النص الكامل لحلقة Building Authentic Relationships for Long-Term Success

whatever. [2:59] We still receive business from her, [3:02] do business with her and get referrals from her. [3:06] And when I drafted Amy, [3:08] I tracked seven figures back to this one person. [3:12] That says it all to be incredible. [3:15] Or at the value of relationships. [3:17] Yeah, and I really like what you said [3:18] about meeting for coffee and having lunch. [3:21] I feel the same way. [3:22] I meet people in person. [3:24] And I think that's probably whenever I can. [3:26] I have a lot of Zoom meetings too. [3:27] But I think that in person part is so integral [3:31] to having relationships over time [3:33] that lead to a lot of opportunities. [3:36] And sometimes when we meet people, [3:38] we don't always talk about quote unquote business, right? [3:42] We really talk about our lives, what's going on. [3:46] Where we're traveling. [3:47] I mean, this particular person last time we met up for coffee, [3:51] it was like, you know, the Pilates [3:53] versus some gardening things, then business, [3:56] then circle back to some visionary work [3:59] and then, you know, some connections [4:01] and then it went back to honestly, went back to Pilates. [4:04] Yes. [4:05] Well, I think what people don't understand [4:07] about building relationships that lead to opportunities [4:10] is first of all, it's not always about, you know, [4:12] just giving someone your business card, [4:14] expecting they're going to call you. [4:15] That really works. [4:16] It's more about getting to know someone first as a person. [4:19] And I remember reading the autobiography [4:22] of the guy who started Zappos, [4:24] the really successful shoe company. [4:26] And what he said is that the average networking meeting [4:30] takes about seven years to pay off. [4:32] And you never know how it's going to pay off. [4:34] And he gave this example of having a meeting with someone [4:38] didn't think it would go anywhere. [4:39] And then seven years later, [4:41] this person knew a realtor who they referred to him [4:44] and it helped him to buy his new house. [4:47] So I think it's about being open to how an opportunity [4:51] might show up. [4:52] So why is it that attorneys? [4:55] And I hope that I jumped in for a sec. [4:58] Because you brought up the CEO of Zappos [5:01] probably about 15 years ago. [5:03] I had the opportunity to tour their factory. [5:06] They're all out in Las Vegas. [5:09] And maybe it was in Henderson, Las Vegas, [5:12] some town outside, don't quote me. [5:15] And we got to on this tour, they're like, [5:18] you may like when we go into the department, [5:20] like they know we're coming through [5:21] and you actually may just sit down and talk to anyone. [5:24] So hello, I did. [5:27] And I remember this conversation [5:29] because it was, it talked about relationship building. [5:32] And they, they were chatting with them. [5:35] It was myself and two other people [5:36] and we're asking them some questions. [5:39] And it's like, well, every person [5:40] sits on a customer service desk. [5:42] I'm out of what role you're in. [5:44] Customer service, like speaking to your clients, [5:47] your customers is key. [5:50] And I'm like, well, what's the craziest thing [5:52] that makes this company different [5:55] in customer service to your perspective? [5:58] And they said, we get a discretionary fund [6:01] that if we speak to somebody [6:03] and we want to do something, we can do it. [6:06] And I'm like, what are you talking about? [6:08] What does that need? [6:10] And this gentleman shared an example. [6:13] He goes, this woman called in a very distressed tone [6:18] and they're like, I need a pair of black shoes. [6:21] There's a funeral, my clothes, whoever, [6:23] like parent or a spout, like died. [6:25] And I need this now. [6:27] And they're like, slow down. [6:30] I will get you everything you need. [6:31] And he goes, I just started filling [6:33] and I get sent several options [6:35] and I asked the woman in the address [6:37] and then I said, where is the future? [6:40] Where is the service to the funeral? [6:42] And he goes, and I use that discretionary ability [6:46] to send flowers on behalf of my name and the company. [6:52] Now, let's talk about customer loyalty and retention. [6:56] And in every business book you could talk about [6:59] doing business with people you know like and trust. [7:02] And that's the power of building those relationships. [7:05] We're on that relationship meter of no like and trust. [7:08] Does this person now see that organization? [7:13] So if you're a lawyer, when you're a law firm, [7:16] when you're building that, [7:18] when you have any situation, [7:20] you watch your first call and then that relationship, [7:25] not the attorney, the relationship. [7:28] So we understand this. [7:29] And I think most really successful people [7:32] understand the importance of relationships. [7:34] But why is it that attorneys, a lot of them I work with [7:37] and I'm sure you have this experience here, [7:39] they don't understand the need to take time [7:42] to have relationships with others [7:44] and to make