النص الكامل لحلقة When Birth Doesn't Go As Planned: Finding Empowerment in the Unexpected with Jen

about all the medical details, like do we do the vitamin K shot? and she was really good about that. And we talked through the birth I wanted, and she was like, So I'm very familiar with your OB. And she's an excellent OB, but you're probably not gonna get that birth. Which was a little intimidating when you're seven months pregnant and now deciding do I really want to try and stick to my birth plan or switch OBs. So I switched OBs at eight months pregnant to a group of midwives. so that was that was kind of leading up. A lot of just turbulence getting to that point. and I wrote up my birth story and I read all the books and did all the things and it was this wonderful plan. And then Three weeks before my daughter was due on a Saturday morning, I sat up in bed and I was like, water just broke. And I turned to my husband and I, yeah, I was like, I I think my water just broke. And he was like, No, no, no, she's not due yet. And I was like, I know. And he's like, Did you pee? I was like, maybe. So my husband was doing an MVA program at UT that met on the weekends at the time. So I was like, Well, you just go to class. I'll just go get this checked out. And one of my sisters was living with us at the time, so I woke her up like two hours later and I was like, hey, would you mind driving me to the hospital? I might be in labor. And she's like, what? So we drive down there, and the hospital I was delivering at was actually closing down in two months. So you like pull up and you're like, wait, wait, wait, there's like fences and gating, only half the hospital's open. So you're walking through like dark halls. But you know, it's it was just kind of humorous the way it was. But we get in there and they're like, you're in active labor. Like they check me, they're like, Yes, your water did break, you're having contractions every three minutes, like you're in labor. And I was Well, I don't feel anything. And they're like, Okay, well, so because I had a doula and being with the midwives, they were like, There's no signs that you're not okay. You're welcome to go home and labor f until five PM tonight, or if you start feeling contractions. And I was like, Yes, I will go home. and I text my husband and I'm like, Hey, I'm in active labor, and his whole class is like, dude, you gotta go. And he's like, She said I can stay and his whole class was like, You you gotta go home. So he came home and I just Hung out at home all day until about five PM I had I had to go back. And contractions were starting to kick in, but I'm thinking we're gonna have a baby in the next few hours. And I was so, so very wrong. the next 20 hours-ish are all kind of just a series of me, my husband, the doula, and whatever rotating nurse of laboring. And because it was midwives, I walked around a lot, I labored in a tub, I labored in a shower. Everyone saw me naked more than you should ever see someone naked. And there was midwife there, I don't know what it's called, I guess the intern, the

doing her residency or something there. And she came in and she was staying with us, and like I don't remember this, but apparently I hated her, like hated her for the first six hours. And then at some point something switched, and I just loved her. I'm friends with her on Instagram, like hugs and crying. And I didn't even remember hating her till a week after birth when my doula was like, So when did you start liking Natalie? And I was like, I did hate her for a while. But the the points I remember from that were I think we tried every every single thing under the sun you can try to deal with contractions, pushing on my back, walking, breathing, a ball. I was delirious. And it was during Game of Thrones time, and I had this like big fuzzy gray blanket. That I would wrap around me and I was like, I need my John Snow cape. it's so, it's just so ridiculous. And I feel like I had just seen all these women who were like, and then each contraction, and it was one like it was awful. It was it was painful and awful. And I was like, this baby's never gonna come out. What are we gonna do? And so by the next day, it was I think like three o'clock in the afternoon, and I'd been in labor for 33 hours. And my body started to give out. So my labor stopped and I got a fever. And one of the midwives came in and she was like, Okay, you're warm. And I'm not gonna say what that actually is because it can mean a lot of things. She was like, We have hit a point where you must get this baby out. And if you don't, we're going to do a C-section. And at that point, I had actually pushed for two hours, and I remember having this. thought, because you're delirious and you're tired. And I was like, I'll be damned if I just ruined my Vijay J and now you're gonna cut me open too. no, we're not doing that. So my doula, my husband and I, we sat down in the room and I remember I was sobbing because I had to let go of my birth plan, which was to have a baby naturally with no medication. And I'd I'd put in all this work. I'd been in pain for 33 hours. Like, how could I come this far and still have to give it up? And I was I was sobbing full blown, full body, and you're just so tired. And we sat down and we talked about all the options and I'm still like having contractions and still in pain. And it came down to I could keep trying for a little bit, and if it didn't happen, I was going to go into a C section, or I could get an epidural. push pitocin and see if we can get her out that way. But at the end of the day, it was you have to get this baby out now. you're in distress, baby's in distress. And we decided to do the epidural. Which like that needle. Come on, guys. Like seriously. And you're like contracting and they're like, I'm gonna shove this in your back. Don't move. And you're like, okay, let me just tell my baby not to contract for a minute here. Like, what? So they gave me the epidural. And then They tell you to rest because you're about to start pushing. And they gave me an orange popsicle. And I remember all the doctors had come in and were ready to start like pushing again. And my popsicle wasn't done. And I was like, no, like I just wouldn't start. I wouldn't even start putting her until I was I hadn't eaten in so long. And you're like, This is the first piece I've had in hours. I'm gonna take it because I know what's coming next. So at that point we did, we started pushing and I couldn't figure out how to have an effective push to get the baby out. So it's not you're not your in your best moment. You're not looking your best. People are holding your legs and they roll in a big huge mirror so I can see it. And I was just like What is this? so you know, we pushed, pushed, she came out and there I had I had my beautiful baby girl. and they laid her on my stomach. And even with the midwives, I had to do this with both my babies. In that moment, you're still having to advocate for yourself. Cause even after all that, I had to be like I had to remind them and I had to say, and thankfully my doula was in too, being like, no, we are not cutting that cord until it's done pumping. there's so many little details that if you don't know beforehand, it's way too overwhelming to deal with it when you're already there. And it was just, I remember thinking, I