النص الكامل لحلقة Wild Magic with Abiola Bello

friend was a publicist. 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:39.199 And she wasn't, she's just a good little chat. 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:41.199 And she gave my friend her card. 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:43.840 So I messaged Helen and I was like, I don't have any money. 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:45.439 So I don't know what you want to do. 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.520 And Helen's like, okay, that's what within your budget. 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:51.199 And she got me lots of great PR marketing for Emily. 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:54.479 And then I remember I spoke to Virgin startup. 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:59.360 They were looking for young people who want to start a business and they wanted to invest in them. 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:01.680 And I was like, oh, maybe me and Helen should do something together. 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:04.400 Bear in mind, me and Helen didn't know each other in that way. 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:07.199 I think I met her maybe once, but we seemed to get along well. 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:09.360 And I just kind of told her and she was like, okay. 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:20.560 So then we kind of put this whole pitch together, got the money, started up the author school, which was great because that's when I managed to get agents and editors there very easily to talk about publishing. 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:22.959 And I was like, oh, this is why I wanted to learn. 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:25.360 And then I started making contacts from there. 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:30.000 And then that's when I realized that having a really good agent is important, not just having an agent. 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:31.839 So then I looked on my agent, God bless her. 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:34.720 And I was like, I don't think this is the right agent for me. 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:38.959 So then it took me a while because obviously I'd been told forever you need to have an agent. 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:41.199 And now here I am because of pain firing my agent. 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:44.079 But I felt a bit more confident because I knew more people in the industry. 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:45.360 I felt like I could connect. 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:46.720 So I fired my agent. 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:53.199 I spoke to two really good agents, and they seemed excited to sign me, but they both were going off on maternity leave. 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:56.399 And I was just like, oh not good timing. 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:57.120 I know. 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:04.240 And then a lady called Stephanie Nimmo had come to the author school and she'd written this memoir, which was later called What's in the Plan. 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:07.040 And she really liked me and Helen, and Steph is great. 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:09.040 And she was like, I want you not to publish my memoir. 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:10.639 We were like, we're not publishers. 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:12.079 And I was like, maybe we should be. 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:14.720 That was the wisest choice in life, but it's fine. 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:16.319 And so we published Steph's book. 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:18.720 That went into these top 10, which was amazing. 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:20.319 It did so well, such a great book. 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:22.480 And we're redoing that book actually this summer. 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:24.399 And then hashtag Ben grew. 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:29.519 And then when we had signed Steph, I then got offered a book deal for Emily. 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:36.160 And then Helen got very nervous that we were pretending to be publishers and pretending like we do what we were doing. 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:38.319 And she was worried we were going to mess up Steph's book. 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:40.959 And Steph's book's memoir, it's very sad. 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:42.720 And we were like, we can't mess this up, right? 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:44.720 And Helen's like, we need to practice on a book. 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:46.399 And I was like, yeah, what book? 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:48.000 We need to practice on your book. 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:50.000 I was like, what? 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:55.600 And then I had to turn down this deal and give my Emily books to hashtag so we could practice. 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:58.720 And if we messed it up, then I guess it's just my book that got messed up. 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:00.000 And we didn't mess it up. 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:04.319 And that's basically why Emily is published with hashtag and hashtag grew. 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:08.079 And then in 2020, I met my agent Gemma on Twitter. 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:09.839 She wasn't open for submissions. 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:11.839 I actually was talking to another agent at the time. 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:13.839 So I wasn't looking for her to be my agent. 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:15.199 And she really liked my book. 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:17.120 And we had a chat and I said, I'm not looking for an agent. 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.199 She was like, Well, I think you should take me. 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:23.519 And then she like persuaded me, we got along really well, and the rest is history. 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:24.079 Wow. 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:26.560 That's a very good potted history. 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:34.399 But I love the fact that hashtag you had to practice, like Helen just threw your book into the sacrificial altar to have a go at. 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:43.759 The thing is, I was so confident that we could do Steph's book well, but then when it then comes to celebrati with your book, suddenly I was like, huh, hold on, how confident am I? 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:45.920 But realistically, we didn't know what we were doing. 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:49.519 We didn't have a sales team for two years because no one took us seriously. 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:51.120 I don't think we took ourselves seriously. 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:55.120 I don't know why Steph took us seriously, but she did bless her, and it worked really well. 00:06:55.120 -->

00:06:58.079 And now we've done 20 plus books and we're 10 years in. 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:00.240 So yeah, it's fantastic. 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:07.680 And what we wanted to chat to you today is about your wild magic series, which is quite a different world from Emily Knight and your YA books. 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:11.040 So it has the lovely twins, Misha and Ziggy. 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:12.240 Where did they come from? 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:15.279 What was the spark for those two lovely kids? 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:18.160 Initially, Misha and Ziggy were sisters. 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:19.920 That was initially my thing. 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:22.720 My friend had been telling me to name a character after her. 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:27.839 So I called, I think it was Misha and Zara, I think it was, because my friends named Zara. 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:38.959 And then when we pitched it to SNS, my editor at Simon Mina was like, I think it'd be better if it was brother and sister, so that we don't thing the boy readers. 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:40.000 I was like, okay. 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:43.680 And she was just like, well, that Misha and a Zed name. 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:44.959 So I thought, okay, maybe Ziggy. 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:47.360 She goes, Oh, what about if they were twins instead? 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:48.800 That'd be really fun. 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:50.000 And I was like, yeah. 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:52.240 So then my friend got kicked to the curb. 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:53.759 But I did dedicate a second book to her. 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:54.720 Then that's my book. 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:56.480 That would have been an interesting conversation. 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:58.079 You promised her a book. 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:00.399 I was like, sorry, babe, but it's so name Ziggy. 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:01.199 And she's like, What? 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:02.959 Begins with a Zed. 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:05.759 I was like, they like Misha. 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:07.199 I can't like, come on. 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:08.560 So you got twins. 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:13.040 How did you decide on their backstory and grow them as characters? 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:20.000 Me and my agent Gemma were just talking about shows we used to watch as kids. 