النص الكامل لحلقة Keith Thomas | The First Omen, The Vigil, Firestarter & The Future of Horror

saw Alien, I don't know, 38 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:20.479 probably twelve thirteen, and that that was like I loved 39 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:22.800 the sensation of that, the kind of the look and 40 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:25.840 the feel and the world. And then I tended to 41 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:29.960 in high school get more and more into supernatural horror. 42 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:35.479 I remember renting Suspiria from the video store for like 43 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:38.000 a sleepover. We'd have a sleepover with my friends and 44 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:41.599 we'd you know, eat endless amounts of junk food and 45 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:46.280 drink all this soda and just watch every horror movie 46 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:49.680 that we could find, and Suspiria was one that I 47 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:53.520 was I was like, this is incredible that these movies exist, 48 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:56.319 and that took me kind of on a tear through. 49 00:02:57.879 --> 00:02:59.759 I'm one of those people that once I lock on 50 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:03.800 this something that fascinates me, I'm gonna go all the 51 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:06.439 way with it. I'm gonna look everything up. So once 52 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:08.759 I got a hold of like Italian horror and then 53 00:03:08.759 --> 00:03:13.159 European horror, I was like off to the races and 54 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:15.240 trying to track down every movie I could and I 55 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:20.800 did that through really high school and then college. That 56 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:24.479 all being said, I never had any interest in making one, 57 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:28.360 so it was more just more just an interest in 58 00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:30.479 I enjoyed watching them. 59 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:34.000 Have you been able to pinpoint already years what you 60 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:37.719 think might what was it about the horror genre in 61 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:41.280 particular to kind of capture your imagination or DUI and 62 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:43.800 just as an audience member, Yeah, I. 63 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:47.520 You know, it was a well that I kept coming 64 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:50.719 back to. I enjoyed lots of movies. I've got like 65 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:53.159 a list. It's interesting. I always get a question of 66 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:55.120 like my favorite, like what's your favorite this or your 67 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:58.840 favorite that? And I don't really have favorites. I can't 68 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:01.319 like narrow like what's your favorite band or what's your 69 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:03.719 favorite list? Like I can't do it. But I have 70 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:07.439 like on my phone fifty films that inspired me, like 71 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:13.599 the things that I saw that took me into an 72 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:17.720 interesting headspace or exposed me to something new, And they 73 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:21.199 run the gamut, right, I mean, they're films like, you know, 74 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:25.399 if I want to get pretentious, like Stalker or their films, 75 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:29.199 you know, like new French new look cinema, like those 76 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:32.240 films called Diva that I love and that director has 77 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:35.680 actually done a bunch of great movies. But a lot 78 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.040 of those films on that list of that fifty or 79 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:44.439 horror or horror adjacent I think it is because I'm 80 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:48.439 a I've always been fascinated by pushing boundaries and breaking 81 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:52.560 kind of molds just in general in terms of artistic 82 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:56.160 and thought. And I feel like horror does that in 83 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:59.319 a way that a lot of a lot of films don't, 84 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:02.519 and horror can get away with it, you know, like 85 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:06.480 a film like Texas Chainsaw Massacre is actually it's an 86 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:11.000 incredible film on a lot of levels in terms of production, story, 87 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:14.480 the stuff, but it is a to this day still 88 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:16.839 a shocking film. It will be one hundred years from 89 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:19.759 that when people watch it. It's just there's something so 90 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:25.800 raw and something so just unusual and primal about it. 91 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:29.560 That's the horror genre. Like other movies can't capture that 92 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:33.560 in the same way, and so it always attracted me. 93 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:36.079 It was always like, this is interesting, this is different, 94 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:40.959 like Suspiria. The plot of Suspiria not such a not 95 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:47.680 so complex, not technically that interesting dialogue ouch, but visually 96 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:53.000 and the scares it's almost unsurpassed. That's another one that's 97 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:56.079 going to be around forever. And so it's breaking these 98 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:59.040 sorts of breaking the mold. In a lot of ways. 99 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:03.240 Horror is able to do that because part of horror 100 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:06.279 is to push the audience right, to like get the 101 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.399 audience to experience something something different and take them out 102 00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:12.279 of their comfort zone in a lot of ways. So 103 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.319 I think there was just always something fascinating to me 104 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:15.959 about that. 105 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.879 You mentioned a few minutes ago that it wasn't always 106 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:23.199 your intention to make these things or create these stories. 107 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:26.959 When did that switch for you then? In a serious way, 108 00:06:27.000

--> 00:06:29.839 I guess, because sometimes you know, you'll hear people say, oh, 109 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:32.959 did end up working in the industry and you know, 110 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:34.800 having a career. They might say, like, you know, when 111 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:36.399 I was a teenager, I kind of thought, wouldn't it 112 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:38.519 be cool to be like Steven Spielberg? And then they 113 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:41.040 kind of go away from it, and then as they 114 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:44.519 get older, maybe they end up back in that area 115 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:47.079 and they have a career. From a book, you know, 116 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:49.279 you had mentioned that it wasn't always the intention. So 117 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:52.519 I suppose when did the the light bulb go off 118 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:54.199 or the switch flip? 119 00:06:55.600 --> 00:07:01.720 Yeah, honestly was relatively recently. So I was always fascinated 120 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:06.360 by these movies. Anytime I thought, Okay, maybe I could 121 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:10.639 make them, it just seemed just absurd and too far 122 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:14.000 away and just I don't have any connections. Grew up 123 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:17.399 in Colorado, which is in you know, the rocky mountains 124 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:21.160 of the United States, and how am I gonna How 125 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:23.279 is someone like me going to make movies? Wasn't going 126 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:27.040 to happen. At the same time, like I said, I 127 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:32.079 had this kind of scientific bent, so it was a 128 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:35.480 you know, I spent most of my adult life honestly 129 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:40.839 working in hospitals doing clinical research, and then I always 130 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:43.319 had this creative side, so I had this sort of 131 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:49.920 outlet in terms of writing, and over a period of 132 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:55.519 about ten years that writing it through various ways that 133 00:07:55.560 --> 00:08:00.560 are complex and strange and bizarre and just whatever. People 134 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:05.240 found that writing people in Hollywood, and they suggested that 135 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:08.000 I write a screenplay or at least try my hand 136 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:09.959 at it. I had no idea how to do it, 137 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:13.160 or like I didn't go when I was in college, 138 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.439 I didn't study film production in any way. I did 139 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:19.839 take film classes just as for fun. I took French 140 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:23.399 and Italian cinema. But I had no idea how to 141 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:25.639 write a screenplay. Someone had read something I wrote. It 142 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:29.560 was interestingly attached to Germo del Toro, who I ended 143 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:32.840 up working with later.

But this was more than ten 144 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:37.000 years ago, fifteen years ago now, and so I was like, Okay, 145 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:40.120 I'm going to figure out how to write a screenplay. 146 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:42.240 And like I mentioned earlier, when I get my mind 147 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:45.080 stuck on something, I end up doing the deepest dive. 148 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:47.720 So I read as many screenwriting books as I could, 149 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:49.879 and I was like, these are just ridiculous, like this, 150 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:54.480 I don't need this. So then I just found every 151 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:57.960 script that I could find, And you just scoured the 152 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:00.879 internet for every PDF and I read hundreds of them 153 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:04.720 and took, I guess a scientific approach in a way 154 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:08.080 of like, Okay, what's the structure here, how are these function? 155 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:12.480 How do you make these things? And I started writing screenplays. 156 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:17.279 I occasionally teach screenwriting at a film school where I live, 157 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:19.879 and one of the slides that I show on the 158 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:25.559 very first day is a slide of the first essentially 159 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:30.639 five years of me trying to do this, and I 160 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:32.759 show I kind of have a date and a mark 161 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:37.600 for every script and revision I wrote until I got 162 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:40.559 to the first one that sold, and it took five years. 163 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:44.399 And it was at that five year point when I 164 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:48.159 finally left my hospital job and I was like, I'm 165 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:50.919 going to do this full time. But that wasn't the 166 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:54.279 end of it, because I was writing screenplays and I 167 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:56.360 was lucky enough to sell a couple and set up 168 00:09:56.360 --> 00:09:59.360 a TV show, and blah blah blah. None of those 169 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:04.679 things got made, which is the bane of every screenwriter's 170 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:07.679 existence is the fact that you sell things that five 171 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:11.919 people maybe will ever read. And that was in twenty 172 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:16.759 seventeen when I decided, you know, if I could make 173 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:20.399 my own film, I wouldn't have to rely on other 174 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:23.519 people getting it done or doing it for me. And 175 00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:28.759 so that was when I was like, Okay, I didn't 176 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:30.279 go to film school. I have no idea what the 177 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:35.879 hell I'm doing. But I fired my manager in LA 178 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:38.559 and I just decided I was going to make a 179 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:43.480 short film. And again, what's really fascinating is when you're 180 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:47.879 a screenwriter, you don't necessarily understand production. They are two 181 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:51.519 vastly different worlds. And so that was just a whole 182 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:56.360 other learning curve to make that short film. That short 183 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:59.960 film ended up getting the attention. It didn't play festivals, 184 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.519 It was not a thing other than a sort of 185 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:07.919 calling card, an expensive calling card, and that because I wrote, directed, finance, 186 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:10.240 produced it, I did everything. I painted the walls in it, 187 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:16.840 and it got attention when it led to me making 188 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:18.200 my first film in the Vigil. 189 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.080 It's see like and I love I love hearing it 190 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.679 that way because I think that's the truest form of 191 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:29.159 like how a lot of these stories come to be. 192 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:32.000 You know a lot of people look at Instagram videos 193 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:35.360 and they see a fifteen second like montage of how 194 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:37.320 easy it was and you're on a red carpet and 195 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.759 everything is great. You know, when they forget about all 196 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:43.600 the all the nose, all the soul screenplays that just 197 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:47.840 disappear into obscurity, all the deals that seem like they're happening, 198 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:50.519 the amount of times I hear about those stories like 199 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:54.120 behind the scenes where it seems like something's like right 200 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:56.799 on the cuss of being ready to go, and it's 201 00:11:56.840 --> 00:11:59.120 just everything just goes away and it's like, oh yeah, 202 00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:00.919 now I've got to like it all over again and 203 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:03.919 do something else. So you have multiple plates spinning and 204 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:09.759 they all just seem to crash all well afterevery. 205 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:11.360 And it never changes that. That's how it starts and 206 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.720 that's how it continues. Every director probably has at least 207 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:19.399 ten projects going at any particular time, and you never 208 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:22.039 know which one is actually going to get made because 209 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:25.480 nine of them won't, and nine of them are zombie 210 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:28.360 projects that have existed for years and they're just shuffling 211 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:32.360 along slowly, rotting in your face. Others come out of 212 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:35.600 the blue and you're like, I never intended to be 213 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.639 part

