النص الكامل لحلقة How Conversational AI Is Changing Discovery for Brands and Media

or what's becoming known as AIO, AI engine optimization, that's based on just those new ways that people um are searching. 00:04:59.829 --> 00:05:00.550 That's crazy. 00:05:00.550 --> 00:05:03.829 Yeah, um I could see I can see where that that makes a big difference. 00:05:03.829 --> 00:05:06.790 It's also very helpful because it's very personalized, right? 00:05:07.030 --> 00:05:07.269 Yeah. 00:05:07.509 --> 00:05:17.750 Um when so when you look at the tools that consumers are using, like ChatGPT or Google's AI overviews, uh, what do you think they change most about the way people research products or make decisions? 00:05:18.230 --> 00:05:20.389 So one, it's that natural language. 00:05:20.389 --> 00:05:25.350 Um, and I think that that again is just more natural um to the way we think. 00:05:25.350 --> 00:05:29.910 Um, and and that's sort of slowly, or actually I should say it's quickly assimilating. 00:05:29.910 --> 00:05:35.750 Um, you know, it's gonna take a while to untrain the world on the way they used to search, but that's happening faster and faster. 00:05:35.750 --> 00:05:57.509 So so it's that natural language, but also I think something interesting that's like another layer of advancement on top of that is something we talked about on our last podcast about um ChatGPT's ad program or developing ad program, which is that a lot of these AI engines, including Google AI mode and their overviews, sort of have a memory. 00:05:57.509 --> 00:06:10.389 So you can have a dialogue that remembers, like the engine remembers that, you know, the conversation you had three weeks ago, or just basic stuff like the fact that you have two kids, a dog, and a nut allergy, right? 00:06:10.389 --> 00:06:12.150 It'll incorporate those things. 00:06:12.150 --> 00:06:18.550 And I think on top of that, the thing that's interesting is the capability to make it more like a dialogue. 00:06:18.550 --> 00:06:22.949 Like if you picture the old search world, you're you're researching a product, right? 00:06:22.949 --> 00:06:28.230 And you you ask a question, and then you sort of have another question, maybe a follow-up question. 00:06:28.230 --> 00:06:30.310 You start a new search with that follow-up question. 00:06:30.310 --> 00:06:35.269 In this way, it's just these these questions and answers build on each other just like a human dialogue. 00:06:35.269 --> 00:06:36.949 So these multi-part questions. 00:06:36.949 --> 00:06:41.750 That's that's sort of a hallmark of Google's AI mode, and Chat GBT can do it. 00:06:41.750 --> 00:06:53.110 So it's sort of this more of a back and forth um that builds on itself as opposed to these isolated one-off queries that you might do 20 of them in the same process of researching like a new TV. 00:06:53.910 --> 00:06:56.710 So it solves the time consumption in queries, right? 00:06:56.710 --> 00:07:01.670 But like what other problems are AI solving um that search results never quite nailed? 00:07:01.670 --> 00:07:03.189 You know, because that's a good example. 00:07:03.189 --> 00:07:04.550 Is there other ones out there? 00:07:04.550 --> 00:07:10.470 Like what about like for visual or in the you said it conversations and the deep discovery? 00:07:10.870 --> 00:07:14.069 Um I I think the uh visual is actually a great example. 00:07:14.069 --> 00:07:21.670 So visual search is something that again is not new, like a lot of this isn't new, it's just really accelerating and um getting more capable, so it's getting a lot more attention. 00:07:21.670 --> 00:07:30.389 But visual search, such as Google Lens, has always been something where you hold up your phone and you take a picture of something, and it's great with like if you're on a nature hike, right? 00:07:30.389 --> 00:07:33.030 It's it's like plants and animals and pets. 00:07:33.030 --> 00:07:34.629 Like, what kind of dog is that? 00:07:34.629 --> 00:07:47.189 But I think that it's being incorporated in in ways on the desktop more where it's like shopping-related searches, and like I'm looking for something and you see visual results, and you're saying you can say something like, I like that, but does it come in blue? 00:07:47.189 --> 00:07:52.710 Like it's it's it's multimodal in that it's both text or voice input, but also visual. 