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:25.040 And I had said, Oh, there's this really great cartoon on Nickelodeon called The Wild Thornbury's. 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:27.360 And Gemma was like, I love the Wild Thornbury's. 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:32.159 Bear in mind, no one I talked to seems to even know what I'm talking about or didn't really love it. 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:33.759 And I think it's a very underrated cartoon. 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:36.240 And so we were talking about how amazing it was, how no one cares. 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:39.440 And I was like, oh my gosh, what if I did a Wild Thornbury's on Made It Black? 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:40.960 And we just were laughing about it. 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:43.120 It wasn't anything serious. 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:47.600 And this was like, I don't think I had written the YA yet. 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:49.600 Because I had Wild Magic for quite a long time, actually. 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:51.279 I don't think I'd even started the YA. 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:53.279 I hadn't signed the YA, definitely not. 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:55.519 So I started thinking about this whole pitch. 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:58.639 And we actually had a different publisher in mind for it. 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:01.600 And they wanted us to send like five different ideas to them. 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:03.440 So I did a few, and then they picked two. 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:04.879 One of them was Wild Magic. 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:06.639 And then I just fleshed it out. 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:13.200 Then when I got the YA deal with SNS, we just thought it probably is polite to tell them, Oh, I've got a chapter book. 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.440 If you want to look at it, but we was going to go somewhere else. 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:22.399 And then my editor was like, Yeah, do you want to write a chapter and just see if you can write in this age group? 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:24.000 And I was like, I don't know about this age group. 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:27.279 So I was, I just wrote it and then it worked, which was great. 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:29.200 But I love an animal documentary. 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:32.960 I just really just can just re-watch any animal thing a lot. 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:40.480 And I just think there are not a lot of books that I've seen with black kids and animals and magic and adventure. 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:41.200 I haven't seen that. 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.919 I'm not in the chapter book space prior to Wild Magic. 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:51.440 I didn't know that there wasn't a lot of chapter book options, and actually there's not a lot of black characters in chapter book, I didn't know any of that stuff. 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:53.759 So that was interesting to learn all of that. 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:57.120 And yeah, Wild Magic has been a fun little ride. 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:05.919 It's the hardest book I've definitely done because it I went into it thinking everything was going to be fancy and I could just make make up an animal and just have fun. 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:09.360 And SS are like, oh no, we need facts and we need, and I was like, what? 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:10.799 And I did not sign up for that. 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:19.519 So there was a lot of research, and the research gets on my nerves so much because I'll write something and I have a habit of finding information, not remembering where I got it from. 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:22.639 So when it gets flagged, I'm like, where did I see that? 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:23.840 And sometimes I can't find it. 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:25.840 So they think I made it up, but I didn't make it up. 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:26.799 I

looked for it. 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:28.720 So that can be quite annoying. 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:30.960 They were like, oh, kids love learning facts. 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:32.080 I was like, do they? 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:35.759 And I was really mad about it actually, because that's not what I wanted to do. 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:41.039 And even with the black lion, I remember years ago on Twitter, it was this black lion that went viral. 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:41.919 It was jet black. 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:43.679 And everyone was like, oh my god, this is amazing. 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:45.120 I was like, oh my god, this is so cool. 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:48.240 And I think a year later everyone was like, oh, it was Photoshop, it's not really a thing. 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:51.919 But there were black lions, not obviously like that, but there were black lions lived in Ethiopia. 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:53.200 And I was like, that's really cool. 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:55.039 Oh my gosh, I should say something about this. 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:57.039 I don't know why I thought I had to, but I did. 00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:59.360 And that's where the black lion came from. 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:04.639 But when we initially start in the book, I wanted it to be based on the viral one, like jet black and really cool. 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:06.639 And they were like, no, we can't just make stuff up. 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:10.320 And I was like, what when they were like, oh no, it's gonna be like non-fiction too. 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:11.600 And I was like, no, it's not. 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:14.159 I was so angry because I didn't want to do that. 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:17.919 Yeah, so it has to be branded in facts, but they do have special powers, don't they? 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:18.879 Magical powers. 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:19.440 They do. 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:21.200 I got my way in in some ways. 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:22.960 So yeah, I could have my little magic in there. 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:28.480 So yeah, they have their magical powers, and I thought it would be fun that the twins had this special connection with animals. 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:32.159 Their dad was a wildlife too presenter, and he just doesn't know what's going on. 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:36.320 And I thought that was just a really fun, cute thing that the kids could do. 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:37.919 So tell us about their powers. 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:40.399 What powers do they have for people who haven't read the books? 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:48.320 So Misha can speak to animals, and Ziggy can shape shift into animals, but only these close to them. 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:52.000 And once he's shapeshifted once into animal, he can always then do it. 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:55.360 And he can speak to animals as well once he's in animal form. 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:56.720 But as a human, he can't. 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:58.879 So there's lots of debates with kids when I go to

school. 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:00.960 They're like, I think Ziggy has the best power because he can. 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:02.879 I'm just like, but Misha can always be on. 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:03.919 So I don't know about that. 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.279 But yeah, so Misha's probably a bit more sensible with things. 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:10.320 Ziggy just gets very excited about everything. 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:11.519 He just goes head first. 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:12.639 And they're really cute. 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:16.080 They don't really fight, they have a very sweet relationship. 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:20.240 They've inherited these powers from their mother and their grandmother. 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:30.080 And their grandma, who lives in Nigeria, has told them to keep it a secret because when their mum was known in the town to have this power, they thought she was like a witch and really dangerous. 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:31.440 So they were like, keep it secret. 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:33.279 You can't even tell your dad this. 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:35.519 And their mum just loves being an animal. 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:37.440 So she's just gone somewhere. 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:38.799 So I've met her. 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:40.639 I don't know how that plays out. 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:41.440 She's gone. 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:46.639 Yeah, and they're with their dad and they hang out with their grandparents and they have a very sweet little family. 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:52.320 So when you go in schools and the kids argue over which is the best power, which one do they come down on? 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:59.120 I think they're mainly drawn to Ziggy because once he's an animal, then he can speak as well and he has Misha's power. 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:00.879 So I think they're kind of drawn to Ziggy. 