النص الكامل لحلقة Ex-Major Label Exec: Chasing a Record Deal is a HUGE Mistake ft. Chris Anokute #286

00:02:07.379 --> 00:02:11.060 They're not looking for a deal like a deal is when you exit. 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:11.500 Right. 00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:12.580 You want to sell your catalog? 00:02:12.860 --> 00:02:13.759 Let's go make a deal. 00:02:13.939 --> 00:02:15.539 You want to sell your publishing? 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:16.860 Let's go make a deal. 00:02:17.020 --> 00:02:23.819 But when you're looking to find the right support to build a career, you're looking for a partner. 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:30.699 So let's get that deal conversation off the table right now because you're not looking for a deal. 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:32.060 You're looking for a partner. 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:33.680 You're looking for a business partner. 00:02:33.699 --> 00:02:44.840 And you have to come to the table with enough business acumen to understand what type of relationship you want with that partner and what type of investment you need to help scale your business. 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:46.300 I think that's it right there. 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:54.060 Like these people, we're talking about independent artists who just love making music and there's no like introductory music business course. 00:02:54.219 --> 00:02:55.199 But that's what I'm saying. 00:02:55.280 --> 00:03:01.479 It's like, it sounds like, are we dealing with a whole new caliber or type of artists then in today's day and age? 00:03:01.580 --> 00:03:01.639 Right. 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:02.759 Because they didn't have to do that. 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:07.000 You're asking a lot of an artist, bro, like to act like a startup founder. 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:07.400 I don't know. 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:13.379 Like I hear that and I'm like, damn, I don't know that a lot of like musicians and traditional artists have that in them. 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:14.620 I don't know if they're built like that. 00:03:14.900 --> 00:03:16.060 Then that's your problem. 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:19.159 I mean, the way I look at it is this, right? 00:03:19.219 --> 00:03:25.740 You're building a business that has value that you own, that you could potentially sell. 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:29.360 And it's going to take three to five years to build any business. 00:03:29.539 --> 00:03:29.659 Right. 00:03:29.659 --> 00:03:35.300 So at the end of the day, either you're a hobbyist or you're doing this for real. 00:03:35.500 --> 00:03:35.759 Right. 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:38.460 Like I love to sew. 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:44.219 I love to sew my own clothes or I want to build a fashion brand. 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:52.539 So you have to understand the difference between being a hobbyist and doing something for fun and doing something to make a living. 00:03:52.539 --> 00:03:57.000 And at the end of the day, this is the greatest time for artists to be entrepreneurs. 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:02.180 This is the greatest time in the history of the recorded business where everybody could play. 00:04:03.020 --> 00:04:07.159 And you have the right to play the game the way you want to play it. 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:13.580 There's enough to go around, but it's going to take time and it's going to take the right understanding of the business you're in. 00:04:13.699 --> 00:04:14.900 Like, I mean, T.I. 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:16.139 just dropped something. 00:04:16.379 --> 00:04:22.160 He was on an interview and he just talked about how one of the worst decisions he made was leaving Atlantic Records. 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:26.920 Because he didn't really understand what a major record company did for him. 00:04:26.980 --> 00:04:31.540 And he thought he wanted to just see what the other side looked like. 00:04:32.019 --> 00:04:32.139 Right. 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:34.480 To see if he could do it independently. 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:43.819 And he said it's been the toughest thing he's done in his career is try to build his own company independently and try to market and promote his music independently. 00:04:44.060 --> 00:04:47.620 And now he's learning what it is to really be a founder. 00:04:47.939 --> 00:04:48.199 Right. 00:04:48.220 --> 00:04:58.199 So I think for so long, for over the last five decades, artists were basically developed and put on by record companies. 00:04:58.459 --> 00:05:01.259 And all they had to do was shut up, sing and dance. 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:04.120 And everything happened around them. 00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:04.379 Right. 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:12.060 And those same people were also taking 80 to 90 percent of their profits, owning their masters. 00:05:12.060 --> 00:05:15.519 And then they cry bankruptcy after selling Diamond Album. 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:17.959 But whose fault is that? 00:05:18.100 --> 00:05:20.939 Now, I'm not saying artists shouldn't like. 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:29.040 Unfortunately, a lot of artists were exploited by record companies and exploited by managers and exploited by lawyers. 00:05:29.220 --> 00:05:36.300 And a lot of them just wanted to be famous and they made money, but they didn't make as much money as the people who supported them made. 00:05:36.300 --> 00:05:41.399 So now it's up to you as an artist to understand the business you're entering. 00:05:41.699 --> 00:05:51.939 It's up to you to understand where the money flows, how people get paid, what your rights are, how much you're going to make at the end of the day and how much it really costs to build a career. 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:59.740 Because if you knew how much it would cost to build a career, I promise you, you won't end up investing your own money because you got the money. 00:05:59.740 --> 00:06:04.819 And if you did have the money, you're actually going to go broke before you actually see a profit. 00:06:05.019 --> 00:06:13.180 So most investors, most partners, most labels, most managers will never make their money back on an investment. 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:19.519 I mean, just for a small scale investment in a recording artist, which is 100 grand.

00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:30.980 And if you're just basing it on streams and sales, you need 25 million streams to make 100 grand back. 00:06:31.300 --> 00:06:39.819 So if I'm an investor and I invested 100 grand into you, Ben, Henry, and you're starting at zero. 00:06:39.899 --> 00:06:46.519 And over the course of the last year, you only accumulated 300,000 streams. 00:06:46.660 --> 00:06:47.300 It's a bad investment. 00:06:47.300 --> 00:06:56.480 The chances of you getting to 25 million streams on, let's call it seven masters, my money's better invested in Bitcoin. 00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:03.500 I assure you that in the next 12 months, my 100 grand in Bitcoin will at least go to 175. 00:07:03.980 --> 00:07:06.220 And I don't have to put that with you 50-50. 00:07:06.220 --> 00:07:15.879 But if I invest 100 grand into you, you have to generate 40 million, 25 million streams for me to break even one. 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:21.379 And then I need another 25 million streams to make 100 grand profit. 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:27.240 And then I have to give you$50,000 if it's a 50-50 deal, a partnership. 00:07:27.540 --> 00:07:30.720 But that doesn't account for the payroll insurance. 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.500 That doesn't account for the staff salaries. 00:07:33.699 --> 00:07:37.740 That doesn't account for all the lights to run a business. 00:07:38.579 --> 00:07:40.959 So where's the money in the music industry? 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:42.959 So what are we doing then? 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:44.800 I'm like, I don't understand. 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:46.379 Should we all just hang it up? 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:47.319 Should we hang it up? 00:07:47.579 --> 00:07:47.899 No, no, no. 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:49.120 It's an offering. 00:07:49.660 --> 00:07:50.660 It's an offering. 00:07:51.079 --> 00:07:52.120 That's what we're doing. 00:07:52.339 --> 00:07:55.199 And that's the question you should ask yourself in the mirror. 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:57.240 What am I doing this for? 00:07:57.939 --> 00:07:59.259 You have to be obsessed. 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:00.040 Am I doing this to get rich? 00:08:00.420 --> 00:08:02.399 Am I doing this to make a living? 00:08:02.620 --> 00:08:03.800 What's making a living? 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:07.079 Because at the end of the day, don't let Instagram fool you. 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:09.500 People aren't making that kind of money. 00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:11.500 A lot of those cars are rentals. 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:13.620 A lot of that jewelry is rentals. 00:08:13.899 --> 00:08:17.860 A lot of that wealth you see online is not theirs. 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:28.699 So you think you're going to become a millionaire or a billionaire making music, but you don't understand that it may cost you a few million dollars just to get to a profit center. 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:31.120 And if you don't got that money, who's going to invest? 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:34.360 That's hence why you need a business partner or you need an investor. 00:08:34.580 --> 00:08:41.019 And it's also going to take you three to seven years to actually turn your business into a profit center. 00:08:41.179 --> 00:08:49.679 Do you have the endurance spiritually and emotionally to endure that rigmarole, that ride, that suffering, right? 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:50.620 Perhaps. 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:55.100 But do you also have the cash to sustain? 00:08:55.379 --> 00:08:59.879 And most people don't because they're uneducated about how the music industry works. 00:08:59.879 --> 00:09:08.259 They're uneducated about how much money is spent behind the scenes to get a million streams that only then generates $4,000 in billing, right? 00:09:08.500 --> 00:09:11.940 And I have a heart for the independent music industry. 00:09:12.019 --> 00:09:17.919 And I also have a heart for the investor and the business partner because I'm on every side. 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:19.120 I invest. 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:20.960 I'm a business partner. 00:09:21.220 --> 00:09:22.320 I'm independent. 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:23.980 I take money. 00:09:24.179 --> 00:09:25.379 I spend money. 00:09:25.659 --> 00:09:31.440 I've seen every side of the music industry at the highest level and at the indie level. 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:47.220 At me literally going in my bank account to spend $150,000 to develop a management client who I then had to put on the road and give her $35,000 in tour support just so I could keep her going. 00:09:47.220 --> 00:09:49.000 And we weren't making any money. 00:09:49.019 --> 00:09:50.200 So I lost the money. 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:58.320 It took me two years to turn her touring business into a business where she's actually making a$300 profit a show. 00:09:58.320 --> 00:09:59.320 And guess what? 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:06.740 It took me eight years to recoup$150,000. 00:10:07.340 --> 00:10:12.480 And this artist, for an independent artist, she's done quite well. 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:14.820 She's done over 40 million streams. 00:10:15.100 --> 00:10:16.620 That's not chicken shit. 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:18.460 That's real business. 00:10:18.500 --> 00:10:20.440 But I just recouped. 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:36.620 So now after recouping my$150,000 that didn't come from a bank, that didn't come from a corporation, that came from Chris Anokute, Bank of America account, after eight years, I finally recouped it. 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:40.399 Now I pay her 50% profit split. 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:51.820 So if I put that $150,000 into Bitcoin or Palantir or Intel eight years ago, I would have made $5 million. 00:10:52.299 --> 00:10:52.879 You know what I'm saying? 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:55.620 So we don't do this either to make money. 00:10:55.740 --> 00:10:57.600 We do this because this is our livelihood. 00:10:57.860 --> 00:10:59.159 This is our passion. 00:10:59.500 --> 00:11:01.000 And it's like a sport. 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:06.039 I don't think anybody went to Rucker Park thinking they were going to

become the next Jordan. 00:11:06.179 --> 00:11:07.000 They just want to ball. 00:11:07.299 --> 00:11:08.440 They just want to dunk on people. 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:10.559 They just want to impress their friends on the sideline. 00:11:10.779 --> 00:11:13.460 They just want to be a great athlete. 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:20.919 And then some people get into the business of the NBA and they get paid millions of dollars to play ball. 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:25.500 But I promise you, if you ask any ball player, they would play for free. 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:27.879 And it's just like the music industry. 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:28.960 I do it for free. 00:11:29.539 --> 00:11:33.259 If everything was taken care of, this is what I love. 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:34.220 This is my passion. 00:11:34.340 --> 00:11:38.179 And I think every artist has that same emotion about it. 00:11:38.179 --> 00:11:39.720 So it's about your why. 00:11:40.179 --> 00:11:42.080 Why am I doing this anyway? 00:11:42.379 --> 00:11:44.179 Perhaps it's an offering to God. 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:46.860 Perhaps this is therapeutic. 00:11:47.059 --> 00:11:50.879 Perhaps I'm writing a song that could change somebody's life. 00:11:51.059 --> 00:11:59.720 Perhaps I just want to go on the road and tour and be in front of people and watch magic permeate before my eyes. 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:06.320 Imagine writing a song in your bedroom and then singing that song for 300 people or 3000 people and having them sing every song. 00:12:06.419 --> 00:12:09.600 I mean, that's what I think your mission should be. 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:12.559 And then maybe you will also make money. 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:17.139 But nobody is promised a living pursuing the music industry. 00:12:17.139 --> 00:12:19.820 Because at the end of the day, it's an offering to God. 00:12:20.259 --> 00:12:22.120 And that's the way I still look at it. 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:24.679 So I know that you win some, you lose some. 00:12:24.860 --> 00:12:30.360 And every single day I wake up hoping that I run into a star. 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:32.879 That somebody sends me a hit record. 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:36.759 And I'm able to develop something. 00:12:37.259 --> 00:12:39.419 I'm able to create something. 00:12:39.700 --> 00:12:43.659 I'm able to be an orator for somebody. 00:12:43.659 --> 00:12:45.720 I'm able to be a vessel. 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.080 And the rest is not up to me. 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:49.399 The rest is up to the audience. 00:12:49.500 --> 00:12:51.659 And also God's will for my life. 00:12:52.259 --> 00:12:59.379 And that release of anxiety is the reason why I'm still in the music business at 43 years old. 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:01.139 I've been doing this since I was 17 years old. 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:04.139 I never had any desire to make money. 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:10.480 I said if I could make a school teacher's salary, which is 35 grand a year, I'd be in the music industry for the rest of my life. 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:12.620 And that's still the case for me. 00:13:12.740 --> 00:13:15.740 Now, granted, over the last 20 years, I've had success. 00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:16.539 I've made money. 00:13:16.620 --> 00:13:18.899 But I never pursued it for that reason. 00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:20.580 And that's why my heart's still in it. 00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:25.879 So I just think you've got to be in it for the right reasons and let go and let God. 00:13:26.059 --> 00:13:28.740 It's more spiritual than you know. 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:34.899 I don't want to get into it because a lot of people are woo-woo about God and faith. 00:13:34.899 --> 00:13:36.659 But I believe in God. 00:13:36.659 --> 00:13:37.539 I believe in Jesus. 00:13:37.539 --> 00:13:38.620 I believe in creation. 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:45.059 And at the end of the day, I believe in our eternity and our life to be of service to one another. 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:47.860 Everything else will be added on to you. 00:13:47.860 --> 00:13:53.240 Like, seek the kingdom of God and everything else will be added on to you. 00:13:53.340 --> 00:13:54.419 So I'm here to serve. 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:56.179 I'm here to be a truth teller. 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:58.740 I'm here to live in my purpose. 00:13:59.740 --> 00:14:03.179 And by the grace of God, everything else was added on to me. 00:14:03.460 --> 00:14:06.419 So, like, the good news is true. 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:08.659 And that's how I live my life. 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:10.960 And I don't want to, you know, project on anybody else. 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:13.039 But I just think everybody needs to just relax. 00:14:14.419 --> 00:14:22.340 So, when you said, you know, back in the day, artists just had to, like, show up, sing, dance, and do the thing, right? 00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:23.059 Yes. 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:29.179 Do you think that music is suffering now at all because they have to do so much more than that? 00:14:29.259 --> 00:14:30.379 Because that's kind of where my head goes. 00:14:30.379 --> 00:14:42.919 Because it's like, if they just had to show up, sing, and dance, then that made probably the singing and the dancing a hell of a lot better than maybe if they had to show up, sing, dance, market content, run ads, do admin, do finance, budgeting, touring, whatever. 00:14:43.299 --> 00:14:43.899 I don't know. 00:14:44.019 --> 00:14:46.000 Like, is the music suffering because of it? 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:50.039 The music isn't suffering because you're still making the pizza. 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:53.299 The business is suffering, right? 00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:53.639 See? 00:14:54.100 --> 00:15:00.100 Music, calling, purpose, business, commerce. 00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:07.259 Listen, it may be controversial, but we brought the two together, but music was an offering. 00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:13.159 So, let's focus on just being a servant to your calling and making great music. 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:13.620 Yeah. 00:15:13.620 -->

00:15:18.580 If you don't understand the business, insert business partner. 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:21.240 Maybe you shouldn't be independent. 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:31.820 Maybe you should bring in somebody and give them a real skin in the game so they can do all those other things that you don't want to do. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:33.220 There's enough to go around. 00:15:33.220 --> 00:15:45.179 Because if you've got to invest your hundred grand into developing your repertoire to get 10 million streams to only make 40 grand back and be 60K in debt, why don't you spend his or her money and give them a piece of the pie? 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:47.600 It doesn't have to be for perpetuity. 00:15:47.899 --> 00:15:49.820 It doesn't have to be for five albums. 00:15:49.820 --> 00:15:55.659 It could be for one project where you just partner with somebody to get your career off the ground. 00:15:55.879 --> 00:16:02.639 And then, like T.I., if you want to decide to be completely independent and fund things yourself, that's up to you. 00:16:02.740 --> 00:16:07.059 But I just think the idea of it's mine, mine, mine. 00:16:07.059 --> 00:16:10.139 And, yeah, it's your music, but it's not your business. 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:12.240 It's our business. 00:16:12.980 --> 00:16:21.799 And we should all share in the business, the manager, the label, and anybody who's investing their resources, their time, or their cash. 00:16:22.100 --> 00:16:26.440 And that's the philosophy that we have to bring back into the music industry. 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:32.340 Because there's a lot of chatter about F the labels, but how about the independent labels? 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.740 The manager, but you expect a manager to work for free for 20%? 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:37.720 Like, imagine that. 00:16:38.139 --> 00:16:39.860 I mean, at the end of the day, that should be illegal. 00:16:39.860 --> 00:16:44.820 Like, where else do you get the service of somebody working for free and you not paying them? 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:46.200 The lawyers don't work for free. 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:47.860 They charge $600 an hour. 00:16:48.059 --> 00:16:49.399 The accountant doesn't work for free. 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:51.820 He or she charges X amount of dollars an hour. 00:16:51.940 --> 00:16:53.639 But you expect your manager to work for free? 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:55.700 Why don't you pay me $300 an hour? 00:16:55.779 --> 00:16:57.120 And then you can get fired. 00:16:57.399 --> 00:16:58.919 You can just get fired at any time. 00:16:59.080 --> 00:16:59.820 No job security. 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:02.039 I've seen so many managers. 00:17:02.179 --> 00:17:07.819 So I even understand why managers can't really give their time and resources to artist development. 00:17:07.819 --> 00:17:09.819 Because they're doing it for free. 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:20.400 So if the manager isn't getting paid, if the label investor, business partner, is in six-figure debt, who do you think is going to do the work? 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:21.480 The artist. 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:23.140 So that's what I'm saying. 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:27.539 Like, the artist just needs to, like, rise to the occasion. 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:28.819 Do the work. 00:17:29.019 --> 00:17:30.099 Do all the work. 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:31.319 You're a founder. 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:38.619 You think founders are just, like, sitting around, like, playing the guitar and hoping that their product sells off the shore? 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:42.180 I mean, they're doing intensive work. 00:17:42.339 --> 00:17:44.119 They're working eight-hour days. 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:45.279 They're looking at charts. 00:17:45.339 --> 00:17:46.400 They're looking at sales. 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:48.039 They're looking at graphics. 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:49.579 They're designing the website. 00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:55.700 And if they don't have the ability to, they bring in partners and they give percentages of their company. 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:57.799 And this is not, like, a license. 00:17:58.359 --> 00:17:59.799 This is, like, for perpetuity. 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:07.940 So if I'm your partner in your startup and I have 30% of it, my relationship to the business is operations and graphics and design. 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:09.539 That's my job. 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:11.019 And I'm not getting paid. 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:11.799 I'm getting equity. 00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:15.480 But eventually, if the company sells, I'm getting paid. 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:17.700 So it's the same thing with the record business. 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:20.380 You've got to look at your career as a startup. 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:22.900 And you've got to bring in your C-suite. 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:24.640 You've got to bring in your business partners. 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:25.980 And then you've got to bring in your investor. 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:27.980 The investor could be in and out. 00:18:27.980 --> 00:18:31.319 But your business partners are in for the long ride. 00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:36.920 And I think managers should, like, take that manager word out of your equation. 00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:39.180 Your manager is your business partner. 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:40.519 That's your first business partner. 00:18:40.940 --> 00:18:44.059 And what piece of your business do you want to give your manager? 00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:48.380 Because to me, that piece shouldn't go away. 00:18:48.380 --> 00:19:01.640 If you're aligned with your manager and they have a vision and blueprint for the business plan on how to build it, then that manager should participate in that business for as long as that business is in the market. 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:03.160 And it could be one album. 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:07.599 But if I'm managing you for that album, it's not an album cycle. 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:12.599 As long as that album is generating revenue, I should own 20%. 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:13.880 That's it.

