النص الكامل لحلقة Step 3: Unleashing Capacity in Rural Schools — A School Leadership Podcast with Donna Winters

you're going to share your thoughts on your structure because I haven't seen that structure in many schools before and I know how well it works. So just thinking about your role as executive head, what are the key skills do you think about being an executive head in this structure rather than being a head of a single school? Donna Winters: I think for me it's about having that oversight ⁓ and knowing you can be involved in all the aspects of school life and leadership. But it's been a big learning curve to know that you don't need to directly manage it. You don't need to directly control all of it and know everything and manage every decision. For me, it comes down to trusting the team. And that's what we've built, not just at a senior leadership level, but at subject leadership and all different roles, admin, to make sure that they know that think for me it's about having that oversight and knowing ⁓ you be involved in all the aspects of school life and leadership. But it's a big learning curve to know that you don't need to directly manage it. You don't need to directly control all of it and know everything and manage every decision. For me, it down to trusting the team. And that's what we've not just at a senior leadership level, but at subject leadership and different roles, I've got confidence in their decision making and as them as a team and that then I know that they come to me with we've done this or this has happened and we can talk about it and yes obviously there might be days when you have to make the ultimate decision but actually they are all experts in their field so for me that trust. calmness, like believing that we know our federation well and what is right for us. So being a double RI school and Noctum was an RI as well, we got a lot of advice, a lot of different voices externally, actually to stop. reflect, know what's right for us, take your time and not knee-jerk has been what I think has also brought our team along with us as well and why they feel listened to. And like I've already said, that realisation as exec head, cannot do it all. You are not. It's not possible and that you have to release that power. And I think one thing that we'd felt from the past was that communication. So making sure that all levels understand who's responsible for what. who to speak to, the processes that are in place that underpin everything, where to get the information from and that I think has been like the things I've learnt to manage as an executive leader. Paul Ainsworth: think we'll talk about those roles and responsibilities a little bit more later on in our conversation. But let's just make it real. I've had the privilege of visiting your three schools in recent years. ⁓ can you just tell us a little bit about those schools and the communities they serve and the sizes of the schools? Because I think that's really interesting. Donna Winters: Yeah, so it's three small rural schools just south of Lincoln between Lincoln and Sleaford and

they are literally within a line as you drive down. So you've got Nocton, which is the smallest, absolutely beautiful Victorian building with all Victorian records and yeah, it's just delightful to be inside, but it's the smallest. So it's grown from 24 pupils. We're now on 43. Only has two classes. So in that you've got preschool reception one and two. class and then three four five six in another class which obviously brings its own challenges but It is such a small family feel. Every child is known by every member of staff and yeah, it's grown so much and it was a requires improvement school, but is now good as for a couple of years now. You then got Dunstan, which is the next mile down the road. Lovely little bridle path links between the two, so often have that walk, which is the larger the school. So I'm 92 again has grown from 65 to 92 of the last few years for class structure as of this year, which is fantastic. reception on their own, one, two, three, four, five, six, which works perfectly. ⁓ And then you've got Digby, which is seven miles down the road, which ⁓ has got 60 pupils, ⁓ three classes, so reception one, two together, three, four, five and six. So actually, whilst each school is slightly different, the structure means our curriculum does match all three. We haven't got a two, three or a four, five, six. It works the curriculum altogether. ⁓ DIGB is slightly different, even though it's only just down the road, it has much higher deprivation ⁓ and actually really struggles with transport links. So it, unlike the others, has a bus that travels around all the local villages and picks the children up at the beginning of the day and takes them back, ⁓ which brings its own challenges because a lot of the children then can't attend clubs or do any extra things. So that's why we have our tagline of opening doors, minds. So for us, we have to make sure our rural schools, we widen them to the wider world. opportunities. For many they haven't even been to Lincoln so that's where our curriculum starts in the local and then builds out to that local and national and international. So that's our three schools so similar but very different. Paul Ainsworth: They are a delight to visit and I think it was only just before Christmas when I came and visited Digby and had a little walk around. So the executive model I think has been around for a number of years and you've been executive head for is it four or five years now? Donna Winters: No just ⁓ this is my third, no third joining into fourth year so yeah. Paul Ainsworth: How is it in your third, fourth year? Can you explain a little bit how the model arose and also the various journeys it's been through? Because I know it wasn't like this when you kind of first took over this executive headship role. So tell us a little bit about how the model was implemented and how it's changed over time. Donna Winters: Yeah, so the federation is... changed dramatically over the years. So it started with just

