النص الكامل لحلقة Psychotic Breaks: Delusions, Psychosis, or Something Else?

00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:24.080 I don't know either. 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:25.360 Wasn't listening. 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:26.960 I know. 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:32.639 Yeah, that's that's the real short story of what's been new with me. 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:36.000 I I also did get to see my family for 4th of July, so that was really great. 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:38.000 How many hot dogs did you eat this year? 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:39.039 Not many. 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:40.159 It was bad. 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:41.120 It was bad. 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:48.240 But we also like had lost power, and I the flights getting home got a little bit messed up because somebody slept through their flight. 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:48.879 Me. 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:49.919 Which was wild. 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:51.520 And I don't want to talk about that anymore. 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:52.639 Okay, what about you? 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:55.919 I I don't even know what else since yeah, other than declining. 00:02:57.280 --> 00:02:58.560 That's my baby. 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:00.319 Um, I miss him so much. 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:04.080 I miss him literally the second I got dropped off at the airport. 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:06.000 I was like, I need that baby back. 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:07.120 I need him. 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:08.400 He is very cute. 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:12.719 Yeah, just trying to do some summer things, and summer's almost over. 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:15.039 It's over when we're listening to the or when, yeah. 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:18.319 Yeah, when this comes out, it's it's pretty pretty close to over. 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:19.280 God, I hate that. 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:22.400 Well, should we get into some shop talk? 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:23.520 I think we shall. 00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:24.560 I think we shall. 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:27.199 We we have some pretty big shop talk today. 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:35.759 And Kara and I have been talking and we made some decisions when we're not, we are not going anywhere, but we're gonna be here a little bit less. 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:36.639 Yeah. 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:43.280 So for the foreseeable future, we are gonna be going down to two episodes a month in place of our four. 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.800 We're still gonna have our Reddits on Patreon, we're still gonna be active on there. 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:54.319 We just we realized at some point we weren't having as much fun doing this when it was taking all of our free time. 00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:58.560 Yeah, and now with like our time difference with each other is three hours difference. 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:10.639 It doesn't sound like a lot, but it is a lot when we're trying to plan and coordinate our lives and time to talk and chat and record, and you know, it's just not it's not fun anymore. 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:13.120 And it's not fair to us, to you guys. 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:18.000 So we're gonna we're gonna do less episodes, but I think we're gonna be able to pour more energy into it. 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:22.639 We're gonna take more time for ourselves to rest because we had done this for three years straight. 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:31.199 Yeah, and I have, you know, before Zach and I even talked about this, my talk shop for you guys this episode was gonna be like, hey, I'm really sorry because I've dropped the ball. 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:35.360 I have not posted on our Patreon in the whole month of June. 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:44.480 I don't think I've posted anything in majority of July because I just I've I've just had a lot of anxiety and things going on, and I'm like, I just dropped the ball. 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:46.000 And so I don't want to feel like that anymore. 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:50.240 Zach doesn't want to feel like he's always editing on his time and like like we love this. 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:50.959 We love this thing. 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:57.839 We want to keep loving it, but we want to get back to loving it so we stay around for a long it's it's quality over quantity, right? 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:01.680 Like at the end of the day, and we're gonna take a little more care of ourselves and come back more refreshed. 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:12.720 And I think that once we do this for a little bit and it gets funner again, funner when it gets to the way that it used to be, and maybe now that we've started adding, you know, we've we added a lot more stuff, right? 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:17.279 We did all the Patreon and then we have like the TikToks I fell off on, but we've added a lot more stuff. 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:25.120 But I think that once we can go down to this, get back into like some sort of rhythm or routine, you figure out your life there to coordinate heat with my life here. 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:30.240 I think that we could get back to more episodes, but for now, like we like some burnout. 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:38.079 No, and for a minute we were both like, we don't ever want to come back from this hiatus, and we don't want that. 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:38.879 So no. 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:42.000 Hopefully, no one's mad at us, but either way, sorry. 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:45.920 You can let us know if you are, but it's how it's gonna be. 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:46.480 Okay. 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:48.959 That's what we got for Shop Talk. 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:54.800 We'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on it, but otherwise, do you have a question for me so we can open? 00:05:55.279 --> 00:06:01.680 I do have a question, but it is a little bit I got a disclaimer and stuff to say first, and then I have a question. 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:02.639 Okay. 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.560 Well, okay, you know, we gotta come back with a bang, I guess. 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:09.120 Just kidding, it's not that serious. 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:14.480 Okay, so before we get started, like a little content warning. 00:06:14.639 -->

