النص الكامل لحلقة 481 Why AI Transformation Fails: The Leadership and Emotional Intelligence Gap with Rich Hua

an organization. 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:50.160 What are the types of things we need to do that can start making EQ part of our organizational culture? 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:59.279 So, really the key is to make the desired behaviors expected, supported, and rewarded. 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.959 And I mentioned ability, motivation, opportunity, but it's like, what do we actually want? 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:04.160 What are we looking for? 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:04.720 Right. 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:13.439 And some really important things are one, the leader modeling the behaviors that they're looking for and even talking about their own journey, right? 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:23.839 It has to that that's one of the greatest motivators to see our leaders modeling it and then creating systems that actually, again, make these desired behaviors expected, support, and reward, right? 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:36.240 If you're promoted because you're a lying, cheating son of a gun, or you just deliver results and half your team quits every year, people are gonna go, okay, that seems like a good career progression path. 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:49.199 Or you don't actually have the opportunity in team meetings, even simply to be able to express things or have disagreement respectfully or be able to raise concerns or questions, then people are gonna be like, I'm not gonna do that, right? 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:51.680 And so leadership modeling is big. 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:56.000 The second is actually understanding what the real culture is. 00:05:56.560 --> 00:06:02.959 One of the biggest failings, I think, of a lot of initiatives is that they go, Oh, we're gonna change our culture from A to B. 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:06.959 And they think that A is actually what they have on their website. 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:10.399 When A is something completely different. 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:14.639 It's like websites of trust, integrity, initiative, experimentation. 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.439 But what boy, when you try it, it's punished. 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.000 So we have to go, what is the real culture? 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:26.959 And then any initiative has to align with the real culture and evolve it, not try to oppose it. 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:35.439 And I say that because one of the biggest things that Amazon was a sort of philosophy of mine or a mental model was I use cultural jujitsu. 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:36.240 Right? 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:41.600 And I've taken martial arts, hopkito, and it's this derivative of IT jujitsu for 25 years. 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:49.759 And so when someone punches you in the face, it is inefficient to block it at a 90-degree angle because you're exerting a lot of force and it might hurt your arm. 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:55.600 It's better to slightly deflect it so that it misses your face and it only needs to miss by an inch and they don't punch you. 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:57.519 So it's cultural jujitsu. 00:06:57.680

--> 00:07:01.920 Instead of trying to oppose it, move it slightly in a more positive direction. 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:03.040 And so that's what I did. 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:13.439 I took all the strengths, and there are many amazing strengths of Amazonian culture: the leadership principles, day one mindset, bias reaction, deliver results, customer obsession, all those were amazing. 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:22.480 And I took them and I go, let's humanize them more, integrate EQ into it so that we can be even more awesome Amazonians by being emotionally intelligent. 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:27.199 I wasn't trying to make you less, I was trying to make you more of what we actually believed. 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:28.399 And so leaders love that. 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:30.079 They're like, heck yeah, let's do it. 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.000 This will make us more successful. 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:45.120 What a powerful example of how you can actually make it more likely that the initiative, in this case, emotional intelligence in the organization can succeed. 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:47.920 A big part of it is modeling by the leader. 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:57.680 But as you said, it's understanding the culture and incorporating it into the culture in a way that's not confrontational to the culture, but builds on it. 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:05.519 Now, the other thing about Amazon is that Amazon is very analytical, metrics-driven. 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:14.560 People that might think we were talking soft, touchy, feely stuff there, Rich, when we talk about emotional intelligence. 