النص 🔗
00:00:02
Speaker 1: Previously on Happy Face.
00:00:04
Speaker 2: My name is Lauren Bride Pacheco and I've worked with Melissa Jasperson Moore for about four years.
00:00:09
Speaker 3: My father is Keith Hunter Jesperson. He's known as the Happy Face serial killer.
00:00:16
Speaker 4: My mom had just said that her and my dad were separating, which I didn't believe.
00:00:20
Speaker 3: I wanted to keep like you guys as baby pictures, and he chucked out all up. There was just this thing that people said in the family. They would say, Oh, that's just Keith, that's just how Keith is, and it seemed to be acceptable.
00:00:36
Speaker 2: One of the few people that Keith opened up to about his childhood was psychologist Al Carlisle.
00:00:42
Speaker 4: Any learning problems, No, not really for you intelligence.
00:00:46
Speaker 5: I'm very intelligent, but I just didn't adapt myself to it.
00:00:49
Speaker 3: I got pregnant my freshman year, so right after I found out is when the news hit about my dad. I was dating a guy named Nick. It was a very dysfunctional relationship, so I felt like the only option for me to break out of this was to not have the baby. A couple months later, I got a letter from my dad. He said, you're a killer, just like me. He deserved to be in prison with me.
00:01:13
Speaker 6: Yeah, the vines in the vines, well son, you don't know shine o shi oh nice.
00:01:38
Speaker 3: My dad always said that he was not like his dad and the way he disciplined me and my siblings. There was a time when I was stayed out too late and didn't come home and I worried my family, and my dad said, you know, you went past your curfew. So he made me bend over my dad and he pulled my pants down so my bum was bare, and he took off his leather belt and he started like whipping it, you know, like slapping it, so it made a slapping noise, and he kept threatening that he was going to whip me with it or spank me with it, and so I was sobbing and pleading with him not to hit me, because like the sound alone of the leather slapping was terrifying, and just being so vulnerable with your tish in the air, like I knew it was going to hurt really bad, and he didn't. He just kept toying with the idea.
00:02:36
Speaker 4: That he was going to hit me.
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Speaker 2: How old were you.
00:02:41
Speaker 3: It was at the farmhouse of six, about six years old, and he made sure that there was always the threat of being spanked, Like he would threatened to spank us, and you just needed a threaten and you'd whip up real fast. I mean, because just his size and how he made those sounds was terrifying.
00:03:03
Speaker 2: He must have known the fear.
00:03:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, he must have.
00:03:14
Speaker 2: For all of Melissa's happy childhood memories regarding her father, darker one surfaced as our journey progressed. Although he never physically hit them, Keith still managed to instill a sense of fear in Melissa and her siblings. As the saying goes, not all scars are visible. I'm Lauren Bray Pacheco. This is happy face.
00:03:52
Speaker 3: My dad would be home on the weekends, Saturday morning and Sunday morning, Like any weekend morning, we always want to wake up our dad. So we would rush the bed with my mom and dad in it, and we would jump on him and tackle us. And it just became a whole hour of tackling and tickling while he was trying to get out of bed. So we would get more and more aggressive, like with our tactics, Like I would get a further running start and run and then jump on the bed. And then I would jump on the bed and then really try to pound on my dad like because he could handle it, because you could see that he could. Oh, just a young kid. I was like five to seven or so, like really young. I just would go and jump on him and he could take him. My brother would get aggressive. I remember him like elbowing him, and then my dad like pinning him down and wrestling him. And with me, he pinned me down and started tickling me, but it was to the point of like I was gonna pay my pants, and I kept screaming I was gonna pay my pants. They kept tickling me, but it turned from like it was funny, like let you go if you're like no, really serious had to go, you know, you would let your child go, But all of a sudden, it was now like I control you, and it turned into like now I'm sobbing because I'm it's becoming painful to be tickled.
00:05:15
Speaker 6: You know.
00:05:15
Speaker 2: So you'd go from laughing to crying, yeah, and then would he stop.
00:05:21
Speaker 3: He would eventually let me go, but it was when he wanted to let me go.
