النص الكامل لحلقة Stability AI Gets Another Oscar Winner on the Team, Sony's New Camera Tracker, Panavision Layoffs

00:03:55.420 --> 00:04:06.100 But it was a really good talk from Rob about AI in general and just, like, you know, he's been around since Avatar, Titanic, developed the pipeline for the virtual camera workflow in Avatar, and just sees this as another step in the tool, and now is- I mean-... 30 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:15.580 getting on the other side of it and being involved in helping develop these new AI tools for professional visual effects pipeline. I can't think of a better person. Like, he is an Oscar-winning- Mm... 31 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:30.090 as tier one as it gets- Mm-hmm... level VFX supervisor. He's super familiar with AI limitations and strengths of today. Mm-hmm. And I think he's quote, unquote, "Chief Pipeline Architect." That's the name of the title. 32 00:04:30.090 --> 00:04:44.720 The title, yes, I believe. Yeah. Which, which is sort of a parallel to what companies like Promise AI and Asteria and Staircase are doing is, uh, is not necessarily building foundational models like stable diffusion. 33 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:53.900 It's stringing together a bunch of tools- Mm-hmm... the same way VFX pipelines string together a bunch of tools and, uh, to get the most amount of control and quality. 34 00:04:54.280 --> 00:05:03.260 And how do you make it build the tool in a flexible enough way, because AI is developing so rapidly where when something new does come along or an- Yeah... improvement in a model, you can just swap it out- Yep... 35 00:05:03.340 --> 00:05:15.180 and not have to rebuild your entire workflow. I'd be really curious to see if Stability has any sort of internal short film that they're championing, and then Rob Legato comes in and then drops the quality bar, right? 36 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:23.640 Or rather improves it- [laughs]... significantly. Like producing like a, like a proof of concept kind of film, like- Yeah, I would love to see how good that looks with Rob Legato at the helm. 37 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:33.820 Yeah, and I feel like the comparison of the advantage of something like Stability is unlike these other AI production companies that we've covered, uh, in the past, where they're using existing models and plug in and play and stuff. 38 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:41.290 Yeah. This is Stability AI, and they're training their own models, and you have a team- You have so much more control... of, of developers- Yes... that are building new models and tools. Yeah. 39 00:05:41.320 --> 00:05:50.676 And speaking of new tool that also just came out from Stability is Stable Virtual Camera, and this-Perfectly ties into- Oh, my God... a lot of things Rob has been talking about. So cool. 40 00:05:50.956 --> 00:05:57.156 And the trickiness of AI where it's like you don't have the control, you know, you need that camera control. Specifically cinematography. It's cinematography, yeah. Yeah. 41 00:05:57.186 --> 00:06:08.356 And, and even, you know, he would give great examples of something like the live action Lion King that was all CG, and another virtual production, uh, pipeline that they developed with operating a physical unit that was a virtual camera. 42 00:06:08.416 --> 00:06:18.506 Yeah. And he also gave great examples in his talks where he's like, just the art of the camera operator comes through in the virtual camera. Right. Like the, the weight transfer and the footsteps and all- Yeah... 43 00:06:18.506 --> 00:06:25.386 those things that, that language we're used to. Right. Yeah. And stuff that just doesn't come across if you're operating in a fully virtual space- Correct... 44 00:06:25.396 --> 00:06:34.066 and you're doing key frames, and it's like camera goes from here to here with a key frame. Correct. It's like you lose the actual finesse of a, a seasoned camera operator. And- It's such full circle- Mm... 45 00:06:34.186 --> 00:06:42.616 because when Rob Legato was working on Avatar I, this was all so brand new for, uh, real time render engines, right? Uh, I don't even... 46 00:06:42.956 --> 00:06:48.366 I think this predates Unreal, but having simulcam and virtual camera for Avatar I was- Mm... 47 00:06:48.396 --> 00:07:02.136 so pioneering at the time, and now they're introducing that all over again with AI, uh, which will obviously have, you know, far more creative control and quality than what they had back then. Yeah, exactly. 48 00:07:02.176 --> 00:07:13.416 And so, uh, just highlights of what this new, uh, it's a... I believe it's in research preview mode, but you can download the model, uh, and, and test it out, but you can feed it a, a 2D image. Either- Yeah... 49 00:07:13.436 --> 00:07:26.616 either a single 2D image or up to 32 input images, and it will turn that into a 3D space, and you can... I believe you could either program, uh, it wasn't entirely clear how you can program manually the camera movement. 50 00:07:26.736 --> 00:07:33.926 I'm guessing you can kind of draw the arc or the curve. Yeah, I don't know if it's a curve. I don't know how that translates how you would map that out into 3D space. Mm. 51 00:07:33.956 --> 00:07:44.675 I don't know if it's something similar, like Runway has a camera movement tool where you can kind of click and drag, and a- animate a camera movement. Um- I'll have to, uh, test it out. Yeah, we'll test it out. Yeah. 52 00:07:44.696 --> 00:07:55.835 But they also have a handful, 14, uh, preset paths, so like an orbit or a push-in. This is something similar that, uh, Luma has as well where if you- Okay... want to have a preset camera move. Okay. 53 00:07:56.016 --> 00:08:11.016 Pan, jib, tilts, push in, pull out. I mean, it's not... I, I don't think it's real time yet, but wouldn't it be cool if it could take a XYZ input or perhaps 3D data. 3D is, like, the most common camera tracking protocol. 54 00:08:12.136 --> 00:08:25.016 And so you could tie like a Ocellus or an Ncam or a Mo-Sys system in real world, feed that into stable virtual camera, and get even like a five frames per second update on what