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:21.920 How were you able to build this movement inside of Amazon, which is so metrics driven? 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.439 So I will tell you the key is empathy. 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:31.439 It's understanding what the listeners and the audience really cared about and how they thought. 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:38.399 But one of the biggest questions that I get a lot or pushbacks is hey, we are data-driven, hyperlogical, results-oriented company. 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:42.960 What does all this emotional fluffy crap have to do with data? 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:45.919 And what I tell them is emotions are data. 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:53.919 They're actually really important data points to understand and integrate into our analysis so we can make optimal decisions. 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:57.279 And if you ignore them, then you do it at your own peril. 00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:57.600 Right. 00:08:57.679 --> 00:08:59.200 We believe in customer obsession. 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:00.720 We believe in earning trust. 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:02.240 We believe in bias for action. 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:04.720 We believe in respectfully disagreeing. 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:10.000 How can you do that effectively without understanding what the other person is thinking or feeling? 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:10.480 Right. 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:11.120 You cannot. 00:09:11.200 -->

00:09:12.879 And so we must incorporate that data. 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:23.120 If you're in sales and you're a sales leader and you meet the CEO of a company and their facial expression is this versus their facial expression is this, you should probably have a different approach. 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:24.960 That's like an important piece of data. 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:26.639 That's emotional challenges. 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:33.200 And then the other thing that I did was, again, I framed it in a way that would help them with their pains, challenges, hopes, and dreams. 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:35.600 I did not go and say, I'm really passionate about EQ. 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:37.200 Would you like a serving of EQ? 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:37.840 This is great. 00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:40.000 I went ahead and laughed out of the room. 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:49.200 It was more like, what business challenges are you facing that could be solved with greater connection, understanding, adaptability, collaboration? 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:58.559 It's like, oh, let me tell you, wow, we've got this issue, that issue, retention, attracting talent, silos, adapting to new ways of working, massive organizational change. 00:09:58.720 --> 00:09:59.919 The list goes on and on. 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:04.559 And then my response is, I believe I can help you solve some of those business challenges. 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:05.919 Here's what it is. 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:07.440 So it's empathy, right? 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:12.000 It wasn't about me, it was about them, and I have a solution for their pains and challenges. 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:20.960 And that was what actually convinced a lot of skeptical people, instead of laughing under their breath or laughing out loud, actually taking seriously what I had to say. 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:22.720 And of course, there's a lot of science behind it. 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:26.240 I'm a veritable repository of research and science. 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:29.919 I've read almost every book there is about it, and every new one that comes at it, I read it. 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:31.360 Because I want to be very science-backed. 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:33.120 This is not about Rich Wild's opinion. 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:39.440 This is about lots and lots of science-backed data-driven results that come from applying these skills. 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:53.120 That Rich is showing some emotional intelligence in bringing people to your way of thinking rather than trying to stuff it down their throats because you believe it's the right way to approach it. 00:10:53.360 --> 00:11:01.279 Now, the other thing I love that you were able to do is create a movement around emotional intelligence. 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:06.639 When you say a million and a half people that have been touched, that is a movement. 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:12.639 And I think movement thinking becomes really important in any kind of change, including in organizations.

