النص الكامل لحلقة Emulsifiers, Stabilisers and Thickeners: The Invisible Architecture

unnecessary chemicals, it makes me laugh. 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:15.680 How do you imagine this situation? 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:29.840 Then as a brand founder, I go to buy unnecessary chemicals, and after a little bit of unnecessary chemicals to add in the formula, believe me, everything costs money. 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:39.280 So when you create your budget, you buy only necessary ingredients, including necessary chemicals. 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:42.800 And in the formula, each ingredient has a place. 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:52.000 Creator of the formula, formulator, cosmetic chemist used these ingredients because they think they are necessary. 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:55.360 So please stop this unnecessary stuff. 00:03:55.680 --> 00:04:22.959 Also, it can be quite a painful question for beauticians, skin practitioners, and even aesthetic doctors, and for us, formulators and brand founders, for people working in support everywhere, because we have this question about this the long chemical names in the ingredient list. 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:31.680 And sometimes these questions are formulated kindly and nicely, but sometimes you get just a lot of unfair criticism. 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:37.759 And uh just a few days ago, once again, we received the message from the client. 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:44.639 This time it was a very thoughtful and kind message, but still she asked to return her product. 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:49.680 She said then the beautician recommended me to try this product. 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:59.920 I was very impressed and I researched it a bit, but when I have looked more closely at the ingredient list, I found a cross-polymer in the formula. 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:07.279 And I understand that cross-polymers may be microplastics, and microplastics, they can be harmful for the environment. 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:13.600 So I don't want to use ingredients or product which can be potentially harmful for an environment. 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:16.319 And the product is completely unopened. 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:18.399 I would prefer to return it. 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:26.480 And sorry, she apologized because she should study the list of ingredients before buying the product. 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:42.319 And that's a kind, nice message, but still I was sad to receive it, and uh I answer like I always do, explaining the whole story behind it because consumers are not foolish. 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:43.920 Quite the opposite. 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:55.040 This woman, she is kind, nice, very attentive, she is very conscious, she cares about the environment, she is concerned about our planet. 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:56.240 So I love it. 00:05:56.480 --> 00:06:05.839 She's trying to make a responsible decision, but that's so much of misleading information in our world. 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:09.120 So it became very difficult. 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:20.000 And actually, a lot of information about this uh functional technical ingredients, uh it is pure fear-mongering. 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:30.079 So let's see, the ingredients this client found it was the accruate C1030, I'll kill aggregate cross-polymer, the full name of it. 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:31.360 So, okay. 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:34.079 Probably you're already frightened, right? 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:42.720 Because it sounds chemical, it may sound alarming, it is a long, unfamiliar chemical terminology. 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:53.839 And today, many of online platforms, so-called ingredient checkers, they use the word polymer as so it automatically means microplastic. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:56.879 And microplastic automatically means danger. 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.120 By the way, I have a surprise for you. 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:02.160 Everything is polluted with microplastic right now. 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:05.120 And it's a huge question. 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:14.000 First of all, no one clearly understands what microplastics does to the biological life on the planet Earth. 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:29.920 We don't see some really alarming changes, but we know that every one of us and every little fish and insect on the planet now has some microplastics circulating in the body. 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:35.839 And on another hand, we don't understand how to put the gene in the bottle. 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:50.639 Because once it was back, and by the way, the big role in the microplastic pollution played this polyetylene and polymer's packaging, which is supposed to be biodegradable. 00:07:50.800 --> 00:08:00.959 Yes, it's biodegraded, and that's why we have microplastics now everywhere in the biological life and in all types of environment in the world ocean. 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:10.399 One of the few water sources not yet polluted by microplastic extensively, there are glaciers in the mountains. 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:17.120 So that's a big problem, and we don't really understand what we do about it. 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:26.800 But sorry to say it, but your personal choice of cosmetic products doesn't make any difference right now. 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:36.879 If you refuse to use products containing polymers inside, it doesn't change the situation. 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:41.279 As sad as it can sound, that's just a reality. 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:45.600 And also cosmetics, it's not that simple. 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:51.039 The word polymer should be properly deciphered. 00:08:51.279 --> 00:09:06.720 First of all, speaking about this specific polymer, the uh concentration which is officially can be used is going up to 30%, even by the uh European law, which is quite strict. 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:12.399 We use it in the concentration attention, 0.1%. 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:17.120 So it's hundreds times lower than even permitted concentration. 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:18.000 It's very low. 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:21.440 We use it as a stabilizer for the structure. 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:25.679 It helps

