النص الكامل لحلقة Behind the Prompt: Data Centres, Water, and Australia's Energy Crunch with Tim Prosser

reliability gap and stabilize prices. 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:34.079 And this will help support a resilient energy system for Australia. 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:38.079 This is a topic we're going to have to monitor very closely over the short term. 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:50.720 The rapid build-out of data centers is projected to significantly increase electricity demand, which, when combined with rising network costs and the removal of government subsidies, will drive up energy prices. 00:05:50.720 --> 00:06:07.040 Since energy is a major component of what economists refer to as the consumer price index, these higher prices will sustain elevated inflation, thereby compelling the Reserve Bank to keep interest rates high to bring inflation back within target. 00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:09.519 So for anyone with a mortgage, take note. 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:14.079 Yeah, or anyone who doesn't have renewable energy powering their home or business. 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:22.000 I guess the traditional response from most businesses has been, well, if we've got an emissions problem, then why don't we just grab offsets? 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:32.800 And so as we move into this new world of data centers being powered by renewable energy, why is it that matching renewable generation in real time is becoming the new gold standard? 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:37.360 This is really getting to the nub of the threading the needle challenge we we have here, Dan. 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:42.720 About 97% of emissions reporting frameworks align with the greenhouse gas protocol. 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:47.680 This protocol defines the standards for scope to emissions reporting, as we all know. 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:56.639 These standards are currently undergoing review in part to strengthen integrity and transparency with potential implementation as early as 2027. 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:59.199 We're already in 26, so wow, it's coming. 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:10.000 Many current net zero strategies rely on annual offsets, as you mentioned, which means data centers continue to consume vast amounts of fossil fuel electricity from the local grid. 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:18.079 By contrast, real-time or 24-7 hourly matching aligns electricity consumption with clean generation every hour. 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:25.600 This approach reduces dependence on expensive fossil fuel peaking plants and mitigates grid price volatility. 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:36.959 Leading organizations, including Google and Microsoft, are advancing towards 24-7 decarbonization with a target horizon of around 2030. 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:43.439 This shift moves towards genuine physical decarbonisation of operations. 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:49.040 Time-stamped certificates are being developed to support this standard, particularly in Europe. 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:57.839 These certificates incentivize battery storage and grid flexibility, which are essential to truly greening the grid. 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:11.839

And as a follow-on from that, on what you're mentioning, I'd love to understand how data centers can go from being these passive power consumers to almost acting as virtual power plants. 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:13.360 Great question, Loretto. 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:19.199 We're moving away from passive concrete boxes in industrial estates to a new beginning. 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:24.160 So a sustainable data center as an active value-generating grid asset. 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:36.000 We're not there yet, but to achieve this, data centers must evolve through large-scale energy storage that helps coordinate with the power system so it becomes an active participant in the community and the grid. 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:50.960 So data centers can store excess renewable energy in large-scale batteries, solar soakers, if you like, and release it during peak demand, thereby stabilizing the grid rather than contributing to peak stress in the evening. 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:55.200 Now moving on to how we use AI to optimize the operation. 00:08:55.200 --> 00:09:05.759 Advanced AI can help shift non-urgent workloads to periods of high renewable output and orchestrate participation in virtual power plants or VPPs. 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:23.519 This enables facilities to generate additional revenues by providing essential, what the industry referred to as frequency control, so balancing the grid services and to help lower peak demand load, again, particularly in the evening, and operate as large, flexible energy hubs. 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:29.840 Now, just to give an illustrative case study, your listeners might be familiar with Google DeepMind. 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:48.480 Today, one of its core applications in data center operations uses AI to optimise cooling for overall energy use, reducing both power consumption, in some cases as much as 40%, and operating costs while preserving the reliability of the data center. 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:52.879 Which is pretty phenomenal results in a relatively short period of time. 00:09:52.879 --> 00:10:01.200 On the flip side, there's uh a few Australian mayors who are increasingly raising alarms about water scarcity issues. 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:06.960 And we know that uh traditional data center air cooling is very water intensive. 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:10.799 How critical is the shift to direct-to-chip liquid cooling? 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:14.799 Yeah, you're right at the bleeding edge of the uh the industry conversation at the moment, Dana. 