00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:18.399 How were you able to conceive of and approach building a movement around this? 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:21.039 Well, it's really interesting because I love that word. 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:24.879 I and my fellow movement members do refer to it as a movement. 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:26.799 And here's why it's so important. 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:34.399 Because, and you said it earlier, no change happens without it being some form of a movement. 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:42.960 Initiatives, edicts, strategies, programs don't change anything. 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:52.480 Movements change things because that implies, by definition, that the movers are personally invested in wherever they're moving, right? 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:54.159 Otherwise, it's just an edict. 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:58.320 My my leader told me to do X, and I guess I'll do it begrudgingly, but I'm not really bought into it. 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:02.960 But so the key is to tap into there's a few things, right? 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:04.399 One is trust. 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:06.240 There must be trust, right? 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:08.879 There must be a sense of transparency, authenticity. 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:16.399 And hey, we're we're actually we we have a positive relationship, meaning that we believe our leader cares about us. 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:18.960 And they obviously are running a business, but they actually care. 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:21.679 This isn't like decisions are being made despite me. 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:24.080 I'm actually factored in, and vice versa. 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:29.039 There's obviously competence as well as consistency along with trust, but the big part is positive relationship. 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:30.320 Like we feel like they care. 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:34.080 The second is it has to tap into our own internal motivations. 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:41.279 No one's going to act long term, basically in misalignment with their own motivations and values. 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:44.639 You can do it short term, but long term, you're like, I'm out of here. 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:45.120 Forget it. 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:47.600 And so you have to tap into it. 00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:54.080 And one of the things I find really interesting is when leaders go to their people and say, I've got a grand plan. 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.799 We're going to optimize our workforce. 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:04.559 And basically, this AI and this technology, this rollout, is going to reduce the number of people we need to do this work and it's going to save us a lot of money. 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:10.879 And they say some version of that, not as obviously as I just said it, because that would be really dumb, but some version of that. 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:12.320 That's what people hear. 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:15.600 You're like, am I supposed to be inspired by that? 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:19.120 The beating will stop when morale

improves? 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:20.000 Seriously? 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:20.799 That's the thing. 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:22.960 You did not tap into my motivations. 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:27.919 In fact, you literally controverted and opposed my motivation for survival and thriving. 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:30.240 Do you really think I'm going to buy into that? 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:33.120 And that's why Writer, that's it's an AI company. 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:43.279 They literally did a research and they found that 29% of workers, including 44% of Gen Z, admit to sabotaging their company's AI efforts. 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:44.399 Sabotage. 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:46.879 Because they're like, wait a minute. 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:49.519 You're trying to basically get rid of my job and get rid of me. 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:51.840 Do you really think I'm going to buy into this? 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:52.480 No, thanks. 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:53.440 So it's that, right? 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:57.440 But then on the other hand, I know leaders are facing an incredible challenge, right? 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:06.559 It's like it's almost three-quarters of CEOs say that their company's AR effort, AI efforts are causing personal anxiety and stress. 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:10.080 And 38% of them say it's a higher crippling amount of stress. 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:13.279 So you got leaders over here really trying to drive something. 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:15.600 Their board of directors is breathing down their throats. 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:18.720 They're reading the news and go, why aren't you doing what's over there is purporting to be doing? 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:19.759 And they're trying to make it happen. 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:22.639 And then they got individuals that are like, I'm just trying to save my job. 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:24.720 And it's dysfunctional. 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:25.440 Right. 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:36.159 And instead of focusing on how do we make this more functional to move together in the right direction, it's like a three-legged race where two people are running at different paces and they're tripping and falling and wondering why they're not winning the game. 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:46.399 Anyway, I'm saying a lot about that, but the point is that Amazon, 99.9% of the people who are part of the movement were doing it as volunteers. 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:53.759 When I launched my initiative and became worldwide head of the Epic Leadership Program, I had a grand total of three and a half employees. 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:54.399 Right? 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:59.039 It was Kelly, Elias, and Charis, and then I had a consultant named Bill, and that was the whole team. 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:13.840 And yet we were able to build a community of 70,000 people inside Amazon and then go out and reach a million and a half because a vast majority of the people who were champions and evangelists and workshop facilitators were all doing

