النص الكامل لحلقة Inside Halfords: How the UK’s Biggest Garage Chain Is Preparing for an Electric Future

nicely into the obvious question, because w it's it's now become an absolute truism, hasn't it, that we're going through bigger changes than any of us have old enough to have experienced before in the industry. You'd probably have to have been around hundred odd years ago when the industry first started, wouldn't you? And as somebody responsible for quality and policy and so on, you're in the vanguard of that, aren't you? making sure that Half's auto centres can assimilate these changes. And tell me a little bit about that, the new technologies, EV, autonomous, driver assistance systems and so on. So certainly you've got to have the ability to go out there and experience it. To talk to the people that are right in the middle of it. Yeah, the people that create these technologies. Being able to research the information. To be able to then provide the guidance to an organization the size of ours, to then think about well, what what does our future strategy need to look like? What does it need to include? And of course within that you've got of course, as we say about you know, we've got the technology, the the nuts and bolts, if you like. But then it's the equipment that goes with it. It's the skills of the people that are being required. required to work on these things. It's the environment that you're working within. It's no secret that we're very much moving towards an electrified future. That changes the makeup of a garage. It changes the environment that that vo that vehicle is worked upon in. And of course within all of that you've you've got your own piece of work to do to make sure that your company is is up to date and is able to do that. You then utilise or you use that knowledge and experience then help to then guide with the automotive sector. So that's where working with external businesses, external partners like, the SM MT, the IMI, the the driver and vehicle standards agency, MOT, they need Our advice, as much as we need theirs to help shape what needs to be done in automotive. I think we'll naturally come onto the sort of regulatory environment in a second. But what you've just alluded to 'cause we've always got to look for the opportunities, haven't we? I mean the threats obviously and it's natural to sort of think, well, okay, an electric car's got a lot less moving parts and in time batteries will become smaller and lighter and more efficient. And therefore the the the weight issues which currently create problems with tires and And suspension wear will and brake wear. With regenerative braking, you aren't using the brakes so much. So some of that will naturally develop away. But you've got the opportunity for people who traditionally would never have considered an automotive environment, you're talking about a different environment, aren't you? That that could bring different talent and different people into the industry. No absolutely. You can get very depressed about the automotive sector if you start thinking about as you as you rightly say, what are we gonna do when we haven't got any spark plugs or any oil to replace and so on? a few years ago I remember talking to you about it, talking about the fork in the road. Those people that operate garages and so on in in automotive, particularly in the aftermarket, having to make a decision which do you go left or you go right? Do you carry on doing what you've always done, d you know, for a short period of time before you perhaps retire? Or do you diversify and start thinking about the future and what you need in order to do all of that? Thankfully we we Course made the right decision. We knew the way that the automotive was going and we knew we needed to start thinking much further ahead in terms of our strategy. You were early adopters of getting people qualified to work on electric vehicles. And that's an interesting thing to kind of reflect on because you were preparing for what's coming. Which at the time, I mean that that's a significant investment to make for something that at that point in time was not going to realise you any immediate income, wasn't it? No, that's right. And I think back it was twenty sixteen, nearly nearly ten years ago when we started it was, yeah delivering E V level two. Yeah. But you know what? That that was that was never gonna return an investment in twenty sixteen. But what it did was it educated the stakeholders, the decision makers, the the business that is Halford's to realise that this is what's coming down the line. I look back on it now and I think, did we do that too early? Because back in twenty sixteen, you think about the E Vs on the road back then, there were a few Teslas, there were mainly Toyota hybrids, Prius and things like that. Maybe the odd leaf or two, but nothing like the quantity of what we've got today. So it wasn't easy, trust me, to to to get that investment to set those training academies up and buy the vehicles in and write the training courses to get approved by the IMI and so it wasn't easy. But thankfully, Halford's has always been a business. It's always been led by people. That have that entrepreneurial spirit to think about the customers, I always think about it, and certainly we've thought about it very much, that we need to transition with our customer base. But we need to be slightly ahead of that. So as our customer base transitions to EV, if we're not ready for that, we're gonna miss out. Whilst the UK private car buyer is still taking their time with buying EV and converting, the fleet side has already done so. And that's one of the reasons why we needed to do what we do, because we've got a very big relationship with all the major fleet manufacturers within the the UK. Well I I guess policy has something to do with that, doesn't it? I mean it's there are bigger advantages to the company car user or the you know than there are at the moment to the f the private buyer. But it's changing, isn't it? Because literally as we speak, there's a flood of

