النص الكامل لحلقة When Godly Parenting Doesn't Result in Godly Kids (w/ D.J. Harry) - Archive Ep. 97

studied God's Word with them and had all those hard conversations. They taught them scriptures and modeled a life of faith. Many even chose Christian education or homeschooling because they wanted to immerse their children in a biblical worldview. And yet their child doubts, their child wanders, their child chooses another path, perhaps even the prodigal path. In other words, to the best of their imperfectility. Because none of us parents perfectly, they did what Daniel's parents did and they got a very different result. 00:04:09 Speaker 2: So what do we do with that? 00:04:11 Speaker 1: This wasn't part of my planned conversation with DJ, but I'm so thankful it became part of it because I believe this discussion will encourage a lot of hurting parents. So with that said, let's jump right in. Welcome back, DJ. It's so nice to have you back on Christian Parent Crazy World. 00:04:31 Speaker 3: Catherine. I can't believe we're already back for a second episode. 00:04:34 Speaker 1: H I know, well, that conversation was so rich, so deep that I'm like, I want us to keep going, but I want to respect the audience time and your time as well. So let's jump back into this. We have been talking about the life of Daniel and the amazing principles that we and guidance that we can get as parents about how to train our children in such a way that they will be able to stand strong in this godless culture, but not only to stand strong, but also to make a different So we had a couple of principles in the last episode. Why don't you review those really quickly and we'll just keep going. 00:05:07 Speaker 3: Sure, So we're in the Book of Daniel. We're talking about Daniel, Shadrack, Meshak and a Bendigo and their preparation to be able to stand for seventy years plus in a godless culture. And the first thing we saw was in Daniel Chapter one, verse one. We don't get to choose when our children's faith will be tested, and you added an excellent point, and we don't get to choose how their faith is going to be tested either. And honestly, Catherine, our children's faith is being tested in ways that we never expected when we were their age, Like the things that they're going through now, it is mind boggling, the things that they're being challenged on. So we don't get to choose that. 00:05:49 Speaker 1: We didn't imagine this five years ago, much less well fun maybe ten years it's been on the horizon. But yeah, you're so right. I never imagined this. 00:05:58 Speaker 3: In twenty fifteen, the US Supreme Court mandated or stated that same sex marriage was protected. That was in twenty fifteen, and within just a year the conversation completely changed over to transgender rights. And now that has just become the norm in our culture in a matter of ten years. That's just completely taken over our cultures. 00:06:21 Speaker 1: You know what. I was on a call last night where we were talking about legislation where a parent, a father had lost custody rights to a two year old, a two year old whose mother wanted to transition the child. That's where we are. We never imagined that seven years and I don't have all the details. I can try to find out what that is because I was asking. We were in a prayer call and we were talking about it. But I mean, I see this Alliance Defending Freedom is taking up a lot of these cases, which I really like to get someone on to talk about some of these cases and what's happening with parental rights across our country, because it's rapidly getting to the place where we don't even have the right to teach our children the way that we want to. It's becoming increasingly more and more important to either privately educate your kids or to homeschool your kids. I know that's not feasible for everyone, and I think God will make a way for you to train your child and the way they need to be trained, no matter what you know, whether that's in public, private or homeschool. But yeah, I mean, that's the sort of stuff that's happening in our culture right now, where parental rights are being taken away. If you are not bowing to the God of our culture that says you can choose, and in that instance, that child isn't choosing that, that's the mother choosing that choosing that. I mean, there's no way that a child needs to be transitioning at the age of two, at any age in my opinion, that they do come on. 00:07:45 Speaker 3: So that was number one. Number two which you kind of just hit on, which was excellent. That Daniel was well had a well rounded education, and that's a necessary part of training our children to stand. We see that in Daniel one verse four, just that that Daniel was was well rounded in his education. He was cunning in wisdom and science and knowledge and had the ability to stand in the King's palace and learning. So all of these things. And it's not telling us what we need to teach our kids, but we sort of talked about the value in your in your last episode, we talked about the value of teaching your children how to learn so that they can become investigators in life. And so they in turn will seek out learning and continue to grow and you never know where they're going to land, how God's going to use that to help them become a leader in their area. A well rounded education is a very important part. So that leads us then to the third one. And so Catherine, we can just go right in if you're good with that. The third lesson we learned from Daniel is that there had to be an intentional transfer of faith from Daniel's parents to Daniel. Now, I want to qualify what we're talking about there. We're not talking about a mechanical or a traditional by tradition, is what I mean. There a transfer of traditions. So often we think that going to church, which kids, why do we go to church? It's because that's what we always do on Sunday, that that is a transfer of faith. That's not what we're talking about here. Because Catherine, you and I and your listeners have all known families or known people that