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:16.879 A brief context for your listeners. 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:32.320 In late 2025, the mayors of Melbourne, Sydney, and Hobart join forces with other global city leaders to launch a forward-looking initiative under the C40 Cities Network ahead of COP 30 in Bilem. 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:45.919 Some of the key goals of the initiative are to establish shared standards, transparency and robust environmental protections and industry collaboration to align data center development with the Paris Agreement. 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:53.360 The shift towards liquid cooling is increasingly critical in terms of efficiency and reliability. 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:56.480 Now to the water and energy considerations. 00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:59.200 The city of Sydney has highlighted a potential risk. 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:08.080 Data centers could consume up to 2% of the city's drinking water by 2030, absent of any additional water efficient strategies. 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:12.799 So bear in mind we rely on the desalination plant in New South Wales and Sydney. 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:15.440 15% of our water comes from the desalination plant. 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:17.759 So if you link that, that's a problem. 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:28.879 Traditional evaporative cooling, while energy efficient, relies on substantial drinking potable water streams, raising sustainability concerns in water-scarce urban contexts. 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:32.559 And Australia is recognized as the driest inhabited continent on earth. 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:48.399 And innovative directors chip liquid cooling presents a compelling alternative with estimated water use reductions in the order of about 50%, enabling higher density cooling without demanding fresh water resources. 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:49.919 That's really Tim. 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:54.480 How accessible are these advanced cooling technologies in Australia? 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:57.279 They're coming often by necessity. 00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:05.759 Some of the infrastructure that is installed in order to enable AI necessitates better cooling methods. 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:11.279 IT equipment becomes very, well, it it becomes very risky to operate when it doesn't work properly. 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:12.960 And if it's not cooled, it may not work. 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:17.360 So some of the traditional cooling methods are not allowing it to operate effectively. 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.200 So it's just not an incremental option. 00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:20.960 It's something that's been driven by the technology. 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:25.120 That actually gets us thinking a little bit about asset lifecycle, right? 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:31.200 So how long can these assets be in use, remaining um relevant for the current technology demands? 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.679 What can we expect from a lifecycle perspective when things are changing so quickly? 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:40.320 It's a very current question, one that I know the industry is motivated by. 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:41.200 Let's call it that. 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:46.480 We're talking about constructing assets which should have a lifetime of at least 20 years. 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:52.240 And I don't need to tell you or your listeners that the AI horizon, you know, six months feels like affinity. 00:12:52.240 --> 00:13:02.320 So the challenge at the moment is there's a lot of infrastructure being

commissioned or built into some of these data centers that can cater for any eventuality. 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:07.600 So there's a lot of additional stuff going in, which we know probably won't get used. 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:09.039 Yeah, it's really tricky. 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:13.440 And particularly when you're looking at the difference between AI training versus AI inference. 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.879 We don't really have so much focus on AI training in Australia. 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:18.799 It's mostly in the US or overseas. 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:24.720 But we're about to see a significant investment wave in AI inference in Australia. 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:36.559 I know a number of data center operators have already partnered with, say, OpenAI, to have sovereign-based locally hosted versions of that to then incorporate Interim into their secure enterprise environment. 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:40.000 So that's that's in play at the moment, but it's it's a tricky one. 00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:45.759 And then from an investor perspective, is there a risk the demand might plateau or might decrease? 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:54.639 And for the investors, how can they distinguish between a sustainable long-term asset and potentially what will could become a stranded asset? 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:55.360 Yeah. 00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:00.480 Um I think the first response is if if we don't think we're invested in data centers, listen again. 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:03.200 Um, and that's how I'm going to frame my answer. 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:06.720 Investment in data centers is a global momentum driver. 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:13.200 It's driving a lot of value creation in every aspect of every industry and every economy. 