can't believe I'm having to advocate for this right now. After 36 hours of labor, that like this isn't standard practice. And and for anyone who did get it, it's fine. You know, everything is fine, but And she was, she was three weeks early, seven and a half pounds, didn't have to go into NICU or anything. She was perfectly fine. I took her home the next day. they were like, if you'd waited six more hours, she wouldn't be a premi. And I was like, Thanks. I'll just hold her in next time. Cause they had to do like the car seat test and everything they do for a premium, because she was six hours shy of being a full thirty-seven weeks. So yeah, but it was it was a mind blowing experience. And then I was immediately like, and now I need a hamburger, please go get me one. Right. Brooke: Yeah, that's my favorite Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: post-birth. That, okay, not to jump on me right now, but this baby, that is a literally what I told everybody. I'm like, obviously, I'm excited to give birth again, have a newborn, new baby, woo-hoo, yay, yay. But I cannot wait for my big juicy double bacon cheeseburger. Lettuce tomato pickle ketchup from five guys and my huge large fry. That is what I'm excited for. Jen Ward: Yeah, Nutella milkshake. Nutilla milkshake and a hamburger from this place that does gluten-free buns and everything. Cause after Brooke: That's nice. Jen Ward: having a baby, I'm like, I'm not doing a lettuce wrap. I need the full one. But Brooke: Yeah, yeah. Jen Ward: but yeah, it was I probably glazed over a lot of things because no one needs to hear every minute of 33 hours of labor. I think the big thing is is that like I wanted a certain berth. It didn't go exactly

how I planned. But and that's and that's okay. And it was scary and it was hard and it was beautiful and we laughed and we cried and my daughter actually turned eight on Wednesday. And to this day, we're eight years out. I still text my doula a picture of her every year on her birthday and I'm like, Can you believe it? And then we both laugh about the Jon Snow cape and all the other like random things that happened that night. So Brooke: Yeah. Jen Ward: It's still it's not a it's not a bad memory for me. It's an excellent one. Brooke: Yeah, and I I like though that even though you didn't get exactly what you wanted, you have been really good about not letting that totally derail how you view your birth experience. And I think too many times, especially in the age of social media, we allow social media to tell us what our birth should look like exactly. And then if it doesn't look like the twinkle lights and the peace and then it's like, well. my birth story has failed. And like everybody has their own experiences. And and even if you have had multiple kids, I'm sure you're learning that your birth stories are all different. Comes from the same mom. They're all different. And and it's such a beautiful thing, really. Jen Ward: I think we forget that inside of us is its own human being who's already making their own decisions and we cannot control what they are gonna do any more than we can control the weather. So it's you set up so that you've at least reviewed all the options so that when options come to you, you know what they mean. But at the end of the day, we only have so much control over like I did not plan 36 hours of labor three weeks early at all. At all. Not one bit. Brooke: No. Jen Ward: But but it was the birth I needed to build confidence in myself that I could be a mom and and not sleep for thirty six hours. Brooke: Yeah, no, for sure. And, you know, you had said too, you described this like this experience of when she was crowning that you just literally felt like the strongest woman in the world, obviously post birth. But if you felt like, you know, I can do that, I can do anything, what was it about that experience that made you feel that way? Jen Ward: I was thinking about that and I was thinking about it if someone told you I just ran 36 hours and then I crossed the finish line, you'd be like, You ran for 36 hours. That's amazing. And I was like, I I grew a human. And then I survived a very long marathon event. And then I pushed that human out into the world. and I think like that in itself. will make you feel like there doesn't even have to be all these other things to it. It's more even if you just pull it back to the very absolute basics of what we're doing, we are creating, with God's help and all the things, but we are creating life. And then you're bringing a human Brooke: yeah. Jen Ward: into the world. And you yes, you're a mother when it's growing inside of you, but something changes when your baby comes out into the world and you're they're no longer you're no longer one. You're now two. And that is just The most incredible thing that you look at it and you're like, I grew a heart and an entire body. I can't fix my sprained ankle, but I grew this entire body and now it's out in the world and it's just mine. And part of you looks around like, do I need to take a test? are you sure you want to send me home? I think you need to be trying to qualify. And then on top of all of that, your body immediately is ready to start feeding it. how It's just so mind blowing to me. Just Brooke: Yeah, it's literally miraculous. That's what I say all the time. Like, Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: it's not like when you get pregnant, it's automatically already like how it's gonna be when you push it out, right? It's literally a sperm and an egg that is coming together. And then by your 20-week ultrasound, you actually can watch on the ultrasound their kidneys working, their bladder filling up and emptying. You can watch the chambers of their heart. opening and closing and you can watch the when they change the setting on the ultrasound, the heat to where you can see the blood coming in, the blood going out. Jen Ward: you're just walking around as Brooke: What? Jen Ward: two humans. Brooke: Yeah. Like what? It's it is so insane to me. And like just like what a woman's body goes through to be able to do that. Like it is insane. Like not you're growing a human, you birth a human, and then you take care of a human and it just is really miraculous. Like that's the only word I can ever come up with it because how else? Can that happen? that's crazy. It's so crazy. Yeah. Jen Ward: It's so incredible. So yeah, I I wish I had some more like, and then I have this, but it's really like, no, I did a 36 hour marathon and that that's pretty empowering for me. Brooke: No, really, but I feel like moms need to hear that though. Moms need to hear Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: that long labors, yeah, they suck because nobody wants to do a marathon for that long. Like that that sucks. But also like you can still feel so empowered, whether you have a long Jen Ward: So strong. Brooke: labor or short labor. Like it's not about the length of time of your labor. It's more about, you know, feeling empowered afterwards or just like really understanding. What you just went through. I think that's so important. did you have to do anything to prepare differently for your second time around? Jen Ward: not anything specific originally. So it took me forever to get pregnant with a second one. So after having both my first two pregnancies be first try, we were trying for almost a year before I got pregnant with my second baby to a point where I was like, Okay, something wrong. I think the world just wasn't ready for me to be pregnant with her yet. And then we did finally get pregnant. So, and I didn't we didn't do any extra anything. I mean, my husband was eating more walnuts and eating zinc and, you know, vitamin stuff,

