النص الكامل لحلقة Following curiosity with Dr. Keshe Chow

medicine. 37 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.680 I love that way to make that work for you 38 00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:05.439 and to put yourself into the beats position to get 39 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:12.800 that one day. I've always had a pet since, perfect fit, exactly, wonderful. 40 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:17.960 So you aspired to become a veterinarian, you pursued that 41 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:23.400 goal after graduation, you took a path to specialization. So 42 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:27.479 I'm curious as to how that played out, What was 43 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.520 that thought process and what did that look like for you. 44 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:34.400 Well, I ended up when I was in school taking 45 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:37.759 on a job as a cattery hand at. 46 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:38.719 My local vetom clinic. 47 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:41.199 And prior to that, like I said, I'd never had 48 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.919 a pet, cat or dog, but I had really had 49 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:48.199 very little interaction with cats at all, so I did 50 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:50.439 not consider myself a cat person at all. I thought 51 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:52.840 I was a dog person. And when I started this 52 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:56.680 cattery job, I was very handling cats. I would have 53 00:02:56.759 --> 00:02:59.360 to be regularly bailed out and I'd be like, come 54 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.560 and save Can you come and get this cat out 55 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:03.319 from under this band or can. 56 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:04.639 You like get it out of the cage, or can 57 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.080 you like come and help me change the lit tree? 58 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:09.560 And then eventually they're like he should just going to 59 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:13.159 have to learn to do yourself. So after like a 60 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:15.400 few months, I just had to learn to do it. 61 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:18.479 And over a few years that I worked at their category, 62 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:21.680 I ended up becoming really really good at cat handling. 63 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:25.199 So by the time I graduated and started working in smaller, 64 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:28.439 more practice, I was like the cat vispr. So when 65 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:31.319 I started working in a sort of small animal clinic. 66 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:33.159 Everyone was always like, oh, I get keys, She's really 67 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:35.360 good at handling cats. So in that time I developed 68 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:37.520 really good cat handling skills. It was like this, you know, 69 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:40.560 baptism by fire, almost And I did a couple of 70 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:44.639 years just in general practice and I did enjoy it. 71 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:47.560 But I ended up working overseas, so I went over 72 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:50.199 to the UK to do some local work. And when 73 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:52.680 you go to the UK, as opposed to Australia, they 74 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.919 have a lot more exotic little creatures than we have 75 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:58.120 in Australia. They have a lot of little rodents that 76 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:00.560 we are not allowed to keep this pets. So I 77 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.280 went over to do this like this work as a 78 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:06.039 locom in the UK, and I was sort of thrown 79 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:08.879 into these situations where I was sole charged in these 80 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:11.199 clinics and having to see all these exobic pets that 81 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:14.319 I didn't really know how to deal with. And so 82 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.519 I just remember this one time, and I was already 83 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:18.839 sort of starting to think, you know, maybe I should 84 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.439 specialize in feline medicine. But I remember this one particular 85 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:25.680 day where I was told I would have to go 86 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.800 and see a gerbil and I did not even know 87 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:32.360 what a gerbil was supposed to look like like. 88 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:35.199 I was just like, I had to google it. I 89 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:37.120 was like, what does a gerbil look like? So I 90 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:37.920 googled it. 91 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:41.079 And I just sort of fumbled my way through this console, 92 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:42.800 and I think I remember coming out of that and 93 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:44.759 I was like, I can't do this. 94 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:45.399 I can't do this. 95 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:47.879 Like, I know, some people really good at being like 96 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.040 Jacksonville Trades, Like they're really good at handling a whole 97 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:53.160 range of animals and they just roll with it. 98 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:55.759 I am much better at being the type. 99 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:59.120 Of person who can really focus on like one topic 100 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:01.720 and get really good at it and just feel really 101 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:04.199 really sort of confident in what I'm doing. So at 102 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:06.480 that point I was like, no, I really am going 103 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:09.879 to specialize because I feel like I am just not 104 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:13.079 really coping with the wide array of sort of like 105 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:16.839 things that I'm thrown into in general practice. 106 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.360 So yeah, then I sort of started. 107 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:20.560 I was over in the UK and I started applying 108 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:23.839 for internships over there to start the process of specializing, 109 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.480 and I got rejected by everywhere I applied for. 110 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:29.879 They just I kept on not getting any jobs. 111 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:33.279 So

