النص الكامل لحلقة How H-1B Rules Affect Tech Workers (and Your Options) With Gabriel Espinosa | Emily Talks Tech Jobs

Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: Sure, so I'm just going to remind everybody what the H-1B is. It's a specialized visa, employment based visa. like you said, typically used by the FAANG companies, the high tech. I used to work in doing employment compliance and immigration law. So these are, I knew how they hire as well using these programs. So that's the most common type of visa that is used by these companies. However, it's not the only one. So in a nutshell, it's basically a specialized visa for folks who have a specialized. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: skill set typically within the technology field engineering the most common sometimes architecture basically your stem you know your stem field your engineering kind of your high tech fields is what we see traditionally it's used for however this does come with a lottery so to apply for this your employer must sponsor you 85 000 visas are you typically approved a year applying for the visa allows you to apply but it doesn't necessarily mean you Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: When the lottery you have to wait, employers typically apply in March every year and then they wait to find out whether their employees were able were selected in the lottery. And so what most employers do is they have a backup in case their employees are not selected. So it's highly competitive and that's why we see a lot of simultaneous petitions going on while the employer is sponsoring the employee. ⁓ And so that's what it is in a nutshell. And then what this law, this Emily Nelson De Velasco: Wow. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: executive order proclamation that the Trump administration created is basically adding a hundred thousand dollar fee each ⁓ H1B application. let's say you get hired one of FAANG companies, right? Google, Amazon. That's not necessarily going to be an issue, oppose an issue because they can, they have the budget, but if it's a more smaller based startup or midsize, they will in my experience, ⁓ a little more selective in who they select to sponsor given this high cost and this is in addition to all the other fees that they have to pay for to apply for the visa as is. So I just wanted to clarify that point it's for each visa but things that it does not apply to so this does not apply to pre-existing H1B so if you already have an approved petition you are not you know not affected it does not apply to renewals within the same Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: However, what it does apply to is anything after that proclamation was issued, And it will basically mean they have to pay that fee. ⁓ Let's if the person has an existing H1B, right, ⁓ from another ⁓ that will most likely apply, you know, it's treated as a new application and pay the fee. ⁓ So basically what this means is that it's going to put more pressure on the employers to budget in cost. Like I said, I don't necessarily see this being an obstacle for the Googles, the larger tech companies, but ⁓ mid-size is where we're probably to see ⁓ more competitiveness with the jobs. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Wow. Right. You know, with that also being said, ⁓ I back at this newsletter article that I wrote. And ⁓ I just looked at of the statistics ⁓ year over year of, number ⁓ of ⁓ petitions, no beneficiaries approved by top 100 employers in United States. And Amazon came out at the top with 10,044. ⁓ of these approved petitions, that times 100,000, at the end of the day, that is quite the chunk of change, even for an Amazon. Right. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: Exactly. And I would imagine they have that budget in place. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: But I think what happens with this is that this is just what is typically used as the go-to petition. But this is why I think it's so important for legal teams at these companies, both larger and smaller, to assess what some of the options are. So the basis for the H-1B is ability. That's what USCIS defines as. ⁓ Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: of extraordinary ability in a skill trade that is highly needed in the U.S. So that could be many industries, right? The O1 has a larger blanket categorization of that. So that can apply to not just people within the STEM field. It could also apply to business owners. Let's say like your, you know, your tech founders, your startup founders who are within that field, your artists, you know, who have the requisite requirements to meet what is exceptional ability. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: I just did a this is a higher green card petition from ⁓ one from an artist who does cartoons International cartoons political sometimes sometimes not ⁓ Cartoons, but he had a history and he also was entrepreneurial He did some some curating for Nasdaq and we were able to also apply for the EB 1a green card because he had what USC is deemed as extraordinary ability so as you see it's very diverse and what extraordinary Emily Nelson De Velasco: ⁓ I Right. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: extraordinary ability can apply to for these types of visa. So I just want to add quick caveats to that. The O1 is the extraordinary ability visa. It's a visa. It can be renewed multiple times. However, it's again, it's not it's not permanent. It's basically to work here. However, as we find another non-typical example in tech, but applies here too is telenovela. For example, we see, we talked about this example, telenovela actors. You see a lot of the actors from that Emily Nelson De Velasco: Yes. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: that main television station in Mexico, which is basically Mexico's Hollywood, Televisa Their work qualifies to sponsor their employees for the O-1. And some of the artists, the actors, they enjoy living in the US so that they try to seek the EB-1A ⁓ green card. ⁓ But... Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm. well. Okay. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: there's a pre-established