00:06:25.600 Today's episode discusses psychosis, hallucinations, delusions, and real cases involve involving unaliving or like violence of that nature. 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:29.839 And so, as always, our goal is to educate, not to sensationalize. 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:32.399 So I don't want anyone to think that that's what this is. 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:36.160 Um, so if this really doesn't sound like an episode for you today, I get it. 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:36.800 That's fine. 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:38.319 You can drop out. 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:39.040 I understand. 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:39.519 Okay. 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:40.399 Question. 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:41.360 Yeah, hold on. 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:42.399 Do I have it? 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.759 Asking me if you have a question does not kind of do that. 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.399 No, because I started reading through and I was like, where's my question? 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:55.680 Okay, so while reaching, researching this episode, this is the question I kept coming back to, and so I'm gonna ask it to you. 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:56.480 Cool. 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:04.480 How do we tell the difference between a genuine spiritual experience or psychosis? 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.920 How do I answer that in the length of not an episode? 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:10.319 I I in you know what actually How would you? 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:14.399 Like if somebody were to be like, I had like this, you know. 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:16.319 I I can answer this easily and quickly. 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:16.639 Okay. 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:18.240 I'm not trained enough to answer that. 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:20.800 I couldn't, beyond a shadow of a doubt, prove that to you. 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:21.120 Okay. 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:22.959 I know. 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:34.000 So when somebody is telling you like Jesus spoke to me, are you thinking that Jesus really spoke to them, or are you more thinking that they're like hallucinating or like in a psychosis? 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:39.040 That would that would to me just be a a trigger for me to think it's a mental health episode. 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:39.439 Okay. 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:39.680 Yeah. 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:48.560 And I think that's kind of like what a lot of, I don't want to say a lot of us, but a lot of people are like, oh, that seems yeah, like not normal or whatever. 00:07:48.800 --> 00:08:00.959 So I don't, I feel like there's so many different cases like that where, and not even just like Saul God or whatever, people could spin it to the paranormal too and think that they're not mentally well either. 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:08.480 I feel like that's one a lot of times, um, and I don't know where in the paranormal you're going with this, but in the case of I'm not going paranormal. 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:09.600 Okay. 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:12.079 In the case of alien abduction stories, right? 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:19.759

Like I feel like many of them that I hear about sound more like a mental health crisis than a true abduction. 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:20.160 Yeah. 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:24.959 It's just one of those things where I don't know why it always so anyway, this just kind of came to me. 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:30.000 So I I know it's not typical, but it still could be tied into all the other things that we talk about. 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:36.720 So anyway, okay, people have obviously been asking this for centuries, and the answer kind of depends on entirely who you ask. 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:43.679 So a psychiatrist looks at hallucinate hallucinations, delusions, like sleep patterns, and overall behavior. 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:44.159 Okay. 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:58.240 But maybe like a religious leader would ask whether the experience aligns with faith and leads to compassion or healing, where a paranormal investigator probably wonders if there's an entirely different explanation, right? 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:04.399 So the uncomfortable reality is that from the outside they can look remarkably similar. 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:05.120 Yes. 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:09.759 So could there be experiences that science like doesn't fully understand yet? 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:10.960 Maybe, obviously. 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:12.960 Like we're already okay. 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.480 So here's that was kind of my disclaimer or question. 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:17.600 Okay, are you ready? 00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:18.639 I am ready. 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:20.720 Imagine waking up tomorrow. 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:21.840 I would like to. 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:30.159 You feel incredible, not sick, you're just like enlightened, you're just feeling the greatest you've ever felt. 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:34.480 You feel like you've finally figured out a secret that everyone else has missed. 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:42.480 Okay, so you make your coffee, the TV news anchor looks at the camera, and you know that they're speaking directly to you. 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:42.879 Okay. 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:44.879 This sounds like mania. 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:56.559 On your commute, every license plate has the same number, every billboard holds a hidden meaning, and every song on the radio has written was like written specifically about your life, okay? 00:09:56.879 --> 00:09:57.039 Okay. 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:02.240 A stranger smiles at you and it's not politeness, it's a sign, Zachary. 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:10.639 And by the end of the day, you are absolutely convinced that God has chosen you for a divine mission. 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:14.960 And you don't just hope it's true, you know it is. 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:21.840 When your family asks if you're okay, you tell them they're the ones who are blind to the truth. 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:22.159 Oh. 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:30.960 So psychosis is a symptom and it's not a standalone diagnosis, which I don't know if a lot of people actually know that. 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:35.679 Yeah, because it would be like how the actual illness is like showing. 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:41.759 Yeah, if you think of a fever, that's what tells you something's wrong, but it doesn't tell you why. 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:42.240 Right. 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:45.919 It doesn't tell you like what parasite in your body is what's causing it. 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:47.600 To put it in Michigan terms, right? 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:50.320 Parasite in your body is making you have explosive diarrhea. 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:51.919 Yeah, now apparently it's eggs. 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:52.399 Oh gosh. 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:54.240 So does lettuce. 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:55.279 Yeah, now it's eggs. 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:56.240 That's what I heard. 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:56.559 I don't know. 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:58.080 Okay, so it can be psychosis. 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:08.639 Yeah, so it can be triggered like by schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, major depression, brain injuries, substance abuse, or even extreme sleep deprivation. 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:18.399 So ultimately, it means something has interpreted the brain's ability to um accurately the ability to accurately interpret reality. 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:18.960 Yes. 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:19.279 Okay. 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:23.039 Okay, so we usually break this down into a couple distinct things. 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:27.679 So hallucinations, which you know are sensory experiences that feel entirely real. 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:33.440 So hearing voices, seeing things that aren't there, feeling or being touched or something near you. 