it off the side of the desk. 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:17.120 Because it tapped into their internal motivation. 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:33.120 They got so much joy and satisfaction out of doing it, out of making a positive difference, out of doing something they really cared about that they were glad to do it for free and even devote time in a very busy schedule to be able to do extra stuff because they got so much out of it, and so did their audiences. 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:39.919 And so it was that virtuous cycle of tapping into motivation, built on trust, and having a common mission. 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.519 There is so much to learn from what you just shared, Rich. 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:47.279 One with respect to emotional intelligence. 00:15:47.600 --> 00:16:01.519 The other is with respect to change within organizations, in that if you think about it, you were not the CEO of Amazon stomping your foot down and saying, we shall do this. 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:02.480 Yeah. 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:14.559 You had to get buy-in with three and a half employees, get 70,000 people energized for a movement that then touched a million and a half people. 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.600 So there is a lot to be learned from all of that. 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:19.600 Yeah, so what does that mean for us? 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:38.159 As humans, I'm not going to talk so much about the alignment issue because that's a whole nother topic, but we individually need to be very thoughtful and intentional about how we use AI because it is really easy to over-rely on it, to offload too much because it's so awesome, right? 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:48.879 There is one recent study that was done where among people who use AI a lot, 62% of them preferred engaging with AI than human beings. 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:50.159 Why is that surprising? 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:51.200 It's not because you know what? 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:56.879 AI doesn't have a bad day, it's always on, it doesn't give you a bad attitude, doesn't talk back to you, doesn't say no. 00:16:57.039 --> 00:16:58.559 It's like the ideal colleagues. 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:02.399 So rather work with AI than with you, because you might be having a bad hair day. 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:04.720 Not you wouldn't be having a bad hair day. 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:06.160 So it's fascinating. 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:16.559 So what happens with that is we can allow our social skills to degrade if we're used to working with something that's always doing our bidding. 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:29.599 If we're surrounded by AI that's always pleasant to work with, our ability to deal with unpleasant people called all people at some point, maybe our own children or partner or friends, it can degenerate. 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:35.599 Guys, in that movie, Wally, remember that movie where people are just kind of sitting, those chairs floating around. 00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:39.759 Why would anybody want to walk when you can just jump

in a chair and float to wherever you want to go? 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:44.000 That's AI, which is efficient, but there are downsides to that, right? 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:50.160 And your brain literally becomes like those bodies in WAL-E if we jump on that floating chair too much. 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:53.680 On the other hand, AI can actually be used to also improve your EQ. 00:17:53.759 --> 00:18:04.880 So I did want to say on the positive side, there are studies that if you use AI coaching the right way, if you use interventions, it is a way to scale EQ skills in a way that can make it accessible to everybody. 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:08.400 And that can be helpful to that end. 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:12.799 But to your point, Rich, I just interviewed Eric Zoe. 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:22.160 He is a professor at MIT Sloan and has written a book, The Collision, What AI Does to Us. 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:37.119 And he raises that exact concern that he is even noticing with his students at MIT, which draws on some of the smartest IQ people from around the world. 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:43.519 However, they're cognitively offloading to AI in many instances. 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:46.400 So it can become a real concern. 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:49.440 As well then for organizations. 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:57.680 So in what ways do you think human capabilities need to be built in an AI-enabled organization? 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.680 This is such a profound question. 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:05.440 It's what I'm devoting my life's work to, basically. 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:22.400 And it is that we must help people both develop, practice, and then apply these epic skills in an AI environment, or we will run ourselves off the edge of a cliff in a bad way. 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:27.039 And what I mean by that again is things like judgment, right? 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:32.559 Focus, creativity, influence, and as I mentioned earlier, metacognition, right? 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:48.880 These are all things that are vital because AI can generate dizzying amounts of output and content and all that, but it has no value system except what is to make you happy, or whatever was programmed into it, or whatever it learned from the internet. 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:52.160 It does not have its own actual sense. 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:57.279 So our human, distinctly human values are more and more important. 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:01.119 And so what's interesting is that more and more companies are now realizing this. 00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:14.000 As part of their AI readiness, companies like Principal Financial, Price Waterhouse Cooper's, PwC, Goldman Sachs are actually training people in these exact human skills. 