you're seeing. Yeah. 55 00:08:25.096 --> 00:08:34.036 I'm waiting for something, even not a real camera, even our phone. A iPhone, yeah. Yeah. Which is like when I even have dabbled and connected like the, uh, Unreal virtual camera to the iPhone- Yeah... 56 00:08:34.076 --> 00:08:41.666 and I'm in an Unreal space and I'm looking at it on my phone, it just brings this whole extra sense of like- Yeah... realness to the virtual space where I'm like, "Oh, I can like tilt up here- Yeah... 57 00:08:41.685 --> 00:08:50.416 and I see like my virtual space." If we could just track that with AI. Mm-hmm. I mean, also first off, it's really wild that this can work with just a single input image. Yeah. 58 00:08:50.496 --> 00:08:52.916 Um, so you just give it a single image- Doing a lot of generative filling. Yeah. 59 00:08:53.136 --> 00:09:00.546 But yeah, there is some intermediary step where you can give it the image, it can create, even if it's a rough Gaussian splat looking- Yeah... kind of 3D environment. 60 00:09:00.656 --> 00:09:06.756 You operate your camera in this, record your movement, and then generate the high quality output. Yeah. 61 00:09:06.816 --> 00:09:19.556 It, it, it's almost the same challenges that a real time game engine like Unreal or Unity would have to push through, which is, uh, okay, fine, you are now doing location scouting in a virtual environment. Good. Mm-hmm. 62 00:09:19.796 --> 00:09:33.616 Okay. So now can you make stuff move? Can the palm tree swing and can the water, you know, bump a- up against the rocks? Okay, that's a challenge. Let's get past that. Now the ultimate challenge is, uh, characters. 63 00:09:34.056 --> 00:09:41.356 Okay, can you put a human in there? And can that human perform and move at the same time you're doing a camera move? 64 00:09:41.416 --> 00:09:48.306 'Cause these, these are things that are happening on set in real life, and you have to recreate all of that in the AI neural engine. 65 00:09:48.676 --> 00:09:56.185 And are you saying this would be like a human actor that we're filming and we're putting them in a virtual space or a generated- I would imagine a generated-... performer... 66 00:09:56.185 --> 00:10:07.576 human would probably be easier in the first step, and then the second step would be like taking input, camera input of a real human performer and putting it into the, uh, neural engine. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. 67 00:10:07.605 --> 00:10:15.696 And I think that's... Yeah, I mean, we've talked about that before. Rob Legato's got some work to do. [laughs] Being able to film a real person, their performance- Yeah... and make the environment- Yeah... virtual. 68 00:10:16.036 --> 00:10:21.836 And also a consistent environment- Yeah... which we've talked about before as well of like a consistent 3D space, so I can... 69 00:10:21.856 --> 00:10:28.376 when we have the shot here, we have the shot here, the background is not regenerating and is something completely different every single time. Yeah. 70 00:10:28.386 --> 00:10:41.236 Uh, and then the arms race right now in the AI M&E space, I think is the image to video models, right? Mm-hmm. So like Google Veo, uh, WAN, obviously Stable Diffusion, Runway. 71 00:10:42.096 --> 00:10:52.156 We're gonna move very quickly into the world of video to video generation. I think that's where most of the content creation for Hollywood will happen. 72 00:10:52.336 --> 00:10:57.596 Nobody's expecting you to have tier one level quality just from generation alone. 73 00:10:58.256 --> 00:11:09.416 You're gonna guide it, and what better guidance than a camera input or a screen grab or something that's constantly feeding the system at 24 frames per second or whatnot? Mm-hmm. Yeah. 74 00:11:09.476 --> 00:11:17.956 Like the next step of the virtual production pipeline- Yeah... that we've established with like- Exactly... camera tracks. Yeah. We're in a hybrid virtual environment. It'll just be generated in the future. 75 00:11:18.156 --> 00:11:30.776 Pure speculation here, but I think we're gonna kind of see a almost a fallback to green screen because [chuckles] like you don't need the n- the complexity of a volume and the 76 00:11:31.676 --> 00:11:35.356 everything that comes with LED panels and processors and media servers. 77 00:11:36.016 --> 00:11:46.556 If you can just put two actors in front of a high-end cinematographer in a green screen stage, well, you can fill everything out and look at it in real time and make your decisions that way. 78 00:11:46.676 --> 00:11:56.600 I think, yeah, and I think there... it could also be a hybrid-Approach as well, and, uh, I got a bit of a tech preview and we're gonna film it at a NAB pre-show of Phantom Tracker. Yeah. Using... 