being Digby and Dunstan ⁓ and I was a base leader at that point so I think I got half a day release just to simply check the place was ticking over and that's kind of evolved to eventually where we had a deputy head in each of the schools, an executive head teacher across the three, ⁓ one of the deputies left so then I took over deputy of two of the schools ⁓ so then I was Digby and Noctam which we found suddenly bought those two schools closer together because whilst it worked and the Federation was improving, you still had that very much, this is my school culture from the deputies and they would go off on their own tangents or do their own things and be quite protective. So the decision was then made to restructure. then we then kept the executive head teacher, but then created the Federation deputy head teacher, which was then across all three schools. having that oversight of all three, just like the head teacher. And then we then needed the third member of the team and that's where the senior federation lead came in, which is then a part-time role due to finances in many ways with being small schools. But then amalgamating that with the Senco role means that actually, again, they're across all three. So it makes it manageable, financially viable, but you've got three people that can then have oversight of all three schools. And it's just meant that our parents, our staff, know they can go to any one of us if they need to speak to us. We do have systems in place, know, like for staff absence or if it's a particular query there's certain people they need to go to but actually we know all of our children, all of our staff, all of our schools. So that is the structure we have in place now and I wouldn't change it. Paul Ainsworth: So let's return to those nine steps for executive headship and that step three of unleashing the capacity of your team. When you stepped into that executive headship, how did you, how would you or how do you resist the temptation just to replicate leadership posts across sites? I'm sure there would be lots of people that would have took on your role and said, okay, I'm executive head. I'll have three heads of school and I will oversee them. But you've got that very different model. So why did you choose to do that? Donna Winters: think it was just felt was needed a change. You could, those after so many years of being in the Federation, you could feel still that culture of my school and the Federation not necessarily pulling together. And they were in many ways, but there was still that individual camp feeling, if you like. So it was felt we needed the change. So I think myself having the deputy role over two schools was when that change was really felt to begin with, because when you suddenly could see it pulling those two schools together and more opportunities. that was the starting point I think and that that led to the then led to the restructure and I think from that it then meant we could play with the strengths

⁓ of each leader so then it was then thinking about okay well if we're going to be across the three what backgrounds have people got so for example the Senco had a background also in like the well-being and the nurture and behaviour aspects and had an interest in that, whereas the deputy who has a real passion and a strength in curriculum, it meant that we could make that role flourish because she could do that across the three schools rather than just focusing on maybe just her own curriculum area, she was curriculum in a wider sense. that's, yeah, for us it was getting those roles and responsibilities right at the start and really knowing who who had the strengths in different areas, who had interests and then setting those in place. Paul Ainsworth: Let's just talk a little bit about those roles and responsibilities then. What kind of sits with you as executive head? What are those kind of tasks that you do? And then let's talk a little bit about your trust deputy. What are the key things that you do in your role? Donna Winters: If it's this week, everything? No. So for me, it's one of the tricky things is trying to keep that strategic overview. So, but... Everybody else is involved in that as well in many ways. So it's that school development plan, the self-evaluation form. For me, the communication with the governing body. So making sure that they are monitoring when we need them to and that they're involved. They feel included in decision-making. ⁓ I largely look at the assessment side of things as well. So I've got that oversight. I think that's just my personal, I enjoy that side of things as well. So I've kept that. ⁓ And yeah, for me it's just the oversight of everything, if you like, but then with people feeding that information into me without needing to do it directly myself or make some other decisions. Paul Ainsworth: Then you work quite closely on the finance as well, don't you? That's kind of something that sits with you, doesn't it? Donna Winters: Oh, I don't know how to forget that aspect at the moment, to be honest. So, yeah, I think that was something our school has struggled, our schools have struggled with, is the financial aspect in the past. Just that monitoring and the oversight and being in strategy historically, whereas actually the relationship with my school business manager has been key. And for me, being involved in those day to day decisions, me understanding how the finance system works, like to an in-depth level means that then I have complete faith and trust in those figures and I know what decisions we can make. So actually even a small change this year is like all purchase