of this, but here it is. So you know 214 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:43.440 it is that never changes. Even with folks where they 215 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:48.159 get very successful, they still they are still pushing the 216 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:49.080 rock up the hill. 217 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:52.159 You mentioned del Toro a minute ago. I'm like, there's 218 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:54.840 a guy who I think people nearly fall off the 219 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:57.679 chair when they hear him say things like they still 220 00:12:57.759 --> 00:12:59.600 won't let me make the movies I want to. 221 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:04.360 Make, Yeah, like Mountains of Madness. Yeah he looked El 222 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:06.919 Toro's incredible and working with him was one of the 223 00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:10.759 highlights so far of my career for sure. But yeah, 224 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:14.960 he has fought so many battles from the beginning. I mean, 225 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.600 he made Cronos, which is the you know, can feel 226 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.480 that he had a lot more control over building, the 227 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:26.759 devices and story and everything. And then Mimic was you know, 228 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:29.919 an epic battle that like that changed him. It was 229 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:32.279 a gauntlet. You know. He went into that movie one director, 230 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:36.080 he came out another, and it changed his entire worldview. 231 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.200 It's it is just a never ending battle. 232 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:45.799 This is kind of a big question, I guess in moment, 233 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:49.919 But any advice for someone like following a dream, It 234 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:53.120 doesn't even have to be related to being writer director, 235 00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:54.960 even in the film industry at all. But like, there's 236 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:58.000 so many people out there that I think have a 237 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:00.600 passion or a goal or something inside of that never 238 00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:04.320 quite goes away. But I feel like you know, I 239 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:08.360 don't know if it's like a case of it's not 240 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:10.320 I don't want to say it's not who's good, but 241 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:12.159 like a lot of times, it's who's left, like who's 242 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:14.759 willing to put in the miles, who's willing to actually 243 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:16.559 see you? True, because it's very easy on your first 244 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:18.759 stumble or maybe even your second stumb and go, you 245 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:21.639 know what, I've had two rejections or I've had like 246 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:24.440 two you know, bad experiences that I'm finished. And a 247 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:27.840 lot of people, I think, fall into that trap because 248 00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:30.919 they're sold the idea that well, you know, if you 249 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:32.960 really want to do it and you really put it, 250 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.159 you're all into it like the first time, it'll all 251 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:37.200 work out, and then you find out that you know, 252 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:40.440 you mentioned like you're talking about fifteen years ago, and 253 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:43.080 a lot of people would assume from the outside looking 254 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:44.759 in that you're coming out party is only in the 255 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:47.480 last handful of years, and it's like, dude, I've been 256 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:48.399 over here. 257 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:53.120 Yeah, I've been working on this a long time, grinding. Yeah. Yeah, 258 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:58.480 And that's true for everyone. There is no believable overnight success. 259 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:02.000 It doesn't work that way. And so I have a story. 260 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:05.200 I think that's a good kind of representative of this. So, 261 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.840 like I said, I was writing before screenwriting and working 262 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:13.039 on books, and I published some novels. The way the 263 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:15.519 book industry, well, the publishing industry, at least the way 264 00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:18.279 it worked a while ago. It's a little changed now, 265 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:21.879 but typically you have to have a literary agent to 266 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:25.919 sell your book to a publisher, especially a major publisher. 267 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:29.840 You can't just submit your manuscript, right. So you write 268 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:31.720 your book, you pour your heart and your soul into 269 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:34.879 this thing. You try to get it ready, you edit it, 270 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.639 whatever you do, and then you need to go out 271 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.320 to these literary agents. And at any given time there's 272 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.639 probably one hundred of them that are legit. If you 273 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.279 have to pay a literary agent, then that's a scam. 274 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:49.320 They should just take your work and sell it and 275 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:52.080 then they make They take ten percent of what you make. 276 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:55.519 But you can't just get a literary agent. You have 277 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:59.759 to send a letter to them saying who are who 278 00:15:59.799 --> 00:16:02.039 you are, why you wrote this book. It's a one 279 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:06.120 page thing, it's called a query letter, and you send 280 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:08.559 that and if they're interested, then they will read the 281 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:11.240 first chapter of your book. If they like that, then 282 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:13.879 they'll ask you to send the rest. So I wrote 283 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:17.559 a book, my first novel. I had written short

fiction, 284 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.559 I had been able to publish that, and I wrote 285 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:23.840 this book. It wasn't great, but I finished it. It 286 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:25.919 was like two hundred something pages. I was like, oh 287 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:29.039 my god, I'm I did it. And then I was like, 288 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:31.879 I'm going to get this thing published. And so I 289 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:35.639 wrote to all hundred at the time of the literary 290 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.600 agents in New York City, because that's where publishing is 291 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:45.639 at least for the States. And I got ninety seven rejections, 292 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:51.080 just outright form letters. I got two that were interested 293 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.480 in looking at the first chapter then rejected it. And 294 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:56.120 then I got one that asked for like the first 295 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.759 half of the book and then rejected it. And that's 296 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.279 your cook. At that point, what are you going to do? 297 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:06.000 You can either self publish it or that the agents 298 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.640 are done. They've seen you, they've read you, they don't 299 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:13.480 like you. And I could have said, okay, that's it. 300 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:17.240 But what I did instead was I took every one 301 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:21.680 hundred letters. I put them on the wall in front 302 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:24.400 of my desk so that I would stare at them 303 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:28.279 every single time I sat down to write. I find 304 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:36.640 it if you keep telling yourself that you can do this, 305 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:40.039 that you're amazing, that there's a genius inside of you 306 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:43.119 and you're going to get this thing done. I find 307 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:46.799 you fail more often if you push yourself and you 308 00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:51.319 say you actually suck and you're not there yet, You're 309 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:55.359 going to have more success because you have to have 310 00:17:55.519 --> 00:18:01.440 the thickest skin imaginable. And it's not necessarily that you 311 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:04.359 have to get used to insults and all this stuff. 312 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.759 You just have to ay not be precious about your work. 313 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:11.400 You have to be willing to collaborate. You have to 314 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:13.920 be willing to take criticism, which is this is the 315 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:17.000 number one thing. I can't tell you how many screenplays 316 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:20.400 I get sent to me or when I'm teaching that 317 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:25.480 students submit that they're like, they're beaming and they're like, 318 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:28.000 this is incredible. You're gonna love this. I

bet you're 319 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.000 going to want to send this to your agent and 320 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:31.680 you're going to want to send this producers. And I 321 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:35.279 read it and it's terrible. The worst thing for me 322 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:38.559 to say to them would be, this is really great. 323 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:43.160 It just needs a little work. They need the drop, 324 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:46.200 they need the push, They need to be knocked down 325 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.400 in your head. You're the smartest person in the room. 326 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:52.200 In your head, you're the best writer ever. In your head, 327 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:57.759 you have the most incredible idea. It's not true to 328 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.920 get the best idea. To get yourself to that next level, 329 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.559 you have to put it into the world and it 330 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.119 has to be beaten up, dragged through the streets and 331 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:10.039 come back and if it survives that, it might actually 332 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:13.640 be a pretty good idea. But until you can take it, 333 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:16.240 you can't make it. I didn't mean to rhyme there, 334 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:18.880 but that's just the you know, one of those things. 335 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:21.960 The second piece I would add to that. I can't 336 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:23.680 tell you how many folks I meet who are like, 337 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:26.279 I want to be a filmmaker. I don't care what 338 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:28.720 I just want to make movies, right. I want to 339 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:30.799 be like a Spielberg. I want to do this genre 340 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:32.119 and I want to do with this, and I want 341 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:33.720 to do a you know, I want to do a 342 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:37.640 serious movie and an action movie and a comedy. That 343 00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:42.279 is an incredibly difficult way to get in. I'm sure 344 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:44.839 you could kind of do the film school route, make 345 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.559 music videos, which are fewer and fewer these days are commercials, 346 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:51.200 and then kind of be a journeyman director and kind 347 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:54.640 of be the technical director. But if you want to 348 00:19:54.680 --> 00:20:00.799 direct something that you care about, it's less about being 349 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:04.160 a director and more about having one story that you 350 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:06.920 want to tell, and that's it. Just focus on that, 351 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:12.000 there's one story that I really want to tell. And 352 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.400 if you beat that story up and you you know, 353 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.880 shop that story, you workshop it, and you're able to 354 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.680 take criticism and you're able to

put it through the 355 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:23.319 wringer and it comes out the other side and it's okay, 356 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:25.960 and people are like, this is pretty good. Then that's 357 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.599 the focus. I'm going to make this one thing. This 358 00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:31.039 is it. This is a story that needs to be told. 359 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:37.440 Your odds go up significantly. Then if you're like scattershot shotgunning, 360 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:39.799 I'm going to have this script and that script and 361 00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:41.960 I'm gonna tell this story, it just becomes weaker and 362 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.839 weaker with each one that you're dissipating your energy into. 363 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:50.599 You mentioned the Vigil and you know I had said, 364 00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:54.440 obviously for a lot of people, that was your kind 365 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:57.240 of coming out party as such. Is that what that 366 00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:59.480 project was to you? You know, you mentioned having passion 367 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:03.240 and something the idea of, well, okay, if I make 368 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.920 something myself, if I like, if I write this story 369 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:09.640 if I write this screenplay, and I also I am 370 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:13.640 the one in charge of getting that off the page 371 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:18.720 and on the screen. Did that start out from the 372 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:20.079 get go with that intention? 373 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:23.720 Yeah, it did. Again, it came from a place of 374 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:27.960 kind of frustration and banging your head against the wall, 375 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.640 which I guess is kind of a good place to 376 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:35.640 get creatively. You know. It's the classic thing of a 377 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:39.119 band that has a really amazing first album, their second 378 00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:42.160 album not as great because they got comfortable right and 379 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:44.839 they were like, hey, you're rich now and we're touring, 380 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:47.359 we have all these fans. You start listening to the fans, 381 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.720 which is another terrible idea because you get a big 382 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:53.200 head and blah blah blah. But so I had done 383 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:57.559 my short film Our Caane, and the intention was to 384 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.160 make a film of Our Cane. Our Cane was it's 385 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:02.839 a proof of concept, like a first five minutes of 386 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:05.480 a feature. And I wrote that script and I'd kind 387 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:07.640 of shopped it around and it ended up in this 388 00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:12.000 It's still around even to this day now, almost ten 389 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:16.279 years later. It's still floating through various stages of being made. 390 00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:19.359 But it was just stuck. It got into a rut 391 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:21.279 and I was like, well, I made the short film. 392 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.839 Let me go back to the drawing board. I had 393 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:29.319 this idea for the vigil kind of floating around for 394 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:33.079 a while. I kind of solidified it. Wrote the script 395 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:36.440 pretty quickly with the intention of doing it the same 396 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:38.720 way I did the short. I was just going to 397 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:43.319 somehow scrape together like fifty thousand dollars. I had a 398 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:47.319 house to use, a friend's house, I had local cast, 399 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:49.400 and I was like, I'm just going to do this. 400 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.000 And my manager, who is still my manager today, was like, listen, 401 00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:57.839 this is interesting. Let me just see. Let me just 402 00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:00.519 test the waters before you go off and do this yourself. 403 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:05.960 So it gotten attention. The script got attention from some producers, 404 00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:08.519 one of whom offered me a bunch of money to 405 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:11.759 buy it, but then wanted to make it into some big, 406 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:16.400 like ten million dollar special effects extravaganza and wouldn't let 407 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:20.039 me direct. And I was like, nah, sorry, buddy. And 408 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.880 then my manager was like, I know these two guys 409 00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:27.799 who their company called Boulder Light, and they at the 410 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:32.000 time Rafi and JD who are now famous for weapons 411 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:35.839 and Barbarian and all these things. At the time, they 412 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:39.880 had been making small independent horror movies, like a super 413 00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:42.680 low budget under a million dollars, under five hundred thousand dollars. 414 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:45.519 And they were young. They were both kids, like they're 415 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:51.559 in their mid or mid twenties, and they read The 416 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.759 Vigil and they were like who is this guy? Like 417 00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:56.519 who wrote this? Like who is this guy? So they 418 00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:58.079 were like, you gotta we got to meet with you. 419 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.079 So I went and hung out with them, and we 420 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.599 kind of knew right away. It was like okay, yeah, 421 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.240 And they were like, Keith, here's the deal, Like, we're 422 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:09.759 going to suggest some changes to the script, like take 423 00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:11.359 it out of where you said it, because I know 424 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:13.279 you have your house and your

buddies and whatever. But 425 00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:16.359 let's move it to New York. Let's set it there, 426 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.519 let's do it, do it in a bigger way. We're 427 00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:21.759 going to get the money. We're going to pull this together, 428 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:25.319 and this is going to be for you, your first feature 429 00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:29.640 and for us step up into like let's let us 430 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.880 make something a little more serious than what we've been doing. 431 00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:38.279 And so so yeah, it came together. This was everyone 432 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:41.279 will say this about their first film. I'm sure Cray 433 00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:45.519 Barker will say it about Obsession, and came about back rooms. 434 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:48.599 But your first film is the film where you have 435 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.119 kind of all the time in the world to write 436 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.680 that script. No one's technically waiting for it. You know, 437 00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:57.440 you're writing it on spec. And then, especially if it's 438 00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:00.880 an independent production like that, you have all this control 439 00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:03.440 that you're never ever in your life going to have again, 440 00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:07.920 just because of the industry and the way it works. 441 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.720 But the vigil I wrote that script, from the time 442 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:15.839 that I wrote the final draft of that script to 443 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:21.200 the time we had finished the post production was nine months, 444 00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:26.000 which is like, yeah, it's weirdly prophetically like a baby, 445 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:29.640 it's unheard of. It really was unheard of. It just 446 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:34.119 came together in such a perfect way when you just 447 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.160 everything's in sync and we could feel it on set 448 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:38.000 even after the first day of shooting, you just like, 449 00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:40.680 this is working. We had no idea what was going 450 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:42.480 to happen with the movie. Is it even going to 451 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:44.359 get released? I don't know, But we were just having 452 00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:47.079 fun making it. But yeah, it was. It was me 453 00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:50.839 responding to getting stuck, which I hate, I hate, I 454 00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:54.960 hate projects getting stuck. So I was like, Okay, I'm 455 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:58.920 just going to write this thing that is makeable. Yeah, 456 00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:03.160 it's literally one to two people in a house over 457 00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:06.160 a real time in a very contained setting, like that's 458 00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:10.799 very doable budget wise. And then it was just a 459 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.839 story that

