النص الكامل لحلقة Sperm Epigenetics with Kristin Brogaard, Sperm QT

And um, what we did was understand the epigenetics of sperm. 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:54.839 So during spermatogenesis, when the sperm is developing in the testicle, it needs all the proper genes turned on and off in order for the sperm to function properly. 00:06:55.079 --> 00:07:16.759 It can have the right count, the right, you know, stable DNA fragmentation, it could have the right motility and morphology, but there could be genes that weren't expressed properly that didn't allow for proper cell signaling, or the proper channels on the sperm head, or some of the important proteins that are in the sperm head necessary for fertilization. 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:32.040 And so what was discovered over multiple years of research with path fertility was there is a set of over 1200 genes that need to be very properly regulated during spermatogenesis, so when the sperm's in the testicle. 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:45.160 And what sperm QT does is understand how many of those genes are properly regulated, and is it, you know, do you accumulate too much dysregulation where your sperm can't function properly? 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:45.959 Interesting. 00:07:46.120 --> 00:08:01.000 So it is in that 72-day window, if you will, of spermatogenesis that you're able to determine with the sperm QT testing and analysis whether or not the that sperm is being adversely affected by its environment. 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:02.120 And that's exactly right. 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:07.240 Environment in the testicles is reflective of the environment in the entire body itself. 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:08.839 That's exactly right. 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:32.680 And what was beautiful is when we when we started this company, we really came in on the shoulders of these academic giants that had already established that lifestyle and exposures are affecting the DNA methylation and the epigenetics in the testicle and are impacting, you know, all these processes during fertility treatments and uh embryo development. 00:08:32.839 --> 00:08:41.160 Um, so it was very well known, and we're seeing the same thing with sperm QT that you can have abnormal gene expression in the testicle. 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:52.600 And if you modify your lifestyle and environment within that day, you know, if you test three months later with all new sperm, you actually can improve your sperm quality, which is which is spectacular. 00:08:53.160 --> 00:09:15.799 I mean, as a doctor of Chinese medicine practicing, you know, ancient holistic um uh medicine, of course, I want to just sing the hallelujah chorus to this because it is what we have been saying for you know thousands of years, but more recently in the last 50 years or so, and it's always been a little bit poo-pooed, if you will, where, well, you know, don't worry about it because we can just take it into the lab. 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:31.639 And this is no disrespect to uh, you know, an IVF process, but that sperm, whether it is going to be trying to conceive naturally or through IUI or through IVF, is only going to be as healthy as the person generating the sperm. 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:42.920 And I love the that the the sort of recognition and the proof, the evidence that making fundamental changes can make fundamental improvements. 00:09:43.079 --> 00:09:46.920 So this isn't a it's not a a life sentence, if you will. 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:48.360 It is not a theta complete. 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:55.240 If you've got a bad result, then you know your your chances of cons conceiving naturally are are over. 00:09:55.639 --> 00:09:57.799 Yeah, that's that's absolutely it. 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:08.039 Um, and we it we're seeing it anecdotally in these men making changes, and then previous research is showing that type of impact on sperm DNA methylation overall. 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:14.840 I mean, just the effects of smoking and THC at the research on DNA methylation in sperm is pretty shocking. 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:29.799 So, so so for the people listening out there and and and uh or viewing, um, most often it's it's the female partner uh who wants to refer, you know, g give updates to the male partner if there's a question. 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:34.679 How how would this person then say, okay, how do I how do I assess? 00:10:34.759 --> 00:10:40.519 How you know, is is it also a semen analysis, just a specified semen analysis? 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:41.639 What's the process? 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:43.080 Yeah, absolutely. 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:53.799 Um, I'm a I'm a big advocate of kind of getting the full picture early on because I think it saves time and emotional energy if you understand the full picture. 00:10:54.039 --> 00:11:02.840 Um, so when you are trying thinking of conceiving, trying to conceive or having issues, really recommend a full workup on the male side. 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:07.559 And what that really now contains is semen analysis is important. 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:10.600 You need to know if there's a sperm there, there's important components. 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:12.440 DNA fragmentation is important. 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:28.919 That's been highly associated with recurrent miscarriage, um, and then sperm QT for understanding the likelihood of more of like the low invasive, low-tech procedures like interuterine insemination or timed intercourse. 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:40.679 So combining all of those together will really provide providers and prospective parents more information on how to move forward in their journey. 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:53.559 Um, at Pathfertility, uh, you can go to pathfertility.com and you can order a full package of all of that together or individually to try to understand each piece. 00:11:53.639 --> 00:12:05.720 So some people might already have a semen analysis, but you really do need to start to get additional information like your ability for you know IUI prediction and time to intercourse prediction with a sperm QT. 00:12:06.519