but nothing, there was no medical intervention for it. and then I used I had the same doula, the same midwives. Unfortunately, the hospital I had delivered at, as I'd mentioned, closed down like a month after my first was born. So we were going to be at a different hospital, but it was with the same group that I had had my first baby with. Brooke: nice. Jen Ward: Yeah, so that was good. Brooke: And yeah, and I know you said that you were planning a home birth for your second. What encouraged you to seek out a home birth after your delivery of your first? Jen Ward: My doula actually had opened her own midwifery, business of her own from when she was my doula. She's Of course I'll still be your doula for this. and she was doing home births at that time. And so Brooke: it's cool. Jen Ward: I loved the idea of that. The midwife that I had my baby with at the hospital, they allowed you to birth in a tub, like they had all the options. And so just knowing I could have access to all of that, I was like, I mean, why not? And I trusted the process. We're very close within a five minute drive of hospitals that I was like, okay, I'm in a good situation that if something did go wrong, I'm very close to medical assistance. Unfortunately, at 25 weeks, we had to get our 20-week ultrasound redone because the baby was just in one of those positions. We're like, we can't see, we'll do another one at 25 weeks. And you're like, okay, perfect. at that 25-week ultrasound, we got some devastating news that our baby, my second-born Tegan, had a C CAM. So I didn't know what that was. What it is, is it's like a cyst on the lung, and it can grow in the baby, and if it starts to grow, it can grow. In the worst case scenario is your baby does not make it. they'll do in your drill surgery sometimes and you really have no idea what's going to happen. They can't tell you. It's we'll wait and see. So at twenty five weeks, home birth was immediately out of the question because now you are a high risk pregnancy. I was already a little on the risk because as we know, I'm a geriatric pregnancy. I was thirty-eight when I had my second born. Brooke: Yeah. Jen Ward: So that was that was scary. That that Brooke: For sure. Jen Ward: can't ex I don't know if I can even explain sitting in that waiting room of the OB and you just feel like the whole rug has been ripped out from under you and you're thinking, I can't I can't do this. What are we gonna do? And you're I mean, don't think I've ever prayed so hard in my life, right? I mean Brooke: Yeah. No for sure. Jen Ward: It was one of those moments where you're like, well, there's no way I can do this on my own. I have to I have to give this to you because cause you can't control it. I had no control. It's not like I could eat something and it wouldn't be it'd all be okay. so I became high risk then and I was going to have to deliver at UT hospital with the high risk doctors. And I had to get ultrasounds every single week then moving forward. And we were so blessed. That it never grew. It never grew. And there was never Brooke: Yeah, wow. Jen Ward: any risk. It was never a problem. Brooke: Great. Jen Ward: and we were totally fine. However, because I was high risk, I was very, very, very pressured to schedule an induction. and there was a lot of fear. associated with that on why I I was like, no, I'm we're we're gonna be fine. I'm just gonna wait until she's ready. And they were because I'm older, it wasn't even because of the C Cam anymore. It's like, well you're older, you definitely should just do an induction. And if you don't schedule this, like you're not gonna be able to do it last minute. I can't believe and then when I said I planned on having an unmedicated birth, I remember one of the doctors laughed. He was like see how that goes and I was just like I just remember thinking like I can't believe this is how it is. and I actually I ended up falling down three stairs when I was thirty-eight weeks pregnant with her and had to go in and had some contractions, I was fine, but it was a similar situation at the hospital where they're like, We have to check and I'm calling my dealer, she's like, They don't have to check and that can cost start late, but like there's just Having a dooler or having someone you can call in these situations is so helpful because it has it's someone who's not as emotionally charged as you are dealing with a scary situation, helping you walk through it. so getting to the delivery of my second one, there was a solid amount of just unknowns and changes in my birth plan, in my doctors, and in the things I was gonna have to deal with at every single appointment. with some fear involved and it got very, very medical very, very fast, which is the exact opposite extreme of the birth I had originally planned for that pregnancy. so that was it was definitely a journey getting her to delivery. Brooke: Yeah. Yeah. No, and I'm really sorry that you went through all of that too. obviously we never want to be sick or have or have anything wrong with us. And then you add your child in there, whether they're born or in your womb, there's just a different feeling, a different emotion that really overtakes you. And so I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. But I am glad that You obviously had your doula as well. I think that it is just like you said, I think that it is very awesome to have other people who are kind of have the expertise in the birth world to where they care for you and they're all about serving you, but they have the background, the knowledge that can really help you feel very just like calm. They kind of just, like you said, like they take the emotion out of it to where they're actually talking reason to you and not just fear-mongering you into getting things done. And I think that, and because I'm a huge, I'm a huge advocate for Adula at any point in time, but especially first-time moms, and especially if you are a first-time mom