was a very personal story to me to tell. 460 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.640 So it's just kismet. 461 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:19.440 I was actually a little bit interested by that. You know, 462 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:24.000 you mentioned the story and the lower and stuff behind it, 463 00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:29.440 Like I remember the movie coming out, and it's very 464 00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:32.680 strange to go see something like that and somehow feel 465 00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:35.000 like I'm like fel like I'm already in a universe 466 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:37.799 that exists, even though I'm seeing everything for the first time. 467 00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:42.039 Did you have like a you know, how much thought 468 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:46.440 was put into the lower and things that were at play? 469 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:48.519 Did you have like a bible for that when you're 470 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:50.680 going in to write the story or how does that work? 471 00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:58.759 Yeah, it was very very researched. I growing up, I 472 00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:03.519 had being wish, I had studied, and I was familiar 473 00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:05.920 with the lore, and I had spent I'm not Orthodox 474 00:27:06.039 --> 00:27:08.119 or was not never in the Orthodox community, but I 475 00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:11.599 had spent some time with some of those folks in Brooklyn, 476 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:13.759 and I kind of knew that world a little bit. 477 00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:17.359 And I do have family that's on that side of things, 478 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:21.240 So when I started writing the story, I thought, I'm 479 00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:24.279 going to make this as immersive as possible. One of 480 00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:27.000 the kind of guiding things for me for that, which 481 00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:30.559 is like all the work that I work on, is 482 00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:34.640 I like stories where you're thrust into a world and 483 00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:39.400 it feels fully fleshed out and the mythology is established 484 00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:42.079 and you are kind of learning as the characters learn, 485 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:44.599 or you're just kind of in it, versus the sort 486 00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:47.720 of outsider going in like that just leads to so 487 00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:51.720 much exposition and stuff. So I thought, well, we got 488 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:55.519 a small budget. My producers on the film or Orthodox, 489 00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:58.759 and they know this world, they know this community, they 490 00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:02.680 have a bunch of family here. And one of the 491 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:08.480 strange aspects of developing the vigil in Judaism, there isn't 492 00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:12.039 a ton of there's not a ton of ghost lore 493 00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:17.519 and supernatural stuff. It just doesn't exist, mostly because in 494 00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:20.880 Judaism there isn't hell, right, There's not a hell the 495 00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:24.160 same way there is in Christianity, and there isn't a devil, 496 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:28.640 so you don't have demons being coming out of hell 497 00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:32.240 to do the devil's bidding and all that stuff. So 498 00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:34.160 that made it a little tricky. It's easier when you 499 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:39.359 have that sort of setup. But just through happenstance, through 500 00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:44.799 some people I knew. I met a rabbi who studied demonology, 501 00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:46.519 and I was like, first of all, I didn't know 502 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.119 that existed, But second of all, I was like, oh 503 00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:51.640 my god, I got to talk to this guy, and 504 00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:56.279 he gave me this whole rundown on Jewish demonology, most 505 00:28:56.279 --> 00:29:01.359 of it being pretty old school like archaic stuff. So 506 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:04.559 everything that's in the Vigil, at least in the lore 507 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.480 of the Mazic, the demon in the movie, is all real. 508 00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:10.119 There was one time I was in Brooklyn. I was 509 00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:12.519 on the phone with the special effects team and I 510 00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:14.480 was talking about the Mozic and I happened to walk 511 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.119 past some ultra Orthodox people and I said the word Mosic, 512 00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:21.039 and they like they were like spooked. They're like, whoa, 513 00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.680 that's weird. The name has the main need. It means destroyer, 514 00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:28.240 which is just the dopest Just being called the destroyer 515 00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:33.000 is awesome. But these days that a lot of people 516 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:35.240 kind of refer to, like if a kid is acting up, 517 00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:37.160 like don't be such a little Mozic, Like that's kind 518 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:39.079 of how it. It's kind of lost its teeth, and 519 00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:42.640 I was like, I'm bringing the Mosic back. So anyway, 520 00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:49.599 the lore describes the Masic sadly as an entity that 521 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:54.279 inhabits empty houses, like a kind of ghost, Like, don't 522 00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:55.920 go in that house. There could be a Mosic. The 523 00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:57.640 way you know there's a Mosic in there is you 524 00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:00.559 would put flour in front of the house. And if 525 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:03.920 the next day you saw chicken feet footprints, there's a mazic. 526 00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:07.359 And I was like, well, ghosts with chicken feet, that's 527 00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:11.039 gonna be tough to make scary. So so I had 528 00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:13.680 to kind of I took the lore and all of 529 00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:15.720 the lore you hear in the movie

in terms of 530 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.480 how the Masic functions and in terms of the videotape 531 00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:21.759 they watch in the basement, that's all very real. But 532 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:24.119 I had to create the look of the Mosic to 533 00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:29.119 give it something else. But yeah, we Authenticity was huge 534 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:31.880 for us in that and every aspect of the film. 535 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:36.079 From the opening where we see Dave Davis, our main character, 536 00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.720 at a table with a bunch of people who've left 537 00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:41.759 the community. Every single person at that table other than 538 00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.000 Dave are people who actually left the community. They're all legit. 539 00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:48.400 And that was like yes, they're reading lines that I wrote, 540 00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:51.720 but they're doing it from their own perspective, and I 541 00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:55.839 spent time with them. The house that we spent all 542 00:30:55.880 --> 00:30:58.160 our time in, that is a house that was owned 543 00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.960 by an Orthodox women who passed away. As she passed 544 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:02.880 away just a few weeks before we went into that house. 545 00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:05.880 That's her carpeting, those are her curtains, that's a lot 546 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:09.720 of her furniture. We wanted it to be as specific 547 00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:14.960 as possible, and so we had advisors from the community, like, oh, 548 00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.440 we wouldn't have that painting there, we would have this, 549 00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:20.039 we would have that. These clothes need to look like this. 550 00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:25.839 I just felt like, like when I watched The Exorcist, 551 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.279 I love the Exorcist. I don't necessarily get the Exorcist 552 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:35.000 just because I wasn't raised with that. My father was Christian, 553 00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:37.599 but I wasn't raised in that, so I don't know it, 554 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.720 but I still love it. I get it. I get 555 00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:44.319 what the prayers mean, I get what the exorcism does. 556 00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:47.880 I understand even though I'm not understanding the words or 557 00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:51.480 the motions or the symbolism, I get the point of it. 558 00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:53.680 And so that was the idea here. I was like, yeah, 559 00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:57.079 people probably won't understand these Hebrew prayers. I wasn't even 560 00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:03.160 gonna bother translating them. What's the point, get it. It's 561 00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:06.160 just like I'm gonna thrust you into this world and 562 00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:11.279 you'll experience it. Some stuff you'll understand, some stuff you won't. 563 00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:15.319 But ultimately, my thought in the producers as well, was like, 564 00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:19.079 if we make it scary, and if we deliver on 565 00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:21.680 the stuff we want to DELI there's an emotional undercurrent, 566 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:26.720 it's gonna be human, regardless of whatever clothing it's wearing. 567 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.359 You know, you mentioned scary, and I can vividly remember 568 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:34.640 seeing this thing in the movie theater here, and it 569 00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:38.039 was one of those like you know, I see everything 570 00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:41.240 from all the genres a lot of times, so it's 571 00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:44.000 not I'm not trying to do that, Like movies don't 572 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.839 do anything to me, and I don't feel I'm too 573 00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:49.079 cool to be scared, but like you know, it's very 574 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:51.839 rare where I a lot of movies don't really elicit 575 00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:54.279 I feel I enjoy them, but they don't necessarily scare 576 00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:57.319 me or whatever. And that was a movie that reminded 577 00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:01.720 me of that weird commune feeling that I got when 578 00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:05.039 I saw paranormal activity where it felt like everybody was 579 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:08.400 collectively holding their breath for some reason and nobody really 580 00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:11.440 knew why, And I remember that stuck with me for 581 00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:13.400 a long time. I was like, huh, I feel like 582 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:17.960 they've hit some sort of nerve here. And you know, 583 00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:20.519 I don't want to say when I mentioned something like 584 00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.680 the conjuring universe, I don't mean to put it. I 585 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.920 don't mean to put it in the same exact context 586 00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:28.119 as that, but in the sense of like an expanded 587 00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:31.759 universe I felt at the time. I was like, there 588 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:34.839 is no way that we won't revisit some sort of 589 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:38.119 universe or lower or there's got to be something else 590 00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:42.160 to this. Was that ever? Did that ever come up 591 00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:42.920 at any point? 592 00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:46.559 It has. It's come up several times, and I have 593 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:51.400 worked on other projects that delve into Some of them 594 00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:56.519 have been similar territory. Others have been more directly connected 595 00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:01.519 to this one. But yeah, it's there's definitely It's one 596 00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:05.240 of those things where after the vigil, I was like, Okay, 597 00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:08.800 let's let's dig into more Jewish kind of monsters, like 598 00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:12.159 what other stuff, And

they're just they're not many of them, 599 00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:15.679 which is sad, just because of the whole. There's not 600 00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:17.960 a pantheon that you have with other things. There's the 601 00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:21.679 Gollum and I have worked on a Gollumn project there 602 00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:24.639 you know, there are other demons and things like that. 603 00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:28.119 But yes, it's something that I have worked on, and 604 00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:31.079 of course I talk to the guys at Boulder Lights 605 00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:36.000 frequently and it's something we're still we still are batting around, 606 00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:42.119 you know, whether it's like Vigils vigil too or something versus, 607 00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.559 you know, just kind of a shared space of this stuff. 608 00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:49.599 I think about it a lot there, and it's just, 609 00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:52.840 you know, for me, it's always about like how do 610 00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:55.440 I what's the best way to do it? What's the 611 00:34:55.480 --> 00:35:00.239 best way in that movie? And I'm very humbled by 612 00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:04.880 how successful it has been in terms of just what 613 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.960 it did, because you know, when we made it, we had, 614 00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:10.760 like I said, no idea, Like I was just trying 615 00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:14.440 to survive every day shooting. This was a situation where 616 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:16.719 I was literally, like I said, I didn't grow up. 617 00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:18.760 I liked movies, but I didn't really know how to 618 00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:21.440 make them. I had to watch behind the scenes videos 619 00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:25.360 because I didn't actually believe directors yelled action like I 620 00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:27.760 didn't that seemed corny, and I was like, that's not 621 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:31.480 a real thing. So I was just learning as we 622 00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:33.440 were going, and I was just like, I know what 623 00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:35.599 I want to see when I look in this lens. 624 00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:39.679 I know the story that I want to tell. I 625 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:41.440 just need to try to capture it. And of course, 626 00:35:41.960 --> 00:35:45.800 like any film, regardless of budget, it is a battle 627 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:48.679 in the trenches because of course things are gonna go 628 00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:53.480 absolutely totally sideways, and they did on the Vigil, they 629 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:55.280 did on my short film. My short film was two 630 00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:58.199 day shoot and things went wrong both days. It's just 631 00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:02.239 par for the course. But I was just lucky enough 632 00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:05.320 to survive making it. I hadn't slept. It was just 633 00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:11.920 eighteen days of chaos. And then to see the kind 634 00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:14.599 of life that it's had. I mean, we shot it 635 00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:18.239 in twenty eighteen, and it's the fact that you know 636 00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:20.880 it's still out there getting it, you know. I get 637 00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:25.119 messages from filmmakers all the time. Obviously Germo was a 638 00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:29.880 big fan, and John Carpenter and Tarantino. It's it's wild 639 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:33.559 to me, absolutely wild. I can't I'm like, I don't know. 640 00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:37.480 But that's the other part of this kind of creative industry. 641 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:41.519 You make these things. You have your intentions, and then 642 00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:44.719 once they're done and they're out, they're not yours anymore, 643 00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:47.840 you know, they're everyone's going to have their own reaction 644 00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:49.719 and do their own thing. I was lucky that people 645 00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:50.800 reacted positively. 646 00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:56.000 So there is still some potential maybe or people who 647 00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:59.960 were fans of the movie that maybe something else connected 648 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:02.599 to whether it be a sequel, it's been off, something 649 00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:04.960 in the universe may still have legs. 650 00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:08.440 Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, there's a number of I've 651 00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:10.599 got them sitting on this laptop right here. 652 00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:16.559 The release of like, looking back on the movie now, 653 00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:20.400 I want to say the release was staggered, right because 654 00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:24.159 I remember, like, so I'm in Ireland and I'm pretty 655 00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:28.880 sure that we got the movie before it came out 656 00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.840 in a lot of other places, which is normally the opposite, 657 00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:33.599 where like we're having to wait and like I see 658 00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:35.679 everyone post on social media going, oh my god, this 659 00:37:35.719 --> 00:37:38.039 new movie is so good, and I'm like, ah, I've 660 00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:40.639 got a wait like three months, or I've got away 661 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:43.119 two weeks, or there's like you know, everyone else gets 662 00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:44.800 the release and then we get it a month later 663 00:37:44.840 --> 00:37:48.159 and everyone's already spoiled everything. For me, that staggered release. 664 00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:52.599 Was that a strategic thing? And I suppose on the 665 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:55.239 flip side of that, do you feel like that that 666 00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:59.119 may be hurt the potential for Like, every time I 667 00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:02.440 look at the movie, I'm like, I'm not sure how 668 00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:07.480 this movie didn't end up in the kind of stratosphere