00:05:25
Speaker 4: That just was his.
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Speaker 3: Way with us. Anything I was afraid of or didn't like, he made sure to push it and push me beyond my comfort, just to let me know he had control. It may sound very harmless or little to somebody else, but it was. It was a message. He was giving me a message that he controls me. I mean, there's so many is the little tiny lessons of that. It's like touching the electric fence. So we have around the perferle of the farm, we had an electric fence and I asked him, Dad, is the fence on. He's like, we'll touch it and find out. I touched it. And when you touch it, you can't let go. Your hand will let go, Like my hand I remember was on it and it was like vibrating and I couldn't release my hand because it gripped it. And he was laughing. It was all to tell me that he could do what he wants and that you were his yep.
00:06:25
Speaker 5: And I had to watch my feelings around my kids. I had to watch because if they did something wrong and made me want to feel like punishing them because I know what my dad would do to me. I feel like I had to really watch myself that I didn't allow myself. See here, I'm a murder and I've been out here and I've been doing this. I said, I've got to watch my emotions around people I love. There is, like you say, maybe not a controller, because I'm not. There are things that made setting me off, and I
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had to watch that. It was too easily done, as times where I've gotten with people friends of mine and I just sit there and said, I can't stay here. You don't see it, but I do, and I'm not going to stick around because I will do something about it.
00:07:16
Speaker 2: Eventually. After her father's capture, enter chaotic relationship with Nick, Melissa tried to find a sense of security and safety and love, just a normal life. But something was always missing. Why was that so important to you that you create this stable home life.
00:07:37
Speaker 3: Well, it actually goes back to the breakup with Nick. When I broke up with Nick, it was a relationship that I didn't want to repeat. So I made a list of all the things that weren't working for me, that were harmful. And I took a look at what my parents' relationship was and my mom's new relationship was, and I realized I didn't want to repeat that. In order to do that, I had to make a list of what wouldn't work for me. So I made this checklist and I put it in my diary. And there's this moment when I met Sam, and as he was talking, I was checking off that list in my head of all the things that I needed to ensure that I didn't follow in my mom's footsteps.
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Speaker 2: Give me an example, what was on that list.
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Speaker 3: Number One, he had to be college educated. I didn't want to live in poverty and I didn't want to be in a relationship that if I was going to have children with someone that it was unstable. Two travel the world, had a worldview. I wanted to see the world. I had this.
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Speaker 2: Stream of traveling.
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Speaker 3: Three that he was transparent and honest and I could count on them and know that everything that he says would be truthful. Those are the top ones. And I first met him. The first thing he said is he's in college and he's getting his degree in international relations. And then he already lived in Portugal for two years. So he, to me, was the best man that I had ever met in Spokane. On paper, he was everything that I needed.
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Speaker 2: The hymn Melissa refers to is Sam, her estranged husband and father of her two children. We spoke to Sam about how the relationship began and evolved, so tell me how you and Melissa first met. How old were you and where was it.
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Speaker 1: Oh, it was a while ago.
00:09:41
Speaker 7: I was twenty five or twenty six right in there, and Melissa was like twenty one, and it was pretty unique. I grew up Mormon, and so every Friday there would always be an activity at dance for singles. I remember I had just broken up with a girl and I didn't want to go out. I didn't want to go hang out with anybody, and I had two roommates and they wanted me out of the house. They're like, time fore to go do something. We're going to go to the dance. It was in West Plains in Spokane, Washington. It's a big gymnasium full of people. Knew most everybody there because it's all of my peers, the people I hanged out with, and I was kind of reluctant to even be there, but I also was enjoying the music. So I went and sat up on the stage and I was just watching everybody dance, and I was looking around the room trying to figure out if I was going.
00:10:33
Speaker 1: To date again. And then.