these kinds of connections [7:45] and to really show empathy and show a human side [7:50] instead of just transactional. [7:51] What is that all about? [7:53] Attorneys get caught up in and they're not wrong [7:57] in the billable hour. [7:59] Yeah, like I have to bill, I have to bill, I have to bill. [8:02] And I'm thinking as you asked this question, [8:04] two different clients came to mind. [8:06] Okay, and one is I had a conversation [8:10] about building more relationships and getting out there [8:13] and you know, and like I used to do that, [8:15] I just need to sit at my desk and build my own. [8:18] And I was like, well, isn't it interesting [8:21] if you took like the two hour period [8:24] and you developed X amount of relationships [8:27] in that time of the people you're already now [8:29] when you hosted a lunch of

maybe four people, you know, [8:34] three, four, five people and you hosted it [8:37] and then what business would that drive to not just you [8:41] but your entire organization [8:43] that has that ripple effect and growth. [8:47] And there's another client [8:49] that when we started working together, [8:51] you know, I was asking about like what is she do [8:54] for networking and to do just like, well, [8:55] I like to speak and it's like, how do you follow up [8:58] and what are you and I can just, well, [9:00] I used to work blah, blah, blah, blah. [9:03] And before I started my own firm, [9:05] and now if I think about it, I probably have [9:08] and she's thinking and thinking and thinking [9:10] and looking at the sky, maybe 102 to 50 individual people [9:16] that I was like, okay, slow down. [9:18] So you're sitting on a goldmine. [9:20] You're sitting on a goldmine. [9:23] And when we think about that long-term legacy [9:25] for the firm, if we cultivate these several hundred [9:30] relationships, what's that long-term legacy [9:34] from when she builds as she scales, [9:38] even as she takes vacation and she has other staff, [9:41] what's it's not about just sitting at your desk [9:43] to do the work. [9:45] Yes. [9:46] And you build that kind of network. [9:48] You have an abundance of referrals and network [9:52] to not just feed you the defeated team [9:56] and that's scaling and that's leveraging. [9:59] Yeah, so I really like the way you talk about this [10:02] because you're speaking in ways that attorneys, [10:04] I think, can really relate to and value [10:06] your quantifying how relationships can be effective [10:10] at helping you build your business. [10:13] So if an attorney is listening right now [10:16] and really gets it, they hope they are right. [10:20] What if they're saying, okay, [10:21] I see the value of relationship building. [10:24] You've got my attention, but what if they then say, [10:27] but I just don't have time. [10:28] Where am I going to work that in? [10:29] Because I still have to get the billable hours. [10:32] How do I find time to actually develop connections [10:35] with people? [10:36] What do we tell them? [10:37] It's the, Amy, it is a great question [10:40] and it's something I get asked a lot [10:42] and I get a lot of pushback. [10:44] I personally remember you and I are still business owners. [10:49] Okay. [10:51] So we have the same problem as the attorneys. [10:55] So how do I find the time? [10:57] Is the first thing I love you for is if I can do it, [11:01] what, how can I help others do it? [11:03] So the first thing I do for myself [11:05] and then I got my clients is I want, [11:07] I like an organized schedule, okay? [11:10] I am not networking five days a week. [11:13] I am not running like a, like the road runner [11:16] from the cartoon today in every directions [11:19] and going 100 miles an hour and getting nowhere. [11:22] I think about things very strategically. [11:25] So I

pick a couple of groups to get truly involved in. [11:29] Truly involved in, right? [11:31] So I'm at a leadership capacity. [11:34] People know me, I know them. [11:36] I get, I get that together with the groups. [11:39] I will see them outside. [11:40] I will talk to people. [11:42] I put things on my calendar very in an organized fashion, [11:47] meaning I prefer when I can not to do lunches. [11:52] It's the middle of the day. [11:53] It disrupts the flow, but I will do early morning [11:58] get togethers. [11:59] I will do the end of the day get togethers [12:01] and very often sometimes it's with one person, [12:04] but I also strategically try to do several people [12:07] and I pull people together [12:09] because I think it's helpful to introduce other people. [12:12] We're doing a gift forward for them. [12:15] What mirrors back to us is we look at a, [12:17] as a higher level leader by doing it. [12:20] Yes. [12:21] That's right. [12:22] We are bringing people together to introduce, [12:25] to refer and that could be some different lawyers [12:28] in different fields. [12:29] It might be a financial person, a CPA or some other, [12:32] some other resources that are helpful to people's networks, [12:38] people from different cities. [12:39] So I'm heading to Chicago in a couple of days [12:43] to speak at a conference, [12:45] I'm speaking on succession