669 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:09.719 of things like the back rooms or whatever, because it 670 00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:11.480 has that. And I'm not just saying that because we're 671 00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:14.880 having this conversation, but like I said it, I remember 672 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.880 I went to the theater to see it twice and 673 00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:21.960 both times it was that same feeling where I felt 674 00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:23.800 I was like, I don't know, I've seen this already, 675 00:38:23.800 --> 00:38:27.079 and why do I feel like I'm going And I 676 00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:30.199 felt like everybody else was also doing that, which is 677 00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:31.800 a kind you know, I see a lot of stuff, 678 00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:36.880 and you know, I'm in screens every week, and you know, 679 00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:39.440 I enjoy it, but I don't a lot of times 680 00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:41.760 it doesn't give me any sort of real feeling. 681 00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:47.440 Yeah, thank you it. So it wasn't intentional. It was 682 00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:53.159 very much a combination of COVID and then just kind 683 00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:57.760 of distribution stuff. So the film premiered at Toronto in 684 00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:01.880 twenty nineteen. September twenty nineteen, and yeah, it got a 685 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:05.880 great reception, and we sold the film internationally and then 686 00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:09.760 had a domestic US distribution deal in the works, and 687 00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:13.639 then I took it to Sitches in Spain, and we 688 00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:17.000 went to France, and so it was building up its momentum, 689 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:19.159 and then it was going to the US premiere was 690 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:22.599 going to be at south By Southwest, and COVID shut 691 00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:26.840 it down, and so once that happened, so it ended 692 00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:32.159 up getting this kind of smaller release worldwide when theaters 693 00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:35.760 started coming back online and things started happening before the 694 00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:39.519 domestic release, so it kind of had some stuff happening 695 00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:43.719 in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty. Then it disappeared until twenty 696 00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:47.440 twenty one, and that's when it showed up here in 697 00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:50.280 the state. So it had this very stagger release and 698 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:53.920 there was some distribution changes that happened behind the scenes. 699 00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:56.880 It was just, you know, honestly, one of the most 700 00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:59.559 interesting aspects of it. I don't know if this would 701 00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:03.360 happen today, maybe it still would. But there was a 702 00:40:03.400 --> 00:40:07.440 lot of interest from like Netflix and A twenty four 703 00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:10.880 was very interested in the movie and Neon and but 704 00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:15.960 the streaming side of things ended up being they were 705 00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:19.519 very concerned about the subtitles, the fact that it was 706 00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:21.840 had a bunch of Yiddish in it, and so that 707 00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.760 ended up they treated it kind of like a foreign 708 00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:27.920 film in a way, So that ended up kind of 709 00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:31.880 changing some of that just how it got released. But 710 00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:36.159 it's been Yeah, it just has very thin but long 711 00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:40.079 legs in terms of in terms of it just people 712 00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:42.719 keep discovering it. So it'll be curious to see how 713 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:46.280 long that lasts. Like I said, I people reach out 714 00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:49.960 all the time about it and you know it. You know, 715 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.679 it's gotten some Blu ray releases, there's some like interesting 716 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:57.000 special edition ones, and it's just this just constantly moving 717 00:40:57.159 --> 00:41:01.559 thing that I love. And so that's the other part 718 00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:06.840 of like how do you do another vigil? I don't 719 00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:09.239 I want it to be true to that one if 720 00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:11.000 there was a sequel or if it's one of these 721 00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:15.159 tangential things, And a part of me is a little 722 00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:19.280 paralyzed by that, I'll admit of Like, I mean, we've 723 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.360 all seen them where you have the first movies you 724 00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:24.639 know everyone loves, and the second is like, oh, why 725 00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:27.880 did you do this? So it's like that's a that's 726 00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:31.000 a tough aspect and the longer time goes on, and 727 00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:34.159 the more people talk about the movie, the more pressure 728 00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:36.119 there is in some ways, so part of me, I 729 00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:37.559 have to like get my head out of it a 730 00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:40.519 little bit and just be like, for I do have 731 00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:43.880 this concept that I really really love that would be 732 00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:49.559 this sort of continuation of that story. It's just a 733 00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:52.840 me getting the story right and then be me finding 734 00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:57.000 the right people to do it with, because again, that's 735 00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.719 where things that's where you can where you start losing controls, 736 00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:02.800 where things start going off the rails, you. 737 00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:05.159 Know, and to kind of I still segue on from 738 00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:07.719 that to have a movie like that, and it's kind 739 00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:10.480 of like you're,

as far as you know, the mainstream 740 00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:15.000 audience is concerned, You're coming out party and it to 741 00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:21.559 be received so well by audiences, and then you know, 742 00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:23.880 you mentioned kind of now being paralyzed by the idea 743 00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:26.599 of like this thing doesn't want to go away in 744 00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:28.679 a sense, and like I'm not saying you would want 745 00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:30.960 it to, but you know that you have to be 746 00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:33.280 conscious then of like, Okay, so how do we best 747 00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:36.199 proceed next from here? We don't want to just make 748 00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:39.679 something just because people seem to resonate with the original 749 00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:45.480 when you first come into conversations with Firestarter? 750 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:46.360 Is that? 751 00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:49.079 And that was one of the things that instantly I 752 00:42:49.159 --> 00:42:50.639 thought about when I knew we were going to speak. 753 00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:53.599 I was like, Okay, what are the first thoughts there? 754 00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:57.239 Because I'm like, instantly I'm like wow, Firestarter. And then 755 00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:00.320 and this is just me from an audience that point, 756 00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:03.400 but then instantly I'd be like, wow. 757 00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:03.960 Fire Starting. 758 00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:07.800 All right, pressure, Wow, I don't know, Like what am 759 00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.480 I supposed to do? I can't make the same movie again. 760 00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:13.320 I make it two different people and people are going 761 00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:15.719 to like it, like is that something that comes up? 762 00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:17.480 And then how do you even get over it and say, 763 00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:20.000 you know what, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna give 764 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:21.920 my take or we're gonna we're gonna try and get 765 00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:22.800 something done. 766 00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:27.599 Yeah, it was. It was such a fascinating kind of 767 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:31.760 journey because so out of Tiff. We had the premiere 768 00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:34.159 of The Vigil at Tiff, it got all this kind 769 00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:37.519 of great reception. I was like, Okay, good, this might 770 00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:39.159 actually be a career. I don't have to go back 771 00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:44.039 to research. And then I went to Fantastic Fest in Austin, 772 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:50.519 where I go a lot, and my my manager called 773 00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:53.880 and was like, hey, Blum wants to meet you. And 774 00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:56.119 I was like, oh, I'm at Fantastic Fest. I'm trying 775 00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:58.079 to see these movies and blah blah. He's like he 776 00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:01.039 wants to

meet you now, like can you come to La? 777 00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:03.960 So I was like, got fine, So I like leave 778 00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:06.559 early and fly into LA and I go over to 779 00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:09.840 Blumhouse and I meet with Jason and Cooper and kind 780 00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:12.599 of the crew over at Blumhouse and we just were 781 00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:14.960 talking right, And I had had a bunch of meetings 782 00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:18.239 kind of out of the gate, like with A twenty 783 00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:20.599 four and stuff. In terms of just like what's next. 784 00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:23.800 I didn't think the Vigil was going to be successful. 785 00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:27.679 I mean, I knew I did what I wanted, but 786 00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:28.960 I didn't know what it was going to be. So 787 00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:31.920 I didn't necessarily have everything ready for my next one. 788 00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:34.519 It wasn't like, Okay, here's my next script. I didn't 789 00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.920 have that. I had my ideas. But so I sat 790 00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:40.480 down over at Blumhouse and we want to do something together. 791 00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:43.679 I was like, cool, awesome, sweet, and we batting around 792 00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:49.119 stuff and Jason was like, what about Firestarter? And of 793 00:44:49.159 --> 00:44:51.239 course I had seen the original film and I had 794 00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:54.519 read the Stephen King book when I was younger, and 795 00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:57.800 I was like, Wow, that's crazy. So I had that 796 00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:02.639 same sort of reaction of like, that's crazy. Yeah, maybe 797 00:45:03.079 --> 00:45:04.480 I know. There are a lot of folks who do 798 00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:06.679 love the original film, but there are a lot of 799 00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:09.079 folks who don't. And so I was like, if I'm 800 00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:12.400 going to make something new out of something existing, it 801 00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:17.519 should be something that people don't necessarily universally love like that. 802 00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:20.719 That's always very tricky. So I was like, Okay, I'm interested, 803 00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:22.440 let me read the script. So I read the script 804 00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:24.079 on the flight back home. I was like, this is 805 00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:27.679 I like this script. There's something really interesting here. And 806 00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:32.679 then of course COVID COVID shut it down and it's interesting. 807 00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:35.880 So there was a period of twenty twenty twenty twenty 808 00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:39.079 one where COVID had taken over the world and the 809 00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:41.880 industry is shut down, but my laptop is still here. 810 00:45:42.039 --> 00:45:45.400 I can zoom. And so I got three projects going 811 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:50.599 at the same time. They were Firestarter, which I didn't write, 812 00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:54.239 of course, and then there was the Gheraml del Toro 813 00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:59.159 Cabinet of Curiopsities episode that Geramou approached me with and 814 00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:01.679 he was like, you can do whatever you want with this, 815 00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:04.360 I'd really like you to do it. And then there 816 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:08.880 was the first OMEN. So I was on all three 817 00:46:09.079 --> 00:46:13.039 projects from twenty twenty to twenty twenty one, and it 818 00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:14.639 was just a matter of kind of which is going 819 00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:16.599 to come together, how are they going to come together, 820 00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:19.559 which one's gonna get made? And it ended up that 821 00:46:19.639 --> 00:46:24.199 I of course made Firestarter, made Pickman's Model The Curiosity, 822 00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:27.599 and then wrote the first OMEN and didn't direct that, 823 00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:30.880 although I was initially the director, and it was just 824 00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:33.400 it's all time again. Like I said with The Vigil, 825 00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:37.360 there's no timeline, right, We're just like, let's just make 826 00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:40.960 a movie. We were still closing my contract when I 827 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:43.159 was in pre production on that movie. We're just like, 828 00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:46.599 it's just a jump on this moving train indie filmmaking 829 00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:50.719 with the others, it's a much slower moving train in 830 00:46:50.760 --> 00:46:52.599 a lot of ways. You're not sure what's going to 831 00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:54.119 get made, how it's going to get made. And so 832 00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:57.119 I was like, whichever one of these is going to 833 00:46:57.159 --> 00:46:59.440 go first, that's what I'm doing. And I was lucky 834 00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:02.239 enough that I was able to shoot Firestarter in Toronto 835 00:47:03.320 --> 00:47:07.000 and we wrapped on like a Tuesday, and then on Wednesday, 836 00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:11.719 I was on Pickman's Model. So we had shot fire Starter. 837 00:47:11.719 --> 00:47:14.039 I hadn't even seen a cut or anything of it, 838 00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:17.199 and I jumped straight into Pickman's Model with Garamo and 839 00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:19.679 I was on that for the next few months. And 840 00:47:19.719 --> 00:47:22.159 so it was actually one of these that was a 841 00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:28.360 thrilling time because we were editing Firestarter on the weekends 842 00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:31.559 and I was working with John Carpenter do the score, 843 00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:36.199 and so I'm like, i spend the week working with 844 00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:40.519 Gheramo and Girmo's crew to make Pickman's Model, and then 845 00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:43.239 I'm spending the weekends on Zoom calls with John Carpenter 846 00:47:43.400 -->

