النص الكامل لحلقة Immortality

00:04:14.560 Yeah. It's very prominent. So we're going to 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:16.680 kind of break this into two sections. The first 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:19.300 thing we're going to talk about is just the movies 00:04:19.300 --> 00:04:23.370 in the game as they're presented. And then we'll 00:04:23.370 --> 00:04:26.550 start switching over to some of the more metatextual 00:04:26.550 --> 00:04:28.990 stuff that's going on in the background. So let's 00:04:28.990 --> 00:04:31.149 just go in a nice chronological order. So the 00:04:31.149 --> 00:04:34.350 first movie that we see Marissa star in is called 00:04:34.350 --> 00:04:39.350 Ambrosio. It is based on a book, a real life 00:04:39.350 --> 00:04:43.589 book called The Monk. And Marissa in this is 00:04:43.589 --> 00:04:47.370 supposedly, when she auditions, just under 18. 00:04:47.769 --> 00:04:52.149 It does have very... Hollywood at the Times. 00:04:52.189 --> 00:04:56.050 The movie was filmed in 1978 in the context of 00:04:56.050 --> 00:05:00.149 the game. 1970, right? 1969 and a little bit 00:05:00.149 --> 00:05:03.910 into 70. Yeah. She just wraps filming at the 00:05:03.910 --> 00:05:05.910 end and then goes on The Tonight Show and she's 00:05:05.910 --> 00:05:13.110 20. Yeah. So early 70s and it's the Ambrosio. 00:05:13.149 --> 00:05:15.069 It's interesting because Ambrosio is probably 00:05:15.069 --> 00:05:20.189 the biggest movie of the three movies. Yeah. 00:05:20.459 --> 00:05:23.439 Oh, yeah. The other two have problems. Yeah. 00:05:23.500 --> 00:05:26.040 So just to give a little bit of context, I did 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:29.079 talk to my fiance, who is an English teacher, 00:05:29.180 --> 00:05:32.439 just to get a little bit of context about the 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:35.620 book, The Monk, as far as the history. It was 00:05:35.620 --> 00:05:39.399 one of the first novels of the Gothic genre. 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:43.540 It is considered a foundational text of that 00:05:43.540 --> 00:05:46.740 genre, but it came around during the period of 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:53.079 British Romanticism. like counter culture to 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:55.860 kind of the things that were going on in books 00:05:55.860 --> 00:05:58.800 and stuff at the time this had to be the most 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:02.139 scandalous oh yeah it was a big deal text ever 00:06:02.139 --> 00:06:06.779 yeah considering it was written before 1800 and 00:06:06.779 --> 00:06:10.160 has all of this stuff just in it yeah and in 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:12.579 fact in fact there are more things in the book 00:06:12.579 --> 00:06:15.279 that are I don't know if I want to say worse 00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:17.040 because the things that happen in the text of 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:19.779 the movie are pretty bad, but there's more of 00:06:19.779 --> 00:06:22.680 it in the book. If anything, the game is being 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:25.279 just a touch modest, which is crazy to think 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:28.939

because you see there's very numerous graphic 00:06:28.939 --> 00:06:33.459 depictions of rape and blasphemy and abuse and 00:06:33.459 --> 00:06:38.100 murder. Demon summoning. Things that would be 00:06:38.100 --> 00:06:42.740 outlandishly uncouth in 17 -whatever. This book... 00:06:42.910 --> 00:06:45.490 Written before Frankenstein makes Frankenstein 00:06:45.490 --> 00:06:49.529 look pretty tame. Yeah. Quaint by comparison. 00:06:49.529 --> 00:06:52.050 It was critical of the hierarchy of the Spanish 00:06:52.050 --> 00:06:56.029 church at the time. So somewhat blasphemous at 00:06:56.029 --> 00:06:59.490 that point. There were attempts to censor the 00:06:59.490 --> 00:07:03.300 book by the authorities at the time. but people 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:06.939 just continued to get copies of it anyways. It 00:07:06.939 --> 00:07:09.060 was so bad that to the point that for the fourth 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:12.199 edition of the book, the original author made 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:15.579 it this like apology to his family for it being 00:07:15.579 --> 00:07:19.220 such a controversial text that he self -censored 00:07:19.220 --> 00:07:21.899 a lot of what was in it and actually like changed 00:07:21.899 --> 00:07:25.279 a lot of things or like, you know, simmered down 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:27.959 the language so it wouldn't be like as crazy. 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:31.579 That's an insane switch up. Yeah. Just given 00:07:31.579 --> 00:07:35.990 how, graphic and grotesque it is to walk it back 00:07:35.990 --> 00:07:39.790 yeah i feel like now you know i've i'm not alive 00:07:39.790 --> 00:07:43.209 in spain in 1700 or whatever whatever but i feel 00:07:43.209 --> 00:07:46.089 like once the the cat is out of the bag in regards 00:07:46.089 --> 00:07:48.110 to you writing the sorts of things that are depicted 00:07:48.110 --> 00:07:51.689 here you you're ideologically probably never 00:07:51.689 --> 00:07:53.750 going to be repented for it i'm very surprised 00:07:53.750 --> 00:07:55.529 to hear that this guy walked this back yeah well 00:07:55.529 --> 00:07:58.899 i feel You know, I don't know enough about the 00:07:58.899 --> 00:08:01.660 specific history of this time to like really 00:08:01.660 --> 00:08:04.779 be saying this, I guess. But I just think it's 00:08:04.779 --> 00:08:08.500 so interesting how brazen some of this stuff 00:08:08.500 --> 00:08:12.699 is. Like, you know, this is Catholic priest is 00:08:12.699 --> 00:08:15.939 corrupt, which is like passe. Well, not passe. 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:19.319 I mean, it's not even just that, right? It's 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:24.970 like it's Catholic priest. in power abuses his 00:08:24.970 --> 00:08:27.329 power, which is a thing that we are all like 00:08:27.329 --> 00:08:33.279 pretty familiar with nowadays. But during the, 00:08:33.379 --> 00:08:39.279 like in the late 1700s, you outlandish. I'm sure. 00:08:39.580 --> 00:08:42.500 Yeah. Sorry. I got, I got my film years jumped 00:08:42.500 --> 00:08:49.039 by 10. So, uh, Ambrosio was 1968. Um, so to me, 00:08:49.100 --> 00:08:53.039 the story of Ambrosio, as it's told, in the game 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:56.259 not as the monk the book but within the context 00:08:56.259 --> 00:08:59.919 of the game it really is a story of the relationship 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:06.799 between uh marissa marcel arthur fisher and sofia 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:11.419 morgana well i mean john's also there a lot that's 00:09:11.419 --> 00:09:14.039 true but well mostly towards the end yeah but 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:15.759 like when you're thinking of when you're thinking 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:19.320 of like the real moments that have like the most 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:23.639 to say it's this character that is this sort 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:27.799 of inspired by or stand in guy for alfred hitchcock 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:31.100 he's this visionary director and he's like kind 00:09:31.100 --> 00:09:34.100 of a pervert and he's kind of abusive and he's 00:09:34.100 --> 00:09:37.000 weird in a way that's never super addressed and 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.279 there's this other woman that wanted maria's 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:42.879 part so badly and she heavily resents it it's 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.700 very clear right you know and like that that 00:09:45.700 --> 00:09:49.100 is like the pulp that is like the the meat of 00:09:49.100 --> 00:09:52.200 it to me is like this this situation these three 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:54.259 have going on and it's important to note that 00:09:54.259 --> 00:09:57.759 like marissa is this like young innocent woman 00:09:57.759 --> 00:10:01.100 you know she's never acted before the extent 00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:05.559 of her experience as you know a perfect like 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:08.039 a career person as she's done some modeling and 00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:12.200 she was in one commercial so she is a very young 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:14.940 uncorrupted mime And I was going to say like, 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.899 and like Sophia went so hard in her audition. 00:10:17.980 --> 00:10:19.919 Yeah. And she's like a very, she's like kind 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:22.500 of a counter where like, she's not, it's not 00:10:22.500 --> 00:10:24.700 like she's been around the industry for a significant 00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:27.840 period of time, but she clearly like knows her 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:31.379 way around a lot more than Marissa. So there 00:10:31.379 --> 00:10:35.500 is like this underlying tension of like, Oh, 00:10:35.620 --> 00:10:38.940 we are like corrupting Marissa into the industry. 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.490 The, the, The most indicative part of the three 00:10:43.490 --> 00:10:45.490 of these people's relationship that highlights 00:10:45.490 --> 00:10:49.090 kind of what I'm getting at is in Marissa's casting, 00:10:49.330 --> 00:10:52.850 like her audition tape, where there's this several 00:10:52.850 --> 00:10:55.389 really tense,

really uncomfortable minutes where 00:10:55.389 --> 00:10:57.690 Arthur Fisher's like, oh, how old are you, dear? 00:10:57.929 --> 00:11:00.970 And she goes, I'm 17 and 10 months. Something 00:11:00.970 --> 00:11:04.350 to keep in mind for the dear listener as we talk 00:11:04.350 --> 00:11:06.970 about this entire part of Ambrosio. That's insane. 00:11:07.850 --> 00:11:11.360 Arthur Fisher met Marissa. When he was in his 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:14.899 50s and she's 17, the footage of Ambrosio is 00:11:14.899 --> 00:11:17.740 littered with him making innuendo and really, 00:11:17.820 --> 00:11:20.179 really irresponsible, sexually perverse remarks 00:11:20.179 --> 00:11:23.200 to her and talking about corrupting her and turning 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:27.139 her into a harlot or a whore or a temptress. 00:11:27.179 --> 00:11:31.879 And it's so uncomfortable. And it's so saying 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:35.500 something very pointed about... directors in 00:11:35.500 --> 00:11:37.720 Hollywood and you know we live in a world that's 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:40.360 like post me too and Harvey Weinstein and it's 00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:42.360 not like they're not like shocking anyone with 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:46.080 this but it's still it's like it's viscerally 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:48.580 uncomfortable I'm not saying the shock factor 00:11:48.580 --> 00:11:51.159 is what makes it bad it's just that like seeing 00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:56.169 it like truly sincerely depicted is gut -wrenching. 00:11:56.169 --> 00:11:59.529 It's very sickening. Because it's one thing to 00:11:59.529 --> 00:12:03.789 hear all of these stories post seeing a movie 00:12:03.789 --> 00:12:08.230 you enjoy versus watching people making a movie 00:12:08.230 --> 00:12:11.909 and hearing it, even if it's acted and presented 00:12:11.909 --> 00:12:16.389 in the game as a story being told, right? It 00:12:16.389 --> 00:12:21.299 feels gross. This game is really good at making 00:12:21.299 --> 00:12:24.309 you feel like... pretty uncomfortable about some 00:12:24.309 --> 00:12:27.669 things you are seeing It's a very unique situation 00:12:27.669 --> 00:12:31.850 because oftentimes the human urge is to want 00:12:31.850 --> 00:12:34.350 to be a fly on the wall. There's a lot of scenes 00:12:34.350 --> 00:12:36.809 that feature Arthur Fisher prominently. I would 00:12:36.809 --> 00:12:39.169 rather be anywhere else. I mean, obviously, I 00:12:39.169 --> 00:12:40.350 don't want to turn the game off or anything, 00:12:40.470 --> 00:12:43.889 but they're very good at wrenching this discomfort 00:12:43.889 --> 00:12:47.090 from me, the viewer, when Arthur Fisher looks 00:12:47.090 --> 00:12:49.289 to Maria and he goes, do you know what a blowjob 00:12:49.289 --> 00:12:52.169 is? Do you know what an aphrodisiac is? Have 00:12:52.169 --> 00:12:54.330 you ever ridden a man? And it's like, oh my God, 00:12:54.409 --> 00:12:57.289 dude. And it's interesting because like, you 00:12:57.289 --> 00:13:00.350 know, when artists talk about art, good art is 00:13:00.350 --> 00:13:02.870 supposed to make you uncomfortable. That is like 00:13:02.870 --> 00:13:07.570 a key factor in creating art is like you're supposed 00:13:07.570 --> 00:13:10.990 to take people out of their comfort zone. It's 00:13:10.990 --> 00:13:12.490 like growth, right? It's an aspect of growth. 00:13:12.669 --> 00:13:15.730 And so it's interesting because like depicting 00:13:15.730 --> 00:13:18.129 these things that are like things that have definitely 00:13:18.129 --> 00:13:21.570 happened on sets of movies, it shows you kind 00:13:21.570 --> 00:13:24.450 of this, I think, kind of sort of. corrupted 00:13:24.450 --> 00:13:27.409 mindset that artists can get where like to make 00:13:27.409 --> 00:13:30.309 art that makes people uncomfortable they have 00:13:30.309 --> 00:13:33.490 to make the art itself uncomfortable and like 00:13:33.490 --> 00:13:35.570 the creation of the art has to be uncomfortable 00:13:35.570 --> 00:13:39.029 and you know that's not like the direct intention 00:13:39.029 --> 00:13:42.129 obviously people you know people in positions 00:13:42.129 --> 00:13:44.889 of power in hollywood just have been abusing 00:13:44.889 --> 00:13:48.899 that for years and years and years but I think 00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:52.340 that is like a microcosm of it is like, oh, you 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:55.460 know, we're seeing that sort of in reverse here. 00:13:56.429 --> 00:13:58.809 Speaking of uncomfortable, there's so much fucking 00:13:58.809 --> 00:14:02.049 in this game. Oh, yeah. Oh, my. I'm I would consider 00:14:02.049 --> 00:14:04.529 myself kind of a prude as far as these things 00:14:04.529 --> 00:14:07.990 go. I'm like kind of anti horny. Holy Jesus. 00:14:08.789 --> 00:14:13.090 There is so much sex. Yeah. Simulated, but like 00:14:13.090 --> 00:14:15.889 not with like a. There's an air of believability 00:14:15.889 --> 00:14:20.629 to it. Because there's desire between people. 00:14:21.789 --> 00:14:24.909 It's not as if like, oh, well, they're just pretending 00:14:24.909 --> 00:14:27.230 to fuck because that's their job. There's that 00:14:27.230 --> 00:14:30.429 one scene where Sophia's like, actually, let 00:14:30.429 --> 00:14:32.909 me show you how to get the best angle so that 00:14:32.909 --> 00:14:36.730 you can see her tits. And she gets on top of 00:14:36.730 --> 00:14:40.190 Ambrosio. And you're like, no, this is real. 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:43.179 This is actually how Sheila feels about things 00:14:43.179 --> 00:14:45.879 a little bit. The workplace depicted in Ambrosio 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:49.259 in the film is a nightmare, but you can tell 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:51.960 there's a very real human chemistry between everyone 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:54.840 involved in some way. It's not always positive. 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:58.679 It's not always healthy, but the actors feel 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:02.090 for each other. blood pumping

