النص الكامل لحلقة Richard Lloyd: From Wollongong Wolves to Australian Football Insight

in division one. ⁓ my father was ⁓ an inspiration to me there. He was ⁓ the coach of all these sort of we were country, it was only fifty K's from Sydney, but we were considered country kids back then and ⁓ winning four little championships in a row and playing some really entertaining football. It was ⁓ the highlight of my week ⁓ Saturday Sunday for for those four years. Absolutely loved it. ⁓ we lived on five acres. ⁓ my father built a goal and come up with a net, threw sixteen balls out there, and that was my after school activity for, you know, ten to fifteen years out on the farm, just shooting, playing free kicks, scoring goals, wanting to be like Pele, wanting to be, you know, the world's best out at Little Leppington. So they're they're the fondest memories I've got of ⁓ playing football at that young age. See, the the thing that I found talking to the people I've talked to is we all grew up doing that. Especially especially every New South Wales. Like we had the space and we all went and play. We put four we used to go play with our mates put four four shirts in the ground as goals and we used to play. And and I'm trying to teach my kid that, but we don't have that any they don't have that anymore. Anymore. They need they need ⁓ us to provide that structure to entertain. Yeah. It's it's saddened. Yeah, it's it's and and with all the development going on. Like over here, there's that much development going on. They're taking away all the all the all the big spaces where kids can go and play in the neighborhood and go and play play football or or rugby or AFL or anything they want to do over it. Yeah, yeah. The best one well, I'm a an assistant principal to primary school is my other job. and our boss is just so proactive in keeping kids busy and and giving them options for lunch times and recess. She ⁓ she put in a little fifty by forty artificial pitch with small goals with nets on it, ⁓ a little grandstand for the kids and they are chewing up at recess and like Yeah, it's sick. It's it's awesome. But that's he that's easy. One parent got on board whose kids have gone through the school and he wanted to put something back into the community. He wanted to purchase ⁓ what, FIFA dugouts? Yeah, right. But the boss sort of said, ⁓ look, there are other things that we probably could use money for, but they put lights on it and they they rent it out every day of the week and it'll probably pay for itself within a year. Well yeah, you could rent that out to any any any clubs to do trading on if it's in wet. Yeah, it's more a it's ⁓ not a cheap ⁓ it's a cheaper version, but it's been built well, but you'd probably use it for kids' football. more than what you have adults on it. But yeah, the kids love it. It's ⁓ Yeah, right. Taking a little bit of that space that we used to go and be creative in our spaces, but yeah, they they're they're queuing up to play. Yeah, right, that's good. That's good to hear. When ⁓ you grew up playing in Sydney or sort of Sydney, what was football like there during your childhood? So we we went through that Catherine Fields stage and then ⁓ some of the local ⁓ representative ⁓ clubs like Southern Districts, you had your Marconi's around there, you had your City United's, so Southern Districts was the next sort of ⁓ pathway, the next step, and we we moved into ⁓ into that space in under thirteens. Previously, before going there, actually went to King Thomas Love, which was the feeder club into Sydney United. And we had an under twelve yeah, we had an under twelve team there with ⁓ Tony Kryzevic in it. Klaus Okon, who's Paul's brother. Arguably you could come up with just as good a player, if not better than the old Paul that went through. Klaus was a a meister on the ball, just things didn't go right for him in that football pathway, for what I don't know what reason, but he was he was a quality player in the team. ⁓ so we had a whole lot of young blapes Anthony Surgeon who played for the Wolves as well and and other teams. He he played in that under twelve. ⁓ King Thomas Love moved into Southern District setup and my father coached us there. And there was a mini Ampole Cup they used to have. The the senior grades in NSL used to play the Ampole Cup, but the under thirteen age group had a championship and we got all the way through to the final and we were red hot and ⁓ St George got us, I it was two one. one of those games where you had multiple chances and you've gotta put that ball away. You gotta put it in that when you get presented. And that's been a bugbear of mine through ⁓ through watching ⁓ Australian football right up to now. We just we had our Vadookas, we had our cules and we had those guys that just knew how to put it in there through I don't know whether it's going through the AIS and that sort of programme, but we just don't have those clinical moments finished off. to give us those results that we want. Yeah, when I talked to in in in my latest episodes I talked to Ron Smith and he was the coach of of Viduca and all that in in the AIS and he said they they the difference with that was they they eight seven days a week they were training. Football, yeah. Yeah. So that was it. Like they w they were training six days playing on a s on the seventh day. training six days competitive, like just keep on turnover, turnover, turn over, turn over. And and he reckons that that that was the biggest benefit of of of that program. And those young blokes, Ron and ⁓ a couple of others, would have put considerable time into ⁓ picking that talent and then nurturing it. Whereas now we ⁓ unfortunately ⁓ down a pathway where there's a lot of ⁓ payment for programs. things like that and I just go, you're not gonna get the best if you're if you're having to pay for it, yeah. You're not you're not gonna get the best. I understand there's some things you might have to pay for some uniform whatever. But those guys would have gone in as the best and then the program