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:17.600 And it's frequently embedded within specialist commercial property portfolios. 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:21.759 Traditionally, these assets have provided long-term dependable returns. 00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:26.720 However, the AI era is redefining that risk return landscape. 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:37.840 For many listeners, exposure to data center assets may be embedded already in your superannuation portfolios via commercial property holdings or international technology investments and the like. 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:45.200 AI-enabled data center asset class still has ground to cover before the risk and return stability are fully established. 00:14:45.200 --> 00:15:00.879 Nonetheless, industry observers suggest AI-enabled data centers can deliver substantial lifetime value with potential earnings in the vicinity of $10 to $20 billion per gigawatt of capacity over their lifespan, though quite a big number. 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:07.519 In the Australian context, investment should prioritize assets that demonstrate resilience beyond AI pipe. 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:12.399 Sustainable data centers differentiate through energy efficiency and design. 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:23.519 So they pursue low power usage effectiveness or PUE in the industry, targets to implement end-of-use efficiency measures across the facility lifecycle. 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:30.879 They also invest in renewable energy procurement and they secure long-term, verifiable renewable energy supply. 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:34.159 They also help with grid responsiveness capabilities. 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:47.840 So they enhance flexibility with integrated energy storage, batteries, virtual power plants to monetize those grid services and create additional revenue streams, even during periods of lower compute demand. 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:52.480 And then finally, diversified tenancy, and this is probably a really important point. 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:59.360 Avoid over-reliance on single high-density AI workloads, so all your eggs in one basket. 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:05.440 Diversified tenant mix with strong ESG commitments helps mitigate the risk. 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:12.960 Conversely, assets lacking verifiable green credentials or reliant on single high-density AI demand profiles. 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:21.919 So think about AI factory AI training factories for one customer with one chipset or technology solution may confront stranded asset risk. 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:27.919 So the um a bit of an industry note, um, I was on a Bloomberg NEF session last week. 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:45.919 So while we discussed the data center investments, it's worth noting that Bloomberg New Energy Finance reported global investment in data centers at 441 billion US dollars in 2025, with projections to rise to around 712 billion per year by 2028. 00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:47.360 Yeah, fascinating. 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:55.279 One of the areas that we're also very interested in is how can they be utilized for community benefit as well. 00:16:55.279 --> 00:17:01.919 And so we've seen in Paris there's examples of using data centers to uh heat community swimming pools. 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:10.240 What are you seeing as some of the most viable waste heat opportunities for Australian facilities, particularly in urban areas like Sydney or Melbourne? 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:10.799 Yes. 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:15.680 Um in the 2024 Paris Olympics, a data center won. 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:28.559 There's over 11,000 in the world, in the city recycled its waste heat to help warm the water in the Olympic Aquatics Centre by converting excess thermal energy into hot water, heating the pool and surrounding buildings. 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.839 District heating networks are less common in Australia than in Europe. 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:37.359 We live in a warmer climate, but select commercial hubs present opportunities for Australia to think about this. 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:51.759 In Sydney, the Western Sydney erytropolis, near the yet-to-be-opened WSI airport, there's a strong candidate for channeling industrial waste heat into co-located manufacturing and light agricultural facilities. 00:17:51.759

--> 00:18:12.960 In Melbourne, cooler climate further enhances the potential for residential district heating, achievable through collaborations between data centers and energy service companies to manage the infrastructure or by supplying heat directly to near nearby industrial users, converting that waste heat byproduct into a revenue stream. 00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:20.240 So what are some of the um trends that you're seeing in regards to location of data centers in Australia? 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:24.160 Where are you seeing data centers being located or planned for the future? 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:34.400 90-95% of the large-scale high availability data center services are based in Sydney and Melbourne. 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:42.960 What's interesting about those locations is both of those locations are heavily reliant today, still on both the grid and fossil fuel generations behind that. 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:47.680 So a lot of our cloud compute is quite dirty on a global scale today. 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.519 People don't like me saying that, but that's true. 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:59.359 We we need to clean that up quickly by choosing some cleaner locations and providing cleaner alternatives in Australia so people can make suitable actions based on that knowledge. 