00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:16.779 I don't have to have an actual ownership stake. 00:19:16.779 --> 00:19:24.759 But I should have a revenue participation stake in that product for perpetuity because I manage that product. 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:30.559 So if people disagree with you, what are some of the common objections that people have to that approach? 00:19:30.819 --> 00:19:38.559 I had to take a break from today's episode, guys, because I'm terrified that too many of you are not collecting all the royalties that you're owed. 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:42.240 It's hard enough to make a dollar and you guys are leaving money on the table. 00:19:42.380 --> 00:19:48.960 Unlike your master royalties that are generated when you upload through your distributor, publishing royalties do not get collected by default. 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:53.619 Could you hypothetically register your song with hundreds of collection societies around the world? 00:19:53.619 --> 00:19:55.859 Yes, but ain't nobody got time for that. 00:19:55.940 --> 00:20:04.759 That's why a pub admin like KOSIGN, the sponsor of today's episode, is extremely beneficial to make sure that you get every single dollar that you're owed on the publishing side of the house. 00:20:04.940 --> 00:20:07.819 KOSIGN is backed by the fourth largest music publisher in the world. 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:13.140 So they have an absolute beast of a machine supporting you to make sure that you get every dollar that you're owed. 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:14.579 They're selective with who they work with. 00:20:14.700 --> 00:20:18.440 That way they can provide the best customer experience possible for their clients. 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:19.359 But it's free to apply. 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:21.180 So there's absolutely nothing to lose. 00:20:21.420 --> 00:20:22.400 The link's in the description. 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:23.839 Now let's get back to the episode. 00:20:24.619 --> 00:20:26.960 Well, if I want to fire my manager, then what? 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:29.720 Well, you can't fire your business partner. 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:30.579 You can buy them out. 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:31.599 Okay. 00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:32.420 Right? 00:20:32.660 --> 00:20:35.059 Well, my manager doesn't write the songs. 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:36.839 My manager isn't going on the road. 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:38.740 You guys aren't doing X, Y, Z. 00:20:39.299 --> 00:20:41.259 I'm not asking for 50%. 00:20:41.259 --> 00:20:43.160 I'm asking for 10 to 20. 00:20:43.420 --> 00:20:46.240 Well, my manager hasn't put any money into the pie. 00:20:46.660 --> 00:20:47.099 Okay. 00:20:47.099 --> 00:20:51.039 What if your manager paid according to their percentage? 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:59.779 So for every dollar you have to spend on marketing, I'll pay for $150 worth of it since I'm getting 15% of the business. 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:00.220 Right? 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:01.980 Just have a conversation. 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:03.640 Like, negotiate. 00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:05.319 Be a smart business person. 00:21:05.619 --> 00:21:08.299 Try to find the best scenario for you to have success. 00:21:08.299 --> 00:21:12.119 Because it's very hard to make money in the music business. 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:16.859 It is very hard to make money in the music business. 00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:20.519 It is very hard to make money in the music business. 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:21.140 Try. 00:21:21.140 --> 00:21:30.400 So when people say there's so much money in music, though, still, and they quote all these stats about how much there's this and that and revenues, like, where's the disconnect here? 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:31.559 Because I'm hearing you say it. 00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:33.180 Like, what's actually true? 00:21:33.259 --> 00:21:35.299 There's a lot of money in the music business for superstars. 00:21:35.740 --> 00:21:38.920 There's a lot of money in the music business for catalog. 00:21:39.420 --> 00:21:42.940 Anything that was released 18 to 24 months or later. 00:21:42.940 --> 00:21:52.960 I mean, at the end of the day, most of the major record companies, Universal, Warner, Sony, most of their money is coming from dead people. 00:21:53.339 --> 00:21:54.380 Oh, no. 00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:57.079 And those deals were very exploitive. 00:21:57.339 --> 00:21:59.319 They owned the rights for perpetuity. 00:21:59.539 --> 00:22:02.960 They were paying the artists 14% royalty. 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:05.359 All costs were recouped against the artists. 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:08.460 They were in a profit center 40 years ago. 00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:09.940 And they're still in a profit center. 00:22:09.940 --> 00:22:17.279 And they're basically leveraging that catalog and getting paid, you know, market share royalties from YouTube, from Apple, from Spotify. 00:22:17.539 --> 00:22:18.599 They're getting paid all over the place. 00:22:18.940 --> 00:22:22.819 They're getting paid from all these AI companies licensing the catalog. 00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:24.240 You know what I mean? 00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:25.420 So that's where the money is. 00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:27.359 And then it's in superstars on tour. 00:22:27.740 --> 00:22:30.700 No developing artists is making any money on tour. 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:39.920 And those superstars, through the servicing of major business partners, you want to call them record companies, I'll call them business partners. 00:22:39.940 --> 00:22:55.759 Or investors have filled the gravitas of these superstars to sell 20,000 tickets because they took their songs to radio and spent a quarter million dollars multiple times. 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:04.200 Because they paid for tour support over the course of three years to get them from 300 seats to 3,000 seats to 5 to 10, right? 00:23:04.420 --> 00:23:10.180 And now these artists are making millions of dollars on the road and Live Nation owns every venue and the music industry is healthy. 00:23:10.380 --> 00:23:12.099 But let's

talk about the zero. 00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:14.240 I'm not talking about Jay-Z. 00:23:14.539 --> 00:23:16.539 I'm not talking about Beyoncé. 00:23:16.539 --> 00:23:18.920 I'm not talking about even Sombr. 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:23.619 I'm talking about 90% of the people on the planet who are pursuing music. 00:23:24.140 --> 00:23:25.180 There's no money. 00:23:25.819 --> 00:23:28.660 So that's the people we have to educate. 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:30.440 That's what we're doing. 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:31.220 That's what we're here. 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:32.079 Yeah, my people. 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:33.140 Thank God for us, bro. 00:23:33.140 --> 00:23:34.380 That's the audience we have to talk to. 00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:35.759 There's money, of course. 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:37.019 There's no money in America. 00:23:37.299 --> 00:23:39.559 Okay, they're still printing cash. 00:23:39.980 --> 00:23:42.119 We're in a trillion dollar deficit. 00:23:42.500 --> 00:23:43.819 Nobody has jobs. 00:23:44.259 --> 00:23:46.460 Well, the rich are getting richer. 00:23:46.460 --> 00:23:47.200 That's what I'm saying. 00:23:47.420 --> 00:23:49.279 There's money there at the top. 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:59.220 But what about the other 90%, which is the average customer, the average citizen who wants to sing and dance and pursue their art? 00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:00.400 There's no money. 00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:01.799 It's hard to make money. 00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:03.619 It's hard to develop repertoire. 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:05.640 It's hard to pay for recordings. 00:24:05.900 --> 00:24:07.319 It's hard to market yourself. 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:08.880 Who's shooting the videos? 00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:10.160 Who's paying the videographers? 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:11.460 Who's running ads? 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:15.339 Even if it's 100 bucks a week, a lot of people can't afford to spend 100 bucks a week. 00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:22.940 Some of the record companies are spending $150,000 a week to run ads on Dominic Fike on one song. 00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:24.740 How are you going to compete? 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:26.819 But I got a $100 budget. 00:24:26.980 --> 00:24:29.779 Okay, but I don't even have $100 to spend a week. 00:24:29.900 --> 00:24:31.559 That's $400 a month. 00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:33.240 I can barely pay my rent. 00:24:33.339 --> 00:24:33.880 So that's what I'm saying. 00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:37.640 There's no money in the lower class and in the middle class. 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:39.220 It's all in the upper class. 00:24:39.220 --> 00:24:44.180 And that's why those companies are still printing cash because of that catalog. 00:24:44.539 --> 00:24:45.619 It's that simple. 00:24:45.700 --> 00:25:01.140 But the future could be healthy if we change the mentality of how we're seeing the business and where the money is flowing and finding the right partnership so we could actually get to a place where we can earn. 00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:03.180 Okay, let's walk

through that. 00:25:03.299 --> 00:25:04.140 That sounds hopeful. 00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:06.759 I mean, let's go positive for a second. 00:25:07.299 --> 00:25:10.220 So it's going to take you three to five years. 00:25:10.420 --> 00:25:10.660 Okay. 00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:13.279 I'm up for it, Chris. 00:25:13.420 --> 00:25:14.140 Okay, I'm up for it. 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.779 First things first, make sure you're mentally healthy. 00:25:19.140 --> 00:25:19.640 Oh, nope. 00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:20.640 I'm not. 00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:27.039 Okay, well, make sure you're spiritually and emotionally mature to handle. 00:25:27.319 --> 00:25:27.920 Working on it. 00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:29.539 The ride of your life. 00:25:29.539 --> 00:25:30.079 Yeah. 00:25:30.420 --> 00:25:30.720 True. 00:25:31.700 --> 00:25:50.000 You need at least 500, at the minimum, to release a song where you control the rights so people aren't telling you how to move the master around and you don't have to get anybody else's approval. 00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:52.240 You need at least 500 bucks. 00:25:52.240 --> 00:26:10.660 Unless you're making the music yourself because you're a DIY artist who produces and writes their own songs and mixes and masters, you need to hire people and pay them a couple hundred bucks for a production. 00:26:10.660 --> 00:26:16.359 You know, $50, $100 for engineering and mastering, right? 00:26:16.819 --> 00:26:19.720 You got to pay something or you don't pay anything. 00:26:19.940 --> 00:26:24.900 Then I own half of your master as a songwriter and as a producer. 00:26:24.900 --> 00:26:29.059 And I'm validated and asking for that because I did a service for you. 00:26:29.180 --> 00:26:32.460 So if you can't pay for it, then I'm going to make my money on the back end. 00:26:32.539 --> 00:26:34.119 And now I own your master. 00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:38.539 And if you ever decide to exploit that master, you need my approval. 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:46.980 So why would you want to put yourself in a position where you have to get somebody's sign off on your own identity, your music, right? 00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:50.480 So you got to at least have something where you control your music, right? 00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:50.759 Yeah. 00:26:51.119 --> 00:27:02.059 And then you got to like build audience and advertise and shoot content either with your iPhone, which is free, but you still got to pay for something that has a good camera. 00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:08.640 And then you got to market it where you could get it to some people and start building an audience, right? 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:14.960 It could be 30 people on each release, but you know, the, you know, the for you page killed the followers. 00:27:15.079 --> 00:27:16.900 So I don't care how many followers you have. 00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:20.839 You got to get your music to people who are looking for that. 00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:21.099 Right. 00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:22.680 And it's all about attention. 00:27:23.180 --> 00:27:24.619 How do you get their attention? 00:27:24.619 --> 00:27:39.339 So there's ways to build commerce by, you know, running ads and building fan pages and running meta ads on Facebook and IG just to get your music to an audience that may not be looking for it. 00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:44.640 So they could eventually click through and save and add and share. 00:27:44.859 --> 00:27:48.019 And now you got five customers on your first release. 00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:49.680 Then you got to do it again. 00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:51.720 Then you got to do it again. 00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:53.539 Another 500 bucks. 00:27:54.200 --> 00:27:56.980 You got to put out like 20 songs before you get any traction. 00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:03.640 The idea of going viral off of your first release, you have a better chance hitting the big six. 00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:04.559 Okay. 00:28:04.779 --> 00:28:05.900 You're not going to go viral, right? 00:28:06.099 --> 00:28:07.279 And then monetize the viral. 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.920 Doesn't mean you can monetize it because there's a lot of songs that go viral. 00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:14.940 And then you look at the streams and they have 2000 streams. 00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:16.299 That's 20 cents. 00:28:16.420 --> 00:28:16.759 You know what I mean? 00:28:16.759 --> 00:28:24.819 So at the end of the day, it's consistency, behavior, repetition, evolution of your brand. 00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:27.180 And then one plus one equals four. 00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:33.039 By the time you're 20 songs in, you may have spent just on opportunity costs. 00:28:33.819 --> 00:28:34.660 Ten grand. 00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:35.700 Do you got ten grand? 00:28:36.059 --> 00:28:36.519 Okay. 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:37.299 You don't have ten grand. 00:28:37.299 --> 00:28:37.859 Looking at Henry. 00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:38.880 Okay. 00:28:38.980 --> 00:28:40.019 You don't have ten grand. 00:28:40.019 --> 00:28:41.519 So now insert business partner. 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:42.240 Right? 00:28:42.500 --> 00:28:44.000 And who's that business partner? 00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:46.460 It could be your manager who got ten grand. 00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:53.759 But why should your manager invest ten grand if they don't have any rights or ownership for the long game and they can get fired? 00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:55.420 So they don't want to invest it. 00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:57.579 So a label wants to invest it. 00:28:57.799 --> 00:28:58.660 Good or bad. 00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:03.380 And I'll invest ten grand into you putting out ten masters. 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:06.819 And I want to own those masters with you. 00:29:07.019 --> 00:29:08.579 I don't want you to own my masters. 00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:09.559 Okay. 00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:10.720 Then I won't invest ten grand. 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:12.259 My shirt says own your masters. 00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:12.599 Yeah. 00:29:12.660 --> 00:29:13.819 You just have the right shirt on today. 00:29:14.019

--> 00:29:15.480 You have the right to own it. 00:29:15.500 --> 00:29:17.519 And you also have the right to pay for it. 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:17.799 Yeah. 00:29:18.420 --> 00:29:19.380 They typically come together. 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:21.740 I believe in artists owning their rights. 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:22.200 Yep. 00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:24.279 But you also got to pay for it. 00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:27.599 Because let's assume you decided to start a sneaker line. 00:29:27.740 --> 00:29:27.920 Yeah. 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:28.160 Right? 00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:28.559 Okay. 00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:30.220 Those sneakers you're wearing. 00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:34.279 And I decided that I want to help you scale that sneaker line. 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:36.819 And I feel like you've been making these sneakers in your bedroom. 00:29:37.019 --> 00:29:39.019 And I can help you sell more sneakers. 00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:41.519 So I'm going to give you a quarter million dollars. 00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:44.059 And I want 20% of your business. 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:44.759 Don't touch my equity. 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:45.839 Right? 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:48.119 That's insane. 00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:50.000 I can help you take it to the next level. 00:29:50.299 --> 00:29:51.900 And you don't have to spend a nickel. 00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:54.779 And there's a great chance that we fail. 00:29:55.220 --> 00:29:56.680 I lost a quarter million dollars. 00:29:56.839 --> 00:29:57.559 You didn't lose anything. 00:29:57.559 --> 00:29:59.000 You just gave a 20% equity. 00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:02.640 So you got to be smart about what are we giving up? 00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:08.859 See, once upon a time, the record companies had these six album deals. 00:30:08.859 --> 00:30:12.920 It would take you 20 years to get through your deal. 00:30:13.220 --> 00:30:13.779 Yeah. 00:30:14.019 --> 00:30:14.279 Right? 00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:16.480 You didn't own anything. 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:19.019 You had a 14% royalty. 00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:23.200 You sold 20 million albums, but you haven't recouped. 00:30:23.299 --> 00:30:27.019 Because every single time you had success, they gave you a bigger advance. 00:30:27.019 --> 00:30:29.380 They charged it against your 14% royalty. 00:30:29.380 --> 00:30:31.480 And you're always short. 00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:33.680 And then the debt just gets higher. 00:30:33.859 --> 00:30:36.160 And now they exercise the option. 00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:37.380 They give you another advance. 00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:39.019 And all of a sudden, you're in a deal. 00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:41.740 And there's language in these deals. 00:30:42.099 --> 00:30:47.220 It has to be commercially and satisfactory to the record company. 00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:54.680 So if I told you I don't like the song, I don't like the production, I don't have to release it. 00:30:54.920 --> 00:31:00.759 And now you're three years trying to finish a 14-song album. 00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:04.180 And I can keep on telling you I'm not going to accept it. 00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:05.000 Which is subjective. 00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:07.319 That was in the contracts. 00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:08.960 You couldn't get out of it. 00:31:09.579 --> 00:31:13.380 I'm talking about let me invest in seven songs. 00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:16.599 You have 100% creative control. 00:31:16.940 --> 00:31:19.400 I can't stop you from releasing music. 00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:24.500 I'm going to put in the contract that I will release a single every eight weeks. 00:31:24.700 --> 00:31:29.279 I want 30% ownership in those seven songs for perpetuity. 00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:31.700 And I'm going to invest $25,000 into it. 00:31:31.819 --> 00:31:37.619 So what do you think an artist needs to do to secure that first 10K investment that you mentioned? 00:31:37.619 --> 00:31:41.339 Because I think that's a reasonable number. 00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:44.099 It's not anything crazy, but it is still a good amount of money. 00:31:44.259 --> 00:31:46.319 At what stage in their career do they need to be? 00:31:46.619 --> 00:31:50.720 And who are these people that are giving artists 10K right now? 00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:56.339 There's so many entrepreneurs who would love to be in the record business. 00:31:56.660 --> 00:32:04.319 Who would love to invest $20,000 into a girl they met at church that they think is going to be the next Whitney Houston. 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:08.140 And they made some money in the plumbing business. 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:09.700 And they have some money sitting around. 00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:13.559 And they want to invest their money into helping this young girl build her dreams. 00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:16.920 So it could legitimately be people that they just know. 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:19.000 Anybody. 00:32:19.579 --> 00:32:20.700 Friends and family. 00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:22.000 That's how founders. 00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:26.680 They first do a friends and family round before they do their Series A. 00:32:26.680 --> 00:32:40.059 And your friends and family are usually your uncle, your auntie, your grandmother, your neighbor next door who basically sold a family business for $10 million and has a few dollars sitting around and loves Sally's little daughter that sings. 00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:43.960 Wherever they are, you got to use your network and ask. 00:32:44.180 --> 00:32:45.759 Because a closed mouth don't get fed. 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:50.180 And find your investor or your business partner. 00:32:50.180 --> 00:32:52.400 Now, I don't always want it. 00:32:52.740 --> 00:32:55.180 Where you're taking the money from depends on the deal. 00:32:55.380 --> 00:33:01.680 Because if the money comes with also expertise, then that money is more valuable to me. 00:33:02.380 --> 00:33:05.839 If the money comes with no expertise, then that money is less valuable. 00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:09.160 But that also requires less scrutiny. 00:33:09.619 -->