birthing in a hospital. because Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: That made the difference for me, I truly believe, to have a good experience in the hospital with my first and then my second was a home birth and then this one planning a home birth as well. But the people that you surround yourself with really do take scary situations or just even if you don't have any scary situations, but you just want some peace, like they just really help with that. So Jen Ward: Yeah, and she gave me a lot of confidence that in my weekly ultrasounds and when they were like, You really should induce. I did not feel bad at all telling them no. And when they disagreed with me, I was like, That's fine. We are allowed to disagree because at the end of the day, I know my body, and I know I'm it's not like I'm not discussing this with another healthcare professional in my doula who was also a midwife. And they don't have to live with the decisions that are made. I do. So what decisions am I comfortable living with? And what decisions honor what I want and I need, or I I say I, obviously my husband was a part of every single one of these conversations. But and and they are they're excellent medical professionals. They are doing what they see as being the least risky option for you as a patient. Like they're not doing anything wrong. We just have a medical system that doesn't always honor all the things that are best for. The mother having that child. So, no hard feelings towards them. They're doing what they think is best medically. And I was doing what I thought was best for me personally. Brooke: Yeah. And I think that's really important to talk about too, because like people just don't understand really that that you're allowed to disagree, you're allowed to ask questions, you're allowed to say no. And just like you said, like medical professionals, they are great in the, you know, expertise area of they've obviously studied it and stuff too, but They're going to do whatever they think is best medically. It's not, they're never like thinking really about like individual scenarios or or like what you want and trying to like do the best thing in between. They're just trying to do, like you said, the least risky thing that they have studied that they know. And it's nice to have a buffer zone and a doula, or even sometimes too, like midwives. Obviously, it's different sometimes the hospital midwives versus like a home birth midwife, but midwives traditionally just have a little bit more like hands-off approach to where they're they work with you a little bit better. Sometimes OBs are just a lot more medical just because that's just what they know. And there's nothing wrong with any of that, but it is important to know you can say no. And just like you, you are allowed to change providers too, like with your first, like. Jen Ward: Yes. Brooke: At any point in time. This is like, no, this Jen Ward: And my cycle. Brooke: is literally one of the hills that I stand on all the time. My soapbox of you are allowed to hire and fire as you please. Even if you are in birth and there's a nurse who you are like, dude, nope. See ya. Bye. Find me a new nurse. I am refusing care from this person. There's a doctor in there that you're like, no, we are not vibing. See ya. you're allowed to do that and you're not being difficult. You're protecting your space and your birth space is very important because it's not just a surgery. you're not prepping to go into a big surgery, obviously C section and stuff too, but you are preparing for something that is a life changing event that is supposed to be important. And Jen Ward: Right. Brooke: yeah. And so that's always just my soapbox of I'm very passionate about that, clearly, because no one ever should just be bullied into doing certain things just because it's medically the right thing to do, you know? Jen Ward: And I think of it too, now that I have kids, I always think about it. I'm like, what if my child was in this situation? Would I speak up for her for this nurse to leave if she was having a hard time? And it's much easier than 'cause I'm like, of I would. And I'm like, why would I accept that then? And I at my pediatrician, I won't let one of the nurses give my kids vaccines because she's kind of aggressive with it. And I would so she's and so if we're willing to do it for them, we deserve that same thing as well. And I you can be lucky or not. It's both. I've been having to advocate for my health for a really long time. One thing I ha didn't mention is I have Crohn's disease. So I did both of these pregnancies and births with Crohn's disease. And I've been off all medication for 10 years or so, which like doctors, I've had to find really good ones help me work through that and stuff. So I've had 20 plus years of experience not necessarily going the way the doctors want me to go. And I think it helped me a lot going into these pregnancies. That that's something I was very accustomed to is being like, great, I appreciate your opinion. Thank you for sharing. And then going and deciding what actually was best for me. so it's if you hadn't had if I hadn't had that experience coming into it, I probably wouldn't have been so comfortable being like, cool, thanks for your input. And I'm gonna do this anyway. Brooke: Yeah. Yeah, no for sure. And it just stinks that like we have to advocate for ourselves so much too. especially in birth. Like how you said too with your first, like you basically had to be like, no, don't touch don't touch the cord, like we're not doing that. Like, I just think that is wild. You've already voiced exactly what you want. It's already been known, like what? Like Jen Ward: It was written, written down. yeah. Brooke: Hands off. Yeah, that's the stuff that ticks me off. That's the stuff that gets me fired up to where I'm like, why should I just went through 36 hours of labor? I just pushed this human being that I grew out of me. And I told you this is the one one of the

things I did not want. And here you are going against my wishes. Like, Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: it fires me up. I can't stand that at all. Like at all. Jen Ward: It's like the world knew I was over it though for my second one because there was no time. They were like, Brooke: Yeah. Yeah. Jen Ward: this is happening. But it's there are funny things that happen with that too. Brooke: Yeah. Jen Ward: I can go through that story if you're ready. because I know we talked about my pregnancy with her. she Brooke: absolutely. Yeah, go ahead. Jen Ward: meant the full 40 weeks, right? So I had one, my first one comes three weeks early, which everyone says, your first one goes the full time. And then they're like, careful with those second ones. They come early. No. They don't. They do whatever they want. So she was the full 40 weeks. And I all day I was like, I think I'm having contractions. We were like, maybe, maybe not. so at like 7 p.m., I finally call our daycare woman who is so amazing and really we're really close with her. And she had pr said she would take our oldest since we don't have family. And like, hey, I think maybe you should come get Kai. And it's seven o'clock. And my contractions were still eight to ten minutes apart. And it was it was actually more of the very normal, this hurts really bad. And I'm gonna relax. And I was at home and I'm in bed and they were awful, but it was more of that like I was like, I'm getting my Instagram worthy laboring this time after that long one. And I'm like preparing to settle in for like two days, right? So my contractions are every eight minutes, and then all of a sudden, they're every two minutes, and then every minute and a half, and we live 25 minutes from the hospital. So my husband calls Ardula and she can hear me full-blown screaming in the background, right? God bless those women who are quiet and peaceful during a contraction. I am not, the whole neighborhood knew I was in. and my husband's like, Hey, can you get here? I don't think she's gonna make it. And my dula was like, I don't know if you're gonna make it, and I can't get there. You either need to get her in the car right now or you're delivering a baby Scott. And my husband was not really on board with delivering the baby, right? So So he gets me downstairs and he calls the police station to see if he can