new products coming to the market, an awful lot of them Chinese of course. If you look at the legacy manufacturers, I suppose they're all at slightly different stages. But, you've got the likes of my whole firm BMW, who have got their whole new class coming out. Renault, an also an old company I used to work for actually, of found their feet, haven't they? And yeah, I I see that they're working with Ford now. So there's a few that, are really on it. But the Chinese product that's coming, I d I think there's a day goes by that you don't read in one of the industry bulletins that such and such a group has taken up such and such a Chinese brand in and and you can't blame them. that there's there's big opportunities. look it sounds to me like the changes, the technical changes and so on, scare you and excite you in equal measure to a degree. You put it a very good way actually because i in order excitement and s and being scared, I Two emotions that are actually not that far away from each other, you know? No. Listen, I I look at the future I look at I look at the present and I look at the future as one of massive opportunity. Yeah. You know? I'm not one of those people that it's all, you know, well what are we gonna do? For me it's well you know, it's up to us to determine what we're going to do. We are driven by our consumer, we're driven by our industry, and it's up to us to provide that service to our customer base. So therefore we have to invest in the future. We have to invest in skills, equipment, look ahead to see where that's coming from and make damn sure that we're able to do it, you know? Because otherwise we stand the risk of being left behind. And, you know, you made the point earlier about tires and and brakes, and it's a great point to make. You think about regulation and O T. There was a lot of data about the changes to r O T scheme a few few few years back. And a and a lot of that research said that E Vs would wear out tyres faster than ICE vehicles. And The thing with all of that is you you've got to be able to separate to use a Trumpism, fake news from reality. Yeah. You know? To be able to again provide that guidance. You know, people look to to us at Halfords now for direction, for advice. Yeah. So we've got to be in it to win it, you know? It's not that many years ago that I used to attend these industry events and we'd be sat at the back of the room listening. Yeah. I'm really proud of the fact that now we're not just sitting at the front of the room, we're actually driving that conversation. Well let's talk a little bit about that because it's natural in your role that you you're you're both inward and outward facing. And you probably more than anybody in in the organization is responsible for putting Halford's voice into the debates. And so tell us a little bit about because I know you work with the SMMT and y y you still do work with the IMI. But tell us a bit about those external engagements. Yeah, so I I was lucky enough

to be asked to attend some S SMMT committees well, I mean nearly probably ten years ago now, by our then CEO, Andy Randall. And it was a a a completely new stage of my career. You know, you talk about career moments, you know. And that was a moment in my career history of being exposed to the overwhelming world of automotive and and all of the other part, the other companies that are out there both in the aftermarket and the and the OEM world. And as I say, back then it was very much, listening and researching and taking lots of notes. But over the years as as we've moved from the back to the front, you know, I became chair of the SMMT aftermarket committee two years ago. And again that enabled me to start to set the agenda, working side by side with the SMMT about how we can, you know, raise the profile of of the aftermarket, the aftermarket in terms of the independent aftermarket. And again, I I take that on as a as a responsibility, Yeah. But doing it on behalf of Halfords, Halfords is now here. People come to us for that direction and I love to be a part of that. And now that my two years as chair has come to an end, I've I've just joined the the executive board, which gives me another opportunity now to to raise that profile even more. So for me, I I think about the future of aftermarket and OEM as being a single future. OEMs and aftermarket have not necessarily always got on well. there's always been a bit of a them in us. And it's interesting our relationship because you've you've obviously have very much an OEM background. Yeah, yeah. My entire career has been in aftermarket. But I see the future as being one of collaboration. It's funny, when I first took over at the IMI, one of our good friends, colleagues at the Independent Garage Association said to me, I I don't know where you stand because you know, Burnley had an OEM background. I said to him, you know. Don't forget I used to sell a hundred million pounds worth of parts a year to the independent aftermarket. Yeah. So there is a relationship. It's all about where the line is drawn. at one time it was about the OEMs moving from the naught to three year into the four to six year park and and that's