then I finally got a job offer at Sidney 112 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:37.240 University back home, in Australia, and so I actually cut 113 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:39.759 my chip short and I flew home to start my 114 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:42.759 internship there and then it float on into residency and 115 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:44.759 all that sort of stuff. And then once I completed 116 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.759 my residency, I moved back home and I started working 117 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:51.199 at a cat only clinic here in my hometown of 118 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:53.879 Melbourne in Australia. And I did that for a couple 119 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:55.839 of years, and I was actually signed up to do 120 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:57.040 my fellowship exams. 121 00:05:57.079 --> 00:05:58.959 I bought exams and I got pregnant. 122 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:02.839 And remember I got pregnant and my due date was 123 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:04.959 going to be basically when I was going to have 124 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:08.720 my oral exams, and I remember when I told my boss. 125 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.680 My boss was like, you timed that really badly, Like 126 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.720 it's true. But you know, for me, I've always kind 127 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:19.279 of just like gone with things because for me, you know, 128 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:22.959 having a family was really important. And I was like, 129 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:25.839 you know, things can wait. You know, there's always you 130 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:28.360 can always sort of like re arrange things. You've been 131 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:32.759 rescheduled things like, you know, there's always ways to rearrange 132 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:36.519 things to make things work. So I basically deferred my 133 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:40.120 exams and I deferred them, I think for two years 134 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.399 because I obviously, you know, the first year after you 135 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.800 have a baby is pretty intense. I remember I did 136 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:50.120 have times where I was, you know, holding my baby 137 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:52.319 for a nap and i had my iPad with like 138 00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:55.399 journal articles open and I'd be like reading and like, 139 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:58.399 you know, should be there like sort of napping on me. 140 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.160 But yeah, I didn't get a lot of study done 141 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:04.040 in that first year. But then just when she was 142 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:07.120 just under two years old was when I actually sat 143 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:09.079 for my dev So it was like a prolonged period 144 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:12.000 because I had had that additional time where I'd worked 145 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:14.360 in cat only practice just to because I felt like 146 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:17.319 I really wanted to get more experience just working in 147 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:19.879 sort of like a wide case slode because when you're 148 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:22.759 in a university, in a university situation, you see really 149 00:07:22.839 --> 00:07:25.120 complicated things because it was obviously like a you know, 150 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:28.560 a tertiary institution, but I think your caseload is smaller 151 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.519 because it's teaching hospitals, so you sort of don't see 152 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:34.199 such a high volume of cases. So when I went 153 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:36.319 into sort of private practice and I was just seeing 154 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:39.160 like a really high volume of cases and being referred 155 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:41.720 a lot, I just felt like I really consolidated my 156 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:44.199 skills that way, and then I took the additional two 157 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:47.040 years because of having a baby. So yeah, so that's 158 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:49.519 why I so it was seventy years later because of 159 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:52.319 my personal lack of planning. 160 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:56.920 No, but I think I'm so glad that you mentioned that, 161 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:01.639 because I do feel very strongly getting the message across 162 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.680 that life happens at the same time as our professional development. 163 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:10.639 And I think your perspective of things can be rearranged 164 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:13.879 is so important to keep in mind. It sounds simple 165 00:08:14.519 --> 00:08:18.040 just in a vacuum, but there's so much pressure to 166 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:21.800 hold on to that testing date or whatever that goal 167 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:23.519 might be, and you work so hard for that moment, 168 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:25.959 but there are other things that are also priorities, and 169 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:30.439 so what can be rearranged what cannot, and letting that 170 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:32.080 guide you through and it. 171 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:33.279 All worked out. 172 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.279 So I think, yeah, I'm just so glad that you 173 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:40.840 shared that experience and that it will be okay if 174 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:43.919 some things need to be rearranged. The timeline might look 175 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:46.879 different than when you started on this goal that you're 176 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.480 working towards, but keep the goal in mind, rearrange the 177 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:51.600 things that can be rearranged. 178 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:53.120 Yeah, that's right. 179 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:55.679 It's just kind of like rolling with things and knowing 180 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:58.840 that as long as you've got your eyes on the prize, 181 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:00.440 you can might contap it, you know. 182 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:01.960 And I think that having. 183 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:04.879 The baby like