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:34.559 Delusions. 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:41.360 So those are like fixed, unshakable beliefs maintained despite uh overwhelming evidence to the contrary. 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:52.399 And someone might believe they are being watched, like we hear a lot of people say, like the government implanted a chip in them, or like you were just saying, like alien abductions, like their phone got hacked. 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:53.440 Yeah, yes. 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:56.399 Or they're mayor've been chosen by a higher power. 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:04.000 And so religious psychosis occurs when these hallucinations or delusions revolve around obviously spiritual themes. 00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:06.320 And I feel like that we just like hear that a lot. 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:06.960 I don't know. 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:11.279 It's either the the feds are after me or God talked to me. 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:12.879 So it'd be like the top two. 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:13.519 Yes. 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:13.919 Okay. 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:20.559 So yeah, someone might believe that they are receiving direct commands from God or that they are a prophet or an angel or the messiah. 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:24.480 Every coincidence becomes that divine experience. 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:30.639 And interestingly,

psychosis usually reflects a person's existing world. 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:31.039 Okay. 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:37.759 So the brain doesn't just like kind of randomly tell stories, it pulls from familiar, deeper, meaningful concepts. 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:43.519 So, like religion, family, politics, or personal feels, which just fears, which makes sense to what you just said. 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:43.840 Yeah. 00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:45.840 It's not like a whole brand new idea. 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:48.480 It's something, some some structure they've already had. 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:48.960 Right. 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:50.639 Which does make sense. 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:55.360 But like when I was doing that, I was like, wow, I guess I've never thought about it really that way. 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:58.960 Which also kind of helps you show how internal it is. 00:12:59.200 --> 00:12:59.679 Correct. 00:12:59.919 --> 00:13:05.200 And more of a happening to the individual instead of happening objectively outside. 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:05.759 Right. 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:15.759 So then that kind of raises like that uncomfortable question of like, how do doctors differentiate between a profound religious experience and clinical psychosis? 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:22.559 I mean, even on a smaller level, between I saw a ghost and I have a brain tumor. 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:24.080 That's what I'm saying. 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:30.799 And I didn't bring any really paranormal into this because I feel like we talk about that a lot, but this is that same thing. 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:37.679 And it's like, it's one of those things where I was like, holy crap, because you and I are like, we believe paranormal, we believe paranormal, right? 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:42.480 But like other people are probably like, these two have a mental issue. 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:46.480 They think that they're seeing and hearing spirits and Eloise all the time. 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:47.440 Like, what's wrong with them? 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:47.759 Right. 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:50.799 But like your husband's probably the first to think that. 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:56.240 I know, but then here we are, here we are, this exact same thing. 00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:56.879 Right. 00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:58.720 And we're projecting it onto something else. 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:01.759 We're not believing necessarily what they're saying. 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:06.159 And I know it's not the exact same thing, but but it's close enough. 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:09.440 It's one of those things where I feel like we're kind of hypocrites. 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.559 I mean, everybody is in some sort of way, but like you get what I mean. 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.360 That's always like this is so mind-blowing to me. 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:16.480 Cause I'm like, what? 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:18.399 My eyes already twitching. 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:19.120 I know. 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:19.919 Sorry. 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:25.039 So is the belief like shared by others in their faith community? 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:28.000 Is it causing severe distress or isolation? 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:33.440 Has the person stopped eating, sleeping, or like, you know, are they it's not functioning correctly? 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:37.519 Are they acting on commands that put themselves in others in danger? 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:41.200 So, like these are all different questions that you know you would ask. 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:42.080 Right. 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:56.960 So the intersection of environment and psychology is peacefully illustrated by one of the strangest phenomenons that I've ever heard in psychiatric literature is the Jerusalem syndrome. 00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:58.320 Have you ever heard of this? 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:00.240 Uh you probably have. 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:06.080 I feel like I I have I couldn't give you a definition, but it's like it sounds familiar enough to me that I've run across it. 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:06.720 Okay. 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:12.879 Every year, millions of pilgrims travel to Jerusalem for a spiritual renewal. 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:13.360 Okay. 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:17.759 But a handful of visitors experience something entirely different. 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:26.879 They become overwhelmed by the city's intense historical and religious significance and suddenly step into what they believe is a biblical reality. 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:27.440 Okay. 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:30.080 So this is people like on pilgrimage to Mecca. 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:30.639 Yeah. 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:35.600 But like, is that that much different to the stories that we hear though? 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:45.120 When people are like, I drove down a random street and time warped into like a town from you get what I mean? 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:46.080 Like hold on. 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:47.679 Here's here's the question I'll ask. 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:49.919 When they leave Jerusalem, here, I'll keep reading. 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:51.519 Does the phenomenon end? 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:52.320 It depends. 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:55.440 I know it would be time slippy to me, but if not. 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:56.399 Not yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:56.639 Okay. 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:56.879 Okay. 00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:02.399 So hospital staff in the city has documented these remarkably consistent behaviors for decades. 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:07.200 So tourists separate themselves from their groups and obviously cleanse themselves. 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:11.919 They drape themselves in white hotel sheets to mimic biblical robes. 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:18.720 They preach to strangers in the streets or attempt public bat uh attempt public baptisms in fountains. 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:21.600 So this is things that have happened over and over again. 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:22.000 Yeah. 00:16:22.159 -->