where the sort of battleground was and and and now it 'cause it includes the seven to ten and 'cause we've got a much older park these days and everything else. I've always firmly believed that there's a symbiotic relationship there. I never had that sort of cloistered kind of I'm an OEM man and down with the independence. Far from it. I think the independents have a massive role to play and and and obviously a big part of our membership at the IMI was people from that sector. It's really important though that you are there representing that voice. I mean look, what you've got we've got what, thirty million vehicles on the road or thereabouts, haven't we, in the UK? And we've got to absolutely be on top of what's coming and and and what is here. I mean we'll talk about that, but I mean 'cause I know you're very actively involved working with the D VSA around policy on you would be naturally, wouldn't you, on on MOT and how it embraces new technology, driver assistance systems and so on. But at the same time, we're g those ICE vehicles are going to be around for decades to come, aren't they? You and I were having a private conversation earlier, weren't we? And we were sort of saying quite often you do a double take when you see a car on the road and you look and think, that's got an O three plate on it or something and it looks in pristine condition. I mean cars are built well, aren't they, these days? Look at the end of the day, y you just made the point. Cars are so much more reliable now than what they ever have been. Doesn't mean to say they don't need to be maintained though. And, you know, the idea of a car that can look after itself and and all the rest of it, you know, cars are incredibly advanced, but they still need maintenance, they still need servicing, they still need an owner's responsibility on the driver to make sure that car is safe. So it it's therefore vital that, you know, you have a really strong automotive sector in the UK that is suitably skilled and capable to do The work on whatever type of vehicle and whatever propulsion method it has when it comes into your workplace. That's where I see Halford's is. Doesn't matter whether it's petrol, diesel, electric, hybrid, we should be able to serve whatever the needs of that consumer is. Well that's interesting because that as we speak, it's an interesting time that we've seen Donald Trump very much water down the so-called cafe regulations. I mean, I think if you go back probably as far back as the nineteen seventies. Actually America was one of the first countries that started to look at environmental re and I think largely led by California. But California led the way, but that's where the cafe regulations came from, didn't they? And they were the first to introduce catalyzers and so on, and for a long time the fifty-five mile an hour speed limit and all that kind of stuff. So it's a big deal that they've that they've robe. I think they've gone from requiring the average new car to do something like fifty miles per gallon in twenty thirty five to twenty nine miles to the gallon, which is a big, big difference, isn't it? You know, that and and they've sort of and lots of the domestic OEMs are steering away from EV to go back into gas guzzlers and so on. Then we've got the EU and I think we've both seen I haven't seen big headlines, but I've certainly seen headlines saying that the EU is is going to change its approach in twenty thirty, which includes embracing e fuels and things like that. And of course as the UK's biggest repair chain, you've got to embrace all of that, haven't you? Absolutely. But then, you you just to r you talk about Trump and and and obviously the the the the work that the things that he's doing. I heard last week that he was really

excited by K cars in Japan. the little tiny six hundred C C group of vehicles and and he was going to make them available in in the States. But again, they wouldn't meet any of the crash regs in the States. So Trump is is somebody who will spout whatever he's thinking about at the time, but that's the States. Coming back to the EU and and Europe. It's fair to say that the legacy manufacturers in the EU are a bit behind the times and having to play catch up. Yeah. And certainly you sense the real heightened concern within the legacy manufacturers of not selling cars or not selling the volume of cars that they need to sell in order to maintain the or worse still, have having to subsidise the sale of cars to meet targets. Yeah, and the massive investment that all manufacturers have had to put in to develop these vehicles that we're now seeing on our roads, that's no small investment. They've got to get that return on it. And and today that they're not. Something's got to change in order to convince the private buyer that E Vs are something that they should convert to when they next need to change their car. Well here's an interesting question for you, 'cause one of your external involvements is working with the Palmer Foundation, isn't it? And and Andy is Andy Palmer is a massive advocate for E Vs, isn't he? which I've Greatly respect. Look, the one thing I know, having been in the OEM environment for a long time, and for my sins back in the early 90s, I set up BMW's right-hand drive engineering operation. So I understand what the lead times on engineering are, because I work with it for a long time. And policies that vacillate, that keep you know, so going from 2030 to 35 and back to 2030 and then possibly back. You can't work with that as a manufacturer. You you need consistency. But I know Andy's very much of the view that. even