escort to the hospital because we are too far from the hospital for me to get there in time to have this baby not in our car. And they were like, We don't do that. What kind of car do you have? What's your license? We will just let you go. So we left our house at about 9:05. we get to the hospital, he was crying, I'm screaming, and we are going 100 miles an hour down the hot way to get to the hospital. So we get there, and my dealer comes to the door, and she's like, Are we going to? And was like, I'm not walking. Like with the we are in the hospital. There needs to be like a wheel, like, there's no standing for me. So she wheels me in, takes me up, they check me, I'm nine centimeters. My husband runs in and I remember I was on my side and I was laying there and I was like, my gosh, they're gonna have to give me an epidural. I'm like, I was thinking I was gonna lose my unmedicated birth again, right? And I'm like, my poor doula, I'm like holding on to her belt and something else, and I'm screaming, and she's like, I think you're ready to push. And I just remember thinking, I've heard there's a ring of fire coming. I don't know if I'm ready for that. And so as I'm pushing and the head is crowning and coming out, there is someone shoving an IV in me at that point in time because I don't know, like who who needs an I I mean, we're there. And they're like, in the case, they're reading off whatever the stuff is that you have they're like, and your name is like someone standing here asking me questions, like about medical stuff. And my husband was like, she's kind of busy. Can you can we we're not So and we didn't even, there wasn't even a doctor in the room. So I think a nurse caught the baby. I was right at the end of the bed. My husband was like, if she hadn't been there, the baby would have just gone on the floor. And my water came out with the baby. So it was like a lot all at once. and they, I mean, the doctor came in. So the nice thing was there was no monitors, there was no questions about anything because I got to the hospital and the baby was out. So like I said, we left my house at 9 05. My baby was born at 9 45 at a hospital that is 25 minutes from our house. So it was intense. and they couldn't cut the cord because it was hooked on something in me. So they could only like set her like very low on me. and they were like, I guess we'll just wait a few minutes. And I'm like, you will, you will. But I remember when Maidula was like, I think it's time to push, all of a sudden I was like, I'm gonna get that. I'm gonna get the unmedicated birth I always wanted. So it wasn't the crazy long labor, it wasn't some huge marathon. And I got the piece that I missed in my first birth. I got in my second one. And it's like I'd already paid my dues on the actual laboring process that they were like, we'll let you skip that and just get straight to pushing this out. And then I got to the hospital so late. that I didn't even have to deal with any of the medical side of it. It's like I might as well have had a home birth, but I got to do it where someone else cleans everything up. So it was like again, Brooke: Yeah. Jen Ward: not the home birth I planned, but somehow the world still gave me as close to a home birth as you could possibly get with a high risk geriatric pregnancy. And it was I couldn't have asked and the hospital cleans and does everything for you. So like really, it was the best. of both worlds. And she was she Brooke: Yeah. No I Jen Ward: was a salad eight pounds, so she was yeah, I did not have babies. Brooke: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's that's awesome. Honestly. Jen Ward:

Are you? Brooke: I I just think it's so crazy too. the difference between the two is like 36 hour labor early and then basically like Jen Ward: What's the Brooke: not even that long, right? I just think that Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: is so crazy. It reminds me a lot of like my Second two because my midwife didn't make it and my husband did deliver my son on our bed because I literally was j I was literally in like basically I woke up from a nap in active labor and was in labor for an hour and 18 minutes before he was born. So I was just like, man. So I can relate though to your husband saying, like, I'm not delivering, because that was my husband. And then I said, Well. Honey, you gotta you it's either you or I'm delivering my own baby because we're here. So yeah. Jen Ward: And if it had happened, he one hundred percent he would have stepped up and he'd have been in there and he'd have made it happen. But if Brooke: for sure. For sure. Jen Ward: he knew there may have been enough time, he was like, I will I will get you to a hospital Brooke: Yes, no, for sure. I love that. And you know, that's exactly what my husband had said too, that he really didn't plan for that, but like it wasn't bad. You know, it was Jen Ward: Right. Brooke: actually really cool. Like his firstborn son, he got to deliver and he rocked it. That's why we call him mid-man now. Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: he's the mid-man around the house. So Jen Ward: I love that. Brooke: yeah, at what point in, you know, this really kind of both your birth stories really, but was there a point where you had to really just let go of what you had originally like envisioned for your birth? Jen Ward: yeah, I in both of them, but one of them one of them happened in the midst of actually giving birth with my firstborn Kai. And I think that one was a lot harder because even though you know it's not true, a little of you feels like somehow you failed. Like how you know, I failed, I didn't make it, there is literally nothing I could have done. I couldn't control the fact that every time a new person in the room came into the room, my labor stopped. Didn't matter who it was. Like it's a subconscious thing that was happening for me. and that was a little bit hard to deal with in the moment. I remember a week after I had my baby when I was home and my dealer came, she's like, How do you feel that you didn't get the birth you wanted? And I remember even that close to it. I wasn't really mad. I was a little bummed out, but I I think I was able to accept that I still have a very healthy baby and I didn't have to deal any with like I didn't tear very bad. I didn't get a C-section. My baby didn't need any extra like NICU time or anything. And that can be really hard on everyone. And As I mentioned before, I do have Crohn's disease and I've had entire li years of my life go very differently than I planned because of surgeries, because of this, that, or the other thing. And I think that that has helped me though realize that life is never gonna go as you plan. generally speaking, across all of my life, I've just had a lot of things happen where it just doesn't happen how you think it's going to happen. So I think it was a little easier for to accept the parts that did work out, mourn the parts that didn't. And that's the thing is like Brooke: Mm-hmm. Jen Ward: we tell people, well he it's okay and this and this and this. And I'm like, well cool. And I'm still gonna grieve the fact that I didn't get certain parts of it. And like grieving is okay. It doesn't Brooke: Yes. Jen Ward: mean you don't have to turn every moment into a learning or experience. It can just be