79 00:11:56.620 --> 00:12:05.540 Which we've seen that with an LED wall. LED wall, big, bulky. Running that with a projection instead, and being able to do a Phantom Track with a projection. You have two outputs. 80 00:12:05.660 --> 00:12:13.590 One, your virtual environment, or maybe a Gaussian spot environment- Yeah... or a AI-generated environment. And then the other one is green screen. Oh, amazing. And- And I think, uh- So-... 81 00:12:13.700 --> 00:12:21.860 some projector manufacturers are working on this, actually. Yeah. Uh- I'm not gonna name who, 'cause I think I was under NDA [laughs] at the time. Yeah. Yeah. 82 00:12:22.020 --> 00:12:30.990 I'll wait for the vi- I don't think it's a secret, uh, of who I saw. But I'll wait until the video comes out. Yeah. So, yeah. [laughs] We know that guy really well. We actually... [laughs] Yeah. 83 00:12:30.990 --> 00:12:34.430 [laughs] It was a collaboration between a handful of people we know pretty well. Yeah, exactly. And, uh... 84 00:12:34.460 --> 00:12:41.500 Yeah, so I got a little preview, and it's really interesting what they're doing, and I think is a good middle ground for applications like this- Yes... 85 00:12:41.560 --> 00:12:52.060 that you can do stuff that looks really well

and don't need the huge heavy lift of having a huge LED wall. Also, the ICV effects is not final. Like, it's just for reference at that point. Mm-hmm. 86 00:12:52.340 --> 00:12:56.860 And so your final pixel in the background will be AI generated. Mm-hmm. 87 00:12:56.900 --> 00:13:04.730 And also have been seeing, and we're also probably gonna dive into this more at NAB, with something even, like, lower left, uh, Jetset, a Lightcraft- Yes... app which goes on, runs on the phone- Yeah... 88 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:14.160 but you can connect it to your camera, and they've been doing a lot with Gaussian splats- Yeah... loaded on the phone, and a lot of really interesting workflows, and that's, like, so low lift because- I know. 89 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:20.580 It's an app... it's, it's literally an app on your phone. Yeah. Yeah. And you can just buy a phone, and you can strap it onto any cinema camera. Yeah. 90 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:30.400 And- And I think it connects to, uh, cinema encoders, like camera lens encoders, and then obviously Unreal or Unity, I, I, I believe. Uh, yeah, I think yeah. Yeah, it's- I think you can run on Unity. 91 00:13:30.580 --> 00:13:39.880 A lot of really interesting workflows that are filling the middle to lo- lower ground of you don't need a huge massive volume to, uh, do really creative workflows. Yeah. 92 00:13:39.980 --> 00:13:53.750 Uh, the indies filmmakers of today, all they really need is a couple of really nimble, agile, creative technologists- Mm-hmm... to just harness all this power, all these tools that are available to them. Yeah. 93 00:13:53.800 --> 00:14:06.340 And, uh, shout out to Voya, who is, uh, I believe, a competitor to Lightcraft in that same space of prosumer simulcam technology. Okay, okay. Yeah. We're watching the space out here. And close. Denoised. [laughs] Yes. 94 00:14:06.400 --> 00:14:19.040 And then speaking of, uh, virtual production and camera tracking- Yeah... new high-end- I-... high-level camera tracker is out from Sony. I love the direction that Sony is going. So this new product is called OCELUS. 95 00:14:19.220 --> 00:14:25.080 I think I'm pronouncing it right. OCELUS. O-C-E-L-L-U-S. I would go with that. Looks right. Looks, sounds correct. Okay. 96 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:41.320 So what this is, uh, and what it seems like to me is under the hood, it's probably a Intel RealSense or some kind of depth sensor that's doing depth perception of the world, and then in real time SLAM tracking, meaning simultaneous location and map mapping. 97 00:14:41.660 --> 00:14:52.780 Is that what SLAM means? Creating a, uh, digital twin of the world in real time as it's sort of figuring out the point cloud around it. Simultaneous locate-localization and mapping. That's it. 98 00:14:52.920 --> 00:15:06.240 And using SLAM, uh, it is able to then deduce where it is in 3D space and send that data both to the Sony camera as well as any external devices that need it. Mm-hmm. And to clarify too, it is from

Sony. 99 00:15:06.400 --> 00:15:15.480 It works on any camera. Yeah. Obviously, they're picturing it with Sony cameras, and that's the ecosystem, but- It's such a good pairing... it is a tracker that- Yeah... will work on any camera. It's a sensor... 100 00:15:15.560 --> 00:15:24.180 The sensor has five faces, but I believe only four are being used, and they're pointing in each direction, and I believe it could operate with just one. So- Okay... 101 00:15:24.220 --> 00:15:33.060 if you have four running, uh, but if you're blocked- All the better. Yeah. Yeah, but if three of them are getting blocked or obscured by something, it still can accurately track with one. 102 00:15:33.660 --> 00:15:39.980 I mean, they must have been working on this for a long time, 'cause this is not something you could put together quickly, and it's a very competitive space. 