النص 🔗
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.050 --> 00:00:04.650
Sometimes you have a duty to hide your true intentions
2
00:00:05.330 --> 00:00:09.199
in front of the outside world because people can only
3
00:00:09.259 --> 00:00:12.560
judge your actions, but the intentions of your heart will
4
00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:13.960
be judged only by God.
5
00:00:14.740 --> 00:00:16.519
When Jesus is brought up on the mountain and he's
6
00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:19.719
given those temptations, that's essentially what the Vatican said. Yeah,
7
00:00:19.739 --> 00:00:22.539
we will rule with you. And then eventually it's like, Jesus,
8
00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:24.780
you're kind of in the way of our project.
9
00:00:25.070 --> 00:00:28.170
Vatican is a peace representative. Sounds way better as a, sorry,
10
00:00:28.230 --> 00:00:32.479
CIA director is a peace representative. Just even from PR perspective.
11
00:00:32.740 --> 00:00:35.250
And then you connect it and then you use it.
12
00:00:35.729 --> 00:00:36.810
Congratulations.
13
00:01:07.969 --> 00:01:09.670
Okay, welcome back.
14
00:01:10.909 --> 00:01:13.469
I don't honestly remember what's the number of the episode
15
00:01:13.489 --> 00:01:16.629
we are recording, but I remember the topic. So in
16
00:01:16.670 --> 00:01:19.519
the last part, we talked a lot about technocrats and
17
00:01:20.030 --> 00:01:21.439
actually I thought it would be one of the most
18
00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:25.760
boring episodes. And despite not even mentioning Peter Thiel and Antichrist,
19
00:01:25.780 --> 00:01:29.799
we actually ended up doing pretty fascinating segues. So highly
20
00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:32.700
recommend you go back and check it if you're just
21
00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:37.000
joining for this episode. However, today in the center of
22
00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:41.269
our attention, is, as I said before, simultaneously old and
23
00:01:41.329 --> 00:01:44.909
new story. It is the story of the Vatican as
24
00:01:45.010 --> 00:01:49.260
a political player in this big game of power, its spirit,
25
00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:52.819
and in particular on American turf and global turf and
26
00:01:52.859 --> 00:01:54.739
like what kind of vision of the future and it
27
00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:59.060
tells how it relates to other big, let's say, tribes
28
00:01:59.189 --> 00:02:03.299
we've been talking about, what spirit it animates. And truth
29
00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:05.519
be told, this one I really think will be the
30
00:02:05.659 --> 00:02:08.500
episode I talk the least because I have maybe the
31
00:02:08.539 --> 00:02:12.819
best expert in the language universe who spends like, I
32
00:02:12.860 --> 00:02:17.659
don't know, several thousand hours publicly talking about this issue.
33
00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:21.189
So all hands to you, Jay. So what is Vatican,
34
00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.650
why it's politically relevant, and how it all came to be?
35
00:02:25.789 --> 00:02:28.120
I think the best place to start with, the Vatican
36
00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:32.800
is actually in the first thousand years in terms of forgeries.
37
00:02:33.419 --> 00:02:34.300
Well before America.
38
00:02:34.460 --> 00:02:38.360
Well before America. Because the problems with the Vatican are
39
00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:45.289
not really ultimately Rome or something like this. We share,
40
00:02:45.310 --> 00:02:49.110
of course, as Orthodox, many, many centuries of Orthodox popes.
41
00:02:49.930 --> 00:02:52.729
We think that they were on the right track and
42
00:02:52.750 --> 00:02:55.500
they were hallowed for their orthodoxy for many, many centuries.
43
00:02:55.990 --> 00:02:59.629
doubly apostolic peter and paul even when you go to
44
00:02:59.669 --> 00:03:03.310
rome still to this day they still honor peter and
45
00:03:03.349 --> 00:03:05.310
paul and most of the basilicas up front and that
46
00:03:05.349 --> 00:03:08.629
you see them equal which is ironic because that equality
47
00:03:08.889 --> 00:03:12.310
ends up being lost over time and the reason i
48
00:03:12.349 --> 00:03:15.710
point to the forgeries is that we see the original
49
00:03:15.750 --> 00:03:18.210
impetus when these forgeries begin to appear in the 600s
50
00:03:18.250 --> 00:03:22.009
and the 700s they don't really gain prominence for another
51
00:03:22.069 --> 00:03:28.719
couple centuries but they're initially about Worldly political power. Forgeries
52
00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:31.780
that are backing up, most famously, the donation of Constantine.
53
00:03:32.340 --> 00:03:37.550
Later on, we have Isidorean forgeries, Samocian forgeries. And then
54
00:03:37.569 --> 00:03:39.409
when we get to the 11th century, we have the
55
00:03:39.449 --> 00:03:43.909
Gregorian reforms, where essentially the papacy, now admitted by the Vatican,
56
00:03:43.939 --> 00:03:45.879
by the way, most of their theologians in the 20th
57
00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:49.280
century have admitted that there's a revolution in the church
58
00:03:49.300 --> 00:03:53.740
in the 11th century. And you have essentially Teutonic-Germanic kings
59
00:03:55.569 --> 00:04:01.490
Frankish kings exerting tremendous amounts of influence, essentially installing the
60
00:04:01.509 --> 00:04:04.400
bishops of Rome for almost a century. And so it
61
00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:10.020
becomes kind of a pet political project for certain worldly,
62
00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:15.990
greedy kings and rulers to take this religious office and
63
00:04:16.050 --> 00:04:20.170
turn it into a tool for expanding their own.
64
00:04:21.889 --> 00:04:22.310
Desires.
65
00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:25.680
And this, I would say, ultimately what ends up happening
66
00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:28.360
is for many centuries, the Bishop of Rome ends up
67
00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:30.939
kind of being this sort of like pimped out office
68
00:04:31.939 --> 00:04:37.769
that you want to control because it's not just a
69
00:04:37.819 --> 00:04:41.649
spiritual power, but by the 11th, 12th, and
Load full transcript
13th centuries,
70
00:04:42.709 --> 00:04:48.649
it's a worldly power also that grows to eventually say, basically,
71
00:04:49.389 --> 00:04:53.689
if you don't acknowledge the temporal power, as well as
72
00:04:53.730 --> 00:04:56.490
the spiritual power and headship of the entire church, you
73
00:04:56.550 --> 00:05:01.310
are damned. If you do not fight for the Pope,
74
00:05:01.589 --> 00:05:04.230
if he tells you to, with your armies as a king,
75
00:05:04.529 --> 00:05:08.310
you are damned. And so by between the 11th century
76
00:05:08.790 --> 00:05:13.990
to the 13, I think 1380s with Pope Boniface's Unum Sanctum,
77
00:05:14.790 --> 00:05:18.430
you have this evolution of a doctrine that salvation is
78
00:05:18.490 --> 00:05:23.319
now contingent upon not just accepting the universal spiritual headship
79
00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:27.670
of the papacy, but also his geopolitical temporal power as
80
00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:31.389
necessary for salvation. So this is a huge change. There's
81
00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:33.550
nothing like that in the first thousand years. Even the
82
00:05:34.050 --> 00:05:39.040
donation of Constantine doesn't make salvation dependent upon also recognizing
83
00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:43.379
that the Pope is the quesatatorac, to use the Dune terminology.
84
00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:47.459
So this is clearly an evolution of doctrine. And ironically,
85
00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:50.529
the Vatican to this day has kind of conceded this
86
00:05:50.730 --> 00:05:54.540
with most of their historians and theologians. But what's funny
87
00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:56.500
is that the, you know, if you go back to
88
00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:00.339
the time of Vatican I, when the most famous papal
89
00:06:00.379 --> 00:06:04.040
historian and theologian of that time, Ignaz von Dollinger, Dollinger
90
00:06:04.060 --> 00:06:06.370
wrote a book that I'm reading right now called The
91
00:06:06.389 --> 00:06:09.670
Pope and the Council. And it's discussing his own reservations
92
00:06:09.709 --> 00:06:12.170
about why he had such a hard time accepting Vatican I,
93
00:06:12.889 --> 00:06:15.569
which is the council which stated papal infallibility and the
94
00:06:15.649 --> 00:06:20.139
universal headship and authority of the Roman pontiff. for their dogma,
95
00:06:20.170 --> 00:06:23.370
for their church. And so he lists all of these reasons,
96
00:06:23.490 --> 00:06:27.930
and he says one of the strongest problems with this
97
00:06:27.970 --> 00:06:34.550
position is that Pope Gregory VII in the 11th century
98
00:06:34.610 --> 00:06:38.550
called a council in Rome, I think in 1080, and
99
00:06:38.569 --> 00:06:42.569
he says, he uses Matthew 16 about the keys and
100
00:06:42.610 --> 00:06:45.540
binding and loosing, not just about the bishop of Rome,
101
00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:50.779
but about worldly power. And if the bishop of Rome
102
00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:54.899
decides he needs your army or your kingdom, you give
103
00:06:54.939 --> 00:06:57.870
it to him or you're damned. And he says this
104
00:06:57.930 --> 00:07:00.750
to me is just unheard of in the first thousand
105
00:07:00.769 --> 00:07:03.430
years of the church. In fact, you have canons at
106
00:07:03.470 --> 00:07:07.569
Chalcedon and other ecumenical, Trollo, other what are considered ecumenical
107
00:07:07.610 --> 00:07:11.850
for Orthodox especially. The idea that you cannot be in
108
00:07:11.910 --> 00:07:15.209
a civil office if you're a religious leader. So a
109
00:07:15.230 --> 00:07:17.730
bishop can't be a king. He can't be a duke.
110
00:07:18.889 --> 00:07:22.470
Not supposed to. That has happened sometimes. But ironically, the
111
00:07:22.509 --> 00:07:26.709
entire papacy from the 11th to 14th, all the weapons
112
00:07:26.769 --> 00:07:29.370
of Vatican I, because they still had the temporal supremacy
113
00:07:29.410 --> 00:07:32.209
doctrine as necessary, even at the time of Vatican I,
114
00:07:32.449 --> 00:07:34.680
it's mentioned in the syllabus of errors of Pius IX,
115
00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:40.600
which is part of Vatican I. It's essentially a worldly,
116
00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:45.420
a conflating of the two heads of the eagle. You
117
00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:48.269
have the Byzantine eagle, one body of the people, But
118
00:07:48.290 --> 00:07:51.120
there's a temporal sphere and there's a spiritual sphere, two heads.
119
00:07:51.810 --> 00:07:52.980
Eternity and history.
120
00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:55.740
It's one body of the people. But this is essentially
121
00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:04.079
to conflate the two into a, it's a making of
122
00:08:04.139 --> 00:08:07.779
the church a state. And when you do this, you
123
00:08:07.819 --> 00:08:12.120
begin to erode the order that I believe was already
124
00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:15.829
normative and established and sort of divine. Essentially, it's a
125
00:08:15.889 --> 00:08:17.689
Protestantizing before the Protestants.
126
00:08:17.709 --> 00:08:17.850
St.
127
00:08:17.889 --> 00:08:22.910
Justin Popovich says the papacy is the first Protestant. And
128
00:08:22.949 --> 00:08:26.709
I think that's accurate because the fracturing that many Roman Catholics,
129
00:08:27.449 --> 00:08:30.480
and they're very angry about the Reformation, you couldn't have
130
00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:33.320
had that had you not had the Reformation in the
131
00:08:33.620 --> 00:08:36.980
11th century of the papacy. So all of that's necessary
132
00:08:37.019 --> 00:08:43.759
to understand why. And of course it's possible, and many bishoprics, patriarchates,
133
00:08:44.309 --> 00:08:48.129
have been co-opted by politics, have been, you know, you've.
134
00:08:48.009 --> 00:08:51.210
Had- Just let's say to Byzantium, the story of Byzantium,
135
00:08:51.230 --> 00:08:56.269
the amount of really ugly stuff happening between an emperor
136
00:08:56.309 --> 00:08:58.210
and a patriarch is astonishing.
137
00:08:58.309 --> 00:08:59.909
So I
want to be clear that we're not saying
138
00:08:59.950 --> 00:09:03.139
that in the Orthodox world and in the history of
139
00:09:03.149 --> 00:09:06.360
the Orthodox Church that we're free from that. We're not
140
00:09:06.379 --> 00:09:09.659
saying that at all. We're saying that similar problems. And
141
00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:16.259
the difference is that Rome- dogmatizes this problem as orthodox
142
00:09:16.419 --> 00:09:19.850
and good it is now good that the papacy and
143
00:09:19.870 --> 00:09:21.809
of course the argument is well we want to be
144
00:09:21.850 --> 00:09:25.570
above the temporal ruler so the temporal ruler can't interfere
145
00:09:25.590 --> 00:09:28.429
with the church but that doesn't stop the temporal ruler
146
00:09:28.450 --> 00:09:29.710
from interfering with the church as we see in the
147
00:09:29.950 --> 00:09:33.450
11th century because the german kings install for 70 years
148
00:09:34.149 --> 00:09:38.179
german kings or they're It's a sort of nepotism to
149
00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:39.159
control the opposite papacy.
150
00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:41.080
And then there was the famous Avignon.
151
00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:44.340
We have the papacy moving to France for 70 years.
152
00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:46.480
We have the Great Western Schism where we get three
153
00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:50.610
rival popes claiming to be the true pope. And then
154
00:09:50.659 --> 00:09:53.850
what ends up solving this is the Council of Constance,
155
00:09:53.990 --> 00:09:57.049
which puts out a document called Hac Sancta, which is
156
00:09:57.100 --> 00:10:01.519
admitted by today's papal canonists and lawyers to be the
157
00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:03.519
actual product of the council. It's not a forgery. And
158
00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:06.419
the council says the council has determined it will be
159
00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.799
the pope. Well, that's contrary to Vatican I because Vatican
160
00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:12.059
I says there is no council above the pope. No
161
00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:14.490
council will determine or tell the popes anything. The pope
162
00:10:14.539 --> 00:10:18.039
tells the council what to do. So it's a problem
163
00:10:18.139 --> 00:10:20.970
for the papacy in terms of Vatican I with Hox Sancta.