was there for them to use and and you know, the stats will will back it up. The number of players that went on to represent Australian level and play overseas was phenomenal through that institute program. Yeah, he said that during during during the 'cause that was the golden generation so the ⁓ six generation that he taught as as kids. ⁓ he used to sit there and go, One day you'll play the World Cup and they used to say, No, we won't, no we won't and then in ⁓ six when they qualified, he was on the plane with them and he's going, I told you's like us in City, he's going, I told you's so what did what did playing for those clubs at junior level teach? Teach you about Each time we stepped up, like we started in that fourth division, and you know, then the level got and then the level got better, the level got more teams you competed against. And then when you stepped up to that ⁓ like that mini ⁓ Pole Cup, you're you're in the best environment in New South Wales. I'd be the best two teams have got through. You've played quite a few good teams on the way. So back then I think ⁓ there's so many represents. teams now. Back then, you know, when you did try out for them, you were picking ⁓ the best. But now we've got a a lot more players now. I know that New Football New South Wales is working really hard to to get those programs right. And ⁓ you know, the academy teams that they've got now with West Sydney Wanderers and Sydney F C and the like, the kids that are coming through there are are pretty top shelf that are coming through, you know. So I think there are improvements ⁓ coming. ⁓ we just need to stick at that and put it in the net when we get a chance. I don't think we do enough coaching of you know, the art of finishing. Yeah. You represented New South Wales School Boys. How big of an achievement was that at that time? I I got two two gigs. I got ⁓ the under thirteens, I was in the ⁓ New South Wales team and got to play ⁓ Down in Tasmania against ⁓ all the other states. Back then there was only one state team for each of the states in ⁓ in in the country. I remember playing Victoria was probably the I would be the best team. ⁓ I think they won it that year. They had Paul Trimboli ⁓ up front for them and Paul played for South Melbourne. Pretty handy player. ⁓ yeah, he could he could finish, yeah. See, he was one of those guys that that had the knack. ⁓ Yeah, the standard there was pretty good. I still remember, you know, you'd turn up to the games and the coaches would make wear your black trousers first time you'd worn black trousers ⁓ as a an under under thirteen player and you got your polished shoes on, you got your you know, your polo shirt with your your collar and and everything was sort of ground into you that this is the standard. You set a high standard for yourself off the pitch, you have a high standard on the pitch. So that that was probably what I took away from it. the the whole approach to things, get every part of your your life and faculty right and ⁓ your standards will remain high. That's what I think. Was there yeah, that's a that's a very and and I was the same, no, I didn't play at a high level, but I used to always we used to have to have a cod shirt. We used to have to have jeans, cod shirt, every Saturday get the degree on boots polished. I mean these days there's no polish for the boots, but No, they'd all fall apart these days if you pull polish on ⁓ So Yeah, and your shin pads are a wee bit bigger back then too. Yeah. Was there a coach or mentor during those times that really influenced you? Yeah, I had I had dad. I had dad for probably about five years and he ⁓ dad went on to coach New South Wales teams. ⁓ he had Popovich and Swarzer in his ⁓ under thirteen, fourteen teams and fifteen teams in the national championships. something that, you know, he's very proud of. still in contact with Mark. ⁓ and the beauty of football, I've got a pretty good story about, you know, the reason you play is you make good connections and you you end up meeting lifelong friends and people that are there for you when you need them, you know. And And dad had a quadruple bypass last year and ⁓ all the family all went in there and were chipping away, trying to keep him motivated because he's eighty one and we're going, you know, this is a pretty pretty major operation. They found a couple of vows they needed to change as well, so they changed that and he got to a stage in hospital where we had nothing else to sort of give, right? And he's going, Rich, I can't do this anymore You know, you had a few swelling issues, bit of fluid. And he thought he was there, but then he hit a couple of obstacles. And I contacted Mark Schwarzer and I just said, Mark, any chance you could just send a message to a former coach. Just I told him the story, you know, and God love him. Mark sent a bloody WhatsApp video