النص الكامل لحلقة Christian Research Journal Reads 301: Dowsing: A Path to Enlightenment or a Gateway to the Occult?

1987, Inigo Montoya uses his father's sword 65 00:04:07.949 --> 00:04:09.990 as a dowsing rod to find the film's hero, Wesley. 66 00:04:10.469 --> 00:04:12.789 Perhaps these examples seem silly, but they do a nice 67 00:04:12.830 --> 00:04:16.189 job of illustrating how dowsing works. Historically speaking, it seems 68 00:04:16.250 --> 00:04:19.829 to go back centuries, if not millennia. The history of dowsing. 69 00:04:21.170 --> 00:04:23.420 Imagine holding two rods and using them to help you 70 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:26.500 find groundwater or minerals such as silver. It appears this 71 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:29.579 was the original purpose of dowsing. Some accounts trace dowsing 72 00:04:29.620 --> 00:04:32.699 back thousands of years to ancient Egypt and China based 73 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:36.399 on interpretations of ancient artwork as depicting divining rods, but 74 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:40.230 the archaeological evidence for these claims remains uncertain. During the 75 00:04:40.269 --> 00:04:43.069 Middle Ages, German miners used two forked rods to help 76 00:04:43.110 --> 00:04:46.910 them find metal. One German tribe, the Frisians, apparently used 77 00:04:46.949 --> 00:04:50.269 divining rods to find murderers, and Marco Polo seems to 78 00:04:50.310 --> 00:04:54.329 have used dowsing as well. According to the U.S. Geological Survey, 79 00:04:54.790 --> 00:04:58.100 dowsing has historically been popular in the U.S. in rural settings, 80 00:04:58.379 --> 00:05:00.689 where people wanted to avoid digging wells that turn up 81 00:05:00.750 --> 00:05:04.189 no water. Instead, they hoped the dowsing rods would steer 82 00:05:04.209 --> 00:05:07.550 them in the right direction. Over time, a shift has 83 00:05:07.589 --> 00:05:10.790 occurred and the focus is no longer on groundwater. Instead, 84 00:05:11.009 --> 00:05:14.939 dowsing has become associated with spiritualism and the occult. Practitioners 85 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:18.980 use dowsing to find invisible energies, diagnose physical illnesses, and 86 00:05:19.019 --> 00:05:22.939 manifest or even talk to spirits. Wellness influencers on social 87 00:05:22.980 --> 00:05:25.750 media claim they can use dowsing to reveal hidden knowledge 88 00:05:25.870 --> 00:05:28.709 and raise the world's vibrations. Some even claim to be 89 00:05:28.750 --> 00:05:32.009 able to answer questions about the future. Dowsing is very 90 00:05:32.069 --> 00:05:35.069 similar to playing with a Ouija board, writes Sarah Coughlin, 91 00:05:35.430 --> 00:05:39.050 although within spiritual circles, dowsing is considered to be much 92 00:05:39.089 --> 00:05:42.829 more reliable. Before we get into reliability, let's talk about 93 00:05:42.870 --> 00:05:46.170 how dowsing is supposed to work. The tools of dowsing. 94 00:05:48.089 --> 00:05:51.110 Although it seems a variety of options are available to dowsers, 95 00:05:51.529 --> 00:05:54.350 three types of tools are commonly used. A forked stick, 96 00:05:54.910 --> 00:05:58.410 L-shaped metal rods, or a pendulum. One isn't necessarily better 97 00:05:58.430 --> 00:06:01.730 than another, but practitioners have their preferences. With regard to 98 00:06:01.769 --> 00:06:03.850 the forked stick, a person holds one end of each 99 00:06:03.889 --> 00:06:06.560 fork in their hands with the main stem pointing forward, 100 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:09.540 and they walk slowly, carefully, concentrating on what it is 101 00:06:09.579 --> 00:06:12.879 they hope to find. According to proponents, the stick moves 102 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.800 downward when they've arrived at the correct location, a movement 103 00:06:15.819 --> 00:06:19.519 supposedly connected with the energy found below ground. Proponents believe 104 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:23.769 that the movements generated in dowsing tools, such as spins, oscillations, 105 00:06:23.850 --> 00:06:27.290 or vibrations, are not caused by the object itself, but 106 00:06:27.350 --> 00:06:29.810 by an interaction between the energetic