00:33:15.599 Maybe you don't want somebody telling you how it should sound or giving you notes on the artwork. 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:25.839 Maybe you just want an investor, an angel, to leave you alone and just collect their 15%, 20% based on sales and they may not ever get their money back. 00:33:25.940 --> 00:33:29.339 So that's why I said you got to look for an investor or a business partner. 00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:31.420 A business partner comes with more weight. 00:33:31.819 --> 00:33:33.220 They actually have value. 00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:34.759 They actually have expertise. 00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:36.380 They have a Rolodex. 00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:40.460 They have an understanding of how to scale your business. 00:33:40.700 --> 00:33:42.460 An investor may just have the cash. 00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:42.880 Yeah. 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:49.720 And I've seen many scenarios where somebody found an investor that gave them 20 grand to make an EP. 00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:52.220 And they don't know what to do. 00:33:52.420 --> 00:33:53.920 They don't know anything about the music business. 00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:55.019 But I believe in her. 00:33:55.140 --> 00:33:57.440 And I just wanted to invest in her dreams. 00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:03.039 But to build that traction, you just got to show the audience, whoever that is. 00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:09.679 That audience could be your uncle, who's an oil billionaire in Texas, that follows you on Instagram. 00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:17.739 And that audience could be actual customers who are activating your streams and your commerce. 00:34:18.019 --> 00:34:22.639 But you got to show the audience that you're serious. 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:23.159 Yeah. 00:34:23.260 --> 00:34:24.219 And it's not a hobby. 00:34:24.219 --> 00:34:27.659 And you're actually focused on building a brand. 00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:33.579 And you're consistently looking to make music or promote your music or release something. 00:34:33.780 --> 00:34:34.440 Either or. 00:34:34.659 --> 00:34:37.619 Because there's a lot of times where you never release a song and you find an investor. 00:34:37.780 --> 00:34:39.679 But it's because I'm watching you socially. 00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:40.619 I'm seeing you online. 00:34:40.619 --> 00:34:41.900 I'm seeing you post a lot. 00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:44.260 I'm seeing you promote yourself singing covers. 00:34:44.260 --> 00:34:52.019 And then I'm like, oh, I know what to do if I invested and I took you from the cover to an original song. 00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:56.059 Because I have a recording studio and I have songwriters and producers who can help me make original music. 00:34:56.260 --> 00:34:57.039 So it all depends. 00:34:57.179 --> 00:35:02.000 But you just got to show the audience, whoever that is, that you're serious about this endeavor. 00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:05.699 So, you know, you kind of mentioned what record deals used to look like. 00:35:05.699 --> 00:35:08.679 Some of the most common, like

royalty, you know, percentages, etc. 00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:15.280 And the crazy part about what the record deals used to look like is that 71% of you guys are not subscribed to the channel who are listening right now. 00:35:15.500 --> 00:35:19.739 I humbly ask that you like the video, leave a comment and subscribe to the channel. 00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:20.519 Thank you so much. 00:35:20.619 --> 00:35:21.280 Yes, please. 00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:22.940 It's insane to do that. 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:23.960 One more time, baby. 00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:25.039 Let's go, Chris. 00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:31.780 Anyway, so you were telling us about like the most common terms that, you know, you saw in record deals from the past, right? 00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:33.139 Major labels still exist. 00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:34.239 Obviously, they're still doing deals. 00:35:34.380 --> 00:35:37.039 What do some of the major label deals look like today? 00:35:37.659 --> 00:35:38.679 Anything and everything. 00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:40.639 They'll do any kind of deal to get the market share. 00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:47.840 They don't care to even have ownership because most of the people who run those companies will be gone before there's any exit anyway. 00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:53.340 If that company decides to do an IPO or sell its entire catalog. 00:35:53.920 --> 00:36:03.000 So these guys are just honestly keeping the lights on and putting a lot of money and bonuses in their pocket based on market share. 00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:08.139 And they could care less if they own your rights anymore because they're making so much money off of dead people. 00:36:08.340 --> 00:36:11.159 It's not going to make a difference either way. 00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:11.840 Wow. 00:36:12.179 --> 00:36:19.599 So, you know, how does that impact the artist that is open to like a major record label deal? 00:36:20.019 --> 00:36:20.539 Leverage. 00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:21.400 Leverage. 00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:25.059 Like, honestly, there's no everybody's on the same table. 00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:28.900 Like, once upon a time, you would compare major deals to indie deals. 00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:29.679 They're all the same. 00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:33.579 Labels are happy to give you a licensing deal. 00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:38.260 They're happy to have ownership for 12 years and then give you your rights back. 00:36:38.420 --> 00:36:45.219 They're happy to do a short term deal where it's six to 12 masters with a mutual option. 00:36:45.219 --> 00:36:57.900 They're they've changed their entire business model because they know that at the end of the day, they don't have the same power they once did to lie, cheat, steal and gatekeep. 00:36:58.500 --> 00:37:01.619 So they know that the rumors out. 00:37:01.900 --> 00:37:03.719 We don't really need you. 00:37:03.860 --> 00:37:05.300 We just need your money. 00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:10.199 And a lot of the people who work at these companies don't even understand how

the music industry works. 00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:11.340 Believe it or not. 00:37:11.619 --> 00:37:11.940 Oh, no. 00:37:11.940 --> 00:37:16.119 They're so brainwashed and so stuck in their old ways. 00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:20.559 They don't even understand the customer and how the customer activates with new artists. 00:37:20.739 --> 00:37:24.420 So they're just happy to still be in the frontline business. 00:37:24.739 --> 00:37:34.059 And they're happy to do any kind of deal that's competitive to get them to artists that therefore gets them the market share that artist is successful. 00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:36.000 They'll even overpay for the deal. 00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:41.199 Well, so help me understand like where they're missing the mark then in their understanding of like the customer, right? 00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:43.679 Like what do they think versus what is reality? 00:37:43.900 --> 00:37:44.320 I'm curious. 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:46.760 Just like where's the disconnect, right? 00:37:46.900 --> 00:37:51.099 Like they're still figuring it out day by day. 00:37:51.219 --> 00:37:56.340 They're learning through the behavior of the audience and they're adjusting accordingly. 00:37:56.340 --> 00:38:07.000 I mean, a lot of these companies are firing their entire radio departments because radio drove consumption for most of the music industry's existence, right? 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:26.119 They're firing these salespeople who would literally talk to big retail like Walmart and Best Buy and Sam Goodie Mob and talk about how many records they're going to ship to get that first week number so they can get their bottom line paid off of the first week and then move on. 00:38:26.460 --> 00:38:28.659 Because distribution is free. 00:38:28.860 --> 00:38:31.579 I can upload a song right now and it's distributed worldwide. 00:38:31.579 --> 00:38:44.579 So all of these like entities inside the major corporation, whether it's marketing departments, radio departments, sales departments are now evolving and it's requiring less people to do the job. 00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:47.079 So they're learning as they go. 00:38:47.260 --> 00:38:48.280 They're downsizing. 00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:55.739 They're doing a lot of cost saving, saving hundreds of millions of dollars on executive talent. 00:38:56.260 --> 00:39:00.679 And they're basically being more reactive than proactive. 00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:02.579 They don't have to be proactive. 00:39:02.739 --> 00:39:03.739 They don't need to do artist development. 00:39:03.980 --> 00:39:10.280 All they need to do is let it be developed and then they can overpay for it and see where they can help you scale it. 00:39:10.460 --> 00:39:25.219 If they even know how to even scale careers now, because once upon a time we could tell you exactly what was going to happen based on the money we spend, based on the producers we hire, based on going to mainstream radio. 00:39:25.219 --> 00:39:38.199 Based on a tour, based on a late night

TV performance, based on an ad in MTV or VH1 or BET, we knew exactly how many records we would sell. 00:39:38.380 --> 00:39:43.559 We knew exactly how much money we would make and we would know exactly how to get to the bottom line every quarter. 00:39:43.860 --> 00:39:46.619 Now we're all in the same game. 00:39:46.619 --> 00:40:03.880 So it's almost easier to manage your risk by supporting the legacy artists because you know they're good for X amount than to invest in artist development and frontline, like new music business. 00:40:04.179 --> 00:40:07.239 That's why you see all these companies acquiring companies. 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:09.559 They're just acquiring revenue streams. 00:40:09.579 --> 00:40:11.539 They're acquiring catalogs. 00:40:11.539 --> 00:40:16.280 They're acquiring distribution units so they can get more pennies on the dollar, right? 00:40:16.380 --> 00:40:23.159 So if I acquire Fuga downtown, I'm acquiring hundreds of thousands of titles, Universal. 00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:30.440 Whether these titles are making millions of dollars a year individually or not, one plus one equals 40. 00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:34.800 In this case, because I acquired the whole independent distribution system, right? 00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:48.179 Therefore, increasing the value of my company, therefore increasing our market share in the music business, therefore increasing the money Spotify pays me every quarter based on market share payouts. 00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:59.340 If you really understand the business, it's a race to the bottom because they know that there's no artist development happening and they don't even want to spend the money to do it. 00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:12.639 So they'd rather just acquire, acquire, acquire, insert independent company, insert independent mindset of how you could maneuver through the business because there's no more tape. 00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:14.599 Everybody could play on the field. 00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:15.780 Now we need money. 00:41:16.099 --> 00:41:18.179 So where are those investors coming from? 00:41:18.500 --> 00:41:23.840 And that's why it's about finding the right business partner that works for your situation. 00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:26.679 There's no two wrongs, two rights. 00:41:26.900 --> 00:41:30.920 Like everybody's in the same battlefield of trying to break new artists. 00:41:31.420 --> 00:41:42.000 Atlantic Records has the same pressure in Tom, Dick and Harry Records to break a new artist because we can't manufacture audience. 00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:54.880 We can't brainwash audience anymore because those mainstream pillars that would once upon a time do that radio, TV, late night and big touring. 00:41:55.219 --> 00:41:59.139 We don't control and no disrespect. 00:41:59.480 --> 00:42:02.400 They don't influence the customer like they once did. 00:42:02.900 --> 00:42:03.920 That's huge. 00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:04.380 Yeah. 00:42:04.900 --> 00:42:05.260 Yeah. 00:42:05.500 --> 00:42:08.840 The way that the audience is influenced has just totally changed. 00:42:09.139 --> 00:42:10.059 It's totally changed. 00:42:10.059 --> 00:42:15.199 I mean, like who would have ever thought streamers would be more powerful than fucking late night shows? 00:42:15.420 --> 00:42:15.719 I mean, right. 00:42:15.860 --> 00:42:16.219 Like, I don't know. 00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:20.480 I mean, that's the core part of what these labels probably still are, to your point, reacting to. 00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:23.340 They're not seeing that ahead of time. 00:42:23.579 --> 00:42:25.539 I mean, they're just having to figure that out as they go. 00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:28.619 And so, yeah, the like big legacy acts to way more comfortable. 00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:30.659 They know what the revenues are going to be. 00:42:30.820 --> 00:42:32.739 It's very consistent over the years, I'm sure. 00:42:32.940 --> 00:42:38.019 And they can play the same games, like the same radio games and the same arena touring and all that. 00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:38.280 Right. 00:42:38.500 --> 00:42:39.500 And it doesn't work. 00:42:39.500 --> 00:42:44.239 And they learn through behavior and the consequences of their behavior. 00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:59.840 Because if it costs you $150,000 to go to urban mainstream radio and a quarter million dollars to go to top 40 radio and you actually spend the money and you don't see the result commercially, which is streams and sales. 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:00.239 Yep. 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:00.579 Right. 00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:06.300 And even tickets sold, which the labels don't really participate in so they could care less. 00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:07.699 They care about the product. 00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:08.760 Selling records. 00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:10.920 So you spend money at mainstream radio. 00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:12.059 It doesn't translate. 00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:22.539 You put an artist on national TV and you spend $50,000 on a creative director for them to sing and dance on SNL or any of those stupid talk shows. 00:43:22.539 --> 00:43:24.219 And nothing happens. 00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:31.239 And then an artist goes on iShowSpeed's live for free. 00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:34.199 And it's like 200% jumping streams. 00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:34.559 Yeah. 00:43:34.900 --> 00:43:35.699 You know what I mean? 00:43:35.699 --> 00:43:43.059 So that's the behavior that happens that is forcing those major systems to adjust. 00:43:43.059 --> 00:43:46.659 It's just based on audience behavior. 00:43:46.659 --> 00:43:49.039 So they're learning as they go. 00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:56.860 And streaming is becoming a new medium to break out artists, to introduce product into marketplace. 00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:03.920 And I'll tell you right now, my young nephews and nieces, 14, 16, they don't have any desire to be an artist. 00:44:04.099 --> 00:44:05.179 They want to be streamers. 00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:05.480 Yep. 00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:09.940 My son, who's six years

old, he said, I say, Phoenix, what do you want to be when you grow up? 00:44:10.059 --> 00:44:11.360 He's like, I want to be a YouTuber. 00:44:11.900 --> 00:44:12.340 Yep. 00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:13.320 Same with my nephew. 00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:14.719 He didn't say he wants to be Michael Jackson. 00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:16.659 He didn't say he wants to be Bruno Mars. 00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:17.019 Yeah. 00:44:17.099 --> 00:44:18.480 He wants to be a YouTuber. 00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:21.360 So that's what I'm saying is the in real life experience. 00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:24.500 I think we're going into the personality era. 00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:24.940 Yeah. 00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:34.760 Like if I don't see you, if I don't know it's live, if I can't see any like imperfection in the feed, I don't believe it. 00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:35.739 Right. 00:44:35.900 --> 00:44:38.179 How do I know I'm actually talking to you guys right now? 00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:39.380 Yeah. 00:44:39.500 --> 00:44:40.980 Hormozi calls it the trust era. 00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:42.300 It's like, how do I know? 00:44:42.460 --> 00:44:42.820 How do I try? 00:44:42.820 --> 00:44:49.300 I got to hear the person be a human to earn trust with them because almost everything else is being commoditized at this point. 00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:49.820 Yeah. 00:44:49.980 --> 00:44:52.800 So those long form, big budget videos, waste of time. 00:44:52.940 --> 00:44:53.139 Yeah. 00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:56.219 You performing on a pre-taped network. 00:44:56.659 --> 00:44:57.420 How do I know? 00:44:57.659 --> 00:44:57.960 Right. 00:44:59.340 --> 00:45:00.599 How do I know it's you? 00:45:00.900 --> 00:45:03.960 But AI now you can manipulate even movement. 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:08.099 So I just think we're in the era of personality and in real life. 00:45:08.219 --> 00:45:22.380 And I think it's exciting for innovation, for disruption, for artists to kind of try things because there's no rules anymore. 00:45:22.380 --> 00:45:28.460 But with that said, it's going to take a long time to actually get to the money. 00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:31.280 So you got to enjoy the ride. 00:45:31.280 --> 00:45:33.599 You have to like have endurance. 00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:36.260 You have to have lots of repertoire. 00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:47.119 You got to have something that makes you an individual, that makes you feel different or similar. 00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:48.000 Right. 00:45:48.099 --> 00:45:49.559 Whatever that is, whatever I'm looking for. 00:45:49.659 --> 00:45:50.880 Like, I never seen anything like that. 00:45:50.980 --> 00:45:54.920 Or he feels just like he's he's that's my life. 00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:55.659 That's my story. 00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:56.599 Whatever it is. 00:45:56.599 --> 00:46:03.760 And it takes repeated impressions over a long period of time to build a brand. 00:46:03.940 --> 00:46:07.380 And that requires consistency before I trust the brand. 00:46:07.539 --> 00:46:11.639 And that consistency may have to occur over the course of 36 months. 00:46:11.659 --> 00:46:17.519 So you need enough gas in your tank for you to keep that car on the road for 36 months. 00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:20.679 And that's where the business partner or investor comes in. 00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:23.000 And it doesn't have to be for your whole career. 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:28.219 But if I was an artist in this day and age, I would not spend my own money trying to develop my artistry. 00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:32.880 I will give up 50 percent of my business for a group of masters. 00:46:33.659 --> 00:46:34.139 Right. 00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:47.880 To get a little further ahead so I can start earning some money and actually invest in myself and then own a larger stake in my rights or own even all the rights. 00:46:48.059 --> 00:46:48.139 Yeah. 00:46:48.219 --> 00:46:50.900 But so why do you think a lot of artists are adverse to that? 00:46:50.900 --> 00:46:53.480 Because they're uneducated by bad lawyers. 00:46:53.780 --> 00:46:54.960 And that's the bottom line. 00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:56.780 The lawyers have ruined the industry. 00:46:57.179 --> 00:47:00.340 And I can't wait for them to be AI'd out of business. 00:47:03.219 --> 00:47:05.239 Hey, Ryan Schmidt, he doesn't mean you. 00:47:06.059 --> 00:47:07.260 No, no, no, listen. 00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:12.679 Listen, I mean, if the shoe fits, I mean you too. 00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:20.920 The lawyers are uneducated about the music business. 00:47:21.260 --> 00:47:23.780 They understand legal language. 00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:28.860 And they're still in that same boat of, well, my artist, my artist. 00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:32.260 But have you ever developed an artist, Esquire? 00:47:32.619 --> 00:47:36.159 Do you know what it takes to actually build a career? 00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:51.099 Do you know what kind of money and what type of warfare business partners, artists, managers, labels, publishers have to indulge in to actually get to a place where they're even making$10,000 profit? 00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:52.280 You don't. 00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:59.760 So you're confusing your artist on how the business works because you feel like you're looking out for their best interest. 00:48:00.019 --> 00:48:01.820 And in fact, you set them up to fail. 00:48:02.019 --> 00:48:06.500 You put them in a deal that was way too competitive for where they are in their career. 00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:08.320 I overpaid on the advance. 00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:11.059 I overpaid on the investment to record them. 00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:14.519 And now I'm so underwater I can't even market them. 00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:23.980 But you got that big advance for your client and you got your commission and you got paid and you're happy and your client thinks I've got a huge advance and you just put me in debt. 00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:25.960 So now I can't even afford to market you. 00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:26.699 So now what? 00:48:26.960 -->