164
00:10:20.990 --> 00:10:23.809
And by the way, Dollinger admits all these things. And
165
00:10:23.830 --> 00:10:25.769
at the end of the day, when Dollinger was told,
166
00:10:26.269 --> 00:10:29.210
you know, what are you going to do? He says, well,
167
00:10:29.690 --> 00:10:32.009
I can't support Vatican I. And they said, well, then
168
00:10:32.029 --> 00:10:35.059
we'll actually communicate you. So he was forced into supporting
169
00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:38.879
Vatican I. So I think this is a great example
170
00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:42.539
of like, when we say what's the problem with the papacy,
171
00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:46.279
it's not, uh, one particular Pope, one particular point in time,
172
00:10:46.340 --> 00:10:51.269
it's many centuries of sort of innovation stacked upon, stacked upon,
173
00:10:51.289 --> 00:10:57.029
stacked upon many, many forgeries, uh, many, many instances of nepotism,
174
00:10:57.169 --> 00:10:59.090
you know, by the time of the Renaissance papacy is
175
00:10:59.110 --> 00:11:01.870
probably the worst. You get Alexander the sixth, who's essentially,
176
00:11:03.070 --> 00:11:05.250
he has a whore. He has essentially an entire whorehouse
177
00:11:05.269 --> 00:11:07.649
that he runs next to the Vatican. Uh, so, uh,
178
00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:11.179
And a standing army, et cetera.
179
00:11:11.740 --> 00:11:15.559
I just wanted to say it's important, specifically because we're
180
00:11:15.580 --> 00:11:20.590
talking about this kind of big power play. Individually speaking,
181
00:11:20.610 --> 00:11:25.409
the emphasis is definitely not on the individual's fault. Even
182
00:11:26.850 --> 00:11:30.970
from our perspective, the most perfect people would still end
183
00:11:31.029 --> 00:11:36.830
up doing mistakes following the principles which laid in the
184
00:11:36.870 --> 00:11:40.990
foundation of this let's say church because before we talked
185
00:11:41.049 --> 00:11:46.129
about guys with pretty radical esoteric stuff clearly you don't
186
00:11:46.169 --> 00:11:48.820
expect when we talk about Vatican on the same field
187
00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:51.700
and I would say that yes from the beginning it's
188
00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:55.340
not exactly the same field Vatican comes from a different
189
00:11:55.379 --> 00:12:01.759
source it comes from this unique different interpretation from orthodoxy
190
00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:06.240
of this binding and loosing principle. It's interpreting binding and
191
00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:12.830
loosing essentially, not just, obviously, it's still on a daily
192
00:12:12.870 --> 00:12:15.830
practice and regular Catholic life, it's still kind of the
193
00:12:15.870 --> 00:12:18.950
same spiritual matter, but it also adds to it, if
194
00:12:18.990 --> 00:12:22.669
you want to call it geopolitical binding and loosing. It
195
00:12:22.990 --> 00:12:26.980
basically brings it to an idea that essentially in the
196
00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:31.330
vision of, ideal vision of the future would be all
197
00:12:31.370 --> 00:12:36.210
the people united under the banner of the Pope, spiritual
198
00:12:36.269 --> 00:12:39.710
banner of the Pope, and all of the earth's sovereigns
199
00:12:40.169 --> 00:12:44.480
would be accountable to him one way or the other.
200
00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.899
The way might differ. Again, it follows from this interpretation
201
00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:49.879
that that's what binding and loosing mean, and it kind
202
00:12:49.940 --> 00:12:52.299
of makes sense. You could even say that, again, if
203
00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:55.340
I'm providing a charitable reading, which I think is important,
204
00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.250
look in a history. History is pretty messy. Petty squabbles,
205
00:12:59.929 --> 00:13:04.070
this wild beast's tribe, even like these demonic forces running around,
206
00:13:04.450 --> 00:13:07.750
somebody needs to take responsibility, somebody needs to become the
207
00:13:07.830 --> 00:13:11.750
true point of universal reference. Right. And that's, I would say,
208
00:13:11.809 --> 00:13:17.269
something internal people appeal stands on, and it is actually
209
00:13:17.309 --> 00:13:21.409
very strong. You can definitely see, even if we talk
210
00:13:21.450 --> 00:13:22.620
about different.
211
00:13:23.980 --> 00:13:27.559
Religious denominations, and yes, unfortunately, many Orthodox churches have this
212
00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:33.220
weird respect towards this Roman principles. And we won't lie, historically,
213
00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:36.649
multiple times Orthodox patriarchs kind of wanted to be the
214
00:13:36.690 --> 00:13:41.429
pope of themselves. There is absolutely understandable huge temptation. Just
215
00:13:41.490 --> 00:13:45.490
historically speaking, the Rome as a city, the seat of
216
00:13:45.529 --> 00:13:49.340
Rome started to do it really early, build it up
217
00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:53.320
a lot of experience, a lot of strength, a lot
218
00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:58.980
of capacities and still pretty loyal to this i would
219
00:13:59.019 --> 00:14:02.940
say vision which becomes very flexible we will go into
220
00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.570
a bit into later the consequences which follow from this
221
00:14:05.629 --> 00:14:08.649
idea but please just correct me if i'm wrong again
222
00:14:08.690 --> 00:14:11.009
i trust your expertise like did i sum it up
223
00:14:11.070 --> 00:14:13.549
more or less correctly so the idea so if you
224
00:14:13.570 --> 00:14:15.820
were to reframe it as a positive view so because
225
00:14:15.860 --> 00:14:17.990
we're trying to understand what is this kind of driving
226
00:14:18.070 --> 00:14:21.289
force inside, which is because people don't follow bad things.
227
00:14:21.309 --> 00:14:22.769
They need to believe that things are good.
228
00:14:22.789 --> 00:14:25.850
So why would to steel man, the position, the argument
229
00:14:25.889 --> 00:14:29.750
would be, we have this long track record in history
230
00:14:30.049 --> 00:14:33.409
of Kings and emperors involving themselves in the church and
231
00:14:33.450 --> 00:14:36.509
trying to control it. So it's a legitimate problem. Just
232
00:14:36.549 --> 00:14:41.389
like with, uh, Curtis Yarvin and the cathedral would agree
233
00:14:41.429 --> 00:14:43.769
with many of his criticisms. We do live in this
234
00:14:43.809 --> 00:14:48.730
sort of falsely erected, you know, essentially religious world that,
235
00:14:48.779 --> 00:14:50.870
you know, has all these problems, but does he have
236
00:14:50.889 --> 00:14:54.250
the right solutions? Same with the papacy. The idea is that, yes,
237
00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:58.389
we've got essentially, you know, Rome falls around 400. There's
238
00:14:58.429 --> 00:15:01.429
no political power in the West. And so the papacy
239
00:15:01.570 --> 00:15:06.029
as a sort of cultural influence and cohesive unit steps
240
00:15:06.090 --> 00:15:08.620
in to fill that role. So you could, we could
241
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:11.500
still man it by saying that it's understandable that the
242
00:15:11.539 --> 00:15:16.519
papacy would sort of inadvertently begin to accrue political power,
243
00:15:17.490 --> 00:15:20.509
and you have the papal states, etc. When the empire
244
00:15:20.549 --> 00:15:23.480
has moved to Constantinople, the center of the empire is
245
00:15:23.509 --> 00:15:24.700
not in Rome anymore.
246
00:15:24.980 --> 00:15:26.029
It's in Constantinople.
247
00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:31.659
And so Rome fills a vacuum. And then because of
248
00:15:31.779 --> 00:15:36.139
its apostolic pedigree, being doubly apostolic, again, you get this
249
00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:39.500
sort of evolving idea throughout the councils and the disputes
250
00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.820
of those first thousand years that Well, maybe we are
251
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:47.399
also given temporal supremacy, and this can solve so many
252
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.399
of these problems. One of the reasons that Gregory was
253
00:15:50.460 --> 00:15:54.080
successful in the 11th century with his papal revolution is
254
00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:55.980
because of what's called the investiture controversy.
255
00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:56.580
And this is the.
256
00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.440
Idea that who's going to really be the authority in
257
00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:02.179
the church? Is it a Christian king or is it
258
00:16:02.299 --> 00:16:05.879
a patriarch or the pope? And ultimately, Rome decides that
259
00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:08.200
the solution is just simply to defer to the pope.
260
00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:08.419
Yeah.
261
00:16:08.850 --> 00:16:11.809
And there's an admitted revolution in that century, again, by
262
00:16:11.850 --> 00:16:15.210
all the modern Catholic historians and theologians, that the 11th
263
00:16:15.230 --> 00:16:19.129
century is an ecclesiological revolution to the extent that now
264
00:16:20.029 --> 00:16:22.700
all bishops in the world will be confirmed by the pope.
265
00:16:23.029 --> 00:16:23.980
Yes. All of them.
266
00:16:24.289 --> 00:16:27.059
And, of course, you can see why, if you're the pope,
267
00:16:27.139 --> 00:16:30.080
that would ensure that you've got men on your side, right?
268
00:16:30.100 --> 00:16:32.659
So there's not going to be any rebellious, you know.
269
00:16:33.710 --> 00:16:36.450
people that don't agree with the papacy. But this ends
270
00:16:36.549 --> 00:16:40.929
up schisming the church between four patriarchs and one patriarch, right,
271
00:16:40.970 --> 00:16:45.360
in Rome versus the others. And so we have essentially
272
00:16:45.620 --> 00:16:49.500
now a giant divide in Christendom, and both go in
273
00:16:49.539 --> 00:16:54.799
the trajectory that you might expect. Rome continues to evolve
274
00:16:54.940 --> 00:16:58.779
in the direction that it evolves. Thus, we've begun the
275
00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:03.139
principle of innovation and revolution. This is so crucial because
276
00:17:03.850 --> 00:17:06.650
I agree with, uh, you know, our saints that you
277
00:17:06.670 --> 00:17:10.369
really couldn't have these later reformations and revolutions had you
278
00:17:10.410 --> 00:17:12.950
not had the papal revolution first, it prepares the way.
279
00:17:13.009 --> 00:17:16.059
Another thing it does, for example, is create, it's sort
280
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.539
of a secularizing of the church is the key point.
281
00:17:18.980 --> 00:17:23.559
It creates for the first time ever monastic military orders.
282
00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:26.690
We've never seen this before. This is a huge criticism
283
00:17:26.730 --> 00:17:29.009
that Papa, uh, Papa Doc is in my indoors making
284
00:17:29.029 --> 00:17:33.420
their excellent book on the 1400s. Um, And so you
285
00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:33.980
can clearly.
286
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:36.519
But still manic it. It makes sense. So you need
287
00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:40.549
a military force, not to pettish squabbles of like kings
288
00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:45.690
fighting over who inherits what and fights for something actually important.
289
00:17:45.950 --> 00:17:48.910
And looking into, for example, modern system, you can easily
290
00:17:48.970 --> 00:17:52.309
see how this sounds in a messy world, very appealing.
291
00:17:52.589 --> 00:17:55.609
It does, but the problem is, yeah, so, you know,
292
00:17:55.670 --> 00:17:59.730
we already have kind of a providential canonical norm in
293
00:17:59.750 --> 00:18:02.809
the first thousand years of the relationship between church and state,
294
00:18:02.890 --> 00:18:05.349
you have the business in imperium, you have the patriarchates,
295
00:18:05.430 --> 00:18:09.390
et cetera. And then you get the idea that, well,
296
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:12.940
what if we set up a rival Western emperor? And
297
00:18:12.980 --> 00:18:16.039
so you get Charlemagne in 800, you get, uh, and,
298
00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:18.000
and to be fair to the Pope of that time, um,
299
00:18:19.339 --> 00:18:23.569
even when Charlemagne began in his Carolinian court, they began to, uh,
300
00:18:23.769 --> 00:18:27.809
enact certain teachings that were heterodox. For example, they didn't,
301
00:18:28.130 --> 00:18:30.250
they didn't believe in, and they didn't believe in the
302
00:18:30.269 --> 00:18:32.960
seventh ecumenical council. And to the credit of the Pope
303
00:18:32.980 --> 00:18:37.710
at that time, the Pope was pro-Seventh Council against the Carolinians.
304
00:18:37.789 --> 00:18:43.109
But you begin to see this era of devolution, right?
305
00:18:43.150 --> 00:18:43.569
And then St.
306
00:18:43.609 -->
00:18:46.470
Photius, for example, in his letters, he complains that the
307
00:18:46.529 --> 00:18:53.170
Frankish missionaries had sent filioquist Latinizers into areas of Bulgaria
308
00:18:53.190 --> 00:18:56.289
and Orthodox countries. So even in the 800s, this problem
309
00:18:56.329 --> 00:18:59.940
is beginning to arise between the two churches. But it
310
00:18:59.980 --> 00:19:02.589
doesn't come to full fruition until, again, many centuries later
311
00:19:02.730 --> 00:19:04.630
when you get this full divide. I think it's more
312
00:19:04.710 --> 00:19:08.769
accurate to say that orthodoxy continues the model of the
313
00:19:08.809 --> 00:19:10.910
first millennium. And then what you get in the West
314
00:19:10.990 --> 00:19:14.589
is more of a Franco-Papal model.
315
00:19:14.349 --> 00:19:15.390
Of what the church is.
316
00:19:16.109 --> 00:19:18.509
And I think that's exactly what happened.
317
00:19:18.690 --> 00:19:23.299
On secularism, important just as an image, why it's happening
318
00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:27.160
naturally within this context, and it's relevant nowadays. So as
319
00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:29.339
I mentioned, an idea of a garden, and a garden
320
00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:32.220
needs a gardener. And there is nothing better exactly in it.
321
00:19:32.420 --> 00:19:34.910
We are all like from Christian perspective are called to
322
00:19:34.950 --> 00:19:39.589
be a gardener, etc. Eden was a gardener. However, what's
323
00:19:39.990 --> 00:19:44.049
this imperative to secularizing? It happens exactly against the background
324
00:19:44.089 --> 00:19:49.079
of this eschatological anxiety. Well, there is this like seculum space, basically.
325
00:19:49.099 --> 00:19:51.220
It's a space before first and second coming of Christ,
326
00:19:51.259 --> 00:19:53.099
and we need to kind of do something to make
327
00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:56.359
this seculum place as sorry, nice, and possible. And it's
328
00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:00.900
all messy around. Everybody's illiterate. We need to change this.
329
00:20:00.940 --> 00:20:03.240
We need to improve morals here. We need, like, the
330
00:20:03.259 --> 00:20:07.569
idea of improving morals again as a conscious social effort
331
00:20:07.609 --> 00:20:13.079
becomes necessary Actually, the very language of later reforms and revolutions,
332
00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:16.519
many ways starting to appear back then, like in the
333
00:20:16.539 --> 00:20:20.859
Gregorian Revolution. Often it's considered exactly as a sacred duty.