though it's very, very tough, we should stick to our guns and stay with what we've got because we need the manufacturers to get to that point where they can reach cost parity with EV and so on. But there's a very strong lobby in the industry that sort of says, look, it's senseless pushing ahead of natural demand and and and having to buy market share and so on with absolutely penal fines if you don't get there. And there was always that question of why why would the UK be different to the rest of mainland Europe. Yeah, what have we got that enables us to think that we can go five years earlier or what w so what do you think, as they say, discuss, well, I think I think we're a year behind the ZEV target. Yeah. and I don't see from the UK government yet the silver bullet that's going to lift that where it needs to be. We've had various incentives that have been put out there in terms of the E V grant and so forth. And they've tweaked that to help that bring that bracket in to make the so more vehicles fall into that yeah that cost bracket. That's a good thing. But then when you start talking about E V taxes and pence per mile and I'm not sure that's been properly thought through. And those things are not necessarily things that activate the private buyer to think about buying E V. So you what somebody who is maybe that close then hears about that and thinks all. manufacturers need decisive decisions from government and they need consistency and they need sustainability and they and it needs to be constant. Of course when we change our government every five years and often that means that you then get a change and well that that's a particular advantage China has, isn't it? Because it's because it's a command economy. So it's they can take long term plans. You know, I I feel for the manufacturers, I really do, particularly Particularly the legacy manufacturers in the EU, because they have got it as hard at the moment as I think they've probably ever had. And you see car manufacturing plants closing down in various European states, but then you see them being replaced by Chinese plants where in order to get around the regs to make them built in the EU and so on. Where they've got such a massive cost advantage, e the tariffs don't really make a lot of difference. And and even whether they do or they don't get the EV Even the grant hasn't made any of the Because the price point is is more realistic. Yeah. Yeah, well they're giving an awful lot of car at a very, very, very reasonable price, aren't they? But it's a an i a uniquely challenging environment. And the interesting thing is that the the regulations we have are all particularly punishing for the people who actually make cars here, the likes of JLR and Toyota and Nissan, but who are doing their absolute level best and will get there. Weirdly that the policies almost favour the imported cars over the ones made here. Which is what Mike Horse is constantly railing at the government about. And the vast majority of what we do manufacture in the UK is exported anyway. Yeah. Eighty percent, isn't it? Eighty percent has always been exported. Yeah. Not helped by Brexit of course, but that's a whole other subject we won't touch on. today I I think we that we could go too broad. But tell me, look, Before we slit our wrist, you you rightly said, there's opportunity still, isn't there, in all of this. I look at some of the product, particularly let's say some of the Chinese product, which is really, really sophisticated in technology. I think Jim Farley, the the CEO of Ford, said when Tesla first came out, they bought one and took it apart and learned an awful lot. And they've done the same with the Chinese cars. I think he said with one of their EVs, they took over a mile of wiring out of it by having looked at a Chinese EV and how it's put together. Their technical advancement is phenomenal. But that brings with it new opportunities, doesn't it? Because whilst there's less moving parts in an EV, cars are naturally getting electronically more and more and more sophisticated, aren't they? And more and more assistance

systems and so on. I mean I mean the autonomous capabilities of some of those cars is phenomenal, isn't it? But that can't go without attention, can it? Well one of the subjects that I particularly passionate about is automation. When I think about automation, we're all familiar probably with the SAE levels at one to five and and at the moment I think the best we've got in the UK is about level two plus, I think they refer to it as, in terms of being able to have a vehicle that has adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist and so forth. All of those systems rely upon some pretty sophisticated sensors, cameras, lidar, radar that are all looking at a single point in the front of the vehicle. And it's pretty important that they are aligned properly. Now, the last time I looked at the state of the British roads, they weren't particularly very healthy. No. and certainly, you know, from what I know about advanced drive assistance systems and all of those sensors and and so on, is that alignment, calibration of that alignment is is very important. Now, of course, as that technology develops, a lot of that assisted technology self calibrates. But there still has to be a a a point of origin where this thing is is looking at. Absolutely. And so for you can't just You can't just assume that it's right, can you? You you've got to know that it's right. That's right. And and the and the thing is with it, you you can't necessarily turn a screw somewhere. You it's not like aligning headlights