planning. [12:47] And so I'm also seeing a whole bunch of people [12:50] I know in Chicago. [12:52] And I'm also reintroducing people to one another. [12:55] So leverage, leverage, leverage, last. [12:59] I saw that in action when we met, [13:00] because we met at a conference in Florida [13:03] in Fort Lauderdale and as part of your time [13:07] at this week-long conference, [13:08] you were not only meeting people there, like you met me, [13:12] but you also sent me a couple of times. [13:13] I'm going to Miami because I have some context there. [13:16] I want to say, you know, you were really strategic [13:18] about the use of your time, [13:20] making sure you had enough time at the conference [13:22] to meet people, but you were also asking yourself, [13:24] who do I know in this area, who I could connect with [13:27] and further my relationship with? [13:29] Exactly. [13:30] And we're all not just attorneys, [13:33] but we're all short on time. [13:34] Yeah, life is busy. [13:36] Life is busy. [13:37] It's a fact of life. [13:38] Life is busy. [13:39] We're supposed to be enjoying life as well. [13:42] OK, that is a high quality, a high value on, you know, [13:48] a grandmother I'm involved in. [13:51] I like to be active. [13:52] I like to garden. [13:53] I like to play pickleball. [13:54] I like to do all kinds of things, right? [13:57] So, you know, I look at time, energy, and money. [14:02] And that, me, is a dance. [14:04] Where do I put my time and energy that has great results? [14:09] And sometimes that is in my garden, [14:12] because that might clear my head and increase the activity [14:16] for strategy for my own business. [14:19] Where, what clients do I touch? [14:21] What relationships am I touching? [14:24] I also have a strong policy of if somebody [14:29] doesn't feel like my cup of tea. [14:32] It's OK. [14:34] Yes, I don't do something because it will build my business, [14:38] or I'll make money, or anything like that, [14:41] with that person that I just don't align with. [14:43] I think value alignment is really important. [14:46] I want to build relationships. [14:48] I build with relationships with people [14:49] that I really do want to sit down [14:51] and have a cup of coffee with. [14:52] I really want to enjoy a meal with. [14:54] It's not a hardship, it's a joy. [14:56] Yeah, I so agree with what you're saying [14:58] that it's essential when we're trying to be successful [15:03] on every level, that we align ourselves with things [15:06] that feel right. [15:07] And oftentimes, I think people interact [15:09] with others out of obligation, [15:11] or because they think, I don't really like this person, [15:13] but I think I could benefit financially from them [15:16] at some point. [15:16] And I think what you've seen in your life [15:19] is probably similar to what I see, [15:20] that when you go against what your intuition is saying, [15:24] it doesn't usually lead to a good place. [15:26] And I think, when we look at lasting legacy, [15:29] which is really important to me, [15:31] like I mentioned, I was speaking on succession planning, [15:33] I do a lot of strategic planning [15:35] and a lot of succession planning in the work I do, [15:37] with yes. [15:38] And we think about lasting legacy. [15:40] And I don't think succession is about retirement. [15:44] I think it's about legacy. [15:46] And if I can build a company that has lasting legacy, [15:51] it has that lasting legacy by the relationships [15:54] I've built that have brought a business, [15:57] the relationships I've built internally [15:59] within the organization, the relationships [16:03] and the mentorship that I've done [16:05] in developing people up, all of those relationships [16:09] are really valuable and important. [16:12] Agreed. [16:13] And I know from the current research [16:15] that leadership has changed dramatically [16:18] because people are looking for relationships at work now. [16:21] They're not getting that so much out in the community [16:23] because we don't have community centers. [16:25] Like what you see when people would go to church a lot more [16:28] and socialize with their neighbors [16:30] and maybe go to the Y with other people in the neighborhood. [16:32] So people don't get that. [16:34] People are more isolated than ever. [16:35] So at work, they want to know that they're cared about. [16:38] They want to work with people who value them [16:40] and want to have a relationship with them. [16:43] And I think law firms are starting to catch on to that too. [16:49] Another question I have