orders come through myself now rather than it used to be split across the three senior leaders just so I can go well actually I know we've got that much money left in that pot it's an easy way of handling it. So yeah finance has been a quite a large aspect of my role I would say over the last few years but actually to the point where I've had the local authority signposting people. to come and see the relationship I've got with Muscle Business Ange and the processes we've got in place. And we had a very successful audit at the start of this year, which went very well. So that's, thank goodness, one thing ticked off. Paul Ainsworth: Well done and it's really clear when I do spend time with you how those roles and responsibilities are are so well understood by your team. Now to take a double R iSchool and an R iSchool and move them to good in the previous Ofsted incarnation curriculum was such a key part wasn't it and that was something that your Federation Deputy worked really really hard on so could you tell us a little bit about how Emma worked through that that developing that curriculum over those three schools and built that curriculum. Donna Winters: Yeah, so ⁓ it's something again that's been on a very long journey. So it's. I think the curriculum went to a point where it didn't fare so well with one-hour off-steads so we pulled it right back. But one of the main things has been having those subject leaders that are stable, that are experts in their field and then through Emma's role is making sure that we've got consistency with what are the key features within our curriculum. So what are, what do we expect to see in each subject? The planning might look slightly different but actually those key features are there so that then Emma can them, Emma can go between three schools and go okay this is what history looks like on the planning side of things and then can then check that that is what is actually happening on the ground. But a lot of the time those checks are actually done by the subject leader so we have a really clear monitoring evaluation schedule to make sure that every subject leader is getting out with their linked governor that they have as well and then feeding back next steps towards coaching staff and that's been a key feature of the Deputy head as well is the coaching element. for example ⁓ early years has been a real strength in from her background that she's then coached particular members of staff and they've gone from being early years teachers to then graded outstanding in Ofsted. So it was yeah it's that's been a really key feature as well. Paul Ainsworth: How do you do that subject leadership? you have subject leaders in each school or do you have subject leaders across the three schools Donna? Donna Winters: So again, it's very much like our senior leader model. It's across the three schools, which means it's that the capacity is there. So your history lead is just the history lead. Some of them have got two, but generally most of them have got one subject. And it means that then their CPD can be focused. We can get them out to cluster meetings or to national events, which is something that we've tried to do. We've got more people on MPQs or completing MPQs than we've ever had. I think there's only about two teachers that have and yeah so then they

are responsible for their subject but across the three and then it means that when they have their monitoring day they will often do all three schools or they will look at all three schools books or pupil voice and then they can look at where the strengths are and signpost teachers to each other to then look together. But even our staff meetings we had one last night where we bring them together and they sit side by side and they just look at their books and they go okay this is the history unit. What have you done? How have you handled this? Where are your challenges? ⁓ I like your idea what you've done here or and it's just yeah picking up ideas from each other across the three. Paul Ainsworth: It's probably really rare to have somebody who specialises in sand provision as you have. So how does does Shorcenko work across the three schools? Is it it kind of certain days in each school and and kind of picking up that caseload of your EHCPs? Does it work in that way? Donna Winters: Yeah, so she has, she has essentially one and a half to two days per week. ⁓ But she then, ⁓ she will vary that depending on the need of that week. So obviously with parents and with external agencies, you can't always dictate which days that they can be met. So she will vary it, but just make sure that she blocks that time so that it doesn't infiltrate into her senior federation lead time. And then for her, and this came out of such a strength in Ofsted of where it was previously, she has looked really clear that those systems that are in place so that every teacher, every teacher assistant, every parent knows from flow charts where they go to, where they get the information, what they need to do before going to the Senco, where her involvement comes in because her role is not operational. It can't possibly be across three schools so it needs to be really strategic and then she's got really clear support plans of how they work, how EHCs, how interventions work so she's got really clear systems across the three schools that means that then when she for example does her monitoring like next week with her SEN governor who thankfully has got a SEN background which is amazing ⁓ she can then go okay let's have a look at interventions at Digby ⁓ fantastic they're working really well same as not done same as Dunstan or where there are pockets that need support so it's very much like every aspect of our school it's trying to get that consistency across the three. And again she also works really closely with external agencies, so doing