00:47:45.320 and he's there at his keyboard being like, Keith, how 847 00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:48.159 about this, and how it's just like this will never 848 00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:52.400 never ever happen again. This is this is it. I 849 00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:55.280 might as well die at this point because I've reached 850 00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:59.639 the pinnacle of kind of my fandom experience but also 851 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:03.320 create sort of experience. And so so yeah, that's how 852 00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:06.840 that happened. And then, of course First Omen didn't get 853 00:48:06.920 --> 00:48:09.519 made until a couple of years later, and of course 854 00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:11.320 didn't come out until twenty twenty four. 855 00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:17.440 You well, you you mentioned First Omen, and I'm going 856 00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:21.000 to probably jump around. Yeah, but and you said you 857 00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:26.119 were initially attached to direct that as well, and that 858 00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:30.039 decision for you not to be director. Is that something 859 00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:34.039 that just evolved over time? And then I suppose is 860 00:48:34.039 --> 00:48:37.280 it difficult to write something with the intention of directing 861 00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:40.079 it and then not direct it. 862 00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:46.039 It was, And yet at the same time I felt 863 00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:48.280 really good about the script. I felt really good. Now 864 00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:51.679 this was also a project, so again these it didn't 865 00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:54.000 come out of my head. There were eight writers before 866 00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:56.320 me on this thing, right, Like, this draft had been 867 00:48:56.320 --> 00:49:00.519 around since like twenty sixteen through various people, and a 868 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:04.519 lot of big name screenwriters had worked on that script. 869 00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:08.840 And so when I got the project, yes, I was 870 00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:11.920 given certain freedoms to be able to take it in 871 00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:15.079 a direction that I wanted to take it, my kind 872 00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:17.840 of pitch, and my goal with first OMEN was to 873 00:49:18.760 --> 00:49:23.320 I had this dream of it if you put it 874 00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:26.719 up against the OMEN they could run together, that it 875 00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:30.119 would be a four hour movie and you wouldn't see 876 00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:32.519 the jump, like you could just make it just bam 877 00:49:32.599 --> 00:49:34.599 one right into the other. And so when I was 878 00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:38.280 envisioning the filmmaking side of that, which you know, we 879 00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:44.159 didn't get that ultimately down the Road, but I wanted 880 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:46.440 to shoot with the same lenses they originally shot with. 881 00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:48.440 I wanted to just kind of

make it look exactly 882 00:49:48.440 --> 00:49:50.840 the same. Whether that would have been as good, I 883 00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:53.719 have no idea. I'm very really I'm really happy with 884 00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:56.519 how the movie turned out, and what Arkasha did with 885 00:49:56.599 --> 00:50:00.559 it wasn't what I would have done. I think it's 886 00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:03.880 actually for the better. I think it's a stronger movie 887 00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:09.400 visually with her storytelling in terms of, you know, the 888 00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:13.039 way she put the movie together. Then I probably would 889 00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:15.239 have made it. It would have been very different. So 890 00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:18.159 it's a weird thing. That's the first project that I've 891 00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:24.159 written or did heavy behind the scenes kind of stuff too, 892 00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:27.519 that I didn't make, And so it was I remember 893 00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:30.840 being at the premiere and watching it and being like, oh. 894 00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:33.119 I turned to a friend of mine who's also a 895 00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:35.159 director who was there with me, and I was like, 896 00:50:36.039 --> 00:50:38.400 as the movie started, I was like, oh no, I'm 897 00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:40.719 like getting really nervous because my name's on this thing. 898 00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:42.840 I don't know, like, is it going to be good. 899 00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:44.840 I suddenly felt that feeling that probably a lot of 900 00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:48.840 screenwriters feel like, oh shit, like if this is garbage, 901 00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:51.840 everyone's gonna blame me because my name's on it. Luckily 902 00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:53.960 it's a shared credit. They blamed the three of us. 903 00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:59.400 But anyway, it was I was pleasantly surprised and really happy. 904 00:50:59.480 --> 00:51:04.920 So it's interesting. There's just so many different ways that 905 00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:07.599 these things can come together. It's a miracle any of 906 00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:11.519 them come out good, honestly. So it was I was 907 00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:12.679 very happy with Fristoeman. 908 00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:17.280 With Firestarter. I know there was some talks points, and 909 00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:21.760 I think you had made some comments before about potentials 910 00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:25.599 for maybe SQL prequel spin offs, that kind of stuff. 911 00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:30.880 It is that still floating around out there? And do 912 00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:33.559 you think because so I've seen arguments online. I'm sure 913 00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:36.639 maybe I don't imagine you look too deeply into this stuff, 914 00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:39.280 but I'm sure you've probably come across it from time 915 00:51:39.320 --> 00:51:42.519 to time or had comments on social media or whatever 916 00:51:42.599 --> 00:51:44.599 where people like to let you know their opinion for 917 00:51:44.599 --> 00:51:45.119 some reason. 918 00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:46.519 Yeah, yeah, sure. 919 00:51:47.559 --> 00:51:51.360 But I feel like sometimes like Firestarter seems like a 920 00:51:52.840 --> 00:51:55.559 like I said, it's like a whoa Firestarter? Okay, like 921 00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:58.519 we all kind of know what it is, but oh, 922 00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:00.599 at the same time, I feel like it always kind 923 00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:05.239 of gets this weird lukewarm response where everyone's like excited 924 00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:07.440 and it's just kind of like, oh, yeah, okay, right, 925 00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:10.559 and it's like it's not bad, it's just ya for 926 00:52:10.599 --> 00:52:13.079 some reason. And I don't know what that is. Did 927 00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:16.679 you I supposed feel that? And is there still any 928 00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:22.000 sort of talk or concept of continuing that franchise somewhere? 929 00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:26.320 Yeah, it was a weird, a weird reaction to it 930 00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:29.280 in a lot of ways. I mean, look, no movies perfect, 931 00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:33.320 and there's definitely it was made during COVID again, COVID, 932 00:52:33.559 --> 00:52:36.840 damn it it. So it restricted us a lot of 933 00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:39.000 ways in our pre production and things. So there were 934 00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:43.199 things that happened that constrained the movie that I wanted. 935 00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:45.800 And there were definitely things in posts that happened as well. 936 00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:49.320 But these are kind of like, this is studio filmmaking 937 00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:52.480 in a lot of ways. So but yeah, I was look, 938 00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:57.480 opinions are like assholes, right, everyone has one. So I 939 00:52:57.519 --> 00:53:04.320 think the reception to fire Starter, I take I kind 940 00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:06.840 of I tend to play a very long game. Part 941 00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:09.239 of it is the fact that I didn't start filmmaking 942 00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:12.559 until I was in my late thirties, so I already 943 00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:16.119 had a life and a career and whatever. I've just 944 00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:19.480 seen stuff. Part of It is also the fact that 945 00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:23.559 I worked in healthcare and hospitals and I've seen death 946 00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:28.760 and horrible things that it just put the whole thing 947 00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:33.679 into a deeper perspective in terms of my art and 948 00:53:33.719 --> 00:53:38.039 what everything means. Here's what I think a lot of 949 00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:41.039 the response to Firestarter is for people who know the 950 00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:47.639 book and know the story. It is horrific in parts 951 00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:51.239 and concepts, but it isn't like a supernatural horror movie.

Right. 952 00:53:51.639 --> 00:53:53.599 I think a lot of people when they think Stephen King, 953 00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:58.280 they think it, they think the Shining, but a lot 954 00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:02.119 of his work is not. You know, it's a Firestarter 955 00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:05.039 technically is like a sci fi movie about a kid 956 00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:10.480 with psychic powers, telekinetic powers who is on the run 957 00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:13.679 from a group that wants to use her as a weapon. Right, 958 00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:20.280 And it's also a family drama. It's about her struggles 959 00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:24.599 and her feeling monstrous. So I think a lot of 960 00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:27.559 people approached it and they thought at twofold one, oh, 961 00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:29.599 this guy did the vigil that was very scary. This 962 00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:32.960 is going to be the same. It's not or b oh, 963 00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:36.199 it's Stephen King. We know what to expect. It's going 964 00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:40.239 to be super scary. It isn't there are scares, but 965 00:54:40.280 --> 00:54:45.800 it's more of a kind of intense family story about 966 00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:48.559 a little girl who has these powers. So I think 967 00:54:48.639 --> 00:54:50.440 a lot of it is that that's sort of like, 968 00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:54.320 you know, the movie got dogpiled by the critics because 969 00:54:54.360 --> 00:54:57.760 of this sort of expectations. I don't think it's going 970 00:54:57.840 --> 00:55:01.199 to turn into The Thing or Blaze Runner, which, of course, 971 00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:04.480 infamously Blade Runner and The Thing got terrible reviews when 972 00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:07.760 they first came out. They were flops and they were 973 00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:11.480 savaged by critics, and now they're considered the best genre 974 00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:14.159 films ever made. I don't think fire Starter is going 975 00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:17.000 to end up there, but I do think down the line, 976 00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:19.800 and I do get emails, and I do get messages 977 00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:23.360 from people who are like, I really love Firestarter, and 978 00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:26.039 I know they're watching it. I see the residuals. It 979 00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:29.400 keeps showing up at various top tens on Netflix here 980 00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:32.000 and there around the world. People are clearly watching it. 981 00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:36.280 So my hope is that it will find the audience 982 00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:39.480 that either didn't go to see it at first because 983 00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:41.559 I didn't know what it was, or the audience that 984 00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:44.199 at first was dismissive of it because they were like, ah, 985 00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:46.920 this isn't the thing I wanted. You promised me a 986 00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:50.480 cheeseburger and you gave me a Portobello meshroom, and now 987 00:55:50.559 --> 00:55:54.199 I'm all upset about it. But you know, that's a 988 00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:57.480 it's par for the course. It was definitely kind of 989 00:55:57.480 --> 00:56:00.239 a learning experience. It's one thing to come off the 990 00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:03.679 Vigil where everyone's like, yay, we love this and it's 991 00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:07.920 ninety percent on rotten tomatoes, to like the exact opposite 992 00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:11.280 with fire Starter. It's like, ah man. But at the 993 00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:15.880 same time I had it was a very strange That 994 00:56:15.960 --> 00:56:18.840 year twenty twenty two is strange because I had fire 995 00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:24.360 Starter come out and had this very difficult reception, and 996 00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:27.239 then the Garamo Show comes out, like you know, just 997 00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:30.480 a few months later, and then everyone loves that, and 998 00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:33.599 then of course everyone loves the first omen, at least critically. 999 00:56:33.880 --> 00:56:37.800 This is just this is the bane of every filmmaker, 1000 00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:41.719 every creator's existence is the sort of the critics and 1001 00:56:41.960 --> 00:56:44.679 what to you know, what to do with them? How 1002 00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:46.519 far on the bottom of the sea can we put them? 1003 00:56:46.559 --> 00:56:47.599 That's always the question. 1004 00:56:48.199 --> 00:56:51.000 I have a couple of quick fire questions before I 1005 00:56:51.079 --> 00:56:52.920 let you go on that that kind of ties into 1006 00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:54.880 what you just said, I suppose maybe you have answered 1007 00:56:54.880 --> 00:56:58.000 the question, but you know you said for somebody following 1008 00:56:58.039 --> 00:56:59.960 a dream or whatever, you know, you have to call 1009 00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:03.559 the idea of rejection and being told no over and 1010 00:57:03.559 --> 00:57:06.639 over and over and over again. And then even when 1011 00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:08.280 you think you've been told yes, it's like you probably 1012 00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:12.480 gets told no again. Does the same thing apply to you? 1013 00:57:12.519 --> 00:57:12.719 Then? 1014 00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:15.960 For criticism and critics, like I feel like, you know, 1015 00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:18.440 you said that age old thing of like you know, 1016 00:57:18.760 --> 00:57:22.880 opinions or like assholes, and even probably more so now 1017 00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:26.119 in the social media age, it's like everybody feels the 1018 00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:30.280 need to let you know, like how shit your movie is, 1019 00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:33.119 how how terrible of avarriety you are, how this, how 1020 00:57:33.719 --> 00:57:36.800 with everything, whether it's an athlete. You know, you've got 1021 00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:40.480 the dude who's four hundred pounds and he