334
00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:23.960
So if I want to understand the spirit behind Vatican,
335
00:20:23.980 --> 00:20:28.089
so why it makes really strong player so legitimately, it has,
336
00:20:29.690 --> 00:20:33.910
especially openly, the best possible foundation, the truth of Jesus Christ,
337
00:20:34.450 --> 00:20:37.269
the rock of Peter, which supposedly stand on, It's a
338
00:20:37.289 --> 00:20:41.450
huge moral imperative to perform your duty as a shepherd
339
00:20:42.069 --> 00:20:46.650
over the chaotic, over the chaos of a secular life.
340
00:20:47.150 --> 00:20:50.660
Without going into all of this church history and without
341
00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:55.359
understanding all of these levels why it is wrong, if
342
00:20:55.380 --> 00:20:57.559
you just stop here, it is very appealing. I can
343
00:20:57.579 --> 00:20:59.839
definitely give it to this. It's quite easy to defend
344
00:20:59.859 --> 00:21:03.109
this position. That's why it stands so long despite, let's say,
345
00:21:03.230 --> 00:21:05.210
other tribe opening up and it seems like, oh, they
346
00:21:05.250 --> 00:21:08.160
will become irrelevant. And you still see that papacy keeps
347
00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:12.180
being very relevant in almost anywhere and anything globally from
348
00:21:12.220 --> 00:21:16.200
this millennia ago to 2026 right now. Context of war
349
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:20.019
in Ukraine, who is now in this post-secular Europe, ended
350
00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:23.700
up being the representative of the European Brussels globalist position,
351
00:21:23.980 --> 00:21:28.839
the papal representatives, the Cardinal Gallagher, the Giuseppe, I think,
352
00:21:28.859 --> 00:21:31.660
the other guy who is coming again. But for Vatican
353
00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:35.619
is not even, I would say, they would be offended
354
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:37.700
if it says that it's just the power grab move
355
00:21:37.819 --> 00:21:40.190
or they want the power. No, it's the duty of
356
00:21:40.210 --> 00:21:41.750
a shepherd, something like this.
357
00:21:43.009 --> 00:21:48.390
But I think what's misunderstood is spheres of authority.
358
00:21:48.549 --> 00:21:48.690
Yeah.
359
00:21:49.190 --> 00:21:52.970
And this is what had already been outlined canonically in,
360
00:21:53.230 --> 00:21:54.720
and I'm reading a book right now on the history
361
00:21:54.859 --> 00:21:57.940
of the canons of the church. And there's pretty clearly
362
00:21:57.980 --> 00:22:02.450
a delineation, you know, between what's proper for members of
363
00:22:02.470 --> 00:22:07.160
the clergy versus what's proper for members of the state.
364
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.819
And they do have overlap. And certainly spiritually speaking, we
365
00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:15.329
think that the spiritual authority is above the temporal, but
366
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.890
we don't conclude from that, that everything that the temporal
367
00:22:18.930 --> 00:22:22.089
has is therefore what the spiritual has. And that's the
368
00:22:22.150 --> 00:22:25.799
first false move of the Gregorian era is that, well,
369
00:22:26.410 --> 00:22:29.079
Logically speaking, you can see this in Dictatus Pape. The
370
00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:31.890
argumentation is, well, if I have the authority spiritually and
371
00:22:31.910 --> 00:22:35.880
the spiritual above the temporal, then I also logically also
372
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.240
have
the sword above all the kings, the temporal sword.
373
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:39.680
Right.
374
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:44.539
So the idea that the church deals with the spiritual,
375
00:22:45.099 --> 00:22:48.019
the soul of man, the state deals with the body,
376
00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:50.720
the physical side of man, that's fine. And that was
377
00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:55.160
a common first millennium idea. The problem becomes when the
378
00:22:55.220 --> 00:22:58.640
spiritual then says, I am above all of the other
379
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:02.640
spiritual brethren, and I also have the temporal sword above
380
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:06.250
all of the kings. So there is no easy solution
381
00:23:06.369 --> 00:23:09.910
to a real problem. But again, much like with technocrats,
382
00:23:10.450 --> 00:23:12.470
they might see real problems, but that doesn't mean that
383
00:23:12.490 --> 00:23:14.269
they have the right solution. And it's the same way
384
00:23:14.329 --> 00:23:17.829
as like, do we really want, you know, one guy
385
00:23:17.869 --> 00:23:20.920
over there in Rome with standing armies to at will
386
00:23:20.980 --> 00:23:24.319
be able to essentially... damn and excommunicate entire kingdoms. It
387
00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:28.359
seems absurd because you have in the first thousand years
388
00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:34.150
canonical jurisdictional principles where bishops are many times in councils
389
00:23:34.230 --> 00:23:37.750
castigated for going outside of their jurisdictions and meddling in
390
00:23:37.789 --> 00:23:41.829
other jurisdictions, including patriarchates. And that's always been a squabble.
391
00:23:42.029 --> 00:23:44.390
But again, the fact that there's that real problem, it
392
00:23:44.410 --> 00:23:46.869
doesn't follow that this is the solution to that squabble.
393
00:23:47.509 --> 00:23:51.690
And the problem is, as other Orthodox theologians later highlight,
394
00:23:52.710 --> 00:23:54.849
And pay attention to what I'm saying, because this is
395
00:23:54.869 --> 00:23:58.089
a very often missed critique. People misunderstand what I'm saying.
396
00:23:59.230 --> 00:24:01.769
If we are correct in this critique, then what this
397
00:24:01.849 --> 00:24:09.640
actually does is it actually desacralizes the secular temporal sphere.
398
00:24:10.180 --> 00:24:12.559
And I'm not saying that there is technically a secular realm.
399
00:24:12.579 --> 00:24:14.160
I'm just saying that that's what we call the realm
400
00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:17.400
that's not directly dealing with religious affairs, right? So we
401
00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:20.799
talk about the polis or, you know, the government. We
402
00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:24.740
already had a pretty clear idea that there is Christian governance.
403
00:24:25.059 --> 00:24:28.390
When a society is Christianized, there's a Christian emperor, there
404
00:24:28.410 --> 00:24:31.569
are Christian kings. They have duties to God. They're not
405
00:24:31.650 --> 00:24:34.170
identical to the duties of the priesthood and the bishops,
406
00:24:34.289 --> 00:24:38.329
but the Byzantine emperor is a diakonos. He sits behind
407
00:24:38.390 --> 00:24:41.920
the iconostasis. He has a role, like a deacon almost,
408
00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:47.259
but not fully sacerdotal, but almost, kind of. So there
409
00:24:47.299 --> 00:24:51.250
is this sacred duty, and the political... temporal realm is
410
00:24:51.289 --> 00:24:59.500
still sacred. But if you take the spiritual domain, identify
411
00:24:59.539 --> 00:25:06.279
it as essentially a geopolitical power structure, what you've actually
412
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:11.480
done is secularized the state without knowing it. And that's
413
00:25:11.509 --> 00:25:13.970
what actually, as many saints have said this, that's actually
414
00:25:13.990 --> 00:25:18.049
what prepares the way for a secular society. Because what
415
00:25:18.089 --> 00:25:20.890
happens is you get this revolution against And this is
416
00:25:20.930 --> 00:25:23.549
what happens in the Reformation. It's not just about Luther's
417
00:25:23.589 --> 00:25:27.220
theology of justification. Luther gets the German princes on his
418
00:25:27.259 --> 00:25:29.039
side to support him because they're tired of the pope
419
00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:33.420
meddling in affairs thousands of miles away, right? A hundred
420
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:36.700
miles away, whatever. But the same idea applies. It's sort
421
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.119
of like, yes, we can understand the problem of the
422
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:44.180
kings interfering in the church and why the papacy would
423
00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:47.569
say we are the solution to that problem. But conversely,
424
00:25:47.589 --> 00:25:49.230
we can also then begin to say, well, wait a minute.
425
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:53.079
What if the papacy becomes corrupt, acts like a tyrannical king?
426
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:55.359
We have the same problem, although it now is worse
427
00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:59.740
because now we have this priest king who is essentially
428
00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:02.619
doing the same thing the kings were doing. And then
429
00:26:02.779 --> 00:26:07.559
you get the reformers and their state magistrates supporting the reform,
430
00:26:08.259 --> 00:26:12.079
probably not even out of theological, but out of get
431
00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:14.079
the pope out of our affairs.
432
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:16.230
I think, yeah, I think in the long term, It
433
00:26:16.490 --> 00:26:20.700
really paves the way to, our generous viewer might say,
434
00:26:22.019 --> 00:26:25.220
it sounds way older from the perspective of what we
435
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:28.720
did before, but actually what you described right now in
436
00:26:28.829 --> 00:26:31.789
many ways paves the way for everything we talked in
437
00:26:31.809 --> 00:26:35.009
the previous episodes. What I mean, you end up in
438
00:26:35.029 -->
00:26:42.740
this weird situation when everything politically open becomes desacretized. It's
439
00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:45.539
just about rationality, pragmatism, supposedly.
440
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:45.680
Yes.
441
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:52.279
Everything openly spiritually moves into the private.
442
00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:52.799
Matters of the heart.
443
00:26:53.420 --> 00:26:55.940
Or, as we know in the common people, well, you
444
00:26:55.980 --> 00:26:57.819
can believe in whatever you want to believe in, your
445
00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:00.700
own home, you can be this denomination, this denomination, but
446
00:27:01.259 --> 00:27:04.599
there is no space for it in a big public sphere,
447
00:27:04.660 --> 00:27:08.619
which later becomes what is called autonomy of human conscience,
448
00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:12.700
basically your own moral principle for which you are accountable to.
449
00:27:13.180 --> 00:27:19.210
But on the third level, because... By nature, everything is meaning-laden.
450
00:27:19.349 --> 00:27:22.829
Everything is theological. By nature, it has a theological element.
451
00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:26.730
So this split cannot hold unless you will do a
452
00:27:26.769 --> 00:27:30.609
third shift, which will move the real theological meaning into
453
00:27:30.650 --> 00:27:37.269
this hidden, let's say, behind-the-scenes areas. It esoterizes, I think.
454
00:27:37.490 --> 00:27:41.289
So the only spiritual becomes, again, esoteric. And that's kind
455
00:27:41.349 --> 00:27:46.019
of the move from which modernity erupts. And yes, later
456
00:27:46.059 --> 00:27:48.819
you have power groups. And what is more, and I
457
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:51.930
think that what comes like a real big unintended consequences
458
00:27:52.029 --> 00:27:55.190
for papacy and why, for example, I don't put Orthodox
459
00:27:55.230 --> 00:27:57.690
patriarchs in the same group. Well, one of them, they're
460
00:27:57.710 --> 00:28:01.579
not that present in America, but other is once you
461
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:05.200
made this move and you already understand yourself as a
462
00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:11.180
shepherd responsible also for worldly, very much worldly power geopolitical affairs,
463
00:28:12.019 --> 00:28:17.519
you actually end up having to mimic this esoteric structure
464
00:28:17.539 --> 00:28:18.880
to just be able to compete.
465
00:28:18.940 --> 00:28:20.900
To compete. A great point. Great, great point.
466
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:21.480
Exactly.
467
00:28:22.099 --> 00:28:24.880
That's essentially what I meant by the secularizing, meaning that
468
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:30.470
it essentially becomes like any other geopolitical world power using
469
00:28:30.490 --> 00:28:34.470
all the same techniques of espionage, banking. And that's why
470
00:28:34.490 --> 00:28:36.329
I want to move up to, you know, to make
471
00:28:36.369 --> 00:28:38.589
this more relevant to where we are now, because what
472
00:28:38.609
--> 00:28:43.289
happens is you know, the Papal States is a land group,
473
00:28:43.349 --> 00:28:45.690
a land mass for a time, and it begins to
474
00:28:45.829 --> 00:28:52.559
lose dominion, lose power. Up into the 1800s, they begin to, again, lose.
475
00:28:52.660 --> 00:28:56.700
And as you get Garibaldi, you get Masonic revolutions in Italy,
476
00:28:57.099 --> 00:29:00.839
they lose more and more of their lands and their holdings.
477
00:29:00.859 --> 00:29:02.700
I mean, and it's important, like, when we talk about
478
00:29:02.740 --> 00:29:07.359
Masons historically, to understand that important historical context, but for
479
00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:11.869
several millennia, the two biggest intelligence service opponents of each
480
00:29:12.049 --> 00:29:14.849
other were Jesuits on the one hand and MI6 on
481
00:29:14.869 --> 00:29:17.869
the other or British Secret Service on the other so
482
00:29:17.910 --> 00:29:21.920
British Secret Service was specifically established by Queen Elizabeth as
483
00:29:21.980 --> 00:29:25.380
an alternative which will later develop into Rothstein project but
484
00:29:25.619 --> 00:29:29.440
they were literally developed to counter Vatican influence in Britain
485
00:29:29.509 --> 00:29:32.200
which Again, I don't likely need to defend either, but
486
00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:36.309
you can see how this reaction, counter-reaction starts, these wheels
487
00:29:36.329 --> 00:29:39.470
are starting to simply work around. So because you're in
488
00:29:39.509 --> 00:29:44.460
this game, and you already created this esotericism, hidden meanings,
489
00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:48.619
hidden place, you end up having to fight. Basically, fight
490
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:51.680
between Masons on Vatican, like it's kind of one of
491
00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:55.950
the biggest hidden, not that hidden in plain sight, you
492
00:29:55.990 --> 00:29:56.589
can say, but.
493
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:03.500
Nerves of, let's say, last 400 years, maybe until very recently.
494
00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:06.839
And the key point here is that it is precisely
495
00:30:06.859 --> 00:30:08.279
the Vatican that loses this battle.
496
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:09.519
Yeah.
497
00:30:09.559 --> 00:30:14.660
Because they've stepped into this domain of a kind of,
498
00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:17.740
as Dostoevsky presents it, sort of deal with the devil,
499
00:30:17.869 --> 00:30:19.960
you could say, when you have the Inquisitor, you know,
500
00:30:20.049 --> 00:30:25.049
and Grand Inquisitor. And they've realized that in order to
501
00:30:25.109 --> 00:30:29.250
maintain the Vatican empire that we have, we will have
502
00:30:29.289 --> 00:30:32.289
to be more and more and more like the things
503
00:30:32.329 --> 00:30:33.430
that we're supposedly fighting.
504
00:30:34.049 --> 00:30:34.170
Yeah.