the National Senco Award, doing NPQ in behaviour and culture, she's currently doing the NPQ-H, so it's just always outward facing trying to get the most up-to-date thinking. Paul Ainsworth: way of distributing that leadership across your three schools has been so important. What have been the barriers to that? What have been the challenges to kind of get in that model to work? How did you encourage your staff to be history lead across all three schools, for example? Donna Winters: I think. One thing, they've overcome it slightly now, that it's time. I think everybody would say time, but it's how can you possibly have that handle on the other two schools when actually you're not over there on a day-to-day basis? So trying to build in little snippets of time where you can. So for example, staff meetings, everybody bring in their history books one week, or having a staff meeting like we've had this week, which is just key stages together, bring one of every book so that they aren't having to do always dedicated time across getting to every school. They just get to see it on a day to day basis occasionally. And actually it's come through communication and trust that they just talk to each other. You'll note they ⁓ got little WhatsApp groups across key stages and things so they will just go, ⁓ how have you done this? And equally they plan ⁓ across the three. So ⁓ for example, the history lead has planned the key stage two for the whole of the federation for this term on the slides and has a key stage one. teacher who's doing it for Key Stage 1 and then communicating with her. So then it's just that way of trying to make sure you've got that consistency and that you don't have anybody going off rogue and doing their own things. But yeah, again, it's something that's over time. Paul Ainsworth: of your meetings, you kind of have your staff meeting and is that all schools together? And then how do you manage your senior leadership team meetings? How do you kind of organise those over the weeks? Donna Winters: Yes, so staff meetings are all together as needed. Occasionally we do it on teams, but the best one in the world is just... prevents engagement and discussion, which is our team are close, they get on with each other, they're friends. So actually we want them to be able to talk. So we come together, slight downfall as it means, we can't start until four o'clock. So you've got a bit of traveling time, but we've just got used to that, to be honest. So it's just four till five. And we judge it, but again, if there's a lot going on or it's ⁓ parents' evening or Christmas. we don't always have staff meetings and we always give time for assessment week for marking and things like that to make sure well-being of staff. SLT meetings, ⁓ try to do it together face to face when we can, but ⁓ SLT presence in the schools is a big thing. Even if you're not needed, think just being visible where you can is important. So when we can do it, we'll do it on Teams. But we don't always have a formal sit down for two hours. It might be that we there's there's a half an hour here or half an hour there. It gets tricky at times. So ⁓ we have an SLT agenda document running in the background. So it's there for the whole year. Just got the dates and then every week is a standard items of a safeguarding update. update, review of the school development plan and the CEF just to make sure they're up to, check the SCR, see

if there's anything from that side of things and then throughout the course of the week if any of us have got anything that pops up we put it on the agenda so that then that way we're not always pinging emails back and forth and grabbing little conversations. We've got a focus and we can come back to it as well to check if things have been actioned and yeah so that works well I find that you kind of don't have to pester people you can hold things on the agenda. document. Paul Ainsworth: One of the things that can derail executive heads is the relationship with parents and who the parents go to. So you've managed that in a really interesting way and I know that your parents like it. So how do you manage those relationships with the parents across the three schools with your two colleagues? Donna Winters: think for our parents, ⁓ they're happy to talk to me but equally they're happy to talk to the deputy head or the senior federation lead equally. They don't seem, unless something hits the fan, which... touch wood, hasn't, that they don't seem to mind who they speak to and it's, that's worked quite well in the sense that then they've got that trust and they see that they can speak to each of us at different times. ⁓ And I think one thing for parents was a huge thing was communication. And I know a lot of schools will say parents struggle with communication. So we just try to, we've tried as many ways as we can. So making sure the newsletters are regular on time. Dates for your diary for the whole year has been a huge thing, a simple thing. but... giving that at the start of the year, parents absolutely love that and making sure that every time we do parent questionnaires we do a response, so whatever it is they've brought up that we show that we're acting on it and we're listening to it and just being present at events as much as possible. So like for myself, Christmas was very busy, three schools worth of events and I have had people say to me, well as executive head teacher you shouldn't, but actually I may not go to everyone but I try to go to something at least at each of the three schools. because I think it's a small family school that's important. Paul Ainsworth: then are you based in individual schools? So are you based in one of the schools and trust deputy in a different school, et cetera? Donna Winters: No, so we each have, we've got an office space in all the schools and we've out, so for example this week I've been in all three schools. We do have what's called our home school ⁓ and that is more for like absence and things like that so that the staff know who they need to go to to report absence ⁓ and often like the day-to-day bits and pieces. ⁓ your home school be the one that you'll deal with. ⁓ And the school that maybe you've known the best or have historically been there the longest because then the parents have got that confidence and you know how it works. But saying that, we all bounce across all three. So your home school, you