--> 00:12:23.480 And and as you know, sperm health is ref reflective of you know whole health and longevity, I'm going to be an advocate for even if you're not saying go time is now or in the near future, getting an assessment so that you know how you know what does it look like now? 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:24.919 And then it's a baseline. 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:33.879 And then you can when if if if you're in your if you're just out of college and you're like, okay, how how has my lifestyle affected my sperm health today? 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:44.360 And then if I want to, you know, plan to have a child in five years, you know, you can start sort of make some predictive moves based upon what you see today. 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:48.600 Oh, I just love the way you think, and I'm a total advocate for that. 00:12:48.759 --> 00:13:02.840 Um, great research has come out of Stanford, out of Mike Eisenberg's lab, showing that sperm quality is a predictor of longevity, of how, you know, how long you live and the association with chronic diseases and cancers. 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:09.399 And if the more the earlier we can get that information to men, the better. 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:14.679 Because if there's a fertility issue, it's probably indicative of something larger going on. 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:15.480 Exactly. 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:20.360 Yes, I I I love that, and what a great message um to give. 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:21.559 Yeah, absolutely. 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:34.600 I mean, we we we want we want health, healthy babies, of course, but we want healthy parents to be able to live a long and healthy life to grow these these babies into you know productive members of our of society and legends of the future. 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:41.960 Um, you mentioned that sperm qt, path fertility, offers uh offers the the entire bundle. 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:59.879 So somebody can get from from soup to nuts, if you will, pun intended, the the semen analysis, including DNA fragmentation and including sperm QT, or if you've recently had a semen analysis, you don't necessarily have to repeat, although it depends upon how long ago you had it, I suppose. 00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:13.559 You don't want if you've got one that's a year old, it's probably time to get another one so that you can get current data because you don't want to be comparing today's sperm QT or DNA fragmentation with two years ago, you know, uh semen analysis. 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:14.759 Yep, that's exactly right. 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:15.559 It's recommended. 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:21.000 And the notes will be in the in the show notes, we'll have links to path fertility. 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:33.080 Um and I encourage everybody to go over and take a look because you'll see some examples of you know what reports look like, just how easily you can get your information and then and then how easily you can treat it. 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:45.879 So if there's a treatment, for instance, if

someone comes back with you know clearly a methylation problem, what would that look like in a report and what might that might what might that look like in their day-to-day life? 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:47.399 Yeah, great question. 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:53.960 So um the the process you wouldn't I'll walk through the process of the of um what this looks like. 00:14:54.200 --> 00:15:05.399 When you order the package, you receive a collection kit at home, and um it's just one collection for all the tests, so you don't have to do three separate collections if you get the full bundle. 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:15.879 That sample is uh sent with prepaid shipping to the laboratory for analysis of you know, semen analysis, DNA frag, and epigenetic analysis and sequencing. 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:16.279 Okay. 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:29.799 Um, when the report comes out, you will receive kind of a standard typical semen analysis report as well as DNA fragmentation, letting you know how many single or double stranded breaks are associated in that semen sample. 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:36.759 On the sperm QT side, which is really the really new, and a lot of patients have not seen this, is they're provided a result. 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:57.639 They are provided an abnormal or normal result, meaning abnormal is that your semen sample, your sperm sample, has higher dysregulation than what's considered normal at the population level, and your likelihood of success for IUI and timed intercourse is lower than what a normal result. 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:00.200 So it's not a range per se, it's a yes-no. 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:14.120 It's a yes-no, but what we what we do provide um now that there's been multiple clinical studies on this, we can provide patients with individualized likelihood of IUI and timed intercourse success. 