103 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:49.700 You have Ncam, which is obviously another depth sensor-based- Yeah. But now that's, uh, Zeiss CinCraft. Sorry about that. Yeah. Yeah, that's a new name. Uh, Zeiss acquired Ncam. Yeah. 104 00:15:49.940 --> 00:16:01.350 And now you have StYpe, RedSpy- Mm-hmm... which is in, in the same vicinity. Mm-hmm. Mo-Motion. Mo-Motion StarTracker. You have, uh... There's several others. Obviously, the VIVE Mars for the very consumer- Mm-hmm... 105 00:16:01.400 --> 00:16:11.980 oriented people. Vicon and OptiTrack, traditional- Yeah... mo-cap solutions. Yeah, and also anti-latency. Anti-latency. But- Yeah... now as far as how this work, I mean, you don't need any star tracking. It just- Yeah... 106 00:16:12.020 --> 00:16:20.630 looks out, tracks objects. I don't- Correct. And, and- I couldn't find info on the calibration process or if, how much is needed, 'cause that's always a- I would look at the-... 107 00:16:20.630 --> 00:16:31.790 a part with the, with these kind of systems... Ncam system. Uh, this is so close to what Ncam... Ncam also uses a stereoscopic camera. Mm-hmm. Uh, perceives depth. The way Ncams calibrate themselves is through QR codes. 108 00:16:31.880 --> 00:16:38.940 You just hang- Mm-hmm... a bunch of QR codes on the wall that you're in. The nice thing about this system is it's ready to go to the Super Bowl. 109 00:16:39.800 --> 00:16:50.700 Most systems are for indoor spaces, but because this is relying not just on visible data, but also depth data at different lighting conditions, uh, you can take it outside. Yeah. 110 00:16:50.740 --> 00:17:00.320 And there was a feature as well where if you're in a environment with a lot of strobing lights, so like a live event environment, you can just- Just-... operate off- Yeah... like infrared, I believe. 111 00:17:00.380 --> 00:17:08.280 And- It'll, it will just turn off, uh, RGB. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so it can just still track and ignore the, uh, the lights flashing in the sensor, which can throw off other sensors. Yeah. 112 00:17:08.320 --> 00:17:18.960 And the other nice thing here is it's got lens encoder, like

phys stuff, ju- zoom or focus iris built in. That tells me that this is very much oriented at tier one professional market. 113 00:17:19.060 --> 00:17:30.220 You know, um, something like what the ARRI Trinity systems do, you know, where- Mm-hmm... it's like a very high-end phys or a Preston device. This is probably along the same line. Yeah. 114 00:17:30.260 --> 00:17:38.700 And just the, uh, layout of what it entails is the sensor unit, which has all the sensors. You can strap that. They have it pictured on top of the cameras. Uh- It's small. 115 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:48.360 Uh, there is a separate processing box which- Oh... is on the back of the camera. Okay. [laughs] I didn't know that. The sensor is small, but there is a separate processing box you can strap on the back. 116 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:59.992 And then, uh, it does include three lens encoders, but I believe if you are using a Sony camera and with lenses where it can get-The data, then you can just run off that. I don't think you need... 117 00:18:00.092 --> 00:18:07.092 I think lens coders are there only if you're running a lens that- Okay. Okay... cannot, uh, doesn't send the info. Yeah. This, this is just like the Zeiss Cinecraft system. 118 00:18:07.212 --> 00:18:17.612 Uh, the NCAM system also has a auxiliary computer that you- Mm... attach to the back of the camera. So- Yeah, similarly... the fact that Sony built it, it says a lot. Yeah. So what's the... Yeah. 119 00:18:17.682 --> 00:18:27.292 And they have the biggest pipeline of like end-to-end pipeline of using their entire hardware- Yeah... for a virtual production setup. So like what, what are their key points or their key products that they've got? Yeah. 120 00:18:27.352 --> 00:18:35.072 So obviously they have the Sony C LEDs, which are arguably the best LED tiles in the world. If you look... 121 00:18:35.132 --> 00:18:42.462 If you're looking at it from a sheer color performance in-camera quality, I would say the Sony product is better than any of the Chinese products. 122 00:18:42.672 --> 00:18:53.002 Now, if you're looking at it from like a touring, ruggedized, portable, travel-ready version of a tile, perhaps the Roe, Apps and Aoto tiles are better in that sense- Mm... 123 00:18:53.012 --> 00:19:04.132 because they just have more years under their belt. So they have the tile. They definitely have the processor to go with those tiles, but those tiles also work with, as far as I know, like a megapixel processor. 124 00:19:04.492 --> 00:19:13.592 Obviously, they have the cameras, Venice 2- Mm-hmm. Burano. Yeah... the Burano, Cinealtas, all that. Mm-hmm. Um, and now they're adding camera tracking Ocellus. 125 00:19:13.632 --> 00:19:26.092 The only piece that I think is missing in the entire chain is a media server and software to run the stage. It's a stage management software. Mm-hmm. They do have some software. I believe that's more for the Previs. 