesthetic that I project, um, but really I want people to understand or find their own, find their own way. Um, a lot of um, for the pottery classes, for example, people come with templates that they've found and I try, which are fine, but they're very much, cut this out, stick this together, you've made this. And I really want people to start working more organically with the clay to help them discover what's the clay meaning for them. How is it actually shaping what their hands are doing, rather than this sort of cut-out that they've they've made. People have made wonderful things. Um, they've uh, been inspired by things they've seen on TikTok or Instagram, and that's lovely. That's really

lovely, and people have then adapted it to make it their own, um, which is, that's an ideal for me. I think people should find their own aesthetic through what they're, through what they're making and how they're making it. 07:05.100 --> 07:07.400 What about you, Poppy? What's your style? 07:07.400 --> 07:46.300 Um, well, I was, uh, classically trained, um, nothing to do with improvisation, nothing to do with jazz, nothing to do with anything contemporary. Um, and uh, coming here in England, it was uh, a whole new world that I had to to discover. Um, so through my teaching experience and through in my work, I I want my students to discover music as a language. So, I want them to know the ABC of the of the of that language so that they can read by themselves, understand by themselves, and then they don't need me. Then they can pick up a go, a book, like we do in any language, and and play anything they like. And then they'll discover themselves um, their journey. Um, so, being here, I developed, uh, my composer flair that came up, popping up, and um, and uh, I think, uh, I'm more towards the minimalism, um, um, yes, movement. Um, we we had a very beautiful um, little exhibition back in February where Francis created, uh, clay items and I created the music, and the idea was that, um, people will interact with the clay items, they they'll produce sounds and I I played along my music. And it was an improvisation and, um, inspired by specific theme that I did at the beginning, and just see how uh, that goes. So, yes, that that is something that I would like to explore more. 07:46.300 --> 08:12.700 And that was a really special moment, actually, and you've, what's great is that it's recorded and it's on Instagram, isn't it? It's on, you've got a reel, 08:12.700 --> 08:14.300 On on YouTube, yes, we have it on YouTube, on YouTube. 08:14.300 --> 08:35.300 On YouTube, and it's just so lovely because um, we had a lovely audience who moved around the different installations um, and did, as Poppy say, they interacted with it, they made the sound. So, we had bells, we had chimes, we had um, bits of wood and um, it was just lovely, um, and Poppy was accompanying them and it was the the to and fro was just wonderful. And Poppy's own trademark clayphone, which is like a xylophone, 08:35.300 --> 08:35.700 Yes. 08:35.700 --> 08:50.100 but with clay, um, really stood out. It was just, it was just a lovely event um, and we want to take that further. So, we've started to do these small artistic collaborations, which has been great. So, I'm not just a resident in the space, we are collaborating. We're doing joint projects together um, since I moved here, which is just wonderful. 08:50.100 --> 09:20.500 I'm interested in the idea of um, emergence, which is when things come together that you can't predict what the outcome is. So, it's things are more than the sum of their parts. So, you take, what is it, uh, H2O, what's that, H 2, two hydrogen atoms and an oxygen

atom, have I got that right? And there's nothing about those individual atoms that tell you what water is going to be like and what it does. And that artistic, aesthetic experience, as you bring a piece of work and a person, you bring the clay or you bring the instrument and the person to it and you're going to produce something. And a lot of what we, the world that we live in now, is quite prescriptive about it should be like this, it should be, you should do this, and you kind of touched on that. What what's that process like when you're working with people to nudge them away from that predetermined, prescriptive kind of approach and to go a little bit more creative? 