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:22.600 So they'll see where their result is on a curve and understand am I at a 5% per try IUI success? 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:24.039 Am I at a 15%? 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:27.879 And understand kind of where they sit in that population. 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:50.840 Um, and once you have that, you can work with your under understanding what your you know options are and working with your providers to understand what the next steps, either lifestyle modifications, um, if you have the if you have time to really work on optimizing your sperm health, that's you know, the ideal situation. 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:57.720 Um, we also do know that procedures like IVF actually can overcome an abnormal sperm QT result. 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:10.360 So in the cases where our prospective parents really don't have the time and and IVF is an option for them, um, we knew we do know that's an option to get to a pregnancy more quickly. 00:17:10.679 --> 00:17:19.880 So there's definitely um lots of things to do with that result, um, and it can help rule out male factor, which is a really important point too. 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:30.519 If

you have a normal result, normal semen analysis, normal DNA fragmentation, you can really focus on um, you know, the female partner to understand how to optimize that end as well. 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:31.320 Right, right. 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:38.599 And I would say, you know, it if it time air quotes, time being of the essence, we're talking once again, 72 days. 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:40.360 We're talking a few months. 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:58.519 And so if someone can make those changes, and it again again, yes, if time it allows, because there are many variables within that uh that statement, uh, there really is advantage to you know making those changes and getting yourself from the 5% to the 15 or the 50%. 00:17:59.159 --> 00:18:10.360 Um, because again, whether it whether IVF can overcome, you know, the sort of conception because they're putting the sperm into the egg, it's still a matter of the quality of the sperm. 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:38.599 And that is something that really isn't, we know there is no research that can prove egg or sperm quality per se for any individual embryo that's that's produced, but we can certainly make uh determinations that that if you go from 5% to 15% on uh on a natural conception or an IVF uh outcome, then you're likely to be improving sperm quality and whole health quality for an IVF outcome as well. 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:39.960 Absolutely. 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:56.920 And what's and what is um our our patients and our uh prospective followers have liked is when they make these changes, you can actually can see where your score changes on the curve and see you know scoot up, you know, into the normal range to a higher percentage per cycle. 00:18:57.079 --> 00:18:59.240 So it is a really question. 00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:04.680 So someone has a full bundle, you know, they do the sperm analysis, DNA fragmentation, and QT. 00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:18.839 They make these lifestyle changes, and I do want to go into what some of those might be, and then they can just do just a QT to see how well has that methylation and epigenetic um result changed. 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:20.119 Yep, that's exactly right. 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:32.359 You can redo the the sperm QT, you know, three to six months with some lifestyle modifications, and we actually offer a discount code for uh men trying to do this test twice. 00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:32.839 So the five. 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:39.000 So want to make it as accessible as possible to understand how their changes are impacting their health. 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:44.759 Yeah, well, any any lab test is really only as good as the follow-up when that's exactly right. 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:54.759 What have you found to be some of the most impactful changes that a man can make, a male can make uh in improving his sperm health? 00:19:55.079 --> 00:20:05.480 Yeah, so um I'll talk about what the research show on the DNA methylation side, the epigenetic side, and then I can talk to what um our providers are telling us they're recommending. 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:23.319 Um on the research side, there's really considerable data around alcohol, excessive alcohol consumption, BMI, diet, um, really, really solid data around pesticide exposures, of course, um, as well, and then um THC use. 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:56.359 Some of the now the data it's really coming out in the last maybe two years about how impactful that is on sperm quality and specifically DNA methylation and sperm on the and really similar to what physicians are providing us that they have, the modifications that they have recommended, but consistently alcohol consumption, BMI, which is a link to diet, cigarette smoking is not like number one, and then THC use is a really big recommendation that we're seeing people shift their um sperm quality. 00:20:56.599 --> 00:21:10.039 Okay, so and once again to to to uh reiterate to sort of bring home the point, this is not just for your next sample, this is for your longevity, this is reflective of your whole health and longevity. 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:38.759 So making those changes to a an organic whole foods-based diet, and then removing the you know, sort of the the pesticides and or the other uh environmental toxic exposures like you know, plastics and phthalates and the things that we see in our everyday life, making those fundamental changes which you will want to make for your home, for your baby anyway, uh, can only improve your outcomes. 