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Speaker 7: I remember it very clearly. Side doors of the gym opened up and beautiful blonde walked in. Everything was dark. I had never seen her before. I was very, very interested, so at that moment I decided to probably be open to dating again. I was sitting on the stage trying to be a loner, which isn't my normal personality actually, and I would just watch her mingle with some people. And then after a little while she approached me. She came up to me on the stage and she sat next to me. I was right next to the speakers, so you couldn't really hear each other. So she started trying to talk to me, and as she tried, I moved closer to her so that we could hear each other, and she started talking in my ear, and I was smitten. I asked her for her phone number, and I asked for a chance to be able to catch up with her, and she left.
00:11:44
Speaker 1: I left. I think we went to Sherry's as a group.
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Speaker 7: Usually after dances, as a collective Mormon group, you always go like to Denny's or Sherry's or something like that. And I remember the whole night, I just kind of stop thinking about her, and I didn't call her for like two or three days.
00:12:02
Speaker 1: Was that calculated? No, I was just turned nervous.
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Speaker 4: It's a glow group.
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Speaker 8: Break, no, mm hmmm.
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Speaker 2: For Melissa, Sam's greatest appeal was that he represented everything her father did not.
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Speaker 4: Were your first impressions of Sam physically, Oh, he had a goateee that was kind of long, and and he was wearing a leather jacket not normally like stylistically and maybe as girls like we all can relate to this, you're like, Oh, that's changeable, the closer changeable.
00:13:14
Speaker 2: It's really the antithesis of your father physically though too, and in terms of emotionally, your dad six foot six, Sam was probably closer to five foot six.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, he's five'.
00:13:27
Speaker 2: Six he instantly did he feel, Safe, uh, yeah because.
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Speaker 3: He wasn't pursuing. Me, well it felt like he wasn't pursuing me at, all LIKE i had to be the. Pursuer so that felt incredibly.
00:13:38
Speaker 4: Safe.
00:13:39
Speaker 3: Yeah he put my phone number in his flip phone and then he never called, me never Did AND i worked At Victoria's secret and then one day he just shows up at my.
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Speaker 1: Job so she worked on.
00:13:57
Speaker 7: The makeup side Of Victoria's, secret and SO i showed up to the makeup side AND i asked for help to like for a perfume or, something but really the goal was to get to Meet melissa and.
00:14:09
Speaker 1: SHE i don't know if she asked me or IF i asked. HER i was, like, hey can, OH i asked?
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Speaker 3: HER i remember now he, says you, know, like, hey you KNOW i was talking To, lisha your, friend and she said that you could use a good guy in your, life and do you want to go?
00:14:24
Speaker 4: OUT i said, sure and SO i gave them a.
00:14:28
Speaker 7: Day we set the date, up and then like in a few days when it was supposed to, HAPPEN i was trying to like make sure it was going to, happen and she told me that she kind of go, out like one of her friends asked her to like watch their.
00:14:40
Speaker 4: Kid SO i told him, like, oh you, KNOW i, Forgot i'm.
00:14:44
Speaker 3: Babysitting and then he THOUGHT i, was you, know making up an excuse to turn him down and not to go out with. Him AND i, said, well actually you.
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Speaker 4: Want to just come with.
00:14:51
Speaker 1: Me she, goes but you're welcome to come watch the kid with, me AND i obviously said.
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Speaker 8: Yes.
00:14:58
Speaker 3: AND i just thought it was a good. Guy and we went out To denny's where everybody hung out, like if you didn't want your day to, end you just go To denny's Or. Sherry's AND i remember we were talking about THE i don't know WHY i came, up but one of my favorite fables was The sirens, fable and so we were talking about.
00:15:16
Speaker 8: That The.
00:15:17
Speaker 4: Sirens, YES i don't know WHY i like that, fable maybe because the female house the.
00:15:23
Speaker 2: Power it's, subtle but even on their first, Date melissa's tiny exertion of control has echoes of her.
00:15:33
Speaker 7: Father we were on our date At sherry's AND i remember she did something that no other girl was capable of. DOING i really detest ranch. Dressing there was no WAY i was ever going to eat ranch. Dressing and she was eating like a piece of, chicken and she asked me to eat, it AND i told her, NO i, GO i don't like ranch.
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Speaker 1: Dressing and THEN i ate ranch.
00:15:57
Speaker 7: Dressing AND i, remember like no girl had ever had that kind of power over, me AND i found it really attractive.