09:20.500 --> 10:14.900 So, I think the emergent um, nature of working with the materials that I work with, um, so I work with polymer clay, which is a colorful substance, and it's a little bit unpredictable because the colors will merge once you start mixing them and blending them in a way that is a bit unpredictable. And the objects people make, um, they, when they come into a session, they don't know what they're going to make. People come really without any idea, or they may have seen something which is either very unrealistic because it's a highly advanced production, you know, method, or it's something which um, it's it's um, not really expansive, and I do try and get them to think. I show examples of what I've made, I show examples of what other students have made as well. So, I usually have some images of of other people's work as inspiration, and the same with clay. I think um, giving people the confidence to know that clay making is a process. It's not a rapid process, and if you make something, it doesn't have to remain. You don't have to keep it. We can reuse the clay. They don't have to go forwards if they're not happy with something that they've started making. Um, I've got a regular group on a Tuesday evening who've been coming for over a year and a half now. Um, there's some people changing in and out, but some people have been there throughout, and I can see the progress that they've made, their confidence in working with clay, their assurance about the kind of objects they want to make and the methods and techniques that they're using. So, they're they're upskilling themselves. And all I'm doing is going around and just prodding them a little bit this way, a little bit that way, suggesting tools they might use rather than the ones they've just randomly picked up, um, showing them how they can elevate what they're doing into something that's beyond what they thought they were starting with. You know, they could add, they could add, they can create textures, they can um, do different surface-level designs on their on their clay works at different stages, rather than having to be done by painting a glaze on at the end, like the pottery painting studios, that that's just painting on a bit of ready-made clay. So, all of what our the students make, I would say, has been inspired by an initial desire they've got to produce something of a certain type, and then shaped by gentle guidance and, um, you know, taken beyond. 10:14.900 --> 10:23.000 How how does that compare with music because we um, are people's attitudes to music as an expressive form of art? They're different from physical forms. 10:23.000 --> 10:48.300 Mm, I think everything starts um, with the opportunities that are given when people are young. Um, what I mean is that with my students, I always have 5 minutes in the lesson where I'll say, "Now, let's mess around the piano. Do you mess around the piano?" Um, and they look at me and maybe not because, as you said before, everything is prescribed. We have to do this, we have to sit like this, we have to talk like this, we have to talk like this. It's, you know, we have to have a certain behavior. So, um, exploring and, um, just exploring the sounds with just, it's it's fantastic. And I'm trying it with um, my adult students as well. But, their things are a bit more more challenging, so I have to be a little bit more creative um, and still make them improvise or mess around the piano without understanding how they're doing it. Uh, but I think it's the um, essential um, essential thing because then then you discover your creativity, um, then you discover something that you never knew it existed, a sound or a print or or something. 10:48.300 --> 11:39.100 I'm, I'm just reminded um, so, we ran an Easter art club with young people. I generally work with adults, um, but um, we were keen to support local children, so we ran an art club at Easter. It was just four mornings. Um, and it was amazing, we had 16 local children coming and um, we were introducing them to quite advanced creative arts, and I was giving them a framework to let them explore those things, so print making, mosaics, and clay. Um, and I think it was um, I suppose it it was surprising to me how constrained their use of art materials had been up to that point for them. So, in the curriculum they they do do art, but it's very restricted. So, we were using gel plate printing, for example, and it was just an amazing event really, um, and at the end of the session, we got them to frame a piece of their print. So, then they'd produced, you know, five, six prints each, because you, it's quite a rapid process, um, and then we got them to choose, make a choice, what would you frame. And we framed them and we took a little exhibition, a little photo of the exhibition of what they'd made that morning, and that's where I think it's emergent. They were realizing that what they make has value, has aesthetic value, um, they've learned to make choices about what's good and not good about what they're doing. So, that was a real strong sort of learning point for them. Um, what I was hoping to do here, which has taken a while to develop, is to do a sort of students' exhibition. So, that's something I'm looking forward to doing because some of the items