00:48:28.219 Now your career is over and not. 00:48:28.699 --> 00:48:34.260 So I really think the big problem is uneducating these artists on deal flow. 00:48:34.579 --> 00:48:38.300 Because if your artist has no leverage, why are you asking for all that advance money? 00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:40.320 If I were you, I would tell them to put it on. 00:48:40.420 --> 00:48:42.340 I always say, put the money on the screen. 00:48:42.820 --> 00:48:44.099 Like put it on the screen. 00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:47.880 Content, advertising, visuals, storytelling. 00:48:48.260 --> 00:48:49.500 Don't put it in your pocket. 00:48:49.539 --> 00:48:51.000 I'll give you a living advance. 00:48:51.179 --> 00:48:53.300 I'll give you a stipend to keep the lights on. 00:48:53.380 --> 00:48:56.239 But you may still have to work a nine to five for two years. 00:48:56.360 --> 00:48:59.739 But these lawyers want you to do a deal so you could quit your job. 00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:04.699 And then you don't even know what it feels like to actually work hard for something and earn your keep. 00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:10.699 And I promise you 95% of these deals end up with the artists being dropped a year later. 00:49:10.900 --> 00:49:12.340 They lost all the momentum. 00:49:12.340 --> 00:49:14.820 The record company is underwater with debt. 00:49:14.980 --> 00:49:16.719 The manager is underwater with debt. 00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:18.000 The lawyer got paid. 00:49:18.139 --> 00:49:19.420 The lawyer already got fired. 00:49:19.500 --> 00:49:21.019 So they knew they were going to get fired. 00:49:21.139 --> 00:49:24.099 So all they wanted to do is make sure they got their piece of that advance. 00:49:24.340 --> 00:49:26.739 And that artist is now back to square zero. 00:49:26.940 --> 00:49:28.219 I see it happen online. 00:49:28.219 --> 00:49:32.500 And if you're a lawyer, tell me otherwise. 00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:34.500 Because I don't trust you guys anymore. 00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:41.619 And for some reason, they've given these lawyers way too much power. 00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:47.519 Because remember, the lawyer signed you to those fucked up contracts in the first place. 00:49:47.659 --> 00:49:49.739 Because they were in cahoots with the record company. 00:49:49.739 --> 00:49:53.139 And guess who pays the lawyer's legal fees? 00:49:53.420 --> 00:49:54.679 The record company. 00:49:54.940 --> 00:50:00.960 So they almost push you to them, put you in those deals because they know they're getting their fee. 00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:05.400 Because they know there's this 95% chance they're not going to be representing you in two years. 00:50:05.659 --> 00:50:09.840 There's a 99% chance you'll get dropped. 00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:13.860 And they got paid their $30,000,$40,000,$50,000 fee. 00:50:13.860 --> 00:50:17.000 And the record company pays their legal. 00:50:17.219 --> 00:50:21.380 In every deal, it says legal fees on top. 00:50:21.539 --> 00:50:24.340 So my artist gets a $25,000 advance.

00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:25.559 And guess what the lawyer got? 00:50:25.739 --> 00:50:26.280 $15,000. 00:50:26.719 --> 00:50:29.360 So your lawyer got paid 70% of your advance. 00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:34.440 You think you got a deal because, well, the lawyer's getting paid on top. 00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:35.679 So I don't have to pay the lawyer. 00:50:35.940 --> 00:50:40.139 No, the lawyer should get 5% of your $25,000 advance. 00:50:40.139 --> 00:50:45.119 Not $15,000 on top of your$25,000 advance. 00:50:45.420 --> 00:50:46.219 Look at the deals. 00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:48.320 And these artists are so uneducated. 00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:51.440 I just see them getting taken advantage left and right. 00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:52.559 You got these lawyers. 00:50:52.739 --> 00:50:53.179 Like still though? 00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:54.119 Still getting. 00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:55.619 This is happening every single day. 00:50:55.900 --> 00:51:02.000 These lawyers are outpricing these artists that have no real skin in the game. 00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:03.780 No momentum. 00:51:04.420 --> 00:51:05.219 No commerce. 00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:12.380 Their catalog only generated$15,000 because they have like 4 million streams. 00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:15.460 And the lawyer's asking for a quarter million dollar advance. 00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:19.000 I need 70 million streams just to pay the advance back. 00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:21.619 And then they want a quarter million dollar marketing fund. 00:51:21.699 --> 00:51:23.739 And I'm just like, and they're giving me 12 masters. 00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:25.340 And I'm just like, okay, great. 00:51:25.659 --> 00:51:28.460 This is a great way to end your artist's career, right? 00:51:29.420 --> 00:51:30.340 They're uneducated. 00:51:30.500 --> 00:51:32.079 They don't understand how the business works. 00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:33.760 They don't know how to make the pizza. 00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:35.440 They don't know how to deliver the pizza. 00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:43.300 See, this is why artists, the first person you need to hire is a business partner, which is mostly your manager. 00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:50.099 But for some reason, the artist doesn't even want to hire a manager until their lawyer does a deal for them. 00:51:50.260 --> 00:51:56.480 And their lawyer tells them not to hire a manager because don't hire a manager yet because your manager is going to commission your deal. 00:51:56.900 --> 00:51:58.659 Wait till after you get a deal. 00:51:58.820 --> 00:52:04.780 Why the fuck would I want to manage you after you already signed a deal and you already, I don't get no commission. 00:52:04.940 --> 00:52:06.219 I'm working for free. 00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:11.159 You know, after that first advance, you're probably not going to make another nickel for 24 months. 00:52:11.300 --> 00:52:13.880 So now you hired a manager after you signed a record deal. 00:52:14.099 --> 00:52:18.460 Your lawyer advised you not to hire a manager while you

were shopping for a record deal. 00:52:18.460 --> 00:52:20.820 So you don't have to commission that manager. 00:52:20.860 --> 00:52:23.119 And now your manager is working for free and scrunted. 00:52:23.340 --> 00:52:24.820 Why the hell would they work for you? 00:52:25.019 --> 00:52:25.300 Right? 00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:27.039 See, but I've never thought about it that way. 00:52:28.019 --> 00:52:29.360 I've never thought about it that way. 00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:31.260 I would hire a manager first. 00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:31.619 Yeah. 00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:33.739 A manager, business partner first. 00:52:34.179 --> 00:52:37.539 And then I would never hire a lawyer for a percentage. 00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:41.780 I would say I'll pay you your hourly fee and it's equivalent to the deal. 00:52:41.780 --> 00:52:52.679 So if my deal is X amount, I'll give you either 5% of my advance, not off the top, or I'll pay you per hour. 00:52:52.699 --> 00:52:57.860 And it's up to you to let me know exactly what your hourly fees are. 00:52:58.059 --> 00:52:58.380 Yeah. 00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:01.860 And if I got to pay you $600 an hour, I'll pay you $600 an hour. 00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:09.699 But these lawyers are getting paid tens of thousands of dollars on the deal and they end up putting more money in their pocket than the artists. 00:53:09.699 --> 00:53:10.420 Yeah. 00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:16.619 I just even look at, I mean, should I just look at even artists that, I mean, they're not even at that stage where they're getting deals presented to them. 00:53:16.739 --> 00:53:33.880 I'm just thinking of artists that are so, I don't know if it's just like this stigma around like even, you know, the own your masters thing where like the thought of giving up a percentage of their business or their song ownership to someone who can grow the business with them. 00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:35.119 Grow the business. 00:53:35.219 --> 00:53:36.039 That's all they have. 00:53:36.039 --> 00:53:37.179 You got to do something with it. 00:53:37.300 --> 00:53:39.280 Yeah, but they like, they think it's insane. 00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:40.639 They got to probably. 00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:42.579 Yeah, but they don't have to do anything. 00:53:42.579 --> 00:53:44.280 They can be completely independent. 00:53:44.500 --> 00:53:45.380 They can fund everything. 00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:53.940 And there's a lot of investors and business partners that will actually invest in you without owning anything, which is totally fine, right? 00:53:54.139 --> 00:53:55.719 They'll do a five-year license. 00:53:55.960 --> 00:53:57.139 They'll do a 10-year license. 00:53:57.260 --> 00:54:03.699 And I think you have to build your leverage to get to that place where you could command those kinds of deals. 00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:04.940 So what is leverage, bro? 00:54:04.980 --> 00:54:05.800 What is leverage? 00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:06.679 What is leverage? 00:54:07.159 --> 00:54:09.059 It's like we hear that all the

time. 00:54:09.340 --> 00:54:10.460 You got to build leverage. 00:54:10.719 --> 00:54:11.480 And I'm like, bro. 00:54:11.679 --> 00:54:12.739 Recurring monthly revenue? 00:54:12.739 --> 00:54:13.719 What are we talking about here? 00:54:13.980 --> 00:54:15.659 There needs to be value in the asset. 00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:18.199 If the asset I'm investing in is the master. 00:54:18.420 --> 00:54:18.739 Sure. 00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:24.500 I just look at to see how much money was generated from your masters over the course of the last 18 months. 00:54:24.619 --> 00:54:25.460 Well, none, Chris. 00:54:25.900 --> 00:54:28.880 I'm a fucking - To me, there's no leverage there. 00:54:29.300 --> 00:54:33.239 Hence why if I'm going to invest into you - Yeah, but you know what? 00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:33.980 So am I. 00:54:35.460 --> 00:54:38.440 No, honestly, as a business partner, so am I. 00:54:38.659 --> 00:54:38.920 Yeah. 00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:40.460 You're a great talent. 00:54:40.579 --> 00:54:41.019 You can sing. 00:54:41.159 --> 00:54:41.539 You can write. 00:54:41.659 --> 00:54:42.199 You're great looking. 00:54:42.219 --> 00:54:42.820 You got charisma. 00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:43.300 You're a star. 00:54:43.420 --> 00:54:44.860 But I have incredible business acumen. 00:54:45.019 --> 00:54:46.840 And I understand the way the business works. 00:54:46.900 --> 00:54:47.780 I know how to scale you. 00:54:47.780 --> 00:54:53.139 And I know I have information on how to build your business into a commodity that I actually could earn. 00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:56.980 So to me, when leverage is, I have value. 00:54:57.199 --> 00:54:58.559 It's just like a startup. 00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:01.239 Like I came up with a granola product. 00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:03.139 I'm selling it out of my kitchen. 00:55:03.300 --> 00:55:06.019 All of a sudden, sales this month were 2,000. 00:55:06.219 --> 00:55:08.079 Sales next month were 4,000. 00:55:08.440 --> 00:55:10.179 Sales in 20 months was $40,000. 00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:11.539 That's leverage. 00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:19.800 So I can now put a value just based on the consistency of me going from 2,000 to 4,000 to 8,000 to 40,000 after 12 months. 00:55:19.940 --> 00:55:23.260 I can say in three years, this could be a half a million dollar business. 00:55:23.500 --> 00:55:24.500 Well, that's the thing. 00:55:25.539 --> 00:55:28.920 But if you got no leverage, what am I putting a value on? 00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:29.380 Hope? 00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:29.820 Yeah. 00:55:30.300 --> 00:55:31.099 Well, but see. 00:55:31.500 --> 00:55:31.559 Yeah. 00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:34.420 But I think what you just shared is so important, man. 00:55:34.519 --> 00:55:36.280 And I don't know if you understand what you just said. 00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:43.099 It's like being able to share that story and have the numbers and the data to back up even just the story. 00:55:43.219 --> 00:55:47.059 Because even if you haven't gotten to some crazy amount of

earnings, right? 00:55:47.059 --> 00:55:47.679 Have a business plan. 00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:58.920 If you can show the growth and you can be like, hey, in three months, I started from X and now I'm at Y, people can start to kind of wrap their heads around that of like, oh, shit, I can kind of see where this is going. 00:55:59.219 --> 00:56:03.219 Because ultimately, there is going to be like some degree of a leap of faith. 00:56:03.360 --> 00:56:04.239 I mean, like it's a startup. 00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:06.360 People will understand the risk, right? 00:56:06.500 --> 00:56:06.980 There's risk. 00:56:07.260 --> 00:56:12.920 People will understand the risk and people will also see the market potential based on audience behavior. 00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:14.260 People are buying into it. 00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:30.900 If you're increasing in view count and comments and interaction on your social media, if you have 2,000 followers, but you get 1,200 likes every time you post something, that tells me something. 00:56:31.099 --> 00:56:35.039 Versus 20,000 followers and you're getting 100 likes. 00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:45.099 Like I'm going after the artist that has 2,000 followers and 1,200 likes for every post more so than the artist that has 20,000 followers and 100 likes. 00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:48.019 Like I'm not, I'm not confused by the hype. 00:56:48.280 --> 00:56:48.460 Yeah. 00:56:48.739 --> 00:56:50.420 Like what's real is what's real. 00:56:50.539 --> 00:56:55.880 If people are at the party and they're eating the food at the party, that means they like what the chef is cooking. 00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:58.860 A lot of people go to the party and they'll never spend their money at the bar. 00:56:59.579 --> 00:57:00.900 So it's all hype. 00:57:01.159 --> 00:57:02.440 You ain't make no money. 00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:05.119 You got all these people at the party, but nobody's spending money. 00:57:05.300 --> 00:57:07.559 So to me, it's like, who's spending money at the party. 00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:07.980 Right. 00:57:08.179 --> 00:57:12.460 And that's what I'm looking at because I know that I could then scale that. 00:57:12.940 --> 00:57:15.420 Like that's real tangible information. 00:57:15.659 --> 00:57:16.639 See the lawyers. 00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:20.159 And I'm saying they're not in the weeds. 00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:21.800 They're not in the weeds. 00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:23.920 Dude, the lawyers are catching so many. 00:57:25.340 --> 00:57:27.780 They're not in the weeds with the artists. 00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:29.059 They're not in the weeds. 00:57:29.380 --> 00:57:31.800 They don't understand what it really takes. 00:57:31.980 --> 00:57:56.440 Like those four hour shoots, buying the film, editing, paying somebody $200 just to do edits on short form content, spending 50 bucks a week on Facebook ads, paying that engineer to make that mix a little brighter, putting out the record, like talking that artist off a ledge for three hours a night because the artist is suffering from depression and working for free. 00:57:56.440 --> 00:57:59.460 And then you're like, damn, bro, we haven't made no money. 00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:03.500 Like you have 2 million streams, which is only eight grand. 00:58:04.159 --> 00:58:07.820 And if I'm sharing the master with you, I made four grand. 00:58:07.820 --> 00:58:10.539 And then we also have to give master points to the produce. 00:58:10.780 --> 00:58:15.760 So at the end of the day, it may have taken us like a year to get to 2 million streams. 00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:17.239 And we only made eight grand. 00:58:17.239 --> 00:58:21.460 And now you're asking for$200,000 advance. 00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:23.980 Like, what do you mean? 00:58:24.340 --> 00:58:27.119 Like you're about to, you're negotiating yourself out of a deal. 00:58:27.260 --> 00:58:32.239 And now because of like FOMO, you convinced some company to invest. 00:58:32.559 --> 00:58:38.599 Now I'm forced to like compete on the deal that in my stomach, it just doesn't feel right for me. 00:58:38.599 --> 00:58:39.920 And we lose. 00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:43.219 And there's a 99% chance I'm going to lose. 00:58:43.380 --> 00:58:52.519 I'd rather invest on the screen, give you enough money to pay your bills so you can at least make music more than part time. 00:58:52.639 --> 00:58:54.179 But I'm not going to tell you to quit your day job. 00:58:54.320 --> 00:59:00.119 And then through action and success, I'll continue to invest. 00:59:00.699 --> 00:59:04.599 Like, why, why wouldn't you want me to invest at that pace? 00:59:04.699 --> 00:59:10.679 If I told you I will invest for the next five years, but you just got to like, give me a break. 00:59:10.860 --> 00:59:12.159 Let me do this gradually. 00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:14.900 But they want all the money off the table on the signing. 00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:17.179 And I keep on seeing these deals. 00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:22.760 And I've seen five of these deals in the last 12 months that the artist is dead. 00:59:23.380 --> 00:59:26.460 And 12 months ago, they had the biggest hype in the record business. 00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:28.039 So I've seen it happen. 00:59:28.039 --> 00:59:31.139 So is this what you're experiencing at Electric Feel right now? 00:59:31.340 --> 00:59:35.960 Like, are these like real life examples of signings that you're trying to do at the new venture? 00:59:36.039 --> 00:59:39.880 Listen, at the new venture, we are focused on artist development. 00:59:39.880 --> 00:59:41.079 We are not competing. 00:59:41.239 --> 00:59:42.599 We are not playing any games. 00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:44.079 We're not overpaying for deals. 00:59:44.380 --> 00:59:46.340 We will spend the money accordingly. 00:59:46.340 --> 00:59:47.199 We're not cheap. 00:59:47.472 --> 00:59:49.092 But we also are smart. 00:59:49.231 --> 00:59:52.552 This is a five to seven year business proposal for us. 00:59:52.692 --> 00:59:56.452 Every artist, we're not going to see any profit