through their hearts 00:15:02.090 --> 00:15:04.389 you know what i mean they are they are so connected 00:15:04.389 --> 00:15:07.309 to the project as artists and as people with 00:15:07.309 --> 00:15:09.690 each other apart from the project it's it's frankly 00:15:09.690 --> 00:15:12.789 mind -blowing how the performers when we're two 00:15:12.789 --> 00:15:15.669 levels abstracted from ambrosio the movie in 00:15:15.669 --> 00:15:19.029 the workplace and shooting of ambrosio and then 00:15:19.029 --> 00:15:20.789 outward from that in the fictional video game 00:15:20.789 --> 00:15:22.909 depicting these things yeah that they're able 00:15:22.909 --> 00:15:27.259 to act these things so like so convincingly so 00:15:27.259 --> 00:15:30.120 well i was so floored oh yeah yeah the acting 00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:35.600 is incredible especially here like i just feel 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:39.139 like these are real people really trying to make 00:15:39.139 --> 00:15:42.240 a movie and there's like real drama going on 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:44.840 like sofio and the guy in the guy playing ambrosio 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:49.259 are fucking it's like it's there's so much story 00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:54.059 and people really connecting with each other 00:15:54.059 --> 00:15:58.320 to make something going on in this and even like 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:02.080 the conflict between people like john and arthur 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:04.740 butting heads and things like that come across 00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:08.580 as so genuine it's it's a very enjoyable thing 00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:11.519 to watch i think and i don't i don't want to 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:13.299 derail us too much i do want to mention here 00:16:13.299 --> 00:16:15.980 reading reviews of this game is infuriating because 00:16:17.110 --> 00:16:19.769 No, no. Speak up on it, Ken. Get it off your 00:16:19.769 --> 00:16:23.309 chest. So there's so many things. I'm going to 00:16:23.309 --> 00:16:26.610 derail us a little bit here. There are so many 00:16:26.610 --> 00:16:28.710 things. Sam's just looking at his notes like, 00:16:28.750 --> 00:16:34.789 God damn it. Going on about this game that are 00:16:34.789 --> 00:16:39.009 better than, I think, actual game director. Actual 00:16:39.009 --> 00:16:41.549 game director. Sam Barlow. Sam Barlow. Director 00:16:41.549 --> 00:16:46.090 of this game. Yes. I really enjoyed her story. 00:16:46.710 --> 00:16:49.730 I haven't played Telling Lies. Have either of 00:16:49.730 --> 00:16:56.490 you? No. This just feels so much more and so 00:16:56.490 --> 00:16:59.289 much more involved and such a great way of presenting 00:16:59.289 --> 00:17:02.669 a game as FMV. And the way you engage with the 00:17:02.669 --> 00:17:05.940 game. is so much more engaging and interesting 00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:08.759 and I think intuitive than in her story where 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:10.880 you're just typing words and trying to figure 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:13.660 out which words you need to say. It's a very 00:17:13.660 --> 00:17:15.660 small change, but it makes it feel a hundred 00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:19.640 times more tactile and gamey. And that's the 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:22.099 frustrating thing is reviews of this game say 00:17:22.099 --> 00:17:24.059 lots of things. One, they say the acting's bad 00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:27.039 and I'm like, I think you've never watched a 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:30.500 good movie. Two, they say the gameplay is bad 00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:34.740 or non -existent and I'm like, You just want 00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:38.859 to throw ball or shoot gun. Listen, man, the 00:17:38.859 --> 00:17:43.819 unwashed masses are good to play FIFA every year 00:17:43.819 --> 00:17:47.940 and then take a short break to play Marvel Midnight 00:17:47.940 --> 00:17:51.079 Suns, a game that only a complete rube would 00:17:51.079 --> 00:18:01.500 spend time on. I'm sorry. I will say that I already 00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:05.869 get kind of... put off by online discourse of 00:18:05.869 --> 00:18:09.569 both video games and movies because I feel like 00:18:09.569 --> 00:18:12.329 people don't understand what is good about either 00:18:12.329 --> 00:18:14.650 of those things most of the time. And now I'm 00:18:14.650 --> 00:18:17.289 having to deal with both of them at the same 00:18:17.289 --> 00:18:21.970 time. It's a complex of things made in a lab 00:18:21.970 --> 00:18:25.029 to piss you off. Listen, Buck, we kind of share 00:18:25.029 --> 00:18:26.890 a brain. We can say it. We're getting a little 00:18:26.890 --> 00:18:29.069 crotchety about it. We're getting a little crotchety 00:18:29.069 --> 00:18:31.970 about it. People don't know a good movie game. 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:35.619 movie and game together and separately if it 00:18:35.619 --> 00:18:38.119 slapped them in the face right and they say stupid 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:40.460 things about it yeah and it's annoying as hell 00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:44.900 but anyway back to ambrosio and uh something 00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:47.579 maybe funny and talking about the fucking thing 00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:51.779 the first like the first nudity i got was marissa 00:18:51.779 --> 00:18:54.740 uh ripping her tit out to stab herself when she 00:18:54.740 --> 00:18:59.759 was yeah and i was playing this uh with my wife 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:05.339 watching i was like oh Another thing that is 00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:09.119 a little uncomfortable when it's like, I've seen 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.559 this woman at 17 and she does not look any different. 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:14.759 Holy gee. I mean, I get it's not a sexual scene, 00:19:14.900 --> 00:19:17.440 but you see her tits in a lot of very sexual 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:21.900 contexts also. Yeah, it even made me feel uncomfortable 00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:25.640 doing that when I know she's not under it. The 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:27.299 actor's not underage. Like a 30 -year -old woman.

00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:31.920 Right? Once you process that she is that young, 00:19:32.019 --> 00:19:34.519 and it's funny because they kind of spoil how 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:37.559 young she is before you experience all the Arthur 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.980 stuff. I didn't even process it at first. And 00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:44.000 then I'm like, wait. Oh, were you talking about 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.460 the night show scene? Yeah. Where she's like, 00:19:46.539 --> 00:19:49.640 I'm 20. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm picking up what 00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:51.299 you're putting down. I got that first before 00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:54.500 I got any of the like real. any of the nudity 00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:56.859 any of arthur doing what he was doing and i was 00:19:56.859 --> 00:19:59.000 like i mean i think you're touching on something 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:00.900 that this game does really well is that there's 00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:04.640 a lot of moments where what is shocking or what 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:06.799 is revealed is this like subtle thing that kind 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.720 of hangs with you and then You don't receive 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:12.359 it as a sort of epiphany later. You receive it 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.000 as like something very small that changes it 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:17.099 very subtly and like kind of leaves you sick 00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:19.279 to your stomach a little bit. And that happened 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:21.660 to me probably a hundred times. It's actually 00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:24.660 insane. There's a company that makes jigsaw puzzles 00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:28.619 where the puzzle you put together is a continuation 00:20:28.619 --> 00:20:31.720 of what is depicted on the box and not a replica 00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:36.160 of it. This game is kind of like that where you're 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:39.619 getting... the pieces and every person that plays 00:20:39.619 --> 00:20:41.440 it's going to get all the pieces in a different 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:43.819 order just based on what directions they choose 00:20:43.819 --> 00:20:47.619 to pursue things in. But as you gather more pieces 00:20:47.619 --> 00:20:51.099 together, you get to experience the context for 00:20:51.099 --> 00:20:53.000 things for the first time, even though all the 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.319 information was there all along. And that's really 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:58.480 cool. Yeah. Any other big statements we want 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:02.099 to make about Ambrosio? I think that if you are 00:21:02.099 --> 00:21:06.039 someone who is who has played this game, which, 00:21:06.099 --> 00:21:08.660 uh, Mason will have maybe said this before, like, 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:11.240 and I want to re, I want to emphasize this because 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:13.279 I'm thinking about those reviews again, please, 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:16.240 before we go to the rest of this stuff, if you 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.940 have not

played this video game, play the video 00:21:18.940 --> 00:21:21.519 game first. Oh my God. Yeah. This is like sort 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:24.500 of on the level of like outer wilds. Yeah. Where 00:21:24.500 --> 00:21:27.339 it's like, please God, like experiencing it is 00:21:27.339 --> 00:21:29.920 definitely different than watching it and hearing 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:32.779 about it. You cannot be a fan of this video game 00:21:32.779 --> 00:21:36.259 without playing it. Don't, don't listen, man. 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:39.660 Listen, man, you know, I agree. Like I agree 00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:43.539 with a lot of what you do ideologically. Don't 00:21:43.539 --> 00:21:45.980 get, don't get like insane Twitter people showing 00:21:45.980 --> 00:21:49.039 up to my house. The geolocation is going to be 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:52.079 metadata onto the sound file and they're going 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:54.680 to be able to find me using some crazy CIA shit. 00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:57.779 All right. And you're going to get me shot. One 00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:00.339 K -pop person. One little last little thing I 00:22:00.339 --> 00:22:02.440 want to bring up is that towards sort of the 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:05.680 unraveling of Ambrosio, is that there is this 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:09.339 not like traitor revealed kind of plot to it, 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:13.519 but it turns out that the character that Marissa 00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:16.680 is playing the whole time is actually just Satan. 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.160 And I do just want to bring that up for the context 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:21.859 about things we're talking about later. They 00:22:21.859 --> 00:22:24.700 even throw a misdirect at you. Yeah. That's so 00:22:24.700 --> 00:22:27.339 easy to find where she, sorry, there's an actor 00:22:27.339 --> 00:22:31.200 with her in a scene that is also Satan. Yeah. 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:33.839 That is, oh my God, I just realized that that, 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:37.500 Fucking foreshadows the twist. Yeah, it does. 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:38.579 That's why I wanted to bring it up. I'm going 00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:40.319 to vomit. That's why I wanted to bring it up. 00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:42.380 God, it happened again. The thing I was saying, 00:22:42.500 --> 00:22:46.720 in the book, Marissa, or not Marissa, sorry. 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:49.740 The character. The character is a demon that 00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:52.859 Satan is using. But I think in the movie, it's 00:22:52.859 --> 00:22:55.160 more implied that she is just Satan. I think 00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:57.779 she explicitly does say that at one point. It's 00:22:57.779 --> 00:22:59.900 like, I am the king of darkness or whatever. 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.299 Prince of darkness. Eventually, we see the wrap 00:23:03.299 --> 00:23:07.640 party for Ambrosio. We learn that something has 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:10.440 happened and Ambrosio is not releasing. The eventual 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:14.059 thing we learn is that Arthur Fisher stole the 00:23:14.059 --> 00:23:16.759 negatives for the movie. It's never explicitly 00:23:16.759 --> 00:23:24.059 said why, but my common belief is that John basically... 00:23:24.609 --> 00:23:27.289 started taking over the movie towards the end 00:23:27.289 --> 00:23:30.170 of filming and arthur fisher didn't want to release 00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:32.089 something that was not completely reflective 00:23:32.089 --> 00:23:35.049 of him as a director and so he stole the negatives 00:23:35.049 --> 00:23:36.849 to keep the film from being released does that 00:23:36.849 --> 00:23:39.789 feel yeah i think he was getting he was getting 00:23:39.789 --> 00:23:43.029 very frustrated with john towards the end and 00:23:43.029 --> 00:23:46.289 i think john was putting too much of himself 00:23:47.180 --> 00:23:50.559 Yeah. Into the shots and stuff, especially like 00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:52.759 during the scene we were just describing where 00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:55.359 he's like a naked woman isn't intimidating. Yeah. 00:23:55.619 --> 00:23:57.900 When John just wanted to see her as a naked. 00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:00.319 Well, I think the biggest, I think the biggest 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:05.359 scene is when her and Ambrosio are having sex. 00:24:06.259 --> 00:24:09.299 And she starts looking directly at the camera 00:24:09.299 --> 00:24:11.619 and John's like, no, it's good. It's modern. 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:14.559 And Arthur is like, it's not supposed to be modern. 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:16.779 It's like a period piece. We're doing a modern 00:24:16.779 --> 00:24:19.799 take on it, but it's still like, you know, and 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:22.740 like, you know, this was a movie that was already 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:25.619 going to extremely push the boundaries in the 00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:28.460 night and the late 1960s. Right. You know, we 00:24:28.460 --> 00:24:31.940 have this air promiscuity in America that's coming 00:24:31.940 --> 00:24:34.079 up. We have the hippie movement is about to come 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:36.900 up. There is. Things are changing culturally, 00:24:37.059 --> 00:24:39.819 but a movie like this would have been an enormous 00:24:39.819 --> 00:24:42.579 cultural touchstone at the time just because 00:24:42.579 --> 00:24:47.259 of how devious it was. Someone trying to come 00:24:47.259 --> 00:24:50.460 in and even further push the envelope on that 00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:53.660 really says something. But what ends up happening 00:24:53.660 --> 00:24:57.940 is Marissa ends up getting attached to John through 00:24:57.940 --> 00:25:02.539 this interest of making something modern together. 00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:06.039 And so eventually we see... marissa's second 00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:11.079 movie uh minsky which is sort of a detective 00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:16.200 noir piece it's all filmed it's implied to be 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:20.579 a film in 1970 so it's a very

gritty dark you 00:25:20.579 --> 00:25:23.160 know it's like a it's like a dick tracy like 00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:25.420 a romance thriller yeah that's like got shades 00:25:25.420 --> 00:25:30.200 of noirness to it The interesting thing is that 00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:33.380 all these movies pivot very heavily between tones 00:25:33.380 --> 00:25:35.900 and settings and all this other stuff. So we 00:25:35.900 --> 00:25:39.700 get to see a lot of contrasts between them. Minsky 00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:42.240 is interesting because you were talking about 00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:45.440 things that frustrated you about people talking 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:47.079 about this game. One of the things that frustrated 00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:49.720 me most about this game is that one of the things 00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:52.339 I saw people talking about is how this game is 00:25:52.339 --> 00:25:55.759 just about misogyny and Hollywood and how... 00:25:56.690 --> 00:25:59.789 you know bad it is and how like this is a story 00:25:59.789 --> 00:26:02.130 that gets told all the time i don't think that's 00:26:02.130 --> 00:26:04.910 the main that's not the main message of the game 00:26:04.910 --> 00:26:08.630 that is the main message of ambrosio yeah i agree 00:26:08.630 --> 00:26:11.190 i was like yeah maybe for one third of the game 00:26:11.190 --> 00:26:12.930 well so that's the interesting part is minsky 00:26:12.930 --> 00:26:16.190 is almost about marissa reclaiming her sexuality 00:26:16.190 --> 00:26:20.880 because the whole movie is a femme fatale you 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:23.559 know she is very self -empowered it's interesting 00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:24.980 because like the difference between the femme 00:26:24.980 --> 00:26:27.240 fatale that is portrayed in ambrosio because 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:29.819 it's also a femme fatale that she's playing in 00:26:29.819 --> 00:26:32.779 that movie and the femme fatale we see in minsky 00:26:32.779 --> 00:26:36.819 are very different because since she co -wrote 00:26:36.819 --> 00:26:39.539 it this is her putting herself in the character 00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:42.339 rather than it being a reflection of the person 00:26:42.339 --> 00:26:44.960 of the character that like arthur arthur smith 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:47.779 is trying to shape her and to be Sorry, Arthur 00:26:47.779 --> 00:26:52.539 Fisher. I can even elaborate a little more, but 00:26:52.539 --> 00:26:56.759 Minsky is so much about art as a concept. This 00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.500 is theoretically the most artistic of the three 00:27:00.500 --> 00:27:03.140 movies that we see. This is the most artistic 00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:08.150 film. There's also an immediate reaction. to 00:27:08.150 --> 00:27:10.750 what they were filming in italy with ambrosio 00:27:10.750 --> 00:27:13.829 because they come to new york and suddenly just 00:27:13.829 --> 00:27:17.049 like john just like john wanted it's a much more 00:27:17.049 --> 00:27:19.670 modern piece there's themes of queer liberation 00:27:19.670 --> 00:27:24.190 there's themes of gender being played with in 00:27:24.190 --> 00:27:28.170 ways that were probably not super box office 00:27:28.170 --> 00:27:30.210 friendly at the time they're literally just people 00:27:30.210 --> 00:27:33.990 saying We hate cops. I was just about to say 00:27:33.990 --> 00:27:37.369 that. There's distrust of law enforcement in 00:27:37.369 --> 00:27:39.910 those oppressed communities. There's depiction 00:27:39.910 --> 00:27:44.349 of art and artists in a way that is much more 00:27:44.349 --> 00:27:50.029 real and also much more recognizable as a movie 00:27:50.029 --> 00:27:54.640 from the 1970s would depict them. reaction to 00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:57.279 the works of warhol yeah and and people like 00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:00.339 that like beatniks post beatnik movement uh rather 00:28:00.339 --> 00:28:04.119 than a modern take which is stuck in the trappings 00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:07.279 of 50s cinema well and it's implied that some 00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:09.920 of the actors in the movie were direct friends 00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:13.559 with andy warhol yeah the the group that hangs 00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:16.579 out at the warehouse which is also andy warhol 00:28:16.579 --> 00:28:19.460 thing the warehouse was like his like big art 00:28:19.460 --> 00:28:21.859 studio art movement kind of thing that he had 00:28:21.859 --> 00:28:26.420 and they do such a good job in mince in all of 00:28:26.420 --> 00:28:29.519 these things of where they're the sub stories 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.980 of the actors experiencing this these things 00:28:32.980 --> 00:28:37.880 are also things messing with the themes of the 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.359 movie yeah where uh the guy originally cast as 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.759 minsky uh doesn't love modern art yeah doesn't 00:28:45.940 --> 00:28:49.519 love modernism at all he doesn't like this movie 00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:52.579 yeah at the end of it yeah and you know he ends 00:28:52.579 --> 00:28:55.819 up leaving obviously and you have the character 00:28:55.819 --> 00:29:00.319 of carl who is a you know man's man straight 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:05.059 man uh surrounded by people who are not that 00:29:05.059 --> 00:29:10.500 through both the filming of the movie the people 00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:13.799 making the movie, and the characters in the movie. 00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:18.019 And his character is forced to engage with those 00:29:18.019 --> 00:29:22.279 things during the movie. Yeah, in fact, and tell 00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:24.119 me if this is anything, because I'm kind of formulating 00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:29.299 this on the fly right now. It's almost a dichotomy 00:29:29.299 --> 00:29:33.660 of the reactions to the modern movement. Because 00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:36.019 in one way, you have the guy originally playing 00:29:36.019 --> 00:29:39.289 Minsky. who does these things like have sex on