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:03.360 And some kids have been like, I feel bad for Misha because she can't down. 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:04.320 I was like, Misha's fine. 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:07.039 So yeah, as you said, we're drawn to Ziggy. 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:11.679 But I think Misha has the best power because I think she's always on the ball with it. 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.000 Whereas Ziggy's not necessarily always on the ball with it. 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:14.639 Bless him. 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:17.759 Yeah, she definitely feels like she's running the show a bit. 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:25.440 And we need to think about things because in this one, like he'd not twig that with granny and grandad on the trip because they go as a whole big family, don't they? 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:30.960 In this one, that they wouldn't be able to talk to the animals because they'd be being watched too closely. 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:34.960 But I love the grandparents in this because they're like, we're not going to babysit. 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:35.759 I know. 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:37.360 They're basically my parents. 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:40.879 My parents' names, and it's basically how they would rally. 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:45.600 Even the scene where they go to the airport and grandma's over the limit and they're having to repack it. 00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:46.879 That's my mom every trip. 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:48.879 I don't know what some of it does she know more to nice. 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:50.159 Yeah, she knows. 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:50.799 That is her. 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:55.039 So every reaction they have is exactly how they would react with things. 00:13:55.039 --> 00:14:00.480 They would refuse to babysit and they would be like, We're going to the beach, and we don't know what you're doing all day when we're going to the beach. 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:01.600 And that's what they would do. 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:08.240 So you've you've managed the device of getting rid of one of the parents really well in terms of the mother deciding she prefer to be an animal. 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:09.120 I can get that. 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:16.559 There'll probably, if there are moments in motherhood where I can definitely see opting out, joining the animal kingdom, would have been a good choice. 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.159 We're left with their dad as a single parent. 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:27.039 And was that a conscious decision to have a dad as the sort of the main parent in the book? 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:36.159 Because there aren't many dads who have those positive models or that show that positive relationship in books, and there are even fewer black dads. 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.919 I think I knew I wanted their dad to be a wildlife TV presenter. 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:45.759 I don't think I thought about the mum until I thought, oh, they can get their power from their mum. 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:47.600 Oh, maybe their mum could just be an animal. 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:49.440 And I think that's where it came in. 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:54.000 And I think on some level, I don't read a lot of books about single dads. 00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:02.559 And I just like the idea of one just being super present, even though he's traveling a lot, he's still very much there when they're there and paying attention. 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:15.279 And I just like the idea that they trick themselves into coming on his trip, and he just has no idea what his kids can do, and he just thinks it's all him and how amazing his team is, and they get all these animal shots, and he has no idea that it's their children that's getting it together. 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:21.039 And I thought that was quite funny, but yeah, I don't think on purpose I sat up being like, okay, they're gonna be raised by a single dad. 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:24.480 No, I just think I just wanted their dad to be the presenter, yeah. 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:31.440 And it would be much harder for them to get away with what they get away with if there were two parents, you feel true. 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:32.080

I think so. 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:43.360 And like in World Fawn Brees, there's like a mum and a dad, and the dad is quite aloof, and the mum is always a dad because I think she films him, but she's always still paying attention to what's going on at home. 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:52.320 So yeah, the mum is always like still like that, like looking, whereas I think dads aren't necessarily like like he just gets local people to watch his kids. 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.960 Like he's just yeah, they're fine, do you know what I mean? 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:57.120 I've had an email with them, they seem fine. 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:00.639 He says, We'll see you at dinner, and he's has no idea where his kids are the whole day. 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:03.360 And I think it just works well for the book and for the kids, yeah. 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:07.840 See, we're in Mexico for this one, which is brilliant with sea turtles. 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:08.720 How did you choose? 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:10.879 Because there's just three in the series, isn't there? 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:12.720 I don't think there's a plan to do any more. 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:17.200 How did you decide the three different places or the three different stories? 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:22.559 Yeah, so the first one was easy because I wanted to do the whole black lion thing and they they're in Ethiopia. 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.799 And I really loved that they were in Ethiopia because I've never read a book about Ethiopia. 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:32.559 I actually didn't know anything about Ethiopia, or that I knew so many people who were Ethiopians, that was eye-opening for me. 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:34.399 So that was really cool doing that one. 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:44.960 And then the second one, I wanted to do elephants because I feel like everyone loves elephants, and I loved the whole thing with elephants about when an elephant dies, how they mourn them and they go and pay respects. 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:46.399 I thought that was just so cool. 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:52.240 The problem with book two is when I said, Oh, yeah, it's mean India, I was like, wait, where do elephants go in India? 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.519 Because I was just thinking of the cities and stuff, and I was like, wait, where are they? 00:16:55.519 --> 00:17:04.400 So that took a bit of research, and there's a herd called the Moniker herd that actually does this route from Kerala to Tamonadu, and that's how I did that one. 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.599 And then the third one, do you know what? 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:11.200 So the third one I kind of said as a joke, and it just stuck. 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:14.240 Basically, I just re-watched Finding Nemo. 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:20.319 I love the Sea Turtles, and I was like, oh my gosh, I should do sea turtles, and my friend had just gone to Metzgo, oh my gosh, she needs Metsco. 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:26.400 And then I kind of said it, and then after I

changed my mind, I was like, Oh, I don't think I want to do sea turtles, I don't want to do it. 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.599 And then SS were just stuck on the sea turtles and they wouldn't let it go. 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:30.480 And I was like, No, I want to do some. 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.039 I was like, no, no, we really think, and I was like, I don't want to do it. 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.240 I had a black and full fight as pages, obviously I lost. 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:44.319 And then when I started doing research on it and found out they were like, had been in the dinosaurs and the plastic pollution, I was like, actually, this is actually really fun. 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:49.759 So yeah, but I kind of said sea turtles because of Nemo, and then I changed my mind, but it was too late. 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:50.880 Did you get to go? 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:52.960 Have you been to any of the locations? 00:17:53.200 --> 00:18:00.960 I have not been to any of these locations, but what's been really interesting, especially book two, I had a school tour for Wild Magic. 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:06.640 So I was with lots of bookshops who were taking me around, and I would mention writing this book in India setting Kerala to Mana do. 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:09.119 And all of them were like, oh my gosh, we're backpacking around there. 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:09.920 And I was like, What? 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:11.519 I'd never even heard of these places. 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:18.720 So they gave me such good information, and then in my old flat, I was selling one of the girls there, and she was like, Oh, you're from Kerala. 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:19.599 I was like, What? 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:21.680 So yeah, it was just so eye-opening. 