grew up in church and when they were able to walk away from church at eighteen or twenty, they did. Okay, the tradition of going to church, that's not a transfer of faith. The tradition of reading your Bible, that's not a transfer of faith. There has to be a heart connection that your child has with God. In fact, I say it this way, my wife and I say it this way. There has to be a point where your God becomes their God. No, your God, your relationship with the Lord has to become their relationship with the Lord. And we see that in verse number eight. I think we can infer this in verse number eight, where it says in Daniel one, verse eight, but Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with a portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank. So Daniel knew what the law was. Daniel knew the teachings of the law. He knew what a good Jewish person should do in that situation. Why because Mom and Dad had been faithful in teaching that to him. They had been faithful in teaching I never think about this transfer of faith without thinking about Deuteronomy chapter six, which is a wonderful passage. And I'm going to read it. These words which I command me this day, which I command thee this day, shall be in thy heart. And here's the part that's important. And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shall talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. I believe Daniel's parents did that successfully. It's not well the youth pastor w raised my kids. And yes, my wife and I grew up. Yes my wife and I were Christian school teachers. But let me tell you what. The Christian school, the Christian school system will do a terrible job raising your children. It's not the Christian school's responsibility. It's not children church's responsibility. It's not the pastor's responsibility. It's mom and dad's responsibility. And I believe Daniel, Daniel's parents did a wonderful job transferring their faith to Daniel. And I believe the evidence of that is as Daniel stands before the King, and Daniel stands before the princes, he knows as a as a as a follower of Jehovah, this is what I should should and should not be doing, and he was willing to act on that. It's incredible faith that Daniel had that did not come by accident. I believe his parents intentionally had transferred that over to him. And that's a process, you know, as parents, that's a long process. It starts when our kids are really young and we begin the intentional process of bringing them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. We have to we have to demonstrate, and we have to buy by our own testimony. We have to live out our faith in front of our kids. I believe children that grow up in a home where mom and dad are consistent in their walk with the Lord and they discipline biblically, I think those children naturally should come to a point where they they want to understand and they want to know who Jesus is if they're taught, I believe. I believe that's sort of a how do I say this? If a if a child grows up in a home where they see Christ, their faith modeled in mom and dad, then what they're taught in church and what they're taught as they read through their Bible, and it just should make sense. It clicks now. It doesn't mean it's automatic. A child in that circumstance doesn't automatically become a Christian, but I do think they are being guided down a path that points them toward Christ. And uh, I don't think it should be surprising when a child that's four or five years old begins asking questions about the Lord and eternity, and because there should be a hunger that comes up in them. Jesus said, except except you have the faith of a little child, you will not enter into the kingdom. So there's this wonderful transfer of faith that starts early on. And uh. And obviously Daniel's parents were very success and that because he had the faith to stand when he was faced with those trials. 00:14:13 Speaker 1: One thing I would draw a distinction between. I would say that we do need. It's our responsibility as parents to transfer it, to give it, to give it, we're not able to do the receiving that the child themselves has to make that choice at some point. I walk along with a lot of parents and have had parents on here who I know. I've walked many many years and had many many long drawn out prayer meetings with them. And you know, they did all of that, and then the child got to Babylon and bowed. And one thing I can say without question is that the foundation they laid is the foundation that child can come back to and I believe will come back to as they're prayed for and interceded for the children. That because it is a it is a fierce culture, and we don't know, we don't know even in Daniels. We don't hear what happened to those others. Maybe they saw those young men and the fire. Praise God that that were not consumed by the fire, and they remembered. Maybe there were some that did, maybe that were stirred. I hope so. But I know a lot of parents do the diligent work of the transfer, and for whatever reason, a child chooses not to receive it or has a time of wandering. That's why the Lord put that story of the prodigal child in our scripture, you know, in the Gospels, and he himself was a perfect parent in the garden and had two children that rebelled. So it's not automatic. It's you can't just, you know, expect that if I do X, A, B and C, I'm gonna get X, Y and Z. It doesn't work that way. But the foundation that we lay, it's my prayer. I've prayed every day that my children would accept that faith and never depart from it. But even if they do have a time of wandering, I know that I've laid the right foundation and I've been responsible. Before God, I was on perfect parent, but I've transferred the faith, and I love that scripture in Deuteronomy six. There's a similar passage in Deuteronomy eleven that I quote a lot. It's