really sort of made me very aware 184 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:08.120 of like how I was using my time. You know. 185 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:10.639 I think like I became super super efficient at like 186 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:14.039 using my time that I had, so yeah, and I 187 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:16.799 think it also put things into perspective because I was 188 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:18.960 kind of like, well, I can get through that, I 189 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:20.159 can get through anything. 190 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.159 It's a really challenging time, and so everything. 191 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:25.399 Kind of made me realize that, you know, there's never 192 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:29.879 anything that is insurmountable. You know, things happen, things don't 193 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:32.159 always go to plan, but you can always sort of 194 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.000 like get through it in some way, shape or form. 195 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:37.960 And I think it just like it helped me with 196 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:41.399 my resilience and it helped me with perspective. And yeah, 197 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:43.200 so it was a really kind of I think it 198 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:45.159 all worked out in the end. At the time, you know, 199 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:50.440 it's very very difficult, but yeah, looking back at it, 200 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:53.080 I might have a bit of survivor's bias, but I'm like, yeah, 201 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:54.919 I think it all it all worked out as it 202 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:55.799 should have done. 203 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:00.559 There you go, there, you go, Yeah, that is wonderful 204 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:05.240 point to normalize that it is okay to rearrange things 205 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:05.919 do work out. 206 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:07.879 It might be we're not saying that. 207 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:10.320 It's not going to be challenging in the moment, but 208 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:14.519 it will all work out if you have that goal 209 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:17.799 oriented focus and are willing to be flexible at the 210 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:21.559 same time, which does actually lead me into my next 211 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:24.159 question a bit of that. You spent some time in 212 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.759 practice after getting your board certification, but that also had 213 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:31.519 some twists and turns along the way, So can you 214 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:33.759 describe your time in practice for us. 215 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:38.200 Yeah, So after I did my internship residency and then 216 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.279 did that couple of years in private practice, and I 217 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:43.720 took that time off to have my baby and to 218 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:47.519 study for my boards, I ended up opening a feline 219 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:50.919 only vetmy clinique myself with the business partner and ran 220 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:53.240 that for about five years. So we built it up 221 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:55.559 from scratch and it was doing really well. But in 222 00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:58.080 the end, so things didn't work out, so my husband, 223 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.720 who is also a vet, we sold out of that business. 224 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:04.120 And then after that I was kind of like, well, 225 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:06.360 I've done all this stuff. I've done like almost everything 226 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:09.200 I wanted to do, like in specifically in feline medicine, 227 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:11.559 and we could have opened up another clinic, but I 228 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:14.080 was kind of like, I've always had some other interests. 229 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:17.519 So one of my other major interests was always animal welfare. 230 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:21.120 When I was in high school and in UNI, I 231 00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:23.759 was always the person who was always like banging on 232 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.639 about animal welfare and stuff like that, and like having 233 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.519 robust discussions about animal welfare issues with some of the lecturers. 234 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:34.120 So I decided I would go and try to get 235 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:37.080 a job in animal welfare, and I ended up doing 236 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:40.320 a couple of years as an animal welfare officer at 237 00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:42.080 the University of Melbourne, my alma mater. 238 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:43.960 That's where I did my VETNU degree. 239 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:48.440 And again, that was just a really, really interesting time 240 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:50.559 and I absolutely loved that job. 241 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:51.960 That was one of my favorite jobs there. 242 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:54.360 But we had an amazing team, and I think it 243 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:57.360 was just so nice that we all had this sort 244 00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:00.919 of common goal of just wanting to promote animal welfare 245 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:04.519 and do what was best for the animals. And it 246 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:08.279 was so funny because it was going a complete opposite. 247 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:10.399 And I know I said that I didn't necessarily wanted 248 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:12.919 to be a jack of all trades, and that's why 249 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:15.519 I focused on feline medicine, but then when I went 250 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:17.759 into animal welfare, I was dealing with a whole lot 251 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:20.480 of species but just focusing on their welfare. So it 252 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:22.759 was still quite sort of specialized because that's what I 253 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:24.120 had to know about. We still had to know about 254 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:26.440 their physiology and anatomy and biology and all that sort 255 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:29.120 of stuff, which I did learn, but it was