126 00:19:26.152 --> 00:19:36.052 They have some virtual production software to simulate, uh, prevent, uh, moiré, moiré warnings- Oh, yes. So that's, uh-... and color calibration. It's an unreal plugin. Mm. Mm-hmm. 127 00:19:36.072 --> 00:19:50.842 So if you're running a nDisplay stage, then the plugin complements a, a Sony Venice 2 nicely and so on, but it's not a standalone, uh, pixel generation tool. Mm-hmm. Which they would need a media server- Yeah... 128 00:19:50.872 --> 00:19:52.692 product- Exactly... to make sense to have that. 129 00:19:52.832 --> 00:20:05.072 The thing that makes a media server special is the incredibly high throughput of data read/write speeds, uh, the fact that it has to have multiple outputs, like four 4Ks or whatever- Mm-hmm... 130 00:20:05.082 --> 00:20:14.392 'cause you're just serving a lot of pixels at the same time. The media server also needs to have really strong GPU, sometimes multiple GPUs. Mm-hmm. 131 00:20:14.992 --> 00:20:21.472 And Sony, I, I just heard rumors, this was like a year or two ago, that they were working on something like that. 132 00:20:21.612 --> 00:20:28.852 I even heard that they were working [chuckles] on their own game engine, which is probably just speculation and rumor. Mm. But they could certainly do it, right? 133 00:20:28.912 --> 00:20:37.072 They're a big enough company where they have the ability to do stuff like this. I mean, they have a whole separate arm for ARVR. I don't know how... 134 00:20:37.132 --> 00:20:46.472 I mean, I feel like a lot of, you know, massive companies have like verticals and- Yeah... don't... I'm never quite clear how [chuckles] like collaborative they are if they're just operating in their separate lanes. 135 00:20:46.512 --> 00:20:55.472 Yeah, it's pronounced, uh, Xyn, but it's spelled X-Y-N, and it was their full kind of ARVR design studio- Oh, interesting... for their headsets- Okay... 136 00:20:55.482 --> 00:21:05.872 and for their, uh, mocap solutions, and much more geared towards a, you know, for working in a VR space- Yeah... uh, or developing things for a virtual environment. But, I mean, it... They're... 137 00:21:05.972 --> 00:21:13.212 Like this is a virtual environment and so, you know, honestly, it doesn't sound that far-fetched if you're mentioning like, oh, they might be building their own game engine or something to run- Yeah. 138 00:21:13.272 --> 00:21:27.292 I would say game engine is maybe a wrong term for it, and more like a 3D interpreter, 3D environment where you can, um, have, uh, an accurate digital twin of the stage, placement of where the camera is. 139 00:21:27.372 --> 00:21:35.712 It doesn't have to be super fancy. You know, just taking in, uh, 3D objects, having USDZ support, having basic- Mm... shader support. 140 00:21:35.772 --> 00:21:44.292 I think that's enough for, uh- And, yeah, that doesn't sound like far-fetched with the existing apps and solutions that they've built. Whatever they have already. Yeah. And I mean, they also... 141 00:21:44.452 --> 00:21:51.452 They literally make

gaming devices too. [chuckles] Uh, PlayStation? Yes. Exactly. Yeah, but that, that sounds like it's a whole different- Yeah... department altogether. Yeah. 142 00:21:51.592 --> 00:22:05.372 My sort of caveat here is Sony products tend to be a little bit hard to use. User experience- Mm... is probably not optimized. So if you're gonna release software, is it gonna be easy to use? Mm-hmm. Yeah. 143 00:22:05.612 --> 00:22:12.372 Got that like engineering interface vibe. Yeah. [chuckles] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What do you think, uh... There is no word on pricing about this, but- No... do you... what do you think it's gonna be? 144 00:22:12.472 --> 00:22:23.072 Competitive, similar probably to- Pricing-wise, I'm guessing it's gonna land in the RedSpy range, about 20,000 to 30,000. Yeah, that's similar to, uh, Cinecraft. 145 00:22:23.132 --> 00:22:33.932 Well, the other thing with the trackers is they, most of them also charge ongoing license fees to operate- Yes... yearly, which kudos to ZEISS and our NAB video. They were very open with what the numbers are. So yeah. 146 00:22:34.012 --> 00:22:46.712 Will you feel like something like this too is also gonna have- Absolutely. I, I think every, every tech company realizes now that recurring revenue is the best quality of revenue, so they attach that to everything. 147 00:22:46.852 --> 00:22:52.912 Everything they ship has some kind of subscription. Yeah. I mean, you and I have tons of subscriptions [chuckles] on stuff. Yeah. 148 00:22:52.952 --> 00:23:00.052 You know, on a consumer end, you think, don't think as much about like a subscription for hardware where it's like, "I bought the thing. It should work. I bought it." 149 00:23:00.192 --> 00:23:09.632 But, uh, yeah, for a lot of the higher end- I mean, now it's-... pieces of equipment, it's, uh-... coming to a point where they're attaching subscriptions to automobiles. Yeah, that's crazy. It's crazy. 150 00:23:09.732 --> 00:23:20.712 Like BMW, I think they have something where if you wanna unlock the, like the extra 100 horsepower of the engine, it's a subscription. It's not good. 151 00:23:20.852 --> 00:23:28.532 Like you piss off a lot of- I think I once saw something, I don't remember if it was a joke or not, but that it was like they like display ads on your entertainment system- No way... unless you like turn it off. 152 00:23:28.552 --> 00:23:35.042 Maybe that was a joke. I don't remember which- Yeah... which company [chuckles] that was, but- That was a meme... I... But it's realistic enough where I'm like, "I could believe that if you- Yeah... 153 00:23:35.172 --> 00:23:41.192 told me that was a real story." Right. 'Cause it's kinda gotten a bit out of hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Until someone comes in, uh, like a VIVE Mars. 154 00:23:41.232 --> 00:23:51.612 I know they're not at the tracking caliber of these, but like you buy the VIVE Mars, you got it. You're good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So- It, it... I mean, I, I don't support- Room for just, uh- Yeah... tracking disruption. 