00:29:39.289 --> 00:29:43.529 camera and is portrayed with gay people. Like 00:29:43.529 --> 00:29:46.289 both actors who play Minsky and the detective 00:29:46.289 --> 00:29:50.589 are said to be like pretty conservative people 00:29:50.589 --> 00:29:53.509 with pretty conservative ideals. And then the 00:29:53.509 --> 00:29:57.650 actor for Minsky rejects it outright. He eventually 00:29:57.650 --> 00:30:01.390 like claims that the whole project is the musings 00:30:01.390 --> 00:30:04.250 of a pervert and things like that. And then in 00:30:04.250 --> 00:30:07.859 a lot of ways, Hold on. Carl Greenwood kind of 00:30:07.859 --> 00:30:11.079 accepts the sort of modern living because he 00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:13.680 sort of, you know, the cross -dressing doesn't 00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:18.319 seem to bother him. And he adapts to the sort 00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:22.579 of way of life and the being around a diverse 00:30:22.579 --> 00:30:26.599 group of people in a much different dichotomous 00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:30.099 way. Yeah. It's funny because I really don't 00:30:30.099 --> 00:30:31.599 feel like I have a whole lot to say about... 00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:34.619 minsky itself right but more of just like it 00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:38.039 being an evolution of the the difference between 00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:42.460 someone making art on a commercial scale versus 00:30:42.460 --> 00:30:46.019 making art in this like indie personal kind of 00:30:46.019 --> 00:30:49.220 space i actually have a lot to say about minsky 00:30:49.220 --> 00:30:52.079 during the second part of this podcast is what 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:55.720 i'll say okay yeah minsky gave me the strongest 00:30:56.660 --> 00:30:59.480 feelings i think a lot of reactions of the game 00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:01.700 but i can't unless we discuss like the thing 00:31:01.700 --> 00:31:04.259 well we'll get there we can get to i mean i'm 00:31:04.259 --> 00:31:06.779 not um but you know this isn't the meat we're 00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:09.619 not in the juice of half an hour in listeners 00:31:09.619 --> 00:31:12.299 we're not at the meat you have no idea how insane 00:31:12.299 --> 00:31:15.900 it's gonna get so at the end of minsky minsky 00:31:15.900 --> 00:31:21.150 or carl green would get shot by a prop gun Which 00:31:21.150 --> 00:31:23.210 Alec Baldwin style. I was going to say, when 00:31:23.210 --> 00:31:25.369 did the Alec Baldwin thing happen? It was after 00:31:25.369 --> 00:31:28.029 this. It was around this time. This game came 00:31:28.029 --> 00:31:30.349 out in 2022. So there's no way. I don't think 00:31:30.349 --> 00:31:33.950 they would have known about it. Okay. Surely 00:31:33.950 --> 00:31:36.069 they would have been filming for years. As a 00:31:36.069 --> 00:31:38.569 result, Carl Greenwood dies. And so they stopped 00:31:38.569 --> 00:31:42.410 filming the movie. And so Marissa goes into hiding 00:31:42.410 --> 00:31:45.390 for some number of years. And then eventually 00:31:45.390 --> 00:31:50.880 comes back. in 1999 to star in another film called 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:55.200 two of everything which is a much more i hate 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.960 to say this and I don't mean this in a derogatory 00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.859 sense towards the game of Mortality, but the 00:32:00.859 --> 00:32:04.759 movie they're making is very schlocky. It's not 00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.259 good. It's kind of bad. It's very bad, and there 00:32:07.259 --> 00:32:10.619 are textual reasons why the quality of the script 00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:13.279 is worse, and it's not because they were doing 00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:15.619 worse writing during Two of Everything. It's 00:32:15.619 --> 00:32:17.319 because they're trying to convey something about 00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:19.759 the people making the movies when they were making 00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:23.059 Two of Everything. It is worse. It's just a worse 00:32:23.059 --> 00:32:24.759 movie. If it had come out, it would have been 00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:28.220 like... date night yeah or horrible bosses it's 00:32:28.220 --> 00:32:32.000 got this kind of attitude and sort of ethos about 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:34.940 it but it's it's at a different point in the 00:32:34.940 --> 00:32:38.500 people making its careers and something fundamentally 00:32:38.500 --> 00:32:40.759 has changed about them making their art worse 00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:45.140 and more pandering and less a statement about 00:32:45.140 --> 00:32:48.420 themselves and things like that right right and 00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:53.930 you know it i do like how it is obvious how much 00:32:53.930 --> 00:32:57.650 worse everything is because of if you pay attention 00:32:57.650 --> 00:33:01.609 to the clappers they're called clappers the clappers 00:33:01.609 --> 00:33:03.869 very funny name they they're having to do so 00:33:03.869 --> 00:33:06.230 many takes i was just about to say they're always 00:33:06.230 --> 00:33:08.950 on like take five or something and ambrosia it 00:33:08.950 --> 00:33:10.829 feels like they're always on like take two or 00:33:10.829 --> 00:33:12.789 take one and in two of everything they're like 00:33:12.789 --> 00:33:18.089 uh okay uh filming day 21 take five and it and 00:33:18.089 --> 00:33:21.079 they're they just like don't Everyone feels so 00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:24.099 soulless in it. Obviously, like I was saying, 00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:27.579 it's on purpose, but it's very striking. The 00:33:27.579 --> 00:33:30.279 most interesting part is clearly they're trying 00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:34.460 to do something profound. The movie is very much 00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:39.279 meant to be what is nowadays seen as this critic 00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:43.430 -friendly... anti -consumerist schlock that we 00:33:43.430 --> 00:33:47.029 see out of that we see people say Hollywood is 00:33:47.029 --> 00:33:51.089 all these days because obviously like the purpose 00:33:51.089 -->

00:33:53.730 of like one of the main themes of the movie is 00:33:53.730 --> 00:33:56.720 like all rich people are evil and inherently 00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:59.980 bad. And, you know, you can't trust them and 00:33:59.980 --> 00:34:02.500 they'll kill you and stuff. This is the kind 00:34:02.500 --> 00:34:05.779 of movie that people who use the term Oscar bait 00:34:05.779 --> 00:34:09.960 unironically think most movie, most like artistic 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:14.260 movies are like. Yeah. Very ham -fisted. It's 00:34:14.260 --> 00:34:17.039 almost, in a sense, the movie is almost two movies 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.039 where like the first half is this very like buddy 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:24.539 comedy. Oh, you know. rich girl, poor girl, Freaky 00:34:24.539 --> 00:34:27.159 Friday kind of thing. And then the second half 00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:30.900 of the movie is like, oh, rich people bad. Rich 00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:32.539 people are going to ruin everything. They're 00:34:32.539 --> 00:34:34.699 going to kill you. That's the kind of thing that 00:34:34.699 --> 00:34:36.820 people are like, oh, critics will love this because 00:34:36.820 --> 00:34:39.619 the movie ends up not being what you think it's 00:34:39.619 --> 00:34:42.559 going to be about in this feel -good story. It's 00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:44.980 not that at all. It feels weird to say this. 00:34:45.019 --> 00:34:48.559 I did not see the twist exactly coming. yeah 00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:53.059 like fully because and and that's like a kind 00:34:53.059 --> 00:34:56.320 of like thing unique to probably the order you 00:34:56.320 --> 00:35:00.139 see things it is and like i think it's also kind 00:35:00.139 --> 00:35:02.380 of poorly written like the script is not very 00:35:02.380 --> 00:35:04.880 good and not the script of the game but the script 00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:07.800 of the movie too of everything where you know 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:10.019 depending on where you get dropped in you don't 00:35:10.210 --> 00:35:13.989 It's so confusing. A lot of the times in Minsky 00:35:13.989 --> 00:35:16.630 or Ambrosio, you'll get dropped into things and 00:35:16.630 --> 00:35:19.090 you might not have the context for stuff, but 00:35:19.090 --> 00:35:21.389 the things that are happening in the scene make 00:35:21.389 --> 00:35:24.190 sense. But sometimes you'll get dropped into 00:35:24.190 --> 00:35:25.829 scenes of two of everything and you'll be like, 00:35:25.989 --> 00:35:29.090 I don't know what the fuck is going on. Yeah, 00:35:29.090 --> 00:35:31.849 yeah, yeah, yeah. For a long time, I had to try 00:35:31.849 --> 00:35:36.030 to figure out who was actually dead. Yeah, yeah. 00:35:36.469 --> 00:35:41.679 And it's not. The thing you get confused about 00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:43.800 is that the person who's dead was not the famous 00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:46.119 person. Right, yeah. And there's a couple scenes 00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:49.179 to tip you off to that, but because

the characters 00:35:49.179 --> 00:35:52.619 keep calling her the other person's, I can't 00:35:52.619 --> 00:35:53.840 remember their names off the top of my head. 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:57.460 It's Heather and Marcy? It's something really 00:35:57.460 --> 00:35:59.519 close to Marissa, which is what always made it 00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:02.199 hard. Something along those lines, but everyone 00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:04.119 calls her Heather still because they think it's 00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.559 Heather. The other thing about assessing two 00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:08.380 of everything is I think this is the movie where 00:36:08.380 --> 00:36:11.500 we have the actual least amount of movie. Yeah. 00:36:11.539 --> 00:36:16.099 So it's like. Yeah. Most of the experience Marissa 00:36:16.099 --> 00:36:20.719 and John had was filming movies in reverse. And 00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:23.639 so that's also what started happening here is 00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:27.440 like most of the scenes we have actual footage 00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:29.800 on set of are things that have happened late 00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:32.219 in the film. Like really, really, really late 00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:36.150 in the film. Except for the scene in the trailer 00:36:36.150 --> 00:36:39.510 with the pool shoot. Still good performances 00:36:39.510 --> 00:36:42.929 by the actors selling bad performances. Yeah. 00:36:43.550 --> 00:36:46.050 Because I have to imagine that's got to be very 00:36:46.050 --> 00:36:49.769 tricky. Yeah. That's got to be very against all 00:36:49.769 --> 00:36:55.280 of their sort of... In voice acting, there is 00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:58.800 a tricky thing that's done where in cartoons, 00:36:58.980 --> 00:37:01.380 characters will be doing an impression of another 00:37:01.380 --> 00:37:05.460 character. So it's not, oh, this is, you know, 00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:07.559 if it's like SpongeBob, this isn't Tom Kenny 00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:11.219 doing his Patrick impression. This is Tom Kenny 00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:14.500 as SpongeBob doing a Patrick impression. Yeah, 00:37:14.500 --> 00:37:17.219 yeah. So it's like one degree even further separated. 00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:21.099 Yeah, and these actors and actresses, they have... 00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:24.099 four two of everything really nail that in a 00:37:24.099 --> 00:37:29.460 weird disconcerting way it's it's sick yeah so 00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:32.539 let's so let's get into the meat the bones of 00:37:32.539 --> 00:37:36.320 this game as you're playing you start to notice 00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:40.320 that there are these weird you know depending 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:42.079 on who you are there are different things that 00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:44.639 you'll notice first but the first thing i noticed 00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:48.989 at least were these weird like audio glitches 00:37:48.989 --> 00:37:51.489 where the audit, there would be like weird parts 00:37:51.489 --> 00:37:54.349 of the audio track where there would just be 00:37:54.349 --> 00:37:57.070 this like kind of white noise that like pushes 00:37:57.070 --> 00:37:59.630 its way in. Kind of, kind of like a jump scare. 00:37:59.710 --> 00:38:03.230 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like a stink, not a sting, 00:38:03.329 --> 00:38:05.869 but I know a water phone or whatever. Yeah. And 00:38:05.869 --> 00:38:07.449 at first you kind of just brush it off and you're 00:38:07.449 --> 00:38:09.730 like, ah, it's probably just like a glitch in 00:38:09.730 --> 00:38:12.559 the footage or whatever. But then, you know, 00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:16.440 you happen to be rewinding a clip because you're 00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:18.340 trying to like go back to a particular moment 00:38:18.340 --> 00:38:21.679 you think you missed. And this weird like. You're 00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:24.780 like, what the hell is that? Yeah. Well, so one 00:38:24.780 --> 00:38:26.940 of two things happen. Either you see this weird 00:38:26.940 --> 00:38:30.340 inter. Overlay. Overlapped, interposed footage 00:38:30.340 --> 00:38:33.780 over top. But you kind of shrug it off at first 00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:35.599 because you know what that means. Or you just 00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:39.000 get warped into it. did a backwards long jump 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:40.900 and you got warped into something else entirely. 00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:46.329 The first time that happened for me, because 00:38:46.329 --> 00:38:49.550 I remember this because of how like fucking weirded 00:38:49.550 --> 00:38:53.130 out I was, was during the like Marissa snake 00:38:53.130 --> 00:38:57.969 scene. Yeah. where she's where i think it's after 00:38:57.969 --> 00:39:00.230 ambrosio gets bitten and she's like grabbing 00:39:00.230 --> 00:39:03.869 the snake and i'm rewinding and i see the like 00:39:03.869 --> 00:39:07.190 i thought at first it was like like supposed 00:39:07.190 --> 00:39:09.409 to be like a reflection on the screen or something 00:39:10.309 --> 00:39:12.829 It took me an embarrassingly long amount of time 00:39:12.829 --> 00:39:16.150 to find out that if you drag during those, that 00:39:16.150 --> 00:39:18.650 you can get the image to be more defined and 00:39:18.650 --> 00:39:21.750 even see an entire clip that's not there that 00:39:21.750 --> 00:39:23.909 is different than the rewind clips that you run 00:39:23.909 --> 00:39:28.030 into. Sam can attest to this. I don't think it's 00:39:28.030 --> 00:39:29.969 embarrassing. how long it took for you because 00:39:29.969 --> 00:39:33.190 it probably took until my third or fourth discreet 00:39:33.190 --> 00:39:35.650 clip where I would play them backwards, see the 00:39:35.650 --> 00:39:37.889 interlaced photo and I would go, there's something 00:39:37.889 --> 00:39:40.309 saying there's something here. I don't, and say, 00:39:40.349 --> 00:39:41.670 you know, he's not telling me anything cause 00:39:41.670 --> 00:39:43.929 he's not trying to, you can't just like tell 00:39:43.929