505
00:30:34.450 --> 00:30:36.450
And so what happens, and I'm glad you pointed out
506
00:30:36.490 --> 00:30:40.990
the British imperial
struggles, because you're absolutely right that, you know,
507
00:30:41.069 --> 00:30:45.390
initially the Jesuits are this sort of fringe order that's
508
00:30:45.450 --> 00:30:48.579
eventually sort of regularized. And there are these squabbles back
509
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:51.539
and forth for some time between being, you know, banned
510
00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:54.420
and then allowed back. And But eventually what happens is
511
00:30:54.799 --> 00:31:00.950
the Jesuits themselves, according to recent, extremely well-documented geopolitical texts,
512
00:31:01.430 --> 00:31:03.890
they eventually succumb to the Western power structure.
513
00:31:04.410 --> 00:31:07.150
What's the name of it? Yeah, so, and I.
514
00:31:07.369 --> 00:31:09.349
Meant to bring all the books, but I didn't think
515
00:31:09.369 --> 00:31:14.339
to bring them. So there's a great famous Catholic scholar
516
00:31:14.420 --> 00:31:16.460
and lawyer. His name is David Wimhoff, and he wrote
517
00:31:16.500 --> 00:31:18.880
a big 800-page book sort of detailing the history of
518
00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:23.990
the 20th century. from a geopolitics perspective of the Vatican
519
00:31:24.009 --> 00:31:26.529
and Vatican II. And what he demonstrates is some of
520
00:31:26.549 --> 00:31:30.710
the key Jesuits that were major players at Vatican II
521
00:31:31.410 --> 00:31:35.079
were 100% openly working with the CIA. So essentially the
522
00:31:35.130 --> 00:31:39.059
Western intelligence structure, maybe not the British Empire, but essentially
523
00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:42.799
the Pax Americana, were able to eventually step in and
524
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:47.730
say to the Vatican, look, we're not gonna maybe be
525
00:31:47.769 --> 00:31:52.579
able to get you right now to affirm every technocratic
526
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:58.779
or antinatalist position, but we're going to want you to
527
00:31:58.839 --> 00:32:01.599
move in the direction of Americanism at Vatican II. And
528
00:32:01.619 --> 00:32:03.980
so the thesis of the book is essentially that what
529
00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:08.230
the Vatican had only a few decades earlier condemned as Americanism,
530
00:32:08.509 --> 00:32:14.029
the idea of liberty, equality, capitalism as the summum bonum
531
00:32:14.089 --> 00:32:19.000
of human life, that's not true. And that Catholicism in
532
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:25.480
America was being supplanted with Americanism first, Catholicism second.
533
00:32:25.819 --> 00:32:26.059
Yeah.
534
00:32:26.220 --> 00:32:28.240
And this has always been within American, all the way
535
00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:30.279
back to the founding of the country with the Carroll family.
536
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:33.400
This has been a struggle for Roman Catholicism in America. Well,
537
00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:36.579
let's move to that. Well, this is important, though, because
538
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:38.559
it gets up to where we're with the Papal States,
539
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:41.299
the Vatican Bank, because are we more allegiant to the papacy?
540
00:32:41.380 --> 00:32:41.539
Yeah.
541
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:43.480
Or are we more allegiant to our nation? And that's
542
00:32:43.500 --> 00:32:46.029
a constant problem. Like, I brought Masons because, for example,
543
00:32:46.349 --> 00:32:51.000
this is the I don't know, claim Catholics always had
544
00:32:51.019 --> 00:32:54.240
to defend themselves, basically, when they, especially in America.
545
00:32:54.259 --> 00:32:54.779
Right.
546
00:32:54.819 --> 00:32:56.839
I mean, you don't know, but for the first.
547
00:32:56.859 --> 00:32:59.809
Let's say, 100 years, there was a super strong anti-Catholic
548
00:32:59.869 --> 00:33:04.869
sentiment in America, and there were lots of caricatures seeing
549
00:33:05.829 --> 00:33:08.109
them exactly as all of them as the Pope's agents
550
00:33:08.210 --> 00:33:11.259
and traitors. But, like, the question, double loyalty question. So,
551
00:33:11.380 --> 00:33:13.200
are you loyal to the Pope or are you loyal
552
00:33:13.220 --> 00:33:15.720
to America? Like, let's say, are you loyal to us
553
00:33:15.740 --> 00:33:17.880
Masons or are you loyal to the Pope? So, that
554
00:33:17.900 --> 00:33:19.859
would be It's a big conflict playing.
555
00:33:20.140 --> 00:33:22.799
And at the same time, throughout these centuries, again, so
556
00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:26.690
you got geopolitical stuff with the papacy losing temporal power,
557
00:33:26.789 --> 00:33:31.690
the papal states, their land holdings, et cetera, being reduced. Essentially,
558
00:33:32.069 --> 00:33:33.670
Pius IX, the Pope of Vatican I, he ends up
559
00:33:33.710 --> 00:33:35.450
walled up in the Vatican with all the Masons and
560
00:33:35.490 --> 00:33:39.519
revolutionaries outside holding him. He's under house arrest. So that
561
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:43.549
prompted him to be more in line with the the
562
00:33:43.849 --> 00:33:45.910
idea of having Vatican I because he thought that would
563
00:33:45.930 --> 00:33:48.549
sort of shore up the power of the papacy. But
564
00:33:49.170 --> 00:33:51.269
here's what I'm getting to. This is the big picture here.
565
00:33:51.710 --> 00:33:55.369
What happens is in the 1830s, you begin to have
566
00:33:55.690 --> 00:34:00.769
significant Rothschild loans to the Vatican. The Vatican needs these
567
00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:04.200
loans because they're already indebted and they're losing land. I
568
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:08.760
think they lost significant portions, actually two other members of
569
00:34:08.780 --> 00:34:11.039
the Rothschild clan that were sent to the various countries.
570
00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:14.590
So now they're indebted and they end up taking out
571
00:34:14.650 --> 00:34:17.469
multiple loans. And so this puts them in significant amounts
572
00:34:17.510 --> 00:34:21.530
of debt. And the Rottos actually become the official Vatican
573
00:34:21.710 --> 00:34:25.070
bankers for a long time. And I think this is
574
00:34:25.110 --> 00:34:27.389
the key point of when we can begin to see
575
00:34:27.429 --> 00:34:30.110
this sort of downfall. At the same time as that's
576
00:34:30.150 --> 00:34:33.380
happening on the monetary side of the Vatican's problems, they're
577
00:34:33.409 --> 00:34:36.920
also ideologically losing a lot of ground to the Protestant Reformation, obviously,
578
00:34:37.300 --> 00:34:40.519
but also they're beginning to lose ground to liberalism. Liberalism
579
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:45.010
theologically had crept into many, many Catholic universities in the 1890s.
580
00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:50.260
And so you have the papacy beginning to release encyclical
581
00:34:50.300 --> 00:34:51.179
after encyclical.
582
00:34:52.019 --> 00:34:52.500
Condemning.
583
00:34:52.880 --> 00:35:00.269
Condemning, masonry, liberalism, naturalism, on and on, modernism. The sainted pope, right,
584
00:35:00.289 --> 00:35:03.389
Pius X, his most famous encyclical, Pacendi, is this giant
585
00:35:03.650 --> 00:35:10.039
refutation of, Everything from ecumenism to modernism to socialism, communism,
586
00:35:10.179 --> 00:35:14.300
everything is being condemned because they're sort of in panic
587
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:19.360
mode because they're losing massively. And then the Wim Hof book,
588
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.559
I think, is a key point to go beyond just
589
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:29.090
the theological issues to the American Western oligarchical power structure,
590
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:31.789
which had been trying to get the Vatican to change
591
00:35:31.849 --> 00:35:36.530
its stances on abortion, contraception. these moral issues, which it
592
00:35:36.590 --> 00:35:39.139
would not do, even up to Paul VI, they had
593
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:42.679
caved a little bit. But at Vatican II, what you
594
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:47.860
have is Jesuits coming in, admittedly, most famously John Courtney Murray,
595
00:35:47.900 --> 00:35:50.079
who worked with the CIA on what was called the
596
00:35:50.139 --> 00:35:53.849
Doctrinal Warfare Program. This was run by a guy named C.D. Jackson,
597
00:35:55.289 --> 00:35:57.989
who worked with Henry Luce of Time Magazine. And the
598
00:35:58.010 --> 00:36:00.329
whole project was essentially, number one, to get the Vatican
599
00:36:00.369 --> 00:36:06.460
on board with ecumenism, using the Vatican and the apparatus
600
00:36:06.500 --> 00:36:09.639
of the church as a form of soft power for Americanism,
601
00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:12.969
that's why the CIA was so interested in this, against
602
00:36:13.570 --> 00:36:17.050
the Cold War, against the Soviets, against the communists. It
603
00:36:17.090 --> 00:36:21.849
becomes a form of soft power. The Vatican can announce ecumenism,
604
00:36:21.889 --> 00:36:23.510
and this is very important to understand because people don't
605
00:36:23.530 --> 00:36:31.219
understand this. Ecumenism is the religious application of Americanism. That's
606
00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:34.119
the thesis of the Wim Hof book. All of the
607
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:37.289
early OSS guys, the guys that are going out and
608
00:36:37.329 --> 00:36:40.530
doing their operations with Bill Donovan, they were rabid ecumenists.
609
00:36:41.269 --> 00:36:45.829
The early recruits that the CIA had, even amongst people
610
00:36:45.849 --> 00:36:49.420
in the Vatican, were people like Father Felix Morleone, who
611
00:36:49.460 --> 00:36:53.880
was a famous Dominican ecumenist. Jacques Maritain comes in, and
612
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:58.199
he's a key figure to influence Vatican II theology to
613
00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:05.309
move towards dechristianization of Christian states towards a secular pluralism.
614
00:37:06.630 --> 00:37:11.130
You have the Jesuits are even more radical as secular pluralists.
615
00:37:11.429 --> 00:37:15.590
So the idea is we can revamp and reform the
616
00:37:15.750 --> 00:37:19.670
image of Catholicism in the Vatican by now taking up
617
00:37:19.829 --> 00:37:25.610
the Reformation positions of radical religious liberty and religious pluralism.
618
00:37:25.909 --> 00:37:29.320
But the problem is that this church has already undergone
619
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:35.460
several revolutions to fit with the times. And as Vatican
620
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:38.110
I argued that we need to have a strong papal
621
00:37:38.150 --> 00:37:41.449
stance to fight the spirit of the times, the problem
622
00:37:41.510 --> 00:37:47.130
is that if your church is already acclimatized to a giornamento,
623
00:37:47.190 --> 00:37:50.050
as they call it, there's no reason why it can't
624
00:37:50.110 --> 00:37:53.570
go in a liberal direction. In other words, if you
625
00:37:53.590 --> 00:37:59.429
can renovate and innovate, there's no logic that dictates it
626
00:37:59.510 --> 00:38:02.909
has to be in a conservative direction. It can renovate
627
00:38:03.349 --> 00:38:05.230
in a liberal direction. And so that's why you see
628
00:38:05.289 --> 00:38:08.889
the swing at the time of Leo XIII with his
629
00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:16.800
strict traditional anti-Masonic, anti-communist dictates. Pius X basically the same.
630
00:38:17.860 --> 00:38:21.940
Pius XI still holds to this. But ironically, the one
631
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:24.690
guy that's kind of forgotten in there, Benedict XV, he
632
00:38:24.730 --> 00:38:27.780
was a liberal. Benedict XV supported League of Nations. He
633
00:38:27.820 --> 00:38:31.199
was pro-Fabian Socialist. Then you have this, so they got scared.
634
00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:33.500
Then you have this swing back with Pius XI towards,
635
00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:37.460
he bans ecumenism. He bans interfaith gatherings because he sees
636
00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:41.139
that in his encyclical, Mortalium Animus in 1928, as a
637
00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:46.489
surrendering of the faith. Then suddenly after Pius XII, the
638
00:38:46.510 --> 00:38:50.849
sort of last holdout of so-called conservatism, we get John XXIII,
639
00:38:51.349 --> 00:38:53.980
whom they called the Pink Pope. because he wrote Pacem
640
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.860
in Terris, this encyclical that we need world government. You've
641
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:59.420
never seen this from a Pope before. Almost night and
642
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:02.360
day with what the ones before him had said. There
643
00:39:02.389 --> 00:39:05.329
was a lot of rumors that John XXIII was a
644
00:39:05.369 --> 00:39:08.429
Mason or a Rosicrucian. We don't know if that's verified,
645
00:39:08.449 --> 00:39:13.409
but it's a rumor. And then you get Paul VI,
646
00:39:13.650 --> 00:39:17.809
who is more explicitly, openly, who the CIA wanted, because
647
00:39:17.849 --> 00:39:20.260
they thought, we don't want another John XXIII. He wants
648
00:39:20.300 --> 00:39:24.429
to meet with the Soviets. He wants to bring the Soviets.
649
00:39:24.449 --> 00:39:27.289
He had these meetings, right? In fact, John XXIII was
650
00:39:27.309 --> 00:39:31.389
the first to bring Baptists into prayer ecumenical meetings in
651
00:39:31.409 --> 00:39:34.130
the Vatican, before Vatican II. So you already have with
652
00:39:34.150 --> 00:39:37.570
John XXIII a radical shift. And then with Paul VI,
653
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:42.119
the idea is not a return to conservatism. It's an
654
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:46.360
American-friendly pope, the most American-friendly pope. And so he represents
655
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:50.989
a shift away from the pink pope to the CIA pope. explicitly.
656
00:39:52.110 --> 00:39:54.289
I just wanted to say, I guess to me, the
657
00:39:54.329 --> 00:39:57.570
story I want to share is this. It's actually happened
658
00:39:57.630 --> 00:40:02.230
in the movie. I remember this about the recent movie,
659
00:40:02.309 --> 00:40:06.789
I think it's from Coppola, about the Jesuit missionary in Japan.
660
00:40:07.090 --> 00:40:07.510
Have you seen it?
661
00:40:07.690 --> 00:40:09.070
I'm familiar with it, I've not seen it. I heard
662
00:40:09.090 --> 00:40:09.869
it's good, but yeah.
663
00:40:10.289 --> 00:40:14.039
It's pretty good, but it actually represents the ethos from
664
00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:19.400
the internal logic why these moves are possible. Uh, Because
665
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:24.000
to me, I think the key principle is since you
666
00:40:24.019 --> 00:40:26.260
have to shepherd and since you have to govern all
667
00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:30.150
of this messy area of power play, let me put
668
00:40:30.210 --> 00:40:32.969
it this way, which is, as we discussed, is inherently
669
00:40:33.210 --> 00:40:37.409
demonic in many ways. So like one way is Cybele, Isis, Gevestus,
670
00:40:37.449 --> 00:40:43.280
et cetera, et cetera. You might go through the periods
671
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:45.699
where you accumulate more power. You can come through the
672
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:47.420
periods when you accumulate less power.