sad. Brooke: Yes. Thank you for saying that too. Because I think so many times, like, especially moms who weren't wanting a c-section that ended up in a c-section. They had like this big plan for, you know, a vaginal birth and it peaceful and all this. And then it ends up in sometimes an emergency c section too. That I don't know if it's social media, if it's, you know, just pressure that put on yourself, but moms just go into this to where they Are like, I didn't get the birth that I want. And then they feel like they have to like either justify it or they're not allowed to mourn that they didn't get that. And it's like because everybody's thing is always, as long as it was a healthy mom and a healthy baby, and of course that's important, but that's gaslighting moms into not allowing them to Really experience either the trauma that they did experience or Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: the the heartache of man, I really wish this is how my birth would have been. They're obviously happy that they're healthy and their baby is healthy, but that doesn't justify and dismiss the feeling that you have when some pieces, whether it's just a few pieces of it, if it's your whole birth story, don't go the way that you wanted it to. And so thank you for speaking to that because I think that that. can really set some moms free too of you can feel two emotions at one time. You can be Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: so happy that you and your baby are safe and healthy and now you have your precious little one, but you can also mourn the fact that you did not get what you expected out of your birth. So Jen Ward: Yes. And finding the community that'll give you the space to have those. I think we as a society, how are you doing? I'm good. Not well, actually, you know. So finding that community that'll allow you to have hold the joy and know that having the grief doesn't diminish your joy and gives you the space to speak about both of them and experience both of them and hold them with you. I think it's just so important to find people like that. as you go into anything in life, not just pregnancy, all things, but especially raising kids, finding your people that all will allow you to have both those emotions instead of trying to push the uncomfortable one under the rug and being like, Brooke: Yeah. Jen Ward: well, you don't you

don't feel that way. You're like, no I do So Brooke: Yeah. Yeah. And just stop gaslighting moms too. Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: and some people might be just fine and happy that however their birth story ended up if it wasn't exactly what they wanted. But other people can really mourn that too and just allow them. Allow them to do that. don't just force like well, healthy baby, healthy you, you're good. No, yes, but no. Like that I think that's really important. And you've talked a little bit about your support team that you had to, your doula and your husband specifically. And obviously the midwives that you had with your first were very awesome in supporting you. How much of a role did they truly play for you? And kind of maybe what were some of those things that really helped you? Jen Ward: my husband and my doula, I would say, played the biggest role. I switched doctors, midwives, all the things. It's not that they weren't amazing, they just they were doing their like strict job. my doula met me where I was and helped me get whatever information I wanted. So I really wanted to understand what all happens after birth, what decisions would I have to make. I mentioned earlier in the conversation, you know, the vitamin K shot, the other things that happen. she was really great about giving me resources and there was a handful of books I read where she's like, You don't have to pick anything, read these and what do you think? And she really helped me build my confidence that a decision I made today I can change my mind in three days once I have different information, or if I just don't feel the same way about it. And she was so kind and understanding about all of that. And I mean, my husband was. So great in just listening to all my worries, right? He may not have understood all of them, he may not have even agreed with them. And sometimes he was probably like, but he listened to all of them and he really just supported any decision I did make because he his, I think, I mean, I may be putting words in his mouth, but the way I felt from him was that at the end of the day, this is my body doing this, and like. As l unless I'm making some awful decision that is truly unhealthy, which we are, but it was what do you feel comfortable doing? This is your body that is going through this. How can I support you? And he supported me through every single piece of that. so that was 'cause we just we didn't have family here. We didn't have people to lean on. there's a saying like, dig your well before you're thirsty. I think it's one of those things like the day you find out you're pregnant, start building that village, because you may not need them at all. But you don't wanna wait until you need them to have to go find them. Brooke: Yeah, that's that's really good. and you know, you've obviously had two very different birth experiences, right? And you shared kind of with me that you believe every birth is unique and that each of your births was exactly what you specifically needed to prepare for the next phase of motherhood. Can you just kind of expand on that and what you mean by that? Jen Ward: Yeah, the inc incredibly long labor with my first one, it built resilience in me and confidence in me that I could be resilient enough to handle anything. My firstborn did not sleep. Had I known that that first 36 hours awake would just continue on for the next three and a half years, but it made me really believe I was strong and it built confidence in me that I could do this. And Obviously, I would have been thrilled to get an unmedicated birth, but it helped me recognize that I I also don't control every single piece of this. And it was the when you're dealing with it in pregnancy already, having to kind of advocate for yourself, I quickly realized that that would be every single thing with kids. It doesn't matter your pregnancy, your delivery, and every single decision you make after that moment. There's gonna be a lot of people who disagree with you and a lot of people who agree with you. And It's only at the end of the day though, I am the one who has to live with it every single day. So it helped me just really settle into that, well, I just have to do what's best for our family because no matter what I do, someone will have an opinion about it. So it gave me some strength for that. My second one, being that real fast and out, it gave me that empowering feeling of I did this unmedicated. That's right. I can do I can do unmedicated life. And our secondborn is just wild and I love her. And she is just unapologetically herself. And I was like, I'm glad that we had that very intense short spurt of intensity because it just matches who she is. So they set you Brooke: Yeah, for sure. Jen Ward: up set you up for whatever's coming down the road. You don't know what it is. But in hindsight you're like, I see why this happened. Brooke: Yes, I can totally relate to that because I feel like my pregnancies and my births have matched what my kids' personalities end up being to where like my first one was just like your traditional like birth and textbook and just like peaceful in my firstborn is that. She's definitely very talkative, but she's just like, you know, a great big sister and so sweet. Then there's my second that came. Jen Ward: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Brooke: Crazy and he is all boy because he is wild and he likes to climb. He likes to do all of that stuff, but he really is so sweet too. But it just cracks me up because as his Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: personality is continuing to develop more since he's two, you can that's when their personalities really start coming out. I'm like, wow, Jen Ward: Wild. Brooke: my birth with you prepared me for you, son. I love that. Jen Ward: It really does, but you don't know until later. So it's not like you can Brooke: exactly. Jen Ward: you can have the baby and be like, what did this prepare me for? It's like years later you're like, I see. I see what you did there. Brooke:

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. No, for sure. so you had originally envisioned, you know, a home birth with your second, but after your daughter's diagnosis at your ultrasound, obviously your plans had to change because, you know, high-risk hospital birth now. so how did you learn to really separate your Birth experience that you wanted from the birth experience that you actually had have. Jen Ward: I mourned the loss of the home birth. I definitely cried and I cried to my gula. I cried to my husband. and I think I it's one of those things where sometimes I remember praying that I could just let it go, you know? And I've been like this kind of my whole life where I get upset, I mourn the thing, and then I'm like, okay, and now we're just gonna move on. And that sounds so like, I just didn't even care. I cared deeply, but I think just because of a lot of things growing up and stuff, I have learned to be like, well, this is not an ideal situation, and we're gonna roll with it. I was also still severely sleep deprived because my firstborn at that time still was not sleeping. So I think some of it too was I was just like, that's unfortunate, and I am too tired to really be that deeply upset. You're just, you know. Brooke: For sure. Yeah. so what would you say to a mom who feels like, you know, she's already grieving the birth experience that she thought she was going to have when circumstances just change? Jen Ward: I'd be like, yes, girl. Yes. grieve it. It is okay to be upset that you are not going to get the birth experience you wanted forever if you want. don't hold on to it and let it ruin your life. But yeah. Yes, it's it's sad and awful and let me sit there with you in it. Cause there's no words, there's no No experience that's gonna make that feel better. That mom has to decide how she wants to move forward. And there's nothing I can say to make it not hurt or make it change. It's more just it's like when your kid falls down and scrapes their knee. I'm not like, it doesn't hurt, you're okay. I'm like, Yup, that hurts. Let it out. Let it out. Because it does hurt. And you need to cry. And we can't move on from it until we acknowledge that. It really hurts. So Brooke: Yeah. Jen Ward: I don't I don't have words to say make them feel better. It's more just No, it does. It just it just sucks. Brooke: Yeah, and I think just like we already said earlier too is letting moms actually feel the feels too and not just saying like, well, at least you have a h healthy baby and you're healthy. Yes, but no. Like let them feel, let them express their feelings for it too. And you know, sometimes people experience very traumatic things that counseling ends up being better and just like you said, like your village. You should be relying on your village and they should be people who are not just brushing it under the rug. They your true village should be allowing you to, feel all of those emotions and just listening and supporting you too. And I think that's really, really important. So Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: you've mentioned that one of the biggest lessons from both of your births was just learning how important it is to advocate for what want. So what did you learn about speaking up, maybe asking questions and making decisions about your own care? Jen Ward: So when I am questioning a doctor about legitimate things, or it it doesn't really matter what they are, don't even have to be legitimate. If I have questions about my own health and my baby, and they get defensive or rude or uncomfortable, I am not responsible for their emotions or how they feel when someone asks some questions. and that's really hard because you I'm a people pleaser. I don't like making people feel uncomfortable. but I got very protective of the human growing inside of me that other people's emotions no longer mattered. I was paying money to have this person take care of me. They can answer my questions. and if I don't agree with them, I don't have to agree with them or do what they're telling me to do. obviously they told me to induce with my second one. She came out with zero issues. I mean to this day it it doesn't stop. It doesn't stop with the birthing. So you're you're getting like this introduction course during your pregnancy and birth because it's not like that education stops afterwards. vaccines. I spaced mine for my kids. Some people don't do them at all. Some people do whatever the pediatrician wants. All of them are fine, but it doesn't stop there. So I almost use my pregnancies and my birthing experience to start building that muscle because you're gonna use it the rest of your children's lives, not just in the medical field. At school, with friends' parents, everywhere So I'm thankful that I started getting comfortable with other people being uncomfortable before my kids were even out in this world because it's not gonna stop any time soon. Brooke: Yeah. No, I think that's really good too. And because I mean, just think about even if you're not advocating for yourself at like with your health, there's so many different things that you continue to advocate for every single day. And if you stand for nothing, you'll fall for everything and you'll allow Jen Ward: Right. Brooke: people to get push you around and stuff and like I think it's very important And already to teach your kids at a young age too that you can advocate for yourself and you can ask whatever kind of questions you want because you don't just have to follow just what somebody else is doing, because to that person it might be right, but to you it might go against what you believe or your morals and stuff too. And it's important to advocate for yourself in all realms of life. And I think that that's great that you use, you know, obviously your own medical history and experience before pregnancy and then your pregnancies and obviously into motherhood too because it just never stops. That's for sure. Jen Ward: It never stops. Brooke: For sure. you also experienced