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:46.200 Um, are you seeing things like this is this might be a little too obscure, the things like excessive screen time or anything like that. 00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:47.960 Is is that kind of thing showing up? 00:21:48.359 --> 00:22:03.240 No, we haven't collected any of data like that, but I think that's a really interesting area to study is you know, what comes with excessive screen time and how that changes your circadian rhythms and everything about your biology. 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:07.400 So we we haven't studied that, but I think that could be a really interesting Yeah, yeah. 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:09.000 I mean, it just makes sense, right? 00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:23.799 I mean, if we're if we're sitting in front of a Zoom camera for you know hours and hours and hours on end, we're not moving, we're not getting our faces to the sun, we're not, you know, kind of we're probably missing that extra glass to three glasses of purified water. 00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:32.200 Um, so all of the processes that help kind of improve our own detoxification and methylation pathways are being compromised. 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:32.759 Yep. 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:34.599 Yeah, that's that's exactly right. 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:34.920 Yeah. 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:49.319 Um is there an age range within which you would say this is, you know, this like if you're within, you know, 35 to 45 or 45 to 55, this would be a you know a must have, or is it really kind of

across the board? 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:50.920 It's across the board. 00:22:51.079 --> 00:23:00.599 We um we see abnormal results in really young men and normal results in men who are trying to have a baby in their 50s and 60s. 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:00.839 Okay. 00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:05.480 So it really um is is really agnostic to age. 00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:05.799 Okay. 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:16.279 And um it is a it is really something that should be added anytime you're thinking or wanting to understand the likelihood of success, yeah, at any age. 00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:17.160 Okay, all right. 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:24.359 And I, you know, kind of as I just sort of sort imagine someone fresh out of college probably has not been having the best lifestyle. 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:39.000 Whereas someone who's maybe in their 50s and has been trying, you know, kind of trying to preserve longevity may have been doing all the things, checking all the boxes to improve one's, you know, sort of uh biochemistry and and uh internal pathways. 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:41.400 So that that stands to reason. 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:55.960 So ladies and gents, if you're just out of college and you've been sort of doing the beer bongs and pizza parties for the last four years, maybe give yourself a few months of cleaning it up before your first sperm QT to see what is your true foundation, if you've got time. 00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:57.559 That's exactly right. 00:23:57.799 --> 00:23:58.200 Yeah. 00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:00.519 Is there anything that I haven't asked about? 00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:07.559 Because I'm in the category of I don't know what I don't know, that you want to make sure we impart to the viewers and listeners. 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:13.480 Um, I would just want to re-emphasize to the probably female listeners that might be the majority of this group. 00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:23.640 If there's if you keep trying and it's just and everything else looks fine, like please be an advocate to getting more information on the male side. 00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:31.960 Um, because a lot of times, sometimes when you're with your OB, there's not even a recommendation to do a basic semen analysis of finding count and motility. 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:32.200 Yeah. 00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:39.160 So really, really um start to think about the other half of the equation sooner rather than later. 00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:39.480 Yeah. 00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:48.920 Um if I may, I would just add, if if there's a a male who you love, who is your partner who you want to have children with, let's just do this. 00:24:49.000 --> 00:25:01.799 Yes, you know, let's not wait until if you keep trying, because you know, regrettably you can be trying, you can have again, air quote success, but then have recurrent pregnancy loss because there is a sperm issue. 00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:17.240 And if you can just get the data for, you know, right really, you know, before you start, then I think you're going to be in a better position to have a healthy pregnancy and a healthy baby and a healthy family because you'll be continuing these lifestyle practices. 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:23.640 Um, what what is your take on like antioxidant therapy, kind of by and large? 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:30.920 You know, we we see you know reactive oxidative species and therefore antioxidant therapy support um supplements for men. 00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:32.920 Do you do you have an opinion on that? 