155 00:23:51.972 --> 00:24:03.785 I think the subscription should have real value attached to it. So for example, if Sony has a subscription model for this system, then-It should come with some crazy level of support or- Mm... 156 00:24:03.906 --> 00:24:08.206 free upgrade when- whenever they're new unit. I'm just making stuff up, but- Yeah, something... 157 00:24:08.206 --> 00:24:14.516 it should have some value where you're like, "Okay, I don't mind paying that much per year because it is worth it in the long run." Mm-hmm. 158 00:24:14.576 --> 00:24:22.146 Yeah, and when you're at these high levels too, and you're on upstage, and production's costing- You need support... like tens of thousands, hundreds of thousand dollars a day- Yeah... you can't have any downtime. Yeah. 159 00:24:22.176 --> 00:24:36.416 So, like, you gotta pay for that peace of mind if... Like, that's what it's gotta come with. As far as I can tell, uh, Stype, and MoSys, and ZEISS, uh, they charge in addition to the subscription to provide support. 160 00:24:36.496 --> 00:24:45.336 So if you have to have somebody on site- Mm... that's, like, an extra few thousand dollars that you have to write a check for on top of the s- On si- Yeah... I can understand having someone on site, yeah. 161 00:24:45.436 --> 00:24:53.916 Yeah, that's expensive. Yeah. What if you just need, like- Yeah, remote support. Yeah. I'm not sure, maybe that's free with the subscription. Yeah, I'd hope so. [laughs] NAB, so we'll dive into that more. 162 00:24:53.996 --> 00:25:01.526 Yeah, I found out unfortunately, uh, Pixo Akira, which we talked about after CES, thought it was gonna be demoed at NAB, but don't believe it's gonna be demoed at NAB. But that was another... 163 00:25:01.576 --> 00:25:08.816 Talking about, like, wild, um- Well, that-... full-fledged-... that kind of plays into-... tech setup from Sony... yeah, the, the Sony ecosystem of EP hardware. Mm-hmm. 164 00:25:09.156 --> 00:25:16.836 We never found out how much it cost or when it's gonna be available to purchase. No, it seemed like it was if that or if it's just gonna be like a service- Right, a rental thing... 165 00:25:16.846 --> 00:25:26.016 like, yeah, like- JL Fisher dolly, like you just rent it forever. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] Do they sell or do they- They never sell. They never sell? No. They're only... They sell to rental houses? 166 00:25:26.256 --> 00:25:35.416 No, I think every unit is leased. Oh. Yeah. I never realized that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, we tried to buy one. [laughs] They're like, "No, you could lease it for, like, five years." They don't sell them. 167 00:25:35.456 --> 00:25:42.756 They don't sell them. I did not realize that. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. Maybe that's why my school never had one. They had, like, Panther dollies. Exactly. 'Cause you could buy Panther dollies? Yeah. 168 00:25:43.136 --> 00:25:53.616 You can buy pretty much all of their competitors. Huh.

Yeah. Interesting. But they are the best in that game. Yeah. Well, you know, that's actually a good segue [laughs] into the next story. Oh, yeah. 169 00:25:53.796 --> 00:26:01.276 Um, which is, yeah, more kinda crappy news for the Hollywood, and studios, and companies. Two other stories popped up after we kinda did our Technicolor breakdown. 170 00:26:01.636 --> 00:26:09.396 But, uh, the first one is Panavision Hollywood is closing down. So there are two... In LA, there's two Panavision offices. There's Hollywood and there's, uh, Woodland Hills. Mm-hmm. 171 00:26:09.516 --> 00:26:20.646 So Hollywood location's closing down, and there... I know there were layoffs, and, uh, they're moving or con- condensing into the Woodland Hills facility. So it is not a Panavision is going under story- Yeah... 172 00:26:20.676 --> 00:26:31.316 luckily, but they are shrinking. But I think, uh, a big kinda part of that is, like with Panavision- Mm... they never sold cameras. Yeah. It's only been a rental company, um- Kinda like JL Fisher. 173 00:26:31.506 --> 00:26:40.486 [laughs] Yeah, that's why I r- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what, uh, triggered it. So yeah, I mean, compare that to Arri and, you know, especially with the digital- Arri-... transition... RED, Cinema, yeah. 174 00:26:40.536 --> 00:26:47.376 Uh, now Panavision does have digital, like they did... I don't fully know the story, and I mean, it is their own sensor, I believe. Yes. Right? They developed their own. 175 00:26:47.385 --> 00:26:55.636 Yeah, no, they, they were one of the first to have a D cinema sensor. Obviously, their lenses are legendary. Yeah. And you can't buy their lenses either. 176 00:26:55.836 --> 00:27:04.616 No, everything was rental, and that's, you know, the only production that can af- these are tier one high-level productions that- Yeah... can afford Panavision. 177 00:27:04.816 --> 00:27:15.776 And how many of them are happening in and around LA- Mm-hmm... anymore? Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like, yeah, it's a limited business model that, uh, makes it tougher in today's times. 178 00:27:15.936 --> 00:27:27.296 I believe Panavision has offices around the world- Mm-hmm... probably one in London, probably one in Asia, that's, uh, more or less a rental house. Mm-hmm. So maybe those will kinda carry the company. 