00:07:52.710 --> 00:07:56.310 So I think that multimodal capability just opens up new dimension, right? 00:07:56.310 --> 00:07:57.350 In the way that we search. 00:07:57.350 --> 00:07:59.590 So we're not always describing things. 00:07:59.590 --> 00:08:08.069 And for certain types of searches, the ability to search with visuals as opposed to words makes sense, like um, you know, fashion, right? 00:08:08.069 --> 00:08:10.710 Fashion's a good example, or probably a lot of other examples. 00:08:10.710 --> 00:08:11.350 Yeah, totally. 00:08:12.629 --> 00:08:19.110 I mean, for local, I mean thinking auto is one of the top categories and spend for auto, um, um for local, sorry. 00:08:19.110 --> 00:08:20.310 Yeah, yeah. 00:08:20.310 --> 00:08:21.430 Okay, cool. 00:08:21.430 --> 00:08:21.910 Yeah. 00:08:21.910 --> 00:08:23.670 So do you think this just changes how people? 00:08:23.670 --> 00:08:28.069 I mean, we talked a lot about how people have changed their behavior um with search. 00:08:28.069 --> 00:08:35.110 Um, but does it also change how quickly they move from that uh discovery research to decision? 00:08:35.509 --> 00:08:36.230 Uh totally. 00:08:36.230 --> 00:08:40.309 I think that that that we talked about this last last week too, or at least alluded to it. 00:08:40.309 --> 00:08:50.470 The that that convoluted path to purchase that we've always looked at in in local search and local media, where like people are weaving in and out of different devices and screens. 00:08:50.470 --> 00:09:04.789 And you know, there are some ways that that could be compressed in AI search in in terms of like there's again, it's that conversational just back and forth, and you just arrive upon an answer sooner

with less steps and less you know things. 00:09:04.789 --> 00:09:17.669 But also the fact that there's less of a click stream where the old model, the Google search engine result page SERP model, was all about links and surfacing links, and then you go to that link and oh, that didn't have what I want. 00:09:17.669 --> 00:09:23.110 We start over, and you're now it's just it's all in that same UX, that same answer. 00:09:23.110 --> 00:09:24.230 It's all right there. 00:09:24.230 --> 00:09:25.750 And that's a good thing and a bad thing. 00:09:25.750 --> 00:09:35.909 We talked about last week how the performance-based, click-based model of online advertising that we've come to know and love is sort of eroding because there's less click-throughs, right? 00:09:35.909 --> 00:09:37.509 The answer is right there. 00:09:37.509 --> 00:09:40.070 So I think that there's a lot of implications for marketing. 00:09:40.070 --> 00:09:45.990 But to answer your question, yeah, I think it could make a more compressed purchase funnel in a lot of cases. 00:09:46.470 --> 00:09:53.110 Didn't we also talk that there'd be we were talking, I think we were brainstorming last time about new measurability for that too, for that behavior, right? 00:09:53.430 --> 00:09:53.669 Totally. 00:09:53.669 --> 00:09:55.430 Like how do you measure it when there's no click? 00:09:55.430 --> 00:09:56.549 That's an open question. 00:09:56.870 --> 00:09:58.470 Right, exactly. 00:09:58.470 --> 00:10:05.430 So when you talk about AI search and AI overviews, how do you define those in in practical terms for an SEO team? 00:10:05.430 --> 00:10:07.190 So getting into the SEO side of this. 00:10:07.509 --> 00:10:13.350 Yeah, let's transition into that, like what this all means for the point of marketers and SEO people, totally. 00:10:13.350 --> 00:10:18.629 So, as you can guess from everything we just talked about, the online visibility playbook has changed. 00:10:18.629 --> 00:10:25.590 So the the art of SEO has always been about reverse engineering the algorithms, Google's page rank algorithm. 00:10:25.590 --> 00:10:26.870 What are their ranking factors? 