field of what is 107 00:06:29.829 --> 00:06:32.930 being consulted and the sensitivity of the dowser. As I 108 00:06:32.930 --> 00:06:35.769 will explain later, this doesn't mean that the dowser necessarily 109 00:06:35.810 --> 00:06:40.329 believes anything supernatural is happening or that occult forces are involved, though, 110 00:06:40.490 --> 00:06:45.509 as noted, many today do. According to an allegedly naturalistic view, 111 00:06:45.850 --> 00:06:48.470 the dowsing mechanism is supposed to relate to the energies 112 00:06:48.629 --> 00:06:51.410 or vibrations proponents believe are found in all of creation, 113 00:06:51.790 --> 00:06:55.399 from electrons and atoms to stars and planets. The L-shaped 114 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:57.319 rods are used in a similar way to the stick, 115 00:06:57.529 --> 00:06:59.949 but the person holds one rod in each hand with 116 00:06:59.970 --> 00:07:02.649 the long ends pointing forward. When they arrive at the 117 00:07:02.689 --> 00:07:06.829 appropriate location, the rods move. Some practitioners, like Megan from 118 00:07:06.870 --> 00:07:09.649 Solar Glow Meditations, believe the rods can be used to 119 00:07:09.689 --> 00:07:13.490 facilitate conversations with spiritual beings. The rods give them the 120 00:07:13.529 --> 00:07:18.149 ability to detect something beyond their consciousness. Finally, some dowsers 121 00:07:18.230 --> 00:07:20.370 use a pendulum, which is a small crystal or weight 122 00:07:20.410 --> 00:07:23.470 suspended on a chain or string. The pendulum moves back 123 00:07:23.529 --> 00:07:26.110 and forth or in circles to help the practitioner find 124 00:07:26.129 --> 00:07:29.430 something or to interact with spirits. Pendulums seem to be 125 00:07:29.470 --> 00:07:32.829 popular in the spiritual side of dowsing, especially when practitioners 126 00:07:32.850 --> 00:07:37.740 have questions about their relationships, health, or future events. Beyond

water, 127 00:07:38.139 --> 00:07:41.779 dowsing as a spiritual practice. As spiritualism and the New 128 00:07:41.819 --> 00:07:47.079 Age blossomed, so too did dowsing and other so-called spiritual practices. Today, 129 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:50.279 practitioners believe that dowsing rods and pendulums can not only 130 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:53.500 find water but also locate lost objects, provide answers to 131 00:07:53.550 --> 00:07:56.370 life's questions, and open up a gateway to the spirit world. 132 00:07:57.310 --> 00:08:00.410 Dowser Gabriel Soka says, it serves as a gateway to 133 00:08:00.449 --> 00:08:03.430 a more subtle dimension of reality where mind, energy, and 134 00:08:03.509 --> 00:08:07.389 consciousness intertwine in a deep dialogue. Dowsing has to do 135 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:11.000 with vibrations, which new agers believe exist in everything. As 136 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.660 one raises their vibrations, the more access they have to 137 00:08:13.699 --> 00:08:16.620 their higher self, which leads them to their own godlike status. 138 00:08:17.209 --> 00:08:20.490 Walter explains, our viewpoint, once based in our wholeness, becomes 139 00:08:20.569 --> 00:08:23.569 one of compassion and love. Arriving at this viewpoint is 140 00:08:23.610 --> 00:08:25.509 how you discover that you are not what you thought 141 00:08:25.529 --> 00:08:27.980 you were. In fact, you are like a god in 142 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:31.519 your own tiny universe, and that universe is you. To 143 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:34.279 be clear, though, not all dowsers intend to use it 144 00:08:34.379 --> 00:08:37.440 as a supernatural practice. Rather, some use it more like 145 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:40.019 a metal detector would be used at the beach. So 146 00:08:40.059 --> 00:08:42.919 we can't assume that all dowsers are willful occultists or 147 00:08:42.940 --> 00:08:46.570 are intending to practice the New Age spiritual side of dowsing. Indeed, 148 00:08:46.590 --> 00:08:49.409 the Some dowsers like Walter say it is not supernatural 149 00:08:49.450 --> 00:08:51.909 at all. Rather, it is using the natural link we 150 00:08:51.990 --> 00:08:55.330 each have with