focused 256 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.600 on their welfare. I'm in the context of their welfare. 257 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:34.440 And I think that when I thought about, you know, 258 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.279 why are you going from feline medicine to this like 259 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:39.159 animal welfare job where you've got to see all these 260 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:40.759 different animals, And I was like, I think I just 261 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:42.559 really loved to learn. I think I got to this 262 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:44.679 stage where I was like, I had done all this 263 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:46.519 stuff and feline medicine, and I was like, what's the 264 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:47.360 next challenge? 265 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:49.000 What else can I sort of learn? 266 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:51.399 Because I really love learning, and so I'm kind of 267 00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:55.120 addicted to this learning thing, and so this new challenge 268 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:58.159 of expanding my knowledge even more was like just so 269 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:00.600 it was so juicy to me, and it was actually 270 00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:03.159 really funny because when I did my interview for it, 271 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:05.519 I remember I was in this panel and there was 272 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:08.320 like four people from the university, like fairly high up 273 00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:12.120 people in this university system interviewing me, and they're like 274 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:15.399 looking at my resume, my CV and they're like, you've 275 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:19.480 very specialized. You've literally only worked with cats for like 276 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:20.600 more than ten years. 277 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:22.840 Are you sure you can do this job? 278 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:24.759 And I was like, yeah, I can totally do this job, 279 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:26.320 but I'm really passionate animal welfare. 280 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:27.960 And they're like, are you sure. 281 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.120 Because you know you're going to be seeing like horses 282 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:37.120 and sheep and goats and like wildlife and donuts. And 283 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:43.279 I was like thinking, what is it Like, I was 284 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:45.679 thinking that, but then I was like, of course I 285 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:50.320 can do all that, and they're like okay, great, well 286 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:52.679 hire you. And then later and I was like, okay, 287 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:54.519 I have to learn about dune uts, how these little 288 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:55.759 Australian marstupiols. 289 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:57.480 And in the end I ended up. 290 00:13:57.399 --> 00:13:59.320 Loving working with the dunhots, like they were one of 291 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:01.399 my favorites tea is to work with and we did 292 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:02.559 a lot of research. 293 00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:03.840 Involved in the data. 294 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.039 But yeah, it was just it was just so funny 295 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:08.039 because I was like the other extent because I had 296 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:09.799 been so specialized, and then I was sort of like 297 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.000 working with all these different species, but again in a 298 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:14.679 very specialized way because I was like really focusing on 299 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.039 their welfare. And it was so nice because it was 300 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:19.519 like my other major interests. I love cats, I love 301 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:21.840 animal welfare, so it was kind of like this sort 302 00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:24.159 of just you know, tickled my brain in such a 303 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:26.679 good way. And then after I did that, I did 304 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:30.080 a couple of years working actually for the AVIA which 305 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:32.840 I think is similar to the AVIU May but it 306 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:36.000 was the Australian version, so the Australian Venterory Association, and 307 00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:38.879 they actually approached me because they had heard that I 308 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:42.120 was an author, a writer and they were looking for 309 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:46.159 a veterinarian to work in their marketing and communications team 310 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.000 as a content writer, and so they asked I would 311 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.080 be interested in doing some work for them, and I 312 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:56.720 was like, well, that's perfect because that again it's a 313 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:57.600 new challenge. 314 00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.519 I love sort of learning things. 315 00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:03.000 I want to learn more about marketing and communications because 316 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:04.919 I just was like really interested in that. 317 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:05.559 Side of things. 318 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:07.799 I wanted to learn more about what the ABA did 319 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:10.360 as well, and it just was a really good marriage 320 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:11.960 of my skill set as well. 321 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:13.720 But I didn't want to leave my other job, so 322 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:15.600 I ended up doing both jobs for a while. 323 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.000 So I was like working, you know, some days at 324 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.039 the ABA, and I was working other days I'm at 325 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:20.759 the university. 326 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:22.240 And I did those two for a bit. 327 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.759 But then it became a bit overwhelming balancing the two 328 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:27.879 of them plus night being an offer and having kids. 329 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.399 So I ended up very sadly leaving the university job 330 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:33.200 and focusing on the ABA job. 331 00:15:33.279 -->