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:16.319 So then um I guess there's a bit of a tension between locating a data center in a renewable energy zone and being close to the workforce in less than ideal grid mix situation. 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:19.839 Yeah, this is another threading the needle question, Loreto. 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:28.000 The placement of data centres is shaped by three core basic factors: um, reliable access to power, water, and fibre, those three things. 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:36.880 In practice, supply resilience constrains the viable locations, so where those three services intersect and multiple sources of those intersect. 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:45.279 So as the high availability or resilience requirements come on our technology, they need multiple backup sources of those three inputs. 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:52.799 So policymakers should pursue locational coordination, tailoring incentives to the data center functions. 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.240 For your listeners' benefit, not every data center is the same. 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.839 There are different um they host different services. 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:05.680 So, for example, co-location, cloud services, AI training, AI inference, that there are others. 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:17.359 To your earlier point around architecting and knowing exactly what you're going to be using it for helps with the sustainable outcomes by reducing that redundant infrastructure we we spoke about earlier. 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:34.319 Um low latency co-location services, that's maybe a bit of a bit of a technical term, but um will benefit from urban proximities near the users, the consumers of this technology, um, to minimize

latency and avoid streaming disruptions. 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:40.319 So remember how frustrating in the middle of a cliffhanger in a Netflix binge you get a buffering situation? 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:41.039 Not great. 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:58.480 So conversely, hyperscale facilities supporting AI training or crypto mining, for example, are less distance sensitive and are well positioned in renewable energy zones, like, for example, the Hunter Central Coast region in New South Wales and there are others in Australia. 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:07.440 So leveraging the REZs can help reduce the transmission losses of getting that renewable energy to city urban centres. 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:14.880 To address workforce and fibre connectivity barriers in the regions, because they're not populated and they don't have great fibre connectivity, maybe. 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:22.559 Governments could establish dedicated hubs that offer expedited planning processes and favorable land incentives. 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:31.039 I'd keep an eye on that point because the federal government are about to release some policy guidelines in exactly this space in the next month or so. 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:32.559 So keep an eye out for that. 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:37.839 So some of the key takeaways for sustainability-minded stakeholders. 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:46.559 Align data center sighting with resilient, diversified power and fiber sources to bolster reliability and reduce environmental risk. 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:50.559 Differentiate incentives by data center function. 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.839 And maybe this is something that this community can help with. 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:59.759 So when we know what the solution is going to be used for, we can better design the solution, and that helps optimize energy. 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:02.640 Use and support renewable integration. 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:11.279 Consider REZs for large-scale energy-intensive workloads to maximize renewable access and minimize transition loss. 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:16.240 I've yet to see that really effectively done in Australia, but people are certainly asking that question. 00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:22.880 An investment in regional planning hubs to accelerate green infrastructure deployment and address grid constraints. 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:28.720 And finally, monitor and mitigate curtailment by strengthening grid interconnections. 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:35.119 So this is quite a technical engineering kind of answer, but accelerating the storage and demand response solutions in our deployments. 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:35.920 Thank you, Tim. 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:45.920 I feel like we all know a lot more about data centers and the role that sustainability are going to be playing over the foreseeable future. 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:53.359 There's absolutely a lot of gaps that need to be filled in order for this to stay aligned with Australia's and a lot of other countries. 00:22:53.359 --> 00:23:01.279 A couple of other questions that we'd like to ask you about based on the previous conversations that we've had with you. 00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:07.920 So you've long advocated for green ops within tech teams and moving from slogans to data-driven accountability. 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:18.480 What specific metrics should sustainability professionals look for to ensure that their supply chain risk exposure isn't increasing due to the increasing usage of data centers? 00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:20.079 Yes, absolutely, Dan. 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:23.200 I'm very glad to hear you've been paying attention. 