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:15.680 It's part of the AI training. 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:17.759 They're training EQ as part of the AI training. 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.319 So they're recognizing that it's actually really important. 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:31.599 EY, Ernest Young, literally recently in the news, they allocated$100 million to reward employees that exercise human skills along with AI proficiency. 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:36.960 It's like creativity and empathy and judgment and strategy and business innovation. 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.400 Hey, if you have that along with AI use, we're going to actually reward you. 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:44.720 So more and more companies are realizing how important this is in this world. 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:47.279 And of course, is everything that can be automated gets automated. 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:48.720 What's the differentiator? 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:54.640 It's literally this human interaction right here that we neurobiologically need. 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:58.559 And we cannot function and thrive without. 00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:02.559 And so those who can provide that are going to have an outsized advantage. 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:10.960 The other thing that you've also mentioned a couple of times, Rich, is the importance of self-awareness, which is a critical part of EQ. 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:16.559 I wonder what your thoughts are with respect to AI's impact on our self-awareness. 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.000 I think my answer would be don't rely on AI for it. 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:21.359 That's the only answer. 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:27.279 It can provide us some data points, but think of it as looking at a somewhat foggy mirror. 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:34.240 Well, the somewhat foggy mirror can kind of give you the general idea, but don't rely on the somewhat foggy mirror to help you see what you really look like. 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:43.599 Go talk to a person who actually has an opinion and actually cares about you, knows your context, has their own value system, has a sense of morals, or and can tell you're full of crap. 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:52.400 And the way that I describe AI is my sort of metaphor is it is a genius child actor. 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:54.880 It's incredibly smart. 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:56.000 It is a child. 00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:57.599 You really have to tell what to do and train. 00:21:57.680 --> 00:21:59.039 It really wants to make you happy. 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:01.440 And if it'll Take on whatever persona you want it to be. 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:04.079 It literally can is an infinite number of acting jobs. 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:05.359 It is what it is. 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:11.599 So if you're trying entrusting something important to a genius child actor, not a good idea. 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:13.759 And so you need the human sort of now. 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:15.680 If you want to tap into the genius part, that's great. 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:25.680 But if you want to actually know anything meaningful, deep, have context or actual judgment or life, lived experience, or real care, please do not go to the genius child actor. 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:32.640 So I think that's where some of that

self-awareness does have to come to realize there are certain things I should go talk to the genius child actor about. 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.519 And there's some things that I really shouldn't do with this. 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.799 I need an actual human being who's not a genius, not a child, not an actor. 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:41.359 Maybe my wife or my husband or my partner. 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:44.000 I love the genius child actor. 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:49.359 So it's such a clear way of framing what we can and what we can't expect from AI. 00:22:49.519 --> 00:23:05.839 Now you also mentioned this, Rich, that a lot of the CEOs and executives I interact with are incredibly stressed because the pace of change in their organizations and in the outside environment has become faster in part as a result of AI. 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:08.319 AI is not the only contributor to it. 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:12.319 So they need to lead their organizations in change. 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:22.160 What role do you believe emotional intelligence plays in leading change in this environment? 00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:26.480 I say it is the critical component. 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:38.960 There's a reason that based on the recent report from Atlassian, they say that 96% of companies are failing to drive AI transformation. 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:42.000 Only 4% are actually really doing it. 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:42.799 Why is that? 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.200 Because we have a whole bunch of dumb senior leaders? 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:46.079 No, of course not. 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:50.000 They're all very experienced, have high IQ, and have been very successful. 00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:52.400 They're facing something they never faced before. 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:57.039 And the reality is change initiatives have always been in a massive failure mode, right? 00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:01.519 20% of change initiatives, even before AI, were successful. 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:09.519 And that's because they think of it as a technology challenge rather than a human adaptability challenge. 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:11.039 So, what do leaders need to do? 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:11.839 There are a few things. 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:12.720 I'm gonna go on and on. 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:13.599 This is actually what I do. 00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.400 I help leaders figure out what to do there, but a few things. 