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:26.480 So I ended up meeting loads of people from these places I didn't know about, and yeah, they gave me great fat. 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:27.200 So it was awesome. 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:33.440 And then my friend literally goes to Mexico every year, so I was like, When you're there, just send me videos and just tell me about your day. 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:34.640 And she was like, What do you mean? 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:35.759 I said, Tell me that about the food. 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:39.599 And she was gonna be like, All right, oh, there's a blue flower here, and she just say random stuff. 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:42.000 I was like, This helps visually for me, so yeah. 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:46.480 So and I give her a task, be like, see if you can find this and what does it look like and stuff. 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:53.359 So between all of these people, I was able to bring it to life in a way that hopefully makes it feel like I've been there. 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.880 Definitely, and the illustrations are a huge part, aren't they? 00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:58.079 From Emma McCann. 00:18:58.400 --> 00:18:58.799 Yeah. 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:01.359 What's it been like working over the three books? 00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:03.759 How do you work together to put them together? 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:05.359 Yeah, Emma's awesome. 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:11.440 So basically, when we signed Wild Magic, I think it got put on pause because of the YA books. 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:18.000 When we got back onto it, I think the assumption was I wanted a black illustrator, which I actually had never said. 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:22.160 And I was like, no, I just want someone who is a good illustrator. 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:27.759 So I found a list of people that had been part of the Divest Book Awards actually, and was looking at all their stuff. 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:30.480 And I think we got down to three illustrators I really liked. 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.160 Emma was one of them, and Emma was just the most on it, to be honest. 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:35.200 She was just very quick. 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:39.920 I love her drawings because I loved Serena Patel's books a lot, and she was just really excited to do it. 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:41.680 So work with her has been great. 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:52.160 How it usually works is obviously I write the text and then SNS will pick out the images, and then Emma will draw, sketch of them, and then send them to me. 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:57.279 Then I'll say whatever I need to say about some of the notes, or I might suggest a different picture. 00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:59.039 And then she does the final design. 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:00.480 It's quite straightforward, actually. 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:04.319 And then she sent me a few, she's done two now draw with me videos. 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:10.000 So one for Gemba the Lion and one for Shreya the Elephant, which I take into schools and they love it. 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:11.519 And I try and draw it, not great. 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:12.000 I try. 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.759 It's been really cool working with Emma, and I just think she's just so talented. 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:19.359 So I really have appreciated that my first chapterbook series was of her. 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:28.799 So I like this one where I'm showing the picture of where Ziggy's turned into the lion, and there's the look on the real lion's face when Ziggy's there, okay. 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:34.559 She does eyes really well and eyebrows, they tell the whole story just in the eyes. 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:41.440 She just brought them to life so perfectly that when they first showed me Sh and Ziggy, I was like, Oh my gosh, that's Mean Sh and Ziggy. 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:42.319 It was perfect. 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:45.599 So she definitely was the right person to done this. 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:58.000 And so you've mentioned the obviously with the turtles, there's a conservation issue with the plastic and poaching with the lions and in Ethiopia and the reduction in the elephant's habitat. 00:20:58.319 --> 00:20:59.440 Yeah, like deforestation. 00:20:59.680 -->

00:21:00.480 Deforestation. 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:03.759 That is the word I'm looking for in India. 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:05.920 Was that part of the story that you wanted to tell? 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:08.880 Well, why did you focus on on particularly on those ones? 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:10.000 That's a good question. 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:13.279 I probably watched a documentary and those things have come up. 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:14.880 That's probably literally what happened. 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:19.599 I think when I was looking up Black Lions, it came up about poaching a lot. 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:22.079 How rare they are, how much people keep trying to find them. 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.519 So I was like, okay, let's do poaching. 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.720 I did wonder if poaching was a bit too serious for that age. 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:33.200 But actually, I think it worked because when I go into schools, the kids all know what poaching is anyway, which I was quite surprised about. 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:46.400 With the elephants migrating, I think I had seen a documentary of elephants migrating and the calf got stuck in like the mud, and the mud got caused because of some manhole thing. 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:49.920 It was like a human era basically and the elephant got stuck in and the elephant trying to get out. 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:52.000 And I was like, gosh, we really do mess everything up for everyone. 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.119 So I wanted to focus on that and the separation. 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:59.839 And then with the seed hurls and plastic pollution, I was aware of plastic pollution. 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:00.400 Pollution. 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.480 I don't think I understood how big plastic pollution is. 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:08.240 And there's there was one area I don't know if I even put in the book. 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:11.359 And it's just basically known as a place for plastic. 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:12.880 Yeah, it's shocking actually. 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:13.920 Yeah. 00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:15.759 And I was just like, oh my gosh. 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:20.319 And I think it was certain things I found that like I didn't know sea turtles couldn't breathe on the water. 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:23.359 So I was like, oh my gosh, when they get stuck, they die. 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:23.599 What? 00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:25.119 And yeah, it was all these things. 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:27.039 And I got really a bit angry about that. 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:35.359 So yeah, any way to explain things that we can do, especially for children, like things like respect animals in their space. 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:37.200 Don't throw things in their thing. 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.160 Don't create hindrances for them because it could affect the babies. 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:42.400 Just little things that kids can take away from that. 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:48.559 So they know when they get older, God willing, they'll be better humans and will protect the animals rather than hurt them. 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:50.480 I think that it's really nicely done as well. 00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:52.400 Because it doesn't feel preachy. 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.279 It doesn't feel like there's a message in this story. 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:56.960 It's part of the story. 00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:57.359 Yeah. 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:58.960 And that's quite hard to do actually. 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:00.799 Oh, yeah. 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:01.039 Okay. 00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:05.839 We do sometimes get books that are we go, oh, this is what they're telling everybody. 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:06.880 Oh, okay. 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:08.559 I'm just trying to show you the magic. 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:12.000 Yeah, I think the magic is brilliant. 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.240 I think that's what gives it a lighter feel, doesn't it? 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:16.000 Because that's what the story's all about. 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:22.480 And this is a big issue, and there is stuff you can do about it, but you're a kid, it's not your responsibility to do this now. 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:22.960 Yeah. 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:23.359 Yeah. 00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:29.279 It does give the responsibility to like know about it and try and make good like with the kids in schools. 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:31.279 I always say to them about the beach. 