extraordinary ability. So basically it requires not all of the requirements, but at least three of the main requirements, you know, either like some type of acclaim doesn't always have to be international, but high acclaim, specialized knowledge acclaim in your respective industry. The more of these you have, typically the higher likelihood. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: that you'll be able to get approved. again, the O1 is a visa, EB1A is a green card, which eventually what we see is I have done is we have had clients, have had approved ⁓ O1s that we have then, you know, transformed so to speak into the EB1A once the client has decided, you know what, after renewing this a couple of times, I've established a life here, I have a family, and they have the requirements and their special ability, extraordinary ability that we can apply for EB1A. There's not a cap for that. Like the H1B does have a cap. Other visas are your TN visas for ⁓ specialized workers in similar industries like your technology STEM industries from Mexico and Canada. That's exclusive to employees from Mexico and Canada. There's visas for executive level employees who have worked in large in some companies before but reached kind of the managerial, you know, people manager level. That's another one. There's student visas. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: So that could be also renewed into maybe an 01. So there's just a lot of options depending on what your situation is. And sometimes your... Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Okay. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: employers legal counsel doesn't always tell you that or you know some of these larger immigration law firms they just kind of push out the h1b's like a mill but they don't really take the time to provide and not to disparage this but that's what i'm seeing just because of the volume they don't take time to provide kind of a holistic higher level approach to what options do these profiles of employees also potentially qualify for because the h1b is just Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm. Mmm. Great. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: the scale. It's just one of many opportunities out there, even with this more strict ⁓ administration with immigration. That's why I always caution, you know, somebody who wants to maybe self-sponsor because that's another option. Some of these are self-sponsored as well. So can them yourself if you have the experience and you can show that you have this exceptional ability. So that's another thing that people don't typically think about. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, so actually I would love to hear a little bit more about your ⁓ ideas around self sponsorship. That was completely new for me when we chatted. So if you could break that down a little bit, that would be great. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: Definitely. Let's say typical, I think a very... ⁓ Relevant example for your audience would be, say somebody who was maybe laid off from a tech company, right? They had an H1B, they had it approved perhaps, and they already showed USCIS that they have extraordinary ability. Let's say that person ends up creating their own client base through freelance work. Let's say, know, if they're an engineer, they're developer, because that's very coveted, you know, for a lot of kind of independent people who need that help, they could do that. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: It's not necessarily completely, it's not a set in stone requirement to do this, but let's say if you have a set, ⁓ just a solid client base doing that type of work independently, it wouldn't be a bad idea to create some type of legal entity that is on your skill set that you could use and also show the government that you are getting paid for that specialized skill. So potentially the ⁓ O1, right? ⁓ That's another, it could also apply for engineers, let's say a Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: developer that profile can potentially apply if they meet the requirements. And then if they want to decide, okay, maybe I'm going to keep renewing or eventually down the line, how strong is my profile to be able to apply to the green card? Cause that is harder. will admit that is it takes, it's a higher burden and you typically have to show more of the requirements, stronger requirements for each of the categories you proved with the O1, but it's doable. If you have that approved, I think there's that foundation. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right. Good. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: can be expanded and that's why you know you can hire your own lawyer to do that if they determine that you have the profile ⁓ they can file that you so that way you can be in status and one thing I advise people who ⁓ are within the 60-day if they're on the h1b definitely talk to a lawyer as soon as possible because the government is issuing what is called notices to appear what we call in immigration world NTAs ⁓ which means you have go to immigration court because the government Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: wants to place you in removal proceedings because you're technically out of status. I'm seeing some people already get them before the grace period of 60 days is up which is not legal but it's still happening and that's why you definitely you need to talk to a lawyer. I would advise everyone to talk to an immigration lawyer as soon as possible if you know you are about to be out of status or will be or you know all the above because there is that risk right so always make sure that you hire a lawyer that knows Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right. Hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: how to advise you on your different options and help you stay out of that type of proceedings if you can. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Okay. So for example, you know, there were just ⁓ huge layoffs announced at Amazon a couple weeks ago and is at the top of the list for those h1b employees so ⁓ the

people who are ⁓ or until been employed by Amazon ⁓ and Are now for either another rule at a large tech firm or looking to self-sponsor? number one, step number one is speak to an immigration lawyer. Is it easy for them to just get another job? Like, let's say, like you said, something highly coveted. Let's say engineer or like data architect or something like that. They can, you know, they've got Amazon on their resume. They can find another role, right? Somewhere in tech. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: Yeah, I think they can. We're seeing again, we have to think about the job market, how fast I think they would be able to, but we have to think about the job market too and also being open to other industries because with that experience, you could still apply that and maybe another industry that's not tech, but that would still be able to sponsor you or you would be able to do that work where you could, if you wanted to also self-sponsor if needed. I would say self-sponsor would be the more immediate remedy versus Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: for an employer to sponsor you within that 60 days because Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right. Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: If you don't find something within the 60 days, you do risk getting know, to put in immigration court removal proceedings, which is another beast within itself. I have done those cases as well. They're not fun, especially right now, but they're doable. But I would advise everyone to think of interim options. Maybe you can do, you can apply for more than one petition that you qualify for. Some of my clients also qualify for asylum, but they Emily Nelson De Velasco: Well. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: they came in with a visa, a valid visa, then they also got a job in tech, but you know they're waiting on let's say another petition to be approved or not. So sometimes it's just always good to explore your situation because everybody has a different situation that you know it's not a one-size-fits-all. That's why I in my experience a good immigration attorney is that we assess all of your options not just in one Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: field. That's why it's if your lawyer only does corporate, it's good to know maybe somebody who does family based, maybe does humanitarian as well because we know somebody who would be able to help you if we can't in our respective specialty. always a good lawyer in my opinion will give you the truth and the facts whether it's not always the best, know, it's like, you might not have the highest likelihood of this particular visa, but you might with this that in my opinion is Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm Mmm. Mm-hmm Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: a good lawyer is very honest with the client and tries to help them find somebody who can help them and what is the highest likelihood of success for their particular situation because what I'm seeing unfortunately is

some lawyers who will not be named ⁓ are unfortunately taking advantage of a very vulnerable community both with ⁓ based, know, humanitarian based and also corporate and just taking cases to take cases but sometimes don't have a high likelihood of success. And I think if you have an assessment with somebody, holistic assessment, there's a chance you might have an opportunity, especially for those who are within the tech industry and have already had an H1B, that already gives the profile of employees, of group of people, in my opinion, a higher likelihood of potentially finding an alternative way of staying in the country legally. And of course, if they experience some type of hardship or persecution in their Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: country that also may qualify for a humanitarian base. So it's just always good to always be honest with your lawyer about everything. I know sometimes we experience things and we don't want to discuss them because they're so traumatizing, but you really, I really do advise everyone listening to be very honest with your lawyer because whatever your life circumstances may be, there might be an option. There's actually options for people who have been here as well, who, for example, married a U.S. citizen. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: and experience some type of violence whether it be like financial, know using money as kind of Trapping somebody harming somebody, you know kind so to speak or physical violence There are visas for that that's kind of within the humanitarian base. They're called the VAWA visas There are visas for those who have experienced a violent crime in the US So those are U visas? So you just really need to be honest with your lawyer about your situation because the more you are Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Great. Mm-hmm Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: then we would be able to find ways to potentially help you. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Wow, okay, there's really a lot going on behind the scenes. And this is really opening my eyes to a bunch different possibilities that didn't come through in those articles that I read in September. ⁓ So thank you so much for ⁓ going into detail about that and ⁓ showing us some of the different options. So you live in San Francisco, ⁓ and I'm wondering ⁓ what kind impact have you seen far like our tech professionals coming to you with layoffs with you know family situations what is the scoop? Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: Definitely, unfortunately, we see a lot of folks who are within the layoffs affected by layoffs. So we either try to see if they qualify for some type of O1 or whatever situation. Sometimes in these conversations, we also find that so-and-so might have qualified for some type of family-based visa. married, they had a real bona fide marriage during their time as an H-1B approved, you know, beneficiary. And they had a young child, which could be an exception to Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: you know, would be a hardship to a US citizen for them to... There are just so many options. That's why it's so important to get a very thorough assessment and just be very transparent with your lawyer. And on the employer side, I'm seeing that there's more desire to understand, one, like, what is it that I need to be doing, I shouldn't be doing to not be fined? And that applies to not just with the visas, but also the I-9 verification, employment compliance. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: things like that. So I live near Silicon Valley. So you can imagine there's a lot of concern, especially since the H1B proclamation came. These questions, who does it affect? How much is it going to cost me? What visas? If you're going to renew, it doesn't apply for your same employee, but for new empires, it would, right? So what does that mean for the employers? They do have to budget in that cost. And I'm seeing that Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: it's affecting more so the mid-size tech companies and the startups. That's what I'm seeing those types of jobs are ⁓ becoming more competitive because what I'm seeing some of these companies that are more, you know, are more in their infancy stage are really only hiring kind of people manager leadership type roles, ⁓ we need one or two, you know, type of engineers. need a DevOps engineer. We need, you Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: a cybersecurity engine, you know, that's what I'm seeing and asking for help with how to comply with the law. That's what I'm seeing a lot of confusion and how can I navigate this both as an employee and as an employer because that's what I do both. And so I'm seeing that demand for that. So that's why I really am glad that you took the time to create this space because I just wanted people listening to understand there's just there's not just the H1B. If you already have an approved H1B, Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: you already have a foundational advantage ⁓ because you have already USCIS, ⁓ I have exceptional ability. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right, okay, wonderful. Okay, that's really interesting and good to know. ⁓ So that being said, I'm not at with the immigration And one of the biggest questions that I've gotten from seekers is ⁓ when they're applying for a job and they're like filling out boxes ⁓ on the application form. What should they say? Like, should they say? And of course, I'm sure this depends on a case by case basis, but like, is there some kind of argument for somebody who previously held an H1B visa to say that they don't need sponsorship? Because people want to be able to check the box that says I do not need sponsorship. But then, you know, when they get to the employer, the recruiter likely doesn't know specifically what that means. So what advice would you give to them? Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: What is first thing to

be always lead with the truth, be transparent, number one. And that's always a rule of, know, scouts honor rule of, you know, honor in our world too, in any industry, it should apply, but definitely how valid, how much longer is your existing benefit going to last? If let's say you have an existing benefit and you don't need it right now, but Emily Nelson De Velasco: it. Yeah. Yeah. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: you are going to maybe self-sponsor or you have decided or you have maybe an approval pending for another benefit, it would then be appropriate to say, I don't need it because then let's say you got asylum. Let's say for example, that person just found out they got asylum, affirmative asylum is for people who come in with a visa. they didn't come in without inspection. They came in with a visa. If they found out they got approved, Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: they wouldn't need, know, because they're going to get their visa because as soon as they get asylum, for example, in that situation, they're authorized to work in the US and live in the US and after a year, they can apply for a green card. So in that case, they wouldn't need to say, I need it. But if you're an H1B holder and you have an existing benefit, I mean, I think the truth in that situation, if you don't have a pending renewal, Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: then you don't unless you already know that you were able to get a one approved. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: that case, who wouldn't? So it really depends on the situation. But if you don't have either of those, think it's just always best to lead with transparency because the chances are that it would just create a larger issue in the future. If the employer hires you under the pretense that you, they thought that you had some type of status or that you had a permanent status of sort and they wouldn't need to sponsor you again, because if you think about it, they wouldn't have budgeted that in when they hired you. And so that was contingent. You could assume. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right. Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: on you being hired because they assume that you didn't need that benefit that they would need to expend that extra budget for. So again, always lead with the truth and definitely, like I said, everybody has their own situation because just because we all, you know, we come from tech, a lot of us have worked in tech, work in tech or adjacent in tech does not mean that other benefits don't apply to us. So again, always if you can, I think it's just worth it to speak to your own independent counsel that's not hired by a company. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right. Yeah. All Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: because when you hire your own lawyer, even if it's for a thorough consultation, you're going to get a very honest assessment of your situation, not just the tech profile situation But those are my parameters if you know you don't have permanent status. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Yeah. Right, and then I bet, you know, having that backing of your own personal attorney definitely will help you in the employment process. You know, if there are any questions that need to be cleared up with your employer, then your attorney can definitely speak to that. ⁓ And hopefully, you know, help you land a job that you might otherwise have been passed over for. Yeah. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: Definitely, I agree Emily Nelson De Velasco: and then so just one more question about ⁓ About these application forms and not because I want people to cheat on their application forms guys, honestly Honestly, always is the best policy I believe that in my heart of hearts too But just because people ask me so much and I'm so like I am really for anybody who wants to ask me I am NOT the right person to ask this question to so we're gonna ask Gabe right now. You know, I think it's also difficult for them to understand, like, do I actually need the sponsorship or not? Or like, if I'm in a proceeding, which I think is why you're saying, OK, go to a lawyer and make sure that you know your status and what the answer is. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: He looks like this. I'll give a very common example with what we're maybe someone who's laid off, right? The H1B is valid and sometimes the layoff dates have a grace period, right? know, that sometimes two months and so, so it's, want to clarify the expiration is starting from 60 days from the date that you are on paper laid off. So if you're on the payroll for two more months, you have essentially four months to two months, you know, the on the payroll plus the sixty Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: days. Again, unfortunately, I will be very transparent with you all with what's going on under this administration. DHS sometimes is, which is not legal, it's not correct, but it is putting some people who are within that 60 day grace period in proceedings, in NTA removal proceedings. So I highly recommend, to speak to an immigration lawyer as as you find out. If you are laid off, try to find out your options before you're off the payroll. ⁓ That's my number one recommendation. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: if you are only thinking that you want to apply under H1B, then I would say the answer is yes, I would require sponsorship because that is the truth. If you haven't spoken to a you don't know whether you're going to apply for, let's say a self-sponsorship or you don't have a self-sponsored ⁓ visa approved or you don't have another permanent or temporary status approved and you are not doing that on your own to get status and you need an employer to do that, then yes, you will need to say, I will require sponsorship. But sometimes those questions have a box where you can add a caveat like visa is valid. Sometimes that helps the employers know because they know that you have a profile that is

within extraordinary ability and sometimes I could maybe motivate them to still give you a second look So you do I always say like you said with the truth though but in that situation if you haven't spoken to a lawyer and you know if you qualify for anything and you haven't gotten anything approved ⁓ even Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right. Right. Mm. Right. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: temporarily just because your existing H1BN work permit is valid does not mean that you will not require it because the fact is you will eventually require an extension of some sort or another benefit to replace that. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Okay, and last follow-up question. So if they tick that box wrong and they say that they don't need sponsorship, and they actually do, regardless of whether they understood that they were making mistake there or not, are they violating the law by doing so? Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: How would I say violating the law if they didn't genuinely know? Only if they knowingly. And I just wanted to clarify, questions from employers are not violation of the law. even I'm not encouraging, I wouldn't encourage anyone to deceive an employer. It's not a criminal. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay, it's not fraud. For sure. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: conviction. Anyway, not a violation per se of law, but ⁓ not necessarily something I would recommend if you want to work in any industry. it's you know, it's ⁓ law and tech. We're a Emily Nelson De Velasco: Yeah. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: very close knit world, know, Everybody knows somebody who has worked with somebody. ⁓ It just would not be your best interest to knowingly ⁓ lie but if you didn't know you can just explain that on a recruiter screen and then you can explain your situation but if you already have ideally the time to speak with your own lawyer that might make your potential new employer feel better if you already had an assessment of you know my lawyer said I'm in the process of getting this petition because I have the profile for this or that that might make an employer feel better about taking you on but they might say okay if we hire you then you have to continue that process. So that is something that because of this new law, we're seeing some employees are getting hired kind of under that condition though, if they do that, but that opens up more opportunities for the job seeker. If they're being proactive, I always encourage everyone to be proactive, but especially with how much immigration is changing. I encourage you, I understand it's an, it's a investment, but it's an investment for your future, for your career. And if you have the skills to have gotten an H1, Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: B, go to your network, offer your freelance work, you know, get paid for that because that could actually be used to get you your own visa on your own. So take advantage of your experience and then you decide if you want to keep applying to these big tech companies or maybe who knows you could be one of those. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Yeah. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: extraordinary ability cases where you get a green card because you started the next, you know, big tech company through your innovation. Cause I see clients like that who were laid off. look at it and made lemonade out of the huge lemons they were thrown with layoffs and they started their own companies that became very successful. So those are things that kind of wanted to give people some hope that that is a profile for both O1 and the H1B being a tech founder. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Wow. Wonderful. Okay guys, go do it. Start your own company. You heard it here first. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: you or reach out to your network, get paid for your skills, because there's always a demand for your skills. If you have experience use it because there are, I'm sure small businesses who might become the next big thing. you could use to potentially sponsor yourself to get your own next benefit where you don't always have to depend on the H1B. And I want to clarify these are just general guidelines ⁓ for your own situation. You would really need to talk to your immigration lawyer, even if it's for a consultation to assess what is potentially viable for you this Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: not a one size fits all and even if you are hired by a company you get let's say an H1B or another one of these visas but you're not sure maybe that your company's lawyer or law firm is handling your case in the best way you're always free to seek independent counsel to get a second opinion and I always encourage people who are not happy with the service to do so because you know knowledge is power and we shouldn't be just at the mercy of everyone we need to be proactive I think if you understand yourself what your rights are and you're advocating for yourself you're always going to get the best result versus just depending on a company to do that for you. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right? Knowledge is power, guys. Okay, wonderful. So, you know, right now, I don't know if you, yeah, I think you, I did mention this to you. So I'm an immigrant myself, two-time immigrant, ⁓ did the immigrant thing in Germany, and I'm currently living in Mexico. So I've, you know, experienced a plethora of different systems and immigration. Stuff let's just say and also, you know in my newsletter article that I referred to earlier I had mentioned, option of looking to Canada as an alternative if you ⁓ you know facing the situation where you've got 60 days and you're not finding a way to stay in the United States to potentially look to Canada ⁓ as a close alternative to the United States ⁓ ⁓ So that being said, I wonder what your perspective is on these systems. you think that job seekers who are facing difficulties right now will see better conditions in Canada or maybe even looking to Europe for for ⁓ alternatives Gabe

Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: I even think Mexico has a booming market as well. It's doing very well under a new administration. Their economy is doing better than ever and there are tech entities there as well. So I would advise anyone who thinks that they could have a possibility of migrating in a country where they feel prospects are better. to explore that as well. that's something you also want to explore and maybe you talk after talking to your immigration attorney about options here, they find, know, unfortunately, this might not be the strongest profile for any of this, then yes, I would advise people to, but that's very much a personal decision as to where you see yourself wanting to be permanently located. Right. ⁓ So, you know, doing your research, what are, what is the market for job seekers? What is the quality of life? What is it that I'm looking for in Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Great. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: my rhythm of life, quality of life. So answering those questions with yourself honestly, just trying to explore all options. Definitely. think that's not, you know, I don't think it's a defeatist question because sometimes people are just, they might be happier. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: in the neighboring country, you know, it's everybody's situation is different. So I definitely think that it wouldn't be a bad idea if that's something you were considering to explore that potentially, say you have that big tech experience, you probably would be marketable in these other countries. And would just be matter of exploring the quality of life, kind of what that would equate in terms of the money there to what your lifestyle is and whether what you would need to live the lifestyle that you are accustomed to choosing. So again, that's a very individual and personalized decision for sure. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Definitely. So I've got one more question for you before I you about your hot take. you've been in this field for quite a while now You're in San Francisco in this Greater San Francisco Bay Area ⁓ And the changes recently have been wild. What do you what is your prediction? What do you think is coming for us? Should we harness in ⁓ for more changes or are we are we steady ship right now? ⁓ Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: In terms of immigration, I feel if you have a solid plan... speak to an attorney about your situation, there is likely some type of option, especially if you already had at some point, either a tech ⁓ job and an H1B approved at some point, there's a good chance, obviously not guaranteeing it, no lawyer, good lawyer will guarantee a result, but there's a good chance based on my experience with the work I do that there might be some other option for you. So really just sticking to your plan for your situation, know, your circumstances and really staying informed with the updates and now Emily Nelson De Velasco: Okay. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: you mentioned this, did want to advise everybody who is going to start, you know, they're in immigration proceedings under or just starting a new petition of any sort. As of August, USCIS did issue a memo, policy guidelines stating that anyone who in any type of benefit, family, humanitarian, corporate, immigration benefit, they will check your social media to determine whether your speech or, you know, speech in any way is quote anti-American. or a threat or anti-interest of the US. At this point, I will never advise anyone to censor them or to, I always am an advocate of free speech, but just be mindful that there will be eyes on you as soon as anti- submit, you know, you're in the system and you're submitting a renewal or any type of other immigration benefit. All eyes will be on you and if you don't disclose your handle, they will find it somehow because they people have full time jobs dedicated to looking at who is making quote anti- American That's another story for another day. And again, that's why you speak to your lawyer, ⁓ but just be mindful that think before speak. I'm not advising everybody has a choice to believe what they want to believe, but Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: there are things that are not protected under free speech violence is never protected anything that incites violence is never protected ⁓ unfortunately we seeing some of the kind of ⁓ backlash against folks who for example in the free Palestine movement I don't find that violent in any way but the government might find that so just be mindful of what you post and just ⁓ remember you do have eyes you once you submit this petition that is a policy what I don't necessarily Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Great. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: agree with it but I'm always here to tell you what it is even if it's not what I want to hear or you want to hear remember you know to be cautious with that you will be ⁓ scrutinized in some way Emily Nelson De Velasco: Right, absolutely. Wow. Words to live by. So that being said, Gabe Espinosa Ramos, what is your hot take? Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: Explore, you know what you might not have thought to explore before in terms of immigration think outside of the h1b bubble box like I said earlier Be very transparent with your lawyer again I think one just having the mentality of I don't think it's a bad idea to just budget in okay You know what even if it's just a consultation I should just I should be okay with that because that's going to help me increase my likelihood of finding something that I can find long term to keep me in the country lawfully. So thinking of that and being open to using your skills to work for yourself, offer your services to your network who might, you you had a good rapport with during your time in tech because there's likely going to be somebody that would hire you for some capacity. Put yourself out there, talk to a lawyer and explore all of these options, not just the corporate but Emily Nelson De Velasco: it.

Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: be humanitarian. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: So just be very transparent and don't be afraid to be vulnerable and just be open because your lawyer needs to know. These things are can be relevant because you might not think, my marital situation from with a U.S. citizen where I was ashamed of. that might get you a permanent status because those VAWA visas can lead to a permanent green card. If you are exploited by an employer and somehow you were trafficked in for labor, like, and then they didn't pay you, they didn't give you your fair, you know, breaks potentially, you know, the T visa. There's just so many options. That's why I say talk to a lawyer who is either very well connected or who specializes ideally and for sure the corporate, right? Because you already got the H1B. But if you can also talk to somebody who has a Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: to people who do the family-based, the humanitarian-based, it would not be a bad idea because all of those connections, those levels of expertise open up your possibilities of getting a permanent status in the U.S. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Wonderful. So it sounds like all hope is not lost. Go talk to Gabe. He knows his stuff. Are you only able to serve clients in California or across the US? Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: So immigration is federal law. So we can take clients across the US for those proceedings. I'm mostly taking like ⁓ the specialized visa. So right now either like the O1s, sometimes the H1, B1As, select asylum or family based, but I'm always able to offer a consultation because I'm very well connected to colleagues who do both. So definitely whether it's with me, whether it's else, just always talk to a lawyer who knows, knows their stuff, you know, I, the people in my network, I pride myself in my colleagues are very also very ethical. That's another thing guys. It's don't let yourself get taken advantage of. If your lawyer is not, you know, just takes their case, even though they don't give you a honest assessment, ⁓ that's Emily Nelson De Velasco: your phone. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: of should be a red flag to you. If your lawyer is not following up on time and is letting deadlines pass, that's not a good follow-up. you know, and that can be reported to the bar, right? So if you need help with that, I can refer. I just don't like seeing people get taken advantage of. I used to be a tech employee too. I have been affected at one point by a layoff, even though not the immigration, didn't have to deal with the immigration implication, but I know what it's like to have employers or other people try to take advantage. So just try to find somebody that will keep it real with you. Emily Nelson De Velasco: you Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: And if I'm able and have the bandwidth to speak with you, I'll always give you an honest and thorough assessment. Even if it's, you know what, I'm unable to help you with this situation, but this colleague might, I'll always try to steer you in the right direction, even if I can't help you. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Okay, wonderful. So knowledge is power guys if you either need ⁓ assistance with your case or ⁓ You or your company need training ⁓ Feel free to reach out to gabe. We will put his contact information in the comments below So that being said gabe, thank you so much for being here with us today. I really appreciate it and I know that you know just because of the volume of ⁓ You know immigrant job seekers fellow immigrant job seekers out there ⁓ Yeah, I know that they'll appreciate your insights on the topic. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: Thank you and also just wanted to add one more caveat if you experience some type of illegal behavior at your former company and you have especially documentation. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Hmm? Yeah. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: and it's for a protected reason that you either got terminated or experienced harassment because let's say you're an immigrant, you're a woman or another protected category by law. I am taking California, select California employment discrimination cases as well. So that can, that sometimes unfortunately comes hand in hand with these lay, I hate to say it, especially with immigration. So just. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Mm-hmm. Wow. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: If you need that, you know, that's something that might be an option too. ⁓ Depending on the situation, we might be able to use it to qualify for one of those other visas. Let's say if you didn't get breaks, you because you're an immigrant, they made you work on vacations and it's documented potential T visa. You never know. So just always talk to somebody who can explore all your remedies. And yes, knowledge is power. And I will share kind of a little summary and high level talking points if you would love to share it with your audience. Happy to to pass that along. and you know a free resource from me to the audience. My pleasure. Emily Nelson De Velasco: Absolutely, we would love that. Thank you so much. Well, that being said, again, Gabe, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, you too, bye. Gabe Espinosa-Ramos, Esq.: My pleasure. Thank you, Emily. Have a great one. Bye.