179 00:27:27.416 --> 00:27:36.536 But this, uh, unfortunately does track and does make sense given the current climate of Los Angeles and the state of California in general. Mm-hmm. 180 00:27:36.696 --> 00:27:43.196 Do you feel like, um, this is another kind of transition or end of, like, Hollywood 1.0, 2.0? 181 00:27:43.516 --> 00:27:54.316 Yeah, I feel really bad for Hollywood 1.0 companies like, you know, Technicolor, Panavision, Warner Brothers, and all those companies that have been around for about 100 years. They're kind of seeing, 182 00:27:55.256 --> 00:28:03.665 uh, the end of the road a little bit here. I don't think this is the end. I think there... you'll see more Hollywood 1.0 companies reach this conclusion. 183 00:28:03.716 --> 00:28:16.516 What I hope for is with the churn, you get a new generation of companies that are able... like Stability AI, and like, that can thrive in M&E in Hollywood, in Los Angeles. Mm-hmm. 184 00:28:16.876 --> 00:28:27.596 Yeah, I mean, I think back to, you know, you see behind-the-scenes photos of, like, from movie sets from, like, the '80s, and it's usually, like, you know, a person on a crane- Yeah... with a Panavision camera. Yeah. 185 00:28:27.676 --> 00:28:34.916 And, uh, you're gonna see the Panavision logo on the magazines was, like, pretty synonymous with, like, big budget Hollywood films. I mean, it's such a legendary brand. 186 00:28:34.956 --> 00:28:42.606 You think they'll ever, like, release a camera they actually sell, like someone could- Would it matter?... buy it? Like, it's a legendary- I mean, to try to compete with, uh-... 187 00:28:42.606 --> 00:28:51.875 brand to us, but to new up-and-coming filmmakers, does it matter if it's a Panavision camera? Yeah, like even up-and-coming of, like, are aware of it or have heard of it. Exactly. 188 00:28:52.036 --> 00:28:56.276 Yeah, I mean, do they release something like an Arri that you can purchase or that you can, that... 189 00:28:56.316 --> 00:29:01.216 I don't know, just something to put it in m- pe- more people's hands, something that's not just- I don't think they have the-... a tier one high-level camera... 190 00:29:01.256 --> 00:29:03.656 yeah, I don't think they have the engineering chops anymore. 191 00:29:03.756 --> 00:29:14.926 They certainly don't have the product chops anymore to develop a camera, productize it, sell it, and have- Or acquire or something and license the name or- That would be my move. It's what Kodak did, right? Mm. 192 00:29:14.956 --> 00:29:24.156 Like, they sold a Kodak name to a bunch of different things. [laughs] You know? [laughs] I wanted to get into more of that on- Yeah... um, when we talk about film and stuff, but it was the craziest thing. 193 00:29:24.236 --> 00:29:35.956 At, uh, CES, there was a Kodak booth, and it was the most insane products that all had the Kodak brand licensed on it. Yeah. Speakers, smart watches- That's what Blockbuster should've done... binoculars. Yeah. Yeah. 194 00:29:36.156 --> 00:29:41.456 Do you think Blockbuster- Like, um-... board game... Blockbuster merch Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] These are still iconic brands. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 195 00:29:41.736 --> 00:29:50.816 Yeah, so downsize but, you know, hopefully there's still room for Panavision, like, such an iconic brand, and- What if Panavision launches an AI studio? I think that- [laughs]... that's how they maneuver out of it. 196 00:29:50.856 --> 00:29:56.496 Panavision has joined the Stability AI board. [laughs] And then other happy Hollywood story, uh, Village Roadshow- Mm... 197 00:29:56.556 --> 00:30:06.386 which, uh, was the production company behind, uh, Joker, Matrix, and a bunch of other

films, uh, has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Bankruptcy doesn't always mean a company's, uh, going out or going out of business. 198 00:30:06.426 --> 00:30:14.076 It- Right... they're in financial trouble and need to restructure. I didn't know this, and they've been around for a long time. Mm-hmm. M- they're not Hollywood 1.0, they're Hollywood 2.0. 199 00:30:14.976 --> 00:30:25.452 Um, I-They have resulted in $19 billion in box office sales. Yeah, covered over 100 films generating more than $19 billion. That's- Yeah... that's amazing. 200 00:30:25.532 --> 00:30:38.002 That, what a track record, uh, for a company like that, and now seeing sort of, uh, hard times. Yeah, I mean, I'm also, Joker 2 was an expensive film that did not do very well- Yeah... at the box office. Yeah. 201 00:30:38.002 --> 00:30:41.162 So that is a big, ah, hit, financial hit, not a financial loss. Special loss. Not a, not a, not a good hit. 202 00:30:41.172 --> 00:30:50.292 I think the, the two companies that kinda took the place of Village Roadshow and also Miramax and some of these- Mm... boutique studios is A24, Neon. 203 00:30:50.532 --> 00:31:02.732 I feel like Village Roadshow did more like, ah, blockbustery kinda films than like a Neon or an A24. Sure. For its time. Like, yeah. Yeah. Like I feel it, like Netflix if anything is kind of- Taking up that space... 