00:16:25.120 Like those specific things, which is just kind of wild. 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:29.120 I I don't know why it's funny to me, but like the sheets being consistent, right? 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:30.080 I can see that they had to be able to do that. 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:30.720 That's what I'm saying. 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:33.279 We're all using the sheets. 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:35.360 But they just steal the sheets. 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:50.159 Um, so in 1969, an Australian turret tourist arrived convinced he was the biblical figure, Samson, attempting to move the massive stones of the western wall before police intervened. 00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:52.000 How many stones did he move? 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:53.279 I don't think he moved anyway. 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.600 Because if stones were moved, I think that would help. 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:56.159 Okay. 00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:03.679 So another visitor believed he was John the Baptist preaching uh repentance in the surrounding wilderness. 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:05.119 Those are just a couple. 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:10.720 Experts still debate whether Jerusalem syndrome is its own unique condition. 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:25.279 Most psychiatrists agree the city itself doesn't create the quote unquote illness, rather, it acts as a spark, shaping the symptoms of individuals who are already vulnerable to psychosis. 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:38.079 But it's like, I don't you think that's strange that hundreds and whatever people get there, quote unquote normal or okay until they get there, and then like something switches. 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:44.640 Like I understand that that can happen to anybody at any moment where you just go through a break, you know what I mean? 00:17:44.799 --> 00:18:22.919 Or um but for so many people to have the exact same break and be like, I just find it hard to believe. 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:41.079 And I guess I could we could look up a statistic if we really want to, like how many people out of so many go experience like psychosis or something like that, to be able to break it down to be like that many people visit Jerusalem and that many people end up triggering their psych like do you get what I mean? 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:49.879 Yeah, so one of the things you'd have to look at, right, is is it the location itself or is it a heightened state of excitement, right? 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:54.839 So then when you're looking at that study, you would also have to look at where yeah other people are triggered. 00:18:54.919 --> 00:19:04.119 Because is it the location itself or is it the ginormous chemical reaction going on in your head when you're seeing that kind of place? 00:19:04.439 --> 00:19:04.839 Right. 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:07.799 That's why it's so interesting to me. 00:19:07.959 --> 00:19:09.719 Because I'm like, what is going on? 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:13.639 Okay, so anyway, uh, why does the mind do this? 00:19:13.879 --> 00:19:17.799 So our brains are weird, but they're also not yes. 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:23.959 I meant to say they're wired to recognize patterns to help us navigate life, but they're also weird. 00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:34.919 So, however, during psychosis though, the system mispires in a process like in the process researchers call aberrant salence. 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:36.919 I'm totally butchering that. 00:19:37.399 --> 00:19:37.879 Salient. 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:38.679 Salience. 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:42.039 Abernant, oh my god, aberrant salien. 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:44.199 So thank you. 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:46.599 A A B E R R A N T. 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:49.879 Uh Aberrant Salience. 00:19:50.199 --> 00:19:51.079 Okay, well Okay. 00:19:51.159 --> 00:19:52.439 I thought I was correcting you, but no. 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:57.319 Okay, so essentially, though, let's just we'll do break it down for us, dum-dums. 00:19:57.719 --> 00:20:03.000 The brain begins assigning enormous, urgent importance to completely ordinary things. 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.319 So a passing comment, a random number, a bird landing nearby, right? 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:17.480 It's as if the brain is consistently shouting, pay attention, this matters, which does make sense because in that, you know, that that's what you're like, oh my God. 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:24.439 And then you get, I don't know, like excited and overstimulated and like but and the brain does this at other times too on a smaller level. 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:24.759 Right. 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:26.759 Think about grief, for instance. 00:20:26.919 --> 00:20:27.319 Yeah. 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:33.719 You start to look for extraordinary signs in common everyday things. 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:34.759 Yeah, yeah. 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:42.839 So essentially the brain does this to make sense of like these intense feelings, the mind constructs a delusion to contact con to connect the dots. 00:20:42.919 --> 00:20:44.839 So kind of like exactly what you were just saying. 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:54.839 So when it's misfiring and getting these triggers of like, pay attention, look at this, then it starts connecting the dots to all of these really insignificant things that then seem huge. 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:56.919 Yeah, that pr then produce your reality. 00:20:57.240 --> 00:20:57.480 Right. 00:20:57.719 --> 00:21:10.599 So while the vast majority of people experiencing psychosis are completely nonviolent and are actually far more likely to be victims of harm than to be like actually doing the harm or whatever. 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:10.919 Yeah. 00:21:11.159 --> 00:21:24.439 Delusions can occasionally lead to, you know, catastrophic outcomes when a person becomes uh or believes they are, you know, in danger or they're trying to like execute on their divine command, like something might happen. 00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:28.919 But typically it's that they're probably the ones that are more in danger. 00:21:29.000 -->