where you can see something on a You've got to be able to plug that vehicle in. You've got to be able to read out information. In some cases you've got to connect that vehicle, handshake it with the OEM to be able to gain access to it. And then obviously have all of the equipment that is necessary to align those cameras at various targets and so forth to be able to then say Go and it will then calibrate and done. It's it it you don't even get a reading that says it's out by this many degrees. It's you set it all up, press the button, and it calibrates itself. So I think the thing for me is when you've got something as sophisticated as that, it has to be right. And today I think the knowledge, both in terms of within automotive but also in the in the public sector, I think the knowledge of ADAS is so low and yet it's out there. We every car practically that we all drive has got some form of systic assisted technology on it. I think it was a couple of years ago that the the men I th there's something like a minimum of eleven systems now on a new car, isn't it? And actually the really sad thing about ADAS is that a lot of people jump into their car and the first button they press is the one to turn it all off. Yeah. Because they don't like the interaction of it. And of course, well what's it there for then? It's there to improve road safety. That's its fundamental reason. Yeah, all of the research proves that when we go to auto to automated driving, road safety will improve

by X number of road deaths per year. So ADAS is absolutely the future, but it's assisted tech today. So it's assisting the driver. The driver is still in control. And that's why I'm I want to make sure that whilst it's still assistid technology, that we get it regulated. Yes. Because tomorrow, when it becomes automated technology, when you don't need to be in a driver's seat. Yeah. Or you haven't got a steering wheel. It's now common knowledge to everybody. We're aware of it within automotive, as much as what we are today is ABS. Somebody observed, I can't remember who it was, but somebody who I agree with sort of said one of the quantum differences between the Chinese industry and everybody else. A lot of the Chinese brands actually were tech companies that have made cars. And that's not what's happened in in the West, if you want to put it that way, you know, Europe and the US because the big tech companies have dabbled, the Apples and the Amazons, but then they've walked away from it again. Whereas in China, their equivalents have actually gone feet first into the car industry, so their level of technology they've brought is phenomenal. And the Chinese buyer doesn't have the same history with cars that we do, do they? They don't have the the joy of motoring kind of thing. I mean when you've got eight lanes of traffic that ain't moving, you know, sitting in a car which you can interact with in every way is probably more important than some of the more dynamic aspects. And that's why it's so important that you do what you do. And particularly as a big player that you're representing the industry and saying to the authorities, you just can't let this stuff happen. You've got to be in front of it. Whether it's the MOT test or sensible regulation. Nobody wants regulation for regulation. In fact, ideally we want less regulation. But it was the reason why I at the IMI have strongly championed some kind of national standard of skills for people working with high voltage electric so that people didn't potentially injure or kill themselves working on that stuff. And you were always right behind that and you still are involved with w with that and still passionately believe that's right. And we got the government nod on that. It was Hellishly difficult to get there because they had this sort of notion, particularly the previous government, that we won't regulate on anything unless you can show us at least a couple of bits of regulation we can take away. And so why isn't that your job, not mine? We ultimately found existing regulation that that covered it, didn't through the Electric Electricity at Work Act and so on. So there is opportunity, isn't there? And I what would you say to a young person today that was considering coming into the industry? Well, you know what? I'm not sure that I'm the person to do that. There's a controversial one for you. You weren't expecting that one were you? I I absolutely love conversing with young people. Yeah. But actually, am I really what they want to talk to? I'm a great believer that when we go to schools and colleges, whilst we'll be the people that set it all up. I actually want our young people that are already in apprenticeship positions or young people that have come through and out the other side and are moving up their career now within Halford to be the people that go in and talk to those young people. Sure. Because they're on a level, And I'm not sure that, people of our age are are necessarily the ones that they necessarily know buy into. But certainly for me, automotive opens up so much opportunity for young people. But they don't necessarily get the opportunity to see that. When you think about a few years back, if you weren't very good at maths and English, then your career's advice was to be a builder or a car mechanic or a plumber or something like that. Yeah. That doesn't roll roll true anymore now. It hasn't for a while, has it? You need minimum levels in maths and science and literacy to be a technician these days, don't you? Even with that, that should not prevent people from coming into our trade. But I guess the point I'm