00:23:31.279 --> 00:23:33.039 When you go to the beach, it's a beautiful day. 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:35.680 Your mum gives you an ice lolly, you put the wrapper down. 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:37.119 And guys, I said, What's the problem with the beach? 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:38.079 They're like, It's really big. 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:40.160 I said, Yeah, it's big, so you can't find the bin, right? 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:41.759 So you put the wrapper on the sand. 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:42.319 What happens? 00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:43.359 They're like, Oh, the wind. 00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:44.160 Where does it go? 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:44.799 In the water. 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:45.920 I'm like, so what do we do? 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:46.799 Put it in the bin. 00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:51.440 So it's this little thing where they understand, oh, okay, if I just do that, then I'm saving the sea turtles. 00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.480 I'm like, there you go. 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:52.799 Yeah. 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:58.079 And the magic means that you can give the twins more agency and do impossible things. 00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:06.720 It does get that excitement and the focus for them to be able to do it, even if the solutions for the children reading it may be more simple and everyday. 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.319 We can't all like, you know, we can't all have magic powers, sadly. 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:14.240 Yeah, be pushed up in the air by a dolphin randomly because we can talk to them. 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:15.680 We can't all do that,

unfortunately. 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.880 But you cannot put rubbish in the ocean to keep it off. 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:25.119 And so this is the first time you've written for the younger readers, aren't they? 00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:26.480 Sort of six and up. 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:31.200 What was different about doing that age group from middle grade? 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.440 The word count was different. 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:38.400 I'm used to writing 60,000 words plus, and then this you're like 25. 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:40.160 Far more words than you needed. 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.680 Or were you going, oh, I don't need very many, and then realizing you needed. 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:51.599 I actually was not too bad with the word count, maybe because my editor was really on it. 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:54.319 So I wasn't terrible with the word count. 00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:58.559 I think there were things like there'd be lots of things like, oh, you don't need to explain that, or you don't need to explain this. 00:24:58.559 --> 00:24:59.599 I'd be like, oh, okay. 00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:01.920 And the pace of it is quite quick, which I like. 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:04.000 You'd have to do a lot of build-up like we did with YA. 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:06.000 If you have to set everything up, you'd have to redo that. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.000 You can kind of show you in chapter books. 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:09.839 And what else do I find difficult? 00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:12.480 I think it was just the research I found just difficult. 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:16.160 And just explaining things in a way that was simple to children. 00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:24.319 I'm describing like what a coral reef was, just trying to explain it in a way that wasn't super aggressive. 00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:34.480 So yeah, it's more the non-fiction bits of it, trying to simplify it, but still getting across what you're trying to say, but then not patronising and making it too simplistic. 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:35.200 It's just that. 00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:36.319 Or some words I might use. 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:38.000 It might be like, oh, this seems a bit too grown. 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:41.039 I'll be like, oh, is that like I think that's what I found quite challenging. 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:42.319 You've got three. 00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:43.039 Yes. 00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:44.319 Are there going to be any more? 00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:45.440 Because they've been really popular. 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:47.839 Or is this a not known yet? 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:51.200 I've been told this on a break, so I don't really know what that means. 00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:53.680 So I'm taking that as a no. 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:54.880 That's what I think. 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:56.559 Would you want to write some more? 00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:58.160 Yeah, I love wild magic. 00:25:58.160 --> 00:25:58.880 It's really fun. 00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:03.279 I'd love to do

three maybe like cold countries or something, explore like those animals. 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:04.559 I think it'd be fun to do. 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:05.839 There's obviously do more. 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:12.000 I'm always down to more because I think it has done well as a series, and kids seem to like it a lot, which is really great. 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:14.960 And also, I learn a lot doing it, which I enjoy. 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.960 Even though I hate all the nonfiction parts, I'm learning a lot, and I do love to learn. 00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:25.759 So, you know, it's like a Do you find yourself dropping those sort of new facts that you've learned into other random conversations? 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:26.799 Oh, absolutely. 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:31.200 Also, kids typically think I'm like an animal expert, which is amazing. 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:34.319 And they'll say things and catch me out, and I get really frustrated. 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:36.720 There's an animal all kids seem to love at the minute. 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:38.160 Otters, maybe? 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:39.279 Not otters. 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:41.920 It's a very ugly looking thing, but I think it's really cute. 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:43.279 It's got a really weird name. 00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:46.079 Begins of oh, but they all love this animal. 00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:47.759 So they will ask you questions about it. 00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:49.680 And I'm like, I was like, I don't have never heard of it. 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:50.880 How have you not heard of it? 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:55.359 Oh, it's I know about these three animals I've written about in this book. 00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:57.359 So some kids do catch me out. 00:26:57.599 --> 00:26:58.720 What did we learn last week? 00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:03.599 We learned that baby platypuses are called puggles. 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:04.799 Oh, yes. 00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.599 Oh that was cute. 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:09.039 That is cute. 00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:09.599 Yeah. 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:10.880 Oh, I love that. 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:13.279 No, it's not, it's not this animal, the awesome. 00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:14.240 No, it's not that. 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:14.880 Okay. 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.799 It sounds similar to it. 00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:20.960 But yeah, they all love it and they all think it's really cute, and I don't, so I got like hell for that. 00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:25.680 But kids, they're so fun because kids just love animals and murder, which is really weird. 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:27.680 Yeah, yeah, weirdly, both those things. 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:28.400 Both those things. 00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:31.519 So it's been really fun talking to them about this book series. 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:35.599 I mean, what did you ask as well um about the Marcus Rashford books? 00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:36.720 Because you've done those, haven't you? 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:41.680 So the Marcus Rashford