00:21:32.759 And that makes sense because they're not clean thinking clearly. 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:51.159 Um, so anyway, I do have a couple specific cases, but we can kind of talk a little bit more about anything else that you thought because I I knew we were gonna have a discussion, so I didn't want to write too much more other than some cases, and they're very quick ones. 00:21:51.319 --> 00:22:05.959 So So you the way you said at the beginning, where other people would think that you know, we're absolutely and I don't like to I probably shouldn't throw the word crazy around, but think that we're not mentally sane because we like to go to haunted places. 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:07.319 Well, you know what I'm saying. 00:22:07.399 --> 00:22:09.159 Like, I'm sure people think that. 00:22:09.399 --> 00:22:09.879 Yeah, yeah. 00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:11.719 So here's the question, though, right? 00:22:11.879 --> 00:22:15.319 Where because what you said is like they go to the city and all of a sudden they come changed. 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:17.559 What about people who go on their first ghost hunt? 00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:17.959 Right. 00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:24.439 And now they're obsessed with that's what I'm saying. 00:22:24.679 --> 00:22:26.439 It's like or paranormal investigating. 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.359 So like you did kind of just do like make my brain flip on. 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:31.399 That's a little bit. 00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:43.399 It's it, I think the the thing is, is your brain is such a survival organ, like it and it will vastly make some jumps to always solidify what you already believe. 00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:44.839 It's always looking for that bias. 00:22:44.919 --> 00:22:51.000 And so it's it's hard for anyone unless I'm you you are a trained psychiatrist or shrink, right? 00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:54.119 To like really be able to pinpoint those things and distinguish. 00:22:54.359 --> 00:23:15.399 But you know, we've talked about this, and I don't remember what episode it was, but I I know that we were talking about schizophrenia or um it was some we were talking we we kind of a little bit talked about It was on the the poltergeist sliding episode I think we were talking about it might have actually been another one, but we were Okay, it doesn't matter. 00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:27.159 The the point is is that I think we've talked about it quite a bit because it's like do we actually think that and I'm not I am not saying that mental illness and diseases and things like that don't exist? 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:32.919 That's not what I'm saying, but you and I have dived into it so much where it's like, do we actually think that it is something? 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.319 Like, do they get closer to the paranormal? 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:36.839 Is it something paranormal? 00:23:36.919 --> 00:23:38.599 Like where is it? 00:23:38.679 --> 00:23:42.119 That's why this like where is Can I Can I help you say it differently? 00:23:42.439 --> 00:23:42.759 Thank you. 00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:52.199 Is schizophrenia really the disorder as we understand it, or are they perceiving something that's happening all around us that we don't have the typical senses to perceive? 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:52.839 Correct. 00:23:52.919 --> 00:23:53.240 Thank you. 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:54.759 That is what I was trying to say. 00:23:54.919 --> 00:23:55.799 You're so amazing. 00:23:56.039 --> 00:24:00.279 And this would be in the form of like people who have like auditory hallucinations. 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:00.759 Yeah, yeah. 00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.839 Auditory hallucinations or visual hallucinations, what we're talking about. 00:24:05.159 --> 00:24:22.439 Yeah, and they're not schizophrenia alone, but I'm just saying, like, yeah, because we've also talked about a lot where it's like, you know, older people when they're close to passing, they they say that they see people or they see their loved ones or whatever, or how we talk about little kids that don't know any better because they don't have that bias. 00:24:22.679 --> 00:24:26.679 Those who are closer to the veil are seeing quote unquote ghosts or spirits, whatever. 00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:36.679 So it's just like it's very interesting when you think about it that way because it's like exactly I also love how far we've come in this journey because we're really careful to whether to say ghosts or spirits, or it's just something we don't understand. 00:24:37.159 --> 00:24:46.919 Because it is such a big mental mind flip throughout all of sure, but that's also why when I started looking, I don't even remember how I found this that you know to come up with this episode. 00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:47.399 Yeah. 00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:57.000 But I was just thinking about it, and it's you said it so perfectly, it's like when somebody goes to a haunted house and we've witnessed it, like where people go and they've never believed. 00:24:57.319 --> 00:24:58.039 We were them. 00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:05.000 Well, I mean, we believe we had uh yeah, but I mean we've for Cliffordity to believe already, but we came out of there going, whoa. 00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:12.919 Yeah, but we've actually worked, you know, events and stuff at LOE's where we've there's been many people, every up, every group we'd be like, Hey, is there any skeptics? 00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:15.799 Yeah, yeah, I don't believe she drugged me here, he made me come. 00:25:15.959 --> 00:25:18.279 And then at the end, they're like, Wow, that's actually wild. 00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:22.519 I can't explain these couple things, or like, how did that do it again? 00:25:22.679 --> 00:25:34.599 Yeah, and so like I understand it because then, and it's not even with this stuff, it's just like, you know how hyper-fixated we get on stuff that we're excited about when we research, we do all this stuff, and then all of a sudden you're like, I really want this car. 00:25:34.679 --> 00:25:38.759 You're

researching and researching and researching, and then out and about you see that car all the time. 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:39.959 You never even saw it before. 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:47.159 And then we take it as a sign. 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:53.559 That's that's the universe telling telling us it's the by that misunderstood unconscious brain for sure. 00:25:53.799 --> 00:26:13.000 But anyway, you get like it's just like, okay, so who's to say that somebody that's like really excited about going, you know, to this retreat and to go, they're like already spiritually invested, and they go to Jerusalem and they see all this, and like, yeah, I could see absolutely I could see the excitement and the fascination, and like you're just thrilled and it pumped in through you. 00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:18.039 I could see it, and where a paradigm shift in your brain might be yeah, triggered, yeah. 00:26:18.199 --> 00:26:21.079 But then it's like, I don't know, I don't know. 00:26:21.159 --> 00:26:22.759 It's just mind-blowing to me. 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:23.959 It is mind blowing. 00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:25.240 Do you have anything else you want? 00:26:25.399 --> 00:26:26.599 No, I want to hear some of the stories. 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.919 Okay, they're not very long, but we can kind of each one we can kind of talk about. 00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:33.159 Okay, so Andrea Yates. 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:40.919 So this case of Andrea Yates is not a story of evil, um, but it's really kind of like a heartbreaking example of severe. 00:26:41.159 --> 00:26:43.879 Are we we're gonna talk about the Andrea Yates? 00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:46.919 Um, literally the smallest little portion. 00:26:47.159 --> 00:26:47.480 Okay. 00:26:47.639 --> 00:26:53.000 It's basically a heartbreaking example of severe untreated postpartum psychosis. 00:26:53.159 --> 00:26:55.639 So I don't know if this is the same as what you were thinking. 00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:56.599 Your face. 00:26:56.839 --> 00:26:59.879 You can give us a little bit more deeper on it if you'd like. 00:27:00.199 --> 00:27:01.079 So yeah, you go first. 00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:10.199 A deeply religious and caring mother of five in Texas, Andrea suffered from profound postpartum depression that escalated into psychotic delusion. 00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:18.119 So she became convinced that Satan was influencing her family and that her children were doomed to damination. 00:27:18.439 --> 00:27:26.039 So believing it was the only way to save their souls, she drowned her five children in the family bathtub in 2001. 00:27:26.199 --> 00:27:37.639 Um, and then following treatment and you know, a realization of what had occurred, she was placed in a psychiatric care rather than prison because it was dubbed a you know, a psychiatric break or whatever. 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:39.240 But that's like, okay. 00:27:39.639 --> 00:27:44.439 What horrifying what happened that you okay? 00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:50.519 So then you go back to like