keep this oil and water motion from separating. 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:34.080 It is a part of this invisible architecture of the formula, like the structural engineering inside the building. 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:39.759 So all this beautiful parts they can function safely and properly. 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:43.679 And also, it's kind of very neutral. 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:46.879 It's a nerd, high molecular weight polymer. 00:09:47.039 --> 00:10:01.440 It doesn't penetrate into the skin, it's never compromised even the damaged stratum corneum, so it can be safely used on the damaged, very dry, irritated, sensitive skin. 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:08.480 And it's really prevent biologically active molecules from penetrating deeper than they can. 00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:13.200 So it's not there to treat the skin, it is just to stabilize the formula. 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:29.440 That's understandable that nobody posts on Instagram something about beautiful rheology filler, and nobody says then oh my god, I love this emulsion because it was so elegantly stabilized. 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:32.559 But it is there are essentials. 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:54.240 And in this specific case, these cross-polymers, they made the product lightweight, stable, predictably penetrating in the skin, and acting properly and beautifully interacting with all targeted structures and virus on the skin. 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:58.000 But environmental question, absolutely valid. 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:04.720 And environmental sustainability and all warrior questions, they matter enormously. 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:10.159 We should ask where the ingredients come from, and we pay a lot of attention to that. 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:16.799 We should ask how ingredients are manufactured, are they biodegradable or not biodegradable? 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:26.159 And once again, behind this biodegradable claim can be the treaty part as well, because look what happened with biodegradable plastic. 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:31.440 Now everything is polluted in microplastics because it's biodegraded so efficiently. 00:11:31.759 --> 00:12:00.399 How they behave in the waste water system, what happens at the ends of the product life, and we, with this cross-polymer, we specifically bank it from the supplier who is specialized in green chemistry, and they guarantee that these cross-polymers are eliminated from the water sources by the modern uh waste cleaning system. 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:03.360 So they are not so completely unsafe. 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:14.159 That's a new wastewater treatment process with a specific membrane, so it doesn't pass directly to the marine or to the water environment, to the natural environment. 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:17.919 But it does not mean that you should not ask questions. 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:23.120 It means that we should ask better questions, best informed questions. 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:33.679 So instead of asking if this ingredient is natural or synthetic, it's better to start what it does into the formula. 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:49.759 And when the name sounds frightening, it's always better to understand what is the concentration, what is exposure, does it penetrate into the skin, how it interacts with the once again wastewater system, is it stable? 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:52.799 Is it evidence of environmental harm and so on? 00:12:52.960 --> 00:13:01.120 If not, you will end with galenic form built from beeswalks, olive oil, and rose water. 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:06.080 And I suppose that's that's not what you dream about. 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:33.840 So it's kind of informed skincare and the understanding of all this hidden architectural part of the formula, it will be the intelligent way to understand better how the formula works and to learn how to read ingredient list, if not on the professional level, but at least on the semi-professional level. 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:40.559 So let's see all the structural architectural ingredients, what they do in the formula. 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:43.840 Let's separate them to the three big groups. 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:46.000 First, emulsifiers. 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:50.720 Emulsifiers help oil and water stay together. 00:13:50.960 --> 00:14:07.279 And it sits on the border between oil droplets and water or water droplets in the oil, allowing these two phases that normally separate from each other, like you always see in the salad dressing, to form a stable cream or lotion. 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:19.600 It is a difference between salad dressing that you shake and which can split off again in a few minutes, and mayonnaise when you whist once and it is stable. 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:23.840 Another group of ingredients, there are stabilizers. 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:30.000 The role of stabilizers is to help the formula to remain uniform over time. 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:37.120 Most of the time, in the emergence, it prevents oil droplets or water droplets from joining together. 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:50.080 It helps to keep powder suspended and evenly distributed in the bottle or in the jar, in water-based and oil-based and emulsions composition. 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:59.120 It reduces separation and it helps the formula to tolerate the storage, the transportation, changes of temperature. 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:07.919 If we don't have stabilizers and the driver will leave the box next to your door, your product will be damaged permanently. 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:15.360 But with stabilizers, it survives, even if it was hot or cold for a short period of time. 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:19.360 And also we have a big family of thickeners. 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:24.159 Also, scientifically, they are called rheology modifiers. 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:28.399 The word rheology simply means the science of flow. 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:36.000 So there are substances modifying how the product flows. 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:39.279 It can turn water into a gel.