--> 00:39:45.389 someone how to play the game. It would take away 00:39:45.389 --> 00:39:48.250 a lot, but I, you know, until I got to one where 00:39:48.250 --> 00:39:50.750 it just like shoots into the, without interlacing, 00:39:50.809 --> 00:39:54.030 I would come across these that had the, the one 00:39:54.030 --> 00:39:56.750 that you can kind of slowly dip into. And I would 00:39:56.750 --> 00:40:00.900 just be like, There's something here. I don't 00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:04.000 know. Just like never able to get into it. The 00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:07.239 actual thing, the actual story that's going on. 00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:09.840 Hold on. Let's take a breath. Take a beat. We're 00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:12.340 about to say something fucking insane. Yeah. 00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:15.079 Especially if you haven't played the game. Listeners, 00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:18.199 last warning. Go play the game. I don't even 00:40:18.199 --> 00:40:20.380 know what the right advice here is. This is going 00:40:20.380 --> 00:40:22.480 to sound bananas. So the actual thing that's 00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:25.469 going on is that there is, well. There is no 00:40:25.469 --> 00:40:28.369 Marissa Marcel in the context of the game you 00:40:28.369 --> 00:40:31.789 are playing. Marissa Marcel has been dead for 00:40:31.789 --> 00:40:35.070 50 years by the time the events of the game start. 00:40:35.230 --> 00:40:41.909 There are two immortal beings who the rules of 00:40:41.909 --> 00:40:45.730 their abilities are never given any like hard 00:40:45.730 --> 00:40:49.929 terms or anything. Which, good. Yeah. Good. You're 00:40:49.929 --> 00:40:52.829 kind of just left to behold the spectacle of 00:40:52.829 --> 00:40:55.170 things that they can do. But one of the things 00:40:55.170 --> 00:40:57.230 that they can do is that they can consume human 00:40:57.230 --> 00:41:01.889 beings and then essentially shapeshift into those 00:41:01.889 --> 00:41:06.369 bodies and take over as if they were inhabiting 00:41:06.369 --> 00:41:10.030 them. And this happened to Marissa before the 00:41:10.030 --> 00:41:13.289 events of the game. And she was literally found 00:41:13.289 --> 00:41:18.889 in a field dying during World War II in France. 00:41:21.050 --> 00:41:24.329 The Germans were invading, and the one came across 00:41:24.329 --> 00:41:26.210 Marissa and was like, wow, she's really beautiful, 00:41:26.250 --> 00:41:29.469 and took her into a barn and ate her. And there 00:41:29.469 --> 00:41:33.570 are these two beings, and it is implied that 00:41:33.570 --> 00:41:36.250 there are more or were more. There were more. 00:41:36.369 --> 00:41:38.590 There were more. I think at this point, it's 00:41:38.590 --> 00:41:42.130 pretty hard implied that they're the last two. 00:41:42.349 --> 00:41:47.579 Yeah, and that they exist mainly. Their immortality 00:41:47.579 --> 00:41:49.820 mainly has to do with art and the creation of 00:41:49.820 --> 00:41:53.179 art and how human beings

tell stories are like 00:41:53.179 --> 00:41:55.800 the two main things they talk about or are concerned 00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:58.539 with as immortal beings. Well, and so I think 00:41:58.539 --> 00:42:00.480 it's important to note that the game tells you 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:05.340 that humans are masters of space, whereas these 00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:08.820 immortal beings are masters of time. So whereas 00:42:08.820 --> 00:42:11.960 humans exist in space, they exist in time, which 00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:14.179 is why you find them when you are rewinding clips. 00:42:14.860 --> 00:42:17.900 And the thing that I love the most about all 00:42:17.900 --> 00:42:21.719 of the movie analysis we just did is that all 00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:26.380 of those movies are things that are conflicts 00:42:26.380 --> 00:42:30.460 or interactions between those two immortal beings. 00:42:30.820 --> 00:42:36.340 Yeah. They are inhabiting people. At least one 00:42:36.340 --> 00:42:39.179 person. We'll get into it. They are each inhabiting 00:42:39.179 --> 00:42:41.760 at least one person on the set. of every one 00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:44.699 of the movies and constantly like fighting with 00:42:44.699 --> 00:42:48.420 each other and all kinds of ridiculous things 00:42:48.420 --> 00:42:50.820 are happening. But it's at its lowest during 00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:52.920 Ambrosio because really the other one doesn't 00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:56.420 show up until pretty late in production. Yeah. 00:42:56.699 --> 00:43:01.820 Ambrosio is more about Marissa finding to use 00:43:01.820 --> 00:43:08.079 as a vessel to do what the ones have been trying 00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:11.619 to do, which is elevate humanity. right right 00:43:11.619 --> 00:43:14.500 like this game is a game about a lot of things 00:43:14.500 --> 00:43:19.219 but one of the many things it's about is these 00:43:19.219 --> 00:43:23.000 two beings the one and the other one that's what 00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:25.360 they're called that's their names this isn't 00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:27.400 us like they're just making distinctions whatever 00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:32.489 uh falling sort of not out of love, but sort 00:43:32.489 --> 00:43:37.710 of drifting apart as beings, as egos. Yeah, they 00:43:37.710 --> 00:43:40.869 drift apart in a philosophical sense. Well, and 00:43:40.869 --> 00:43:43.769 there's like one very big moment about this early 00:43:43.769 --> 00:43:48.150 on where they're both on the talk show and the 00:43:48.150 --> 00:43:49.989 one is like... You say early on, it's like one 00:43:49.989 --> 00:43:52.929 of the last things I saw. Yeah. It can be at 00:43:52.929 --> 00:43:55.489 somewhere. It's early on in the context of like... 00:43:55.639 --> 00:44:01.579 I found that interview thing so early, I barely 00:44:01.579 --> 00:44:03.860 understood. That was like one of my first ones 00:44:03.860 --> 00:44:07.420 as well. I was like, what the hell is... I found 00:44:07.420 --> 00:44:10.119 that interview before I figured out how to find 00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:11.920 the hidden clips that you have to scrub into. 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.579 That's insane. We're recording this on Wednesday. 00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:18.960 I found that Monday at like 11. So in that interview, 00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:21.019 they're literally like... The one is like, yeah, 00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:23.619 I want to try to help humanity be something more. 00:44:23.699 --> 00:44:25.719 And the other one's like... She wants to help 00:44:25.719 --> 00:44:28.039 humanity. I don't. And he looks like a bird. 00:44:28.780 --> 00:44:31.900 Yeah. Yeah. He's just like a bird. It's not explained 00:44:31.900 --> 00:44:35.610 ever at all. And also... I don't get the sense 00:44:35.610 --> 00:44:38.730 that he's saying I want to hinder humanity. It's 00:44:38.730 --> 00:44:40.769 just that he's very ambivalent. He's become very 00:44:40.769 --> 00:44:43.769 uninterested because of all of their other attempts 00:44:43.769 --> 00:44:47.809 seeming to fail. Heavily implied that one of 00:44:47.809 --> 00:44:50.630 which was one of them embodying Jesus of Nazareth. 00:44:50.829 --> 00:44:54.670 No, not embodying him. Oh, sorry, just was. Jesus 00:44:54.670 --> 00:44:57.250 of Nazareth and attempted to enlighten humanity. 00:44:57.650 --> 00:45:01.969 In fact, it was literally them saying, they admit 00:45:01.969 --> 00:45:04.230 at one point they... tried to come up with the 00:45:04.230 --> 00:45:06.670 greatest story, which obviously Christian is 00:45:06.670 --> 00:45:09.510 called. The Bible is the greatest story ever 00:45:09.510 --> 00:45:11.730 told. There are multiple references to the Garden 00:45:11.730 --> 00:45:15.489 of Eden that you can find. That's why they're 00:45:15.489 --> 00:45:18.409 naked a lot. Enacting the Garden of Eden. The 00:45:18.409 --> 00:45:21.210 other one holds a snake and an apple in a lot 00:45:21.210 --> 00:45:24.030 of clips, and I'm just kind of now putting together 00:45:24.030 --> 00:45:26.630 that those are Garden of Eden references. It's 00:45:26.630 --> 00:45:29.769 the fruit of knowledge. The fruit of knowledge 00:45:29.769 --> 00:45:34.059 of good and evil. Put it in the group chat. We'll 00:45:34.059 --> 00:45:35.940 get to this when we talk about our one moments, 00:45:36.019 --> 00:45:37.920 but I put it in the group chat this morning. 00:45:38.059 --> 00:45:40.360 Like, holy shit, the writers of this game are 00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:45.119 so smart. Like, way, way smarter than any game 00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:47.119 writer needs to be. When I said a second ago 00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:49.719 that this game is about a lot of things, it is 00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:53.699 about more than we could reasonably or responsibly... 00:45:53.940 --> 00:45:56.300 chit -chat about in the runtime. While we're 00:45:56.300 --> 00:45:58.019 tapped into that, there is one thing I want to 00:45:58.019 --> 00:45:59.719 bring up, which I

always found really interesting 00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:02.880 about like what actually happened during Jesus's 00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:06.320 story as it was by the one and the other one. 00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:09.239 Yeah. And there's this one clip where the one 00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:11.480 is like the one thing everyone gets, you know, 00:46:11.480 --> 00:46:13.900 people change the story of the Bible through 00:46:13.900 --> 00:46:16.840 translations and all this other stuff. But the 00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:18.760 one thing that always bothers me is that people 00:46:18.760 --> 00:46:21.320 say that there were two Marys. And I was like, 00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:23.880 what did... What does she mean by that? Because 00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:27.219 in the Bible, it's like Mother Mary and Mary 00:46:27.219 --> 00:46:33.219 Magdalene, who is Jesus' lover. Yeah. So is it 00:46:33.219 --> 00:46:36.980 implied that in the original story that Jesus' 00:46:37.219 --> 00:46:40.639 lover was his mom? I don't know. As they told 00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:43.780 it? I don't know. I don't know. I don't think 00:46:43.780 --> 00:46:47.070 there's enough information in the game. decipher 00:46:47.070 --> 00:46:51.050 that i thought this game is a lot of i'm gonna 00:46:51.050 --> 00:46:53.030 make a lot of these statements part of what this 00:46:53.030 --> 00:46:55.389 game is about is like the limitation of what 00:46:55.389 --> 00:46:58.809 women can be and what women are depicted as in 00:46:58.809 --> 00:47:01.650 stories and i think that was one of their ways 00:47:01.650 --> 00:47:04.630 of touching on that is being like the human beings 00:47:04.630 --> 00:47:06.610 when they tell the story of jesus of nazareth 00:47:06.610 --> 00:47:09.769 they limit what the woman is in the story to 00:47:09.769 --> 00:47:13.960 being the mother or the lover or the one who 00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:16.019 found the body or whatever. And I think that 00:47:16.019 --> 00:47:17.760 was like one of their ways of touching on that 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.119 theme. When also she literally gets crucified. 00:47:20.420 --> 00:47:22.559 Yeah, she was the one that got crucified because 00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.860 she was Jesus. Yeah. But, you know, in the context 00:47:25.860 --> 00:47:30.400 of the films, you know, so Minsky, you know, 00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:34.199 has been to be this big artistic set piece for 00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:37.940 which Marissa, the one, is going to be a sounding 00:47:37.940 --> 00:47:41.380 board. But, you know, it all falls apart because... 00:47:41.980 --> 00:47:44.179 The one has this realization that like humans 00:47:44.179 --> 00:47:46.340 are always making things while they're in decline. 00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:49.380 And, you know, there is a peak to things and 00:47:49.380 --> 00:47:52.840 it's possible that John's peak was and would 00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:55.780 have been Ambrosio if it was, if it was his project 00:47:55.780 --> 00:47:58.920 and now making Minsky something that he is wholly 00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:01.300 in charge of. He's not able to like sculpt it 00:48:01.300 --> 00:48:04.570 into something that's real. Yeah. And. What we 00:48:04.570 --> 00:48:07.969 really find out about Minsky is the story that 00:48:07.969 --> 00:48:11.909 Minsky is presenting is the story that I think 00:48:11.909 --> 00:48:17.570 the one has created to deal with her losing herself 00:48:17.570 --> 00:48:22.670 during this movie. I don't know how unlimited 00:48:22.670 --> 00:48:25.570 their time travel and time manipulation powers 00:48:25.570 --> 00:48:30.559 are. but the movie is about the artist girl killing 00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:35.320 her artist lover because she wants to create 00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:40.119 and be, and the artist lover is not letting her 00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:45.199 do that, and the one literally kills both of 00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:48.679 the things. Yeah, she kills both. She kills the 00:48:48.679 --> 00:48:51.300 other one. And she kills John. And she kills 00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:56.630 John during... And worth stating that both of 00:48:56.630 --> 00:48:58.969 them were, it's not, neither of them were accidents. 00:48:59.050 --> 00:49:03.050 Both of them were intentional. Yes. And getting 00:49:03.050 --> 00:49:06.409 to that realization when I played this game was 00:49:06.409 --> 00:49:09.090 like, when I was piecing the story together, 00:49:09.170 --> 00:49:14.170 I was like, holy shit. That was kind of my one 00:49:14.170 --> 00:49:17.210 moment, really, is figuring all of that out. 00:49:17.289 --> 00:49:20.949 Because there's so much violent stuff happening 00:49:20.949 --> 00:49:25.010 in Minsky. There is the story violent stuff of 00:49:25.010 --> 00:49:28.409 the sex suffocation, murder, and penis removal. 00:49:28.829 --> 00:49:33.869 There is the pretty disturbing kind of rape scene 00:49:33.869 --> 00:49:37.769 that happens in the bathroom between the one 00:49:37.769 --> 00:49:41.510 and the other one. And then... you have this 00:49:41.510 --> 00:49:45.409 scene that leads to John's murder where, I'm 00:49:45.409 --> 00:49:47.250 trying to remember correctly, they are acting 00:49:47.250 --> 00:49:50.130 out the scene, right? They're acting out the 00:49:50.130 --> 00:49:53.829 scene in the movie of, help me out here. So during 00:49:53.829 --> 00:49:57.949 the scene where Carl slash the other one gets 00:49:57.949 --> 00:50:04.860 shot, it's the overweaved audience, the film 00:50:04.860 --> 00:50:07.940 people are seeing, the people recording the movie 00:50:07.940 --> 00:50:11.239 are seeing, is just like, them doing the scene 00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:14.820 but what is actually happening in the you know 00:50:14.820 --> 00:50:17.519 bodies are being inhabited is the two of them 00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:20.559 are fighting right and so the one shoots the 00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:24.400 other one on purpose whereas we we perceive it 00:50:24.400 -->