this stuff stems from beliefs, fear, family raising. 00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:53.240 Like she thought she was saving her children. 00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:53.719 Right. 00:27:53.879 --> 00:28:00.919 And she one by one in the bathtub that Satan was influencing her family, which is so I didn't go into detail. 00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:04.679 This is with these been one that's actually been on my list for a very long time. 00:28:04.919 --> 00:28:07.959 Okay, so then maybe you can cover so dark. 00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:08.839 It is really dark. 00:28:08.919 --> 00:28:10.599 That's I I don't know if I'd want to. 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:14.119 It is, and it's one of those things where it's awful. 00:28:14.439 --> 00:28:18.519 With her receiving the treatment she had, and this is why I've always kind of gone back and forth on it. 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.919 Like, do we wanna her story's so yeah infamous as it is, you know? 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:29.079 Like that's kind of why I didn't deep dive into too much of these, but that one is also just awful. 00:28:29.399 --> 00:28:36.439 But that's one example of like it can be bad, like it can be very horrible and and violent. 00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:42.439 And I think this is one of the few though where the justice system actually did the right thing. 00:28:42.679 --> 00:28:49.959 Yeah, I think it was just because for so many others in in violent situations like this, they the justice goes I I don't know. 00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:50.679 It's hard to say. 00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:51.959 It really is hard to say. 00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:53.879 Um, yeah, okay. 00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:58.279 Um, all right, so then we're gonna go to Pennsylvania. 00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:13.480 A shoemaker named Joseph Kellinger struggled with severe mental illness, reporting that he heard commands from God alongside a floating head named Charlie, who claimed supernatural knowledge. 00:29:13.879 --> 00:29:28.359 Okay, and his complex web of delusions ultimately led him to commit a series of violent crimes alongside his teenage son, illustrating how the entire alternate reality can consume a person's life. 00:29:28.439 --> 00:29:33.000 Because he literally gen, like it consumed him and then to his child. 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:40.039 Or like not to his child, but like he roped his beliefs and things where his child's like, okay, yeah, let's do these crazy things. 00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:54.599 Well, because if it if it becomes so much ingrained in your reality that you believe it's real, you do kind of grow into a position where you can manipulate and influence others by and you you you're not trying to manipulate, you literally think you're doing exactly what needs to be done. 00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:55.879 That's your belief, yeah. 00:29:55.959 --> 00:30:00.359 You're trying to but like a floating head named Charlie. 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:01.719 Where did Right? 00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:06.439 But the at the same time, all our brain is is like a meat sack with electricity running through it. 00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:10.519 It can be just like any other organ in your body that can just go haywire. 00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:11.480 Dreams too. 00:30:11.639 --> 00:30:15.319 Yeah, we have the craziest ass dreams, and I'm like, where did that even come from? 00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:17.399 We could do episodes just on our dreams. 00:30:17.639 --> 00:30:18.279 We should start. 00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:19.959 Well, I never really fully remember them. 00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:24.599 Otherwise, we should start writing them all down, and we should just literally have a full episode of our wacky dreams. 00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:25.879 A dream journal one? 00:30:25.959 --> 00:30:26.519 Oh god. 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:33.559 Um, so people often point to David Korish, the leader of the branch, Davison. 00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:34.599 Oh my god. 00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:36.119 You got this, Carrie. 00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:40.759 I don't, but you know, the leader of the Waco Texas crap. 00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:41.000 Yes. 00:30:41.159 --> 00:30:48.279 So who cla who claimed he could um unlock biblical prophecies and that he was a final prophet? 00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:56.039 Uh, while it remains heavily debated whether he genuinely believed these claims or was knowingly manipulating the follow followers. 00:30:56.359 --> 00:31:09.639 His, you know, that case highlights how charismatic leadership, religious extremism, and potential mental illness can overlap in ways that are incredibly difficult to untangle. 00:31:09.879 --> 00:31:15.399 Um, and so we often hear about the crisis, but we rarely hear about recovery. 00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:21.799 So firsthand accounts from who from the oh my god, we were doing so well. 00:31:22.199 --> 00:31:23.879 Well, you you were doing well. 00:31:23.959 --> 00:31:26.119 I started off with having safety takes to get this. 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:27.559 I was doing so well. 00:31:27.879 --> 00:31:30.439 Okay, so hold on, let me just like pause for a second. 00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:33.159 So, anyway, we all know the Waco Texas one. 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:35.639 I'm we don't even need to deep dive into that. 00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:47.959 Let me let me just do a disclaimer though, because I wanted to say that in each of these cases, as I'm reading them to you, I don't necessarily think that it it I'm not saying that they had a mental illness. 00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:51.879 This is just how the research is, is that these people had the mental illness. 00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:52.839 Do you get what I mean? 00:31:52.919 --> 00:31:54.279 Because like, I don't know. 00:31:54.439 --> 00:31:57.879 I don't know if these people were really seeing things that were real. 00:31:58.119 --> 00:32:07.079 So when I'm saying that they were definitively say, you could say that more than likely it is an illness or a a misfiring of the brain, but yes. 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:13.079 Yeah, I just mean that, like, I guess

I just want to put the disclaimer as I'm reading this, this is because this is what the reach research is saying. 00:32:13.159 --> 00:32:16.279 Like, this person was diagnosed or had this mental illness. 00:32:16.439 --> 00:32:17.079 Does that make sense? 00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:17.480 Gotcha. 00:32:17.719 --> 00:32:17.959 Okay. 00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:21.719 Anyway, okay, so um, but I don't, I guess I don't know. 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:25.480 Do you think that he was just fully fronting? 00:32:25.879 --> 00:32:32.199 Do you do you think a lot of cult leaders and leaders like this fully believe in what they're or do you think it just depends? 00:32:32.439 --> 00:32:39.000 I I think it it's an off-topic ramp, but narcissism and gaslighting and and master manipulation. 00:32:39.159 --> 00:32:42.359 I don't feel I think the power feeds them. 00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:50.279 I maybe it becomes self-fulfilling where they they've tricked themselves into believing it as they go, but I I don't I don't know if it starts that way. 00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:51.559 I don't know either. 00:32:51.719 --> 00:32:53.559 I guess it just depends on the person's personal belief. 00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:54.199 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:54.599 Yeah. 00:32:54.839 --> 00:33:03.559 Um, okay, so like I was trying to say a minute ago, we we kind of often hear about the crisis, but we rarely hear about the recovery. 