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:36.400 To assess true risk, look well beyond the glossy annual net zero claims and demand metrics that demonstrate real operational resilience and tangible decarbonisation. 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:40.240 And this probably isn't limited to technology or data centers. 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:44.079 This is probably a broad offering across the sustainability field. 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:49.119 So listeners might want to consider several, if not all, of the six suggestions. 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.720 24-7 carbon-free energy or CFE. 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:57.279 Does energy use align with clean generation on an hourly basis? 00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:02.720 Or does the organization rely on offsets we mentioned earlier while burning fossil fuels at night? 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:10.880 Additionally, are they underwriting new emphasis on new renewable energy projects via PPAs or similar mechanisms? 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:18.640 Or are they merely purchasing certificates often for infrastructure built many, many years ago without funding new capacity? 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.920 They could also consider demand flexibility. 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:34.240 So can IT workloads be shifted or can on-site batteries be employed to avoid peak grid pricing and reduce the strain on the system and also the high carbon intensity energy periods? 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:40.240 Fourthly, water usage effectiveness, or WUE is the metric. 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:46.160 Is water consumption minimized relative to rising scarcity and industry benchmarks? 00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:50.960 And a point that's probably not unfamiliar to listeners, activity-based location metrics. 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:57.680 Apply location-specific metrics across all products and services rather than relying on aggregated figures. 00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:00.880 And my favorite, curiosity-driven verification. 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:05.440 So ask probing questions until verifiable facts and robust data emerge. 00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:08.640 A point that really frustrates many on the receiving end. 00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:09.920 Yeah, thanks, Tim. 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:19.759 And just on that, actually, I know we talked about this when we talked about digital sustainability and decision making in the IT procurement process. 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:28.480 Is there

anything specific that you would call out to Australian ASX listed companies if they do want to reduce their carbon footprint today? 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:35.279 Are there any recommendations on what they can implement in their IT procurement when it comes to data centers? 00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:37.200 Yeah, uh that's a big question. 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:46.000 There are many depends to that question, which you know, what industry they're in, what what the strategic ambition is around sustainability, lots of um precursors. 00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:51.839 But firstly, a bit of an insight that you and I'm sure listeners are aware of, but it helps set the foundation. 00:25:51.839 --> 00:26:01.440 Approximately 80% of group one entities currently required to disclose their non-financial climate information in Australia starting this year are not ASX listed. 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:08.720 Most of these reporting entities are privately held or listed overseas, which has implications for governance and reporting standards. 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:12.000 So it's it's a much broader challenge than just the ASX. 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:21.839 Now to your question, the the most consequential shift in the obligation for data center and cloud providers is to align with the Australian sustainable finance taxonomy. 00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:27.519 This entails operating without on-site fossil fuel combustion, so no diesel generators. 00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:40.799 I I'm seeing planning applications for large data centers at the moment going with 800 plus diesel generators right now, maximizing energy efficiency, so targeting low power usage effectiveness, sourcing 100%. 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:52.799 That's genuine, 100% renewable energy on a 24-7 basis, not based on annual offsets which wash out the integrity of that metric. 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:55.279 Some strategic procurement guidance. 00:26:55.279 --> 00:27:11.279 So prioritized power purchase agreements that fund new renewable energy projects, um, additionality, we call it, and aim for 24-7 carbon-free energy matching rather than relying on non-local standard um energy uh annual offsets. 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:18.079 So no longer is it um allowed to buy uh a rec that's produced in Iceland for something that was built 30 years ago. 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:20.079 That's not the game of the future. 00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:36.799 So by concentrating on new local renewable energy generation and continuous carbon-free energy, um, digital infrastructure investments will actively contribute towards towards Australia's energy transition rather than merely absorb existing clean grid capacity. 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:38.160 So really important point. 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.200 Um a bit of context and implications for this. 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:59.680 This this framework reinforces accountable climate disclosures beyond the ASX listed population, and specifically for data centers and cloud providers, the transition to 24-7 carbon-free operation represents both a compliance obligation and an opportunity to advance decarbonization. 