say, I think it's an echo where we're told to fix these words of God in our hearts and minds, and to tie them as symbols on our hands. They used to walk around with the scripture on them, and to bind them on our forehead, to teach them to our children, talking about them as we sit at home, and as we walk along the road, as we lie down, and as we get up, to write them on the doorframes of our houses, and over the doorframe of my house. I have Psalm ninety one, and we've memorized that psalm and on our gates. That's the next part. So that our days and the days of our children may be many in the land that the Lord swore to give to their ancestors, as many as the days. 00:16:53 Speaker 3: Oh, it's beautiful that the. 00:16:55 Speaker 1: Heavens are above the earth. We are to fix these words of God's in our hearts, and that's our job. That's what we can do as we lie down, as we get up, as we walk along the road, as we're in the cars we're going to soccer practice, or as we're going to school or as we're going to church to have this conversation and to plant the seeds. And we're not responsible for the seed to actually grow. That's out of our hands. But we're to plant the seeds. And I believe, like you said, that if we plant the seeds and we're faithful to tend those seeds, that even if there is a dormant period and the seed isn't coming up right when we want it to, and we're worried about where they are, that we just keep praying over that seed and innerceeding over that seed and prophesying over that seed and declaring over that seed that this foundation, that God's word will not return void, it will not return void. So I love that this. We have to be intentional. We can't leave this to the pastor, as wonderful as the pastor as you are. It's not responsibility to transfer it to every child in your congregation. It's your responsibility to transfer it to your children. And it's my responsibility to transfer to my children and then to tend those little seeds and to pray over them until they get to maturity and they. 00:18:15 Speaker 3: Sure, and it's it's not like you said. It's not a mechanical transfer. It's a relational transfer. You are you are building a relationship with your child so that they can see that your God is so real to you that it creates in them a hunger to know who your God is. But I do I agree with you one hundred percent, Catherine, that that verse and Proverbs training off a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, will not depart from it. Is a is a wonderful proverb. It is, and we have to remember proverbs are wonderful sayings of truth and wisdom that describe how life should be. And the reality is that does describe how life should be, but that doesn't always describe how life truly is. It's not a promise, you know. The book of the Book of Proverbs also tells us that if you bless the Lord and honor him with your life, you'll be blessed for all your days. I mean, that's the Proverbs as well. But you go just a few books

later and you hit job's life. Yeah, if you go at the next book and you look at the Book of Ecclesiastes, which is one of the more sobering books, it really is, which is simply, which I just preached a series through that though, and it was so wonderful for our church to step back and realize, Okay, so the hard hardness that I'm going through in life, even though it seems unfair and difficult. Solomon came to the conclusion that if we set our eye, if we take our eyes off of this world, and if we set our eyes toward the heavens, it gives purpose to the difficulty and purpose to the hardship. And so it but it doesn't always turn out how you want. Ecclesiastes tells us that often the wicked prosper and the righteous suffer. It's just what happens. So when it comes to parenting, even if we did everything right, which we don't, but even if we did everything right, our children still have to have to answer that call. They have to choose to follow after Christ, and that doesn't always happen. And Catherine, I want to pause and say, I'm thankful that you are tender toward that. It's been multiple times now you have mentioned that, whether it's been an email or in the first episode or in this episode, toward the reality of the difficulties of parenting. And thank you for being tender toward that, because so often pastors, podcast speakers, seminar speakers, we are we stand up here and we pretend like if you just do what I say, it will always turn out right. And that's just not reality, because we're broken humans and we live in a broken world. And I'm thankful that that's something that you communicate clearly to your listeners. It's so important. 00:21:14 Speaker 1: Can I say something here? I don't even know if I should say this. I'm tender towards that because I'm walking through that. I did everything. I was homeschooled, I taught the scriptures, I loved, I prayed. 00:21:36 Speaker 4: My husband did too. 00:21:37 Speaker 1: But I have one child who's going through a season of doubt. And I've actually asked that child, can I talk about this. When I started this show three years ago, they were solid in their faith. 00:21:55 Speaker 2: They are not now. 00:21:58 Speaker 1: They were in homeschool circles, youth groups, everywhere we went. There were some toxic influences. And we prayed and we walked, and we sought godly counsel, and we said, God, where do we go? What do we do? And there is a season of doubt here in this child where they don't know what they believe despite our best efforts, and I haven't talked about that on this show before. That's why I'm tender. I was tender before because I had deep relationships with parents that I knew. These were people I'd walked with, and I knew how they trained their children. You know, these weren't superficial relationships, but they were homeschooling right along me. Some of them were on the mission field, some of them were pastors. I knew how they trained their kids. I'd walked with them. I haven't been a perfect parent. It's been a tough road, and I am commit to praying daily. I created a list of scriptures for children for parents whose children are struggling in their faith. I didn't even realize