for the first three to five years. 00:59:56.452 --> 01:00:03.172 So we have the mindset that every artist we develop, we're not going to see any return for five years. 01:00:03.391 --> 01:00:06.052 Therefore, I want to be in business with you for at least five years. 01:00:06.211 --> 01:00:13.391 I want to make sure that we're in bed with you for at least enough real estate that we could actually get to a business. 01:00:13.552 --> 01:00:13.672 Right? 01:00:13.672 --> 01:00:16.012 So I don't want to do six song deals. 01:00:16.251 --> 01:00:25.371 I want to do long term deals where we invest hundreds of thousands of dollars across the year over five years. 01:00:25.771 --> 01:00:32.552 Where we may end spending two million dollars by year five, but we're not going to spend a half a million dollars in the first six months. 01:00:33.192 --> 01:00:33.291 Right? 01:00:33.291 --> 01:00:33.351 Right? 01:00:33.771 --> 01:00:41.032 Gradually build a repertoire and build a system that could actually yield the result you're looking for. 01:00:41.211 --> 01:00:42.931 Because there's something about momentum. 01:00:43.211 --> 01:00:44.731 There's something about consistency. 01:00:45.032 --> 01:00:50.152 There's something about not looking at the scorecard and having a long game mentality. 01:00:50.431 --> 01:00:51.831 And those are the winners. 01:00:52.072 --> 01:00:53.411 Those are going to be the winners of tomorrow. 01:00:53.411 --> 01:01:01.871 Because all that virality, like maybe we'll get one of those if we're lucky, but we're not relying on it. 01:01:02.211 --> 01:01:08.751 The idea of having seven number ones on one album, Katy Perry, broke Michael Jackson, number one record. 01:01:08.871 --> 01:01:10.831 You know how much money we spent at Universal? 01:01:11.192 --> 01:01:12.132 I mean, how much? 01:01:12.452 --> 01:01:13.492 I would love to hear that number. 01:01:14.291 --> 01:01:17.472 $15 million to get there. 01:01:17.612 --> 01:01:18.411 Are you kidding me? 01:01:18.572 --> 01:01:20.931 To get to that seven number one record? 01:01:20.931 --> 01:01:23.431 $15 million at least. 01:01:23.751 --> 01:01:29.552 But now she's a unicorn and she's printing cash for the record company. 01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:30.179 Wow. 01:01:30.179 --> 01:01:32.139 Which is why Wall Street's getting in the catalog game. 01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:36.559 Listen, they're making at least$10 million a month. 01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:37.000 Wow. 01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:39.000 Nine figure a year businesses. 01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:40.199 These records companies. 01:01:40.539 --> 01:01:43.039 So do superstars still exist? 01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:44.480 Are we done with that era? 01:01:44.699 --> 01:01:47.880 Like, who's the most recent superstar that's been built up? 01:01:47.960 --> 01:01:56.260 Because I feel like the second I think an artist has momentum, to your point, and they're like really growing, really growing, then I do feel like I don't hear from them again. 01:01:57.039 --> 01:01:57.500 I don't know. 01:01:57.619 --> 01:01:58.900 I mean, I don't even want to use it. 01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:01.559 I don't want to say any examples because - You have one on the 10-year-time. 01:02:01.619 --> 01:02:02.760 I did have one, but I don't want to do it. 01:02:03.539 --> 01:02:04.320 No, do it. 01:02:04.780 --> 01:02:05.460 You got to do it. 01:02:05.460 --> 01:02:06.059 It's a safe space. 01:02:06.059 --> 01:02:08.420 I just feel like my guy, Kenny Mason. 01:02:08.860 --> 01:02:12.820 I feel like you - I mean, all due respect, who? 01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:14.079 Okay, well. 01:02:14.780 --> 01:02:16.219 No, I mean, a superstar? 01:02:16.579 --> 01:02:24.820 I mean, he was really growing, and I thought that he was like poised to be, you know, maybe - Superstar is different. 01:02:25.179 --> 01:02:27.280 Well, again - He didn't hit that. 01:02:27.639 --> 01:02:28.300 He hasn't hit that. 01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:31.480 No, I know, but - You said the word superstar. 01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:34.300 Lights, camera, action, brand deals, costumes. 01:02:34.300 --> 01:02:34.860 Okay, shit. 01:02:34.900 --> 01:02:36.239 People want to dress like you on Halloween. 01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:36.659 All right, fine. 01:02:36.780 --> 01:02:38.860 But I think a superstar, that's what I'm thinking about. 01:02:39.059 --> 01:02:40.639 Then let's even use - Very successful artist. 01:02:40.820 --> 01:02:41.940 Then let's even use J.I.D. 01:02:42.500 --> 01:02:45.019 I thought he was going to be like the next superstar in rap. 01:02:45.579 --> 01:02:46.539 Yeah, but J.I.D. 01:02:46.619 --> 01:02:48.380 is a superstar to somebody, right? 01:02:48.739 --> 01:02:50.860 I mean, sure, but - He is a superstar, right? 01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:52.699 Is he a household name? 01:02:52.699 --> 01:02:53.500 I think J.I.D. 01:02:53.579 --> 01:02:54.980 is one of the greatest rappers in the world. 01:02:55.340 --> 01:02:56.940 Well, so do I, but - I think J.I.D. 01:02:56.940 --> 01:02:57.679 is a star. 01:02:58.079 --> 01:02:58.900 I think J.I.D. 01:02:59.099 --> 01:03:05.239 is culturally more relevant than 95% of every hip-hop artist on the planet, and we had J.I.D. 01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:07.159 on one of Katy Perry singles, Artificial. 01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:13.099 The kid's a fucking star to me, but superstar, that's in the audience, right? 01:03:13.539 --> 01:03:16.239 He's a superstar to somebody, right? 01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:16.719 Yeah, yeah. 01:03:16.760 --> 01:03:26.340 But when you talk about the mainstream superstar, my Nigerian mother who doesn't know anything about anything - Does she know J.I.D.? 01:03:26.340 --> 01:03:26.500 No. 01:03:26.760 --> 01:03:27.480 She doesn't. 01:03:27.559 --> 01:03:28.320 So that's what I'm saying. 01:03:28.519 --> 01:03:29.860 But she knows Taylor Swift. 01:03:30.179 --> 01:03:30.440 Sure. 01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:31.460 She knows J.I.D. 01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:34.260 She knows Katy Perry. 01:03:34.460 -->

01:03:37.639 She knows Zara Larsson, believe it or not, right? 01:03:37.820 --> 01:03:42.059 Because they've - But it took Zara 12 years to get to this place, right? 01:03:42.059 --> 01:03:43.840 I was shocked to see - She's the newer one, yeah. 01:03:43.840 --> 01:03:48.420 Yeah, but I was shocked to see that you had signed Zara originally, right? 01:03:48.679 --> 01:03:51.559 A &R on her first album that has five billion streams. 01:03:51.900 --> 01:03:51.940 Wow. 01:03:51.940 --> 01:03:53.519 Never Forget You, Lush Life. 01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:58.300 The album is called So Good, and it has all those hit records. 01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:03.059 Never Forget You, Lush Life, that's now, was a top 10 record 10 years later. 01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:06.360 I met Zara Larsson when she was 17 years old in Stockholm. 01:04:06.539 --> 01:04:07.940 I flew to Stockholm. 01:04:08.099 --> 01:04:08.300 L.A. 01:04:08.340 --> 01:04:09.119 Reid signed her to Epic. 01:04:09.320 --> 01:04:14.239 I flew to Stockholm, drove to her family home, met her mom, met her dad, met her little sister. 01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:22.019 A &R on her record, put her in the studio, introduced her to producers, writers, vocal producers, cut her in L.A., cut her in Stockholm. 01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:29.199 And I love Zara, and I believed in Zara, and I always thought she had huge potential, and she was an incredible singer. 01:04:29.800 --> 01:04:33.179 Did I know that 10 years later, Lush Life would still be a hit record? 01:04:33.360 --> 01:04:40.920 Did I know that 10 years later, she'd finally get her flowers for something that we saw in 2015 when L.A. 01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:42.340 Reid signed her to Epic Records? 01:04:42.340 --> 01:04:43.199 No way. 01:04:43.380 --> 01:04:51.119 I just knew she was an incredible pop artist that had an incredible voice, incredible work ethic, and we loved the music we worked on together. 01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:52.119 But so what happened? 01:04:52.380 --> 01:04:53.340 The whole part was following up. 01:04:53.460 --> 01:04:54.420 Got any publishing on that record? 01:04:55.099 --> 01:04:55.860 Oh, no, no, no. 01:04:55.940 --> 01:04:57.860 I mean, I don't write songs. 01:04:57.880 --> 01:04:58.960 I hire writers. 01:04:59.119 --> 01:05:00.000 I hire producers. 01:05:00.179 --> 01:05:01.159 Some A &Rs, though. 01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:03.300 I don't get involved in that stuff. 01:05:03.699 --> 01:05:07.960 I don't ever want to be disrespectful to an artist and try to be in the studio. 01:05:07.960 --> 01:05:17.599 Even if I gave an artist direction on lyrics or melody or told a producer to rearrange a song, you would never catch me asking for publishing. 01:05:17.820 --> 01:05:18.940 Yeah, well, that's Chris. 01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:19.539 Come on, bro. 01:05:20.260 --> 01:05:21.260 Did you really mean that? 01:05:21.260 --> 01:05:24.119 I wanted to let the audience know who Chris is as a person. 01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:25.659 I was like, you know. 01:05:26.139 --> 01:05:26.820 That was for them. 01:05:27.139 --> 01:05:28.599 I'm well compensated. 01:05:28.840 --> 01:05:31.219 I was always paid very well. 01:05:31.360 --> 01:05:31.639 Yeah. 01:05:31.780 --> 01:05:32.019 Points. 01:05:32.019 --> 01:05:34.739 I'm very blessed and abundant in my life. 01:05:34.860 --> 01:05:36.099 I don't need to ask for more. 01:05:36.500 --> 01:05:38.579 But so what happened with Zara? 01:05:39.019 --> 01:05:40.440 Like, what was this, like, recent? 01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:41.659 Like, what's happened? 01:05:41.719 --> 01:05:42.420 I don't even know. 01:05:43.000 --> 01:05:44.199 She went through a low. 01:05:44.480 --> 01:05:51.239 And just based on being a consumer now and no longer, like. 01:05:51.579 --> 01:05:52.739 Like married to it. 01:05:52.860 --> 01:05:53.019 Yeah. 01:05:53.199 --> 01:05:56.780 Like, I was an employee of Zara Larsson. 01:05:56.920 --> 01:05:57.619 I worked for her. 01:05:57.679 --> 01:05:57.860 Yeah. 01:05:57.860 --> 01:06:03.579 So now being on the outside and seeing, you know, she had a low for two and a half years. 01:06:03.739 --> 01:06:05.320 And she was written off. 01:06:05.559 --> 01:06:05.760 Yeah. 01:06:05.900 --> 01:06:11.039 And she reinvented herself in an era where people were looking to grab onto something. 01:06:11.179 --> 01:06:14.380 And this whole brand identity came. 01:06:14.440 --> 01:06:21.159 Like, this whole way we see Zara, this rainbow, what's it called? 01:06:22.679 --> 01:06:23.199 Y2K. 01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:23.579 Yeah. 01:06:23.820 --> 01:06:24.340 Neon. 01:06:24.340 --> 01:06:28.019 And she just tapped in and people bought in. 01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:35.500 And then Midnight Sun, sonically, the record, the feeling, the artwork, the branding, the performances. 01:06:36.599 --> 01:06:39.260 People discovered Zara for the first time. 01:06:39.619 --> 01:06:40.719 I'm one of those people. 01:06:40.940 --> 01:06:41.440 I'm one of them. 01:06:41.860 --> 01:06:42.320 I legitimately. 01:06:42.679 --> 01:06:43.619 Through social media. 01:06:43.780 --> 01:06:43.880 Yeah. 01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:46.019 I legitimately was not tapped in. 01:06:46.179 --> 01:06:46.980 Like at all. 01:06:47.260 --> 01:06:47.739 You know? 01:06:47.880 --> 01:06:49.679 And I mean, I didn't realize she had been making music for that long. 01:06:49.780 --> 01:06:51.900 I mean, literally I saw her and I was like, oh, wow. 01:06:51.900 --> 01:06:54.139 This seems like a overnight success. 01:06:54.380 --> 01:06:55.480 And clearly not. 01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:57.460 You know, a guy I'm like interviewing. 01:06:57.820 --> 01:06:58.719 It's kind of encouraging, right? 01:06:58.820 --> 01:06:59.500 Kind of means that. 01:06:59.679 --> 01:07:02.519 Because I feel like back in the day more so, it's like if you missed that moment. 01:07:03.019 --> 01:07:03.480 You were done. 01:07:03.579 --> 01:07:04.139 You were kind of done. 01:07:04.280 --> 01:07:04.579 You were cooked. 01:07:05.219 -->

01:07:06.440 Is it more possible now? 01:07:07.539 --> 01:07:13.519 Independent artists, for the love of God, please, please stop paying for three services when you could get them all in one place. 01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:13.940 In one? 01:07:14.059 --> 01:07:16.000 You're paying for a pre-save. 01:07:16.059 --> 01:07:16.340 Of course. 01:07:16.340 --> 01:07:19.000 You're paying for your link in bio service. 01:07:19.239 --> 01:07:19.719 Yeah, I gotta do that. 01:07:19.719 --> 01:07:21.059 And you're paying for your distributor. 01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:22.059 We gotta get my music out there. 01:07:22.380 --> 01:07:23.760 Those days are over. 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:29.739 The sponsor of today's episode, DistroKid, gives you all three of those functionality all in one place. 01:07:29.820 --> 01:07:32.659 It acts as a pre-save link before the song comes out. 01:07:32.780 --> 01:07:36.059 And then the moment that the song drops, it becomes a smart link. 01:07:36.059 --> 01:07:37.099 And it's the same link. 01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:39.119 You don't have to go around updating links. 01:07:39.179 --> 01:07:40.579 This tool is called HyperFollow. 01:07:40.699 --> 01:07:43.400 And it's included in every single one of your DistroKid releases. 01:07:43.400 --> 01:07:49.300 What it does is it obviously has them pre-save the song, but it also has them follow your Spotify artist profile. 01:07:49.480 --> 01:07:49.900 Free follow. 01:07:50.099 --> 01:07:53.039 It's gonna trip the algorithm every time that you release in the future. 01:07:53.219 --> 01:07:55.880 And it's gonna alert that person of the drop. 01:07:56.019 --> 01:07:58.760 And you're collecting fan data at the same time. 01:07:58.900 --> 01:08:02.139 You guys know we preach about get the data, get your fans data. 01:08:02.619 --> 01:08:06.099 This is a super obvious and super helpful tool built into your subscription. 01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:09.900 But if you don't already have a subscription, we got you back on that too. 01:08:10.099 --> 01:08:17.979 If you want 30% off your first year while supporting the podcast, head on over to onemoretime.fm slash distrokid to get started today. 01:08:18.159 --> 01:08:18.840 What was that link again? 01:08:19.140 --> 01:08:21.380 Onemoretime.fm slash distrokid. 01:08:21.539 --> 01:08:22.420 Let's get back into the episode. 01:08:23.739 --> 01:08:26.760 Nowadays, the only person who isn't delusional is a customer. 01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:30.880 And the music business will always be three minutes and 33 seconds. 01:08:31.100 --> 01:08:32.560 One hit record will change your life. 01:08:32.800 --> 01:08:35.180 One hit record will reestablish your career. 01:08:35.460 --> 01:08:37.880 It all comes down to the songs and the audience, right? 01:08:37.880 --> 01:08:46.739 So when you got Zara who reintroduced his whole brand identity and was very consistent in the storytelling and the costuming. 01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:49.560 She already paid her dues, right? 01:08:50.060 --> 01:08:52.279 The girl could sing her tail off. 01:08:52.399 --> 01:08:53.819 She's one of the greatest singers in the world. 01:08:54.039 --> 01:08:56.100 The girl could perform her tail off. 01:08:56.220 --> 01:08:56.920 She's trained. 01:08:57.119 --> 01:08:59.560 She's been on tour her whole life for a decade. 01:08:59.739 --> 01:09:00.300 She could dance. 01:09:00.420 --> 01:09:01.020 She could perform. 01:09:01.199 --> 01:09:02.640 She's the real deal. 01:09:02.640 --> 01:09:15.640 When you then discover this persona through this new brand like Gravitas and then insert hit record, Midnight Sun with this fresh sound. 01:09:16.119 --> 01:09:23.979 She found a whole new audience who then looked at the historical data and said, oh, this girl's been making music since 2015. 01:09:24.279 --> 01:09:29.600 And started listening to songs like Never Forget You and Lush Life and Symphony with Clean Bandit. 01:09:29.699 --> 01:09:31.619 And said, oh, shit, this is really good. 01:09:31.619 --> 01:09:33.039 I love this song. 01:09:33.399 --> 01:09:34.399 And now they're consuming. 01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:35.399 They're binge watching. 01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:42.020 It's like discovering a TV show on Netflix that's been out for five seasons and you never knew anything about it. 01:09:42.100 --> 01:09:43.560 And then you saw a clip on social media. 01:09:43.640 --> 01:09:44.140 You liked it. 01:09:44.180 --> 01:09:46.279 You're like, oh, my God, let me go watch this show. 01:09:46.500 --> 01:09:48.220 And then you just watch every episode. 01:09:48.399 --> 01:09:49.100 And now you're a fan. 01:09:49.260 --> 01:09:50.340 That's what happened with Zara Larsson. 01:09:50.500 --> 01:09:52.279 And she deserves it because she paid her dues. 01:09:52.479 --> 01:10:01.119 So now this is actually an artist that is set up for global takeover because she paid her dues. 01:10:01.119 --> 01:10:02.699 She laid the groundwork. 01:10:02.899 --> 01:10:04.039 She toured the world. 01:10:04.220 --> 01:10:07.140 She's had multiple hit records, whether you heard them or not. 01:10:07.279 --> 01:10:12.060 She has over seven billion streams and she's been all around the world. 01:10:12.439 --> 01:10:16.100 And now she's ready for the main stage. 01:10:16.100 --> 01:10:20.100 And I think this is just the beginning of what you're going to see with Zara Larsson. 01:10:20.239 --> 01:10:22.739 That girl is a star and she's going to go all the way. 01:10:23.060 --> 01:10:23.239 Yeah. 01:10:23.340 --> 01:10:24.760 It's just so interesting, right? 01:10:24.899 --> 01:10:29.439 Because it's like, had you stayed in touch with her over these last like 10 plus years? 01:10:29.960 --> 01:10:30.340 Yeah. 01:10:30.340 --> 01:10:30.500 Yeah. 01:10:30.640 --> 01:10:31.420 I love Zara. 01:10:31.579 --> 01:10:32.420 I love Zara. 01:10:32.619 --> 01:10:33.600 I love her management. 01:10:33.659 --> 01:10:35.140 I know her little sister. 01:10:35.460 --> 01:10:37.819 I had a great relationship