00:15:35.440 And yeah, so it's kind of just done. 332 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.440 Lots of different things, and things that kind of chopped 333 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:41.039 and changed and more fed as my life has changed. 334 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.519 And I would still definitely love to do more animal 335 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.039 welfare work. I'd definitely love to do more feline work, 336 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:50.840 but yeah, I just go with where life takes me, 337 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:54.039 and yeah, just what the circumstances allow for. 338 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.240 I guess thank you so much for walking us through 339 00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:58.960 some of those twice and turns. 340 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.919 As we said, the thing that struck me the most 341 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:07.759 is that your level of enthusiasm was consistent across the 342 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:09.600 broad diversity of. 343 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.399 Areas that you were involved in. VetMed. 344 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:16.559 You love feline specialty, but you also love animal welfare, 345 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.200 and you've loved learning about the marketing and communications and 346 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.600 contributing in that way, and so I think that it's 347 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:25.639 a really good thing for us to keep in mind 348 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:30.039 that are we putting ourselves in a box unnecessarily or 349 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.200 what are all of the passions that we have and 350 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:36.039 how can we explore them in this profession? And I 351 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.039 think that it was really special the way that you 352 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:42.240 identified the common thread between those you like learning new things, 353 00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:46.960 so where can we apply that passion to that It 354 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:50.000 might look a little bit differently, but then that tickles 355 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:53.080 your brain in different ways as well and keeps you 356 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.519 excited about the things that you're doing. So yeah, really 357 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.039 appreciate you sharing that journey with us. 358 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.000 And I think that my time at the AVIA really 359 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:05.480 sin drove home to me that I loved learning about 360 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:08.240 is like I wait really closely with the advocacy team 361 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:10.960 because obviously we were doing a lot of content writing 362 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.880 to highlight all the advocacy work that the ABA was doing, 363 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.519 and they do like incredible advocacy for the profession as 364 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:19.480 well as for animal welfare. So again it was like, 365 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:22.480 you know, just like just bringing in all these interests 366 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.400 that I had already developed and what I sort of 367 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:28.279 like just realized and I already knew this, but it 368 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:30.359 just really sort of like brought home in a very 369 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:34.359 visceral way. It's just how involved vets are across all 370 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:37.160 aspects of life. I was just talking to vets all 371 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.079 the time across the country about all the amazing things 372 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.480 they were doing. And I've always been so interested in 373 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:45.599 learning what people's interests are as well, so I was 374 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:47.759 just always like asking them, like, you know, what are 375 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:49.759 your passions and what are you working on, and just 376 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:53.599 like being so blown away by like the diverse range 377 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:58.279 of skills and diverse involvement that vets have in all 378 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.279 aspects of society. That was just incredible and I think 379 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:04.079 I would love to like to be able to disseminate 380 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.400 that more to the public and just showcase that. And 381 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.480 that's what I loved doing when I was part of 382 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.480 the AVA, and that's partly why I wrote the VOCA. 383 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:13.559 I write as well because I wanted to showcase that. 384 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:17.720 So yeah, yeah, that is so cool, And I didn't 385 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:20.000 want to circle back around to that because it's your 386 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:24.079 writing was the first draw for the AVA, and we 387 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:26.519 haven't even gotten to talk about that yet. So in 388 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:30.279 addition to your other roles, you also are an author. 389 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.599 And the thing that caught my eye about that is 390 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:39.279 author of the fiction genres, because we do hear sometimes 391 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.839 veterinarians who are writing technical books about the profession. You've 392 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:48.000 gone in a completely different direction and exercise that other 393 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:53.160 part of your brain through writing. So what was your inspiration? 394 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.160 What are you doing in that area of your professional 395 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:57.720 life as well? 396 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:01.119 I just always loved writing. I'm a huge reader. 397 00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:03.279 I grew up just always with my nose in a book, 398 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:05.119 and so when I was growing up, I was like 399 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.079 always writing stories and things like that. And then that 400 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.319 stopped when I graduated from high school until sort of 401 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:14.880 like I