when I created it that I would be praying those scriptures over my own child every day, and I do every day without fail. I pray five pages of scripture over my child, and so does my husband. Those words are becoming words that I've memorized, and I don't have the end of the story yet. But I'm tender because I at one point, I'll just confess to DJ. I thought if I had dotted all my eyes and I crossed all the tea's and my parenting that I would get a different result, and I didn't. And there are times when I've just like God, what happened there? But I can tell you this, the story's not done yet, Amen. And I pray over my child. And I know that my prayers and the words that I planted in this child, because this child memorize that scripture. So I'm ninety one right along with us and all of these verses. This child is just a brilliant, deep thinker and questions a lot of things. And I can't force an experience with God onto my child. All I can do is pray that they will come to the end of themselves and encounter God where they are and receive God where they are. I didn't really expect to go here today's teachay, and I didn't have my Kleenex ready, but there you have it. 00:24:33 Speaker 3: Well, But before we go, I know we wouldn't normally do this in the middle of a podcast. Can we pause and pray? 00:24:40 Speaker 1: Sure? I always pray. I pray all the time. I pray day and night. 00:24:46 Speaker 3: Lord, I just pause and say thank you for Catherine and her husband and their love for their children. Lord, I pray specifically during this time of trial, that you would give wisdom to them. Lord, it's so easy as we minister to other people to never expect the trials to come on our own life. And Lord, I just pray that you would, in your mercy just reach down and do a special work in their family. Lord, the foundation of truth and the foundation of biblical teaching that they've passed along to their children. I pray that that would be the soil through which solid faith would grow through. And Lord, we just we do pray for your hand of protection. It is so easy at this time for Satan to begin attacking. And Lord, we just pray that you would do your will and do your work. And Lord again, thank you for how good you are to us, even though we often fail you. In Christ's name, we pray Amen, Thank you. 00:25:58 Speaker 1: DJ I appreciate that got one more a principle that we can take from the book of Daniel. Why don't we bring this one home With that last principle we can. 00:26:08 Speaker 3: Learn absolutely so so that number three was that we wanted there has to be that transfer of faith. Number four is that it kind of comes up in Daniel Chapter one, verse number eight and nine as well. So in verse number eight it says, therefore he requested of the Prince of the

Eunuchs that he might not defile himself. And then in verse number eleven and twelve, Daniel actually asks for an exception. Daniel was standing in front of the rulers of Babylon and they were telling him, here's what you have to eat, here's how you have to live. Because for three years, it was a three year in doctrination period. And I don't know that people remember that, Catherine, but it was a three year in doctrination period that these young men were going to be indoctrinated to become good young Babylonian men and to become leaders. And during that time Daniel said, I cannot eat this meat because it would violate my faith. It would violate my conscience. Now, what we often do when this happens to our children is they come home and they say, Mom or Dad, this happened at school, or this happened in the workplace. And our tendency, well, my tendency, okay, I'll make this personal. My tendency, my wife's tendency is we so easily want to jump in and we want to fix the problems. But there comes a point where our children have to know how to appeal to their authorities when something has gone wrong that they cannot control. So I think that's the fourth When Daniel knew how to appeal to his ungodly authorities. Daniel did not go in and shout that he had the right not to eat the food. Daniel did not get angry. Daniel did not did not go in and quit. Daniel chose to stand up for his faith, but to do it in a way that communicated his faith well. And it's interesting that though they did not understand, they made accommodations for him. Though they did not understand Daniel's faith. They said, no, Daniel, if you don't eat this meat, then you're going to be sickly, and the King's going to be upset with us. And Daniel said, give me a week, and I promise you I will be more healthy than everyone else. Said, let me eat what I need to eat. And I think we do a disservice when we fight all of our children's battles for them. Now, obviously there are times when we have to step in and Catherine, that is age appropriate. Obviously, the younger they are, the more we have to guide and shepherd them in life. But as our children get older, there does come a point where we need to coach them a law, or teach them how to be able to fight their battles, you know, in an age appropriate way, but how to fight their battles without us having to fight those battles for them. Because when your kids go off to college or when they get into the workplace, I'll tell you what. The best thing that has helped us with this, Catherine, has been our children working at Chick fil A. At one point, all four of our kids worked at Chick fil A for a brief time during one summer. But right now Andrew's coming home from college, he'll be working. Emma will be working at the Laurel works thirty hours a week. We homeschool, We get all of her school done by noon. She works almost every evening. She loves working there. Saved up enough money to buy herself a car a couple of weeks ago, which is awesome, and she's only sixteen years old. Like, she just loves saving money and she's very responsible with her finances. But one of the best things for our kids has been letting them in the secular workforce, because they are confronted with people who have different ideas