00:10:26.870 --> 00:10:27.830 How is that changing? 00:10:27.830 --> 00:10:29.350 It was always a moving target. 00:10:29.350 --> 00:10:31.990 Now, like that's still there, that hasn't gone away. 00:10:31.990 --> 00:10:38.389 But now there's also this like this sort of new entity out there that's providing answers, and that's all the stuff we're talking about. 00:10:38.389 --> 00:10:45.669 And similarly, it's going to be about reverse engineering the ways that it finds information, the way that it surfaces answers. 00:10:45.669 --> 00:10:51.750 And unfortunately for marketers, there's only some degree of overlap between the two. 00:10:51.750 --> 00:11:05.029 Like, there's been this sort of uh uh ongoing question of like, if I was on top of my SEO game, does that automatically put me on like a head start or higher footing in getting surfaced in AI engines? 00:11:05.029 --> 00:11:06.789 And the answer is like sort of. 00:11:06.789 --> 00:11:11.190 Um, I'll mention that SOShi study again, their local visibility index. 00:11:11.190 --> 00:11:15.909 They they basically measured a bunch of multi-location brands, right? 00:11:15.909 --> 00:11:25.909 And their search engine visibility and who was like performing best, and then their AI engine visibility, excuse me, and who was performing best. 00:11:25.909 --> 00:11:32.789 There was a 45% overlap in brands in the top 10 of each of those two respective lists. 00:11:32.789 --> 00:11:44.149 So that sort of quantifies that like those who are doing well at SEO, some of them are also doing the right things with AIO, as we're talking calling it AI optimization. 00:11:44.149 --> 00:11:51.830 So you sort of have to do the same things you were already doing with with search and SEO, but also this new set of rules. 00:11:51.830 --> 00:12:03.669 We can get into what those are, but that's just like an overview on like what these marketers are now faced with in having to sort of like serve two masters and appease the gods of Google and now also the LLM gods. 00:12:04.230 --> 00:12:10.710 Well, yeah, I mean, because like Google, you know, there's everybody, there's people have built careers off of good SEO, right? 00:12:10.710 --> 00:12:22.950 And it's not it's the keywords, it's the it's the content, you know, and all those things have rankings, it's reviews, it's new content, original, and AI, AI is that, but more, right? 00:12:22.950 --> 00:12:30.149 I mean, because they're it's you know, so what what you know what sources are they pulling from that's different? 00:12:30.230 --> 00:12:30.389 Yeah. 00:12:30.549 --> 00:12:31.029 Do you know? 00:12:31.029 --> 00:12:32.230 I mean totally, yeah, yeah. 00:12:32.310 --> 00:12:34.149 Let's let's get into a few of the different I don't. 00:12:34.310 --> 00:12:35.190 I I I kind of know. 00:12:35.190 --> 00:12:40.789 I think we talked about like I know that they're pulling from um, you know, more from video because it's easier. 00:12:40.789 --> 00:12:42.950 Um, that that's an easy one. 00:12:42.950 --> 00:12:54.230 Um, so because they because Google does the transcripts and they could they look at that, um, they don't actually watch the videos for those out there, but no, no, those those transcripts are gold mined for for L. 00:12:54.870 --> 00:12:55.990 Goldmine for training sources. 00:12:56.470 --> 00:12:58.950 And there's also, I think there was just a lawsuit too. 00:12:58.950 --> 00:13:08.950 There's a bunch of educators that are suing Google and YouTube because they scraped for educational purposes their YouTube videos and they're going after them to train their model. 00:13:08.950 --> 00:13:11.590 And I think we're gonna see a lot more of that, but that's how I know that. 00:13:11.590 --> 00:13:12.710 So I'm sorry, I digress. 00:13:12.950 --> 00:13:18.310 But no, no, let's let's go over, let's go over some