had kind of basically finished my I'd gotten 402 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:16.960 my specialty, and I'd done my master's degree, and I've 403 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:18.720 done all of this like sort of vetmory stuff. 404 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:21.119 I didn't do any creative writing in that whole time. 405 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.039 It was like more than ten years because I was 406 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.279 like writing journal articles. I was like writing science things, 407 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:29.200 and I was only ever reading veto things, which is 408 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.519 a very very different part of your brain that you use. 409 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:34.559 And so then I started when my kids were young 410 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:36.319 and they were like little. 411 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:38.759 I was often like nap trapped, so like I was 412 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.039 like with my laptop, they would be like lying on me. 413 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:43.599 I didn't have study to do anymore because I'd already 414 00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:45.799 gotten my specialty, and I was like, I'm just going 415 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.480 to start writing that book that I've always wanted to write. 416 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.880 And so I started writing, and my first efforts were terrible, terrible, 417 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.359 because I had not written creatively for so long, and 418 00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:59.039 it is a skill, it's a muscle that you need 419 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.279 to use that you can lose if you don't use 420 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:03.759 it all the day, but then you can get it back, 421 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:05.640 like it isn't like it's not setting the stone. 422 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:06.599 You don't lose it forever. 423 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.440 So I sort of wrote like a whole bunch, and 424 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.200 I think the first book I wrote, I got about 425 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:12.640 twenty thousand words into it and I was like, this 426 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:14.559 is so bad, no, like no one should ever look 427 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:19.000 at this. Scrapped it all. Then started again learning, like 428 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:22.599 because I went back to craft and I started learning 429 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:25.519 about how you approach writing creatively and so again it 430 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:27.480 was this challenge that I wanted to do. It was 431 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.000 like more learning. It was like I wanted to learn 432 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.480 how to write creatively again. So I started like connecting 433 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.920 with other authors and we would train writing samples and 434 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:39.480 I learned a lot from them. And then I started 435 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:41.880 writing another book and I wrote another book, and then 436 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.480 I wrote a third book, and then that was the 437 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.519 one that I ended up querying agents with and signing 438 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:50.160 with an agent and then getting a publishing deal for 439 00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:52.480 and then it sort of went from there. And so 440 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:55.359 that was all sort of happening in the background in 441 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:57.640 after hours. I was doing that, like really at night 442 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:00.920 after the kids were in bed asleep, and I was 443 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.519 doing that while I was doing you know, I had 444 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:05.359 the business, and then I sold out of the business 445 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:07.799 and then did the animal welfare work and did the 446 00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:10.279 AVA work as well. I was doing that during the 447 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:12.359 day and I was writing at night, and it was 448 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.000 just a really nice way of using. 449 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:16.680 My brain in a really different way. 450 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.480 And yeah, so at first I was writing things that 451 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:22.039 were completely not Vetory related because it was kind of 452 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:24.960 like my escape. But yeah, and my third published book 453 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:28.319 that just came out in May is actually like Vetory related, 454 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.480 and it was the first one I'd ever really sort 455 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.440 of like written that was so close to kind of 456 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:33.279 like my life. 457 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.160 I was like, why didn't I do this sooner? 458 00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:37.960 You know, I mean I kind of I kind of know, 459 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.680 because as I said, I did it initially to escape 460 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:43.319 from my day job. You know, I was working in 461 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:45.960 my own clinic to begin with when I started writing, 462 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:47.359 so I was kind of like, I'm going to write 463 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:50.079 about stuff that's completely different because this is my day job, 464 00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:51.720 and I'm just like, I don't want to go home 465 00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:54.839 and experience morrifying day job. But then now with a 466 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:56.839 little bit more time and distance, because I have not 467 00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.559 been in clinical work for a little while, I was like, oh, 468 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.519 what if I wrote about magical veterinarians. And so in 469 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:05.240 this book, the small and moal vetts treat which is familiar, 470 00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:08.240 so things like cats and reptiles or birds or whatever 471 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:12.000 that will communicate with the witches to help you channel magic. 472 00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:15.200 And then the large animal vets will treat mythical creatures, 473

00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.960 so like dragons and centaurs, unicorns, that sort of thing. 474 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:20.599 So yeah, that was really fun because I could sort 475 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:23.240 of bring in like my knowledge and then like apply 476 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:25.319 it to these fantasy situations and. 477 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:26.640 Just had a lot of fun with it. 478 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:28.839 And so, you know, I was hoping that it would 479 00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:31.119 be a book that would appeal to, you know, an 480 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:34.319 audience that doesn't know about vetmoself, but also appeal to 481 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.000 ti vets who you might like fantasy and romance. 482 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:38.960 So fascinating. 