because I hear this a lot, [16:51] I'm talking to attorneys in my own consulting work [16:54] and coaching work and they understand what you and I [16:56] are now saying about relationships, [16:57] especially if you want to build a legacy, if you're really ambitious. [17:01] And those kind of sheepishly say to me, [17:03] well, I used to have relationships. [17:06] I just have ignored my relationships for so long. [17:08] I don't even, I feel kind of embarrassed to, [17:11] and what if people get angry if I call them [17:13] and say after five years, I'm finally returning that phone call [17:16] or you know, haven't seen each other all this time [17:18] and let's get together. [17:21] What if they think I'm not genuine? [17:23] So what advice do you have for attorneys? [17:25] You say, yeah, I need to get back on track with this, [17:27] but I don't know what kind of response [17:30] I'm going to get from people. [17:31] I am the most transparent. [17:33] You know, I know there's a big word authenticity [17:35] that people love. [17:37] I think it's a little overused at this point [17:40] ever because I hope he authentic. [17:42] I'll just say, I'm transparent. [17:45] I am, I am who I am who I am. [17:48] When I mess up, I say I messed up. [17:51] When I fall in off track on a relationship, [17:54] I jump back in and say, I'm so sorry, life got busy. [17:58] I really miss our connecting. [18:00] Do you have a few minutes to catch up? [18:03] I just lay it out there. [18:04] You know, people say, I look like the bigger idiot. [18:06] I hate to say it that way, [18:07] but I look like the bigger idiot. [18:10] When he said, well, let me explain, you know, [18:14] this happened and this happened and this happened [18:16] and it's like, hold on, just nobody cares. [18:19] What I really care about is wow, you were thinking of me. [18:22] And when I get those real notes back, [18:24] I was like, hey, it's been a while. [18:26] Yes. [18:27] I was thinking about you. [18:29] I'm like, yeah. [18:29] It was so sweet, that's so nice. [18:31] I feel wonderful. [18:33] Uh-huh. [18:34] Yeah. [18:35] And then I can move forward. [18:37] One thing that really struck me when we met [18:40] and this I think has elevated the relationship [18:43] that we have faster than it might have been, [18:46] uh, and many have advanced otherwise, [18:48] was you were very honest with me from the beginning. [18:50] You said to me, you know, I feel that we have a connection [18:52] and I want to pursue this connection with you. [18:55] Um, and we've done that. [18:56] Uh, so I like that you are genuine [18:59] and you try to be authentic [19:01] and you talk a lot about transactional communication [19:04] as opposed to genuine communication. [19:06] And how do attorneys know the difference? [19:09] How do they know when someone is just trying to make a connection [19:12] because they want something or someone is trying to connect [19:15] because they really want a meaningful connection with them [19:18] that could lead to a variety of opportunities. [19:20] But mostly they like the person. [19:22] You know, I did the like check first. [19:25] I did a like check first. [19:27] And in that like check, I have, and I, this is, [19:31] this is my sound a little bit non-legal [19:34] and I'm okay with that. [19:35] Uh-huh. [19:36] There's something called a gut check. [19:38] Check in with your gut. [19:40] When you think somebody is playing you, [19:43] if we check in with our gut, we know we're being played. [19:48] And I'm going to just put it that way. [19:50] Like the person who like wants something from you [19:53] and they just want access to the people you know, [19:56] they want access to something. [19:58] Mm-hmm. [19:59] When I have that feeling, it's like, [20:01] okay, so just, I, again, I'm transparent. [20:05] So I'll just look at that person. [20:06] It's like, so what drove you to get on the call today? [20:09] Uh-huh. [20:10] That's a good question. [20:11] Yeah. [20:12] And then I sit there in silence. [20:14] And I let them say, well, I was hoping. [20:16] I was like, okay, so let's talk about it. [20:18] And it might ethically work for me or it might not ethically work for me. [20:22] But I don't go, I don't play games. [20:25] I don't go down this long list of, do you think is it right? [20:29] Is it wrong? [20:30] I do that gut check. [20:32] If something does not feel right, I check in with my gut. [20:34] And then I just take that breath and I say, [20:37] so what drove you wouldn't want to get on the call today? [20:40] And I think it's an early valid question. [20:42] Sometimes people say, well, I was, and I did this call yesterday. [20:46] Somebody said, you know, I was really intrigued you. [20:49] You were speaking and you shared your book and I'm writing [20:52] and I wanted to see like, how did you get that done? [20:55] I'm like, great, let's talk about it. [20:57] And then I can, you know, it's not a business development, [21:00] but we also never know because we develop a good relationship. [21:04] But I would say I was asked the question [21:06] and they were transparent back and I was cool with that. [21:09] And so what you're talking about is really taking the space [21:12] to get in touch with your own feelings [21:15] when you're with somebody. [21:17] And of course, that takes time. [21:19] You know, I see so many attorneys [21:21] that are just rushing through their day [21:22] and thinking, oh, I'm checking off so many things [21:25] and it could be a meeting like you did just described [21:27] just trying to get through a meeting [21:29] and they don't really process anything. [21:32] They're not really thinking in terms of, [21:34] well, how do I really feel about this? [21:36] And what do I really want to get out of a meeting [21:38] or what do I really want to ask someone? [21:40] So how can we get attorneys to slow down a little bit? [21:44] This is a huge question, but