204 00:31:02.772 --> 00:31:11.272 taken some of that space. Yeah. Or a lot of these films aren't made anymore, which we've talked about. Yeah. Like, it is kinda rare for like an original- The middle is hollowed out, right? Yeah. It's kinda- Yeah... 205 00:31:11.281 --> 00:31:20.292 rare for like an original IP, you know, 50, $80 million budget kind of film, or $100 million budget film. Yeah, that doesn't exist. That isn't- Yeah... that's new to, for someone to produce now. 206 00:31:20.391 --> 00:31:29.992 Yeah, I keep going back to Keet Tam 'cause he was just so brilliant in saying the middle being hollowed out. Anything under 10 million, 20 million, it's probably self-financed. Mm-hmm. 207 00:31:30.292 --> 00:31:39.722 And then there's nothing in the middle. Or something like an A24 or Neon. Yeah. Yeah. Will, will, will come in and finance it, and then everything up to 100 million doesn't even exist- Yeah... 'cause nobody will fund it. 208 00:31:40.172 --> 00:31:47.832 100 million up is like vote by committee. Now you have Disney- Yeah... or Netflix or whoever, 100 executives trying to figure out what movie that is. Yeah. 209 00:31:48.032 --> 00:31:56.522 We talked about this last time, and then I've been more attuned to like when I hear budgets mentioned on films. And so there were a handful of films that came out now that are in that $50 million range. Mm. 210 00:31:56.532 --> 00:32:03.532 But they're not doing so hot. Yeah. One that I really wanna see, Black Bag, the new Soderbergh film. Okay. Out in theaters now. Okay. I was actually trying to like get a ticket. Yeah. 211 00:32:03.572 --> 00:32:11.432

And then it was like I couldn't find a ticket like a week in advance because the schedules weren't out because, like, everything was so iffy on- On distribution... 212 00:32:11.452 --> 00:32:17.432 how it performs and if they're gonna keep scheduling it, and Snow White's coming out this weekend- Yeah... and all the screens are, like, switching over to that. Oh. 213 00:32:17.492 --> 00:32:23.962 So it's so hard even just to like, I was like, "I'll see this in theaters," but like the window is so short to see it in theaters, it just makes it so hard. 214 00:32:24.032 --> 00:32:34.512 I think at like $50 million you can't afford to give the theaters any money. Like that they're just waiting to bank on VOD or P- P- PVOD, like- Or just, yeah, just get bought. 215 00:32:34.522 --> 00:32:42.522 I think, I think this is a separate conversation- Sell to Netflix or whoever... of just how, um, how tiny the theatrical windows have become. Yeah. Which is a whole other topic and debate. 216 00:32:42.522 --> 00:32:54.142 And it doesn't feel like theatrical windows have fallen in price even though the theater industry is struggling. Prices have been artificially kept up. Like you can- You mean for like a movie ticket? Or- Yeah. 217 00:32:54.142 --> 00:33:02.872 Like movie ticket's a movie ticket, but like how much does it cost the studio to send that movie to 100 theaters? It's probably the same as it was 20 years ago. 218 00:33:02.912 --> 00:33:13.012 Yeah, well, they don't have to strike a print, like, for every screen they wanna send it to. I mean, DCP is- And I think the movie theaters take something like 50% of the ticket revenue. Mm-hmm. 219 00:33:13.252 --> 00:33:21.052 So like, you know, a $12 movie ticket, $6 goes to the theater and $6 to the studio, which is not that much. 220 00:33:21.232 --> 00:33:32.672 Yeah, I mean, I think the studios are doing fine with the model because, ah, it goes to theaters for a few weeks- Yeah... and then it goes to premium video on demand- Yeah... where you pay to rent or buy at home. 221 00:33:32.872 --> 00:33:39.192 That all goes to a stu- the studio. Yeah. It's the theaters that are kinda getting the short end of the shorter windows. Because there's just not enough volume. 222 00:33:39.252 --> 00:33:41.952 There's just not enough people watching it in the first place. 223 00:33:42.032 --> 00:33:48.612 Or, I mean, it's a tough sell too if the window's so short and you see a movie that's coming out in theaters, and then you're like, "Well, do I wanna go to the theaters and go through all that?" 224 00:33:48.712 --> 00:33:57.592 Or like literally if I wait two, three weeks- Yeah... I can buy it at home. For the price of one ticket. Or if I wait for a month it's gonna be on Max or Netflix or- For free... 225 00:33:57.632 --> 00:34:05.302 Disney that I already have my subscription to. Yeah. So yeah, it makes it tough. Or you make a really expensive film like Joker- Yeah... and then it doesn't perform at all. 226 00:34:05.352 --> 00:34:17.992 I think on De-noise we continue to cover how the industry's shifting and kind of shaping itself through this downturn. So yeah, these, this is just kinda to add to the latest development of bad news, unfortunately. 227 00:34:18.172 --> 00:34:26.192 But hopefully we see, like I said, new companies, new techniques, new filmmakers- Yeah, I mean... rise out of it. We've talked about this is a transition time, and it's- Yeah... 228 00:34:26.202 --> 00:34:37.392 crappy when stuff like this happens, but still optimistic of what the shift is with the new tools, and we can make bigger and better things- Yeah... at lower budgets with smaller teams. Yep. Thanks for watching everyone. 229 00:34:37.531 --> 00:34:46.592 Uh, links and everything we talked about, as usual, at denoisedpodcast.com. We mentioned at the beginning of the podcast that we love to see your support. Please continue to support us. 230 00:34:46.812 --> 00:34:53.332 Ah, leave us a five-star review on Spotify, a comment on YouTube, or a five-star review on Apple. Yeah. Thanks everyone. See you on the next episode.