673
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:47.519
You.
674
00:40:48.280 --> 00:40:51.519
more successful, you're less successful. But you can definitely build
675
00:40:51.539 --> 00:40:55.099
yourself an argument. So you are preserving in yourself. So
676
00:40:55.500 --> 00:40:59.030
adapting to those periods of time. So you are preserving
677
00:40:59.070 --> 00:41:02.750
this core, this tiny wooden cross. So basically the gist
678
00:41:02.789 --> 00:41:05.170
of the movie, so this is a Portuguese missionary, he
679
00:41:05.230 --> 00:41:08.849
comes into Japan, and Japanese Christians are heavily prosecuted, and
680
00:41:08.889 --> 00:41:11.269
there is a whole story, and he is looking for
681
00:41:11.329 --> 00:41:14.250
his spiritual teacher who apparently became a heretical and now
682
00:41:14.309 --> 00:41:17.320
works for Japanese government, and he keeps looking and looking,
683
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:20.599
he finally meets him, and he confirms, yes, it is happening,
684
00:41:20.659 --> 00:41:22.360
and he says that the soil of this land is
685
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:24.980
not good for Christianity, and all we are doing is
686
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:29.199
we are basically... making these people suffer for nothing that's
687
00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:31.780
kind of the story and then the hero goes through
688
00:41:31.820 --> 00:41:37.090
crisis that being witnessing his the last let's say the
689
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:42.010
church he's been preaching to members executed he just basically
690
00:41:42.050 --> 00:41:46.349
surrenders and then become a Japanese agent helping to absolutely
691
00:41:46.369 --> 00:41:50.469
he's looking for any form of hidden Christian goods smuggled
692
00:41:50.530 --> 00:41:52.869
into Japan and he's like spending most of his life
693
00:41:52.889 --> 00:41:55.969
like this he like, marries a Japanese woman. Basically, he's
694
00:41:56.010 --> 00:41:58.449
going all over. And then he's buried. And then in
695
00:41:58.469 --> 00:42:01.539
the final scene, he has this, basically, a tiny wooden
696
00:42:01.579 --> 00:42:05.119
cross in his hands like this when he's buried, which
697
00:42:05.460 --> 00:42:07.099
you can read as many symbols. But I think the
698
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:10.679
symbol is he basically, in his way, keeps his face,
699
00:42:10.699 --> 00:42:13.860
but he's been doing the right things in this moment
700
00:42:13.900 --> 00:42:17.090
in a secular time. And why I think it's relevant
701
00:42:17.110 --> 00:42:19.070
to your story, because basically you can see how from
702
00:42:19.090 --> 00:42:19.590
this point.
703
00:42:21.429 --> 00:42:28.849
Banking rothschilds cia mi6 world government you kind of can
704
00:42:28.889 --> 00:42:33.650
really easily build an argument okay first position i'm strong
705
00:42:33.690 --> 00:42:36.570
enough so i can just fight it openly and i
706
00:42:36.690 --> 00:42:39.820
can prevent it from
happening openly i have princes i
707
00:42:39.860 --> 00:42:42.719
command i have armies i command i have all of
708
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:44.800
the things i can command and we can do it
709
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:48.000
as long as we can but we're moving later and
710
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:51.289
yes in this power struggle we'll Suffering defeats.
711
00:42:51.469 --> 00:42:52.989
Brits, huge defeats.
712
00:42:53.070 --> 00:42:56.409
And Masons in France, the favorite daughter of the church
713
00:42:56.429 --> 00:43:02.280
is becoming basically this horrible Masonic revolutionary hellscape and et cetera.
714
00:43:02.300 --> 00:43:04.820
Then revolution in Italy. Then we are losing. Like we've
715
00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:07.159
already been in a banking, but we'll say some success,
716
00:43:07.179 --> 00:43:11.929
some unsuccessful like this, Rochelle. So what is the next
717
00:43:12.010 --> 00:43:14.949
back step if you can't fight something directly?
718
00:43:15.849 --> 00:43:16.409
You have a choice.
719
00:43:16.429 --> 00:43:20.260
You can either stand outside and just keep losing. Like,
720
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:24.639
but trying to keep this purity of faith and open
721
00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:29.800
purity of faith. Or you can do basically the trick
722
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:34.690
because your intentions are good. And this hidden trick is
723
00:43:34.949 --> 00:43:36.949
you actually is now starting to be want a part
724
00:43:36.969 --> 00:43:39.809
of every tribe. Now you want to hatch your bets.
725
00:43:39.889 --> 00:43:45.219
Now you want to basically get inside of every single Rothschild, CIA, MS,
726
00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:50.440
like technocrats. Mm-hmm. as we will see recently, world government,
727
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.230
et cetera. Because basically, if you cannot defeat it, lead it.
728
00:43:54.070 --> 00:43:54.800
That's very.
729
00:43:54.860 --> 00:43:59.789
Yeah, in fact, and there are even writers, intellectuals from
730
00:43:59.929 --> 00:44:04.650
within that Vatican sphere who have said this. They've said essentially, well,
731
00:44:04.730 --> 00:44:09.010
what we're at is this nitty-gritty battle for control of
732
00:44:09.030 --> 00:44:12.170
the new world order, so to speak. Whatever that emerging
733
00:44:12.190 --> 00:44:15.829
world order is, we are going to have to adapt to...
734
00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:19.239
to run it yeah so absolutely and that's why.
735
00:44:19.070 --> 00:44:21.489
Because who else run it so you can surrender your
736
00:44:21.530 --> 00:44:25.369
responsibility which you've been carrying for thousands of years or
737
00:44:25.389 --> 00:44:28.769
you have to adapt to if anything that's why I
738
00:44:28.789 --> 00:44:31.610
brought the film because it kind of it looks like
739
00:44:31.650 --> 00:44:34.139
a tragedy from an outsider but we already brought an
740
00:44:34.179 --> 00:44:38.659
esoteric element but esoterically speaking in a certain way it's
741
00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:41.699
a very heroic noble act and you still keep your
742
00:44:41.739 --> 00:44:44.659
face you still keep it like it's still this hidden
743
00:44:44.699 --> 00:44:48.389
in your But you're just going through the suffering of
744
00:44:48.469 --> 00:44:51.469
this period of time, so later something good might come
745
00:44:51.570 --> 00:44:54.190
out of it. And you can easily see how this
746
00:44:54.489 --> 00:44:59.659
problem of double influence starts becoming inescapable and even desirable.
747
00:44:59.739 --> 00:45:01.920
So you now want to be part of it. So
748
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:05.940
to gain your resources back, okay. So the direct fight
749
00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:10.269
with masons led to depleting our resources. Well, now let's
750
00:45:10.329 --> 00:45:14.550
blend together. Let's take control from the insects. Might have worked,
751
00:45:14.570 --> 00:45:17.800
might have not, but within this logic, it doesn't sound
752
00:45:17.900 --> 00:45:20.960
crazy to try. And it doesn't sound evil to try.
753
00:45:20.980 --> 00:45:26.579
What I'm saying is it is the 11th century geopolitical
754
00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:29.320
realpolitik just updated.
755
00:45:29.860 --> 00:45:30.500
Exactly.
756
00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:32.840
That's what I'm saying. I'm showing how this logic, which
757
00:45:32.860 --> 00:45:35.260
you would say, what connects 11th century with the 20th.
758
00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:39.070
But logic actually stays the same. Context changes. And yes,
759
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:43.050
what looks... And that's why... actually, and I agree with
760
00:45:43.070 --> 00:45:47.090
you here, the position is consistent. It's context differs, and
761
00:45:47.130 --> 00:45:51.769
that's why it looks differently. But the core position actually
762
00:45:51.809 --> 00:45:55.090
stays consistent from back then till now. And that's what's
763
00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:58.119
kind of, I think, is Vatican justification. And then all
764
00:45:58.139 --> 00:46:01.619
of the strengths of the Vatican are still there. It's
765
00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:07.610
ultimately the biggest network ever exists. Like, network of priests, monasteries,
766
00:46:07.650 --> 00:46:11.309
for every possible way of life. Like, and For example,
767
00:46:11.570 --> 00:46:14.429
I actually learned recently that, I forgot the name, but
768
00:46:14.469 --> 00:46:18.929
apparently Jesuits are kind of becoming old, spent 400 years
769
00:46:18.969 --> 00:46:21.469
being up front. But for example, there is now all
770
00:46:21.550 --> 00:46:24.679
new different religious orders which are kind of integrating or
771
00:46:24.739 --> 00:46:30.840
proselytizing among hippies or proselytizing among, let's say, specific social
772
00:46:30.860 --> 00:46:33.559
groups in different places of, let's say, Latin America or etc.
773
00:46:33.579 --> 00:46:37.119
But basically, you can easily adapt. The structure is very adaptable.
774
00:46:37.159
--> 00:46:39.500
You can basically have a group of missionaries who will
775
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:43.110
proselytize among let's say CIA, yes, and it will almost
776
00:46:43.150 --> 00:46:46.449
look indistinguishable by CIA, but within this logic, it's still
777
00:46:47.789 --> 00:46:51.429
an action of control and care and operation and ultimately
778
00:46:51.449 --> 00:46:54.670
for the greater good. And ultimately, there is nobody to judge.
779
00:46:55.150 --> 00:46:59.460
I think Russian author Alexander Sergeyevich Pushkin in his famous
780
00:46:59.699 --> 00:47:04.219
Boris Godunov play, he actually gives this Jesuit internal logic.
781
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:06.699
In my opinion, it's one of the most eloquent ways
782
00:47:06.739 --> 00:47:11.980
of showing the internal monologue. An internal monologue is something
783
00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:15.159
like this in English, and then I will quote it
784
00:47:15.219 --> 00:47:20.320
in Russian. So in English it sounds like, sometimes you
785
00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:24.269
have a duty to hide your true intentions in front
786
00:47:24.309 --> 00:47:28.789
of the outside world, because people can only judge your actions,
787
00:47:29.230 --> 00:47:32.289
but the intentions of your heart will be judged only
788
00:47:32.329 --> 00:47:35.699
by God. And you see how it justifies this duplicity.
789
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:38.889
So you can do many different things. Basically, it justifies, like,
790
00:47:38.929 --> 00:47:42.909
multiple ethical systems, in fact. But it is consistent in itself.
791
00:47:42.989 --> 00:47:45.969
And in Russian, it's like... So we have a sacred
792
00:47:45.989 --> 00:47:48.090
duty sometimes to carry masks in front of the audiences.
793
00:47:48.659 --> 00:47:50.579
That's kind of the... So it's a sacred duty to
794
00:47:50.599 --> 00:48:07.260
be an actor in front of the outsiders... your intentions
795
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:10.380
will be judged by God. And that justifies anything you're
796
00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:11.000
going to do later.
797
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:15.280
Yeah, that's actually very, it's very Jesuit. It's also, you
798
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:20.190
have within the Roman Catholic tradition, in fact, with people
799
00:48:20.230 --> 00:48:23.570
like Alphonsus Liguori, they even got to the point where
800
00:48:23.630 --> 00:48:27.349
they could, they had a whole list of exclusions that
801
00:48:27.389 --> 00:48:30.289
would allow you to lie. So you could actually lie
802
00:48:30.329 --> 00:48:34.929
in many cases with various ends justify the means based
803
00:48:35.150 --> 00:48:39.539
on the scenario, the situation, et cetera. But, you know, the,
804
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:41.659
the criticism is that, well, this ultimately is a sort
805
00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:45.250
of a Pandora's box of Kazustry to essentially, uh, almost
806
00:48:45.289 --> 00:48:48.130
like the Pharisees, you can then justify any of your
807
00:48:48.250 --> 00:48:51.710
actions conceivably. So any bad action could be justified by
808
00:48:51.769 --> 00:48:53.650
some potential, like exclusionary principle.
809
00:48:53.670 --> 00:48:56.110
And remember before, like, then that's why was this story,
810
00:48:56.130 --> 00:48:58.800
this old story of the split with the councils matters
811
00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:01.159
so much because there is no authority above you. There
812
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:04.590
is no equal, even in theory. Which can hold you
813
00:49:04.630 --> 00:49:05.809
to true accountability.
814
00:49:05.849 --> 00:49:06.199
Exactly.
815
00:49:06.699 --> 00:49:09.119
But here's the problem, though, is that that wedding to,
816
00:49:09.420 --> 00:49:14.980
you know, worldly geopolitical machinations and intrigues eventually ends up
817
00:49:15.059 --> 00:49:19.739
making you a sort of, you are essentially pimped out.
818
00:49:20.050 --> 00:49:20.380
Right?
819
00:49:20.409 --> 00:49:24.239
You're essentially a whore to whichever power structure is able
820
00:49:24.300 --> 00:49:25.559
to control and subvert you.
821
00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:28.639
And that's what we actually- Well, I think people will,
822
00:49:29.219 --> 00:49:31.260
who pimps out who? I think that's what would be
823
00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:31.639
the difference.
824
00:49:31.659 --> 00:49:34.179
No, I'm saying that there could be periods when the papacy,
825
00:49:34.340 --> 00:49:36.400
but what I'm saying is in the 11th century, the
826
00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:38.719
papacy is the tool of German kings.
827
00:49:38.739 --> 00:49:38.820
Yes.
828
00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:42.179
And I'm saying that's not the case now. But what
829
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:45.639
happens is that because of the rise of the banking
830
00:49:45.699 --> 00:49:49.739
power in the 1800s, particularly the Rothschild banking power, and
831
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:53.820
that's essentially who's behind the British Empire eventually. So they're
832
00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:55.039
sort of running the Bank of England.
833
00:49:55.079 --> 00:49:57.659
And that's why Vatican ends up losing. Exactly. That's what
834
00:49:57.679 --> 00:49:57.969
I'm saying.
835
00:49:58.010 --> 00:50:01.289
But in this defeat, they're kind of rising up. They
836
00:50:01.309 --> 00:50:03.289
would say, but now we are rising up like a phoenix.
837
00:50:03.369 --> 00:50:05.150
Look at, for example, who are the judges of the
838
00:50:05.190 --> 00:50:06.469
Supreme Court in America?
839
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:07.679
Catholics. Okay.
840
00:50:07.699 --> 00:50:12.619
But I mean, I understand the pragmatic reasoning, but the
841
00:50:12.659 --> 00:50:18.789
problem is that from the Orthodox standpoint, this pragmatism is self-defeating.