the field of infinite possibility, interacting with 151 00:08:55.350 --> 00:08:59.320 the quantum field when you address the universe. Although metaphysically dubious, 152 00:08:59.629 --> 00:09:02.539 it seems Walter views dowsing as a natural rather than 153 00:09:02.620 --> 00:09:06.340 supernatural phenomenon, even as he claims that it provides access 154 00:09:06.379 --> 00:09:10.759 to information beyond our human experience. What does the evidence 155 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:14.750 say about dowsing? As with other new age and occult practices, 156 00:09:15.070 --> 00:09:18.590 there is no reliable empirical evidence to support dowsing. In 157 00:09:18.629 --> 00:09:23.389 the early 1900s, the U.S. Geological Survey, USGS, wondered if 158 00:09:23.409 --> 00:09:25.629 there was something

to all the questions it was receiving 159 00:09:25.669 --> 00:09:28.889 about dowsing as a practice to find groundwater. So it 160 00:09:28.970 --> 00:09:32.529 researched the issue and, under controlled tests, discovered there was 161 00:09:32.649 --> 00:09:37.129 nothing to show that dowsers consistently outperformed chance. The USGS 162 00:09:37.169 --> 00:09:40.110 concluded that any claim that dowsing works to find groundwater 163 00:09:40.250 --> 00:09:45.759 is purely speculative. Nothing has changed since 1917. Anomalistic psychologist 164 00:09:45.860 --> 00:09:48.879 Chris French performed a double-blind study in the early 2000s 165 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:52.210 on dowsing and got results similar to those achieved by 166 00:09:52.230 --> 00:09:55.210 the USGS. The dowsers were no more able to find 167 00:09:55.250 --> 00:09:58.629 the water than someone who was merely guessing. What then 168 00:09:58.690 --> 00:10:02.350 is happening when the rods... stick, and pendulum move? Psychologists 169 00:10:02.389 --> 00:10:05.029 say that it's a result of the ideomotor effect. The 170 00:10:05.129 --> 00:10:08.769 ideomotor effect is when our thoughts and expectations can trigger tiny, 171 00:10:08.929 --> 00:10:12.889 unconscious muscle movements. These movements are so minuscule that we 172 00:10:12.970 --> 00:10:15.730 may not even realize we're making them. The practitioner may 173 00:10:15.809 --> 00:10:18.710 genuinely feel as though they didn't make the tool move. However, 174 00:10:18.870 --> 00:10:21.470 there is no credible evidence to support the assertion that 175 00:10:21.590 --> 00:10:24.610 anything other than their own small involuntary muscle twitches or 176 00:10:24.690 --> 00:10:27.960 movements are causing the tools to work. In fact, it 177 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.639 may often be a case of confirmation bias, which is 178 00:10:30.659 --> 00:10:33.240 a tendency to interpret behavior in a way that supports 179 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:37.440 one's pre-existing beliefs. In other words, the dowser's expectations that 180 00:10:37.460 --> 00:10:40.320 the tools will move actually cause the involuntary muscle movement. 181 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:43.519 But for them, the movement confirms that dowsing is real, 182 00:10:43.700 --> 00:10:46.220 whether it's helping them find water or receive answers from 183 00:10:46.259 --> 00:10:50.159 a spiritual entity. Ultimately, as I've stated, science does not 184 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:53.919 support the validity of dowsing. Dowsers like Walter do not 185 00:10:53.940 --> 00:10:56.519 seem to care what the science says, though. He claims 186 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.500 the human heart is the barometer of our truth. It 187 00:10:59.539 --> 00:11:01.080 should be to our hearts that we turn to assess 188 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:03.539 the moments of our lives. Our hearts can guide our 189 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:06.279 choices on how to interpret the moments and find meaning 190 00:11:06.340 --> 00:11:09.970 in them. Walter also explains away the ideomotor effect by 191 00:11:10.019 --> 00:11:12.669 saying it actually works in favor of dowsing. He writes, 192 00:11:13.450 --> 00:11:15.929 I support the idea that dowsing works mostly for the 193 00:11:15.980 --> 00:11:18.679 majority of people because it is using the ideomotor effect. 