of those authoritative sources of AI engines. 00:13:18.310 --> 00:13:20.789 But before we do that, just a really quick, quick note. 00:13:20.789 --> 00:13:29.509 You mentioned that there are a lot of folks that have like built a career around being SEO experts and consulting brands on how to you know surface higher in Google. 00:13:29.509 --> 00:13:41.350 I think those folks are actually or the smart ones are actually gonna be elevated in this new world as opposed to like disrupted in a negative sense, because the all the brands out there now have so many more questions than they had before. 00:13:41.350 --> 00:13:49.029 And I think those SEO folks, the smart ones, are really jumping onto these new ranking factors and how they optimize and all that stuff like that. 00:13:49.029 --> 00:13:55.029 So, uh, and they're they're gonna be more needed than ever because there's more question marks and confusion than ever. 00:13:55.029 --> 00:14:01.430 But anyway, this is all a moving target, and it's all about reverse engineering and extrapolation, just like SEO was. 00:14:01.430 --> 00:14:07.830 So I'll go over a few of them that we sort of know so far, and then I just I preface it that way because this is a quickly moving target. 00:14:07.830 --> 00:14:15.590 But anyway, let's go back to the example we gave in like the longer, more nuanced local search query. 00:14:15.590 --> 00:14:20.950 The driving down the highway, looking for coffee, it's somewhere off, you know, within a mile off the highway. 00:14:20.950 --> 00:14:27.750 Just the granularity in those queries means that these AI engines have to like dig deeper, right? 00:14:27.750 --> 00:14:32.549 To answer that level of granularity than traditional search ever has. 00:14:32.549 --> 00:14:36.149 So, where do they find that long tail of granularity? 00:14:36.149 --> 00:14:37.110 A few places. 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:38.149 One is reviews. 00:14:38.149 --> 00:14:39.990 Reviews are more important now than ever. 00:14:39.990 --> 00:14:46.389 Yelp reviews, because you have just like these endless scrolling pages of like people talking about these things. 00:14:46.389 --> 00:14:52.950 So that's where the LLMs are going to train themselves to get these answers and synthesize the answers to these questions. 00:14:52.950 --> 00:14:54.629 So reviews is more important than ever. 00:14:54.629 --> 00:15:03.990 So the implication for marketers is it's always been pretty important to work on your reputation management and manage your reviews and respond to them and cultivate them and all that good stuff. 00:15:03.990 --> 00:15:05.590 That's now more important than ever. 00:15:05.590 --> 00:15:11.509 Another one for a very similar reason of that long tail content with all that granularity is Reddit. 00:15:11.509 --> 00:15:18.470 Reddit is the new golden goose of LLM, you know, this AIO, this developing art of AIO. 00:15:18.470 --> 00:15:19.430 Be on Reddit. 00:15:19.430 --> 00:15:26.230 Make sure you're there, make

sure you have an account and cultivate your brand and mention your brand and monitor it and all that good stuff. 00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:35.029 Um, another one, again, based on the ways that people are searching because they're they're asking questions instead of just typing in keywords, is FAQs on your website. 00:15:35.029 --> 00:15:36.310 This is a low-hanging fruit one. 00:15:36.310 --> 00:15:40.230 It's harder to like get people to write good reviews and get people to talk about you on Reddit. 00:15:40.230 --> 00:15:44.149 Low-hanging fruit, just put an FAQ on your website. 00:15:44.149 --> 00:15:49.909 And that sort of helps um the engines like see, oh, there's a question and an answer. 00:15:49.909 --> 00:15:53.350 We can we can work with that because that's the same way people are searching. 00:15:53.350 --> 00:15:56.710 Um, and then another one I'll mention is citations or back. 00:15:56.710 --> 00:16:01.830 Citations used to be a very um you know prominent Google ranking factor. 00:16:01.830 --> 00:16:06.629 And then there were a number of years where all the SEOs and Google was saying, like, you know, that's not as important anymore. 00:16:06.629 --> 00:16:15.350 And what I mean by citations is like, make sure you're mentioned by the trade press or make sure you're on like the local chamber of commerce membership website. 