842
00:50:18.829 --> 00:50:19.150
Of course.
843
00:50:19.190 --> 00:50:22.429
Because it's really no different than the pragmatism of the technocrat.
844
00:50:21.949 --> 00:50:22.630
Or anyone else.
845
00:50:22.690 --> 00:50:26.039
And that's why you see the Vatican beginning to, it
846
00:50:26.059 --> 00:50:29.880
already begins with, now the liberalism and the Masonic, you know,
847
00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:32.619
infiltration and all that, that's warned about all the way
848
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:36.510
in the 1800s. It's warned about early on in the 19,
849
00:50:36.510 --> 00:50:41.460
you know, early encyclicals in the 1900s. And then it
850
00:50:41.500 --> 00:50:45.199
becomes the liberalism in the Catholic universities and the schools
851
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:48.510
that's warned about. But what happens is that simultaneously to
852
00:50:48.530 --> 00:50:51.610
all these external attacks, there is from within an internal
853
00:50:51.690 --> 00:50:58.559
subversion that results in dogmatizing the new reforms.
854
00:50:58.579 --> 00:50:58.650
Yes.
855
00:50:59.650 --> 00:51:02.190
And everyone focuses on, and they should be focused on,
856
00:51:02.210 --> 00:51:06.679
you know, Nostra Aetate is the sort of American, you know,
857
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:09.960
freedom of choice buffet of religions approach to, well, we're
858
00:51:10.019 --> 00:51:13.840
all worshiping the same God, but in different degrees. And
859
00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:15.800
so you get sort of the model of the Pope
860
00:51:15.860 --> 00:51:19.079
is now not just a head of Christendom, but he's
861
00:51:19.159 --> 00:51:22.119
actually kind of the head of all the world religions. Yeah.
862
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:25.219
Because they're all in degrees of communion with Rome. So
863
00:51:25.260 --> 00:51:28.559
the move of degrees of communion is, with Orthodox and
864
00:51:28.619 --> 00:51:32.760
Protestants and the ecumenist movement expanded to actually all the
865
00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:34.219
world religions are, you know.
866
00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:35.940
In some way, a little bit.
867
00:51:36.300 --> 00:51:40.409
Muslims are maybe 20% in communion with us. Protestants, 50,
868
00:51:40.409 --> 00:51:44.030
60% communion. Orthodox, 80, 90% communion. So you see the
869
00:51:44.090 --> 00:51:46.289
logic of it. And the Pope will then be this
870
00:51:46.349 --> 00:51:48.489
sort of unifying world figure.
871
00:51:48.949 --> 00:51:52.750
Which works great with us for what we were talking
872
00:51:52.769 --> 00:51:57.239
about with pragmatic power and I'm sure the Vatican would say, well,
873
00:51:57.300 --> 00:51:58.179
we're forced into this position.
874
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:00.039
That's what we have to do. But here's the thing.
875
00:52:00.059 --> 00:52:04.460
At Vatican II, you don't just have these Nostra Aetate
876
00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:08.179
III and Lumen Gentium XVI statements about world religions. You
877
00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:10.860
have another document that everybody overlooks called Gaudium et Spes.
878
00:52:11.050 --> 00:52:15.309
And Gaudium et Spes is the Vatican II geopolitical stance.
879
00:52:15.409 --> 00:52:17.989
It's their official statement on, okay, where do we stand
880
00:52:18.010 --> 00:52:20.989
in relationship to the United Nations, in relationship to nationalism,
881
00:52:21.010 --> 00:52:24.210
in relationship to disarmament, in relationship to migration? And it
882
00:52:24.250 --> 00:52:27.679
essentially adopts the United Nations-UNESCO approach.
883
00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:30.829
It says basically- Written by Huxley. Ironically, how these guys
884
00:52:30.909 --> 00:52:32.889
are connected. Well, that's how it.
885
00:52:32.809 --> 00:52:36.130
Gets- And Gaudium et Spes says, we support UNESCO. We
886
00:52:36.150 --> 00:52:37.530
support the United Nations approach.
887
00:52:37.590 --> 00:52:40.050
And that's why now our voice will be heard matters
888
00:52:40.150 --> 00:52:41.610
and we can actually now- We have a seat.
889
00:52:41.489 --> 00:52:42.530
At the table again. Yeah.
890
00:52:42.860 --> 00:52:44.820
We used to be a power. Now we're going to
891
00:52:44.860 --> 00:52:46.119
be a power again because we're going to have a
892
00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:48.219
seat at the table. So again, it's just a sort
893
00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:52.719
of worship of sort of pragmatic power, which again, ironically,
894
00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:55.590
in the long run, if the Vatican had kept its
895
00:52:56.170 --> 00:53:00.849
traditional stances, they would outlast these things rather than taking
896
00:53:00.909 --> 00:53:04.369
the compromise, we have to work together with the world approach.
897
00:53:04.550 --> 00:53:10.619
But I think that's the temptation that Dostoevsky highlights, that
898
00:53:10.659 --> 00:53:14.440
the Vatican was tempted with when Jesus was brought up
899
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:17.599
on the mountain and he's given those temptations. That's essentially
900
00:53:17.619 --> 00:53:19.659
what the Vatican said, yeah, we will rule with you.
901
00:53:19.940 --> 00:53:21.960
And then eventually it's like, Jesus, you're kind of in
902
00:53:21.980 --> 00:53:23.630
the way of, our project.
903
00:53:23.849 --> 00:53:26.869
I mean, because, I mean, and again, that's a big problem, like,
904
00:53:26.889 --> 00:53:31.679
within Christian logic, this whole salvation has had a logical anxiety,
905
00:53:31.820 --> 00:53:35.320
because that's kind of the whole spirit of reform is
906
00:53:35.539 --> 00:53:37.699
based upon, because we don't know when the second coming
907
00:53:37.739 --> 00:53:39.820
will be, and all the different attempts to say no,
908
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:43.739
you know, every century there is some group which says,
909
00:53:43.860 --> 00:53:45.880
I know for sure it's happening right here, right now,
910
00:53:46.360 --> 00:53:48.519
then it keeps falling and falling and falling, but the
911
00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:52.719
problems are still there, and basically we you can definitely
912
00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:55.940
build a pragmatic argument. We need to work with what
913
00:53:55.980 --> 00:53:58.699
we have. And in many ways, I
can even see,
914
00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:01.840
for example, when an Orthodox priest is working with me
915
00:54:01.860 --> 00:54:04.099
as a sinner, it's effectively the same argument. Well, I
916
00:54:04.119 --> 00:54:06.960
can't work for you when you're a saint. We need
917
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:09.699
to take you as a, let's say, sick sinner, and
918
00:54:09.739 --> 00:54:12.510
we will work together as a healing person. Hopefully, Jesus
919
00:54:12.550 --> 00:54:15.050
Christ heals you. Like, you know, it will happen. And
920
00:54:15.550 --> 00:54:19.710
kind of ironically mirroring this principle on a geopolitical arena is,
921
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:22.360
That's kind of what you can say what it is doing. Okay, well,
922
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:24.980
we can't wait for this final perfect state of the
923
00:54:25.019 --> 00:54:27.559
earthly power. We need to work with what we have.
924
00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:31.639
So we're coming down, we're taking how it is, what
925
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:35.820
we have, and trying from, again, still meaning, and trying
926
00:54:35.940 --> 00:54:39.699
to move it to something better, maybe even something more Christ-like.
927
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:42.139
They can say, well, with more love and care and
928
00:54:42.219 --> 00:54:45.150
empathy and all of this kind of Christian virtues.
929
00:54:45.510 --> 00:54:46.909
Yeah, but again.
930
00:54:46.969 --> 00:54:51.969
But in the end, Basically, the problem is while trying
931
00:54:52.010 --> 00:54:53.829
to subvert them, you yourself become subvert.
932
00:54:53.869 --> 00:54:54.309
Exactly.
933
00:54:55.110 --> 00:54:57.449
It just isn't going to work because, for one, you've
934
00:54:57.489 --> 00:55:01.940
already had a thousand years of a specific just insanely,
935
00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:06.530
you know, I mean, you've said for a thousand years
936
00:55:06.570 --> 00:55:08.769
that you have to believe in the Pope's temporal supremacy
937
00:55:08.789 --> 00:55:09.329
to be saved.
938
00:55:09.650 --> 00:55:09.769
Yeah.
939
00:55:10.289 --> 00:55:11.929
And now you're saying post-Vatican II.
940
00:55:11.949 --> 00:55:15.210
Luckily, people are literal, so consistency is not something which
941
00:55:15.469 --> 00:55:17.409
actually is in huge demand right now.
942
00:55:17.429 --> 00:55:19.610
Well, but at Vatican II, you're essentially saying, you know, okay, fine,
943
00:55:19.650 --> 00:55:23.780
the Reformation was right, religious liberty, which was already condemned
944
00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:27.260
heresy for centuries by the papacy. Now we're admitting, okay, fine,
945
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:30.440
you can have religious liberty, that's actually a virtue. I mean, multiple,
946
00:55:30.460 --> 00:55:35.510
I mean, Dignitatis Humanae, multiple Vatican II documents. are all
947
00:55:35.570 --> 00:55:38.570
about the dignity of the individual. And actually, John Paul II,
948
00:55:38.590 --> 00:55:40.630
who's another one of these, very close to the CIA
949
00:55:41.829 --> 00:55:44.929
pope openly, because he played a key role symbolically in
950
00:55:44.949 --> 00:55:50.070
the Cold War. You know, his whole ethos was humanism.
951
00:55:50.269 --> 00:55:50.510
Yes.
952
00:55:50.570 --> 00:55:52.050
But he called it Christian humanism.
953
00:55:52.090 --> 00:55:53.429
Christian humanism, yeah.
954
00:55:53.630 --> 00:55:55.840
But he thought, well, this will be the way to
955
00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:57.880
kind of speak to the modern world because the modern
956
00:55:57.889 --> 00:56:01.019
world worships man. And so we'll just use this focal
957
00:56:01.059 --> 00:56:03.260
point of man worship to kind of point them to
958
00:56:03.670 --> 00:56:06.739
Jesus as some sort of like, you know, Superman or whatever.
959
00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:07.960
Ideal man.
960
00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:08.519
Ideal man.
961
00:56:08.579 --> 00:56:14.619
Yeah. But again, what happens, though, is that the geopolitical
962
00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:19.239
stances that are admitted at Vatican II, they don't change.
963
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:22.360
They become essentially the pattern for all that the Vatican
964
00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:24.929
has done since Vatican II for the last 70 plus
965
00:56:24.949 --> 00:56:30.469
years or 70-ish years to where now you have just–
966
00:56:30.909 --> 00:56:35.599
a degrading from John Paul to, you know, Benedict was
967
00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:40.460
this sort of pseudo-trade period. He abdicates. Then we get
968
00:56:40.699 --> 00:56:44.460
just radical next level with Francis to the point where
969
00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:49.010
even very basic moral ideas are now beginning to evolve
970
00:56:49.190 --> 00:56:50.110
to where, well.
971
00:56:50.250 --> 00:56:55.530
Evolving is not bad, again, within... From the Christian orthodox perspective,
972
00:56:55.550 --> 00:56:57.630
it would be a bad statement. From a perspective of
973
00:56:57.670 --> 00:57:01.789
a power play, of this Again, esoteric, versely power play,
974
00:57:02.110 --> 00:57:02.550
it's all right.
975
00:57:02.650 --> 00:57:04.250
Well, but I was going to say, it's not just
976
00:57:04.289 --> 00:57:07.869
evolving of the theology. Now natural law can evolve.
977
00:57:08.030 --> 00:57:08.489
Of course, yeah.
978
00:57:08.750 --> 00:57:11.780
Because what was, for example, the death penalty for many,
979
00:57:11.800 --> 00:57:16.039
many centuries was considered part of natural justice in Roman theology.
980
00:57:16.739 --> 00:57:19.400
Now that is contrary to the gospel. And now the
981
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:23.219
papacy can even say, even natural law kind of has
982
00:57:23.260 --> 00:57:23.980
to change a bit.
983
00:57:24.360 --> 00:57:24.519
Okay.
984
00:57:24.539 --> 00:57:27.179
Because the death penalty is now unjust. But if our
985
00:57:27.260 --> 00:57:29.380
goal is, if the head point we are working for is,
986
00:57:30.190 --> 00:57:33.219
to take this top
seat at this table, final big
987
00:57:33.260 --> 00:57:34.059
table of the world.
988
00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:36.860
Well, that's just idolatry because your goal is not to
989
00:57:36.909 --> 00:57:39.090
be at the power, at the seat of the kings.
990
00:57:39.969 --> 00:57:41.289
That's not the goal of the church.
991
00:57:41.610 --> 00:57:41.989
I agree.
992
00:57:42.309 --> 00:57:44.449
All I'm saying is, Jay, I just want to be
993
00:57:44.469 --> 00:57:46.949
clear with our audience because I think this episode is
994
00:57:46.969 --> 00:57:49.679
slightly different from our previous one. So if we're judging
995
00:57:49.699 --> 00:57:52.800
the story by the same scale of the stories of
996
00:57:52.860 --> 00:57:56.340
our previous episodes, it all makes sense. But just simultaneously,
997
00:57:56.360 --> 00:57:58.420
as well as being orthodox, we cannot help.
998
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:01.909
Well, really, the only debate from this vantage point of
999
00:58:01.929 --> 00:58:06.420
the Vatican side of it is, are we completely subverted
1000
00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:09.800
or are we influenced by other powers? And I think
1001
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:14.000
that what you've seen with Francis to Leo is basically
1002
00:58:14.019 --> 00:58:18.880
a little bit of divergence on, you know, Ukraine war
1003
00:58:19.179 --> 00:58:20.860
or Middle Eastern war.
1004
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:22.000
I don't see it as a divergence.
1005
00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:25.280
Well, no, I'm saying it diverges in the sense of criticisms.
1006
00:58:25.940 --> 00:58:28.699
But other than that, even if you look into this story, like,
1007
00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:30.500
you know, it's absolutely consistent. If you look in the
1008
00:58:30.579 --> 00:58:33.760
Ukraine war, come on, Ukraine war wouldn't be possible without.
1009
00:58:36.539 --> 00:58:39.119
The uniates helped facilitate that. But what I'm saying is
1010
00:58:39.400 --> 00:58:43.400
the papacy in terms of its open stances, which might
1011
00:58:43.840 --> 00:58:46.659
be totally different from what they actually do, which is
1012
00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:51.719
just classic bureaucratic politics. But I'm saying you have public
1013
00:58:51.900 --> 00:58:56.400
criticism of Trump's war on Iran, but that's about it.