00:50:27.219 as an accident but sorry the one i was referring 00:50:27.219 --> 00:50:32.260 to was the the minsky and minsky is it minsky 00:50:32.260 --> 00:50:34.940 and franny arguing to each other i'm talking 00:50:34.940 --> 00:50:37.880 about when you uh sorry i'm getting it's okay 00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:39.460 it's very difficult to talk about the artist 00:50:39.460 --> 00:50:43.960 carl is the cop yeah so so it's minsky it's franny 00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:47.119 and john kind of arguing with each other like 00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:49.059 in the bed i'm talking about the scene where 00:50:49.059 --> 00:50:52.489 the one bites john's neck Oh yeah. They're arguing 00:50:52.489 --> 00:50:56.030 with each other. And like the argument between 00:50:56.030 --> 00:50:59.949 John and Marissa kind of feel almost, it almost 00:50:59.949 --> 00:51:02.869 like feels like a real argument they're having 00:51:02.869 --> 00:51:06.110 when it's supposed to be Minsky and the character 00:51:06.110 --> 00:51:08.829 fighting. And then when you reverse that clip, 00:51:08.869 --> 00:51:11.909 you see her bite John's neck and kill him. You 00:51:11.909 --> 00:51:17.519 see that it is a, it is a real argument. My belief 00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:20.579 is that the scenes are never one -to -one. It's 00:51:20.579 --> 00:51:22.719 not always just an overlay of something else. 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:25.119 That's not the context of how things are happening. 00:51:25.380 --> 00:51:30.099 It's that we are able to see why scenes become 00:51:30.099 --> 00:51:33.880 one way or why things get written some way because 00:51:33.880 --> 00:51:38.000 these are the real circumstances that led to 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:41.000 this thing being created in the art. This is 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:44.079 where you start to see... this sort of friction, 00:51:44.300 --> 00:51:46.519 this sort of separation and ethos between the 00:51:46.519 --> 00:51:49.260 one and the other one really start to drive a 00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:51.420 wedge between them. And not just in the sense 00:51:51.420 --> 00:51:54.800 that she literally, the one literally kills the 00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:55.920 other one with a gun because they're immortal 00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:58.360 and that doesn't really mean so much. But like 00:51:58.360 --> 00:52:01.829 personally. And in the art they create, as we 00:52:01.829 --> 00:52:03.769 talked about Two of Everything being like a worse 00:52:03.769 --> 00:52:07.369 one, they start to drift apart. And the sort 00:52:07.369 --> 00:52:09.630 of personality and chemistry that I spoke of 00:52:09.630 --> 00:52:12.969 on the set of Ambrosio is like by the end of 00:52:12.969 --> 00:52:15.030 Minsky, you're starting to see like the seams 00:52:15.030 --> 00:52:19.349 tear apart on the dress or whatever. Yeah. And 00:52:19.349 --> 00:52:21.730 that's why Two of Everything is insane. Yeah. 00:52:21.769 --> 00:52:27.349 And is the best part of the game. So. After Minsky 00:52:27.349 --> 00:52:32.190 is canceled, essentially, the one basically abandons 00:52:32.190 --> 00:52:36.710 Marissa entirely and begins working just as John 00:52:36.710 --> 00:52:39.849 and finds a new, she refers to her as a muse. 00:52:40.010 --> 00:52:42.750 Before we hop to two of everything, the interview 00:52:42.750 --> 00:52:46.769 that John does, they do such a good job of showing 00:52:46.769 --> 00:52:49.869 the one kind of mourning the loss of Marissa. 00:52:50.010 --> 00:52:54.170 I do love that scene. No, it's good. It's really, 00:52:54.250 --> 00:52:59.000 really good. Because it's John talking about 00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:04.179 Marissa disappearing, but it is also the one 00:53:04.179 --> 00:53:08.780 mourning the loss of Marissa as a tool to create 00:53:08.780 --> 00:53:12.139 art with, effectively. It's not really explained, 00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:17.380 but it seems like the way the powers work is 00:53:17.380 --> 00:53:22.139 once you kill somebody, you kind of have to be 00:53:22.139 --> 00:53:24.969 them. or you lose the connection with that other 00:53:24.969 --> 00:53:29.469 body or something. It's like if they choose not 00:53:29.469 --> 00:53:33.849 to, they lose that id. They lose that personality. 00:53:33.969 --> 00:53:36.110 They can choose to forget. Yeah, they talk about 00:53:36.110 --> 00:53:38.690 this in the night shows where she says, oh, I 00:53:38.690 --> 00:53:41.730 don't remember everything. I've lost a lot of 00:53:41.730 --> 00:53:43.530 it. It's getting harder and harder to remember 00:53:43.530 --> 00:53:48.469 because she is the one is so many other. things 00:53:48.469 --> 00:53:50.389 and people that it's becoming hard to contain. 00:53:50.550 --> 00:53:53.230 And it's clear that like, if they're not consciously 00:53:53.230 --> 00:53:57.050 inhabiting one body, there's a part of it that 00:53:57.050 --> 00:54:00.230 fades. they also can't be too many people at 00:54:00.230 --> 00:54:02.110 the same time, or they start to lose their sense 00:54:02.110 --> 00:54:05.429 of self. So there is a balance to it. Really, 00:54:05.469 --> 00:54:08.489 it feels like there's a soft limit at two. To 00:54:08.489 --> 00:54:11.429 be honest with you. There are two of everything, 00:54:11.590 --> 00:54:14.670 two personalities at the same time. Which, again, 00:54:14.829 --> 00:54:18.250 insane that two of everything is literally an 00:54:18.250 --> 00:54:22.289 allegory for what is going on with the one at... 00:54:22.289 --> 00:54:25.309 God, this game is so smart. This game is so... 00:54:25.309 --> 00:54:28.980 Well, I can't, like... just continually like 00:54:28.980 --> 00:54:30.739 I said it doesn't hit you in big epiphanies it 00:54:30.739 --> 00:54:33.340 hits you like after the fact in very subtle ways 00:54:33.340 --> 00:54:37.699 that this game is like it's so not like cerebral 00:54:37.699 --> 00:54:39.760 in the sense that the guy wrote like a good thriller 00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:42.679 and

it's like there's like a fun twist it's just 00:54:42.679 --> 00:54:45.880 like everything is so purposeful and meticulous 00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:48.659 and despite the fact that it's such a big game 00:54:48.659 --> 00:54:51.900 there is not an ounce of fat yeah on it everything 00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:55.079 is like so intentional everything is so purposeful 00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:57.639 and there's like 15 hours well not that many 00:54:57.639 --> 00:54:59.760 but like there's like 10 hours of footage in 00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:02.920 this game yeah and none of it is extraneous that's 00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:06.539 insane which speaking of those reviews lots of 00:55:06.539 --> 00:55:08.659 people were like oh there's so much extraneous 00:55:08.659 --> 00:55:10.480 stuff and i'm like this is because you can't 00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:15.829 read i You can't read slash watch. You don't 00:55:15.829 --> 00:55:18.170 know what you're doing. I was about to say something 00:55:18.170 --> 00:55:21.070 my wife would not approve of. So after Minsky, 00:55:21.289 --> 00:55:24.989 the one basically decides to inhabit only John 00:55:24.989 --> 00:55:28.909 and eventually finds a new, she refers to her 00:55:28.909 --> 00:55:32.429 as a muse named Amy. They start making a lot 00:55:32.429 --> 00:55:35.769 of movies together, but... eventually the one 00:55:35.769 --> 00:55:39.110 realizes that with each new movie they make they're 00:55:39.110 --> 00:55:42.210 just continuing to get worse and worse and somehow 00:55:42.210 --> 00:55:45.449 eventually even though the other one was killed 00:55:45.449 --> 00:55:49.949 and cremated during minsky amy watches footage 00:55:49.949 --> 00:55:53.769 of the other one and becomes inhabited by the 00:55:53.769 --> 00:55:57.659 other one and so now re -teamed up the one and 00:55:57.659 --> 00:56:00.460 the other one decide to make a movie together 00:56:00.460 --> 00:56:03.900 which leads to two of everything which the one 00:56:03.900 --> 00:56:07.380 describes it as the story that they always wanted 00:56:07.380 --> 00:56:11.039 to tell but just simplified down to its basic 00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:15.300 elements And it's completely sauceless. There's 00:56:15.300 --> 00:56:20.219 not an iota of redeeming quality to be had in 00:56:20.219 --> 00:56:22.019 the depiction of Two Every. It's ridiculous. 00:56:22.179 --> 00:56:25.119 It's important to me, to the argument I'm going 00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:26.840 to make about this game later, it is important 00:56:26.840 --> 00:56:29.829 to me... to note that this is the only film of 00:56:29.829 --> 00:56:33.150 the three films that is completely written, directed, 00:56:33.210 --> 00:56:37.110 and produced by the Immortals. Both of the movies 00:56:37.110 --> 00:56:40.090 that came before it, Minsky and Ambrosio, there 00:56:40.090 --> 00:56:43.530 are varying degrees of human people working on 00:56:43.530 --> 00:56:46.969 them and creating something. And with each iteration 00:56:46.969 --> 00:56:50.449 of film, the human direction of it becomes less, 00:56:50.510 --> 00:56:54.340 whereas Ambrosio is... all humanity the one is 00:56:54.340 --> 00:56:57.039 acting in it and the other one is also acting 00:56:57.039 --> 00:57:00.159 in it but for the most part it is human directed 00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:03.559 it is human written is based off a human text 00:57:03.559 --> 00:57:07.920 minsky is half and a half where it is it is a 00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:10.260 an immortal and a human collaborating together 00:57:10.260 --> 00:57:12.960 and this one is all immortal two of everything 00:57:12.960 --> 00:57:15.840 is like kind of this disaster of a film the the 00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:19.409 funniest thing that mason brought up as we were 00:57:19.409 --> 00:57:21.389 talking as as he was like going through this 00:57:21.389 --> 00:57:23.929 is like why is no one talking about how they 00:57:23.929 --> 00:57:26.610 all john and marissa look the same age as they 00:57:26.610 --> 00:57:30.130 did yeah when when they were in the movies in 00:57:30.130 --> 00:57:34.210 the 70s it hit me later that oh like of course 00:57:34.210 --> 00:57:35.869 because none of her movies came out so no one 00:57:35.869 --> 00:57:37.750 really knows what she looks like yeah but like 00:57:37.750 --> 00:57:39.289 it was the first thing that was very striking 00:57:39.289 --> 00:57:42.289 to me is like i was like sam didn't they say 00:57:42.289 --> 00:57:44.630 this is 96 and you were like yeah and i was like 00:57:46.650 --> 00:57:48.150 What do you mean? She sure doesn't look like 00:57:48.150 --> 00:57:51.469 a woman in her 40s. Yeah. And John doesn't look 00:57:51.469 --> 00:57:54.190 like a man who's probably in his, like, 70s, 00:57:54.190 --> 00:57:57.550 80s. No, 50s. I don't think he's that much older 00:57:57.550 --> 00:58:01.230 than Marissa. If he was of career age in 69, 00:58:01.329 --> 00:58:04.210 he would have been born in the 40s, right? I 00:58:04.210 --> 00:58:06.710 feel like he's probably in his 30s. I feel like 00:58:06.710 --> 00:58:09.809 he, age -wise, is probably in his 30s during 00:58:09.809 --> 00:58:14.260 Ambrosio. Okay. So he'd be, like, knocking on 00:58:14.260 --> 00:58:18.340 the door at 60? Yeah. Well, it's 20 years late. 00:58:18.420 --> 00:58:20.179 Well, almost 30 years late. So yeah, somewhere 00:58:20.179 --> 00:58:23.519 in the 50s, 60s range. Two of everything is soaked 00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:27.500 in these insane metaphorical meanings. First 00:58:27.500 --> 00:58:31.760 of all, this game tells all of its themes via 00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:35.320 the parallelisms between the movies. It's not 00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:37.559 exclusively the way it tells them, but all of 00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:40.340 the themes that they try to address, or I feel 00:58:40.340 --> 00:58:44.019 that they try to address, are told via parallelisms 00:58:44.019 --> 00:58:46.659 between the movies. There is very little

in way 00:58:46.659 --> 00:58:54.480 of graphic sex and really raunchy, crazy artsy 00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:57.139 stuff into everything. And yet it feels like 00:58:57.139 --> 00:59:00.519 the one in which the women are portrayed in the 00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:06.699 most anti -feminist, reductive way. I was very 00:59:06.699 --> 00:59:11.900 shocked by it. One, you know, sex doesn't... 00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:14.619 Sex doesn't mean anything to the immortals. It 00:59:14.619 --> 00:59:16.460 is strictly a thing that is done for pleasure 00:59:16.460 --> 00:59:20.300 for them because they can't procreate. The intentionality 00:59:20.300 --> 00:59:24.199 of sex, I think, is lost on them. So the shock 00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:28.280 value of sex, the shock value of having sex for 00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:31.679 pleasure on a movie screen is lost on them. So 00:59:31.679 --> 00:59:34.679 it's not important to them to depict in that 00:59:34.679 --> 00:59:39.989 sense. But the women are under the arm of a man. 00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:43.440 in a bikini in vulnerable positions either being 00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:49.199 raped or being paid off to be eye candy at a 00:59:49.199 --> 00:59:51.980 birthday party in a lot of ways it doesn't have 00:59:51.980 --> 00:59:56.000 it didn't elicit that visceral gut -wrenching 00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:59.239 feeling of watching arthur fisher abuse a young 00:59:59.239 --> 01:00:02.280 lady but there was like a more pernicious like 01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:05.739 stuff you see every day But like, does it immediately 01:00:05.739 --> 01:00:09.079 register as like problematic that pervaded the 01:00:09.079 --> 01:00:12.559 entire filming of two of everything that I was 01:00:12.559 --> 01:00:14.159 like, wow, this is like very impressive that 01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:17.219 they nailed these two super contrasting like 01:00:17.219 --> 01:00:20.860 feelings. And I mean, the game is a lot about 01:00:20.860 --> 01:00:23.480 a lot about feminism and the depiction of women 01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:26.219 in art. So it makes a lot of sense. Don't start 01:00:26.219 --> 01:00:27.619 with me. Don't shake your head at me. Well, I 01:00:27.619 --> 01:00:29.360 don't disagree. I don't disagree with that. It's 01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:31.400 about a lot of things. Well, no, it's not that 01:00:31.400 --> 01:00:33.510 I disagree that that is. a thing that the game 01:00:33.510 --> 01:00:35.289 is about. I just don't think that it's the main 01:00:35.289 --> 01:00:38.650 thing the game is about. Yeah. And we'll, I'll 01:00:38.650 --> 01:00:41.750 get to that. Yeah. One thing that I like about 01:00:41.750 --> 01:00:44.409 two of everything that like, isn't immediately 01:00:44.409 --> 01:00:48.110 obvious and kind of goes like against the grain. 01:00:48.170 --> 01:00:50.989 Cause like there's something I'm a little bit 01:00:50.989 --> 01:00:54.230 confused about is the other one inhabiting the 01:00:54.230 --> 01:00:57.989 rich guy too. No, no,