00:16:04
Speaker 1: That she didn't take no for.
00:16:06
Speaker 2: Me did you guys get? Serious really?
00:16:09
Speaker 7: Quickly we, did so instead of taking her, HOME i took her back to my. Place and in The mormon, community that's not a. Normal next STEP i took her back to my, place and while we were there and we didn't do, anything we made, out but still that was.
00:16:25
Speaker 1: The fastest relationship That i've ever, had like to move that. Quickly on.
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Speaker 2: Paper sam was Everything melissa would want in a, partner but her fear of vulnerability always overshadowed her desire for.
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Speaker 3: Connection this is somebody who physically doesn't look like my, dad doesn't act like my father in any shape or, form so he felt safe in all of those. CATEGORIES i craved to have everything THAT i was missing growing, up BUT i emotionally couldn't connect to.
00:16:59
Speaker 2: It what was your fear during that?
00:17:02
Speaker 3: Time my biggest fear was that everybody would find out about my past and that it would take this life THAT i curated and make it crumble, down that it would fall, apart that EVERYTHING i worked for and survived for would fall, apart and that people would find out That i'm just like my father AND i would lose. Everything you, Know it's interesting to go back and meet with people THAT i dated in the past and then this to be a common thread THAT i was emotionally just in the relationship that they constantly had to work to find out WHAT i was. Feeling, YES i was a very emotionally removed. Person that scared, me but that was a vulnerability that was trained out of. Me IF i was vulnerable with my, dad he exploited. It IF i was vulnerable with these, boyfriends what would. Happen it scared me to think THAT i wasn't capable of, love and that's a precursor to, psychopathy THAT i could be a psychopath IF i couldn't have empathy or. Love AND i honestly didn't feel WHEN i left a lot of these, RELATIONSHIPS i didn't feel sad to leave. THEM i was relieved to leave these. Relationships so it caused me to further wonder IF i was just like my.
00:18:21
Speaker 2: Dad In, Sam melissa saw the stability she desperately, craved and his religious upbringing provided stark contrast to her father's. Crimes but in, Reality sam was very much questioning his faith and rebelling against. It melissa became part of that. Rebellion what did you know about her? Family do you? Remember?
00:18:52
Speaker 7: YEAH i remember when she first told. ME i think we were at a mom's place where you've been. Now they used to have like a trampoline in the front of the. YARD i think we were on the trampoline and we were like looking up with the. Stars that's When melissa told me who her dad, was and once AGAIN i was so. Smitten to be, HONEST i didn't really, care AND i don't THINK i understood the, magnitude like the gravity of what her father. Was AND i didn't see it as a reflection of who she. Was LIKE i would hate for somebody to ever think that my parents a reflection of. ME i, mean obviously we, are but, LIKE i don't want to be judged for.
00:19:29
Speaker 2: That when was the first Time sam said you aren't there? Emotionally when was the first time that he?
00:19:37
Speaker 3: Doubted it was always the elephant in the, room the lack of. CONNECTION i, thought if we don't acknowledge, it then it doesn't, exist and therefore everything's.
00:19:50
Speaker 2: Normal don't bring it.
00:19:52
Speaker 3: Up and so there wasn't anything verbally spoken about it until three years. Ago we had a conversation about where things were at in our marriage and that was his.
00:20:03
Speaker 2: Complaint and what did he?
00:20:05
Speaker 3: Say he, said you never look in my eyes and you never kissed, me and it really bothered.
00:20:15
Speaker 6: Him and.
00:20:18
Speaker 3: It's, true it's, true and it has nothing to do with. HIM i don't blame. Him it was nothing to do with him at. All it was everything to do with.
00:20:27
Speaker 8: Me in the freaking shish in for a, SACCO i did no you dog.
00:20:47
Speaker 2: See in what must have been one of the most surreal moments in their, marriage one, Day melissa is SAD i did to Visit.