and different perspectives on the world, people who have different moral values. They come home, they ask questions. We talk every night at dinner. For three years while our kids all worked at Chick fil A. Every night at dinner, we would sit at home and we would talk about what questions came up and work today. What does the Bible say, how do we respond to that? How do we speak the truth but show the love of Christ. And we constantly were going through those things, and I don't think our kids would have been as far along as they are if we had sheltered them from actually being in some type of an atmosphere where they have to take a stand for their faith. Now, obviously you want it to be an opportunity where they're going to succeed, where they can be successful in that stand. But Daniel knew how to appeal to his authorities. And so that's a very important lesson for us as parents, is to train our kids to be able to take a stand when we can then help them along in that process. 00:31:19 Speaker 1: Hey, friends, it's Catherine here. If you're trying to be a godly parent, in this wild and wacky world. 00:31:25 Speaker 2: You need all the. 00:31:26 Speaker 1: Help you can get, and I've got you covered. When you subscribe to my website, you'll get instant access to tons of free resources made just for Christian parents. You'll get my Prodigal Bundle, which is packed with every podcast, article and scripture list I've created for parents walking that tough prodigal road. You'll also get my free eat book Beyond the Lies and covering five myths the culture spreads to mothers, plus powerful scripture list Pray over your kids, and even scripture songs to help your family hide God's word in your hearts without even trying. And of course I'll keep you encouraged with my weekly newsletter full of faith filled PEP talks and outlines of what we're tackling each week on the show. So don't miss out. Head over to Catherine Secers dot com. That's Catherine Scres dot com and subscribe today. Because Christian parenting may be crazy, but you don't have to do it alone. We're a Chick fil A family too. We've got one of our kids working there, and another kid you know that's inspired me a little bit. My second child's he works with his uncle, who is of course a believer. Well, of course not everybody's uncle is, but his uncle is, and he has a long care company. But I'm like, maybe we need to find some places for him to get out. He's not sixteen yet, but you know, get out and be in the secular workforce. That is true because they're going to encounter people with different ideas and that we need to. Especially a lot of the kids and parents in the audience may have kids being educated in the public

schools, they're encountering this every day. But for those parents who do have their kids, we can isolate them too much. If they're homeschooled or if they're in a Christian school setting. If you know, that is a wonderful thing to get them out there, to have them engaging with those ideas and then bringing it back home. I love your idea there where you're sitting around the table and pow wowing about, Okay, what what happened today? What ideas were you presented with? Who who are these other people in your life? And what might they believe? And how can we compassionately and truthfully share our faith with others Because people are hungry, not just for chick fil A sandwiches too. 00:33:43 Speaker 3: Absolutely another area that has come up though at the workplace and Chick fil A is known. If the world would look at Chick fil A and say it's a Christian company, yeah, But the reality is when you get into the workplace, you have a variety of people that are and so there is though a number of people that work there that come from a variety of religious backgrounds. And that also has been really good for our kids because they have been challenged in what they believe from other people who believe differently. You know, It's one thing if a person who's secular, who believes nothing about the Bible, if they challenge you, well, then you could say, well I believe the moon's made of cheese, and they'll say, well, I just don't believe that. But if another Christian comes to you and says, well what do you believe about this, well, clearly they have scripture that they're using. You have scripture that you're using. And it has really challenged our kids to rightly divide the word because they've had to They've had to be able to articulate to other people who have a baseline understanding of Christianity what they believe and why they believe and why they believe it. And that's been an excellent challenge for our kids as well. 00:35:03 Speaker 1: That is so good. You know. One thing I wanted to mention about what happens in the Book of Daniel to these three young men along with Daniel, is the moment they get to Babylon. What does Babylon do? They change their names, and that is what the world, our culture is seeking to do with our kids. You have Daniel who was renamed his name, his name Belta Shazar. 00:35:26 Speaker 3: It's in verse number eight, verse number seven. 00:35:28 Speaker 1: I was looking for their name meanings. I'd written them up here. I have them right here, Okay, Belta Shazar that actually means bail protects the king, whereas Daniel means God is my judge. Hannanaiyah became Shadrack. Hannanayah means grace, mercy, gift of the Lord, whereas Shadraq means command of Aku, who is the Babylonian god of the moon. Michelle becomes me Shak. Michelle means who is like God, what a beautiful name, meeting who is like our Lord? But Meshak means belonging to Aku, which God of the moon, and then Azariah is helped by God, whereas Abin to go a servant of