00:33:03.799 --> 00:33:16.919 So, firsthand accounts from those who have recovered from religious psychosis describe the experience as waking up from a dream that felt more real than reality itself, which is so I don't know why that's so scary to me. 00:33:17.399 --> 00:33:27.879 Um, well, I do know why, but one woman recalled staying awake for days and refusing food because she thought sleeping would cause her to miss God's instructions. 00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:33.079 And after treatment, she couldn't believe how convincing it all had been to her. 00:33:33.399 --> 00:33:40.679 Because imagine if we did remember our dreams fully and they felt just as real after you woke up. 00:33:40.919 --> 00:33:59.079 Well, okay, actually, I know we talked about this a little bit where I had to go get crystals and load up and stuff for my girl Cynthia because my dreams were bleeding into my reality, and it was getting so scary because I was like remembering conversations, buying clothes, doing certain things. 00:33:59.159 --> 00:34:06.039 Like there was one time where I thought I wrote a whole episode for the podcast because I dreamt I sat down and wrote this whole like weird thing. 00:34:06.199 --> 00:34:09.159 So yeah, like I that's it is so scary to me. 00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:13.480 So obviously the recovery brings like a unique emotional hurdle, right? 00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:19.159 Because you're kind of grieving something that you once believed or thought you had, or you know, right was your everything. 00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:30.679 So you obviously have that like profound sense of loss that comes with realizing you weren't like chosen by God, but that it was just your brain misfiring, which that's gotta be really hard. 00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:31.240 Absolutely. 00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:38.360 So really think that you were like this the PTSD and guilt that must come from that, right? 00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:43.000 And couple that with the fear that it could happen again. 00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:43.480 Right. 00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:44.440 Oh my god. 00:34:44.759 --> 00:34:48.519 So fortunately though, psychosis is highly treatable. 00:34:48.759 --> 00:34:54.039 Obviously, it can be through therapy, sometimes medication, support networks, things like that. 00:34:54.119 --> 00:35:00.360 So it's not something that can't be treated, it just kind of depends on, you know, the level of the right people in the right places. 00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:00.679 Yeah. 00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:14.279 Um, so obviously, if someone you love, you know, begins kind of displaying any signs or anything like that, experts recommend just kind of staying calm, listening without validating or arguing against their delusion. 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:23.719 So don't try to pretend like you know what they're talking about and validate it, but also don't argue with it because you know that's not that's not gonna do anything. 00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:27.960 Either way could be a catastrophe, uh validating or arguing. 00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:28.839 I don't even know. 00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:33.159 Basically, you know, just encourage a professional evaluation, which I understand is hard. 00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:38.360 Obviously, there's like an immediate safety risk, then treat it as a medical emergency. 00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:38.839 Right. 00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:45.159 And like as a paranormal podcast, we spend a lot of time talking about ghosts, demons, possessions, and all that kind of stuff. 00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:49.880 And we kind of, you know, most of the time we're always talking about what if. 00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:56.759 So this episode is kind of like a reminder that sometimes the most important question isn't like, is it paranormal? 00:35:56.920 --> 00:35:59.319 It is is that person okay? 00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:03.319 Or or you know, is it a crisis? 00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:04.759 You know, I don't know. 00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:14.199 It's just I don't know if the priority is proving or disproving the supernatural, or is it just like making sure we all get home safe? 00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:15.239 I don't know. 00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:18.119 There's too many mysteries in this world. 00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:19.799 It's one of those things, right? 00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:32.199 Where like if you're gonna live in the world of a high strange and and being more open and receptive to ideas, I think at the same time it's important to make sure you know the signs of what to look for in case somebody is having an episode. 00:36:32.279 --> 00:36:34.759 And

whether you live in the high strange or not, it's always important, right? 00:36:34.839 --> 00:36:45.799 And I think you make an important claim there of don't agree, don't egg them on, but make sure that you get somebody who can handle that situation to interview because we can't always. 00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:46.279 Yeah. 00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:49.480 A lot of these stories when you're telling me it remind me of two. 00:36:49.799 --> 00:36:57.079 Have you ever heard uh there's a really in-depth Netflix documentary on them too, but Chad and Lori Daybell. 00:36:57.319 --> 00:36:59.639 That vaguely sounds familiar, but I don't know. 00:36:59.960 --> 00:37:04.199 Lori, and I want to say it was later in life, joined the Church of Latter-day Saints. 00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:09.559 Okay, and she meets Chad Daybell, who is decently popular within the church. 00:37:09.799 --> 00:37:13.319 And he wrote a bunch of books about like demons being among us, right? 00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:32.440 And that she kind of gets this whole delusion of she needs to be a warrior for God to get rid of these demons hiding as humans, and they come up with a whole leveling system of like a labeling by level of people, like they're this level demon, that level demon. 00:37:32.679 --> 00:37:33.559 No, I've never heard of this. 00:37:33.639 --> 00:37:34.039 Oh my god. 00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:43.319 Like Andrea believes that her own children were actually demons, and it it it's not a great ending. 00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:46.759 If you there I can't think of the name of the documentary on Netflix. 00:37:46.839 --> 00:37:47.960 Um, I should look it up. 00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:49.480 Let me, I'm gonna do that real quick. 00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:54.519 It is really great though, because I think it talks about a lot of these kind of points you're making. 00:37:54.839 --> 00:38:04.279 Yeah, I mean, like, I I guess I just it's so hard too because like I feel like you and I have been in scenarios with people where we're like somebody should do something. 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:06.759 And it's called Sins of Our Mother. 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:08.119 Sins of Our Mother. 00:38:08.279 --> 00:38:10.360 Oh sounds scary. 00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:13.480 It's a dark one for sure, but it's interesting. 00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:16.039 Well, that's really all I have. 00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:21.319 I it's just I know that that was like Did you find any more stories by chance? 00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:27.480 Or were I'm sure they were just probably short, but of the actual happenings in Jerusalem on this. 00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:29.639 I want to know more about the hotel sheets. 00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:32.759 I didn't find anything else about the hotel sheets. 00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:44.759 Do you think they probably have to they probably have to order so many extra hotel sheets just to have probably I want to know like how many, I want to know how many sheets that they've lost. 