decides to 1022 00:57:40.519 --> 00:57:43.840 tweet a world professional athlete and tell him, you know, 1023 00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:45.760 how bad he is a sport or whatever, and I'm 1024 00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:49.280 just like, it's such a ridiculous thing. Do you put 1025 00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:51.360 and I probably already know the answer to this, but 1026 00:57:51.800 --> 00:57:57.000 do you put Annie Stock at all? In just criticism 1027 00:57:57.039 --> 00:58:01.480 from the general audience score and then also from some 1028 00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:04.760 of these critics who nowadays, at least, it seems to 1029 00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:09.760 me kind of make their bank off the back of negativity. 1030 00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:13.400 Everything seems to be terrible somehow, everything is like a, 1031 00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:15.599 oh well, I don't like it because of this, and 1032 00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:18.119 because of that, because of this. Wow, everything you ever 1033 00:58:18.239 --> 00:58:19.639 see in review is bad. 1034 00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:23.960 Yeah, there's definitely they play the algorithm right in terms 1035 00:58:23.960 --> 00:58:31.320 of negative news. Hot takes get more eyes. It's interesting. 1036 00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:34.000 So I do, like I said earlier, you have to 1037 00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:38.960 be have very thick skin, and I do. If there 1038 00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:42.800 is constructive criticism, I am very open to it in 1039 00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:46.199 terms of when I approach. When I look at reviews 1040 00:58:46.239 --> 00:58:51.679 of my work, it kind of falls into different categories. 1041 00:58:52.280 --> 00:58:55.440 There are film critics that I enjoy that I think, Okay, 1042 00:58:55.480 --> 00:59:00.559 these you read the reviews and it's clearly there thinking 1043 00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:05.119 through the various aspects of the filmmaking, and if they 1044 00:59:05.159 --> 00:59:07.280 don't like the movie, I still I can learn a 1045 00:59:07.320 --> 00:59:09.760 lot from those reviews, like, Okay, that's interesting. That's an 1046 00:59:09.760 --> 00:59:12.599 interesting thought. I hadn't thought of that. I tend to 1047 00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:16.400 side more with audience reviews just because they're the ones 1048 00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:19.360 who paid for a ticket, and they actually are and 1049 00:59:19.719 --> 00:59:22.559 they can be very negative too. But the one thing 1050 00:59:22.599 --> 00:59:26.880 that I hate are the kind of flippant reviews that 1051 00:59:26.920 --> 00:59:31.639 we see more and more of that are social media based. 1052 00:59:31.880 --> 00:59:35.360 In terms of like, I think Letterboxed, which of course 1053 00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:38.800 has become a juggernaut for kind of film fans, can 1054 00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:41.960 be a very useful tool, But anything that has a 1055 00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:47.000 like button, I instantly kind of dismiss it, because if 1056 00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:53.239 you're posting a review on letterboxed, nine out of ten times, 1057 00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:56.199 you're posting that review so that somebody likes it and 1058 00:59:56.239 --> 00:59:58.719 so that you can get that little hit of dopamine that, 1059 00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:01.119 oh my god, somebody liked what I wrote. So it 1060 01:00:01.480 --> 01:00:05.400 behooves you to write something snarky and maybe idiotic that 1061 01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:10.559 will get attention versus like actually taking a film into consideration. 1062 01:00:10.719 --> 01:00:16.400 So I find that this has bled through into a 1063 01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:19.519 lot of film criticism just in general. The death of 1064 01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:22.440 the newspapers, right, you know, normal film criticism died in 1065 01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:26.840 early two thousands when newspapers died. Back then, these were 1066 01:00:26.840 --> 01:00:29.960 full time film critics who went to school to study film, 1067 01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:34.440 and they took it very seriously. Now ninety percent of 1068 01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:38.360 the critics on for example, Rotten Tomatoes, they're just randos 1069 01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:44.599 who are writing reviews to drive eyeballs to those reviews 1070 01:00:44.679 --> 01:00:48.320 to try to monetize them or to get attention. Right, 1071 01:00:48.400 --> 01:00:52.239 it's essentially social media. So if they can say, if 1072 01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:54.400 they can come up with some sort of snarky headline 1073 01:00:54.440 --> 01:00:57.960 of this movie sucks, this is the worst movie ever made, 1074 01:00:58.039 --> 01:01:00.880 that's going to get more attention, and that drives the 1075 01:01:01.119 --> 01:01:07.079 UH interaction versus having anything actually constructive to say. If 1076 01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:09.760 everyone thought my movie, if I had a movie, everyone 1077 01:01:09.880 --> 01:01:11.639 was like, this movie's the worst movie ever and it's 1078 01:01:11.679 --> 01:01:14.719 total shit, and they had constructive sort of criticism around 1079 01:01:14.719 --> 01:01:18.320 it in terms of this is coming from some whatever 1080 01:01:18.360 --> 01:01:21.039 perspective they're coming from, that would be one thing. But 1081 01:01:21.119 --> 01:01:25.280 when it's just when it's just these half baked, kind 1082 01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:29.079 of cheesy takes of like, you know, whatever sort of 1083 01:01:29.079 --> 01:01:32.320 snarky thing they can say that they can get these likes, 1084 01:01:33.360 --> 01:01:38.639 I don't like. That's meaningless to me. That's like reading 1085 01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:41.000 those is like cataloging farts. 1086 01:01:41.480 --> 01:01:47.719 It's just you know, you mentioned a couple of years back, 1087 01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:50.559 like you've got this kind of crazy wild ride. I 1088 01:01:50.599 --> 01:01:53.400 suppose where you're working on all these projects and

everything 1089 01:01:53.519 --> 01:01:56.880 kind of seems tall pilon at once, and I assume 1090 01:01:57.719 --> 01:01:59.519 you know a lot of times things can get like 1091 01:01:59.559 --> 01:02:03.239 that where you're always spinning plates. You always have to 1092 01:02:03.280 --> 01:02:07.599 have multiple irons in the fire. And I'm always fascinated 1093 01:02:07.639 --> 01:02:11.519 by this and the different answers and stuff. But is 1094 01:02:11.559 --> 01:02:13.239 it a struggle to him? Obviously we don't have to 1095 01:02:13.239 --> 01:02:15.559 get super personal, but is it a struggle to maintain 1096 01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:19.320 like a normal life, like things like relationships and stuff. 1097 01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:21.440 I get a lot of messages from people that want 1098 01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:24.960 me to ask questions to certain filmmakers or whatever about like, 1099 01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:28.039 you know, I feel like I have this passion for 1100 01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:31.159 whatever it is, and I feel like it's so much 1101 01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:34.960 so that it's nearly affecting like my my quote unquote 1102 01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:37.519 real life in the sense of, like you know, I 1103 01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:39.880 don't have like I don't have much time for friends, 1104 01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:42.280 or I feel guilty if I go to do something 1105 01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:43.679 with friends, I feel like, oh, you know, I should 1106 01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:45.960 be working on that script, or I should be doing 1107 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:49.039 something else, or whether it's a partner, a wife, a husband. 1108 01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:52.239 He's seen an awful lot of people struggling with that. 1109 01:02:53.360 --> 01:02:57.599 I you know, this was a fascinating conversation I had 1110 01:02:57.639 --> 01:03:01.639 with Gearmo early on in the development of Pickman's model, 1111 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:05.039 and I don't remember the context in which it came up. 1112 01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:06.840 But and I don't even know if it was a 1113 01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:09.639 Gearamo quote directly. He might have been quoting somebody else, 1114 01:03:09.719 --> 01:03:12.880 like James Cameron or somebody. But it was essentially like 1115 01:03:12.920 --> 01:03:20.119 you can be a great father or a great filmmaker, right, 1116 01:03:20.239 --> 01:03:24.800 Like the two don't coexist. And I was like, Guaramo, 1117 01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:27.280 I'm going to be both. I don't don't. I don't 1118 01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:30.920 buy that. Part of it is the fact that I 1119 01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:34.679 did come into the game later. I have kids, and 1120 01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:38.480 I have a wonderful relationship with my wife and my kids. 1121 01:03:39.239 --> 01:03:42.119 They are older now, they're they're, you know, in their 1122 01:03:42.199 --> 01:03:45.920 late teens, and for most of their lives I was 1123 01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:50.760 working a day job, right, and but I always found 1124 01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:53.840 a time to be creative. And I will admit that 1125 01:03:54.079 --> 01:03:57.800 I definitely burned the candle at both ends and will 1126 01:03:57.800 --> 01:04:00.360 I see eighty. I have no idea. Maybe I'm running 1127 01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:04.960 myself into the ground, but when I was, I never 1128 01:04:05.400 --> 01:04:09.559 gave myself an excuse for not getting stuff done, Like 1129 01:04:09.639 --> 01:04:13.360 I just don't. Like I said, I believe in very 1130 01:04:13.400 --> 01:04:15.920 thick skin, and I believe in being tenacious, Like if 1131 01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:18.000 you want it, you were going to have to do 1132 01:04:18.079 --> 01:04:20.519 everything to get it, but it doesn't mean you destroy 1133 01:04:20.599 --> 01:04:24.239 your life and tear everything down. So for me, I 1134 01:04:24.239 --> 01:04:26.760 would work my day job. I would come home at 1135 01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:29.840 four or five pm. I would see my family, we'd 1136 01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:32.440 have dinner. I would help get the kids to bed, 1137 01:04:33.159 --> 01:04:35.840 and then once everyone was asleep, let's say it was 1138 01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:39.519 eight pm, nine pm, That's when I would start and 1139 01:04:39.559 --> 01:04:41.280 I would go till one or two in the morning, 1140 01:04:41.599 --> 01:04:43.719 and then I would get up and go to work. Yeah, 1141 01:04:44.039 --> 01:04:47.719 it's rough. It sucked. The other thing I would say, 1142 01:04:47.800 --> 01:04:50.320 I mean I worked weekends. I worked every vacation. I 1143 01:04:50.320 --> 01:04:52.760 haven't had a vacation in about twenty years where I 1144 01:04:54.039 --> 01:04:55.840 could be on a beach, but I'm going to be working. 1145 01:04:55.880 --> 01:04:59.360 I can't help it, like it's part of my DNA. Honestly, 1146 01:04:59.400 --> 01:05:01.960 it was even harder once I quit my day job, 1147 01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:05.320 because then I have gotten an entire day and I'm like, oh, 1148 01:05:05.360 --> 01:05:07.039 I gotta make this. The kids are at school. I've 1149 01:05:07.039 --> 01:05:09.679 got to like make you put so much pressure on 1150 01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:12.679 yourself of like I gotta get this many pages done, 1151 01:05:12.760 --> 01:05:14.960 or i gotta get this. For example, I do my 1152 01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:17.679 own storyboards, so I've got to draw this many storyboards 1153 01:05:17.719 --> 01:05:21.000 for this, or I gotta do this pitch deck and 1154 01:05:21.039 --> 01:05:23.599 I gotta do all this stuff. And you put a 1155 01:05:23.679 --> 01:05:26.719 lot of pressure on yourself, which isn't that helpful because 1156 01:05:26.719 --> 01:05:28.239 a lot of times you end up the work it 1157 01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:32.920 just isn't as good. I think you can balance these 1158 01:05:32.920 --> 01:05:36.440 things out. It takes a lot. It just takes a 1159