that people have made here have been exceptional and not only because they're aesthetically, they could be judged as aesthetically all-round lovely, but because they are expressions of people's um, creativity in a way that I don't think they felt they were capable of before they started working with me. So, that's, that's what I want people to share. 11:39.100 --> 12:02.100 There's a um, a sense that we overthink and over, there's too much technique and too much process often involved, whereas actually what we might be more uh, it's harder to do is to convey a feeling, and the idea that if you want to uh, tell somebody how you're feeling, share with them a photograph or a piece of art, because it conveys something which you can't put into words. What's it like when you have people, you know, that you're working with and they make that switch from thinking about what they're doing to exploring the feeling that uh, it kind of encapsulates? 12:02.100 --> 12:28.900 It's a wow moment, isn't it? Um, and exactly as you described it, um, there are moments that I will play um, some of the sounds of the lower sounds, and that'll make a story, and you see the children, which they have been doing it exactly the same way, but I will describe something. I'll say, I'll make it a story and you'll see them like, something something has happened, they they understand that feeling and they say, "Oh, wow. Wow. What what happened? How did?" I said, "Now, your turn. Keep going the story. Let's see what happens next." And it's, it's fascinating to see, fascinating to see. 12:28.900 --> 12:53.900 And what I find lovely is that when I'm running a workshop and people are really absorbed in their making, it goes quiet. And you've got a group of, you know, 8, 10 people here and they're just all entirely absorbed in what they're doing. But, they're doing it together. So, there are casual kind of chip chats and so on, but it's just a sort of um, magical moments of just group absorption in individual making, which is lovely. 12:53.900 --> 13:25.800 It it's that sense of communing. You know, we we talk about community a lot and we talk about it in a kind of artificial way, whereas actually when you get those moments where people do come together and get lost in, uh, silently lost in something. How do we support that and how do we uh, ensure that the, because it's very fragile and it's not something that typically gets put into government or local authority or arts funders' strategies? How do you maintain that level of um, what's the phrase I'm looking for? You're looking at it, it's quite fragile and it's not um, it's not laid out, it's not specified. How do you, it it's it's tacit and something that exists between people, but it's it's difficult to support, 13:25.800 --> 14:14.100 Yeah, well, I think one of the things is feedback from students. So, I've not been very good at at um, getting that feedback documented from students, but they do say all, you know, repeatedly,

"This has been amazing. Um, this is the highlight of my week." You know, "I've been waiting to come here. It was just amazing." The, it's not just me as a teacher, I have other teachers who come in and do other specialist things. So, so-and-so was just fabulous, it was um, "I felt so relaxed. Um, I've had a hard week and this was just the tonic I needed." You know, all of those things come out through the feedback, so that's one way to document that kind of communing, um, that kind of positive well-being impact, um, and a lot of the funders are looking for well-being, and you're right, it's very difficult to put it down in tangible words, but I think the feedback from individuals um, and the um, I suppose the way that people spread word of mouth about what they've experienced here, that's the other way. Um, and both Poppy and I get get that, we get lots of people recommending others to come and get involved. 14:14.100 --> 14:20.900 And how far afield do you draw people from? Is it is it strictly neighborhood or is it from lots of other places? 14:20.900 --> 14:22.100 Nah. 14:22.100 --> 14:23.900 International. 14:23.900 --> 14:24.400 Oh, almost, that close. 14:24.400 --> 14:48.300 No. Um, well, uh, here we have people coming from Nottingham. Well, I have students from Warwick, that's I think the the further that we go, um, from Loughborough. Um, and from the wider area, not not so much from the local streets. We have, we have people coming um, from the local streets, but further further away. And I think all the years, um, the word of mouth was um, the main thing for me, um, and last year I was determined that I will get reviews, we'll do it, we'll get them, write everything down, we have feedback, and when they did, it was amazing how they described that is um, their experience is life-changing here, um. It was very, very beautiful. 14:48.300 --> 14:55.700 What are you looking forward to coming up? What have you got planned? 