00:21:01
Speaker 7: Keith melissa AND i were at home one, day AND i think she had either just received a letter or maybe had come across the, letter and she asked me if it was weird that she hadn't seen her, dad AND i was, LIKE i don't. KNOW i don't know if it's, Weird, army he is in prison for. Murder so, NO i don't think it's that. Weird she, goes how would you feel IF i was to go see him? Again AND i was, like whether you want to or, Not i'm here for, you and, UH i, Said we'll just think about, it and she. Did she thought about it for a little, while and then she, GOES i Think i'm gonna do, that and SO i took some time. Off we told her when we were going on a trip To, oregon and we didn't tell anyone what we were going to go, do and we ended up getting to the prison with our, kids and so we ended up like following the guards through this like may of like sales like where they would open up a gate and you open up another gate and you're kind of like following them. Through and then they brought us into this like lobby which had like couches laid, out AND i was trying to figure out how it was, working AND i was waiting for them to come get, us AND i was trying to figure, out So, melissa when you go see your, Dad i'll just stay here with the. Kids and THEN i started looking around the room and there was guards at the doors with, guns and all the men in the room were wearing denim AND i wasn't wearing. DUNIM i was, like, man that must be the style And oregon or, something so, NAIVE i, am.
00:22:42
Speaker 9: Oh.
00:22:46
Speaker 7: And THEN i started noticing that they're like pretty tied it. Up and it was when we were in the room THEN i realized that we were going to Meet melissa's dad in. PERSON i had no, Idea and like after a little, While melissa's dad came in and he's, massive like he is such a big. MAN i, MEAN i knew he was, big BUT i don't THINK i knew how big he. WAS i REMEMBER i stood, Up melissa stood, up and the kids were with, us AND i don't remember if he Hugged, melissa BUT i remember his interaction with. Me he shook my hand and he, said thank you for taking such good care of my. Daughter that was the very first thing he, said AND i was, like, OH i might be able to handle this. Guy so he sat down next to. US i think he asked us if we wanted to have the kids go play over in the play area or, not and we're, like, no we'll keep them. Here AND i wasn't very cognizant of even what my kids were enduring or even What melissa was, feeling because my anxiety level was really. HIGH i didn't know IF i had to move it like into a protective mode or like into a kindness.
00:23:52
Speaker 1: MODE i was really. DISTRAUGHT i didn't know what to.
00:23:54
Speaker 7: Do was it? Crazy it was because LIKE i wasn't
expecting it to look like, That and he was actually pretty genuine and pretty. Kind the banter back and forth Between melissa and her dad seemed kind of. Normal he asked if we wanted to go. OUTSIDE i guess there's an outside area that you could go sit. In and we just had a dialogue back and forth that was.
00:24:17
Speaker 2: Weird what's going through your mind at any? Point are you looking at this face and hearing this voice and hearing the small talk and thinking this man murdered? People?
00:24:26
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:24:26
Speaker 7: ABSOLUTELY i was able to sit next to a, horrible horrible person that could killate, women AND i wasn't able to even distinguish that that's what he. Was AND i used to consider myself pretty good at reading, people like assessing who they, are and at that very, MOMENT i realized that most it'd be easy for all of us to be.
00:24:49
Speaker 1: Prey and that blew my.
00:24:50
Speaker 7: Mind that was going through my head the entire time while he's talking To melissa as like he murdered a people.
00:25:03
Speaker 10: FROM i the creation of a serial killer By Jack. Olson my size intimidated the guards and they chained me up WHENEVER i was. MOVED i explained THAT i wasn't going to harm, anyone but they'd heard that story. Before it didn't matter how nice and POLITE i. ACTED i was assumed to be a cold blooded killer who would murder anyone he could get his hands. On this took some time to get used.
00:25:28
Speaker 2: To melissa And sam had gone to visit her father in, prison not knowing what to, expect and they left with a very surreal. Souvenir explain to me the picture BECAUSE i look at, That i'm, like that is the craziest family Portrait i've ever.
00:25:58
Speaker 7: Seen, Yeah so when, done there was an option to get a picture, taken and so we. Did we got a picture With melissa's, dad and to be honest with, you google the. Internet that will probably be the first thing that pops up is a picture Of melissa's, dad my, daughter my, son and, me and you could see the size gap of me versus, him and he's just a massive.