00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:19.119 Number one, manage your own stressors. 00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:24.960 You have to be able to think clearly and not freak out, or you're gonna make suboptimal decisions. 00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:27.440 And there's a higher level of stress than maybe you're ever used to. 00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:31.839 So you got to kind of take care of your own brain so you can think clearly and be able to do that. 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:33.759 Number two, adaptability. 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:46.799 You've got to be able to adapt and shift your thinking and be very agile and not be stuck in any ideas or old ways of working or that, because there's no nothing in the past that will tell you what you're doing in the future, right? 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:50.160 The third is have to develop your negative capability. 00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:52.640 It's a term that has emerged more lately. 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.000 And that basically is the ability to sit with not knowing. 00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:57.519 I don't know the answer. 00:24:57.680 --> 00:24:58.960 I have to let it emerge. 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:01.440 I don't have this clear path, right? 00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:04.000 This negative capability is actually really important, right? 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:05.359 Brene Brown's talk about it. 00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:06.559 Others have talked about it. 00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:11.200 And so that's a new sort of epic skill and capability that people need to have. 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:16.240 Because if you kind of just jump to something and try something just because you're under pressure, you're gonna, you're gonna fail. 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:17.039 Right. 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:21.920 Now, if it's an experiment and you're learning along the way, then hey, that's great, right? 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:25.839 That's something that you can iterate, but you do need to be able to manage yourself well. 00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:29.920 And then on the other side is you have to be able to earn trust, right? 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:36.000 The reason that things are not moving at the speed or direction people want is there's not this thing called trust. 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:44.480 People don't necessarily trust their leaders or where they're going or the alignment issue or that they're considering them in these decisions. 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:58.799 And so being willing to listen, being willing to factor in what people are thinking and feeling, doing something that does have a clear mission and where there is a sense of, okay, I'm trying to do what's best for the business and for the people, that goes a long way, right? 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:03.680 So you need curiosity, you need humility, you need to ask these questions. 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:05.359 And so this is not easy. 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:07.759 What I'm describing sounds like, wow, that sounds really hard. 00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:09.680 That's why most people don't do it. 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:19.359 The easy part is I'm really smart, I talk to my techno people, and I've got a three-page plan and strategy of how we're gonna roll out AI and everyone better do it. 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:20.799 That's the easy part. 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:25.440 It's the hard part that determines whether or not you succeed or fail, and that's squarely on the human side. 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:38.400 And so if you read in the news and just pay attention, you see all these companies that are, hey, they're seeing successes with AI adoption, or they see things really

changing, you'll see that human factor is very much front and center. 00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:43.519 You don't see any companies go, we told everyone to use the latest LLM and everyone did it, and voila, we're all successful. 00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:44.799 There's no story like that. 00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:47.519 So technology doesn't become the differentiator. 00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:52.960 If anything, technology can be duplicated by any competitor. 00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:56.319 It's the advantage that the people bring. 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:15.599 So as you're doing that, Rich, we'd love to get your thoughts for the listeners of the podcast on a few things you would urge them to do as managers and leaders of others, and a few things they should do for themselves when it comes to EQ. 00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:21.920 Surrounding yourself with people who will help you become a better version of yourself. 00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:28.160 So instead of giving a bunch of sort of generic ideas, I'll give you one really simple exercise. 00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:32.640 I learned it from Marshall Goldsmith, the world's most famous executive coach. 00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:35.200 He actually has given me some executive coaching. 00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:36.640 So I'm actually great for it. 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:38.240 It's called feed forward. 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:39.599 Feed forward. 00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:45.279 Go to five to seven trusted people and saying, I'm trying to improve, blank. 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:49.839 I'm trying to improve my empathy, I'm trying to improve my inspiration, I'm trying to improve my communication, whatever it is. 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:51.440 Okay, be thoughtful about what you want to say. 00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:52.240 I'm trying to improve. 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:54.799 Or if you really don't know, just say I'm trying to improve as a leader, okay? 00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:56.480 But the more specific, the better. 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.880 Can you give me a couple of ideas about what I could do? 00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:04.960 Have them tell you, write it down, say thank you. 00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:05.920 That's it. 00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:10.720 And then after talking to five or seven people, you get a better idea because you see some patterns. 