194 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:21.460 If the ideomotor effect is a result of the body's 195 00:11:21.500 --> 00:11:25.500 physiology reacting to an unconscious stimulus, then that information must 196 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:28.179 have originated in the quantum realm as that is where 197 00:11:28.299 --> 00:11:32.049 all information is stored and created. The ideomotor effect is, 198 00:11:32.129 --> 00:11:34.669 for me, the only logical way that dowsing might work 199 00:11:34.690 --> 00:11:37.529 for most of us, most of the time. Emphasis in original. 200 00:11:39.389 --> 00:11:42.620 Unfortunately for Walter, as noted, that's not how the ideomotor 201 00:11:42.659 --> 00:11:45.679 effect works. and he offers no evidence to support his 202 00:11:45.740 --> 00:11:48.759 claim that the effect is caused by hidden information originating 203 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:51.899 in the quantum realm. The ideomotor effect is not proof 204 00:11:51.940 --> 00:11:54.580 that dowsing is working. It is evidence that it is not. 205 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:57.779 Despite Walters' claims that dowsing is the safest way to 206 00:11:57.899 --> 00:12:00.909 access the spiritual side of reality, he has provided no 207 00:12:01.049 --> 00:12:03.769 evidence that it works. And for some, that's okay so 208 00:12:03.809 --> 00:12:06.730 long as dowsing isn't causing anyone harm. As is often 209 00:12:06.769 --> 00:12:10.129 the case with divinatory and intuitive practices, there isn't really 210 00:12:10.169 --> 00:12:13.360 science behind dowsing, admits Coughlin. But if you give it 211 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:15.559 a try and find comfort in the responses you receive, 212 00:12:15.899 --> 00:12:18.100 there's no reason it shouldn't be part of your personal 213 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.039 spiritual routine. Maybe just don't delete your maps app in 214 00:12:21.110 --> 00:12:24.269 exchange for a divining rod. Humorous, but still an admission 215 00:12:24.309 --> 00:12:26.450 that perhaps dowsing isn't all it's cracked up to be. 216 00:12:27.509 --> 00:12:31.590 How should Christians respond to dowsing? When contemplating a practice 217 00:12:31.629 --> 00:12:35.450 like dowsing, the spiritual implications seem clear. Although at first glance, 218 00:12:35.470 --> 00:12:38.149 these rods and pendulums may seem to just be material tools. 219 00:12:38.500 --> 00:12:40.580 For many dowsers, they are much more than that because 220 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:43.769 of their purpose. These days, the intent for many dowsers 221 00:12:43.889 --> 00:12:46.889 isn't finding water or metal. Rather, the intent is to 222 00:12:46.909

--> 00:12:49.929 find access to hidden answers to life's difficult questions and 223 00:12:50.009 --> 00:12:53.559 reaching the higher version of oneself. Some practitioners believe dowsing 224 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:56.460 can detect invisible energies, connect them to their higher self, 225 00:12:56.860 --> 00:13:00.340 or even provide spiritual guidance. Unfortunately, it seems that some 226 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.350 have determined dowsing is a gift from God, too. The 227 00:13:03.389 --> 00:13:06.169 truth is, though, that just because something exists in God's 228 00:13:06.210 --> 00:13:10.799 creation does not mean that he endorses it. Deuteronomy 18 229 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:13.720 is an important passage for Christians to consider. It says, 230 00:13:14.059 --> 00:13:16.120 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their 231 00:13:16.139 --> 00:13:19.360 son or daughter in a fire, who practices divination or sorcery, 232 00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:23.470 interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who 233 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:25.710 is a medium or spiritist, or who consults the dead. 234 00:13:26.610 --> 00:13:28.870 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord. 235 00:13:29.210 --> 00:13:31.909 Because of these same detestable practices, the Lord your God 236 00:13:31.929 --> 00:13:35.690 will drive out those nations before you. Deuteronomy 18 verses 237 00:13:35.690 --> 00:13:38.649 10 to 12. Here, God clearly tells his people not 238 00:13:38.669 --> 00:13:42.110 to practice divination or seek out certain sources of supernatural knowledge. 