books are like a spin of Scooby-Doo almost. 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:48.559 So these kids are part of the Breakfast Club investigators, and every book they're fighting a monster that they think is real. 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:49.839 It always turns out to not be real. 00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:56.400 And there's always like a really good message in there, like not leaving people out, being kind, like someone was envious and they worked through it. 00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.119 There's always some like really little cute message in there. 00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:02.240 So I'm the third co-author on the series. 00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:03.759 I'm the first girl. 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.279 I'm only girl, I think, because the series is coming to an end, I think, in book 10. 00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:10.960 I'm now working on book nine, which is out in October. 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:13.680 Yeah, and it's a fun series, to be honest with you. 00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:19.279 I think boys love it a lot, obviously, because of Rashford being a footballer. 00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:25.920 But I think there's just quite a lot of positive male energy in the book, and there's monsters and there's an adventure. 00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:29.519 So I think it ticks a lot of boxes for reluctant boy readers. 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:34.160 The font's big and it also like changed the font on words so it's more, it's more eye-catching to look at. 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.000 There's really fun pictures as well. 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:39.599 So yeah, I think it's a really fun, cute book to work on. 00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:41.759 So that's quite a tight deadline, is it? 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:44.400 Turning it round for September, October. 00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:49.359 Yeah, the Rashford deadlines are a little bit insane, they're really tight. 00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:58.160 So this one is out in October, but I found out about because I basically I signed a two-book deal for it and the two books are done. 00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:04.640 And I found out that there was gonna be two more books and they wanted me to do it in March. 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:07.200 At London Book Fair found out, and I was like, okay, great. 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:10.960 But then we didn't hear anything back about it until May. 00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:15.039 And then they were like, a month, is that all right? 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:16.160 And I was like, what? 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:17.599 The deadlines are tight. 00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:19.599 I think my deadline is next week. 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:34.160 I think whether we reach it or not, I couldn't tell you because I'm not near the word count, and it's quite difficult working on an existing series, yeah, because the main core are not my characters. 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:37.920 So when I'm writing it, I'm like, is this how this person would be? 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:42.160 Or should and sometimes I'm questioning like, are they acting in the way they're meant to

be acting? 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:49.839 But obviously, now there's quite a lot of my own characters in there, and I threw in my brother in there because he's a massive Manchester United fan, and he's one that said, You have to take this deal. 00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:56.160 And I threw my nephew in there who got upset he's six because the character of him in the book doesn't look exactly like him. 00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:57.440 He got upset. 00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:58.319 Can you imagine? 00:29:58.319 --> 00:29:59.279 Just say thank you. 00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:02.799 He'll never be in a book again. 00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:05.119 I was just like, oh, is this all we're doing? 00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:05.440 Okay. 00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:07.920 They are fun books, but the turnaround is very quick. 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:22.720 But I'm trying to persuade Rashford team that he should do a book signing at Piccadilly for book 10, which will be next year, and just have the whole thing, get all the authors that worked on it and have a whole well done, 10 books done. 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:24.079 Yeah, that sounds fun. 00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:27.680 That's what I'm trying to do. 00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:32.880 To bring him into the book world, to bring him into the book world rather than to go to the football world. 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:39.759 I think he did it for book one, so I'm like, he can do it for book ten, but so I'm just praying he has a really good World Cup. 00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:45.599 Yeah, yeah, no issues, no drama, he's a success, and then he'll be like Yeah. 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:52.400 It would be nice to do one of those events in a bookshop or in a library rather than in a football setting. 00:30:52.400 --> 00:31:05.759 It just feels that actually what you want to do is to bring those kids who are interested, partly maybe initially from the football point of view, but then to bring them into the book world rather than I agree, for sure. 00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:10.319 I don't know, anonymous suite in a football stadium. 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:13.119 Yeah, I think it'd be going to be a mini tour. 00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:13.519 Yeah. 00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:25.279 Like you did a week, if you had like a week spent, stuck a mini tour, did like a big Piccadilly event, did like an independent bookshop, did a few libraries, did a school, just sort of cute little thing. 00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:26.799 I think that'd be really cool. 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.119 So I'm trying my best to make it happen. 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:30.720 I'm being very annoying, but we'll see how. 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.119 In the meantime, you've got to write book nine. 00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:33.599 Yeah. 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:35.039 Yeah, basically. 00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:36.960 Yeah. 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:43.440 But you'll probably be in a stronger position once you delivered on your deadline for that to persuade them what they should be doing. 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.640

I feel like it's not that hard. 00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:49.599 Everyone should be happy because this is insane. 00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:52.319 The deadlines in particular are actually very quick. 00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:54.240 This one is is just is very quick. 00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:56.480 So it's because it's a national year reading, isn't it? 00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:58.000 They want to get another one out. 00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:00.880 Yeah, oh yeah, I didn't think about that being the reason, actually. 00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.160 And that that is that kind of makes it this year. 00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:07.200 It's yeah, so wish me luck, please, ladies. 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:14.400 And along and alongside that, it says it mentioned on your website you're working your first, we just not adult book, new adult. 00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:15.440 New adult. 00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.559 Which is like a made-up one, yeah. 00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:19.599 The made up one. 00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.480 I wrote an adult book last year, actually. 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:23.599 It's about publishing. 00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:24.640 I thought it was hilarious. 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:26.079 Maybe my age book was hilarious. 00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:30.319 Um, and it got sent out, and then it got the furthest with McMillan. 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:39.839 It went to acquisitions, but I think they couldn't get sales behind it because they said that they don't think publishing books do great, and they thought like yellow face like a unicorn. 00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:41.920 And I was like, I don't, this isn't my area, I don't know. 00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:50.400 So what happened though with that was McMillan then turned around and was like, let's park that for a second, because we still think could work, could be a timing issue. 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:51.839 Let's talk about something else. 00:32:51.839 --> 00:33:01.839 So we end up talking about many things, and then that's all they had an idea which they wanted as an adult book, and I tried to make it work, and I was like, I don't think this works as adult, I think this works more as YA. 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:02.960 They're like, oh, okay, fair. 00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:04.400 What about making this new adult? 00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:06.480 And I was like, what's that we know? 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:07.279 It's not quite adult. 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:18.240 I was like, okay, so yeah, so that's out next September, which I have started, but I haven't worked on it for a minute because I've got to work on Rashford, but that's due in September. 00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:19.359 So I need to work on that. 00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:20.960 You're gonna have a busy summer. 00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:27.200 I know, and August is my birthday month, and I tend to not do anything, so an interesting summer. 00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:32.799 But yeah, but because it's all with McMillan, Rashford, and the new adult, and the McMillan team are very chill. 00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:34.480 They just let us know if you need more time. 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:36.000 They're very relaxed and lovely. 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:42.160 Yeah, I don't think I'll get in like major trouble, but I also don't want to take advantage and make sure I do my best to get the deadline and stuff. 