1014
00:58:57.119 --> 00:58:59.880
But that's important because it fits well.
1015
00:58:59.940 --> 00:59:00.420
Okay, fine.
1016
00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:05.070
I can absolutely say because the Trump policy is... Again, remember,
1017
00:59:05.090 --> 00:59:08.480
he's influenced by... Is there a couple other tracks?
1018
00:59:08.500 --> 00:59:08.739
I know.
1019
00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:11.360
He's influenced by the Zionists. But what I'm saying is
1020
00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:17.539
that the Vatican stance isn't even criticism of the Trump
1021
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:22.809
moves from some sort of traditional moral principles. It's criticism
1022
00:59:22.949 --> 00:59:25.070
from a modern sort of leftist position.
1023
00:59:25.130 --> 00:59:28.590
It's exactly because... I would say the closest alliance since
1024
00:59:28.630 --> 00:59:31.570
Vatican II actually was between... You can say that Fabians
1025
00:59:31.659 --> 00:59:34.820
and Vatican became really just close together. They realized they
1026
00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:38.739
can achieve way more by collaborating. Plus, add to this
1027
00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:41.179
the whole Council for Inclusive Capitalism. Yep.
1028
00:59:41.860 --> 00:59:45.480
Fabian. Fabian. Rothschild. Yes. So, and.
1029
00:59:45.940 --> 00:59:49.500
I mean, Trump himself is many things, but he's really anti-Fabian.
1030
00:59:49.820 --> 00:59:52.199
He has personal antipathy. So it makes this kind of
1031
00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:56.829
personal level of personal tactical criticism makes total sense. But strategically,
1032
00:59:56.869 --> 00:59:59.610
for example, if we're looking into conflict, like, again, the
1033
00:59:59.650 --> 01:00:06.210
whole story of, like, CIA, like, basically using Constantinople to
1034
01:00:06.250 --> 01:00:09.780
split Ukraine charge, who is the final benefit?
1035
01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:11.099
Well, ultimately, Vatican.
1036
01:00:11.139 --> 01:00:13.900
If you look, for example, in Belarus, through this kind
1037
01:00:13.940 --> 01:00:18.090
of subtle process, it's orthodox. countries still, but the number
1038
01:00:18.130 --> 01:00:20.409
of Catholics in it increased over the course of the
1039
01:00:20.449 --> 01:00:22.090
last 330 years.
1040
01:00:22.989 --> 01:00:25.789
The Jesuits did the same thing to Russia. The Jesuits
1041
01:00:25.809 --> 01:00:28.380
were constantly trying to missionize back to.
1042
01:00:28.409 --> 01:00:30.679
And the same process is happening, and that's why you
1043
01:00:30.739 --> 01:00:32.960
see the missionaries. So, like, it's still working. And it's
1044
01:00:32.980 --> 01:00:35.800
just the language is to advocate for peace. And to
1045
01:00:35.860 --> 01:00:37.940
advocate for peace, we all know the power groups who
1046
01:00:38.409 --> 01:00:41.559
openly advocate for peace. The argument for peace fits well
1047
01:00:41.579 --> 01:00:41.860
with the.
1048
01:00:41.820 --> 01:00:47.079
Whole world government. But the craziest example of this is the,
1049
01:00:47.099 --> 01:00:50.820
you know, from Francis to Leo, there's been a consistent
1050
01:00:50.860 --> 01:00:55.929
stance that Europe needs to accept all of the Muslim migrants.
1051
01:00:56.309 --> 01:00:58.969
And they have to. That's the Christian position, which is
1052
01:00:58.989 --> 01:01:04.789
so crazy with the crusade attitude of the papacy calling crusades.
1053
01:01:05.250 --> 01:01:07.360
Because we've been limiting ourselves. And that's what I think
1054
01:01:07.389 --> 01:01:11.110
you're it's really important to understand that this ecumenism is
1055
01:01:11.150 --> 01:01:13.869
not theological. And that's why when you criticize it,
like
1056
01:01:14.050 --> 01:01:17.070
obviously it's theological, it cannot not be theological, but the motivation,
1057
01:01:17.130 --> 01:01:21.000
the motivations are not, is geopolitical because I, like I'm
1058
01:01:21.019 --> 01:01:23.900
responsible for everybody. Then of course we need to take
1059
01:01:23.940 --> 01:01:24.239
them in.
1060
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:28.239
So like basically, that's why the Pope is basically saying, well,
1061
01:01:28.300 --> 01:01:32.599
since I am the, steward of all the world religions. Yeah,
1062
01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:34.489
maybe the Catholics are a little closer to me, but
1063
01:01:34.550 --> 01:01:37.289
I'm also the father to these Muslims because you can
1064
01:01:37.309 --> 01:01:39.670
go back to John Paul II. He was already beginning
1065
01:01:39.769 --> 01:01:42.929
to say things famously, like when I think it was
1066
01:01:42.969 --> 01:01:44.989
around 2001 or two, he went to Jordan and he
1067
01:01:45.030 --> 01:01:48.489
gave a sermon to the Muslims and said, may St.
1068
01:01:48.530 --> 01:01:53.289
John the Baptist protect Islam, not Islam. may St. John
1069
01:01:53.309 --> 01:01:58.320
the Baptist protect the Jordanian people, but Islam, the religion.
1070
01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:01.699
This is very important. And there's other homilies he gave
1071
01:02:02.179 --> 01:02:05.360
in Jordan as well, and other ones to other Muslim groups,
1072
01:02:05.420 --> 01:02:08.280
basically affirming this has never been done before.
1073
01:02:09.030 --> 01:02:09.289
Okay.
1074
01:02:09.489 --> 01:02:11.650
So it's very important, the language that's used. It's not
1075
01:02:11.710 --> 01:02:12.829
just simply saying.
1076
01:02:12.570 --> 01:02:15.250
That I want, you know, the saints to pray for
1077
01:02:15.269 --> 01:02:16.289
the people.
1078
01:02:16.449 --> 01:02:20.059
It's the false religion that, that is beginning to be
1079
01:02:20.119 --> 01:02:24.849
now seen as really just a lower gradation of Christianity.
1080
01:02:25.809 --> 01:02:28.449
And so they're part of our group. And if we
1081
01:02:28.469 --> 01:02:31.130
just sort of do this sort of dialogical process of
1082
01:02:31.210 --> 01:02:34.170
accepting everybody, we'll all kind of eventually arrive at the
1083
01:02:34.190 --> 01:02:35.769
same papal conclusion. That's the point.
1084
01:02:35.969 --> 01:02:39.210
Yeah. And so it's this weird, philosophically speaking, it's this
1085
01:02:39.269 --> 01:02:42.550
weird part of dilution. There is a temptation and dilution because,
1086
01:02:42.590 --> 01:02:44.409
I mean, even if you look, let's say, in any
1087
01:02:44.449 --> 01:02:47.360
form of liquid, when it's concentrated, it's a very small amount.
1088
01:02:47.420 --> 01:02:50.659
But if you dilute it you can really increase the
1089
01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:55.570
volume and this is very commonsensically geopolitical move which can
1090
01:02:55.730 --> 01:02:58.750
also have a further connection from the potential like how
1091
01:02:58.769 --> 01:03:00.869
to take place at this big table and how actually
1092
01:03:00.889 --> 01:03:04.269
to run it will become indispensable well with all you
1093
01:03:04.329 --> 01:03:06.989
with all of your craziest ideas how will you shepherd
1094
01:03:07.010 --> 01:03:09.630
people they will suspect you of evil intent they will
1095
01:03:09.650 --> 01:03:12.760
suspect you of basically there is all this crazy lunatics
1096
01:03:13.380 --> 01:03:16.519
accusing you and I'm a good shepherd.
1097
01:03:16.460 --> 01:03:17.719
And through me.
1098
01:03:19.800 --> 01:03:22.559
I mean, I can run and I can let you
1099
01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:25.780
do your things. Basically, it's a really strong move from.
1100
01:03:25.619 --> 01:03:26.820
This low-level play.
1101
01:03:26.860 --> 01:03:30.639
I'm not speaking from Morse's perspective, but from our series' perspective.
1102
01:03:31.550 --> 01:03:36.349
It's a really good play to, after the centuries of retreating,
1103
01:03:37.449 --> 01:03:40.070
it's actually, you know what, throughout our conversation, this Vatican
1104
01:03:40.090 --> 01:03:43.590
tool to be starting to make way more sense, actually.
1105
01:03:43.940 --> 01:03:46.719
It's evil genius, but it's kind of genius move to
1106
01:03:47.139 --> 01:03:50.119
at least worth betting upon to get back at the
1107
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:55.619
table with this golden card or like golden, yeah, whatever
1108
01:03:55.659 --> 01:03:57.820
you call in the market economy. But so that's why
1109
01:03:57.860 --> 01:04:00.530
my voice is important. And that's why, for example, if
1110
01:04:00.550 --> 01:04:03.610
you look into recent statement on AI, it's kind of
1111
01:04:03.630 --> 01:04:07.369
the same principle, the recent encyclical. It says many important
1112
01:04:07.449 --> 01:04:10.769
right word, but what is the true geopolitical consequences? Well,
1113
01:04:11.469 --> 01:04:15.900
our voice, our representatives must be among the one who
1114
01:04:15.980 --> 01:04:19.170
will write the ethics for AI. So we need to
1115
01:04:19.210 --> 01:04:21.250
be the one who will do it. It's taking the
1116
01:04:21.269 --> 01:04:23.789
same thing. So we are not fighting the Silicon Valley.
1117
01:04:24.090 --> 01:04:27.280
We're not fighting the technocrats. We want to infiltrate it.
1118
01:04:27.550 --> 01:04:30.699
We want to, and then guide it. Infiltrating and guiding.
1119
01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:33.519
I think that's the biggest shift the Vatican made after
1120
01:04:33.820 --> 01:04:37.239
the hard position just ran out of resources.
1121
01:04:37.579 --> 01:04:40.260
Yeah, and I think you can see a parallel with
1122
01:04:40.300 --> 01:04:43.329
something that many Catholics and Catholic historians have pointed out
1123
01:04:43.389 --> 01:04:47.340
in America, which was You know, in American politics in
1124
01:04:47.380 --> 01:04:50.949
the 20th century, it was dominated by
WASP power and
1125
01:04:51.010 --> 01:04:54.250
WASP interests. And then you have the rise of the Kennedys.
1126
01:04:54.429 --> 01:04:58.610
And the idea is the Kennedys kind of were masters
1127
01:04:58.670 --> 01:05:02.250
at this approach of, I'm going to publicly as a
1128
01:05:02.309 --> 01:05:06.510
politician be fully secular in my approach. I'll be pro-abortion.
1129
01:05:06.530 --> 01:05:08.570
I'll be pro-whatever that doesn't line with... But I'm going
1130
01:05:08.590 --> 01:05:09.730
to privately be a Catholic.
1131
01:05:09.909 --> 01:05:10.590
Now, you.
1132
01:05:11.070 --> 01:05:13.230
In Catholic theology, you can't do that.
1133
01:05:13.510 --> 01:05:13.730
But.
1134
01:05:14.309 --> 01:05:18.139
The argument was, and this was, I think, the Kennedy stance,
1135
01:05:18.360 --> 01:05:20.659
and later Catholics said this, we want a seat at
1136
01:05:20.699 --> 01:05:23.659
the table. We're not at the table. Catholics are not
1137
01:05:23.739 --> 01:05:26.300
seen as part of the American political process. And if
1138
01:05:26.340 --> 01:05:28.889
you want a seat at the table, you've got to compromise.
1139
01:05:29.389 --> 01:05:29.570
Yes.
1140
01:05:30.230 --> 01:05:32.090
At the end, it will be worth it. At the end,
1141
01:05:32.150 --> 01:05:34.510
we will bring them back to Christ, even as I
1142
01:05:34.530 --> 01:05:37.150
can say. At the end, they might not understand him.
1143
01:05:37.610 --> 01:05:39.969
as a Christ is a name, but they will understand,
1144
01:05:40.210 --> 01:05:42.320
they will basically one way or the other will end
1145
01:05:42.380 --> 01:05:44.539
up being in a communion. And like, so the spiritual
1146
01:05:44.559 --> 01:05:47.300
strength is there. And from the perspective of other groups,
1147
01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:51.219
I mean, that's actually a very strong position of Vatican
1148
01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:55.300
because they themselves keep like, often like, I mean, history matters, sorry.
1149
01:05:55.619 --> 01:05:58.110
Vatican has hundreds of years of experience, as I said,
1150
01:05:58.150 --> 01:06:03.409
hundreds of years of connections, indispensable, still moral capital and reputation,
1151
01:06:03.590 --> 01:06:07.730
which is very important. Vatican as a peace representative, for example,
1152
01:06:08.010 --> 01:06:10.699
sounds way better as a, sorry, CIA director as a
1153
01:06:10.719 --> 01:06:15.380
peace representative, just even from PR perspective. And then you
1154
01:06:15.420 --> 01:06:16.599
connect it and then you use it.
1155
01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:22.519
Well, even propaganda itself, the whole idea of modernity, you know,
1156
01:06:22.539 --> 01:06:24.619
we think of Bernays and these people, but actually it
1157
01:06:24.659 --> 01:06:28.980
was the Vatican that had pioneered this many centuries earlier
1158
01:06:29.039 --> 01:06:31.840
with the Holy Office of Propaganda, right? The Holy Office
1159
01:06:31.860 --> 01:06:35.510
of the Inquisition essentially was a propaganda office. So, And
1160
01:06:35.670 --> 01:06:37.849
you're right to go back to Jesuits as sort of
1161
01:06:38.300 --> 01:06:41.579
long-term almost intelligence operatives, you could say. The Vatican is
1162
01:06:41.599 --> 01:06:47.219
the oldest intelligence agency in the world. But as we said,
1163
01:06:47.539 --> 01:06:49.820
even into the 20th century, they had begun to lose
1164
01:06:49.860 --> 01:06:51.989
a lot of that temporal power. So I think you're
1165
01:06:52.050 --> 01:06:55.159
right to say that the motivations are just to simply
1166
01:06:55.199 --> 01:06:56.960
get back to having a seat at the table. And
1167
01:06:56.980 --> 01:06:57.980
if that requires us.