making is that with all the technology that we've just been discussing young people that would maybe have thinking of a career in engineering, in medical or in some other walk of life, probably wouldn't even think about automotive. They might be going for a career that is completely outside of their thoughts of automotive. It's just like, why on earth would want to be a car mechanic? Where actually that level of aptitude of those young people that have considered those career pathways are actually could well be the people that we were actually looking for. And it's how do you get in front of them when you've got Parents that are probably guiding them down a route of going to university and getting a degree will actually come to automotive and you can probably have just as good a career, if not better, without having to go to university for six or seven years to get a degree that might not necessarily give you what you want. And a load of debt. Yeah. So getting into that that age group of young people that are in that sort of space of of aptitude, you're also looking at a different demographic. You're looking at more female stuff. Definitely. And we all know that automotive needs to diversify. far faster than what it currently is because then it's representing the very people half the population. Exactly. They drive them. Slightly more and far that it's interesting, one of my interviewees for this series was a young lady who's doing an engineering degree and is absolutely set on being in the industry. Very interesting to note that she's one of two or something on her cohort and and I do completely agree with you. I I used to do the speakers for schools thing. And I very quickly came to the conclusion that I I was starting on the back foot because of Who I am. I'm a an older white bloke standing there. You've got to

overcome that before you even get to them. Whereas somebody who's more on their level, who they can identify with, even though I remember saying to one young person who said, Well, I'm interested in the high tech industries, and I said, think of all the tech you you you've got at its most sophisticated level, bundle it all together, take it to another level. Yeah. And then put it in something that can do a hundred and fifty five miles an hour, stop on a six months or work in all weathers, you're starting to get close to what a car is. You know, so it's emphatically a high tech industry, but it is changing and it has changed, but we're still working off a little bit of the legacy, aren't we, of Yeah, I think there's a balance to be struck. I remember inviting Andy Palmer down to one of the colleges down in the South London when we began the project. And listening to Andy hold the room talking about his career. Of where he started and where he ended up. he inspired me at one of the SMMT events a few years ago because he was literally talking to government saying, You need to listen to us. Well, Andy is somebody who He's doctor, isn't he? He's Dr. Andy Palmer. He came to that education quite late, didn't he? Yeah. It would be remiss of us not to mention First Step Trust, because that was something that we definitely are both connected with. I got you connected with. But we joke about it a bit, but actually they do amazing work, and you particularly have given them an avenue that they might not have had. So this is the charity that takes people who would never traditionally be in the workplace, aren't they? People with quite severe neurodiversity, mental health issues, addiction. And so on. And they do some groundbreaking stuff, don't they? In and you've actually given them the channel to take people who they've we at the IMI helped them get formal qualifications at at that first level. And you've taken a number of them and brought them on through Halfitz, haven't you? Yeah, and you know, twenty seventeen. Andy, would you like to go and meet somebody called Ronnie Wilson? Yeah, okay, Steve. Yeah, I'll I'll do that for you. So yeah, you you Ronnie'd me all those years ago and and and I forged a relationship with Ronnie Wilson. Who runs FST well come into retirement now actually. Yeah. That is a relationship that I cherish and thro and wherever my career goes, I will always think about the time that that we've worked together with First Step Trust. And and you you've you've eloquently you know described it. But what I really love about that program is that it lives on now within Halford's. Our operations team, the divisional director down in that part of the world in in the South East has equally gained and forged a relationship with the team at First Step Trust, which has opened up even greater opportunities for those young people that you describe. Actually young people people of all ages. Yeah. And got them into employment. And you can't help but be