00:16:15.350 --> 00:16:20.230 Like Google used to treat that as authority, and now they they sort of pull back from now. 00:16:20.230 --> 00:16:22.149 That's now more important than ever. 00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:33.430 Um, and and one like tactical takeaway I heard recently is like go back to issuing press releases, issue press releases, you know, on like free wire services like PR log or other or just on your website. 00:16:33.430 --> 00:16:35.350 Um, so that's another one. 00:16:35.350 --> 00:16:45.750 Um, press releases, and and then I'll I'll mention something that is actually that LMs are not paying attention to that that Google has more importantly. 00:16:45.750 --> 00:16:53.110 So go uh Celine, you know this in in the past I don't know, five years or so, Google's been paying much more attention to technical SEO. 00:16:53.110 --> 00:16:58.549 So there's on-page SEO, which is the words you're saying, the keywords, the FAQs, all that. 00:16:58.549 --> 00:17:03.909 And then technical SEO is the stuff in the background that's like, do you have the proper schema markup? 00:17:03.909 --> 00:17:09.990 And are you utilizing your canonical tags strategically and page meta descriptions and core web vitals? 00:17:09.990 --> 00:17:12.470 That's another one that's really accelerated in the last five years. 00:17:12.470 --> 00:17:14.230 How fast is your page load? 00:17:14.230 --> 00:17:16.789 Properly sized images that load fast. 00:17:16.789 --> 00:17:18.869 Um, LMs don't care about any of that. 00:17:18.869 --> 00:17:21.349 So technical SEO is out. 00:17:21.349 --> 00:17:26.470 And I shouldn't say out because Google's still

there, right operating as Google does. 00:17:26.470 --> 00:17:42.390 But for this half of the searches that are happening on not half, I don't know what the breakdown is, but for the portion happening on AI engines, technical SEO is out, but all those other things that I mentioned are reviews, Reddit, FAQ, citations, and and that list just keeps growing. 00:17:43.029 --> 00:17:43.589 That's crazy. 00:17:43.589 --> 00:17:59.109 Well, I mean, it kind of makes sense because the technical is really there to kind of check off the boxes to say that this is an actual, you know, live working, breathing, current, you know, business farming product, not content farm. 00:17:59.109 --> 00:18:00.950 That was to fight the content farms. 00:18:00.950 --> 00:18:04.390 And yeah, so that's very interesting. 00:18:04.390 --> 00:18:08.549 So speaking of like FAQs, uh, are there particular query types? 00:18:08.549 --> 00:18:25.990 We talked about one, you know, getting coffee and being driving query types or verticals, um, where you're seeing that AI style answers take over faster, like or you know, because of consumer behavior or just because of the nature of what um of AI and what um what it's being used for, populari, you know, popularity. 00:18:26.230 --> 00:18:30.789 Yeah, I think popularity is the the right word because it sort of mirrors everything that's out there. 00:18:30.789 --> 00:18:34.870 Like, you know, LLMs train themselves on what's they're only as good as what's out there. 00:18:34.870 --> 00:18:47.029 So if you look at the different types of content out there that are more prevalent than others, I think that sort of answers your question in terms of like what they're doing a better job answering, what people are asking more. 00:18:47.029 --> 00:18:53.829 So you can think like, you know, sports, news, stocks, politics, um, they're all going to be rich sources of information. 00:18:53.829 --> 00:19:03.509 And I think that's a self-fulfilling prophecy because the more people ask those questions, the more answers are surfaced, the better the engines get because they learn, obviously. 00:19:03.509 --> 00:19:05.109 So I think that that that's the case. 00:19:05.109 --> 00:19:11.190 And then on another level, I think that there's, you know, that's just more of like a passive reality, like that's just inherent. 