00:26:20
Speaker 2: Man it must have been a blessing that the kids were too.
00:26:23
Speaker 7: Small to ask oh, completely you, KNOW I melissa AND i were sensitive for a long time because people, asses how could you ever take your children around such a horrible. Person AND i think people don't understand what it was. Like the whole room was full of, children like kids were playing with their dads because their dads are coming to visit their. Children and SO i think what was stranger is the fact That melissa's, dad who murdered eight people would be in general, population which is normal. CRIMINALS i think that's the real question is how could somebody do such horrific things and be amidst people that maybe like smoked weed and they were treated.
00:27:01
Speaker 2: Equally, Eventually melissa's inability to connect With sam and to truly reciprocate his love took its.
00:27:11
Speaker 3: Toll there was
a comfort as. Roommates we got along, great and we were good. Friends we still are good, friends so it was easy to stay longer and longer in this relationship because we're such good.
00:27:25
Speaker 1: Friends BUT i.
00:27:26
Speaker 3: Knew when he brought up three years ago that he wanted someone to be passionately in love with, him that he would find, it probably with someone.
00:27:35
Speaker 2: Else you guys just weren't. Happy, YEAH i don't think.
00:27:42
Speaker 3: We if he was, honest he would say he wasn't. Happy he wouldn't say that he wasn't happy with. Me he wasn't happy with living without those things that he wanted in his.
00:27:54
Speaker 2: Life sam said. Neither he simply acknowledged a Burden keith's crimes placed On melissa and how much he'd seen her struggle to atone for, them but he never blamed HER.
00:28:09
Speaker 7: I think it has Compelled melissa to have to be harder on herself than the average. Person and we're all pretty hard on ourselves as it, Is, like take whatever you are as a person and magnify. THAT i can only imagine she's had to deal with people saying that she was collecting blood money by sharing her, story that we were, irrational bad parents by taking our kids to visit a serial killer in a. PRISON i, mean you put it in, words, yeah absolutely could build an argument to, that but when you put it into actuality of what really, happened it's the furthest thing from the. Truth our children have always come first From, melissa AND i think it's compelled her to have to over exaggerate her feelings for other, people for, herself for our, kids always kind of on the defensive to prove that she's not like her.
00:29:01
Speaker 1: Father the burden she carries must be.
00:29:04
Speaker 2: Immense and what's your take On jess person as opposed to your take On, Melissa, like if you had to be brutally honest about your take on.
00:29:13
Speaker 7: Him, so IF i was to be brutally, HONEST i would say that he definitely corrupted his family and he made it so that they were in pain and in, trauma and that pain and trauma is carried over into her future, relationships and it's made it so she's had to overcompensate to define who she, is to separate herself from who he, is and it's put her in a really difficult. Situation and to say that there wasn't an impact would not be.
00:29:40
Speaker 2: Honest What's melissa's biggest fear?
00:29:45
Speaker 7: ABANDONED i THINK i think she's afraid that she'll be alone and that she would end up being a lot like her, dad that what everyone has said is. TRUE i think that's probably her biggest. Fear but anything that's, changing, LIKE i think she's becoming way more self. Aware i've seen how strong she, was AND i really just thought she could change the, world AND i thought by her sharing her, story other people could have.
00:30:12
Speaker 9: Hope WHEN i was eighteen, NINETEEN i was, naive still naives to the world on crime and EVERYTHING i.
00:30:23
Speaker 5: WAS i was basically a
good person that wouldn't never push anything past.
00:30:31
Speaker 1: ANYTHING i would never do.
00:30:32
Speaker 7: Anything when did you stop?
00:30:33
Speaker 1: Hearing? Well my, divorce.
00:30:39
Speaker 11: The different problems with my girlfriend and trucking in the jobs and everything kind of ESCALATING i can't trust nobody around, me AND i only trust, myself and you, know.
00:30:54
Speaker 5: The cruelty of life just basically caused me to, think, well, hell.