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.519 Tim, this has been so helpful, so insightful. 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:13.839 We'd really love for you to give us a summary of the takeaway that you want our listener to have, and then a couple of calls to action that they can follow up, having listened to this interview. 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:14.880 Yeah, thanks, Dan. 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:16.240 I'll be brief. 00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:19.119 Be sure to visualize the digital emissions. 00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:23.279 I talk about digital sustainability and green ops, very passionate about that. 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:28.480 Push for rapid, renewable, and grid-friendly tech. 00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:37.839 Adopt 24-7 decarbonization initiatives and projects, and invest in efficient cooling and storage and assess long-term asset risks. 00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:39.519 And that's about it, really, Dan. 00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:44.319 I think there's if people have lasted this far in the podcast, I think that we've got them on board. 00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:48.799 But really go and have a chat to your IT team and bring them along for this journey. 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:50.079 Don't do this in isolation. 00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:51.839 This this is a big challenge. 00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:53.680 I couldn't have summed it up better. 00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:55.440 We love having you on the podcast. 00:28:55.839 --> 00:28:59.680 I just want to acknowledge as well that this is a highly technical topic. 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:02.160 It's daunting, it's confusing. 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:05.759 And to add to that, it's changing every single day. 00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:21.039 So I can completely empathize with people in industry, whether they are sustainability leaders, ESG practitioners that are in charge of the measurement or even employees of data center companies, would be so overwhelmed with this topic. 00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:30.559 So I just want to thank you because you are doing so much to bring the uh information, the knowledge, but also decoding it for a lot of people. 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.680 If people wanna, you know, ask you for help. 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:35.920 So are you open for chats about the topic? 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:37.279 Sure, absolutely. 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:42.960 Um I would say embarking on this space, it's like an overnight success 20 years in the making. 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:49.920 You know, I I've worked in the technology industry for more than 20 years, specifically in sustainability and climate tech the last three or four years. 00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:54.240 I'm seeing a lot of challenge and opportunity in equal measure. 00:29:54.240 --> 00:30:00.160 I'm certainly open to, and I have a calendar session for no commitment kind of initial chats with people. 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:04.079 Um, go to my set website, sustainabilitydigital.com. 00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:14.720 But I would highly recommend listeners that are in the sustainability domain that don't yet have a technology offsider to make sure they connect with their technology team. 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:17.759 I keep repeating that in my previous two podcasts with you guys. 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:22.960 I would highly recommend again the book recommendation I made last um episode. 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:27.920 Again, for those listening, Sustainable IT Playbook for Technology Leaders. 00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:33.839 It does have a technology-specific audience in mind, so it's less tailored to sustainability practitioners. 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:41.920 But if you can be the referral into your technology team for that book, I wouldn't say it's a grab and go and read on the beach because it's about three kilos. 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:53.519 It's a really heavy book, but it has some fantastic case studies, probably 25, 30 global case studies of companies that have gone through this journey, tried and tested various um sustainability programs. 00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:57.839 There are a whole bunch of open source frameworks and tools and things in the book. 00:30:57.839 --> 00:30:59.920 I'm I'm partway through reading it myself. 00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:05.839 It's 850 pages mine, but I am very confident the more I'm reading this book that you just got to read it. 00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:06.960 Yeah, thanks, Tim. 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:09.920 We really appreciate you coming on the podcast. 00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:12.000 Uh we love chatting with you. 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.160 And look, third time on the podcast may not be the last. 00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:19.200 So um again, keep doing the great work that you're doing. 00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:20.319 And thanks again for coming. 00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:21.119 Thanks, Loretta. 00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:21.759 Thanks, Dan. 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:22.319 Great to be here. 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:23.119 Thanks, Dev. 00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:28.319 This was Green Fix with your hosts Loretta Gutierrez and Dan Levington. 00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:33.440 You can get your Green Fix every two weeks on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Pocket Cast.