with her mom. 01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:39.439 Her father I met once. 01:10:39.579 --> 01:10:40.600 They're a great family. 01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:45.720 I saw her at a Billboard Woman in Music Awards a few months ago. 01:10:46.039 --> 01:10:48.079 I was so excited to see her. 01:10:48.220 --> 01:10:49.979 She was so excited to see me. 01:10:49.979 --> 01:10:50.960 We hugged. 01:10:51.039 --> 01:10:51.539 We kissed. 01:10:51.720 --> 01:11:00.079 And she was like, I was just listening to X Song, a song we did 10 years ago that I actually pitched her. 01:11:00.260 --> 01:11:00.500 Wow. 01:11:00.539 --> 01:11:04.720 And I was so happy for her to just be so grateful for the work we did together. 01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:05.060 Yeah. 01:11:05.239 --> 01:11:10.699 So, you know, how was her mindset over this last decade plus, right? 01:11:10.819 --> 01:11:12.100 To get her to, because I don't know. 01:11:12.159 --> 01:11:12.819 I just feel like. 01:11:13.399 --> 01:11:13.720 Resilience? 01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:14.159 Yeah. 01:11:14.239 --> 01:11:15.979 Because she's, you know, she said she had like a lull, right? 01:11:16.180 --> 01:11:16.359 And like. 01:11:16.619 --> 01:11:16.979 She had a lull. 01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:17.760 They wrote her off. 01:11:17.819 --> 01:11:19.159 They said Zara Larsson is dead. 01:11:19.159 --> 01:11:22.979 She had a couple projects or at least one album that didn't perform well. 01:11:23.100 --> 01:11:24.039 They had no hits. 01:11:24.239 --> 01:11:24.380 Yeah. 01:11:24.619 --> 01:11:28.359 And she just decided to kind of take control over her career. 01:11:28.479 --> 01:11:33.659 Because for all those years, for most of the round of Zara, she was A &R'd, right? 01:11:33.699 --> 01:11:36.479 She was signed to an independent company out of Stockholm. 01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:40.579 She was A &R'd by great record men. 01:11:40.859 --> 01:11:41.159 L.A. 01:11:41.239 --> 01:11:44.920 Reid, myself, Roger Ames, who's part of her management team. 01:11:45.079 --> 01:11:46.760 We would give her songs to sing. 01:11:46.880 --> 01:11:48.220 We would hire vocal producers. 01:11:48.220 --> 01:11:49.300 We would bring in. 01:11:49.539 --> 01:11:51.260 But you know what's great about Zara? 01:11:51.539 --> 01:11:53.159 She's the greatest student. 01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:56.560 She knew she wasn't quite a songwriter back then. 01:11:57.104 --> 01:12:04.275 But she was open to taking direction from people who actually know what they're talking about and know what they're doing, right? 01:12:04.456 --> 01:12:05.855 People that have had hit records. 01:12:06.595 --> 01:12:06.796 L.A. 01:12:06.855 --> 01:12:07.015 Reid. 01:12:07.256 --> 01:12:08.996 People who've developed superstars. 01:12:09.475 --> 01:12:18.935 People who understand where to get the great songs from and who the great collaborations are and how to help you culturally in an American market because you're from Stockholm. 01:12:19.475 --> 01:12:21.996 And I was able to like guide her.

01:12:22.416 --> 01:12:23.975 Her manager was able to guide her. 01:12:24.275 --> 01:12:24.515 L.A. 01:12:24.595 --> 01:12:25.716 Reid was able to guide her. 01:12:26.036 --> 01:12:27.315 Sylvia Rhone was able to guide her. 01:12:27.435 --> 01:12:27.956 She listened. 01:12:28.275 --> 01:12:32.555 And then you get to a certain age where you start taking more control over your career. 01:12:32.555 --> 01:12:38.475 And you have an identity of how you want to see yourself and you want to tell your story the way you want to tell it. 01:12:38.695 --> 01:12:40.456 And she started to do that. 01:12:40.855 --> 01:12:43.015 And you win some, you lose some. 01:12:43.475 --> 01:12:45.155 But then she cracked it. 01:12:45.395 --> 01:12:47.195 And she cracked it with Midnight Sun. 01:12:47.815 --> 01:12:49.095 And then she cracked it again. 01:12:49.695 --> 01:12:51.515 And she's driving the car now. 01:12:52.275 --> 01:12:53.716 Zara's in the driver's seat. 01:12:53.716 --> 01:12:59.195 But she'll tell you when she started, she was told what to sing sometimes. 01:12:59.195 --> 01:13:01.256 And she was told who to work with. 01:13:01.355 --> 01:13:06.555 And she was given vocal producers and engineers to vocal producers a certain way. 01:13:06.636 --> 01:13:07.235 And it worked. 01:13:07.435 --> 01:13:07.735 Yeah. 01:13:07.895 --> 01:13:10.136 And that's what the record business does for artists. 01:13:10.296 --> 01:13:12.036 Like we're not fucking scrubs. 01:13:12.216 --> 01:13:13.796 We actually know what we're doing. 01:13:13.815 --> 01:13:15.935 And some of these artists need to be A &R'd. 01:13:16.076 --> 01:13:18.095 They don't know what hit records are. 01:13:18.256 --> 01:13:19.895 They don't know how to make the pizza. 01:13:20.095 --> 01:13:21.775 They think they know, but they don't. 01:13:21.775 --> 01:13:32.256 And that's why sometimes having a business partner that comes with A &R, that comes with marketing, that comes with know-with-all could actually be helpful to your career. 01:13:32.315 --> 01:13:38.376 Because if it wasn't for great A&R men and women, half of these artists that we talk about today wouldn't be existing. 01:13:38.655 --> 01:13:48.336 Because they were developed by great record people who gave them great material and put them in the studio with great producers and songwriters to help shape these records. 01:13:48.555 --> 01:13:49.515 Yeah, but see what I think. 01:13:49.735 --> 01:13:50.155 Take the team. 01:13:50.155 --> 01:13:55.836 Yeah, but so what I think the issue is is that specifically for our independent artist community, right? 01:13:56.076 --> 01:14:02.355 It's almost easier, of course, to be like, hey, Zara, LA Reid, he's done this a few times, right? 01:14:02.515 --> 01:14:05.475 Like Chris Anakute, he's done this a couple of times. 01:14:05.615 --> 01:14:06.676 I know, but I'm just saying. 01:14:06.855 --> 01:14:16.416 But where I think it's beautiful that Zara is a great example of someone who was open-minded to

listen and be coached and to take suggestions. 01:14:16.416 --> 01:14:26.815 But then also simultaneously what I'm hearing about Zara from you is that she also knew when to take over and have her own vision and execute against it and trust her own instinct. 01:14:26.996 --> 01:14:34.015 So it's like having that give and take where you do have to kind of know what the fuck you want to be and what you want to stand for. 01:14:34.015 --> 01:14:36.935 But you got to fucking open your ears, too, and listen to some people, right? 01:14:37.036 --> 01:14:37.796 You don't know everything. 01:14:38.176 --> 01:14:38.855 You don't. 01:14:38.916 --> 01:14:39.935 That's exactly right. 01:14:40.076 --> 01:14:42.695 And that's the great artist, right? 01:14:42.815 --> 01:14:43.115 Yes. 01:14:43.275 --> 01:14:44.756 It sounds like Zara has that. 01:14:45.115 --> 01:14:45.475 No, no. 01:14:45.555 --> 01:14:48.836 She's a world-class recording artist. 01:14:49.036 --> 01:14:49.195 Yeah. 01:14:49.595 --> 01:14:51.735 This girl was born to be a star. 01:14:51.996 --> 01:14:52.115 Yeah. 01:14:52.195 --> 01:14:53.456 This girl paid her dues. 01:14:53.456 --> 01:14:57.376 This girl understands how to be coached, which is very important. 01:14:58.095 --> 01:15:00.195 Jordan knew how to be coached. 01:15:00.195 --> 01:15:00.395 Yep. 01:15:00.775 --> 01:15:01.456 I feel. 01:15:01.855 --> 01:15:02.636 It's true, man. 01:15:02.975 --> 01:15:03.336 He knew how to be coached. 01:15:03.355 --> 01:15:03.676 Yes. 01:15:03.975 --> 01:15:06.876 And that's why he's a champion, right? 01:15:07.376 --> 01:15:08.916 LeBron knew how to be coached. 01:15:08.956 --> 01:15:09.515 You got to be coached. 01:15:10.676 --> 01:15:14.775 You knowing how to be coached can make a difference on whether or not you even get into the NBA. 01:15:15.095 --> 01:15:15.376 Yeah. 01:15:15.536 --> 01:15:16.315 Or the MLB. 01:15:16.595 --> 01:15:18.015 Because you're coachable, right? 01:15:18.015 --> 01:15:20.895 So these artists need to know how to be coached. 01:15:20.975 --> 01:15:27.996 They need to also know who to take direction from based on their own understanding of historical data. 01:15:28.155 --> 01:15:38.235 Oh, this person, ex-artist, success story, A &R, songwriter, had hits here, producer, does live music, understands this world. 01:15:38.435 --> 01:15:41.956 You got to know how to be educated to know who's going to deliver the pizza, right? 01:15:42.256 --> 01:15:43.775 And help you make the pizza. 01:15:43.956 --> 01:15:47.336 And she's extremely coachable, which is so important. 01:15:47.336 --> 01:16:05.475 And so now, one major red flag for me with artist development and signing and developing talent, if you aren't open to taking songs or collaborating with songwriters and producers, I can't work for you. 01:16:05.916 --> 01:16:13.376 Because now I'm putting all the value in your intelligence as a songwriter and a creator. 01:16:13.376 --> 01:16:15.435 And I can't be so sure. 01:16:15.435 --> 01:16:24.115 I'm not saying you're not capable of making hits, but perhaps consider the possibility that somebody can help you. 01:16:24.275 --> 01:16:37.355 And if you're so territorial and you don't want anybody to have any input over the kind of music you're making, the direction of the music you're making, perhaps songs to sing. 01:16:37.615 --> 01:16:37.916 Yep. 01:16:37.916 --> 01:16:39.595 I don't want to be in business with you. 01:16:39.735 --> 01:16:40.395 Me neither. 01:16:40.615 --> 01:16:41.716 I love that, dude. 01:16:41.855 --> 01:16:42.176 It's tough. 01:16:42.376 --> 01:16:43.176 I fucking love that. 01:16:43.315 --> 01:16:43.935 Straight up. 01:16:44.055 --> 01:16:47.475 I don't want to be in business with you because now you're perhaps a liability. 01:16:47.695 --> 01:16:55.836 I got to rely on you because what if somebody sent me, imagine, John Lennon. 01:16:55.916 --> 01:16:56.216 Yeah. 01:16:56.496 --> 01:17:00.615 What if somebody sent me rude boy, Rihanna? 01:17:01.076 --> 01:17:01.235 Yeah. 01:17:01.235 --> 01:17:04.235 What if somebody sent me teenage dream? 01:17:04.536 --> 01:17:05.055 I don't want it. 01:17:05.095 --> 01:17:05.735 I didn't write it. 01:17:06.176 --> 01:17:06.515 Right? 01:17:06.796 --> 01:17:07.876 I imagine that. 01:17:08.935 --> 01:17:11.315 Like, you won't even try your vocal on it. 01:17:11.435 --> 01:17:11.756 Yeah. 01:17:11.775 --> 01:17:15.416 And going back to Zara, she always tried. 01:17:16.076 --> 01:17:19.815 Now, there's been times where we cut records on her and she said, I don't love it. 01:17:19.836 --> 01:17:21.815 And we even knew, you know what? 01:17:21.815 --> 01:17:22.996 This doesn't feel right for you. 01:17:22.996 --> 01:17:28.895 But she always tried every song we pitched her and that's why she's still here and she's just getting started. 01:17:29.355 --> 01:17:41.796 And if you could compare that to another artist who's probably one of the greatest A &R person to me of this entire last 20 years is Robin Rihanna Fenty. 01:17:41.796 --> 01:17:52.275 Because she doesn't write those songs, but she knows how to inspire you to write those songs for her because of her star power and her energy and her aura. 01:17:52.536 --> 01:17:57.595 And she probably has more hit records that she was able to identify. 01:17:58.136 --> 01:18:02.855 Because there's 100 songs being pitched to that girl a month for the last 20 years. 01:18:03.036 --> 01:18:04.515 Everybody wants a Rihanna cut. 01:18:04.716 --> 01:18:07.496 But she was able to identify the hits. 01:18:07.496 --> 01:18:09.655 Please don't stop the music. 01:18:09.756 --> 01:18:10.515 Rude boy. 01:18:10.695 --> 01:18:11.996 Work, work, work, work, work. 01:18:12.235 --> 01:18:13.155 Ponder replay. 01:18:13.636 --> 01:18:13.756 Right? 01:18:13.956 --> 01:18:19.015 Where she knows what a hit record sounds like and she knows how to make a Rihanna. 01:18:19.315 --> 01:18:22.315 And to the point where, yeah, she did write

it. 01:18:22.435 --> 01:18:23.036 How about that? 01:18:23.475 --> 01:18:26.336 She wrote it as far as I'm concerned because I believe her. 01:18:26.716 --> 01:18:28.256 So that to me is the... 01:18:28.256 --> 01:18:30.336 Those artists are very important. 01:18:30.496 --> 01:18:37.416 The ones who understand what hit records are and how important hit records are. 01:18:37.496 --> 01:18:38.496 To your business. 01:18:39.416 --> 01:18:41.576 Because music sells everything but it sells. 01:18:41.695 --> 01:18:44.275 But I bet you the more hit records you have, the more tickets you sell. 01:18:44.536 --> 01:18:48.275 The more hit records you have, the more beauty products you can sell. 01:18:48.376 --> 01:18:49.256 If that's what you want to do. 01:18:49.655 --> 01:18:56.496 And the more hit records you have, the bigger the brand that can have more value to command more dollars and everything else. 01:18:56.636 --> 01:19:01.376 So the music industry will always be about a hit record. 01:19:01.615 --> 01:19:03.416 And don't let anybody tell you otherwise. 01:19:03.615 --> 01:19:05.456 If they're telling you otherwise, they're lying to you. 01:19:05.456 --> 01:19:08.336 Hit records move everything. 01:19:08.655 --> 01:19:14.796 And when I say hit records, I'm not talking about radio chart topping number ones. 01:19:14.996 --> 01:19:16.536 That's the old hit record. 01:19:16.916 --> 01:19:20.655 I'm not talking about a song that's number one on TRL Countdown. 01:19:20.655 --> 01:19:26.536 I'm talking about a song that hits the customer in a very significant way. 01:19:26.956 --> 01:19:31.956 And has hundreds of millions of streams or even tens of millions of streams. 01:19:32.176 --> 01:19:34.975 Because your hit record could sell you 400 tickets. 01:19:35.376 --> 01:19:39.935 You put out 10 hit records for your audience. 01:19:40.595 --> 01:19:42.935 You're selling 700 tickets a night. 01:19:43.355 --> 01:19:45.376 Those hit records don't have to have a billion streams. 01:19:45.376 --> 01:19:52.895 But for your indie audience, you have 20 million streams, 10 million streams, 8 million streams. 01:19:53.115 --> 01:19:54.275 That hit a lot of people. 01:19:54.615 --> 01:19:55.935 Don't take that for granted. 01:19:56.275 --> 01:19:56.395 Yeah. 01:19:56.735 --> 01:19:58.935 Like the idea of I need 100 million streams. 01:19:59.136 --> 01:19:59.615 I need a half. 01:19:59.815 --> 01:20:00.695 Good luck. 01:20:01.456 --> 01:20:03.515 Get 100,000 streams first. 01:20:04.115 --> 01:20:05.876 Then try for a million. 01:20:06.475 --> 01:20:09.655 And then to me, once you get 3, 4, 5, 10 million, yo, you got a hit. 01:20:10.136 --> 01:20:13.176 Whether you believe it or not, I'm telling you, you got a hit record. 01:20:13.336 --> 01:20:15.916 And that could command audience and that could sell something. 01:20:16.195 --> 01:20:20.956 And just keep on trying and keep on writing and keep on releasing. 01:20:21.155 --> 01:20:22.336 And 1 plus 1 equals 4. 01:20:22.395 --> 01:20:23.216 That's the music business. 01:20:23.355 --> 01:20:24.595 Olivia Dean, 10 years. 01:20:25.195 --> 01:20:26.435 Like, are you kidding me? 01:20:26.456 --> 01:20:27.536 Who has the stomach? 01:20:28.475 --> 01:20:47.055 What investor, what manager, what record company, what artist has the stomach for 10 years of being kicked in the teeth and making no money and performing in front of 200 people a night and losing$1,000 every time you got to fucking perform? 01:20:47.576 --> 01:20:48.735 Do you think it's easy to tour? 01:20:48.975 --> 01:20:51.456 So these artists are like, I don't want a partner. 01:20:51.456 --> 01:20:52.595 I don't want an investor. 01:20:52.756 --> 01:20:53.756 I want to do everything myself. 01:20:53.756 --> 01:20:57.916 Okay, good luck paying for the road because you're going to starve. 01:20:58.395 --> 01:21:00.055 You're not going to have the money. 01:21:00.435 --> 01:21:05.015 Do you know how much it costs to do a show in front of 100 people? 01:21:05.336 --> 01:21:09.695 Like, you know how much it costs to do an eight-city tour? 01:21:10.296 --> 01:21:11.595 You got to rent the van. 01:21:12.176 --> 01:21:13.916 You got to fill it up with gas. 01:21:13.916 --> 01:21:26.975 You should have a professional driver because you don't want to, like, risk your life driving the van or having your drummer who's been up all night performing with you, driving in the middle of the night. 01:21:26.975 --> 01:21:28.676 But you have to because you can't afford a driver. 01:21:28.876 --> 01:21:32.315 And then you got to pay the musicians because you're not going to go perform to track. 01:21:32.416 --> 01:21:33.876 You got to present yourself. 01:21:33.876 --> 01:21:38.395 So just to be on your first headlining tour, you're losing $10,000. 01:21:38.475 --> 01:21:40.015 You're losing $20,000. 01:21:40.475 --> 01:21:45.055 Just to do your first headlining tour and you have 30 million streams. 01:21:45.435 --> 01:21:55.416 Just to do your first headline tour, Mercury Lounge, Moroccan Lounge, 250 seats, you're losing $10,000 just to do your first headline tour. 01:21:55.735 --> 01:21:57.895 You're trying to make it up in T-shirts. 01:21:58.256 --> 01:21:59.655 That's a lot of T-shirts, Chris. 01:22:00.956 --> 01:22:05.935 So now you need $5,000 of tour support because you did the budget. 01:22:06.136 --> 01:22:07.416 You got to rehearse for two weeks. 01:22:07.536 --> 01:22:08.615 You got to hire the MD. 01:22:08.895 --> 01:22:16.655 You got to hire at least two other people to go on the road with you, a tour manager and a guitar player who's running a laptop. 01:22:16.876 --> 01:22:18.395 I'm not even saying a full band. 01:22:18.515 --> 01:22:21.195 I'm not even saying a bass player, a drummer, a guitar player. 01:22:21.195 --> 01:22:32.876 I'm just talking about a road manager that is going to drive that band or help you with those flights and one other musician on stage that can also control tracks.