00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:42.080 It can make lotion feel creamy. 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:50.960 It can make these magic powders which you wrap on your skin and it transforms to the light-weiled weighted cooling gel again. 00:15:51.360 --> 00:16:01.360 It suspends pigments from uh anti-exfoliating particles from uh droning and uh just flowing on the bottom of the bottle. 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:06.639 It stops the serum from leaking from the bottle and leaking through your fingers. 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:14.799 Also, rheology modifiers they define how product penetrates into the skin. 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:26.240 So this thickener, it's not simply there to make the product thick, it is there to make product work. 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:32.240 And it does a lot of different roles and plays. 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:38.639 And now we have the uh new category of polymeric rheology modifiers. 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:46.799 Once again, polymers, so very probably on this ingredient checkers website, you will see them they're nasty and you should not use them. 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:48.480 But they are great. 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:57.360 They create such stability and they help to get not only sensory performance but also higher efficiency of the product. 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.799 So there are chemical names on the list. 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:23.920 So if you imagine you're holding some jar or bottle of cream in your hands, and when you read the label, you see the list of ingredients with water and maybe high onic acid, nice name it, ceramites, some olive oil, peptide, antioxidants, and some natural preservatives like citric acid or kimchi extract, why not? 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:25.839 So it looks beautiful. 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:42.240 And you ask yourself, why, in between all these nice natural names which I understand, I see this cross polymers and some sorbitine oleates and some uh chemical names which I don't understand. 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:43.359 That's why. 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:53.680 Because oil and water naturally separate, because product wants to destabilize itself, entropy is winning. 00:17:54.079 --> 00:18:07.440 It's the question of this architecture which should be stable for 30-36 months of the shelf life for every product. 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.039 An emulsifier might be very traditional. 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:19.359 The most traditional in the kitchen is egg yolk, so phospholipid called lecetin, which means the base of the egg yolk. 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:30.400 In the formal, you will see glycerosterate, setiere uh alcohol, which is not alcohol, it's a fatty alcohol which is very different from ethanol. 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:41.200 Glycerosterate and all the derivatives of steric acid create this nice feeling of vanishing cream, which penetrates into the skin with a rubbing quite quickly. 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:50.720 It can be polyglyceryl esters, it can be some sugar-derived emulsifiers, which are pretty natural and uh quite nice. 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:58.160 And the precise choice affects how this product will feel from your skin. 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:03.039 Will this emulsion be rich and heavy or whiteweight? 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:04.799 Will it feel powdery? 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:11.680 Will your foundation modify your skin or create this wet finish and extreme woe? 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:15.839 Will this cream be silky, fresh, protective? 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:22.799 Speaking about the stabilizers, they may be once again fatty alcohol, which play for both teams. 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:27.359 It can be wox, it can be biswalks, by the way. 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:37.279 Natural, we have one product in Middle made with beeswalks until recently, and we changed it for another stabilizer. 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:42.480 And it was quite a painful solution because I love beeswalks. 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:57.200 But it was the only product which we constantly had questions from people who follow vegan diet, because when you have beef product in the food or in the cosmetic, it's not suitable for vegans. 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.400 So I was a little bit tired to answer this question. 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:11.599 Despite I think then uh when we are buying bees box from uh beef producer, we support beef's population, actually. 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:24.079 So that's the whole story behind the ingredient, and it helped the formula survive traveling, and helped the formula live this long and happy shelf life. 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:40.319 And among the thickeners you can find carbomare, xantan gum, sclerotum gum, acacia gum, but also chemical names such as hydroxyal cellulose, other derivative of cellulose, by the way, not so unnatural. 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:43.440 Cellulose it made from the tree. 00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:48.319 Carogenin made from Irish moss algae. 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:58.559 But also acrylic polymers, which I've been speaking uh previously, so some small amount of these cross polymers uh can really help. 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:11.200 Some are synthetic, some are plant-derived, some are produced through the fermentation process, and some are used to create transparent gels, and others some creamy, clody, richer texture. 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:17.200 So, for example, if we can, if it a carbomer, which doesn't sound so awful, right? 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:27.279 Because it's a short name, but carbomer still, it is a cross-linked acrylic polymer, so at the end of the day, still frightening. 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:41.519 And it can build viscosity and it's mostly used to create clear gel, so it's largely used as a base for gels imbibing different types of shade masks. 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:42.880 And we use it too. 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:44.000 It works great. 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:53.440 Zanton gum, it is a polysaccharide which is perfectly natural, also derived from trace, and it's made by bacterial fermentation. 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:59.279