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:43.839 I haven't missed a deadline yet, so I don't want to. 00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:44.640 Okay, yeah. 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:46.160 So I don't know. 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:52.960 And on top of all of this, so all of the various different books you've been doing and all the rest of it, you are involved in lots of other things. 00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:59.440 So we said at the beginning you co-founded Hashtag Press, which was one of the first diverse publishers. 00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:05.440 You've also co-founded the diverse book awards and the Inc prize. 00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:17.360 When you started out, and I think you said when you started writing the Emily Knight books, you wanted to do that because you wanted to read about a strong black female protagonist because you couldn't find one. 00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:24.239 And obviously, a lot of your other initiatives is about diversifying the publishing space for children's books. 00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:28.800 How much do you think the landscape has changed since you started out on that journey? 00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.360 What do you think is going on in that space? 00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:34.719 I think it's changed a lot, if I'm honest. 00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:40.559 I can now very easily find books of black people in the cover, whether that be kids' books or YA. 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:42.159 It's definitely changed a lot. 00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:44.639 I think the main issue is just momentum. 00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:50.880 I think if you keep thinking of diversity as a trend or a tick box, then you're gonna lose momentum at some point. 00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:59.840 And I think why a lot of authors are getting quite frustrated, even though I think from the outside it can look like they're in a bit more of a privileged position because they have an agent, they're published, and blah, blah, blah. 00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:08.639 But I think we all feel a bit sometimes like you're still having to prove yourself a lot, which is incredibly frustrating. 00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:12.480 Or when things happen, like your series is paused, even though it's popular. 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:14.880 Things that happen, we just think, what is going on here? 00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:16.880 And it's incredibly frustrating. 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:25.280 So I don't feel there's as many new voices that I'm seeing coming out from a diverse space as much as there was before. 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:25.599 Yeah. 00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:29.119 Again, I think the momentum has slowed down, which is not cool. 00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:37.840 And I think that's why something like hashtag is good because

you don't have to have an agent to talk to us and we're just basing it just on your book and whether we think it's a good book or not. 00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:42.000 And I think only like one of our authors has an agent, to be fair, out of the 20. 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:46.800 Yeah, and that's why indies are so important because they give people that opportunity that they wouldn't get otherwise. 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:50.079 Because you need to get a big five deal, you need to have a really good agent to get that. 00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:52.239 To get a really good agent, it's really difficult to get a good agent. 00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:52.719 Do you know what I mean? 00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:53.840 Because they're so in demand. 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:55.599 So it's this vicious cycle. 00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:02.320 So if you're then diverse, you're a debut, it's so many things that seem to work against you, which is really unfair. 00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:08.480 And also, I think if you are an established author in a space, you don't want to also become someone's tick box. 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:08.960 You know what I mean? 00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:10.320 Oh, we're a black author. 00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:11.280 Let's call that Viola. 00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:13.199 You don't want to be that person for anyone. 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:18.559 You want to be that person they ask because they like your writing, they like you, all for the right reasons. 00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:21.360 So I think that's the problem, is it's gone very static. 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:25.440 And I just sometimes with publishing, they just always think they've done enough and they've never done enough. 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:26.639 And I think that's the problem. 00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:28.480 They're very quick to be like, oh, well done, guys. 00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:30.400 And it's like, guys, you did the bare minimum. 00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:34.000 Let's try and advance it, not either keep the same energy or go down. 00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:40.000 There's just not enough diverse people in publishing houses in-house, and that's that's that's the biggest problem, isn't it? 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:43.039 I know from my end, my editor left to go to Penguin. 00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:45.760 My ever editor got made redundant. 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:48.559 You know, it's just the spaces aren't great. 00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:54.400 I did find out that my original editor for Rashford is now moving to S and she's fantastic. 00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:59.599 So I'm hoping that they'll allow her to get some really amazing books because she's a really good editor and really lovely. 00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:03.519 But yeah, if you have people know spaces, then it's not helping to find the voices, isn't it? 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:07.679 And it's a vicious cycle, and then it's so boring, I think, at some point. 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:09.840 And you shouldn't, it shouldn't be about that, should it? 00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.719 It should be about the story and the book that you want to write. 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:14.960 And you can feel when you're someone's tick box. 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:20.639 And also, and this is the main thing I think authors who are already out get annoyed about is the marketing publicity. 00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:21.360 It's just nothing. 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:22.639 They don't do anything with your book. 00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:23.760 So then you think, well, what's the point? 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:31.039 We talk about this type of book, and then they don't do anything, and then you see what they do for others, and you just think, why is it not an even playing field here? 00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:32.960 No, I don't have the answers for that one. 00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:35.679 I'm quite good at just going to a different publishing house. 00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:37.119 I'm quite good at just moving along. 00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:40.559 But I have a really good agent, so you know that helps. 00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:46.000 I think if you don't have a good agent or one that will back you and fight with you, it must be very difficult. 00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:46.639 Yeah. 00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:47.440 Very difficult. 00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:51.119 So hashtag is celebrating 10 years this year. 00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:52.800 Do you want to say a bit about that? 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:56.559 Yeah, so we are 10 years old, which is crazy. 00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:58.639 I can't believe that it almost seems fake. 00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:05.840 So 10 years old, and we've got kids' books and middle grade and YA and a small nonfiction list. 00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:09.840 And we're all about diversity and debuts and inclusivity. 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.159 And yeah, it's been a fun ride. 00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:21.519 It's been a hard ride, but it's been fun and just giving those opportunities to these authors who I don't think would have gotten those opportunities because of the way publishing is structured. 00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:22.480 And it's been really cool. 00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:28.239 And I really love when we find a new voice and we're able to publish them and debut them, it's so cool. 00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:31.760 But yeah, hashtag's definitely one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. 00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:37.280 And yeah, now we're in a crowdfunding stage, which wasn't a light decision. 00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.960 I think me and Helen are both very private people. 00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:44.320 We just put our head down and crack on, and we don't like to ask for help. 00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:49.679 And I think it got to a point where we had done a lot for hashtag, and we're like, we I think maybe we need some help. 00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:52.559 And actually, telling people we needed help has helped us more. 00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:56.000 A lot of companies have reached out to be like, oh, we'll help you with this, help you with that.