239 00:13:42.490 --> 00:13:45.169 To employ dowsing instruments in an attempt to communicate with 240 00:13:45.220 --> 00:13:49.059 spiritual beings, predict future events, or receive supernatural knowledge or 241 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:52.600 spiritual guidance is to be actively involved in occult practices 242 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:55.899 that are explicitly prohibited by Scripture. The issue isn't only 243 00:13:55.940 --> 00:13:58.840 that something seems strange or mysterious. It's about where we 244 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.519 are turning for guidance and whether we are seeking knowledge 245 00:14:01.539 --> 00:14:04.500 in ways God has told us to avoid. The New 246 00:14:04.539 --> 00:14:07.110 Testament warns us about this kind of practice, too. In 247 00:14:07.230 --> 00:14:10.789 Acts 16, Paul encounters a woman who practices divination. What's 248 00:14:10.870 --> 00:14:13.840 interesting is that she actually says something true about Paul 249 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:16.419 and his companions by declaring them servants of the Most 250 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.139 High God. Acts 16, verse 17. That didn't make her 251 00:14:20.179 --> 00:14:23.639 divination acceptable, and according to Scripture, Paul reached his limit 252 00:14:23.659 --> 00:14:26.850 with her. Finally, Paul became so annoyed that he turned 253 00:14:26.889 --> 00:14:28.889 around and said to the Spirit, In the name of 254 00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:30.929 Jesus Christ, I command you to come out of her. 255 00:14:31.309 --> 00:14:35.049 At that moment, the Spirit left her. Acts 16, verse 18. 256 00:14:35.649 --> 00:14:38.129 In other words, just because something seems to work or 257 00:14:38.190 --> 00:14:41.149 someone claims to have gotten an accurate answer, that doesn't 258 00:14:41.250 --> 00:14:44.740 automatically mean it's acceptable or appropriate for Christians. We have 259 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:47.639 to be on guard against falsehood. Scripture exhorts us to 260 00:14:47.779 --> 00:14:49.840 test the spirits to see whether they are from God, 261 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:52.240 because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 262 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:56.039 1 John 4, verse 1. Further, as Christians, we must 263 00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:58.500 test all prophecies, then hold on to what is good 264 00:14:59.149 --> 00:15:02.399 and reject every kind of evil. 1 Thessalonians 5, verses 21-22. 265 00:15:05.379 --> 00:15:08.059 Put simply, we are not supposed to believe every spiritual 266 00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:10.399 claim we hear, even if someone says they are hearing 267 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.179 from God or Jesus. We are supposed to use discernment. 268 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:17.340 That means looking at the evidence, considering ordinary explanations, and 269 00:15:17.419 --> 00:15:20.970 comparing spiritual claims with what the Bible actually teaches. Proverbs 270 00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:23.649 3-5 tells us to trust in the Lord rather than 271 00:15:23.690 --> 00:15:27.769 relying solely on our own understanding. James 1, verse 5 272 00:15:27.769 --> 00:15:31.049 encourages us to ask God for wisdom. Our feelings shouldn't 273 00:15:31.149 --> 00:15:34.700 dictate reality in our lives. In fact, Contrary to Walter's 274 00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:37.799 advice to trust our hearts, the Bible explicitly warns us 275 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.070 that the heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure, 276 00:15:41.450 --> 00:15:46.710 Jeremiah 17, verse 9. As Christians, we can examine practices 277 00:15:46.750 --> 00:15:50.250 like dowsing honestly, understand what people believe about them, and 278 00:15:50.330 --> 00:15:53.629 recognize when something conflicts with our faith. We all want certainty. 