01:05:36.480 --> 01:05:38.920 lot of focus. You have to be able to compartmentalize. 1160 01:05:39.559 --> 01:05:41.719 These hours are the hours I'm gonna be with the 1161 01:05:41.760 --> 01:05:44.719 family and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna look at 1162 01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:46.360 the phone. I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna 1163 01:05:46.360 --> 01:05:49.840 do that. I'm gonna just focus same. These are the 1164 01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:53.480 hours I'm working doors closed. I am just one hundred 1165 01:05:53.480 --> 01:05:57.840 percent focused on this, and this is what we're getting done. 1166 01:05:58.039 --> 01:06:00.880 I couldn't imagine it any other way. I would also say, 1167 01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:03.800 you know, when I was growing up, I'd always hear 1168 01:06:03.800 --> 01:06:05.480 these stories. I know a lot of people like this 1169 01:06:05.559 --> 01:06:07.880 who were like, Okay, I want to be a filmmaker, 1170 01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:10.199 I need to go to La. I have to be 1171 01:06:10.239 --> 01:06:15.480 in La. There is a community and a culture there. 1172 01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:17.760 Every time I'm in La, and I used to before COVID, 1173 01:06:17.800 --> 01:06:19.920 I used to be in La every month, and there 1174 01:06:19.920 --> 01:06:22.079 are lots of times when you're at a restaurant or 1175 01:06:22.079 --> 01:06:24.440 you're out somewhere and you meet somebody and a project 1176 01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:31.039 will come from that. But not living in LA has 1177 01:06:31.119 --> 01:06:34.599 been very helpful for me. It keeps me focused. I've 1178 01:06:34.639 --> 01:06:39.159 said this before in interviews, but I am very non 1179 01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:42.400 fame focused. If we're up to me, I have a 1180 01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:44.480 different name on every film. I don't give a shit 1181 01:06:44.719 --> 01:06:47.320 me as a person. As a creator, I don't care. 1182 01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:50.880 Like that doesn't interest me in any way. I don't 1183 01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:54.960 like being photographed. I don't like the red carpet. I 1184 01:06:54.960 --> 01:06:57.199 don't like any of that. Like I just like making 1185 01:06:57.239 --> 01:07:02.360 these things. So being out of that mix of the pressure, 1186 01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:06.079 it's a pressure cooker. Everyone's competing against each other, you know. 1187 01:07:06.519 --> 01:07:09.320 As much as you know directors like to talk shop 1188 01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:12.559 and hang out, we're all basically competing against each other. 1189 01:07:12.639 --> 01:07:15.119 And I've got a bunch of horror film director friends, 1190 01:07:15.599 --> 01:07:18.239 you know, who make really amazing films and films that 1191 01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:21.119 I'm big fans of, and we're good friends and we've 1192 01:07:21.159 --> 01:07:24.880 found ways to be friends together even though we're technically competing. 1193 01:07:25.119 --> 01:07:28.280 We get sent the same scripts, right our movies come 1194 01:07:28.280 --> 01:07:30.360 out around the same time, and they're competing in the 1195 01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:33.280 marketplace against each other. I couldn't imagine living in that 1196 01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:36.480 twenty four to seven that would be That's where I 1197 01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:39.920 think a lot of people the relationship stuff breaks down 1198 01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:42.280 because if you're in if you're in it all the time, 1199 01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:44.159 how do you get out of it? How do you 1200 01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:48.719 divide and create a space? And in this world with 1201 01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:52.280 zoom and all these electronic ways to communicate, you don't 1202 01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:54.880 have to be in la you don't have to be 1203 01:07:54.920 --> 01:07:56.320 in London, you don't have to be in New York. 1204 01:07:56.360 --> 01:07:58.519 You don't have to be those places. You can A 1205 01:07:58.519 --> 01:08:01.599 good story can get made no matter what. They don't 1206 01:08:01.599 --> 01:08:04.199 even film in these places anymore. It's cheaper to film 1207 01:08:04.199 --> 01:08:05.119 in Romania or whatever. 1208 01:08:06.239 --> 01:08:09.480 Yeahs, I've seemed to be hearing that more and more 1209 01:08:09.599 --> 01:08:11.840 in the last couple of years. A couple of really 1210 01:08:11.960 --> 01:08:14.199 quick fire things. Then before we finish up. Do you 1211 01:08:14.239 --> 01:08:17.279 have any comfort movies like movies that I don't know, 1212 01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:19.479 if you're I don't know, if you have something on 1213 01:08:19.479 --> 01:08:21.560 in the background while you write or you're trying to 1214 01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:23.840 get creative or anything. Is there movies that you find 1215 01:08:23.840 --> 01:08:26.159 yourself going back to on the regular? 1216 01:08:27.079 --> 01:08:29.840 Yeah? I am one of those people who I can't 1217 01:08:29.880 --> 01:08:32.760 handle complete silence, so I usually have music playing and 1218 01:08:32.840 --> 01:08:35.560 a movie muted on the background. I just have to 1219 01:08:35.600 --> 01:08:38.439 have the interaction. And so, yeah, there's a bunch of 1220 01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:41.079 movies that I end up just kind of always going 1221 01:08:41.159 --> 01:08:43.760 back to that I'll watch over and over. Let me think. 1222 01:08:43.840 --> 01:08:48.079 So one of them is the Jean Pierre Jeunet and 1223 01:08:48.279 --> 01:08:53.359 Mark Carrot, two French directors, did these movies Delicatessen and 1224 01:08:53.439 --> 01:08:57.600 The City Lost Children in the nineties. Those are just 1225 01:08:57.319 --> 01:09:01.159 I love those movies. I love them to death. I 1226 01:09:01.199 --> 01:09:05.560 could watch them over and over anytime. They're very weird, 1227 01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:08.640 they're very very French. They kind of get lumped in 1228 01:09:08.720 --> 01:09:12.439 as horror movies.

They are definitely horrific aspects to them, 1229 01:09:12.680 --> 01:09:15.760 but they're just these beautiful, strange fairy tales and they 1230 01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:21.399 look incredible. They just visually absolutely incredible. So films like 1231 01:09:21.600 --> 01:09:25.279 those two I constantly go back to. Others like RoboCop. 1232 01:09:25.359 --> 01:09:28.520 I can't I can never watch enough RoboCop. I'm sure 1233 01:09:28.520 --> 01:09:29.920 there are a lot of people who are like that. 1234 01:09:30.359 --> 01:09:33.279 But that score on that film is just like, talk 1235 01:09:33.319 --> 01:09:36.399 about something that gets you moving and just get you going. 1236 01:09:37.039 --> 01:09:40.359 That score is just incredible, and I love I love 1237 01:09:40.439 --> 01:09:43.319 that movie, so and in terms of like a pure 1238 01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:47.720 horror movie, that's something you know, my early Dario or 1239 01:09:47.760 --> 01:09:51.399 Gento stuff, So it would really be like Suspiria Inferno. 1240 01:09:52.119 --> 01:09:56.000 I love Phenomenon, I love, love love that movie. That's 1241 01:09:56.039 --> 01:09:59.079 like a total comfort food to me. I could put 1242 01:09:59.079 --> 01:10:01.760 it on it anytime. And then Opera is another one 1243 01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:04.680 of his that I adore, So those are kind of 1244 01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:05.439 my go tos. 1245 01:10:06.800 --> 01:10:09.279 I love that. I was actually speaking to someone recently, 1246 01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:13.640 he's Irish Italian and the subject of Dario Argenta came up, 1247 01:10:13.680 --> 01:10:15.720 and I was just saying that I've spent probably the 1248 01:10:15.800 --> 01:10:19.319 last eighteen months trying to figure out a way to 1249 01:10:19.319 --> 01:10:20.399 have him on the show. 1250 01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:22.159 Oh yeah, that would be incredible. 1251 01:10:22.199 --> 01:10:25.640 It's proven hard, not that I thought it was going 1252 01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:27.600 to be easy, but it's proven much harder than I 1253 01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:32.600 thought it was going to be. Goals for the future, 1254 01:10:32.800 --> 01:10:35.199 is that something do you think about or do you 1255 01:10:35.359 --> 01:10:38.199 just try and live life and let things happen naturally, 1256 01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:40.199 or do you have like you know in your head, 1257 01:10:40.239 --> 01:10:44.760 like I need to see this out before my time 1258 01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:45.359 or whatever. 1259 01:10:45.600 --> 01:10:49.359 Yeah, it's a little bit of both. The industry is 1260 01:10:49.399 --> 01:10:53.039 so unpredictable, you know, you have things like strikes, and 1261 01:10:53.079 --> 01:10:55.960 then you have these various things that happen that are 1262 01:10:56.000 --> 01:10:59.520 totally out of your control. The goals are, you know, 1263 01:10:59.600 --> 01:11:02.720 like I, you know mentioned there's always these spinning plates. 1264 01:11:02.840 --> 01:11:05.159 I have a number of movies that I really want 1265 01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:09.520 to get made. There's one that you know, knock on wood. 1266 01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:13.600 We are going into production on this summer, so I 1267 01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:15.680 feel really good about that one. I really like that one. 1268 01:11:15.680 --> 01:11:19.560 It's got an incredible cast. It's a very scary, very 1269 01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:22.439 fun movie. And then there's there are scripts that I've 1270 01:11:22.439 --> 01:11:26.079 written that have followed in my followed me around in 1271 01:11:26.079 --> 01:11:29.079 my wake here that I really want to have made 1272 01:11:29.279 --> 01:11:32.239 that I really There's a couple that I'm like, this 1273 01:11:32.399 --> 01:11:35.359 is it Like it all comes down to kind of 1274 01:11:35.359 --> 01:11:38.359 the right circumstances, the right people, or the right things 1275 01:11:38.399 --> 01:11:43.319 coming together. But I'm at an interesting place where I 1276 01:11:43.359 --> 01:11:46.279 feel really good about the projects I have right now. 1277 01:11:46.479 --> 01:11:50.600 I would say there are five, which sounds like a lot, 1278 01:11:50.720 --> 01:11:52.159 and I know they're not all going to get made, 1279 01:11:52.159 --> 01:11:54.640 but there are five really strong ones that are right 1280 01:11:54.680 --> 01:11:57.399 at the forefront. Now. One of them has an amazing 1281 01:11:57.439 --> 01:11:59.600 cast already. We just need a bunch of stuff to 1282 01:11:59.600 --> 01:12:01.960 come to get on that one that one's going to 1283 01:12:02.039 --> 01:12:05.319 be awesome. There's one that doesn't have any cast but 1284 01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:08.840 has very strong producers on it that that I'm very 1285 01:12:08.840 --> 01:12:12.039 bullish about that script. You know, you kind of just 1286 01:12:12.079 --> 01:12:14.600 have to go with the flow. I always have them there. 1287 01:12:14.680 --> 01:12:17.239 I'm always ready. I know that I'm going to be 1288 01:12:17.279 --> 01:12:18.960 sent new things that I'm going to be like, oh, 1289 01:12:19.039 --> 01:12:21.199 I love this, I want to do this, and that 1290 01:12:21.319 --> 01:12:24.239 might push those things back again. But my hope is, 1291 01:12:24.680 --> 01:12:27.640 which is this is every filmmaker's hope, as you know, 1292 01:12:27.680 --> 01:12:30.479 you mentioned Gremo saying they won't let him make certain things. 1293 01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:33.359 Even at this point, I hope that I'm at a 1294 01:12:33.399 --> 01:12:38.960 point where I can say, Okay, I'm making this and 1295 01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:41.840 we're going to do it no matter what. I'm not 1296 01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:43.880 there yet, but that's the hope. 1297 01:12:46.399 --> 01:12:49.239 I love that way, Horror, And what does it mean 1298 01:12:49.279 --> 01:12:50.960 to you now from the other side. You know, we 1299 01:12:51.000 -->