00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:58.719 And then financially, we did need help. 00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:01.519 When you survive COVID as a small press, it's amazing. 00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:04.880 At some point, that kind of catches up with you a little bit, I think. 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:11.840 I think we're at that stage where it's caught up, and we've seen lots of small presses close around the 10-year mark, which is very scary. 00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:14.480 And we're hoping that won't be us. 00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:17.199 So, God willing, we'll have a great crowdfunder. 00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:18.880 We won't be doing another one. 00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:20.239 This is one and done. 00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:23.840 And we will hopefully be celebrating the next 20 years, God willing. 00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:24.719 Exciting. 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:27.920 And we'll put all the links to how people can get involved with that. 00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:28.800 Thank you. 00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:31.039 It is the national year of reading. 00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:37.519 You've obviously done those in terms of trying to change the world of publishing for children. 00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:42.800 What do you really hope for in terms of what comes out of the national year of reading? 00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:43.840 What are your hopes for it? 00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:52.000 What I would hope with the national year of reading is that we keep up the momentum. 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:58.400 Again, let's not be a tick-box exercise and be like, okay, just this year we'll put in all this effort. 00:39:58.400 --> 00:39:59.920 This needs to continue. 00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:05.440 Because as much as they keep saying kids aren't reading and I go to loads of school visits. 00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:06.800 Kids are reading. 00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:08.320 Boys are reading. 00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:12.159 Boys have said the reason why they like comic books is because they like to look at pictures. 00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:15.039 And as books get older, there's no pictures and they don't like it. 00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:16.159 They've very much said it. 00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:18.800 I don't know who's going to change that, but they have said that. 00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:22.400 So kids are reading and are very involved and interested and stuff. 00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:26.559 So I don't really believe that is necessarily the problem. 00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:31.840 I think the problem I'm seeing is a lot of kids aren't seeing a lot of themselves reflected. 00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:33.679 And that's the biggest issue. 00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:38.960 A lot of these libraries in schools are so diverse, like their shelves are brilliant. 00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:43.440 The librarians are really doing the work, they are fantastic. 00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:48.960 I think they need way more support, like consistent support to keep growing. 00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:55.280 Publishers need to keep giving them more books, sending more authors to their schools because they are doing the work and the kids are fantastic. 00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:57.119 So I don't think that's the problem. 00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:00.159 I honestly think it's just a consistency issue. 00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:04.320 It's the people that they want to push to be the face or something. 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:09.920 And I feel like diversity is important because this one face can't represent everyone. 00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:17.280 You need to have different people for different walks of life, different ages, different races, different backgrounds, because someone's going to relate to them in some way. 00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:22.719 But you can't keep throwing the same blonde in front of everyone and thinking everyone's going to relate. 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:23.760 You can't keep doing that. 00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:27.039 And I don't know how many times publishing needs to be told that, like at some point. 00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:34.559 So I think they just need to keep the momentum going and all these great opportunities and incentives they've been doing, they need to keep up. 00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:35.599 That should be a regular thing. 00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:37.360 It shouldn't be just for this year. 00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:43.519 I know there's been lots of people complaining about the rollout, the national year of reading, not being super clear of what they're doing. 00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:46.320 I definitely know they didn't send stuff to small presses. 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:50.960 There's like these, they sent lots of visuals and PDFs and stuff at the beginning of the year. 00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:55.840 I wish I got sent because of SNS, but I know as hashtag, we didn't get sent it. 00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.159 So it's who are you involving in this campaign? 00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:02.320 You can't involve a select few and ignore everyone if it's a national year of reading. 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:06.960 So again, I think it's always just getting the right people in the right spaces in the right rooms. 00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:10.159 And I think with publishing, it's just not that unfortunately. 00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:15.039 I'm sure there should be someone in the room to say, should we not send this to every single publishing house in the country? 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:15.599 Yeah. 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:16.559 Like, how is that not? 00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:18.239 How is that something we have to think about? 00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:21.519 So some like this question, like, who is in the room making these decisions? 00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:25.519 I saw some people who were like the face of like national year of reading. 00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:27.679 And I was just like, isn't this for kids? 00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:31.280 Why is this person like it just wasn't making sense some of the people they chose? 00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:37.599 If it's for children, like why would you not ask Marcus Rashford to do national year of reading? 00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:39.280 Why wouldn't you ask Robin Stevens? 00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:45.280 Every school I go into, there is a mad Robin Stevens fan in there, like mental Robin Stevens, every school I've gone to. 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:47.119 I was at Robin, I didn't know you were this popular. 00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:47.920 It's crazy. 00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:49.119 Why would you not have her? 00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:50.159 That's crazy to me. 00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:56.480 So sometimes I just think who's in the room thinking of these names and not understanding kids, or maybe go and ask the kids. 00:42:56.480 --> 00:42:59.119 Who would you like to just ask the kids what they want? 00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:00.079 They'll tell you. 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:01.440 That's what I just hope. 00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:10.239 They can really listen to what they did wrong, fix it, but keep the same momentum and energy going for years to come and not just burn out once it gets to December and decide I've done enough. 00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:11.840 Yeah, I think that's what we think. 00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:14.559 It's like the start of something, not the thing. 00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:18.159 But the authors on the ground, librarians, they're just getting done with it. 00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:20.880 But they do it year in, year out. 00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:22.960 I'm gonna say thank you very much. 00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:28.000 It's been great to listen to you, and we look forward to the Marcus Reshre. 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:29.519 And the new adult book. 00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:30.719 The new adult book. 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:31.760 New adult, me too. 00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:35.440 You've hit hitting all of those deadlines, and we look forward to those. 00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:36.800 So thank you very much.