01:22:33.216 --> 01:22:36.996 So he or she is playing the guitar and they're running all the other tracks on the laptop. 01:22:37.475 --> 01:22:39.636 That alone is going to lose you money. 01:22:39.815 --> 01:22:41.555 So now you're down $5,000. 01:22:41.555 --> 01:22:42.576 You need tour support. 01:22:42.716 --> 01:22:43.735 Who's going to give you tour support? 01:22:44.155 --> 01:22:44.676 Exactly. 01:22:44.836 --> 01:22:45.775 Your business partner. 01:22:46.395 --> 01:22:48.055 That's why you need a partner. 01:22:48.336 --> 01:22:52.996 It's not just I want a piece of this and I want a piece of that and I'm not going to do anything for it. 01:22:53.155 --> 01:22:55.336 It costs a lot of money to build a career. 01:22:55.576 --> 01:23:00.336 And you need to go on that first headlining tour, even if you're performing in front of 200 people. 01:23:00.676 --> 01:23:02.576 And you need to sell those tickets. 01:23:02.935 --> 01:23:07.336 And it's hard to sell 200 tickets, believe it or not, even with 10 million streams. 01:23:07.475 --> 01:23:07.895 Go try. 01:23:08.176 --> 01:23:08.855 You know what I'm saying? 01:23:08.916 --> 01:23:11.155 I know a band who has 90 million streams. 01:23:11.155 --> 01:23:17.275 I know a band who has 90 million streams and they can't sell 90 tickets in New York City. 01:23:17.595 --> 01:23:18.235 Okay. 01:23:18.815 --> 01:23:19.975 They got to go on the road. 01:23:20.456 --> 01:23:25.435 But 80 seats, three months later, 150 seats. 01:23:25.876 --> 01:23:28.796 Six months later, 250 seats. 01:23:29.155 --> 01:23:31.595 A year later, 500 seats. 01:23:31.975 --> 01:23:34.595 Two years later, 1,800 seats. 01:23:34.595 --> 01:23:39.655 Who's going to sustain you through that period of artist development on the road? 01:23:39.975 --> 01:23:49.815 When you're losing money every tour until you sell 700, 800 tickets is when you actually could probably start making some money in your pocket. 01:23:50.216 --> 01:23:51.416 Somebody got to invest. 01:23:51.655 --> 01:23:53.555 That's why you need a business partner. 01:23:53.716 --> 01:23:57.095 But your lawyer told you that they're trying to take advantage of you. 01:23:57.095 --> 01:24:01.615 They outpriced the company because I put all the money in your pocket. 01:24:02.155 --> 01:24:10.376 And now I don't have enough money to invest in tour support, in developing your live show, in hiring a vocal coach, not a vocal producer. 01:24:10.636 --> 01:24:14.456 Somebody to just help you train your voice for the road. 01:24:14.636 --> 01:24:16.376 This is all artist development. 01:24:16.775 --> 01:24:18.735 And this is what Berry Gordy. 01:24:18.895 --> 01:24:20.416 This is what David Geffen. 01:24:20.636 --> 01:24:22.115 This is what Clive Davis. 01:24:22.315 --> 01:24:23.775 This is what Ahmet Ertegun. 01:24:23.775 --> 01:24:24.456 L.A. 01:24:24.536 --> 01:24:27.155 Reid, Babyface, Jimmy Iovine, Dr. 01:24:27.336 --> 01:24:27.576 Dre. 01:24:27.895 --> 01:24:28.996 The list

goes on. 01:24:29.115 --> 01:24:31.756 The great record man would invest in these things. 01:24:31.895 --> 01:24:38.296 It's not just in your fucking hairdresser or your fucking stylist to make you look good for a shoot. 01:24:38.496 --> 01:24:43.036 It's in everything that happens behind the scenes to get you on that stage. 01:24:43.176 --> 01:24:47.256 That rehearsal that costs $200 for every four hours. 01:24:47.475 --> 01:24:49.695 And I'm rehearsing you for three weeks. 01:24:49.695 --> 01:24:54.636 That MD that costs $3,000 just to put together your live show. 01:24:55.055 --> 01:25:00.115 And they got to go through all the stems of all your songs and configurate a show. 01:25:00.456 --> 01:25:01.435 Paying that drummer. 01:25:01.956 --> 01:25:04.855 Paying them a per diem every day when they're rehearsing with you. 01:25:04.996 --> 01:25:06.876 So I'm paying the drummer $150 a rehearsal. 01:25:07.115 --> 01:25:08.315 I'm also paying for their lunch. 01:25:08.515 --> 01:25:09.376 There's three of them. 01:25:09.496 --> 01:25:11.716 That's $450 just in salaries. 01:25:11.916 --> 01:25:12.975 Then I got to pay for food. 01:25:13.155 --> 01:25:14.355 Then I got to pay for the music director. 01:25:14.355 --> 01:25:19.796 So I'm spending $1,200 a day just to rehearse you. 01:25:20.036 --> 01:25:21.555 And I'm doing it for three weeks. 01:25:21.716 --> 01:25:25.395 Well, that just cost me $21,000 just to get you on the road. 01:25:25.636 --> 01:25:35.095 Then I got to hire somebody to create the light show or create the graphics that go on the screen because you're performing in front of 500 people at the El Rey or the Bowery Barroom. 01:25:35.576 --> 01:25:37.315 Who do you think is paying for that? 01:25:37.695 --> 01:25:39.536 You're paying for it out of your pocket. 01:25:39.916 --> 01:25:41.935 And do you want to pay for that? 01:25:41.935 --> 01:25:43.095 So I'll pay for it. 01:25:43.136 --> 01:25:44.015 I'm your record company. 01:25:44.015 --> 01:25:44.716 I'm your manager. 01:25:44.935 --> 01:25:45.695 I'm your business partner. 01:25:45.855 --> 01:25:48.735 And I'm now in debt another$50,000. 01:25:48.735 --> 01:25:49.615 I just told you. 01:25:49.756 --> 01:25:56.176 I gave an artist $35,000 in tour support to go on tour, on a club tour. 01:25:56.895 --> 01:26:00.256 16 markets, 300 cap rooms. 01:26:00.636 --> 01:26:01.956 We made no money. 01:26:02.155 --> 01:26:10.636 I had to pay for her to go on the road because I had to rehearse the band, hire the vocal director, hire the music director, pay the band, get her a little small tour bus. 01:26:11.595 --> 01:26:13.836 And I never made the money back. 01:26:13.836 --> 01:26:18.395 It took me eight years to recoup 150 grand inclusive of that tour support. 01:26:18.655 --> 01:26:20.195 This is the business partner. 01:26:20.456 --> 01:26:22.935 They're going to wait seven years to recoup. 01:26:23.055 --> 01:26:23.695 But you know what? 01:26:24.176 --> 01:26:27.195 We got the stomach for Olivia Dean 10 years later. 01:26:27.895 --> 01:26:30.376 We got the stomach for Zara Larsson 10 years. 01:26:30.595 --> 01:26:30.735 Right? 01:26:30.956 --> 01:26:31.775 So that's what I'm saying. 01:26:31.935 --> 01:26:32.895 It's a long game. 01:26:33.136 --> 01:26:43.555 And if you're not looking at this as a long game approach and you're not trying to find the business partners that are invested into the long game, then you're never going to make it as a recording artist. 01:26:43.676 --> 01:26:51.515 Because there's so many things that have to be paid for behind the scenes that has nothing to do with singing and dancing on TikTok. 01:26:51.655 --> 01:26:55.036 They have nothing to do with Spotify and Apple streams. 01:26:55.376 --> 01:26:55.935 Right? 01:26:56.095 --> 01:27:00.155 That we, somebody has to invest in to develop you. 01:27:00.155 --> 01:27:02.296 And that's where artist development is dead. 01:27:02.296 --> 01:27:08.235 Because nobody wants to spend the money and nobody has a stomach to develop the artists. 01:27:08.235 --> 01:27:15.015 Because the truth is they don't have the skin in the game where they're going to be compensated because of the lawyers. 01:27:15.456 --> 01:27:16.735 I'm being honest with you. 01:27:17.416 --> 01:27:19.876 It's because of the way these deals look. 01:27:20.076 --> 01:27:21.695 I don't have any ancillary. 01:27:21.855 --> 01:27:23.336 I don't have a piece of your touring. 01:27:23.615 --> 01:27:25.275 So why should I invest in it? 01:27:25.475 --> 01:27:27.176 It's not going to help me stream. 01:27:27.876 --> 01:27:30.416 Like I just told you, you got 90 million streams. 01:27:30.576 --> 01:27:31.735 You can't sell 90 tickets. 01:27:31.956 --> 01:27:34.275 So I clearly know how to get streams. 01:27:34.315 --> 01:27:35.555 You can't sell tickets. 01:27:35.735 --> 01:27:40.256 So to me, you selling a thousand tickets isn't going to get me a million streams. 01:27:40.256 --> 01:27:45.716 So why am I going to spend 35 grand to put you on the road when I'm not getting a piece of your touring? 01:27:45.935 --> 01:27:49.376 And you're not going to make any money touring for three to five years anyway. 01:27:49.555 --> 01:27:51.015 So I don't want you touring. 01:27:51.395 --> 01:27:56.355 But imagine if I was developing you as a real 360 artist. 01:27:56.355 --> 01:27:57.336 And I said, you know what? 01:27:57.475 --> 01:27:59.235 I'm going to sign you at 16 years old. 01:27:59.355 --> 01:28:00.676 And you're the next Bruno Mars. 01:28:00.855 --> 01:28:03.475 And one day you're going to be performing in front of 60,000 people. 01:28:03.636 --> 01:28:07.176 And I don't care if it takes me$5 million worth of investment. 01:28:07.176 --> 01:28:08.595 I am going to break you. 01:28:08.595 --> 01:28:12.456 That's the business relationship we want to have with artists at Electric Feel. 01:28:12.655 --> 01:28:14.996 We want to be in it for the long game. 01:28:15.195 --> 01:28:21.275 And we know that

we have the stomach to endure and the cash to sustain as long as you're on board. 01:28:21.435 --> 01:28:24.916 And I feel like that's where artists have to find partners. 01:28:25.275 --> 01:28:28.475 All these short-term deals in and out, good luck. 01:28:28.576 --> 01:28:31.956 You're always going to be dating and breaking up, dating and breaking up, trying new people. 01:28:31.956 --> 01:28:42.515 I think it's about finding the right business partner with the right acumen, with the right philosophy on how the business works and how long it's really going to take. 01:28:42.655 --> 01:28:43.655 Like no smoke and mirrors. 01:28:43.796 --> 01:28:45.155 I'm not selling anybody a dream. 01:28:45.376 --> 01:28:49.115 It's going to take you three to five years to start making money. 01:28:49.496 --> 01:28:50.796 You will starve. 01:28:51.055 --> 01:28:52.235 Don't quit your day job. 01:28:52.456 --> 01:28:54.315 Don't take too much money off the table. 01:28:54.555 --> 01:28:56.036 Put the money on the screen. 01:28:56.036 --> 01:29:00.296 And touring is a loss for the first 24 months. 01:29:00.475 --> 01:29:05.695 Unless you're selling 700, 800 tickets and it takes a lot of time to build that fanfare. 01:29:05.876 --> 01:29:10.136 Just because you have a song with 100 million streams doesn't mean you can sell 700 tickets. 01:29:10.815 --> 01:29:14.315 It's going to require somebody to invest in your tour development. 01:29:14.536 --> 01:29:16.695 And that's all part of artist development. 01:29:16.895 --> 01:29:19.095 And that's the reason why we have the Bruno Mars. 01:29:19.235 --> 01:29:21.036 And that's the reason why we have Michael Jackson. 01:29:21.216 --> 01:29:22.975 And that's the reason why we have Beyoncé. 01:29:22.975 --> 01:29:25.676 Because Pink and all these artists. 01:29:25.855 --> 01:29:30.836 Because somebody spent a lot of money to make those artists who they are today. 01:29:31.076 --> 01:29:33.195 And then you've got artists like Sombr, right? 01:29:33.416 --> 01:29:37.015 And Dominic Fike, the next generation of stars. 01:29:37.235 --> 01:29:42.416 And Benson Boone, who are also being funded at the highest level. 01:29:42.515 --> 01:29:52.576 I told you, to promote some of these songs, Warner Records is spending$150,000 a week on just advertising for one single. 01:29:52.576 --> 01:29:55.155 To get it in front of your face every fucking day. 01:29:56.475 --> 01:29:57.996 This is real business. 01:29:58.275 --> 01:30:00.095 And we're happy to spend the money. 01:30:00.315 --> 01:30:05.036 If we see the signs and we know that we're in the game for a long period of time, right? 01:30:05.235 --> 01:30:07.975 So I just think it's about understanding the business. 01:30:08.456 --> 01:30:10.015 Knowing what I bring to the table. 01:30:10.275 --> 01:30:17.296 And also me knowing what you're willing to do to succeed. 01:30:18.036 --> 01:30:20.155 Like, are you going to sleep in the van? 01:30:20.435 --> 01:30:22.376 Are you going to eat ramen? 01:30:23.155 --> 01:30:25.996 Are you going to go out on the road without a full band? 01:30:26.136 --> 01:30:27.296 Because we can't afford it, Sally. 01:30:27.735 --> 01:30:28.916 Can't afford a full band. 01:30:29.115 --> 01:30:30.475 Poor Sally. 01:30:31.055 --> 01:30:33.376 You may have to go out with just a drummer and tracks. 01:30:33.595 --> 01:30:34.916 I don't want to perform without it. 01:30:35.496 --> 01:30:36.195 Well, do you know what? 01:30:36.296 --> 01:30:37.435 We can't do the tour. 01:30:37.615 --> 01:30:38.555 What do you want me to tell you? 01:30:38.716 --> 01:30:39.735 We ain't got no money. 01:30:39.935 --> 01:30:40.876 We ain't making no money. 01:30:40.876 --> 01:30:47.756 But you got to still get out there and perform in front of people, even if you're doing it with a drummer and a track and a laptop. 01:30:47.815 --> 01:30:49.336 But you still got to get out there. 01:30:49.475 --> 01:30:51.095 So even some of them are entitled. 01:30:51.315 --> 01:30:53.935 Some of the artists feel like it's like the good old days. 01:30:54.036 --> 01:30:54.815 Well, I need a band. 01:30:55.036 --> 01:30:57.796 And well, who's paying for the band? 01:30:58.136 --> 01:31:00.076 So I think about educating. 01:31:00.275 --> 01:31:06.025 And I would rather educate the artist on what it really takes than to blow smoke. 01:31:06.845 --> 01:31:09.525 Because this is your livelihood, right? 01:31:10.065 --> 01:31:11.746 And I'm not going to lie to you. 01:31:11.985 --> 01:31:14.786 It's going to take three to five years to start making any money. 01:31:15.006 --> 01:31:20.706 Do not quit your day job just because you got a record deal or you got a business partner to invest in you. 01:31:20.985 --> 01:31:23.466 And you're going to be doing most of the work. 01:31:25.286 --> 01:31:27.945 Like 90% of the work is going to be done by you. 01:31:28.065 --> 01:31:30.466 So there's no victim mentality. 01:31:30.786 --> 01:31:34.025 There's no codependency, even with a label. 01:31:34.685 --> 01:31:38.365 If all the label did is pay the bills, that's enough. 01:31:38.666 --> 01:31:39.765 I'm just being honest with you. 01:31:40.525 --> 01:31:42.286 Damn, that one hurt, bro. 01:31:42.605 --> 01:31:44.786 If all the label did was pay the bill, that's enough. 01:31:45.086 --> 01:31:46.905 You're going to be doing all the work. 01:31:47.305 --> 01:31:49.105 And you should know how to do the work. 01:31:49.286 --> 01:31:57.506 Hence why you should have a great manager who's aligned with you in a business relationship to kind of do the artist development. 01:31:57.645 --> 01:31:58.805 Look at the Chappell Roan story. 01:31:59.006 --> 01:32:00.845 The managers are developing the artists. 01:32:01.126 --> 01:32:03.426 They're almost part of the band. 01:32:03.426 --> 01:32:05.485 To me, the artist and the manager are the band. 01:32:06.345 --> 01:32:07.365 We're an investor. 01:32:07.886 --> 01:32:09.386 Yeah, we have some know-with-all.