no, it's just a guy. And 01:00:57.989 --> 01:01:03.179 so the rich guy gets murked. It seems like that's 01:01:03.179 --> 01:01:05.699 the only time where the one just completely loses 01:01:05.699 --> 01:01:09.070 herself and just kills somebody just to do it. 01:01:09.170 --> 01:01:10.670 Are they talking about the scene where she hits 01:01:10.670 --> 01:01:12.550 him with the microphone over and over? Yeah, 01:01:12.570 --> 01:01:16.500 and his face is just bloody. Yeah. Which, did 01:01:16.500 --> 01:01:19.739 he act, does he actually die there? I don't think 01:01:19.739 --> 01:01:23.320 so. Okay. I didn't read it that way. Okay. I 01:01:23.320 --> 01:01:25.800 just, it seems like all, so all three of the 01:01:25.800 --> 01:01:27.820 movies, Marissa plays someone who kills a pervert. 01:01:28.119 --> 01:01:31.610 And then in that scene, it feels like. the one 01:01:31.610 --> 01:01:36.409 is like maybe misattributing frustration to like 01:01:36.409 --> 01:01:38.989 the bad acting or like taking out frustration 01:01:38.989 --> 01:01:42.989 for being tired and like not being able to hold 01:01:42.989 --> 01:01:45.210 up the weight of all the different hats that 01:01:45.210 --> 01:01:47.610 she's wearing and roles she has to inhabit at 01:01:47.610 --> 01:01:49.929 once. And so she's just like taking out her frustration. 01:01:49.929 --> 01:01:53.369 Yeah. On like the closest person. Yeah. And you 01:01:53.369 --> 01:01:56.090 know, it's interesting there because like you 01:01:56.090 --> 01:02:00.699 see during the bad acting that she is like, actor 01:02:00.699 --> 01:02:03.800 marissa trying to like be a normal human in act 01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:09.800 is fucking up stuff yeah and it's it's very interesting 01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:15.460 that they have like that you can't get the context 01:02:15.460 --> 01:02:17.940 of why it's happening without having like the 01:02:17.940 --> 01:02:20.539 reverse clips or understanding what's actually 01:02:20.539 --> 01:02:25.780 going on with the one during that time I think 01:02:25.780 --> 01:02:28.960 it's such a good way of structuring this kind 01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:32.460 of multi -layered story. It was not obvious to 01:02:32.460 --> 01:02:36.760 me why the dude was getting mad at Marissa or 01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:39.920 what she would have done wrong without knowing 01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:43.059 that, oh, this is the one literally falling apart 01:02:43.059 --> 01:02:48.920 and losing control of things because she's trying 01:02:48.920 --> 01:02:55.210 to do too much. losing the Marissa body or whatever 01:02:55.210 --> 01:02:58.369 is going on. So let's get into our one moments, 01:02:58.590 --> 01:03:03.469 and then I'll go last. And then at the end of 01:03:03.469 --> 01:03:05.610 it, I would like to propose what I think is the 01:03:05.610 --> 01:03:08.190 main thesis, like the primary thesis of this 01:03:08.190 --> 01:03:12.369 game, past all of the other things that they 01:03:12.369 --> 01:03:16.710 incorporate into it. So Bucky, you elucidated 01:03:16.710 --> 01:03:18.210 yours a little bit, so I'm going to let you go 01:03:18.210 --> 01:03:22.969 first. Yeah, so... My one moment was understanding 01:03:22.969 --> 01:03:26.130 what Minsky was representing in the story. Because 01:03:26.130 --> 01:03:30.170 I felt like the most interesting gameplay segment 01:03:30.170 --> 01:03:34.570 of this game was Minsky. Because there was so 01:03:34.570 --> 01:03:36.909 much cool art shit to click on that took you 01:03:36.909 --> 01:03:39.170 to different things that kind of put things together. 01:03:40.690 --> 01:03:43.809 The clip of Carl getting murked was one of the 01:03:43.809 --> 01:03:46.809 earliest things that I found. Well, you see a 01:03:46.809 --> 01:03:48.670 gun on screen for your first time. You're like, 01:03:48.730 --> 01:03:50.210 all right, I'm just going to keep clicking on 01:03:50.210 --> 01:03:53.730 the gun until something bad happens. Yeah. Obviously 01:03:53.730 --> 01:03:56.389 something bad is going to happen if I keep clicking 01:03:56.389 --> 01:04:01.070 on the gun. Minsky finding that other one, the 01:04:01.070 --> 01:04:05.349 one in the other one, the bathroom scene, and 01:04:05.349 --> 01:04:10.199 just Minsky overall. I thought had the most interesting 01:04:10.199 --> 01:04:13.019 commentary going on with like how they were using 01:04:13.019 --> 01:04:16.460 the character of Carl to show things. And like, 01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:19.400 I liked the like framing of the scenes the most. 01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:22.559 I liked the art. I liked the, all the queer people. 01:04:22.699 --> 01:04:26.199 And so like getting to experience all of that 01:04:26.199 --> 01:04:30.199 stuff and then seeing what Minsky meant in the 01:04:30.199 --> 01:04:33.320 story of the one and the other one and how the 01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:35.320 one was interacting with John and all of that. 01:04:35.340 --> 01:04:40.619 Ah, just. Such a cool thing. I think Ambrosio 01:04:40.619 --> 01:04:44.300 is like the best fake movie, but I think Minsky 01:04:44.300 --> 01:04:48.820 as a piece of video game, I liked more. Mason? 01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:51.179 So I don't think we've explicitly talked about 01:04:51.179 --> 01:04:54.199 the singular mechanic of this game. which is 01:04:54.199 --> 01:04:56.139 that any point in time you can stop the movie, 01:04:56.199 --> 01:04:58.900 click on something on the screen, and it'll show 01:04:58.900 --> 01:05:01.699 you a random clip from any of the three movies 01:05:01.699 --> 01:05:04.820 anywhere else. It's not us. That's how it works. 01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:08.719 Like for my one moment, it's the focal point, 01:05:08.780 --> 01:05:10.659 right? So at any point during the game, you can 01:05:10.659 --> 01:05:13.019 stop, click on anything in the frame, and it'll 01:05:13.019 --> 01:05:16.400 try to show you another clip completely randomly 01:05:16.400 -->

01:05:20.090 that has the same thing in it. and sometimes 01:05:20.090 --> 01:05:22.269 they're kind of rounding, but a lot of the times 01:05:22.269 --> 01:05:24.090 you're clicking on certain actors' faces and 01:05:24.090 --> 01:05:28.809 stuff. I had clicked from Marissa into a scene 01:05:28.809 --> 01:05:31.909 with Marissa. I had gotten into one of the scenes 01:05:31.909 --> 01:05:35.550 of The One, right? So I'm looking at The One, 01:05:35.670 --> 01:05:38.690 and I go, oh, I haven't tried clicking on The 01:05:38.690 --> 01:05:41.789 One yet. I'll click The One. I click The One. 01:05:41.909 --> 01:05:47.309 I get taken to the face of John Durek, and I 01:05:47.309 --> 01:05:52.500 was like, Sam, is the one not Marissa? And Sam 01:05:52.500 --> 01:05:55.239 was like, yes. And I just kind of like sat there 01:05:55.239 --> 01:06:00.360 for a minute and I was like, huh. That was like 01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:02.360 when it truly set in that like, oh, this game 01:06:02.360 --> 01:06:05.079 is like really about a lot of things that I'm 01:06:05.079 --> 01:06:07.099 going to have to like really think and unpack 01:06:07.099 --> 01:06:10.800 because it's, you know, that was when that feeling 01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:13.340 started to set in for me. Yeah. Yeah, and it's 01:06:13.340 --> 01:06:16.539 funny because a lot of the early game of this, 01:06:16.659 --> 01:06:18.980 which I think the game does credit your theory 01:06:18.980 --> 01:06:22.199 a lot, is that she's a vampire. Yeah. The one 01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:26.179 is a vampire. Yeah. Which is kind of true, but 01:06:26.179 --> 01:06:28.599 not exactly. There's vampire -like aspects, but 01:06:28.599 --> 01:06:31.320 it is not explicit, and it's only very mildly 01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:32.820 implicit. You see a lot of fucked up throats 01:06:32.820 --> 01:06:35.480 in this game. Yeah, that's true. Now, one of 01:06:35.480 --> 01:06:37.960 the first things I got with the one was the museum 01:06:37.960 --> 01:06:39.679 masks scene. You know what I'm talking about? 01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:41.570 And you see the two guys, and they're... blood 01:06:41.570 --> 01:06:43.349 all over their throats and i was like oh this 01:06:43.349 --> 01:06:46.289 is like clearly signaling that it's like a vampire 01:06:46.289 --> 01:06:48.389 type thing i thought it was very interesting 01:06:48.389 --> 01:06:51.869 in that scene specifically that carl has bite 01:06:51.869 --> 01:06:55.889 marks and i wonder if that is the sign of the 01:06:55.889 --> 01:06:59.889 other one inhabiting carl maybe i didn't think 01:06:59.889 --> 01:07:02.769 about that but i think that might be what it 01:07:02.769 --> 01:07:06.170 is because we know the one killed john but once 01:07:06.170 --> 01:07:08.840 you know the mechanism for how they inhabit a 01:07:08.840 --> 01:07:10.679 body, you really have to think about it every 01:07:10.679 --> 01:07:13.239 time you see something like that. And I think 01:07:13.239 --> 01:07:17.340 it's definitely intentional, because every single 01:07:17.340 --> 01:07:20.780 shot feels very intentional. Because that's not 01:07:20.780 --> 01:07:23.860 how Carl died. Carl died by getting shot, and 01:07:23.860 --> 01:07:28.530 then cremated. I have one moment, and I'm going 01:07:28.530 --> 01:07:32.429 to be honest about this. I did not get this myself 01:07:32.429 --> 01:07:37.760 during gameplay, but I was watching... collection 01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:40.159 of all of the... In preparation for the episode, 01:07:40.219 --> 01:07:42.579 I was watching a collection of all of the scrub... 01:07:42.579 --> 01:07:44.840 They're called the hidden scenes, the scrub footage. 01:07:45.139 --> 01:07:47.500 I also did that because... So you two aren't 01:07:47.500 --> 01:07:50.659 real fans of this. I mean, dude, I played through 01:07:50.659 --> 01:07:52.699 the game. I beat the game. I got most of the 01:07:52.699 --> 01:07:55.139 clips. I just didn't have time to go through. 01:07:55.139 --> 01:07:57.119 I'm just fucking with you, man. I'm not being 01:07:57.119 --> 01:08:01.199 for real. I promise. My one moment of this game 01:08:01.199 --> 01:08:05.059 that eventually led to my light bulb moment about 01:08:05.059 --> 01:08:10.710 what the game is about. is the scene where the 01:08:10.710 --> 01:08:14.309 one is mouthing along to the lyrics of Candy 01:08:14.309 --> 01:08:21.329 Says by the Velvet Underground. So good. I couldn't 01:08:21.329 --> 01:08:25.470 find anywhere that version of the song. I searched 01:08:25.470 --> 01:08:29.430 for covers of the song. I searched for the Velvet 01:08:29.430 --> 01:08:32.270 Underground doing live performances of the song 01:08:32.270 --> 01:08:35.039 because there's clapping in the track. I couldn't 01:08:35.039 --> 01:08:36.840 find it. So I didn't know if it was something 01:08:36.840 --> 01:08:39.039 that they had specially recorded for the game 01:08:39.039 --> 01:08:41.880 to get around copyright laws and stuff. I can 01:08:41.880 --> 01:08:43.939 shed insight on that. Would you like me to? Sure. 01:08:44.060 --> 01:08:47.199 Jacob Geller spoke on this in his coverage of 01:08:47.199 --> 01:08:49.300 it. I haven't watched that yet because I hadn't 01:08:49.300 --> 01:08:50.699 played the game yet and I knew we were doing 01:08:50.699 --> 01:08:54.800 it. It is a live performance of a cover from 01:08:54.800 --> 01:08:58.479 like 10 -ish years after the song came out from 01:08:58.479 --> 01:09:00.600 another performer. It's like a somewhat well 01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:05.220 -known cover. Okay. And there's like a couple 01:09:05.220 --> 01:09:08.199 of reasons why this was my moment. But the song 01:09:08.199 --> 01:09:11.720 is about a relationship between Lou Reed, who's 01:09:11.720 --> 01:09:14.020 the head singer of the Velvet Underground, and 01:09:14.020 --> 01:09:18.319 Candy Darling, who was a transgender woman who 01:09:18.319 --> 01:09:21.279 worked with Andy Warhol in

Andy Warhol's factory, 01:09:21.560 --> 01:09:24.359 which was like the equivalent to the warehouse 01:09:24.359 --> 01:09:28.670 in Minsky. The scene is just so striking for 01:09:28.670 --> 01:09:31.010 me because they play the whole song. They don't 01:09:31.010 --> 01:09:33.010 cut any of it out. It was very intentionally 01:09:33.010 --> 01:09:36.350 like we're playing the whole song for you, the 01:09:36.350 --> 01:09:40.149 player, to take in for it. Like halfway through 01:09:40.149 --> 01:09:44.470 it, the one just starts crying. Like the most, 01:09:44.649 --> 01:09:48.470 probably the most emotion we see her. give in 01:09:48.470 --> 01:09:51.449 the entire game in any of the clips that she's 01:09:51.449 --> 01:09:54.229 in you know she expresses concepts of frustration 01:09:54.229 --> 01:09:56.909 or disappointment or whatever but this is like 01:09:56.909 --> 01:09:59.470 the first time it really feels like she is connecting 01:09:59.470 --> 01:10:02.010 something on to something on a really deep level 01:10:02.010 --> 01:10:04.909 and eventually she just walks out of frame and 01:10:04.909 --> 01:10:06.989 then like the rest of the song plays right i 01:10:06.989 --> 01:10:09.350 had to like i spent a lot of time like thinking 01:10:09.350 --> 01:10:12.199 and processing about this game right because 01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:17.479 the text is so dense. This isn't even close to 01:10:17.479 --> 01:10:20.100 the longest game we've played, but the density 01:10:20.100 --> 01:10:22.859 of the text is very similar to Disco Elysium, 01:10:22.960 --> 01:10:25.600 where to be able to parse the meaning out of 01:10:25.600 --> 01:10:28.300 it, because there are so many disparate elements, 01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:33.000 you have to really sit with it and think about 01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:35.199 it all. And the ultimate conclusion I have come 01:10:35.199 --> 01:10:40.539 to is that this game is about how... Like the 01:10:40.539 --> 01:10:43.319 beauty of human creation, the beauty of human 01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:47.840 art is derived from mortality because the immortals 01:10:47.840 --> 01:10:51.380 themselves throughout all their efforts to create 01:10:51.380 --> 01:10:55.739 something lasting, to create something important, 01:10:56.039 --> 01:10:59.079 you know, whether it's from what we see to have 01:10:59.079 --> 01:11:02.420 everything or from their attempts to do the greatest 01:11:02.420 --> 01:11:05.760 story ever told where they did Jesus, they were 01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:08.640 Jesus. They have like completely failed on every 01:11:08.640 --> 01:11:12.170 angle. They ended up creating religion that they 01:11:12.170 --> 01:11:15.810 believe has created a lot of hardship. They couldn't 01:11:15.810 --> 01:11:18.329 produce the movie they thought was going to be 01:11:18.329 --> 01:11:22.149 like their story. They couldn't do it. And there's 01:11:22.149 --> 01:11:25.210 even a clip during the game where like the one 01:11:25.210