00:19:11.190 --> 00:19:20.069 But I think there's also some ways that these engines are sort of trying to manufacture some competency and specialization in different verticals. 00:19:20.069 --> 00:19:23.829 And we talked about them on the last podcast, which is um healthcare. 00:19:23.829 --> 00:19:33.990 Um, OpenII sees healthcare as like an area that is so rich in terms of specialized knowledge, uh, but also a very high value vertical. 00:19:33.990 --> 00:19:35.430 Another one is legal. 00:19:35.430 --> 00:19:42.870 Um, I read the other day that um Anthropic is building a sort of variant of Claude that's all about the legal vertical. 00:19:42.870

--> 00:19:51.750 And that one makes a lot of sense because like you picture law firms, you know, half their staff has like all these paralegals running around and looking up stuff and all that, and then a lot of that can be automated. 00:19:51.750 --> 00:19:53.269 They see a huge opportunity there. 00:19:53.269 --> 00:20:04.470 So I think it's a combination of just like the inherent share of topics on on the broader web, like that's gonna sort of mirror what what's happening in these LLMs. 00:20:04.470 --> 00:20:13.109 But um on another level, there's some deliberate maneuvering by some of these AI giants to sort of cultivate some of these high value verticals. 00:20:13.430 --> 00:20:13.750 Right. 00:20:13.750 --> 00:20:14.950 So retail, of course. 00:20:14.950 --> 00:20:16.150 I mean, we're seeing that all over the place. 00:20:16.150 --> 00:20:16.789 Totally. 00:20:16.789 --> 00:20:17.349 That's a big one. 00:20:17.509 --> 00:20:18.630 Shopping, I think, yeah, absolutely. 00:20:19.029 --> 00:20:19.750 Shopping is huge. 00:20:19.750 --> 00:20:20.150 Yes. 00:20:20.150 --> 00:20:20.549 Yeah. 00:20:20.789 --> 00:20:26.950 And also these ones we're talking about, I think I mentioned this for for healthcare, but these are all high vol, these are all monetizable verticals. 00:20:26.950 --> 00:20:40.870 So they're they're they're like salivating, not just in the they're big, but they're also high value because the commercial intent on a on a shopping search is gonna be greater than like the type of research you're doing for like a research paper or you know, stuff like that. 00:20:40.870 --> 00:20:43.750 You're not necessarily gonna buy something, you're just looking for knowledge. 00:20:44.950 --> 00:20:45.190 Right. 00:20:45.190 --> 00:20:45.750 Yeah. 00:20:45.750 --> 00:20:59.750 So from an advertiser's point of view, uh what's just what is the strategic appeal of answer adjacent placements, you know, and should you know, do they offer anything like it anything? 00:20:59.750 --> 00:21:02.470 What's the value for them to kind of really invest in this? 00:21:03.029 --> 00:21:03.430 Yeah. 00:21:03.430 --> 00:21:15.589 So um there are some signs, some evidence that the traffic is actually converting better, like traffic that comes from an AI agent um as opposed to traditional search. 00:21:15.589 --> 00:21:17.829 Um, and it's sort of a double-edged sword. 00:21:17.829 --> 00:21:28.309 Like you've probably heard all of the publishers and brands and anyone with a website sort of lamenting over the last year or more about the fact that their traffic has gone down because of the AI answer. 00:21:28.309 --> 00:21:33.430 You know, like we talked about earlier, there's less clicks happening because the answer, the question's answered right there. 00:21:33.430 --> 00:21:41.509 And so um, they're getting less clicks, but there is some evidence that the clicks they're getting are higher intent and better in terms of converting better. 00:21:41.509 --> 00:21:45.509 So I think this study came from Adobe, Adobe Shopping. 00:21:45.509 --> 00:21:57.670 Um they they found that their AI traffic or AI traffic in the sites that they were monitoring converted 42% better um than non non-AI traffic. 00:21:57.670 --> 00:22:03.190 And interestingly, a year ago they did that same study and it was 38% worse. 