1168
01:06:58.539 --> 01:07:01.340
Temporarily, for now, even you can say, like you can
1169
01:07:01.380 --> 01:07:03.400
even say, because we still, that's why this image, like
1170
01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:05.940
you can, you're still keeping it. It's still in your hands.
1171
01:07:05.980 --> 01:07:08.940
You're still in your heart, absolutely loyal. And Christ will
1172
01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:10.900
understand you when you.
1173
01:07:10.940 --> 01:07:12.739
Well, maybe for some of them, I don't think for
1174
01:07:12.760 --> 01:07:13.599
the people of the Vatican.
1175
01:07:13.719 --> 01:07:17.199
No, I honestly think, I mean, it makes way more sense,
1176
01:07:17.409 --> 01:07:19.449
this logic behind it. It's hard to be such a
1177
01:07:19.469 --> 01:07:23.230
hypocrite physically, so you need to find a good explanation, uh,
1178
01:07:24.059 --> 01:07:26.969
within yourself so I think it's currently this is the
1179
01:07:27.090 --> 01:07:29.969
age but actually look at what this age is giving
1180
01:07:30.070 --> 01:07:33.309
us we can improve our missionary effort tremendously we can
1181
01:07:33.349 --> 01:07:36.670
actually if you include everyone like that's kind of everyone
1182
01:07:36.730 --> 01:07:39.170
is our mission and like we're simultaneously doing the job
1183
01:07:39.210 --> 01:07:41.090
so and then who knows what will come in a
1184
01:07:41.150 --> 01:07:44.139
hundred years and then okay AI comes okay we will
1185
01:07:44.460 --> 01:07:47.199
imprint it with certain spirits let's say and we.
1186
01:07:47.159 --> 01:07:49.880
Will Yeah, we already do. I mean, the Catholics are
1187
01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:54.679
already creating Catholic AIs that, you know, people are even
1188
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:58.340
trying to confess to them, which is absurd. But I mean,
1189
01:07:58.699 --> 01:08:01.219
these ideas are already kind of being put out there.
1190
01:08:01.929 --> 01:08:03.889
Not that the Vatican has totally approved of that, just
1191
01:08:03.929 --> 01:08:06.389
saying that it's begun to be experimented with in the
1192
01:08:06.429 --> 01:08:10.369
Protestant and the Catholic world. But yeah, I think that,
1193
01:08:10.409 --> 01:08:15.170
you know, again, this is essentially what
John XXIII meant
1194
01:08:15.289 --> 01:08:19.479
when he talked about aggiornamento. And he said that Vatican
1195
01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:21.199
II would be the opening up of the doors of
1196
01:08:21.220 --> 01:08:23.640
the church to the world. Because we're going to have
1197
01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:27.199
to do that. We can't be this bastion medieval institution
1198
01:08:27.220 --> 01:08:30.279
that's a fortress. His idea was we have to open
1199
01:08:30.340 --> 01:08:32.699
up to the world and that's how we'll convert the world.
1200
01:08:33.090 --> 01:08:36.029
So that was what at least the best charitable reading
1201
01:08:36.050 --> 01:08:38.529
of Vatican II was supposed to be. What I'm saying
1202
01:08:38.590 --> 01:08:41.789
is that you can see in the background with not
1203
01:08:41.850 --> 01:08:45.770
conspiracy books, but with espionage history, with intelligence history, with
1204
01:08:46.310 --> 01:08:50.310
big geopolitical power and their books and their history, them saying,
1205
01:08:50.550 --> 01:08:54.829
we will turn this organization into an engine of American
1206
01:08:54.869 --> 01:08:56.890
soft power. That is what happened.
1207
01:08:56.909 --> 01:08:59.970
I'd say globalist more than American.
1208
01:09:00.039 --> 01:09:00.220
Again.
1209
01:09:00.260 --> 01:09:02.220
You know what I'm saying? No, at the time of
1210
01:09:02.239 --> 01:09:07.039
the Cold War, the argument was, the reason the OSS
1211
01:09:07.180 --> 01:09:10.159
and CIA wanted the Vatican was, if we can turn
1212
01:09:10.180 --> 01:09:14.460
this engine to a tool of American soft power, we'll
1213
01:09:14.479 --> 01:09:15.060
win the Cold War.
1214
01:09:15.640 --> 01:09:15.859
Okay.
1215
01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:20.140
And they were ultimately successful utilizing John Paul II.
1216
01:09:20.199 --> 01:09:20.699
Exactly.
1217
01:09:21.619 --> 01:09:25.000
But that now puts, if you're the Vatican, now you're
1218
01:09:25.060 --> 01:09:27.779
kind of, you've got new masters, you see. And so
1219
01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:30.939
now you have to, and maybe you're right, maybe the
1220
01:09:30.979 --> 01:09:32.930
thought is, well, we'll play the long game and eventually
1221
01:09:32.939 --> 01:09:34.189
we'll outlast the American.
1222
01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:37.289
I definitely think it's a long game. I definitely, tactically,
1223
01:09:37.310 --> 01:09:39.550
it would be this particular American group. But let's say
1224
01:09:39.569 --> 01:09:41.189
this American group is splitting in itself.
1225
01:09:41.270 --> 01:09:42.109
Now in itself, it's.
1226
01:09:43.149 --> 01:09:48.649
Fabians against Atlantuses through technocrats against Zionists, Zionists.
1227
01:09:48.310 --> 01:09:49.760
Against all and all of these things.
1228
01:09:49.819 --> 01:09:52.520
And now we are getting this nicely, quietly sit at
1229
01:09:52.560 --> 01:09:55.539
the table and like, you know, actually slowly moving.
1230
01:09:55.560 --> 01:09:58.520
Well, the problem is that I don't think the technocrats, well,
1231
01:09:58.539 --> 01:10:00.350
excuse me, I think that in terms of the Vatican,
1232
01:10:00.359 --> 01:10:02.149
I actually think that who will win out with the
1233
01:10:02.189 --> 01:10:03.229
Vatican will be the Zionists.
1234
01:10:04.229 --> 01:10:05.409
Go on. I'm curious.
1235
01:10:05.430 --> 01:10:08.550
Well, one of the elements that we overlook, and this
1236
01:10:08.569 --> 01:10:12.220
is detailed in the Wim Hof book, was The origins
1237
01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:19.380
of ecumenism are Rockefeller power, WASP power, and money and banking,
1238
01:10:19.500 --> 01:10:25.000
and also a Jewish banking element too. And some of
1239
01:10:25.020 --> 01:10:29.489
the first ecumenist meetings ever were chaired by rabbis.
1240
01:10:29.810 --> 01:10:30.130
It was a.
1241
01:10:30.130 --> 01:10:34.789
Rabbinical move because if you go back to Moses Hess
1242
01:10:35.050 --> 01:10:36.489
and he wrote Roman Jerusalem.
1243
01:10:36.510 --> 01:10:36.909
Mm-hmm.
1244
01:10:37.380 --> 01:10:39.279
In the 1860s, and this is one of the first
1245
01:10:39.340 --> 01:10:44.359
works to ever mention Jewish Zionism. So way before 1917,
1246
01:10:44.359 --> 01:10:47.039
you have Roman Jerusalem, Moses Hess, who is the father
1247
01:10:47.060 --> 01:10:53.609
of utopian socialism. He says, through dialogical Hegelian and essentially
1248
01:10:53.710 --> 01:10:58.989
Spinoza pantheistic process, so understand that his philosophical influences are
1249
01:10:59.029 --> 01:11:01.829
Hegel and Spinoza. So he sees history as sort of
1250
01:11:01.970 --> 01:11:07.149
dialectical process culminating not in the Vatican or in America,
1251
01:11:07.210 --> 01:11:10.770
but in Jerusalem as the sort of focal point of
1252
01:11:10.949 --> 01:11:16.439
global socialism. He says that what we'll do also is
1253
01:11:17.760 --> 01:11:21.300
essentially use the Masonic lodges to bring about a Judaizing
1254
01:11:21.340 --> 01:11:24.500
of the nations. And although I don't know that he
1255
01:11:24.539 --> 01:11:27.579
specifically had an idea of Judaizing the Vatican, but what
1256
01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:30.560
happens at Vatican II is also a very strong Jewish
1257
01:11:30.619 --> 01:11:33.880
influence with, for example, writers who would write at the
1258
01:11:34.750 --> 01:11:38.029
Look Magazine, which is a famous Jewish magazine. After Vatican II,
1259
01:11:38.149 --> 01:11:40.529
they actually wrote in Look Magazine bragging that they had
1260
01:11:40.569 --> 01:11:43.109
won Vatican II because not only did they get the
1261
01:11:43.130 --> 01:11:46.890
statement in Nostra Aetate, hold on, where the Jews, Christians,
1262
01:11:46.930 --> 01:11:49.750
and Muslims all worship the same God, they also succeeded
1263
01:11:49.890 --> 01:11:53.470
in eventually getting the Roman Latin Mass and then the
1264
01:11:53.510 --> 01:11:56.430
Novus Ordo to remove the Good Friday prayers
talking about
1265
01:11:56.850 --> 01:12:00.109
how the Jews need to be converted and are perfidious
1266
01:12:00.270 --> 01:12:03.140
was the terminology that was used. So that's all removed.
1267
01:12:03.180 --> 01:12:06.640
That's a significant change. And then what happens is the
1268
01:12:06.760 --> 01:12:10.460
Vatican begins to gradually introduce ideas that the Jews are
1269
01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:14.300
still in a covenant with God. And the United States
1270
01:12:14.340 --> 01:12:16.920
Conference of Catholic Bishops put out a document, I want
1271
01:12:16.939 --> 01:12:19.859
to say in 2002 or 2003, and it dealt with
1272
01:12:20.520 --> 01:12:23.890
not converting Jews. Do not proselytize Jews. They still have
1273
01:12:23.899 --> 01:12:27.770
a relationship with God. Now, this is a huge move away, again,
1274
01:12:27.850 --> 01:12:31.729
from the Vatican's traditional stance here. And so- The reason
1275
01:12:31.770 --> 01:12:36.840
I'm saying that it's a Judaizing is that you're also
1276
01:12:36.939 --> 01:12:40.899
getting recently the Vatican making very strong statements that to
1277
01:12:40.939 --> 01:12:45.810
criticize Judaism is anti-Semitism. Now, they might not be openly
1278
01:12:45.869 --> 01:12:49.529
pro-Zionist per se, but they're still at this point focusing
1279
01:12:49.649 --> 01:12:53.689
on the religion of Judaism, rabbinic Judaism. But I think
1280
01:12:53.729 --> 01:12:56.989
that we're not very far away from the papacy moving
1281
01:12:57.090 --> 01:13:01.810
even further towards Judaism. If they've already given up the proselytizing,
1282
01:13:02.710 --> 01:13:06.109
we're only a few decades, maybe a decade away from
1283
01:13:06.170 --> 01:13:10.970
essentially acceptance of Judaism as perhaps the real.
1284
01:13:11.310 --> 01:13:12.130
The real salvation.
1285
01:13:13.470 --> 01:13:15.800
Well, actually, I don't know.
1286
01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:18.960
It's a perfect segue, actually, because one of the next
1287
01:13:19.000 --> 01:13:21.840
tribes we're going to talk about are Zionists and Judaism.
1288
01:13:22.039 --> 01:13:25.239
And You can always start talking about it. You devote
1289
01:13:25.279 --> 01:13:28.600
hundreds of hours talking about this topic. There are lots
1290
01:13:28.640 --> 01:13:31.199
of beautiful books written about it, which we will put
1291
01:13:31.260 --> 01:13:35.229
into the description for those who want to go further.
1292
01:13:35.310 --> 01:13:38.470
But essentially, I think the argument is covered like this.
1293
01:13:38.569 --> 01:13:41.649
What can be started as a charitable shepherd in contention
1294
01:13:41.789 --> 01:13:46.979
of worldly affairs now ended up into... this, yes, I
1295
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:49.859
would still argue pretty strong position among all of the
1296
01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:53.319
other tribes we've been talking about, but from Christian perspective,
1297
01:13:54.260 --> 01:13:58.260
in the long run, it's making you indistinguishable.
1298
01:13:58.420 --> 01:14:01.930
One last point. This key document that really was so
1299
01:14:01.979 --> 01:14:05.489
revolutionary called Nostra Aetate, which is the Roman Catholic Church's
1300
01:14:05.529 --> 01:14:08.770
relationship to the world religions. This was actually drafted by
1301
01:14:08.789 --> 01:14:14.510
a Jewish guy who left the priesthood Because he was
1302
01:14:14.550 --> 01:14:18.750
a homosexual unbeliever now. But he had achieved what his
1303
01:14:18.789 --> 01:14:22.130
goal was, which was to essentially rewrite the Catholic theology
1304
01:14:23.170 --> 01:14:25.750
of the Vatican's relationship to Islam and Judaism.
1305
01:14:26.140 --> 01:14:26.479
Perfect.
1306
01:14:27.060 --> 01:14:29.199
And that's the price you kind of ended up having
1307
01:14:29.239 --> 01:14:29.579
to pay.
1308
01:14:29.899 --> 01:14:31.060
Gregory Baum is his name.
1309
01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:31.539
Gregory Baum.
1310
01:14:32.180 --> 01:14:33.920
So that's kind of a perfect example of the price
1311
01:14:33.939 --> 01:14:36.340
you had to pay in this process. However, now in 2026,
1312
01:14:36.319 --> 01:14:41.979
don't discount. absolutely big power player and I actually expect
1313
01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:44.960
to see way more of its influence on a global
1314
01:14:45.020 --> 01:14:48.840
arena in the coming years with other let's say forces
1315
01:14:48.899 --> 01:14:53.159
kind of a little bit attacking too much each other
1316
01:14:53.340 --> 01:14:55.729
and kind of weakening each other and now Vatican actually
1317
01:14:55.770 --> 01:14:59.069
might have a pretty strong several decades at least on
1318
01:14:59.090 --> 01:15:02.010
the surface but maybe there is a surface behind the
1319
01:15:02.029 --> 01:15:04.090
surface and that's what I guess we're going to talk
1320
01:15:04.130 --> 01:15:06.390
next see you next week.
1321
01:15:08.359 --> 01:15:09.270
That's the weirdest part.
1322
01:15:09.409 --> 01:15:14.720
Mass level secular Zionism becomes this weird understanding. Well, there
1323
01:15:14.739 --> 01:15:16.699
is no God, but we're kind of chosen by him.
1324
01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:18.770
Yeah, right. Exactly.
1325
01:15:19.130 --> 01:15:20.789
Why that land? Well, just because.