blown away by what they achieve, can you? We've taken some of those some of those apprentices are now our best apprentices. We've showcased those apprentices, we took them to an event in Parliament for the last three years running. They've appeared at Apprentice of the Year finals. We just recently had our Apprentice of the Year graduation ceremony at Halford's. And some of those young people turned up unexpectedly in a full tuxedo black tie. it's fantastic. And and and what a sense of pride that I had seeing those young people up there. I was taken down there very soon after I took over at the IMI and introduced to the charity. And I remember meeting a young lady then who could not hold eye contact. was really uncomfortable just talking one on one. And then she was one of the first people we got qualified at level two and then level three. And I might be wrong, but she may even be a master technician now. But the the thing that really blew me away, she got to the point where she spoke to an assembly which included the local mayor and everything and then went to America and spoke to a a a large audience there. And That transformation was mind blowing. That's right. Mind blowing and and it's just one of many. But I think we're both glad to be associated with that. And that's helped us look at different ways of training people too, hasn't it? Using VR, people who who are profoundly dyslexic, helping them to take exams using virtual reality and so on. And and I think between us, the work you've done and demonstrated at Halford's and the stuff we were doing at the IMI to help FST to find different ways to get people qualified is something we can both be proud of, isn't it really? When I when you first introduced me to Ronnie and the team, I was at that point I was leading our technical training team. I was I was head of L and D. And I I remember being involved in some of those early training sessions and I remember w one of the first courses we delivered, we actually delivered our own courses at First Step Trust. They had a great facility down there. So we we ran one of our training courses on their premises and invited a couple of their students into those environments. And we learnt so much from them. I remember at the end of one of those sessions, one of the people that joined the session from FST was quite dyslexic and gave us some feedback that changed the way that we delivered training. We used lots of colours, text on the material that we were showing up on a PowerPoint presentation. And he was able to give us the feedback that that was causing him a problem. And so because of that we changed the way that we delivered those PowerPoints. And we've continued that to this day. In the real world, we we know that whoever you are, any business, probably twenty percent of your people are neurodiverse with those kind of issues. And in automotive it's higher than that. So so I mean that that's a real business benefit, isn't it? Yeah, and even though the f you know, the the the stat that you just described is known. Our people hadn't told us that. And that's the point, vehicle techs are not necessarily the easiest of people that or f they don't necessarily find They're not terrible always terribly forthcoming on those sort of things, yeah. So when you work with people not necessarily from your own community, yeah. Then you start to be opened up to new information, new ideas, new data. A lot of that work that we did with FST w to help people with neurodiverse challenges came in incredibly useful during the pandemic when people couldn't att couldn't needed to be assessed remotely and so on. Listen, look, Andy, y y you and I could talk forever. So and sadly we don't have forever, but there's a couple of things fun stuff. I know you're a car enthusiast. You've got a very nice five that you drive. If money were absolutely no object, is there a car that you would God, no you're asking it would it would it would have to be a BMW, I'm afraid. I have no problem with that. I mean when I when I think back, one of my moments in your life was when I was given the keys to a friend's E thirty three. the original three. The original three. left hand drive, yeah. Yeah, two point five and and that was probably my first introduction to an car and I was hooked from that moment on. So probably one of those early E thirty threes, maybe. I might go so far as to say an one. That speaks more volumes about the sort of car that I like to drive, Well that's increasingly a money no object thing, isn't it? 'Cause things change hands at some pretty keen prices these days, particularly an MY. An E thirty three go for a quarter of a million pounds recently. I'm not I'm not surprised. We we always kept a few historic ones at BMW and we had a a Roberto Ravag I don't even know who Roberto Ravaglia is actually, but we had a Roberto Ravaglia special edition which was the World Touring Car Championship, wasn't Yeah, yeah, which we i I I do now. he was part of the the the yeah, the what do they call it? The European Touring Carlos. The European Touring Car Championship. And that was a special version. so imagine what that would be worth. To finish on a fun question. Do you have a favourite driving song? God, now you're asking. a favourite driving song? Well, I I think I I'm probably gonna say the obvious and it would be the chain from from Fleetwood Mac. Yeah. You know? I I'd I I think having been brought up on on the original, you know, Formula One of the late seventies, early eighties. Yeah. With Murray Walker and James Hunt and listening to the chain at the beginning and the end of all of it. 'Cause I am a Formula One fan. Yeah. And it's probably the chain, I think. Andy, as always, it's been a great pleasure to talk to you. Thanks for joining me and maybe we'll do it again at some point. Indeed, and and really thanks for the invite, it's been great fun. So I think you'll agree that was a really, really interesting discussion with Andy. Andy and I could talk forever, we really could, but loads and loads of information. And I think crucially, whilst we understand the threats that and and the changes that that that are coming, they're they're also great opportunities too. Big businesses like Halfords aren't planning to pack up and go away. They will be successful whatever changes come. So I thank Andy for his enlightenment on those things and look forward to seeing you next time.