might go up one day that week, but it might be two days the next week. So yeah, it's just fluid. Paul Ainsworth: So you've learned a lot over recent years. What would be your advice to somebody new stepping into executive headship about that hidden capacity in their school, the kind of people, the systems or structures? What are the key things that you've learned around that? Donna Winters: Thanks. ⁓ I think for me was... learning what people's strengths are, ⁓ what's in their backgrounds, like what degree did they do, for example, or what passions have they got. for example, ⁓ our PE lead, he has obviously got a degree in PE, so that was obviously a step, but equally has done a Masters in like philosophical thinking. So actually has been helping some of other teachers with ⁓ the depth of the question in their reading. So it's like playing to people's strengths in that way and just checking what people's passions are. And then also looking where people can support each other. That's one thing we've found is that, for example, we've got a teacher who is incredible ⁓ and getting her to coach and support some of the other teachers, say, for example, on the subject leadership role of the journey she's been through and not always having to rely on SLT. So it's just looking for those what people's hidden talents are and learning them. And I think we're very lucky, I think, because we look after people's well-being and trust them and care for them. Our stability is really good. People, I always say if you join you never leave. So generally people don't go anywhere and actually it means that they've grown over time so you see such a change in people that yeah it's lovely to see them flourish. Paul Ainsworth: That's something that I really notice when I visit your schools. You know, there is a real friendly nature and people smile so much as you as you walk them around. It's always a joy to visit. If we think of a little bit wider, what advice would you give to a new or aspiring executive headteacher? I know you're kind of doing your NPQL and you did a programme with a teaching school last year. So what advice would you give to somebody stepping into the role? Donna Winters: I think one of the biggest things I've had to learn is that you cannot do it all. and it is okay. So for example when Ofsted land you think you should be answering every single question but actually it's okay that the English lead answers or the Senco answers or somebody else that actually you cannot do it all so I think for me that's been ⁓ the biggest learning curve ⁓ and just trust your team believe in them ⁓ let them know that you believe in them because because your team are everything. I've seen so many other leaders. basically broken in many ways because they feel really alone and actually I remember when I came to the teaching school hub with yourself listening to some of the leaders feeling quite lonely and I sat there thinking I don't feel lonely. know like I know I'm not in school today but already my senior leaders have checked in on me wish me good luck for today and I know that the schools are absolutely fine without any being there so it's actually that that team is everything so care for them and they they care. ⁓ back. Paul Ainsworth: ⁓ that's a really good piece of advice, isn't it? Care for your team and they care for you back. And again, that's something that I've always noticed when I visited your schools, how much your senior colleagues and all your colleagues look after you in the way that you look after them. So what are the possible next steps for Spires Federation? What's on the agenda for this year and internet? Donna Winters: So I think that... biggest change for us, ⁓ which has been really strange. Being the school with an RI and a double RI for a long time, were getting everybody come to us, giving us advice. Suddenly, we're now the ones getting out there. We're being asked by Teaching School Hub, by the local authority, by some trusts to support other schools. So actually, it's been a bit more of a consultancy role for us. So from my side, I'm a ⁓ mentor for another head teacher. ⁓ supporting a couple of other head teachers as well, ⁓ particularly from the side of the structures, the roles, responsibilities, ⁓ financial management ⁓ and just how to cope. ⁓ But we're equally, we're supporting a number of other small schools with their curriculum, ⁓ early years. ⁓ and SEN side of things. So for us, it's that next step of how do we keep that going, but equally keep that manageable because we have still got three schools and three schools is very busy. And how do we kind of formalise that kind of structure of supporting others whilst also making sure that the wheels don't fall off our end. So, yeah, it's an exciting time, though, to be asked. Paul Ainsworth: It's great to hear that you're supporting the system and I know those schools that you're working with will benefit so much from your advice. I know you're really busy, Donna, so thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on step three, the nine steps to executive headship unleashing the capacity of your team. It's something that you've done amazingly well and I'm really grateful for your time this morning. Donna Winters: No, thank you very much. enjoyed it. Thank you.