enough to really do those gut checks. [21:49] I have something that I usually just say, [21:52] take a deep breath in. [21:54] Mm-hmm. [21:56] And I think there's a power in breath. [21:59] I think there's the large power in it. [22:00] So I'll talk about it from like two perspective. [22:03] Yes. [22:04] When we need to slow down and actually listen, [22:06] and we often do, because our minds are going a mile [22:09] and then it, so we're not actually listening. [22:14] Take a deep breath in, let it out, [22:18] and then look somebody in the eye and listen [22:20] and see what's going on between meetings, [22:24] between working on this legal brief [22:27] and going to the next meeting [22:28] or the next action I need to take. [22:31] I take a deep breath, I take one to three deep breaths. [22:34] It takes just 60 seconds. [22:37] You're not losing time people. [22:38] Attorneys you're right. [22:40] You're actually gaining focus? [22:43] Yes. [22:44] And when you do this, and it's again, [22:47] that's 60 seconds, you will be more productive. [22:50] So that's one of the keys, that's one of the tools I use, [22:54] one of the tools I talk to a lot of people about. [22:58] You want clarity and a decision. [23:00] Take a couple of deep breaths, ground yourself, [23:03] recenter, and then we'll see [23:07] where is the decision I'm making [23:09] and why is it the decision I'm making? [23:11] Where does it lead us? [23:13] What makes sense? [23:15] Right, so taking that time out for connecting with others [23:19] and for connecting with yourself, that gets you [23:22] where you want to go so much more quickly, ultimately, [23:25] because you're not making as many mistakes [23:28] with your decision-making and with communication. [23:31] I talk all the time about how we have so many ways [23:34] to communicate with technology, but there's more miscommunication [23:37] than ever before. [23:38] More people feeling they're not getting their message across, [23:41] they're not being understood, they're not being respected. [23:43] And it's all because we're not taking these spaces [23:45] that you're talking about and we're not really asking [23:49] how do I feel about this or we're not really asking [23:52] how can I get to know this other person better [23:54] and how can I make sure we're communicating effectively [23:57] without distraction. [23:59] And when you end to get to a conversation [24:02] if you're doing it by Zoom or in person, [24:04] give yourself the advantage and the grace of just at the end [24:09] and saying, what was helpful today when we met for you? [24:14] And then what do we want to do next? [24:16] Do we want to meet for another 20? [24:18] Do we want to get together on Zoom [24:20] or teams for a few minutes, maybe in the next quarter [24:24] and set things up right then and there. [24:26] So stop trying to chase down this network building [24:31] and give yourself it, that's the grace part. [24:33] Give yourself the easing grace and the calendaring [24:36] and the CRMs and everything else [24:39] to just get it done right then it is. [24:42] So it seems like a good message to leave people with [24:45] is just take a first step. [24:47] If people are hearing this and saying, [24:49] I want to get started on this. [24:50] So what would that first step be? [24:51] What's one step people can take IB to get them [24:54] into connecting with themselves, [24:57] connecting with other people to build a legacy [25:00] that is really textured and fulfilling, [25:03] that they can leave behind eventually. [25:05] I would say the first step is, [25:06] give yourself that moment, take it with deep breath [25:10] and then write down five people you'd like to connect with. [25:16] Okay, that is just five. [25:18] That's a great idea. [25:18] That's five, not 25, not 105, five people. [25:23] Yes. [25:24] And this week you have five days of the week. [25:27] So one a day, an action one a day. [25:29] You start with the baby steps [25:31] and you build the consistency for that. [25:34] That's where you're going to gain your traction. [25:37] I really like that and I always talk about small steps. [25:40] We'll get you further than big huge leaps. [25:42] So thank you so much IB for joining me [25:45] for this episode of Lawyer Like an Athlete Podcast. [25:48] And if you'd like to learn more about my work everyone [25:52] in my book, Lawyer Like an Athlete, [25:53] just visit my website, Amywoodpsyd.com. [25:58] If you want to buy the book, [25:59] you can go to the ABA bookstore, [26:03] which you can access through ABA.org. [26:05] And to learn more about IB Slater, [26:07] her coaching, speaking, and her books, [26:10] visit her website, SlaterSuccess.com. [26:14] And if you enjoy this conversation, please subscribe, [26:17] share the episode and leave a review. [26:19] And we'll see you next time on Lawyer Like an Athlete Podcast. [26:23] Thanks everyone. [26:24] Thanks for watching. [26:26] Be sure to hit that like and subscribe button [26:29] and leave us a review in the comments.