279 00:15:54.070 --> 00:15:55.950 We want to know what will happen, whether we're making 280 00:15:55.970 --> 00:15:58.990 the right decisions, and what we might be missing. That 281 00:15:59.009 --> 00:16:02.250 desire is understandable. But sometimes in our search for answers, 282 00:16:02.620 --> 00:16:05.299 We can be drawn toward practices that promise more knowledge 283 00:16:05.419 --> 00:16:08.740 or control than they can actually deliver. As Christians, we're 284 00:16:08.779 --> 00:16:11.039 called to seek wisdom, test what we hear, and trust 285 00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:13.240 God in what He has revealed

and in what He 286 00:16:13.259 --> 00:16:16.779 has chosen not to reveal. Thus, when we encounter dowsing 287 00:16:16.850 --> 00:16:19.629 or another practice that claims to provide hidden spiritual knowledge, 288 00:16:19.970 --> 00:16:22.389 we don't need to panic. Instead, we need to ask 289 00:16:22.429 --> 00:16:25.970 good questions, think carefully, and evaluate those claims in light 290 00:16:25.990 --> 00:16:29.230 of Scripture. Ultimately, our confidence and hope do not come 291 00:16:29.269 --> 00:16:32.389 from a rod, a pendulum, or access to some supposedly 292 00:16:32.490 --> 00:16:35.830 hidden source of wisdom. It comes from knowing Christ, knowing 293 00:16:35.850 --> 00:16:38.009 His truth, and trusting Him even when we don't have 294 00:16:38.049 --> 00:16:41.820 all the answers. He is our blessed hope. Titus 2, 295 00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:44.059 verse 13. Lindsay Medden-Walt. 296 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:49.419 Please make sure you're subscribing to all of the podcasts 297 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:54.539 available from the Christian Research Institute. We have our flagship podcast, 298 00:16:54.580 --> 00:16:58.919 the daily Bible Answer Man podcast from CRI President Hank Hanegraaff. 299 00:16:59.299 --> 00:17:03.279 This is a question and answer format that is available 300 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:06.769 Monday through Friday. And also there's a best of the 301 00:17:06.809 --> 00:17:10.369 week episode on Saturdays. You'll want to make sure that 302 00:17:10.430 --> 00:17:14.490 you are subscribed to Hank Unplugged. And in this podcast, 303 00:17:14.509 --> 00:17:18.930 Hank will take you beyond soundbites and into thoughtful, in-depth 304 00:17:19.049 --> 00:17:24.369 explorations of critical issues that are confronting Christians today, Hank 305 00:17:24.410 --> 00:17:29.869 draws on scripture, history, theology, and culture, and will equip 306 00:17:30.269 --> 00:17:34.490 listeners to think Christianly about the questions that matter most 307 00:17:35.069 --> 00:17:39.039 and how to contend for the faith with knowledge and 308 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:42.660 with wisdom. Of course, we have our two podcasts from 309 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:46.440 the Christian Research Journal. The one you're listening to, Christian 310 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:51.539 Research Journal Reads, which are audio articles of Christian Research 311 00:17:51.859 --> 00:17:59.990 Journal content. our sister podcast, Postmodern Realities, which features interviews 312 00:18:00.250 --> 00:18:04.059 with Christian research journal authors as we discuss the content 313 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:08.940 of their articles. And don't forget to subscribe to our 314 00:18:09.099 --> 00:18:13.680 newest podcast from the Christian Research Institute. It was launched 315 00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:18.529 this year in 2006. It's called Commitment to Reality with 316 00:18:18.589 --> 00:18:22.710 Dave Hanegraaff. All of our podcasts are available on any 317 00:18:23.170 --> 00:18:27.900 podcast subscription platform. So wherever you get your feed, please 318 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:32.539 subscribe to the podcasts of the Christian Research Institute. Thank 319 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:36.079 you so much for your partnership and for listening.