Nego, meaning the Babylonian god of wisdom. So that's what's going to happen as our children get out there in this Babylonian culture, is that the enemy is going to come and he's going to want to change their identity, change their name, change their standard. That's what he did with Shadrakmischak and Bendigo and Daniel. These are the things you should be eating. This is what you should be consuming. That's what the world is going to say. And our hope and our prayer is as we've taught our children, and I've got I'm sitting here with all of these children under my nest, and I see some that are flourishing. And I've got this one as I just mentioned, who is struggling in the faith. But we have prepared them with the truth of who God says they are. They do know this, and I trust I am praying for for my one child who's struggling to come and have an encounter with God. But the truth of who our children is, their identity in Christ is where we need to spend a lot of time transferring that idea to them, because the world, the second they get out and into the world, is going to transfer that idea of who they are and rewrite their name, rewrite who they are, their purpose and their meaning in life. And Daniel is one really great place to camp as parents. I'm so glad that you've unpacked this for us. Tell us again where they can learn more about you and your podcast DJ, and get in touch with you if they want to. 00:37:44 Speaker 3: Absolutely so. Our website is growing beetter together dot org, and our podcast is growing better together with DJ and LORII, and of course we're on Facebook and other things like that other social media outlets. But honestly, if people are just want to come listen to our podcast, that's really what we would enjoy. But Catherine, I want to let you know how much I have just absolutely enjoyed talking with you. This has been such a blessing. 00:38:10 Speaker 1: I know this went way longer than we planned. It's awesome. 00:38:14 Speaker 3: And I want to highlight one thing that I think is important. Even even those who grew up not grew up, even those who had the closest relationship with Jesus Christ, the twelve Disciples, even among those when Christ was crucified. Only one stood around. You had multiple that walked away that were doubting and questioning. And it isn't until after the resurrection that Jesus came to Peter and the other men as they were fishing, and he was on the seashore and they see him walking, and Peter says, is that our Lord? And he throws off his jacket and he swims, as Peter always does in the scripture. He just with with reckless, abandoned swims to the Savior. And it's at that point that Jesus looks in Peter and says, Peter, do you love me? Peter? Do you love me? Peter? Do you love me? And I'm so thankful that even when our children stray from where we want them to be and where we hope they would be, our heavenly Father hasn't changed where he is. He's still right there saying I love you, I'll welcome you

back, and I want you to know my prayer will be, and at me and my wife, our prayer will be that God will do a work in your family. But I'm thankful that God is right there, yes, and he's right there with y'all as well, And though sometimes as parents we go through times of hardship. We have a faithful God and I'm so thankful for that. 00:39:53 Speaker 1: I am too. I've grown a lot, I've learned a lot. My husband and I are completely united, and you know, we have a Here's one thing I can attest to. We have a really great relationship with all of our kids, even our kids who's struggling in their faith. We have a really great and like I said, I actually asked this child recently, can I talk about that? Sometimes? I have a podcast about this pH up and say and they're like, you know, I've been very sensitive because I don't want to ever do anything that would damage my relationship with my child. That's a paramount importance to me. But my child said, sure, that's okay, that's okay. It's where I am. And so we're walking through this faithfully, along with a lot of my listeners. I get more emails about that than anything else. And I will say I was always sensitive to this, even before it became part of my own journey. And I don't know exactly why it's become part of my journey, but I think I do know why, because we raised these little, beautiful human beings. But they are autonomous creatures. God gave them free will. We cannot we cannot coerce them. We cannot convict them. That God's job to convict. It's the enemy's job that coerce. 00:41:00 Speaker 3: Is. 00:41:00 Speaker 1: We're supposed to guide them and to love them unconditionally and to point them towards the truth. And that's where we are with all of our kids. And for whatever reason, you know, we have kids that are really flourishing in their faith and then one who's struggling. But praise God, we're encouraged and we stay in the Word every day and we pray faithfully for a child. And I've really enjoyed this time with you as well. I honestly, I didn't know that we were going to talk about that today, and I was kind of debating in the middle of it. Do I go here? 00:41:33 Speaker 3: Do I go here? 00:41:33 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think, you know, at some point I knew I was going to talk about it, probably on the show. It's where I've been for We've been going through this for about eight months now, I think. So Anyways, for whatever reason, I guess that God, God chose you today to have that conversation and to guide us along. And I do want to encourage people to go to your website and to listen to your podcast. I was listening to one last night that is awesome, and I was telling you for the show, I want you to come back on, Okay in twenty twenty four sometime, I really want you to come back on. It's seven ways to win every argument with your spouse and lose your marriage. 00:42:10 Speaker 3: Absolutely, you can do it. You can win the argument. You sure can. 00:42:14 Speaker 1: It was so good. So why don't next time we get together. Okay, I'm gonna be on your show in a little bit talking about ways that our kids can we can help our kids to be countercultural. 00:42:24 Speaker 3: Yes, and I'm so looking forward to that. 00:42:27 Speaker 1: I'm very excited about that. I've written on that and podcasted on that before. But I I if you'll commit, maybe at the same time, we can tag team if we don't talk too long, so you just keep going. But have you back on to talk about those seven ways to win every argument with your spouse and lose your marriage. 