00:31:04
Speaker 2: What would you say if you could confront jessperson on what he's? Done, okay Send melissa to his. Family if he's listening to, this what do you hope he?
00:31:14
Speaker 1: HEARS i would tell him that the way he treated his daughter.
00:31:22
Speaker 7: Complicated my, marriage Complicated melissa's, life but didn't make it so it didn't get, better and he has no control of. Anything who he is is really, insignificant and because of the experiences that we've all gone through because of, him we're actually stronger and.
00:31:43
Speaker 1: Better and it's okay that.
00:31:48
Speaker 7: He's not remorseful for what he's, done because everyone else's remorse makes up the. Difference and if he goes, away he goes away alone.
00:31:58
Speaker 1: And without.
00:32:02
Speaker 3: Everything hurts about building a life with someone and then deciding to. SEPARATE i really discredited hearing from other people when they said they went through a. Divorce it just seemed almost so casual BECAUSE i was so removed from their. Lives but the pain is actually more intense THAN i ever thought was. Possible it's Mourning, yeah it's absolutely. Grieving there's. Anger there are the five stages of grief for, sure And i've gone through all of them And i've read every BOOK i could, read and they say it takes like two years for you to feel normal. Again and it's probably very similar to someone who lost someone that they loved to death in some, ways just because you're used to the little, things the day to day things like calling after a meeting or when you get home having the, Dishes i'm all ready for, you or you know those you can lean on that person and then when you when you divorce and, separate then now you have to create a new, life a new.
00:33:10
Speaker 7: Normalcy she always talks about how she's leaned in on, me But i've always leaned in on, her like she went through such trauma and so much, pain and she found her voice even when it's not easy to. Do she still continuously puts herself in situations that most people want to.
00:33:28
Speaker 1: Do she's so, brave and watching her be, brave As i'll be be. BRAVE i like.
00:33:39
Speaker 5: KIDS i like my, kids BUT i wasn't really a family. MAN i really didn't want to be the family.
00:33:44
Speaker 1: MAN i didn't want THE i didn't want to end up, like, well.
00:33:50
Speaker 5: Put my kids through WHAT i went, through and HERE i am putting, through putting them through worse and WHAT i went, through you know a lot of things because you're they have to be raised with the idea that dad's.
00:34:00
Speaker 8: A, killer.
00:34:01
Speaker 3: Murderer my fear still to this, day is That i'm incapable of loving in the way that people expect me to love. Them you, Know sam swears THAT i probably could love him the way he wants to be, loved BUT i don't. BELIEVE i just don't want to lie to. PEOPLE i don't want to feel like a fraud of living too many years feeling like a, fraud AND i feel like the best policies just to be up front and let people decide if this works for them or. Not and so With, Sam i've been really transparent with him to let him know that this is WHERE i, stand this.
00:34:39
Speaker 2: Is WHAT i, am and my level of being able to. Give is it about, control? Though is your fear of love about losing, control about letting, go about having something have power over?
00:34:53
Speaker 3: You, Absolutely because if you fall in, love you give up your, loverage you give Up you can be blindsided in a hot, moment AND i don't want to ever be that, vulnerable to be, blindsided AND i just don't want to risk that.
00:35:12
Speaker 2: Again on the Next Happy, Face melissa faces her greatest fears and her father's.
00:35:26
Speaker 3: Demons but it seems now that you want the world to know who you, are Not melissa more but the daughter of The Happy Face.
00:35:35
Speaker 2: Killer i've created a monster in.
00:35:40
Speaker 3: You this is WHY i don't lead these.
00:35:45
Speaker 1: Letters Happy face is a production Of How Stuff.
00:35:51
Speaker 10: Works executive producers Are Melissa, Moore Lauren, Bright Pacheco Mangesha, ticketur And Will. Pearson supervising producer is No. Brown music By Claire, Campbell Paige campbell And hope for A Golden. Summer story editor Is Matt. Riddle audio editing By Chandler mays And Noel. Brown assistant editor Is Taylor. Chicogne special thanks To Phil, stanford the publishers of The Oregonian, newspaper and The carlisle.
00:36:17
Speaker 4: Family