--> 01:11:28.050 says that the beauty of humans is their mortality. 01:11:28.949 --> 01:11:32.789 Even when humans are in decline, you know, as 01:11:32.789 --> 01:11:36.449 this game keeps pointing out to you, even when... 01:11:36.750 --> 01:11:39.550 People are on their slope down. They are still 01:11:39.550 --> 01:11:41.850 trying to create something that is worth remembering. 01:11:42.210 --> 01:11:44.869 They're still trying to create something that 01:11:44.869 --> 01:11:48.920 is going to like keep them. the history books 01:11:48.920 --> 01:11:50.979 keep them being talked about you know the goal 01:11:50.979 --> 01:11:53.680 of any movie director is going to is like to 01:11:53.680 --> 01:11:55.560 make something that people are going to remember 01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:58.279 it might not always be to make to you know win 01:11:58.279 --> 01:12:00.340 awards that might not always be the thing that 01:12:00.340 --> 01:12:02.439 like they can do or they might not have the budget 01:12:02.439 --> 01:12:03.840 for it or whatever but they want to make something 01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:06.079 that's going to be remembered the immortals aren't 01:12:06.079 --> 01:12:09.119 capable of doing that because they don't have 01:12:09.119 --> 01:12:13.010 that intrinsic need In fact, literally through 01:12:13.010 --> 01:12:15.949 the events of this game, they figured out that 01:12:15.949 --> 01:12:18.229 they can literally just live forever as long 01:12:18.229 --> 01:12:21.310 as they have been filmed. Yeah, as long as they've 01:12:21.310 --> 01:12:25.810 got eyes on them. The ultimate tragedy of the 01:12:25.810 --> 01:12:29.510 one is despite all of her effort and all of her 01:12:29.510 --> 01:12:32.529 trying and all of her imitation. of humanity 01:12:32.529 --> 01:12:34.890 there's literally a scene where she's dancing 01:12:34.890 --> 01:12:38.170 to four seasons by vivaldi one of the most important 01:12:38.170 --> 01:12:41.289 orchestral works of all time at the end of the 01:12:41.289 --> 01:12:44.369 day all she can do is imitate and the only things 01:12:44.369 --> 01:12:47.050 that she can create don't end up the way and 01:12:47.050 --> 01:12:50.449 it just makes her so frustrated and that she 01:12:50.449 --> 01:12:52.670 ends up like killing the people that she trusts 01:12:52.670 --> 01:12:55.170 trusted to create things with her because she 01:12:55.170 --> 01:12:57.310 thinks it's not good enough so like all these 01:12:57.310 --> 01:13:00.029 other things you know the they're great. You 01:13:00.029 --> 01:13:02.430 know, feminism, the misogyny in Hollywood, like 01:13:02.430 --> 01:13:03.989 all those things are definitely still part of 01:13:03.989 --> 01:13:06.010 this game. There's still important aspects of 01:13:06.010 --> 01:13:08.750 it. But when I think about like the story that 01:13:08.750 --> 01:13:11.109 Sam Barlow was trying to tell, like the point 01:13:11.109 --> 01:13:14.130 he was trying to drive home as a human, you only 01:13:14.130 --> 01:13:17.609 have one life and your ability to create is informed 01:13:17.609 --> 01:13:20.949 by the fact that you only get to make, you only 01:13:20.949 --> 01:13:22.810 get one chance to make the things you want to 01:13:22.810 --> 01:13:26.630 do. I hate, I had kind of gotten there, but I 01:13:26.630 --> 01:13:30.399 hadn't put it. together like that and like that 01:13:30.399 --> 01:13:33.899 scene that my one moment with the candy says 01:13:33.899 --> 01:13:38.880 song is like that is the one it's not just that 01:13:38.880 --> 01:13:41.199 she's sad about the song because it's a beautiful 01:13:41.199 --> 01:13:44.520 song it's really really good song but she's knows 01:13:44.520 --> 01:13:48.500 she can't make it breaks her that she can't make 01:13:48.500 --> 01:13:51.140 something like that yeah because she she's not 01:13:51.140 --> 01:13:55.619 capable she doesn't get it so i think this game 01:13:55.970 --> 01:13:57.630 do you want to i'm about to talk for a really 01:13:57.630 --> 01:13:59.010 fucking long time i talked for a really long 01:13:59.010 --> 01:14:00.170 is there anything else you want to cover because 01:14:00.170 --> 01:14:01.750 i'm about to talk about a million things this 01:14:01.750 --> 01:14:04.750 game's about i'm i'm good for now i'll okay chime 01:14:04.750 --> 01:14:07.630 in i think this game is about a few things in 01:14:07.630 --> 01:14:10.850 huge measure and a few things in very small measure 01:14:10.850 --> 01:14:14.649 okay and i think it is i i agree with you that 01:14:14.649 --> 01:14:19.449 it's an expression of what sam barlow feels as 01:14:19.449 --> 01:14:25.430 an artist right i think that it is a little bit 01:14:25.430 --> 01:14:30.430 more complex than saying that truly it can be 01:14:30.430 --> 01:14:32.010 boiled down to those things. Even though I agree 01:14:32.010 --> 01:14:34.270 with your analysis, I agree with your reading 01:14:34.270 --> 01:14:36.569 of those things, because a lot of what I was 01:14:36.569 --> 01:14:39.010 feeling, a lot of the themes of the game that 01:14:39.010 --> 01:14:41.590 struck me the most and made me feel the most 01:14:41.590 --> 01:14:45.710 was the depiction of women in movies. I feel 01:14:45.710 --> 01:14:49.810 that Sam Barlow feels very strongly about that 01:14:49.810 --> 01:14:55.840 because in all of the movies, Marissa, the actor, 01:14:56.020 --> 01:15:00.439 not the one, burns in some way. One time literally, 01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:04.260 one time it is as the one, right? But she's a 01:15:04.260 --> 01:15:07.739 demon from hell. She's Satan. So she's a fallen 01:15:07.739 --> 01:15:10.479 angel and she's captured by the Inquisition who 01:15:10.479 --> 01:15:12.680 threatened to burn her. In Minsky, it's a little 01:15:12.680 --> 01:15:14.520 bit more metaphorical because it's a little bit 01:15:14.520 --> 01:15:17.220 more of an art house thing. But the detective 01:15:17.220 --> 01:15:21.520

holds the note that is the only evidence of her 01:15:21.520 --> 01:15:25.000 as the killer. which is like who she truly is, 01:15:25.079 --> 01:15:26.979 right? Because otherwise she is a sex object 01:15:26.979 --> 01:15:29.859 that is being abused by Minsky. And the detective 01:15:29.859 --> 01:15:33.300 burns that sort of identity of her. And then 01:15:33.300 --> 01:15:34.939 one time it's literally, she's like burned alive 01:15:34.939 --> 01:15:37.260 by gasoline in a chair. That one's a little more 01:15:37.260 --> 01:15:39.079 overt. As it happens. That's more overt. And 01:15:39.079 --> 01:15:44.340 to me, what it's saying is like, the women who 01:15:44.340 --> 01:15:48.579 are abused and who are depicted in demeaning, 01:15:48.579 --> 01:15:53.000 belittling. misogynistic ways they go away they 01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:57.939 die they grow they move past acting but the depiction 01:15:57.939 --> 01:16:00.340 of them and the attitudes that we carried forth 01:16:00.340 --> 01:16:05.920 from them are immortal they are what carries 01:16:05.920 --> 01:16:10.970 on right because we see the old men Old men generally 01:16:10.970 --> 01:16:13.310 are depicted in this game, either acting or in 01:16:13.310 --> 01:16:16.710 real life, as misogynists, right? The old man 01:16:16.710 --> 01:16:20.729 playing the billionaire, Mr. Hessemberg, right? 01:16:20.829 --> 01:16:24.890 He's an actor. This is not him as a person. We 01:16:24.890 --> 01:16:26.750 never know who, we never know what his actual 01:16:26.750 --> 01:16:28.090 person's name is. We don't know him, but we see 01:16:28.090 --> 01:16:31.050 him depicted as a perverse, misogynistic man. 01:16:31.270 --> 01:16:35.220 And then we see Arthur Fisher as a real... misogynistic 01:16:35.220 --> 01:16:38.399 pig of a man a predator right and then there's 01:16:38.399 --> 01:16:43.100 this undercurrent that is a separate idea that 01:16:43.100 --> 01:16:45.380 i've been kind of playing around with that's 01:16:45.380 --> 01:16:49.760 like the fear of like as you get older as an 01:16:49.760 --> 01:16:52.659 artist as you have to do more as you have more 01:16:52.659 --> 01:16:56.880 responsibility as you as you are an actor and 01:16:56.880 --> 01:17:00.939 a director that like You lose your ethos. You 01:17:00.939 --> 01:17:04.039 lose your sauce. You're unable to make art like 01:17:04.039 --> 01:17:08.770 you used to. Coincidentally, crazy that this 01:17:08.770 --> 01:17:13.250 predated Megalopolis by two years. Insane. Insane. 01:17:13.350 --> 01:17:17.329 You see what I'm saying? There's a fear inherent, 01:17:17.529 --> 01:17:20.569 I think, to create. I'm not a director. I don't 01:17:20.569 --> 01:17:23.250 know. But it feels to me that Barlow is trying 01:17:23.250 --> 01:17:26.869 to communicate, I fear. That since I'm not immortal, 01:17:27.109 --> 01:17:30.390 I grow old and I will lose that which connected 01:17:30.390 --> 01:17:32.909 me to humanity. Sure. Because I see a lot of 01:17:32.909 --> 01:17:35.210 the immortals, you know, they both made two of 01:17:35.210 --> 01:17:36.890 everything and it sucked. And a lot of what you 01:17:36.890 --> 01:17:40.189 were saying is there. But like in a lot of ways, 01:17:40.289 --> 01:17:43.409 they have a beating heart. They cry. The one 01:17:43.409 --> 01:17:45.489 mourns the other when she holds him in a pool 01:17:45.489 --> 01:17:49.189 like a baby and like mourns his loss. She cries. 01:17:49.270 --> 01:17:52.069 She relives the trauma of World War II, even 01:17:52.069 --> 01:17:55.800 though that belongs to Marissa. She's smug. She's 01:17:55.800 --> 01:18:00.300 happy. She dances. The trappings of human emotion 01:18:00.300 --> 01:18:04.000 are there with the immortals, even though they're 01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:07.819 not depicted creating anything as a result of 01:18:07.819 --> 01:18:11.180 that. They can feel those things, but they are 01:18:11.180 --> 01:18:15.300 not good at expressing them creatively. I think 01:18:15.300 --> 01:18:18.039 one of my favorite scenes where almost nothing 01:18:18.039 --> 01:18:22.710 happens is the part... of tool of everything 01:18:22.710 --> 01:18:26.670 where marissa is just kind of freezing and if 01:18:26.670 --> 01:18:31.090 you reverse through it you see the world war 01:18:31.090 --> 01:18:35.649 ii version of the one yeah oh the one okay sure 01:18:35.649 --> 01:18:39.409 and the the black dude if you reverse again i 01:18:39.409 --> 01:18:41.689 might have the order messed up here you see someone 01:18:41.689 --> 01:18:44.149 who we've never seen and have no context for 01:18:44.149 --> 01:18:47.170 who it is yeah that happens a lot it is it is 01:18:47.170 --> 01:18:51.409 it is a version of the one that probably the 01:18:51.409 --> 01:18:55.430 one has also just like lost lost depersonalized 01:18:55.430 --> 01:18:59.430 from completely yeah that's like kind of part 01:18:59.430 --> 01:19:02.529 of like the yearning of the immortals to want 01:19:02.529 --> 01:19:06.890 to like create or like try to you know because 01:19:06.890 --> 01:19:08.850 like they're losing their sense of self right 01:19:08.850 --> 01:19:12.550 like i think part of the immortal struggle is 01:19:12.550 --> 01:19:15.409 that they almost don't know who they are right 01:19:15.409 --> 01:19:19.350 it's well they they don't know who they are because 01:19:19.350 --> 01:19:21.979 well The one doesn't know who she is because 01:19:21.979 --> 01:19:25.119 she's become so front. She's literally become 01:19:25.119 --> 01:19:27.819 two people. Well, not even that, but just because 01:19:27.819 --> 01:19:31.119 she's become so obsessed with the idea of entangling 01:19:31.119 --> 01:19:34.060 herself and helping humanity, whereas the other 01:19:34.060 --> 01:19:38.579 one still has a lot of his own sense of self 01:19:38.579 --> 01:19:43.760 because he doesn't see himself as needing to. 01:19:44.710 --> 01:19:48.250 Assist humans, assist humanity.

This is a little 01:19:48.250 --> 01:19:50.909 off topic. I do think it's very funny that they 01:19:50.909 --> 01:19:55.710 put the one's attitude into the achievement messages 01:19:55.710 --> 01:20:00.460 of this game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's 01:20:00.460 --> 01:20:02.340 even like kind of meta in the way where like 01:20:02.340 --> 01:20:04.960 if you haven't found any of that stuff yet and 01:20:04.960 --> 01:20:06.399 then you get an achievement, you're like, what 01:20:06.399 --> 01:20:08.800 the hell is it talking about? Yeah. Well, the 01:20:08.800 --> 01:20:10.659 first one I got was the Carl one and it said, 01:20:10.699 --> 01:20:13.819 poor Carl. So I had no context. And then when 01:20:13.819 --> 01:20:15.960 I started getting more of them and those all 01:20:15.960 --> 01:20:18.520 caps messages started being more meta, I was 01:20:18.520 --> 01:20:24.199 like, oh. Yeah. Yep. yeah i mean i don't disagree 01:20:24.199 --> 01:20:26.579 with anything anything you were saying mason 01:20:26.579 --> 01:20:29.859 it's just like if i if i had like you know if 01:20:29.859 --> 01:20:34.020 i was in grad school and you know for my your 01:20:34.020 --> 01:20:37.920 my thesis defense dictionary definition of immortality 01:20:37.920 --> 01:20:40.119 that like that is the first thing i would talk 01:20:40.119 --> 01:20:41.800 about i think i think the themes of feminism 01:20:41.800 --> 01:20:43.880 in this game are really really important i think 01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:46.500 they are second i think that is like the second 01:20:46.500 --> 01:20:51.699 thing in this game If I had to rank them in order 01:20:51.699 --> 01:20:56.720 of importance of intent by the author, I think 01:20:56.720 --> 01:20:58.220 that would be the second most important thing. 01:20:58.420 --> 01:21:03.239 I see. A lot of those misogynist themes and ideals 01:21:03.239 --> 01:21:06.659 that exist in the real world in film continue 01:21:06.659 --> 01:21:12.579 to persist. It's getting better, but the way 01:21:12.579 --> 01:21:15.979 that Hollywood treats women is still not improving. 01:21:16.810 --> 01:21:20.449 What I latched onto and why I felt the way I 01:21:20.449 --> 01:21:23.210 did, the strongest I did, was because I immediately 01:21:23.210 --> 01:21:26.149 latched onto the parallelisms. Because when you're 01:21:26.149 --> 01:21:30.670 shown three things, it is human to be like, well, 01:21:30.710 --> 01:21:32.590 I'm going to compare and contrast them. Right. 01:21:32.649 --> 01:21:35.810 And then the things I was thinking of was like, 01:21:35.909 --> 01:21:38.329 in all three of these movies, there's a femme 01:21:38.329 --> 01:21:42.149 fatale, there's a lot of sex, a pervert dies, 01:21:42.369 --> 01:21:46.609 someone's... Yeah, I agree. That was what I spent 01:21:46.609 --> 01:21:49.789 the most time thinking about. Sure. I think for 01:21:49.789 --> 01:21:54.090 me, it was like, well, the game is not about 01:21:54.090 --> 01:21:59.250

the movies. The story of the game is not even 01:21:59.250 --> 01:22:01.630 about Marissa. The story of the game is about 01:22:01.630 --> 01:22:07.510 the one. And so what is her core conflict and 01:22:07.510 --> 01:22:11.850 how does it relate to what us as the players... 01:22:12.449 --> 01:22:15.510 are supposed to derive from the meaning of the 01:22:15.510 --> 01:22:19.590 game. So if the main plot of the game, if the 01:22:19.590 --> 01:22:22.229 main plot of the narrative is the one's journey 01:22:22.229 --> 01:22:26.510 of trying to learn what it is to make a good 01:22:26.510 --> 01:22:28.569 movie, trying to learn what it is to make something 01:22:28.569 --> 01:22:32.720 that will be important to humans, what is our 01:22:32.720 --> 01:22:36.779 takeaway from that? I see. Yeah, I'm picking 01:22:36.779 --> 01:22:38.319 up what you're putting down in the sense that 01:22:38.319 --> 01:22:41.550 you're making a lot of sense to me. With what 01:22:41.550 --> 01:22:43.470 you're saying here. I just personally hadn't 01:22:43.470 --> 01:22:46.310 thought of it this way. I like your reading, 01:22:46.369 --> 01:22:50.869 though. One thing about the one and the other 01:22:50.869 --> 01:22:56.470 one that kind of pervades through the theme of 01:22:56.470 --> 01:23:01.189 the game is that they're kind of arrogant and 01:23:01.189 --> 01:23:04.430 all -powerful and have this attitude towards 01:23:04.430 --> 01:23:09.210 humanity that is antagonistic whenever you... 01:23:09.479 --> 01:23:11.319 It kind of bothers me that we haven't talked 01:23:11.319 --> 01:23:14.659 about now that we've gotten here. And I kind 01:23:14.659 --> 01:23:17.420 of brought it up with the dude getting his head 01:23:17.420 --> 01:23:21.600 beat in is all the times that they kind of tortured 01:23:21.600 --> 01:23:28.970 the humans. Yeah. And to add to what I mean by 01:23:28.970 --> 01:23:34.460 this is the immortals are able effectively to 01:23:34.460 --> 01:23:38.220 like stop time or manipulate the passage of time. 01:23:39.390 --> 01:23:43.949 break the fourth wall and inhabit a scene and 01:23:43.949 --> 01:23:46.850 be in a scene and interact with humans where 01:23:46.850 --> 01:23:50.229 the humans know they're being interacted with, 01:23:50.409 --> 01:23:54.470 but probably won't have any memory of it. And 01:23:54.539 --> 01:23:59.039 I guess kind of where do those things fit into 01:23:59.039 --> 01:24:02.720 the themes of the game? Cause it's like, that's 01:24:02.720 --> 01:24:05.340 kind of what I'm getting at, right? Is like, 01:24:06.300 --> 01:24:10.920 Even when they are manipulating time, even when 01:24:10.920 --> 01:24:13.079 they are trying to get at the ability, they are 01:24:13.079 --> 01:24:17.300 so detached from humanity that they can't conceptualize 01:24:17.300 --> 01:24:19.600 how to get what they need out of people. Look, 01:24:20.180 --> 01:24:22.880 I did a lot of directing when I was in college. 01:24:23.159 --> 01:24:27.449