00:42:42 Speaker 3: We'd love to do it. 00:42:43 Speaker 1: I was a little convicted with a few though, so I was like, Ooh, I've done that, Ooh, I've done that. So I'd love to have you back on. Thank you so much. This has just been wonderful. This has been awesome. Hey, I want to encourage you to stick around for an update for anyone who is going through a similar journey with your family. I think the update from my family is really going to inspire and encourage you. Yeah. 00:43:17 Speaker 2: So, now, in five. 00:43:19 Speaker 1: Years of podcasting, I'm re recording the intro and the post conversation thoughts here in August of twenty twenty six. This is still by far the rawest interview I have ever done. It honestly took me by surprise when DJ pointed out how sensitive I was in the conversation to the plight of parents of prodigals, and well, now you know why in the moment. 00:43:47 Speaker 2: I wasn't really sure how to handle it. 00:43:49 Speaker 1: Do I go there? 00:43:49 Speaker 2: Do I not go there? Is this the right time to share this part of our story? I honestly wasn't sure. 00:43:57 Speaker 1: Now. At the time of this conversation a couple of year years ago, I had recently been invited to speak on the topic of prodigal parenting on the Redeeming the Chaos podcast with Laurie Christie. So I asked my daughter beforehand if she was okay with me sharing this part of our journey, and she said yes. But listen, moms and dad, if she had not been okay with that, I would not have talked about our personal journey. Nothing is more important to me than my relationship with my daughter, with all of my kids, so I'm sure that you feel the same way. I just want you to know I had her permission to share this, and because she had given me permission, I felt free to share this part of our journey with you. You know, I kind of imagined that when I finally did share this part of our story, it would be a very planned, intentional moment. But you know what, I think God saw a fit for me to share it with DJ, and I could not have asked for a kinder, more compassionate person to share that revelation with DJ. He has such a pastor's hear you is such a soft place for me to land, and I'm so grateful for his wisdom, his encouragement, and especially the prayer that he prayed over our family. It was so special to me. 00:45:13 Speaker 2: And I can. 00:45:14 Speaker 1: Now give you an update because this

interview originally aired a couple of years ago, My daughter was agnostic for about a year, but she has come back around to believing in God. 00:45:26 Speaker 2: Now I can't say she's exactly where I would like her to be spiritually, and she knows that. 00:45:31 Speaker 1: But we have really deep, rich, wonderful relationship with each other. We have open lines of communication, and I know that she is searching for truth. And while she is searching, I'm doing what I can do. 00:45:45 Speaker 2: I'm praying. 00:45:46 Speaker 1: I can also honestly say that my husband and I pray the Word of God over my daughter every single day. Those scriptures I put together as a free resource for parents. It's called Scriptures to Pray over Prodigal Children. And you know, when I created that resource for subscribers at my website, Katherine seekers dot com, I never imagined that one day we would be praying those very scriptures over our own child. But we have, and we do every single day without fail because I know, I know that the Word of God does not return void. There's nothing more powerful that you can pray over your children than the Word of God. Now, I want to leave you with a few final thoughts on prodigal parenting. Wisdom that I've earned over the what is it three years now I've been in that part of the journey myself, because I believe these thoughts are going to encourage you, and I especially want to say this because prodigal parents can sometimes carry a very unnecessary burden of shame within the church and within Christian circles. Like I said earlier, I never thought we would be here, even though I knew so many amazing godly parents who had been incredibly intentional about teaching scripture, instilling biblical principles, and engaging their children in deep spiritual conversations, and many of them, like me, were homeschooling parents. I still somehow thought, no, not me, That won't be me, not my kid. Somewhere deep inside, I believe that if I dotted every eye and crossed every tea of biblical parenting, I would get a different result. My child would not experience a season of doubt or wandering. But as I have said many times on this show, God is the perfect parent, and he had two children in a garden with an infinite number of good choices they could make on any given day, and only one bad choice. 00:48:06 Speaker 2: And still they chose the one bad choice. 00:48:09 Speaker 1: With perfect parenting, Adam and Eve walked away from God. So if our expectation with godly parenting is Nope, not me, not my kid, that will never happen in my house, then we would have to be a better parent than God to guarantee that outcome. And moms and dad, we're not a better parent than God. And you know what, that kind of thinking can lead to two very damaging outcomes. First, if our child doubts God or walks away from the faith, we can spiral and to blame and shame. Well, I guess it must have been my fault or it was my spouse's fault, and we start searching for