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:38.440 Yeah, I um I think the supplement world is a really hard one to uh digest. 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:45.000 I think there's probably there's a lot of bad data out there, and there's probably a mix of some good, and it gets really diluted out. 00:25:45.400 --> 00:26:08.839 Um, I do know that, especially for DNA fragmentation, I mean, reactive oxygen species is a huge cause of um uh increased DNA fragmentation, and it's actually a new guideline now for male factor that if you have high DNA fragmentation, removing sperm directly from the testicle to avoid those reactive oxygen species is now the recommendation. 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:13.160 So there is a yeah, so so it's a it's an issue. 00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:26.519 Um, we just had a publication doing um uh high potent antioxidant on um men seeking fertility care and also young controls over time at multiple time points. 00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:30.359 And we do see changes in DNA methylation with time. 00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:37.799 What we don't and in the group of actually the older gentlemen seeking fertility care, we actually see improvement with sperm QT. 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:38.039 Okay. 00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:49.079 The numbers are low, and I wouldn't um and I'm we are so data focused, I wouldn't make a claim that it is um, you know, 100% beneficial. 00:26:49.319 --> 00:27:03.720 But we do see impacts, and um, what those impacts mean are kind of yet to be determined, but there's there's gonna be there's room for additional research right now for how do we bring in the best antioxidant to support um male factor. 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:11.000 And there's some groups out there doing doing good work and understanding that you can't just overload with antioxidants, there can be a reverse effect as well. 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:11.559 That's right. 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:13.880 So I I guess that's a long answer too. 00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:41.240 I know it's it's it is the perfect answer because you know, we are so supplement-driven in in our culture that we think, oh, I'll just I'll just you know go to you know um that the either the big box store or to that that uh online dispensary in the sky that everybody seems to get their supplements from, and I wish you wouldn't, people, and and then think that you're taking something that's good that's good for you, but it it may it may be you know it may be oxidized, it may be damaged. 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:47.799 And of course, you know, healthy eating is going to be an antioxidant therapy as well. 00:27:47.960 --> 00:28:01.160 Getting your fruits and vegetables, getting your proteins that are grass-fed, finished, organic, etc., free range, wild-caught, all of those things, you will derive your antioxidant support from your food. 00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:16.440 But if you're close to um wanting to conceive, and and if if you're you know getting these results back that kind of look suspect or that you need some help, um having a high quality antioxidant support is is uh I think recommended. 00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:19.000 And I I I am a proponent of uh Dr. 00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:20.839 Paul Turek's um product. 00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.079 That's who we did our study with with for Alpher. 00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:25.880 Yes, yes, it's it's a really amazing product. 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:29.319 And so we'll put that in the show notes as well because it's good, good, good. 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:31.480 It's one that that's tried and true and tested. 00:28:31.640 --> 00:28:34.359 So we're not we're not just promoting something because we both love Dr. 00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:37.480 Turek, but because the product works. 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:38.359 I love that. 00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:40.039 I agree with everything you just said. 00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:41.319 Okay, great, great, great. 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:42.680 I want to be mindful of your time. 00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:45.319 I want to be mindful of the viewers and listeners' time. 00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:58.519 Viewers, listeners, if you got anything out of this, and I can't imagine that you didn't, please check out the show notes, click through to Sperm Q or to Path Fertility and order the right bundle that's for you. 00:28:58.759 --> 00:29:03.720 Share this because even if it, even if you're like, okay, we're good, we've been tested, we're good. 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:10.519 We just said, you know, we know that one in five couples are struggling with fertility, half of those are male factor. 00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:19.799 So your forwarding or recommending this this podcast to someone else could be the very thing that brings another healthy baby into the world. 00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:23.000 So we thank you for your time and your attention. 00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:26.839 And uh, Kristen, thank you so very much for joining us today. 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:34.680 And hope we'll get you back on another on another podcast so we can talk about some of the latest data because it is an ever evolving field. 00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:35.559 Absolutely. 00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:37.000 Thank you so much for the opportunity. 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:38.200 Oh, it's my pleasure.