As I got more... like deeper into my collegiate 01:24:27.449 --> 01:24:29.970 career I was doing less acting and more directing 01:24:29.970 --> 01:24:33.649 as a director the main thing that you have to 01:24:33.649 --> 01:24:36.909 do is learn how to get what you want out of the 01:24:36.909 --> 01:24:39.430 actors because if you just tell them exactly 01:24:39.430 --> 01:24:42.130 what you want they're not always like they might 01:24:42.130 --> 01:24:44.770 have their own idea of how to do something they 01:24:44.770 --> 01:24:47.710 might have their own like belief and how you 01:24:47.710 --> 01:24:49.829 want it done or whatever they might misinterpret 01:24:49.829 --> 01:24:52.229 what you're saying your goal is not just to tell 01:24:52.229 --> 01:24:55.640 the actors how to do things your goal is to figure 01:24:55.640 --> 01:24:58.300 out how to get them what get them to do what 01:24:58.300 --> 01:25:00.640 you want them to do and sometimes it's not even 01:25:00.640 --> 01:25:03.340 like telling them directly to do something specific 01:25:03.340 --> 01:25:06.560 it's like to give them a suggestion to lead them 01:25:06.560 --> 01:25:10.319 in that direction the immortals don't have any 01:25:10.319 --> 01:25:14.100 concept of like soft skills with people yeah 01:25:14.100 --> 01:25:17.560 because they don't they don't interact with people 01:25:17.560 --> 01:25:19.659 a whole lot their you know their understanding 01:25:19.659 --> 01:25:22.439 of people is like stilted by their own experiences 01:25:23.710 --> 01:25:25.750 These scenes where they're like so frustrated 01:25:25.750 --> 01:25:28.430 and just like trying to get people to like understand 01:25:28.430 --> 01:25:31.609 or like see what they're trying to do are a direct 01:25:31.609 --> 01:25:34.729 result of them like not having a real connection 01:25:34.729 --> 01:25:38.699 to humanity. But yeah. Is there anything left 01:25:38.699 --> 01:25:42.800 unsaid about this game? Lots. That you want on 01:25:42.800 --> 01:25:47.039 the pod? No. Okay. I'm going to levy one criticism 01:25:47.039 --> 01:25:50.960 against this game. A lot of times. A lot of times. 01:25:51.560 --> 01:25:53.859 their messaging and their intent for a scene 01:25:53.859 --> 01:25:56.640 is stilted by the mechanical need of the game 01:25:56.640 --> 01:25:58.439 for them to hold something up to the camera that 01:25:58.439 --> 01:26:01.300 you're meant to click on and go, hmm, look at 01:26:01.300 --> 01:26:05.560 this crucifix -shaped amulet. Hmm, how queer. 01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:09.359 It'd be like, after about the tenth time of doing 01:26:09.359 --> 01:26:12.460 that, I was like, Sam, I get it. Do they have 01:26:12.460 --> 01:26:17.020 to keep... So many apples. But then the interesting 01:26:17.020 --> 01:26:19.739 part is like, oh, well, let me look at the things 01:26:19.739 --> 01:26:22.539 in the background that I can click on. Like this 01:26:22.539 --> 01:26:24.699 background actor or whatever. I thought of a 01:26:24.699 --> 01:26:28.439 second criticism. How many times did I have to 01:26:28.439 --> 01:26:31.239 go into that fucking scene of that friar finger 01:26:31.239 --> 01:26:34.439 fucking the orange? Oh, my fucking God. I got 01:26:34.439 --> 01:26:37.640 so fucking tired of that goddamn scene. Oh, my 01:26:37.640 --> 01:26:42.989 God. Fucking rude. It's the nastiest. Most visceral 01:26:42.989 --> 01:26:46.409 reaction. And I watched people just bareback 01:26:46.409 --> 01:26:49.970 fucking and fucking reenacting rape. And I had 01:26:49.970 --> 01:26:52.970 to see this friar just fucking close up on the 01:26:52.970 --> 01:26:55.829 hands, treating this orange like a vagina, just 01:26:55.829 --> 01:26:58.130 knuckle deep in this thing. And I fucking hated 01:26:58.130 --> 01:27:00.350 it. I'm probably going to cut this, but fucking, 01:27:00.430 --> 01:27:02.930 oh my God. Don't cut this. This is gold. This 01:27:02.930 --> 01:27:06.489 is a fucking nasty ass scene, dude. This is probably, 01:27:06.750 --> 01:27:10.489 I don't give a lot of games 10 out of 10s. I 01:27:10.489 --> 01:27:14.300 think. In the entirety of my log, I think I have 01:27:14.300 --> 01:27:19.520 maybe somewhere between 9 to 12 10s. But this 01:27:19.520 --> 01:27:25.779 is up there for me. And you always have to meet 01:27:25.779 --> 01:27:28.720 games where they're at and what it is. And I 01:27:28.720 --> 01:27:31.140 think for what this game is and what it is trying 01:27:31.140 --> 01:27:34.000 to do, it is basically a perfect game. Yeah. 01:27:34.579 --> 01:27:38.279 I can agree with that. In the grand scheme of 01:27:38.279 --> 01:27:41.159 games, I can't argue with the people that don't 01:27:41.159 --> 01:27:45.300 think it's much of a game, but as far as a form 01:27:45.300 --> 01:27:48.640 of interactive media that has a story and a message 01:27:48.640 --> 01:27:51.600 to tell, I can't really find that much wrong 01:27:51.600 --> 01:27:56.119 with it. If you're a games as art enjoyer, which 01:27:56.119 --> 01:28:00.500 I hope you are if you're on with us, but I would 01:28:00.500 --> 01:28:03.420 find out a very limiting worldview of what a 01:28:03.420 --> 01:28:06.659 video game is and can be. to say this isn't a 01:28:06.659 --> 01:28:11.060 video game yeah yeah and it's the thing is is 01:28:11.060 --> 01:28:13.439 like if you're saying it's not a game because 01:28:13.439 --> 01:28:15.939 of the limited ways in which you can interact 01:28:15.939 --> 01:28:20.359 with it i have to ask you did you actually interact 01:28:20.359 --> 01:28:22.939 with it in all the ways you could interact with 01:28:22.939 --> 01:28:26.079 it and did you think about those methods of interaction 01:28:26.079 --> 01:28:30.640 and i don't think you did like i there's so much 01:28:30.640 --> 01:28:34.189 first off three times more mechanics than pong 01:28:34.189 --> 01:28:38.609 and that's a game i mean that's true but like 01:28:38.609 -->

01:28:41.949 you know like like maybe maybe 1 .5 times the 01:28:41.949 --> 01:28:44.229 mechanics of pac -man true right like and that's 01:28:44.229 --> 01:28:49.350 a game when you think about what a video game 01:28:49.350 --> 01:28:55.729 is or can be if your limitation is that you have 01:28:55.729 --> 01:28:58.909 to watch a movie to play this game and therefore 01:28:58.909 --> 01:29:02.390 it is not a game I just think your idea of a 01:29:02.390 --> 01:29:05.189 game is too small. Sometimes video games are 01:29:05.189 --> 01:29:09.810 three feature -length films that all are fictional 01:29:09.810 --> 01:29:14.689 and metatextual. Yeah, great game. Absolutely 01:29:14.689 --> 01:29:17.750 great game. Really reaffirms my belief that I'll 01:29:17.750 --> 01:29:20.789 say 95 % of interesting artistic things happen 01:29:20.789 --> 01:29:23.329 with video games are happening in the indie space. 01:29:23.930 --> 01:29:28.050 Yeah, I agree. On the day that we're recording 01:29:28.050 --> 01:29:30.210 this, Sony officially announced that they're... 01:29:30.880 --> 01:29:33.619 phasing out physical don't get me started man 01:29:33.619 --> 01:29:36.020 don't get me started well I think that's just 01:29:36.020 --> 01:29:42.539 a you know a easy way to show that like AAA studios 01:29:42.539 --> 01:29:45.699 are always gonna prioritize profit over anything 01:29:45.699 --> 01:29:48.619 else and like indie indie artists are gonna have 01:29:48.619 --> 01:29:51.060 like the freedom to just like make the things 01:29:51.060 --> 01:29:52.659 they wanna make their only restriction usually 01:29:52.659 --> 01:29:56.710 is budget yeah yeah but as a result you know 01:29:56.710 --> 01:30:00.409 famous Mark Rosewater saying restrictions breed 01:30:00.409 --> 01:30:04.489 creativity. It's true. Which is why magic sucks 01:30:04.489 --> 01:30:06.829 now. There's no restrictions anymore. There's 01:30:06.829 --> 01:30:10.670 no restrictions. And now it's Fortnite. Next 01:30:10.670 --> 01:30:13.829 time, we're going to be talking about, funnily 01:30:13.829 --> 01:30:16.510 enough, a follow -up to the last episode we did, 01:30:16.750 --> 01:30:19.069 Alan Wake, and we're going to be talking about 01:30:19.069 --> 01:30:22.270 Control. That game's dense in a different way. 01:30:22.859 --> 01:30:25.699 And then it has one of Sam's favorite things 01:30:25.699 --> 01:30:27.159 to happen in a video game, which is where you 01:30:27.159 --> 01:30:31.350 stop the action completely to read a page. I 01:30:31.350 --> 01:30:36.329 love having lore dumps where I can't interact 01:30:36.329 --> 01:30:38.369 with anything. It makes you feel better. There's 01:30:38.369 --> 01:30:41.369 a lot of redacted stuff. No one would describe 01:30:41.369 --> 01:30:43.250 what's happening in Control as dumps because 01:30:43.250 --> 01:30:47.439 very little is to be gleaned. It's different. 01:30:47.579 --> 01:30:49.739 It'll be fun. So we'll have Control. And funnily 01:30:49.739 --> 01:30:51.479 enough, by the time we get that episode out, 01:30:51.600 --> 01:30:53.840 Control Resident might be out. Is that coming 01:30:53.840 --> 01:30:56.920 out soon? It comes out in September. So it'll 01:30:56.920 --> 01:31:00.539 brush up against it. So good timing, funnily 01:31:00.539 --> 01:31:02.399 enough. I think Control Resident is going to 01:31:02.399 --> 01:31:05.140 be Remedy's last good video game. That's my hot 01:31:05.140 --> 01:31:07.380 take. I think Remedy is going to get closed after 01:31:07.380 --> 01:31:09.920 Control Resident. That's a more real possibility. 01:31:10.319 --> 01:31:12.939 In that case, it would still be their last good 01:31:12.939 --> 01:31:15.510 video game. Their CEO is like a... Their new 01:31:15.510 --> 01:31:18.489 CEO after FPC Firebreak failed is like a crypto 01:31:18.489 --> 01:31:21.670 gambling guy. Wonderful. Yeah, that's it for 01:31:21.670 --> 01:31:24.439 us today. Thanks for tuning in and listening 01:31:24.439 --> 01:31:27.739 to us talk about insane immortal theories for 01:31:27.739 --> 01:31:30.779 two hours. This game was so cool. This game makes 01:31:30.779 --> 01:31:32.640 me happy that we started this podcast. This is 01:31:32.640 --> 01:31:35.340 exactly what I was envisioning. This is one of 01:31:35.340 --> 01:31:37.479 the few games we covered that you can purchase 01:31:37.479 --> 01:31:41.260 on mobile. So this is a game where you are not. 01:31:41.689 --> 01:31:44.189 restricted in any real way to be able to play. 01:31:44.270 --> 01:31:45.909 You can play on a computer. It's available on 01:31:45.909 --> 01:31:47.909 most consoles. It's literally available on the 01:31:47.909 --> 01:31:50.149 thing that's in your pocket right now. Cut that 01:31:50.149 --> 01:31:51.789 and put it at the beginning of the podcast. Yeah, 01:31:51.829 --> 01:31:54.289 that's true. What won Game of the Year in 2022? 01:31:55.270 --> 01:31:57.930 God of War Ragnarok or something? Jeff, what 01:31:57.930 --> 01:32:00.050 the fuck are we doing, man? Now, to be fair, 01:32:00.109 --> 01:32:03.909 this game did win Best Actor a number of times. 01:32:03.909 --> 01:32:06.369 It won several BAFTAs, didn't it? Yeah, it won 01:32:06.369 --> 01:32:09.619 some BAFTAs. Marissa, the lady who played Marissa 01:32:09.619 --> 01:32:13.750 Marcel, something gauge one man engage man engage 01:32:13.750 --> 01:32:16.210 one i think she's also the voice of a character 01:32:16.210 --> 01:32:20.250 elden ring what jeff jeff buddy what are we doing 01:32:20.250 --> 01:32:24.670 man no i played elden ring for 90 hours and i 01:32:24.670 --> 01:32:27.970 didn't feel anything in my soul that was a tenth 01:32:27.970 --> 01:32:32.029 as resonant as like the shittiest moment of immortality 01:32:32.029 --> 01:32:35.890 i felt more watching that fucking fryer finger 01:32:35.890 --> 01:32:41.250 the orange than i did when i beat Remember, the 01:32:41.250 --> 01:32:43.909 worst thing a piece of art can be is boring. 01:32:44.149 --> 01:32:47.210 Boring as hell. Not that Elden Ring is boring. 01:32:47.630 --> 01:32:55.289 Like, comment, subscribe, or review. And if we 01:32:55.289 --> 01:32:59.890 get 100 likes, Buck will release some algae into 01:32:59.890 --> 01:33:02.470 the Washington Reflecting Pool.