the place where we failed. But that is not helpful and it is not biblical. Your child's choices are not yours, and their choices are not your fault. Now, that is not to say that we shouldn't take inventory of our mistakes and repent where we have missed the mark where we have sinned. Of course, yes, of course we should do that. But our kids can't point to our failures to justify their own anymore than we can point to the failures of our parents to justify our failures. You know, that is what Adam did in the garden. He pointed at Eve, and Eve pointed at the snake. That is how the enemy operates. He's always pointing at someone else to blame. And you know what, we can take that blame on ourselves as parents and point at ourselves over and over and over, but no good comes of it. We got to take that blame and nail it to the cross, moms and dads, because Jesus took that blame on himself, and the other outcome can happen when our kids do follow the Lord. We can quietly begin to judge other parents and think, well, obviously I was more diligent, I was more faithful, I was more strategic. Look at my kids, they're all following the Lord, moms and dads. That is dangerous territory too, it really is. If your child is doubting or not following the Lord, hear me, clearly, stop with the blame game. You were not a perfect parent, because no one is except for God, and even God's children rebelled. We all make mistakes, we all have things we could have and should have done differently. But your child's response to God ultimately belongs to them. And if your kids are following the Lord, praise God. Be grateful, celebrate His work. 00:51:02 Speaker 2: In their lives. 00:51:03 Speaker 1: Yes, you may have faithfully invested in their spiritual formation, and you should continue to do that, But their response to the Lord was ultimately not your doing. The work he does in your child's heart is his work, yeah, not yours. You know, I want to tell you a quick story that encapsulates my thoughts on godly parenting. 00:51:27 Speaker 2: Here. 00:51:29 Speaker 1: In high school, I had a friend named Miriam, or at least I'm going to call her Miriam. Miriam was the butt of every bad joke on our campus. She was socially awkward, she had no friends, and honestly, she had a really difficult journey. Her parents were not Christians, they didn't take her to church, and her younger sister got pregnant in high school. But Miriam chose a very different path. I befriended Miriam. I invited her to church, I took her to youth events. She got connected with young life, and Miriam came to know the Lord. She found Jesus with parents who did nothing to cultivate her faith, like literally nothing. And you know what, Miriam never wandered. She never took the prodigal path, despite having prodigal parents. I tell you this not to absolve any of us from our responsibility as parents. We absolutely are called to train our children in the way they should go. We are called to take seriously these incredible lessons from the Book of Daniel. That is our job, that is what it means to be a godly parent. But the results, yeah, the results are not up to us. They are in God's hands. 00:52:55 Speaker 2: And I know that can. 00:52:56 Speaker 1: Feel very disheartening because we would like more trust me, I know, But in reality and truth, it's very liberating because I am only called to do my part and then I can leave the rest of my child's journey in God's hands while I pray like I've been adictine MOMK, yeah, I do that. 00:53:20 Speaker 2: But here's what we've got to remember. 00:53:22 Speaker 1: We are not judged by God based on our results. 00:53:26 Speaker 2: Now, let's be honest. 00:53:28 Speaker 1: We may be judged by other Christian parents based on our results, but we are. 00:53:32 Speaker 2: Not judged by God. 00:53:35 Speaker 1: God judges our faithfulness. He judges our obedience to Him in our parenting. 00:53:42 Speaker 2: And here's the beautiful part. 00:53:44 Speaker 1: Our faithfulness and standing firm maintaining a godly witness as our children go out into the world and faithfully praying. Don't forget to pray over them every single day. None of that work returns void. Galatians six, verse nine says, let us not become weary and doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. But here's the thing, moms and dads, we don't get to determine the proper time God does. That means we may not reap that harvest when we want to, which is if we're honest. For every parent is right now. We want to see the fruit now. We want to see our kids walking closely with the Lord. Now. We want to know that all of those prayers, all of those conversations, all of those moments of pouring into them have made a difference now. 00:54:42 Speaker 2: But we don't get to do the reaping. 00:54:44 Speaker 1: Our job is not controlling the outcome. Our job is faithfulness. Our job is perseverance. Our job is trusting that God, the perfect parent, loves our children even more then we do, and he will pursue our children to the ends of the earth. Our job is to partner with him by the way. Galatians six, verse nine is one of the scriptures I included in my resource for parents of prodigals, and my husband and I know that verse very well. 00:55:23 Speaker 2: Because we have been praying it over our. 00:55:25 Speaker 1: Daughter every single day for the past four years, along with all the other verses on that list, every one of them. 00:55:36 Speaker 2: So, moms and dads, I want. 00:55:37 Speaker 1: To leave you with one final thought. If this episode touched a tender place in your heart, if you are walking through the pain of a child who is questioning, wandering, or is very far from the heart of God, please now you are not alone, and if you need a sympathetic ear, feel free to email me at Catherine You're in at Katherine Segers dot com. I truly love hearing from my listeners and I would be honored to hear your story and to pray for you and your child personally. And as always, remember God gave you your kids, your specific kids for a reason. That's because you hold the key to unlocking who. 00:56:24 Speaker 2: God created them to be. We'll see you next time. 00:56:35 Speaker 4: Christian parent Crazy World is a production of Life Audio and Salem Media. If you liked what you heard today, please take a second to rate and review this podcast in your favorite podcast app so that more listeners like you can find the show. For more faith filled inspirational podcasts. Visit us at lifeaudio dot com. 00:57:00 Speaker 3: Y