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:48.519 At least a couple hundred from the sounds of it at the beginning of the episode. 00:38:48.679 --> 00:38:49.079 I know. 00:38:49.319 --> 00:38:50.839 This one's an interesting one though. 00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:52.119 It's a thinker, right? 00:38:52.279 --> 00:38:57.239 Because it I think no matter what your beliefs are, we've all been duped into something. 00:38:57.319 --> 00:39:00.679 We've all had parts of our reality that weren't real. 00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:02.839 We've thought they'd become real. 00:39:03.239 --> 00:39:14.759 And I think it kind of helps to know, like, while we we might call some of these people, like you know, Andrea Yeas is called the monster a lot, or like we're all not far off from being in the same boat. 00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:21.799 No, and also like I this episode isn't necessarily about religion at all. 00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:22.920 Like, do you get what I mean? 00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:26.759 Like, I'm not trying to like No, this is more about how the brain works. 00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:27.239 Correct. 00:39:27.319 --> 00:39:29.960 And everybody believe in whatever you want to believe in. 00:39:30.759 --> 00:39:31.799 That's fine. 00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:42.279 That's not really, but it's just like it's interesting to me that a lot of the times it is like religious psychosis and things like that that we hear about. 00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:59.000 That's what's kind of interesting to me because I understand it's like what your so if your brain, right, is the organ that's designed to keep you alive, and it it's right, it or fight or flight or somewhere in the middle of it. 00:39:59.319 --> 00:40:03.960 And if it's always it's wonders to either keep you from death, right? 00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.279 It's biggest thing is to keep you away from death. 00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:19.159 So the human construct or the and I could be wrong, the absolute truth of religion, yeah, of what comes after death, you can see where when the brain is misfiring why it could go to religion. 00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:21.319 So it's not that religion is the cause of it. 00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:22.519 Right, right, right, right. 00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:28.199 It's more a it's tied to the natural act of the brain. 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:28.679 Right. 00:40:28.839 --> 00:40:42.759 And that's why when I was saying earlier, like it seems obvious, but then it doesn't, because I've never thought about it, is that when you go into psychosis, it's not like new concepts, it's concepts that you've it's the frameworks yeah. 00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:43.880 So that makes sense. 00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:47.719 Like if we go into psychosis, we'd probably see ghosts everywhere. 00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:48.759 Absolutely. 00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:51.880 So I don't know, it's just so interesting to me. 00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:55.799 It it seems like confirmation by us just comes and plays a huge part in it. 00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:58.920 Yeah, this is a this is an interesting

conversation. 00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:14.199 I know, see, and I could have really, really put so much more in, but I was like, I don't, I want it, I I wanted us to kind of talk more about it because it was just getting my brain like so not worked up, but kind of like worked out because I'm like, what is going on? 00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:15.000 Like what? 00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:30.279 Yeah, because you you think it's like one it can relate out to so many other things, but the brains and then it like it just gets into the whole thing, even when I was studying psychology in school, like the study of the brain is the brain studying the study of the brain, yes, which is correct. 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:31.239 That's so crazy. 00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:32.039 You know what's funny? 00:41:32.119 --> 00:41:38.360 Okay, so I I wrote this up, so right researched this episode, I wrote it, and then I actually was gonna scrap it because I'm like, no, it's I'm glad you didn't. 00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:41.480 No, I know, and I am too, because I'm kind of like, no, this isn't. 00:41:41.639 --> 00:41:47.639 And I'm like, no, it's been like just kind of on my brain for I'm like, I want to get it out of my good one. 00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:50.199 All right, well, I feel like I'm gonna think on this one for a while. 00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:51.799 I'm gonna call you at like two in the morning. 00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:52.920 Don't worry, I'll have more thoughts. 00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:53.319 Good. 00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:54.440 I want everyone to have thoughts. 00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:56.519 Leave comments and perfect, nice things. 00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:58.039 Let us know your thoughts. 00:41:58.279 --> 00:41:58.839 Write-ins. 00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:03.400 What do we have a emoji that would go for this episode? 00:42:03.639 --> 00:42:04.199 I don't know. 00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:05.079 The brain. 00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:06.839 Oh, actually, that's the perfect one. 00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:07.480 There we go. 00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:08.519 We'll do the brain. 00:42:08.759 --> 00:42:14.599 Um, and then do we have any special treats for our Patreon folks tonight? 00:42:14.759 --> 00:42:15.639 We do perfect. 00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:18.199 So we'll have our bonus episode going up. 00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:21.239 We'll have, yep, some little couple Reddit stories. 00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:21.960 Perfect. 00:42:22.279 --> 00:42:23.639 Well, thank you, Kara. 00:42:23.799 --> 00:42:24.839 Thank you, everybody. 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:27.880 Uh appreciate you sticking around after our news at the beginning here. 00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:31.639 We might be a little bit less, but we're we're gonna have some more fun conversations instead. 00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:36.440 We still have a Patreon with bonus episodes or yeah, bonus episodes and content. 00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:37.880 And I bonus content. 00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:43.000 I will promise I'm getting back to it, and now with more time, I can put more time into that. 00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:46.599 So if you're not always already on Patreon, come on over. 00:42:46.759 --> 00:42:48.279 There's also free tier. 00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:50.519 We'd love to have more free tiers. 00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:53.799 You can get tarot readings from Zachary and all kinds of stuff. 00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:56.199 So you don't have to be a paid subscriber. 00:42:56.360 --> 00:42:57.639 I want to make that very clear. 00:42:57.799 --> 00:43:15.719 You do not have to pay, just come on over, but also write in, give us your stories because that actually that actually is fun for us too, because then we can just sit down and have an episode where we just read your stories, and it's that's fun for us because maybe we'll sneak some of those in those that's what I think we should do. 00:43:15.799 --> 00:43:20.360 If we get more write-ins from you guys, we can just have more episodes. 00:43:20.759 --> 00:43:21.319 Perfect. 00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:22.360 All right, all right. 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:25.000 What else do we need to do to close the shop up for the day? 00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:29.239 Most important thing you can do for us is to creep around my little eyeballs. 00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:30.839 Goodbye.