01:32:09.466 --> 01:32:10.086 We have marketing. 01:32:10.185 --> 01:32:10.765 We have digital. 01:32:10.865 --> 01:32:12.466 We understand the business. 01:32:12.645 --> 01:32:17.326 But at the end of the day, if we're just spending the money, that's enough. 01:32:17.765 --> 01:32:19.326 And I tell artists that now. 01:32:19.485 --> 01:32:20.746 I said, I gave you an advance. 01:32:20.765 --> 01:32:22.345 I'm paying you a living stipend. 01:32:22.445 --> 01:32:24.185 I'm spending money on advertising. 01:32:24.305 --> 01:32:25.905 I'm spending money on recording. 01:32:26.006 --> 01:32:27.345 I'm giving you a studio. 01:32:27.525 --> 01:32:28.826 I'm paying your producers. 01:32:29.126 --> 01:32:30.126 I'm paying your engineer. 01:32:30.126 --> 01:32:37.966 Do not ever give me any grief or make me feel like I did something to you because I paid the bills. 01:32:38.345 --> 01:32:38.706 Damn. 01:32:39.326 --> 01:32:42.046 Chris, we've entered a final segment of the podcast. 01:32:42.246 --> 01:32:42.845 God damn it. 01:32:42.845 --> 01:32:44.286 Do you guys still have the stomach for this? 01:32:44.365 --> 01:32:46.126 Dude, I - After this episode, I hope you do. 01:32:46.126 --> 01:32:50.326 That was a big, like - Bumps a wake-up call. 01:32:50.506 --> 01:32:50.985 Gut check. 01:32:51.185 --> 01:32:51.765 You know what I mean? 01:32:52.006 --> 01:32:54.386 Chris, I have something very special for this final segment. 01:32:54.386 --> 01:32:57.485 I'm calling it sign or decline. 01:32:57.886 --> 01:32:58.305 Okay. 01:32:58.326 --> 01:32:58.865 Let's do it. 01:32:58.926 --> 01:32:59.445 Let's go. 01:32:59.666 --> 01:33:01.746 So here's how this is going to work. 01:33:01.966 --> 01:33:04.305 I have seven artists that I'm going to describe. 01:33:05.086 --> 01:33:06.886 And you can only sign three of them. 01:33:07.006 --> 01:33:08.786 But you have to make the decision as we go along. 01:33:08.786 --> 01:33:10.025 So you got to be smart about this. 01:33:10.166 --> 01:33:10.546 Okay. 01:33:10.626 --> 01:33:12.645 I might give you one trade if you sign three. 01:33:12.966 --> 01:33:15.945 I think I'll allow one trade at some point. 01:33:16.006 --> 01:33:17.645 But you can only end up with three. 01:33:17.845 --> 01:33:18.746 And that's it. 01:33:18.865 --> 01:33:23.126 So let's go ahead and start with the first one. 01:33:24.126 --> 01:33:29.305 We're talking about, he's 19, dropped out of college, no budget, no team. 01:33:29.485 --> 01:33:33.246 He bought a beat online and recorded the song in about an hour. 01:33:33.466 --> 01:33:35.445 His entire marketing plan is memes. 01:33:35.685 --> 01:33:36.826 Do you sign or decline? 01:33:37.126 --> 01:33:37.565 Decline. 01:33:38.086 --> 01:33:40.426 We just declined Lil Nas X. 01:33:41.685 --> 01:33:43.805 Listen, I declined today. 01:33:44.006 --> 01:33:45.626 I don't care how many records he sold. 01:33:45.826 --> 01:33:48.065 I would have never, I wouldn't sign him today. 01:33:48.386 --> 01:33:48.945

There it is. 01:33:49.246 --> 01:33:49.945 Oh, shit. 01:33:50.386 --> 01:33:52.626 I love how honest Chris is, man. 01:33:52.706 --> 01:33:54.086 We need more Chris's in the world. 01:33:55.065 --> 01:33:59.685 And to add to that, I knew it was going to go down in flames. 01:34:00.746 --> 01:34:09.305 When he started being blasphemous in a very public way to the Lord Jesus Christ, I knew it was over. 01:34:09.845 --> 01:34:11.246 And he hasn't recovered since. 01:34:11.765 --> 01:34:12.086 Yeah. 01:34:12.506 --> 01:34:14.145 I guess, is he down in flames though? 01:34:14.286 --> 01:34:15.466 I mean, he's down. 01:34:15.466 --> 01:34:16.386 He's down. 01:34:16.386 --> 01:34:16.985 He's down. 01:34:17.185 --> 01:34:18.365 Nobody's talking about Lil Nas X. 01:34:18.546 --> 01:34:18.905 Yeah, that's true. 01:34:19.305 --> 01:34:19.445 Yeah. 01:34:19.706 --> 01:34:19.905 All right. 01:34:20.145 --> 01:34:20.565 Next. 01:34:20.826 --> 01:34:21.626 Artist number two. 01:34:22.006 --> 01:34:22.966 Late 20s. 01:34:23.086 --> 01:34:24.386 A decade of grinding. 01:34:24.845 --> 01:34:25.645 Two indie albums. 01:34:26.145 --> 01:34:27.626 One year into a major deal. 01:34:28.666 --> 01:34:33.305 She just put out what she calls the best song that she has ever written. 01:34:33.586 --> 01:34:35.706 And absolutely nothing happened. 01:34:36.006 --> 01:34:38.685 And now she says if she quit music today, no one would notice. 01:34:39.305 --> 01:34:39.645 Sign. 01:34:40.225 --> 01:34:40.666 Hmm. 01:34:42.405 --> 01:34:43.445 Does he know who it is? 01:34:43.586 --> 01:34:46.725 Well, it's any, let's, I want to get a sentence or two of your thought process. 01:34:46.725 --> 01:34:54.485 The reason why I was signed that artist is because I've been in a situation with an artist who, you know, was kicked and, kicked and bruised, but not broken. 01:34:54.485 --> 01:35:00.586 And 15 years later, she had a number one record and won a Grammy for best R &B song. 01:35:00.706 --> 01:35:02.666 It was nominated for best new artist, Muni Long. 01:35:02.926 --> 01:35:03.225 Okay. 01:35:03.225 --> 01:35:06.706 So I know that that, that foundation is important. 01:35:06.966 --> 01:35:11.225 Like, like that God's universe rewards you when you have that much resilience. 01:35:11.225 --> 01:35:13.506 So you just, I wouldn't give up on that artist. 01:35:13.685 --> 01:35:14.485 Is that Muni Long? 01:35:14.666 --> 01:35:15.725 That artist was Lizzo. 01:35:15.985 --> 01:35:17.966 That song went number one, two years later. 01:35:18.145 --> 01:35:18.626 Okay. 01:35:18.886 --> 01:35:19.345 Great signing. 01:35:19.546 --> 01:35:20.865 Would you sign Lizzo today? 01:35:20.865 --> 01:35:29.746 Well, listen, I would have signed Lizzo and I would have had success with Lizzo and I would have continued developing her repertoire to keep her on the charts, right? 01:35:29.826 --> 01:35:33.126 Because she was hit driven and you have to keep that up. 01:35:33.206 --> 01:35:35.685 And unfortunately

she's not having success. 01:35:36.025 --> 01:35:36.225 Why? 01:35:36.966 --> 01:35:38.626 Because she doesn't have a hit. 01:35:39.706 --> 01:35:41.206 God comes back to the hits, Henry. 01:35:41.206 --> 01:35:53.586 Artist number three is 19, just moved to Texas, from Texas to LA to live in a content house and is seeing some very promising traction on SoundCloud right now. 01:35:54.046 --> 01:35:54.326 Sign. 01:35:54.865 --> 01:35:56.086 And thought process? 01:35:56.345 --> 01:35:57.166 You know what? 01:35:57.286 --> 01:36:01.126 I think I love that, that attitude of living in a content house. 01:36:01.305 --> 01:36:13.145 I think that understanding of content, social gravitas, media is very important for artists in this world and I would bet on that artist because they're already walking them with the right philosophy. 01:36:13.426 --> 01:36:13.945 Who is it? 01:36:14.025 --> 01:36:15.065 You just signed Post Malone. 01:36:15.586 --> 01:36:20.506 Whoa! Shit! Let's go! Not bad, not bad. 01:36:20.886 --> 01:36:21.185 Damn. 01:36:21.725 --> 01:36:23.746 So there's four artists left. 01:36:23.865 --> 01:36:25.725 You've signed two, just so you're aware. 01:36:26.006 --> 01:36:27.286 I think they're great signings. 01:36:27.345 --> 01:36:28.145 They are, they are. 01:36:28.305 --> 01:36:29.006 We got some left. 01:36:29.145 --> 01:36:35.826 So artist number four, 22 years old, signed to a major at 17 off of a YouTube upload. 01:36:36.506 --> 01:36:40.685 Five years later, the label says that her new single doesn't fit the sound. 01:36:41.006 --> 01:36:41.725 They drop her. 01:36:41.966 --> 01:36:45.166 And at the same week, her four year relationship ends. 01:36:45.466 --> 01:36:48.305 So she has to move back in with her parents and work at a drive-thru. 01:36:48.845 --> 01:36:50.345 I, um, decline. 01:36:50.645 --> 01:36:51.006 Okay. 01:36:51.826 --> 01:36:52.025 Interesting. 01:36:52.386 --> 01:36:52.746 And I'll tell you why. 01:36:53.685 --> 01:36:55.605 Because I wouldn't have moved back. 01:36:56.126 --> 01:36:57.405 I got to keep on going. 01:36:57.605 --> 01:36:58.985 That resilience is very important. 01:36:59.166 --> 01:37:00.926 It's indicative of that spirit of the artist. 01:37:01.046 --> 01:37:01.345 Okay. 01:37:01.345 --> 01:37:06.065 They have what it takes to really endure this, this rigmarole of the record business. 01:37:06.305 --> 01:37:06.405 Okay. 01:37:06.546 --> 01:37:08.826 Well, the resilience did come back because that is Chappell Roan. 01:37:09.265 --> 01:37:09.666 Okay. 01:37:10.326 --> 01:37:11.126 Oh, okay. 01:37:11.786 --> 01:37:12.765 The resilience popped. 01:37:12.886 --> 01:37:13.265 It came back. 01:37:13.386 --> 01:37:15.006 Maybe she just had to go down to come back. 01:37:15.166 --> 01:37:16.065 You know what I'm saying? 01:37:16.166 --> 01:37:16.445 Okay. 01:37:16.666 --> 01:37:16.886 Okay. 01:37:17.126 --> 01:37:18.386 So maybe worded it kind of tricky. 01:37:18.626 --> 01:37:21.905 I mean, now listen, for all due respect, I don't know her music. 01:37:22.185 --> 01:37:22.405 Yeah. 01:37:23.126 --> 01:37:25.086 I'm not a fan of Chappell Roan. 01:37:25.305 --> 01:37:26.485 I never bought into it. 01:37:26.605 --> 01:37:26.786 Yeah. 01:37:26.966 --> 01:37:27.166 Same. 01:37:27.166 --> 01:37:29.666 I wouldn't miss, I wouldn't miss sleep. 01:37:29.945 --> 01:37:30.185 Yeah. 01:37:30.386 --> 01:37:30.565 Okay. 01:37:30.886 --> 01:37:31.126 Cool. 01:37:31.225 --> 01:37:32.386 That was a, then that was a good decline. 01:37:32.546 --> 01:37:33.145 I would say so. 01:37:33.305 --> 01:37:33.506 Yeah. 01:37:33.685 --> 01:37:33.926 It fits. 01:37:34.105 --> 01:37:34.405 Okay. 01:37:35.025 --> 01:37:35.225 Okay. 01:37:35.265 --> 01:37:37.126 Moving on to artist number five. 01:37:37.466 --> 01:37:41.546 In her early teens, never released any music, no manager, no plan. 01:37:41.706 --> 01:37:46.145 A family member writes and produces a song in a bedroom at their home. 01:37:46.386 --> 01:37:51.725 She sings it and they upload it to SoundCloud and it's starting to see some real buzz. 01:37:52.305 --> 01:37:52.746 Decline. 01:37:53.065 --> 01:37:53.426 Mm-hmm. 01:37:54.865 --> 01:37:55.305 Interesting. 01:37:55.605 --> 01:37:56.286 Why, why is that? 01:37:56.286 --> 01:38:00.626 I just don't like the idea of an artist not leaning into the artistry. 01:38:00.845 --> 01:38:02.185 A relative role. 01:38:02.426 --> 01:38:03.046 Early teens. 01:38:03.626 --> 01:38:05.265 I know it's Billie Eilish. 01:38:05.725 --> 01:38:06.945 It's Billie Eilish. 01:38:07.265 --> 01:38:08.086 You know what I'm saying? 01:38:08.725 --> 01:38:09.765 Fucking Finneas. 01:38:10.025 --> 01:38:10.426 I tried to. 01:38:10.725 --> 01:38:14.905 But I know it's Billie, but I would sign Billie and I love Finneas. 01:38:15.126 --> 01:38:17.605 And in fact, that artist that went on tour was with Finneas. 01:38:17.805 --> 01:38:20.426 But I just, oof. 01:38:21.246 --> 01:38:21.426 Yeah. 01:38:21.685 --> 01:38:25.586 I would have declined that one if I didn't hear the song. 01:38:25.805 --> 01:38:26.006 Yeah. 01:38:26.006 --> 01:38:28.065 But when I heard Ocean Eyes, I knew it was a bullet. 01:38:28.265 --> 01:38:28.405 Yeah. 01:38:28.405 --> 01:38:28.546 Yeah. 01:38:28.546 --> 01:38:33.685 But if I just heard that story without hearing the song and that tonality from Billie, I would have passed. 01:38:33.786 --> 01:38:37.746 Like, oh, I don't want to take a risk on a teenager who didn't write the song. 01:38:38.006 --> 01:38:39.145 Somebody wrote it for them. 01:38:39.565 --> 01:38:41.126 Who says they even want to be an artist? 01:38:41.386 --> 01:38:41.546 Right. 01:38:42.225 --> 01:38:42.865 It's true. 01:38:43.046 --> 01:38:43.466 It's true. 01:38:43.466 --> 01:38:43.565 It's true. 01:38:43.786 --> 01:38:44.065 Okay. 01:38:44.365 --> 01:38:44.586 Indeed. 01:38:45.025 --> 01:38:45.246 Okay. 01:38:45.365 --> 01:38:47.365 Artist number six, around 30 years old. 01:38:47.666 --> 01:38:50.485

She already had her major label album. 01:38:50.506 --> 01:38:52.326 It flopped and she got dropped. 01:38:52.586 --> 01:38:55.225 She spent the next 10 years writing hits for other people. 01:38:55.386 --> 01:39:01.126 Now wants to relaunch as an artist under a new brand name, independent with her own money. 01:39:01.126 --> 01:39:05.525 I would sign her because if she wrote hits, once a hit maker, always a hit maker. 01:39:05.725 --> 01:39:05.985 Okay. 01:39:06.426 --> 01:39:07.565 We just signed Muni Long. 01:39:07.826 --> 01:39:09.006 Oh, wow. 01:39:09.865 --> 01:39:10.185 Yay. 01:39:10.185 --> 01:39:10.865 Yay. 01:39:12.185 --> 01:39:13.046 Let's go. 01:39:13.746 --> 01:39:14.805 I love this game. 01:39:15.225 --> 01:39:16.185 Sign or decline, baby. 01:39:16.426 --> 01:39:17.086 This is the greatest. 01:39:17.805 --> 01:39:18.966 And that's a very important. 01:39:19.966 --> 01:39:21.305 That's very important. 01:39:21.746 --> 01:39:29.565 Although understanding that singing a hit record and identifying a hit, insert Rihanna, is very important. 01:39:29.565 --> 01:39:41.546 Like the idea of hoping somebody writes a hit record and knowing that my artist can write a hit record. 01:39:41.645 --> 01:39:41.886 Yes. 01:39:42.286 --> 01:39:42.685 Valuable. 01:39:42.886 --> 01:39:47.725 I'm going to bet on the artist who could write a hit record so that we can get more shots. 01:39:47.905 --> 01:39:48.145 Yes. 01:39:48.326 --> 01:39:48.546 That's right. 01:39:48.666 --> 01:39:48.826 Yes. 01:39:49.065 --> 01:39:49.225 Absolutely. 01:39:49.525 --> 01:39:49.706 All right. 01:39:49.786 --> 01:39:51.626 So last artist, you have three. 01:39:51.765 --> 01:39:52.565 So this is your opportunity. 01:39:52.565 --> 01:40:00.645 If you like the sound of this artist, you can trade one of your artists, but I want to know which one and why, if you'd like to exercise that option. 01:40:01.225 --> 01:40:01.246 Hey. 01:40:01.645 --> 01:40:03.685 Artist number seven, gospel singer. 01:40:03.945 --> 01:40:07.926 First album sells about 200 copies and then the label goes kaput. 01:40:08.185 --> 01:40:10.105 Then signs to a major and gets dropped. 01:40:10.286 --> 01:40:14.305 Then signs to another major, gets dropped again before the album even comes out. 01:40:14.805 --> 01:40:16.145 She's currently 22. 01:40:16.626 --> 01:40:26.485 And this has changed the course of my life because I'll never forget the day I heard that song and I would trade Liz off every day of the week. 01:40:26.485 --> 01:40:29.105 And I heard thinking of you. 01:40:29.445 --> 01:40:33.145 When I'm with him, I am thinking of you. 01:40:33.305 --> 01:40:37.865 And I met her through her publicist that was working at Columbia Records, Angelica Cobb. 01:40:37.966 --> 01:40:43.166 And she told me there's a girl named Katy Perry that the record company does not understand. 01:40:43.645 --> 01:40:45.345 And I want to send you her demos. 01:40:45.525 --> 01:40:48.506 And she sent me thinking of you and waking up in Vegas. 01:40:48.506 --> 01:40:55.826 And I knew instantly by the tonality of Katy's voice singing, thinking of you, that she was special. 01:40:56.065 --> 01:40:58.185 And she changed the course of my life. 01:40:58.185 --> 01:41:00.506 And she was 22 and I was 24. 01:41:00.586 --> 01:41:03.706 And I was living in New York City and Murray Hill. 01:41:04.025 --> 01:41:06.145 And the rest is history. 01:41:06.386 --> 01:41:08.405 We literally made history. 01:41:08.405 --> 01:41:20.905 I mean, if we go off of the billboard standards, because of Katy Perry, I'm the most successful A &R of the 21st century in terms of hot 100 number ones. 01:41:21.225 --> 01:41:27.926 We tied Michael Jackson with the most number ones in the history of recorded music on one album with Teenage Dream. 01:41:28.185 --> 01:41:31.265 And Katy Perry has changed the course of my life. 01:41:31.265 --> 01:41:44.685 And I will never in my entire career have the opportunity to work for an artist that has reached the level of success that Katy Perry has had. 01:41:44.706 --> 01:41:46.326 It will never happen again. 01:41:46.626 --> 01:41:49.006 The music industry does not work like that. 01:41:49.166 --> 01:41:53.565 It has stricken me of all anxiety to even try. 01:41:53.626 --> 01:41:57.905 And I'm enjoying this second half of my career in full stride because of it. 01:41:58.685 --> 01:42:01.645 But that, my friend, is Katy Perry. 01:42:01.746 --> 01:42:02.466 Let's go. 01:42:03.006 --> 01:42:03.725 On that note. 01:42:04.345 --> 01:42:06.445 That was incredible, dude. 01:42:06.966 --> 01:42:08.926 You were getting goosebumps again, as always. 01:42:09.145 --> 01:42:09.886 Of course, man. 01:42:10.025 --> 01:42:11.006 I'd be doing that, you know? 01:42:11.145 --> 01:42:11.605 For sure. 01:42:11.746 --> 01:42:13.065 Appreciate you coming on the podcast, man. 01:42:13.145 --> 01:42:14.485 We're here each and every week. 01:42:14.605 --> 01:42:15.485 Until next time, what are we doing? 01:42:15.626 --> 01:42:15.966 Getting out of here. 01:42:16.105 --> 01:42:16.605 Getting out of here.