14:55.700 --> 14:55.900 Mm. 14:55.900 --> 15:52.400 Well, um, what have I got planned? I've got plans to um, we're going to adapt the space that we're in. So, we are hoping to, we wanted to expand the space that we have, we haven't been able to, so we're going to make some adaptations, because um, I'm sustaining multiple crafts in quite a small, reused space, and it's um, also shared with Poppy's fantastic endeavors, which are things like Greek dancing, so she needs a big open space, um, there's the um, sort of children's groups that meet here and they need a sort of clear, open space. So, there's all sorts of multiple things going on here. I do mosaics which need their own kind of space, I do the pottery which needs its own quite large space because we've got lots, need lots of drying space as well as making space, um, and yes, so over the summer, this summer, we're going to do some reorganization to try and make the space better. We've got two lovely music rooms here which, you know, are to be preserved because that's what makes the individual music lessons here so special. You've got a kind of hideaway, so you feel like you're just on your own in the classroom where actually everyone around can hear what you're doing. Um, yeah, so in the short term, that's what we're doing. I think Poppy and I are looking at future collaborations. Um, we are hoping to take our exhibition music and clay on to a different venue and adapt it in a more participatory way, even more participatory. Um, we had hoped to get an exhibition up in the cathedral, but we weren't successful with that one. Um, yeah, so we're looking to to take those collaborations further. Personally, I've um, I want the studio here to be a destination pottery studio for people locally. Most of my people are relatively local. I have people coming from um, Cosby and Lutterworth as well, um, and it would be nice if the people locally knew more about what goes on here. So, um, that's a challenge for me, um, and to keep the prices affordable. Pottery's not a cheap game, uh, but I am trying to keep my prices down and do other things that are aligned which enable people to have a go. 15:52.400 --> 15:55.500 What about you, Poppy? 15:55.500 --> 16:47.300 Um, yes, I I'm hoping that we'll have a very busy year ahead as well, uh, with all these changes that will happen here. Um, I think they will help us to, as I say always, it's a tango. It's like we're dancing tango, one step back, the other one forward. And then, you can fit a thousand people in here, perhaps maybe. Um, and um, yes, I I think it's going to be very exciting. You you will see from Harmonia Music and Arts and Deepwell Arts lots of things coming up. Um, yeah, so, 16:47.300 --> 17:34.000 And we're keeping an eagle eye on the development with the Foss Arts um, building, so down on Mantle Road nearby, um, huge resource, a huge facility, um, which needs investment, and I think the council have agreed to sell it or pass it on, so there is a social enterprise network that are looking into how to take that on, and I think it would be a lovely home for us, um, if it had the right refurbishment and investment to make it worth us being there, because I think what we can, what we add in terms of music, dancing, creative arts, would absolutely fit into that space very well. Um, we're both independents, so we're not aligned with any other organizations, so we've got the freedom and flexibility that um, allows us to respond incredibly agilely to new ideas and new demands. We love emergent thinking, we're both um, impulsive in terms of we see a good idea and we want to go with it, um, and that's what's made this collaboration really successful so far. 17:34.000 --> 17:46.300 So, before I ask you where can people find out more information, uh, is there anything that we've not talked about that you wanted to say specifically? Because we can always do another another conversation at some point as well. 17:46.300 --> 18:24.000 No, what's, I mean, if you want to come and visit our shop, we have a little shop which is depleted at the moment because I'm going to a couple of events like the Clarendon Park um, festival on Queens Road on the weekend and one of the makers' markets that's coming up. So, I've taken things out of the shop to show there. Um, yeah, I mean, we want to hear from other creatives who might want to get involved in doing things here. We've got a fairly full program here and we're a little bit constrained on the times we can run things here because of what else goes on in the building. Um, so we're doing our best with maximizing what goes on, and we just welcome people to come in and have a look and see. 18:24.000 --> 18:41.100 So, how do people get in contact with you both? 18:41.100 --> 19:12.900 Um, I think there are two websites they need to remember and mark down. One is harmoniamusicandarts.co.uk and the other one is deepwellarts.com, and there they can find, uh, all the information about us, about the space, about the classes we offer, upcoming events, to see past events that we have done, exhibitions, everything is there, and yes, they're very welcome to just come and visit us and have a look in the space and yeah. 19:12.900 --> 19:35.000 And Poppy's got a call-out at the moment for more music teachers. So, we we currently, so, she currently does piano, guitar, and violin, um, and so any other music teachers would be very welcome to connect. Um, and I'm currently looking for interesting other creatives to come and do some um, workshops, and if anyone's interested as well in running a after-school club for an art club after school, they're very welcome to come and talk to me here as well. We're both on Facebook, we're both on Instagram. 19:35.000 --> 19:39.000 Wonderful, and I'll put the links to that on it as well. Thank you.