01:12:54.239 spoke with the start about as as an audience member, 1300 01:12:54.279 --> 01:12:56.199 as a viewer, but now to be on the flip 1301 01:12:56.239 --> 01:12:58.760 side of that and have people reach out to you 1302 01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:03.119 have conversations like this where there's going to be many 1303 01:13:03.119 --> 01:13:06.680 people listen to who are fans of the stories you've told, 1304 01:13:06.920 --> 01:13:09.880 the things that you've brought to life. Has it changed, 1305 01:13:10.119 --> 01:13:12.439 like your concept of waihar and what it means to you. 1306 01:13:13.760 --> 01:13:16.279 I think it has in a lot of ways. I 1307 01:13:16.359 --> 01:13:20.600 think I've honestly become even more appreciative of horror the 1308 01:13:20.680 --> 01:13:25.039 more I've worked in it. You know, there's a great quote. 1309 01:13:25.039 --> 01:13:26.800 I have no idea where it comes from. It's probably 1310 01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:30.399 not even attributed to anyone in particular. But when you 1311 01:13:30.439 --> 01:13:33.840 make a film, and this goes for every film, there's 1312 01:13:33.880 --> 01:13:37.840 the film that exists in your head before you write 1313 01:13:37.880 --> 01:13:39.920 the script or when you just first read the script 1314 01:13:39.920 --> 01:13:42.720 that's sent to you. There's the film that is created 1315 01:13:42.720 --> 01:13:47.079 in pre production where everything is possible and suddenly all 1316 01:13:47.119 --> 01:13:50.600 the walls are getting built and things are changing. There's 1317 01:13:50.640 --> 01:13:53.399 the film you shoot when you're in production, and then 1318 01:13:53.439 --> 01:13:56.359 there's the film you make in post production, and there 1319 01:13:56.399 --> 01:14:00.399 are four completely different films. And that's kind of the 1320 01:14:00.479 --> 01:14:05.760 beauty of the process. I think going through the grinder 1321 01:14:06.239 --> 01:14:10.680 and making the sausages has taught me in a lot 1322 01:14:10.720 --> 01:14:14.760 of ways. It's kind of showed me what I appreciate 1323 01:14:14.840 --> 01:14:18.279 about horror that I don't know I appreciated as much before. 1324 01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:22.239 To craft a scare is hard, it's sometimes they look 1325 01:14:22.279 --> 01:14:24.680 super easy, right, a jump scare, How hard is that? 1326 01:14:25.079 --> 01:14:28.520 It's all built in post production, right, it's a sting 1327 01:14:28.600 --> 01:14:30.840 and the musical piece here and these loud noises and 1328 01:14:30.880 --> 01:14:33.079 blah blah blah blah blah. But to create a real 1329 01:14:33.239 --> 01:14:39.640 lasting scare, something that really affects people and lingers is difficult. 1330 01:14:39.680 --> 01:14:44.720 It's hard and for me to create one. Some of 1331 01:14:44.760 --> 01:14:47.239 the scares that I'm most proud of they come from 1332 01:14:47.359 --> 01:14:50.159 very personal places. They come from my own nightmares, they 1333 01:14:50.159 --> 01:14:54.760 come from my own experience. There's something very cathartic in 1334 01:14:54.800 --> 01:14:58.079 a way of making them, you know, like individual There's 1335 01:14:58.119 --> 01:15:00.920 a number of scares that are very much rooted in 1336 01:15:00.960 --> 01:15:06.039 my own history, and it was fun making them, bringing 1337 01:15:06.119 --> 01:15:08.840 them to life and seeing people react to them. Kind 1338 01:15:08.840 --> 01:15:12.000 of very cathartic in a way. I exercise those demons 1339 01:15:12.880 --> 01:15:17.399 and I think that horror, and what I've kind of 1340 01:15:17.479 --> 01:15:20.920 learned over the years is horror is a group exorcism 1341 01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:26.079 for audiences, for viewers, for people. There is something really 1342 01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:32.319 beautiful in a way about how horror and catharsists go together. 1343 01:15:32.439 --> 01:15:35.319 It's you know, a lot of people talk about comedies 1344 01:15:35.399 --> 01:15:39.960 and how laughter it makes you at ease. It makes 1345 01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:42.680 you feel more comfortable, and a long hard day in 1346 01:15:42.720 --> 01:15:45.560 my life fucking sucks, and I see this comedy and 1347 01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:47.880 I'm feeling better. I'm like, Okay, I think that horror 1348 01:15:47.920 --> 01:15:51.560 is the same exact thing. It's the same ride. It 1349 01:15:51.640 --> 01:15:55.039 has a different it's a scream, not a not a laugh, 1350 01:15:55.640 --> 01:15:58.640 but it releases the same sort of demons. It's able, 1351 01:15:58.760 --> 01:16:01.760 it's a cathartic event, and I don't think there's another 1352 01:16:01.840 --> 01:16:04.920 genre like it that can do that. I saw this 1353 01:16:04.960 --> 01:16:09.840 movie The Furious recently, which is absolutely incredible martial arts, 1354 01:16:09.880 --> 01:16:14.279 film and choreography. It was like an incredible experience watching 1355 01:16:14.319 --> 01:16:21.039 it and enjoying it. But horror is able to take 1356 01:16:21.079 --> 01:16:25.399 you on a ride psychologically, emotionally that no other genre 1357 01:16:25.479 --> 01:16:30.880 can do. And I honestly think I'm not the first 1358 01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:33.119 to say this, but I think people are better for it. 1359 01:16:33.800 --> 01:16:36.239 You always hear the quote about how you meet horror 1360 01:16:36.239 --> 01:16:37.920 fans and people are like, oh my god, this guy's 1361 01:16:37.960 --> 01:16:40.760 a total freak. He loves horror movies. He's covered in 1362 01:16:40.840 --> 01:16:44.039 you know, Jason tattoos, and he's you know his heavy 1363 01:16:44.039 --> 01:16:47.800 metal Toyeah. There you go. They're the nicest people on earth. 1364 01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:51.319 They really are every horror fan I've ever met, the sweetest, 1365 01:16:51.399 --> 01:16:55.239 nicest people. I think that is because of the genre itself, 1366 01:16:55.720 --> 01:16:58.479

Like you exercise these demons, you go through this experience 1367 01:16:58.520 --> 01:17:01.920 as collective catharsist to get other taps into something very 1368 01:17:01.960 --> 01:17:06.600 primal that no other genre can do. And so it's 1369 01:17:06.640 --> 01:17:11.359 interesting having been the viewer experiencing it than having made 1370 01:17:11.439 --> 01:17:14.199 these films and worked on these things. It's given me 1371 01:17:14.239 --> 01:17:18.399 a deeper appreciation for kind of the ultimate end goal 1372 01:17:18.880 --> 01:17:22.279 of what these are about. Yeah, it's entertainment. Yeah it's 1373 01:17:22.319 --> 01:17:26.359 a distraction, but if you're doing it right and if 1374 01:17:26.359 --> 01:17:28.600 you're really kind of committing yourself to it, it's something 1375 01:17:28.640 --> 01:17:33.399 more and it's something deeper. And I am very humbled 1376 01:17:33.600 --> 01:17:38.960 to think that hopefully the things I make will outlast 1377 01:17:39.039 --> 01:17:41.800 me in terms of not necessary that people are like, 1378 01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:44.399 oh keep Thomas blah blah blah, but more just like, oh, 1379 01:17:44.399 --> 01:17:47.920 I saw this film and it put the splinter in 1380 01:17:48.000 --> 01:17:51.560 my mind and it's something that I keep thinking back 1381 01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:53.960 to and it's kind of changed how I see the world. 1382 01:17:54.039 --> 01:17:55.199 That's the ultimate goal. 1383 01:17:56.479 --> 01:17:58.800 I love that, Keith. This has been great and I 1384 01:17:58.840 --> 01:18:01.079 know you talk oar ear so I feel a bit 1385 01:18:01.079 --> 01:18:03.359 weird asking this question now, but like the whole fame thing, 1386 01:18:03.399 --> 01:18:05.520 and I want to be kind of interested in that. 1387 01:18:05.640 --> 01:18:08.760 But is there somewhere if it's somebody who already follows 1388 01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:10.600 your work on loves your work, or maybe is discovering 1389 01:18:10.640 --> 01:18:12.399 you for the first time, is there a place where 1390 01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:16.680 people can keep an eye on that when these projects 1391 01:18:16.720 --> 01:18:19.520 come to light, you know they'll be updated or know 1392 01:18:19.560 --> 01:18:20.359 what's going on with you. 1393 01:18:20.760 --> 01:18:25.319 Yeah, there's Instagram. I don't run it, so I don't 1394 01:18:25.359 --> 01:18:28.279 necessarily check it that often. I just kind of get updates, 1395 01:18:28.279 --> 01:18:30.760 but people can always go there. As you know, a 1396 01:18:30.840 --> 01:18:33.840 project comes out, I'll make sure stuff gets posted there. 1397 01:18:34.199 --> 01:18:36.560 I do have a website. I have a production company 1398 01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:40.479 called night Platform, and the website's night Platform inci NC 1399 01:18:40.760 --> 01:18:44.319 dot com, so people can go there. I update that 1400 01:18:44.359 --> 01:18:48.479 whenever there's something worth updating and putting on there. But 1401 01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:50.640 I have my emails on there. People can reach out 1402 01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:54.159 and look through those two avenues. But yeah, as soon 1403 01:18:54.199 --> 01:18:58.680 as as a project is in motion, I decided kind 1404 01:18:58.680 --> 01:19:01.199 of with my next project, should it be this one 1405 01:19:01.239 --> 01:19:04.119 that we're shooting this summer, I'm gonna be a little 1406 01:19:04.119 --> 01:19:09.560 more proactive on the the social media side. In terms 1407 01:19:09.640 --> 01:19:11.319 of behind the scenes. 1408 01:19:11.039 --> 01:19:13.119 Stuff, people that so much. 1409 01:19:13.319 --> 01:19:16.319 Yeah, yeah, they do. And it's funny because with the Vigil, 1410 01:19:16.359 --> 01:19:18.720 we just there was just never time. It's funny. I 1411 01:19:18.760 --> 01:19:20.840 filmed a bunch of behind the scenes on the Vigil 1412 01:19:21.000 --> 01:19:24.000 just on my cell phone. I've never posted those, released 1413 01:19:24.039 --> 01:19:26.960 those or anything, but there's fun there. Yeah, this time, 1414 01:19:27.000 --> 01:19:29.279 I was like, I should be a little more proactive 1415 01:19:29.319 --> 01:19:32.760 in that. And you know, so I've got a camera 1416 01:19:33.039 --> 01:19:36.039 that'll bring with me and shoot some stuff and put 1417 01:19:36.079 --> 01:19:39.119 some stuff online, and I think that'll be fun for 1418 01:19:39.159 --> 01:19:42.720 people to kind of see. Particularly people love the effects 1419 01:19:42.760 --> 01:19:45.159 and you know, like this movie that we're prepping is 1420 01:19:46.079 --> 01:19:49.239 ninety nine percent practical and they're pretty heavy effects. So 1421 01:19:49.600 --> 01:19:51.159 I think people would love to kind of see that 1422 01:19:51.279 --> 01:19:53.680 and kind of how that stuff comes. I know, as 1423 01:19:54.319 --> 01:19:57.399 when I I love it too. If anything, the I 1424 01:19:57.439 --> 01:20:00.960 love the resurgence of physical media, mostly because I love 1425 01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:03.640 the behind the scenes and the kind of director commentary 1426 01:20:04.239 --> 01:20:07.640 and all that's that's I know, the fans love that stuff, 1427 01:20:07.680 --> 01:20:10.439 so I'm like, I should do more that can help. 1428 01:20:11.319 --> 01:20:15.960 I now own probably multiple copies of like every movie. 1429 01:20:15.760 --> 01:20:18.319 Just off the back of. 1430 01:20:17.680 --> 01:20:20.159 Bonus features and behind the scenes things. They get me 1431 01:20:20.239 --> 01:20:22.920 every time. I'm like, no, I already have like four 1432 01:20:22.920 --> 01:20:25.640 copies of Audition. I don't need the new Arrow release. 1433 01:20:25.760 --> 01:20:28.119 It's like eight, I. 1434 01:20:28.079 --> 01:20:30.560 Know these four k's come out, And yeah, I think 1435 01:20:30.600 --> 01:20:35.279 I have five copies of Luccio probably most of every 1436 01:20:35.359 --> 01:20:38.920 Luccio Fulci film, certainly Gates of Hell and Zombie and 1437 01:20:38.960 --> 01:20:42.920 the Beyond. And I can't help it, like, yeah, and 1438 01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:44.720 it's sad, you'll like have to buy the whole thing 1439 01:20:44.760 --> 01:20:47.640 over just for this fifteen minute extra little thing that 1440 01:20:47.760 --> 01:20:51.840 somebody dug up and found. But yeah, that's part of 1441 01:20:51.880 --> 01:20:53.520 the that's part of loving these things. 1442 01:20:53.640 --> 01:20:55.600 That's it. Oh, I love it as well. For everybody 1443 01:20:55.640 --> 01:20:58.199 listening or watching this wherever you may be listening, the 1444 01:20:58.319 --> 01:21:00.960 links to everything we just about will be down below 1445 01:21:00.960 --> 01:21:04.600 in the description. Keith been a pleasure. I would love 1446 01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:07.560 the extend the olive branch now to say that, you know, 1447 01:21:07.600 --> 01:21:09.199 when the time is right, maybe we could do this 1448 01:21:09.239 --> 01:21:10.920 again and you'll be able to get a little bit 1449 01:21:10.960 --> 01:21:14.119 more in depth on some of the stuff that you've 1450 01:21:14.520 --> 01:21:16.159 been working on that we're waiting to see. 1451 01:21:16.640 --> 01:21:18.720 Yeah, that would be great. We'd love to come back. 1452 01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:21.279 Like I said, it's a pleasure, and yeah, we'll see 1453 01:21:21.279 --> 01:21:21.520 you real. 1454 01:21:21.560 --> 01:21:29.880 So now all right, thank you and take it easy. 1455 01:21:30.760 --> 01:21:34.800 Thanks for listening to another episode of Class Hardcast. Stop 1456 01:21:34.880 --> 01:21:39.640 the CHC podcast at classharror cast dot com at first 1457 01:21:39.720 --> 01:21:43.840 Class Horror, on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, or on Twitter 1458 01:21:44.079 --> 01:21:48.359 at Class Underscore Horror. The CC podcast is hosted and 1459 01:21:48.399 --> 01:21:50.560 produced by Aaron Doyle and is 1460 01:21:50.600 --> 01:21:52.399 An FCH production