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:13.839 Four out of the seven said the same thing, do it. 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:16.799 Now you may decide there's a bunch of crap, I don't want to do it. 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:17.599 That's up to you. 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:20.400 But if a bunch of people said it, there's probably something. 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:25.279 That is one of the most powerful self-awareness exercises there is. 00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:28.799 It also gives you a way to be able to act on it. 00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:34.720 And then the really great thing is go back to those people and go, I decided I'm going to put this into practice. 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:36.160 Can you hold me accountable? 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:37.279 Can you help me? 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:38.799 Because I'm working on it. 00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:41.599 And as I'm doing it, tell me if it's working or not. 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.839 And so you're honoring them by taking their advice. 00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:54.240 You're also displaying vulnerability and humility by asking them to help you as you go along, and they become co-invested in your success. 00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:56.880 And so it's a genius way of being able to grow in anything. 00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:01.519 And boy, if leaders would just do that, it's amazing how much impact we'd make. 00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:05.599 So that to me is a targeted way of self-awareness and an action plan. 00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:07.519 Those are great recommendations, Rich. 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:13.359 So for the audience to find out more about Epic Leadership, follow your writing and work. 00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.039 Where would you send them to, Rich? 00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:16.400 Yeah, two things. 00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:17.359 Follow me on LinkedIn. 00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:20.400 You can look for Richard Hua and you can find me there. 00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:24.880 But also go to epicleadership.com, ep-i-quleadership.com. 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:30.480 There's whole lots and lots about what I do and the things that I offer and my thoughts about things. 00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:32.400 I do post on LinkedIn every day. 00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:36.079 I have a Substack newsletter that I also write called Epic Success. 00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:45.599 And I will say one thing, Mohan, you made me think about something, which is we're now in a world where all relationships, we have been, but it's changer the AI. 00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:49.519 Relationships are either relational or transactional. 00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:50.799 Right. 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:55.440 And so if I'm going through McDonald's and I just want my order done correctly, it's transactional. 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:56.640 I don't really care about much else. 00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:59.039 I just want the right order and for you not to overcharge me. 00:29:59.200 --> 00:29:59.440 Fine. 00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:00.559 AI can do that. 00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:01.039 That's great. 00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:01.599 I don't really care. 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:04.640 I don't want a long-term relationship with the person who's selling me my Big Mac. 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:05.119 Okay. 00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:05.839 Fine. 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:11.920 But anything that's relational, AI cannot replace that. 00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:12.559 Right. 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:15.119 And so if I'm doing something transactional, use AI. 00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:15.440 That's fine. 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:17.920 Do the heavy lifting, the undifferentiated stuff. 00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:24.720 But for relational, we must be really thoughtful because that is based on this, this interpersonal, right? 00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:27.599 And so differentiating between the two. 00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:33.440 And I will say for anybody who's trying to drive AI transformation, it is not a transactional affair. 00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:35.920 It is very much a relational affair. 00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:40.240 That's why empathy, understanding, listening, even building these communities. 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:51.759 And in other ways that I'll underline that any AI transformation must be a movement, not an edict, not a strategy, not a program if they actually wanted to be successful at the organization. 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:52.799 So I love that framing. 00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:57.519 I so appreciate you being back on the podcast, sharing your fan script. 00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:05.279 Look forward to having more conversations as you reach more people on your way to impacting a billion. 00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.720 Thank you so much for joining the conversation, Richard Huao. 00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:10.000 Thank you as well. 00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:11.440 It's been a pleasure. 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:16.480 You have been listening to Partnering Leadership with your host, Mahan Tavakoli. 00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:32.640 If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a rating and review of the podcast on your favorite podcasting app and forward the conversation to a friend or colleague so you can help more people discover their purpose, grow professionally with meaning, and have a greater impact. 00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:38.960 For additional leadership insights and bonus content, visit us at partneringleadership.com.