Some gums can be seen as prebiotics under the some condition. 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:20.400 But the point is it's not to memorize every name, it just to understand that so-called inactive ingredients, which you could see previously as unnecessary chemicals, they are not only necessary, they are absolutely essential if you want to get a great product in your hand. 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:30.160 And this uh controversial argument about natural versus synthetic, it's kind of a false argument. 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:53.759 Because me personally, creating the their formulation, working with uh cosmetic chemists on the formulation, I all if I can choose, I will choose plant-derived ingredients or biotechnologically produced ingredients because of sustainability, because I think it is better for the environment. 00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:11.920 But it is not always an option because some of the active ingredients are quite complex, and it's not only the ready-to-use product is stabilized or preserved or needs some architecture inside. 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:16.079 All ingredients also need an architecture. 00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:33.119 And many of active ingredients, which we call like plants extract derived from the plant, it's coming in the ready-to-use stable form, which can contain four, five, six, seven different substances. 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:48.480 One, it is a plant extract, and another five ingredients which have been used to stabilize this plant extract and to get it the necessary level of the preservation. 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:54.640 So the story the story behind it is quite complicated. 00:23:54.880 --> 00:24:13.599 Also, the source that makes a difference because lecithin may come from sunflower, may come from soy, glycerin can be chemically synthesized, it can be pure vegetable glycerin, polyglyceryl emulsifier can be vegetable derived as glycerin as well. 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:23.119 Some uh emulsifier with a frightening name like non-ionic emulsifiers, for example, very popular sucrose stearate. 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:28.000 It's made from the natural sugar and natural fatty acin, but it sounds chemical. 00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:40.960 And actually, the sugar side is attracted to the water, fatty side is attracted to the oil, it makes a perfect emulsifier, but still it doesn't look so nice as lecetin in the list of ingredients. 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:47.680 So the questions that matters are: is the material safe in the concentration used? 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.920 Does it work in this particular formula? 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:57.039 Is it compatible with other ingredients, active and functional? 00:24:57.279 --> 00:24:58.240 Is it stable? 00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:01.200 Is it appropriate for this skin condition? 00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:05.039 And obviously, what is the environmental safety profile? 00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:12.960 And finally, does it make the ready product to perform as intended? 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:22.079 Because you could use nice named and dream about the effect described in the publisher paper. 00:25:22.240 --> 00:26:00.000 But if this nice Namid does not penetrate into the targeted wire, or if the product containing biocinamid didn't survive until the end of the shelf life, and surprise, specifically for nice named, I uh remember I read the research when uh independent laboratory took niacinamide-based product for the testing and found then the concentration of the nice namid in the ready product sometimes starts to decrease two or three weeks later after the product was manufactured. 00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:04.319 So in three years, it's probably no traces of niacinamide in this product. 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:08.000 Stabilization and preservation is super important. 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:17.279 Product is not more intelligent because it is natural, and more intelligent when it's formulated intelligently. 00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:23.279 What is the connection between all these chemical names and the skin microbiome? 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:39.279 As a kind of naive basic point of view, uh which unfortunately I meet quite often, people think that if you have some chemical names on the label, this product will be harmful for the microbiome. 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:44.240 As you can guess, that's not the fact. 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:52.319 Emulsifier, stabilizer, and thickeners do not usually have some direct microbiome claim, except for a few of them. 00:26:52.559 --> 00:27:14.079 For example, these different gums derived from the tree, they can act as prebiotics because of the ability to hold the water on the skin surface, additionally to the stabilizing action, and also being friendly to some beneficial bacteria living in our skin. 00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:33.440 So the stable, comfortable formula, when it supports the skin hydration, when it is not irritating for the skin and helps to repair and to maintain the healthy skin barrier, you can call it microbiome friendly. 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:36.079 It is absolutely microbiome friendly. 00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:47.599 If the formula is disrupting for skin health, if it irritates the skin, everything could create redness, irritation, faking, tightening, uh painful effect. 00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:49.359 It's not microbiome friendly. 00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:52.799 The first signs and you microbiome is unhappy. 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:56.960 Happy skin, happy microbiome, and vice versa. 00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:02.160 And these active ingredients, they are not designed for an active longevity. 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:10.720 But active longevity skincare is not possible to create without this architectural support. 00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:15.920 So please don't be frightened about these long chemical names. 00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:19.200 Don't think they are unnecessary chemicals. 00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:21.119 It's unfair to them. 00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:25.920 If you have any question, and I suppose you have, it was quite a controversial episode. 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:30.559 Please leave comments wherever you are listening to our podcast. 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:33.599 Subscribe to the Skin We Live In podcast. 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:41.519 Subscribe to our socials, share this episode with your friends if they are frightened of chemical names. 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:46.720 And stay with us for the next episode about skincare ingredients. 00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:51.920 That's it for this episode of The Skin We Live In. 00:28:52.160 --> 00:29:01.119 I hope this conversation had made skincare feel a little clearer and helped you look beyond individual ingredients to the bigger picture. 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.720 The purpose of the product and the formula that brings everything together. 00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:14.799 Share it with someone who loves skincare science and leave a review wherever you listen. 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:18.160 It truly helps more people find the show. 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:19.440 I am Dr. 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:20.799 Tina Medder. 00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:22.319 Thank you for listening. 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:27.200 And until next time, please take good care of the skin you live in.