00:22:03.190 --> 00:22:13.349 Oh so it's it's like a massive difference in, I guess, just like the the way that people are starting to utilize these engines for shopping and for things that are converting. 00:22:13.349 --> 00:22:25.430 So I guess that's good news to answer your question about like how should brands think about prioritize like putting themselves there, um and and like paying attention to the everything we just mentioned, the AIO playbook. 00:22:25.430 --> 00:22:32.710 Like, not only is it important, but to underscore that it's high stakes and it's a missed opportunity, maybe if you don't go after it. 00:22:33.029 --> 00:22:33.269 Right. 00:22:33.269 --> 00:22:33.750 I mean. 00:22:33.750 --> 00:22:35.829 your c competition could be right. 00:22:35.829 --> 00:22:38.390 So it's it's like yeah yeah. 00:22:38.390 --> 00:22:43.269 So you know we talked about um a couple changes. 00:22:43.269 --> 00:22:51.990 Is there anything else that a brand um or marketer should prioritize in the next six to twelve six to twelve months for SEO strategy against AI answers. 00:22:51.990 --> 00:22:53.910 Anything can you predict the future? 00:22:53.910 --> 00:23:00.230 Anything well I would say or make a gas a good educated based on all your knowledge and experience? 00:23:00.549 --> 00:23:02.470 Yeah I would answer it this way. 00:23:02.470 --> 00:23:06.549 The the stakes I just I think I just said high stakes, right? 00:23:06.549 --> 00:23:23.509 The the the degree to which all the stuff we're talking about, how how heavy it is, how much gravity it actually has is only going to grow because it is a direct function of the number of searches that people are doing on like they're turning to chat GPT instead of a Google traditional search. 00:23:23.509 --> 00:23:33.509 The more that happens the more market share that AI engines gain in terms of like query volume, the more important it's going to be to pay attention to all this stuff. 00:23:33.509 --> 00:23:35.509 And I think that's only going to grow. 00:23:35.509 --> 00:23:54.789 So I think like in terms of the how and something more concrete or tactical, I would say that marketing teams need to learn this stuff, become experts in AIO, play with it, learn by doing I think that um you know that should be just an extension of the things you're already doing and and don't ignore it. 00:23:54.789 --> 00:23:57.430 You know, don't let it uh catch up with you. 00:23:57.430 --> 00:24:00.630 I think that's very important because it's happening so fast. 00:24:00.870 --> 00:24:01.190 Right. 00:24:01.190 --> 00:24:01.509 Yeah. 00:24:01.509 --> 00:24:34.710 Well and talk to your SEO consultants too because they're on top of it apparently right they are yeah so well Mike thank you so much for being here today and sharing your thoughts and insights we always appreciate I you know I do we always appreciate your value and time with us right um so anything any other parting knowledge are we good um no no this was fun thank you thank you for having me and what I'll say is like to echo what I just said which is this is moving so fast like we could do another episode in two weeks on the same exact topic and probably have like a new list of you know ranking factors. 00:24:34.789 --> 00:24:37.670 So so this is going to be moving quickly and we're gonna stay on top of it. 00:24:37.910 --> 00:24:40.470 Yeah I think I you know I would love to have you back. 00:24:40.470 --> 00:24:46.150 I think we should you know circle back on this in a couple um in a couple weeks or a month or so and see what's changed. 00:24:46.150 --> 00:24:54.150 That would be a great follow-up to this and for everyone out there listening thank you for joining us and we might have another one coming soon. 00:24:54.150 --> 00:24:56.710 Um we hope you're enjoying our podcast this year. 00:24:56.710 --> 00:25:04.470 And if you have any topics or you want to see us talk more about this to suggest or you want to come on in as a guest, reach out to us at podcast@bia.com. 00:25:05.910 --> 00:25:10.230 We look forward to bringing you more insightful conversations on local media throughout the year ahead. 00:25:10.230 --> 00:25:10.710 Thanks