483 00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:45.599 I love hearing the homecoming of your enthusiasm for creative 484 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:50.119 writing and the way you pursued that in a similar 485 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:55.440 way to pursuing the different aspects of your veterinary professional career, 486 00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:59.160 and that you're able to incorporate some vatman into that 487 00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.720 third book and be able to experience both of those 488 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:09.400 sides together. Also so impressed with your ability to navigate 489 00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:12.880 a full time job, pursuing a passion in the evenings, 490 00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.000 and then also making sure that you've got time for 491 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:20.319 family and other relationships. I do have to ask, though, 492 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.160 especially with the last book, in the writing process, there 493 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:29.759 have there been any similarities expected or unexpected between the 494 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.640 practice of vemed and getting a book published on paper. 495 00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:35.920 They look completely wildly different. 496 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.039 But really, when it comes down to it, I think 497 00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:41.920 really like empathy unites the two things, because in both 498 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:46.000 cases you really have to really empathize with the people 499 00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:49.400 that you're either writing about or working with, and obviously, 500 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.359 like we all know as vets, you really have to 501 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.680 have such empathy for the animals, but also for the 502 00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:59.160 people involved with those animals, whether they're owners or whether 503 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:02.400 they're you know, farmers or researchers or whoever you're working with, 504 00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:05.480 the you know, ancillary to those, to those animals you're 505 00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:07.720 working with. You really have to be a people person. 506 00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:10.359 And so you know, I spent so much time when 507 00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.200 I was working in Get New Medicines really fascinated by 508 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:14.680 the people I worked with. And I remember I was 509 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.319 always like asking them what did you work? Like what 510 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:19.359 are your pasions? Like what are you interested in? Like 511 00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:21.519 I was just like so curious about like their lives 512 00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:24.839 because they were so different to mine. And so you know, 513 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:26.640 I think that that was that was that thing. And 514 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:29.200 then like when I'm writing, it's almost like I'm just 515 00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.160 kind of like sticky beeking into I think that's a 516 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.720 very Australian term, isn't it, sticky beeking is it? Yeah? 517 00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:36.960 Sticky beeing is basically where you're like being a little 518 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.319 bit of a like peeping tom into like their lives. 519 00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:42.640 So I'm like creating these characters, but. 520 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.319 I'm kind of like being a little bit like hey, 521 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:47.160 what what you what have you got going on? I'm 522 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:49.279 like looking over their shoulders, being like, hey, you tell me, 523 00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.960 tell me what you're doing. And so it kind of 524 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:56.720 again it's like developing that empathy, it's being curious about people, 525 00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:00.680 and obviously in my latest book, it's also the animal 526 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.559 aspects of it in as well. 527 00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:04.039 So fascinating. 528 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:08.839 It's so true that empathy is really at the core 529 00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:14.240 of our profession, and I really hadn't thought about how 530 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.000 intimately you need to be able to understand and relate 531 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:20.519 to your characters as an author as well, And so 532 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:25.039 what a great uniting factor between the two is that 533 00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:28.839 curiosity that you mentioned is at the heart of it 534 00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.720 and wanting to make those connections, whether it's in the 535 00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:36.480 exam room or across the pages. I can totally see 536 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.039 why the challenge would be an enticing combination of similar 537 00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:40.680 but different. 538 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:41.680 It makes a lot of sense. 539 00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.599 Well, Keis, thank you so much for coming on the 540 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.799 show and chatting about your career journey and giving us 541 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:51.200 a little window into what looks like to be a 542 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:55.519 veterinarian and an author and also a mother. You're balancing 543 00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:59.319 a lot, and your enthusiasm for each of the aspects 544 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.960 of your life life really shines through, and I absolutely 545 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.839 loved hearing from you and your perspective on all things 546 00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:07.160 veterinary and beyond. 547 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:09.599 Thank you, Thank you so much for having me. It 548 00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:10.880 was really fun to chat. 549 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.480 Likewise, and thank you to each of you for joining 550 00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:16.400 us on this episode of My Veterinary Life podcast. We 551 00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:19.000 love sharing this journey with you, and remember, we want 552 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:20.880 to hear from you, so please be sure to leave 553 00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:23.720 us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or whatever 554 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:26.279 platform you listen to, and you can also email me 555 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.640 at MVL podcast at ABMA dot org. 556 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:31.599 Take care and we'll see you next time.