postpartum depression with both of your babies, especially you said you were in the thick of it, when they were 18 months old. and I think that this is just such an important conversation or question to touch on because a lot of times people think that the postpartum depression happens right after you have the baby and it lasts for a short period of time. Jen Ward: Yeah. Brooke: But everybody's season and everybody's, experiences are way different. But what did that season look like for you? And what do you wish that more moms understood about the postpartum mental health? Jen Ward: Yeah, for me, postpartum, like as I mentioned, kicks in pretty late. I think it kicks in more when I so I nursed both my babies for a full year. and when I stopped nursing is when it would really kick in for me. I don't know if it was the disconnection or what who knows? Who I'm sure there's someone who'll be like, it's these chemical reasons as to why. I took three months off with both my kids. So I took three months off work, I was on maternity leave. And I was like in this blissful, cozy land for those three months in no depression. I was not sleeping at all, but no depression. and then I went back to work, and it was three to six months into going back to work when the no sleep, pumping three times a day at work, nursing all night long, it starts to compound for me personally that around nine to eighteen months, I become almost like a shell of a human. I love my babies. There's I feel warm and happy with them. But I feel like I don't know how else to explain other than like I feel like a shell of a human. Like everything feels kind of hard. I'm very tired and I I feel like the world's closing in around me a little bit. And I don't even know how bad it is until honestly a couple years ago when I finally started sleeping again. I did. And the other thing that happened with my firstborn is because 2020 hit as I was hitting my nine to 12 months postpartum as well. And at 18 months postpartum, I was unbelievably depressed, and we had back to back job loss in our house due to COVID. So that was really hard. So then with my second baby, I was really scared that 18 months in I was going to lose my job because I remember having this, and they reassured me that this wouldn't happen. Well, sure enough, after my second Born 18 months. She was 18 months old when I lost my job. and I don't know, it wasn't all postpartum. It's not, and there was other economic factors as well, but it is very isolating. I don't even know what I could have done necessarily to get out of it. I think it's just saying, like, yes, I was there. I don't know how to tell you how to fix it. But I have a psychologist and everything too that I was seeing regularly. I tried to go on something, it did not go well for me. but I think it's just accepting that that is a real thing. You are not broken. your body's going through so many changes that it's not you can't therapy your way out of it always. Sometimes your body just has to reset and get sleep. I wouldn't ask for help. I wouldn't sleep. And I think if I had just been getting sleep, it wouldn't have felt so crushing. And I wasn't getting any sleep. For five years I didn't sleep. Brooke: Yeah. And that's a lot too. And I always talk about too how, you know, we focus so much on like nutrition and sleep and exercise and all of these great things, like in pregnancy and to prepare for the birth. But then it's like we forget all of the amazing things that our body is still doing postpartum to where as moms we forget to take care of ourself. Like now you are taking care of a human and yourself. And you're, especially if you're a first-time mom, you're trying to figure everything out as you go and sleep, nutrition, exercise, all that stuff is so important. Not saying that that fixes everything, because sometimes that's not really the case. But we like just think if a lot of moms would take a little bit more time to have that self-care or a little bit more time to truly nourish your body and stuff too, how maybe. they would feel differently or you just can't forget about yourself postpartum. And I think that that's a lot of times what ends up happening to moms too. And like it's okay to seek counseling too if that's going to help you. Like it's just important to make sure that you're taking care of yourself. Jen Ward: Yeah, and I think that employers need to really realize too that moms can be excellent employees and having a mom pump in a bathroom is not necessarily the ideal situation. And and Brooke: Yeah. Yeah. Jen Ward: and we shouldn't have to feel like we're asking for too much to have a place that isn't a bathroom to pump in. so I think, you know, as a society, we could probably do a better job of supporting moms post birth and realizing that. They did actually have a baby. And there is a lot that goes into that. Instead of expecting them to just bounce back and be the same person they were before. And it's like, that's not really how it works. And it doesn't mean we're weak. It in fact means we're actually quite strong. So yeah, it's building out that community that helps you remember that when you yourself cannot, because you're exhausted and you're pumping and you're nursing, and you're like, I just need to wash my hair. Brooke: Yes, no, for sure. so I like to close every episode with one question that I ask every guest. And that is, if you could speak one piece of empowering wisdom into the hearts of the mothers listening, what would it be? Jen Ward: I think I would tell them, just make the next right decision that is right for you right now. And if you change your mind in three minutes, that's okay too. Cause we talked about, doesn't matter what the decision is you make, someone will have an opinion about it. And instead of worrying about all of them, just make the next right decision because there'll be many more. So I think that's my biggest piece of advice is one decision at a time and just make the next right decision for you. Not for everybody else because you're the one who has to has to make that decision real and live with it and what other people think doesn't really Brooke: Yeah, no, that is so good. And Jen, I just wanna say thank you so much for coming on Herbert Her Story. Jen Ward: It was so fun. Thank you so much for having me. And I hope that some other moms out there, if nothing else, find some entertainment in my births. Brooke: For sure. Wow, Jen, thank you so much for sharing your story. And just thank you to all of our listeners for listening to Her Birth, Her Story. My hope is that every story shared here reminds you that you are not alone, that your voice truly does matter, and that you can approach pregnancy and birth with both wisdom and trust in God who created your body and your baby. If this episode encouraged you, taught you something, or maybe just made you feel less alone, take a minute to follow the podcast, subscribe to our YouTube channel, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, and share this episode with another mom who might need to hear it. And if you have a birth story that you feel called to share or you're a birth professional who wants to add your knowledge and perspective to this space, we would love to connect with you. Reach out to us through our social media or our email. You can follow her birth, her story on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and you can find every episode wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time, remember that this is your body, your baby, and your birth. We are reclaiming birth one story at a time.