to Ian. It was only a minute. But the the spring in his step After hearing this message from someone that dad had coached and then followed through, you know, become a Chelsea fan because of Mark and just followed him because of how well his journey was going. And and Dad feels he had some little part in that back in the day as a coach. And then Mark's return the favor just by saying, Hey, life's not that bad. Pull yourself together, get yourself out of bed, get going. And and he bloody did. And now it's a year gone. And we can't stop him. He's Kick it on, you know. But that's that's the that's the thing. Like it I think I think a lot of people don't realise that those coaches or those people that were in your in your life as a junior football player, they they they shaped you for who you really are. Like he he he had a he had an impact with Mark Schwarzer who is arguably I I'm gonna say second best 'cause I like Bosnich, but second if not if not best probably Yeah, if not if not best goalkeepers we've ever produced. And and and your dad had your dad had that little just little

interaction with him and Yeah, when you look back on life, all those people you come across, you take you take that one little good thing that you see they do and you you put it in your kitty. It's the same with ⁓ my teaching, my coaching and playing. It's just I bumped into all these people and I took one little thing. I still I still remember playing with Scotty Olerenshaw. He came down to the Wolves one year. And Scotty is a a former, you know, an Australian player. And he played up top and he just said, Rich, there's a a a a one, two, three count. That's the window on how quick we've got to think and he goes, If I'm showing for it and you look up and go one, two, three, I'm just turning and going and you've got to deliver that ball. in behind because I'm going. And then just those little tips he gave me, we started to build up a connection when we're playing. And I'm going, Shit, that's not that's not that hard. But he he told me that and I went, Okay. And then I started to learn from him. And so that that stuck with me for ages. And now the kids I teach and coach, I just go, mate, have a think about this. If you're in that space, count a little one, two, three in your head. If you haven't got it, can you go? And then we'll teach the others to deliver. Yeah. And the kids start doing that. And it's all come from Scotty, and I'm sure someone's imparted that knowledge onto him, some you know, coach that he's had along the way. But all those little bits just get passed on and yeah, very valuable. Yeah, I've got Scott next week on on here. Next week from Malaysia. Yeah. Quality guys. At seventeen you made them move from Sydney to Wollongong. God's country as I like to call it. My wife might not fit that. But I do What led you to that decision? So you finish year twelve, ⁓ and had a couple of stints at Paramount of ⁓ the old Melita who were in the state league. ⁓ and mum sort of said to me, She goes, Listen, you gotta get something behind your head just in case this dream of yours all falls in a heap. I suggest you start looking at something else you can do, as well as your football. So the first thing I took the lazy option and I found this ⁓ trainee accountant's job at Southwell Engineering at Camden. In the meantime, I'd applied to go to uni 'cause teaching was in the family. Mum mum was a teacher, former principal. So I applied for that at uni, thinking I could get in down at Wollagong. That looks like a pretty cool place to go. And I worked the summer holiday as a ⁓ trainee accountant and I was bored out of my brains. I lasted the thirteen weeks, got the one week holiday pay, and then resigned. Come down to uni, got into primary teaching, ⁓ worked out a place I could stay down here. And then my dad knew a a coach down here, and you might know him as well. I know Begsy knows him fairly well, Larry Gaffney. ⁓ yeah. Yep. So Larry was a coach of Fairy Meadow back in the day. So dad gave him a call because they had a common interest in training greyhounds. He and Larry, as well as the football. And anyway, he rang Larry and Larry said, Well, bring him down for a trial. We're playing up at South Coast United's ground, which is in McClellan Park. And I've gone down and I'm only a seventeen year old and he goes, Right, you're going on in the youth the youth grade. So I strapped on the boots, went on, and I've banged in two in the first five minutes and he's dragged me off, going, You can go and reserve grade, we'll have a look at you there. So I went in reserve grade, there's no way of a lie. First ten minutes, I'm banging another one. Anyway, Larry's gone four half time, take him off. So he's taken me off and he started me in first grade, and I scored in that. And so that was the start of something pretty special. ⁓ and Larry signed me that day as a ferry meadow player. ⁓ John Danzo was probably the first ⁓ player that I met, similar age. ⁓ Johnny was absolute gun up front. ⁓ we built a combination, we trained together. Johnny was pressing for the Wolves. ⁓ trying to think whether it was Glenn Fontana might have started coaching after Larry at Ferry Meadow. And ⁓ Glenn was very proactive in trying to get a few of the players off to the Wolves there. ⁓ I think Johnny was the first one to go when Plen was the coach. And then I was coaching, ⁓ I sorry I was playing And if Flem is coaching, I went down for a trial and I I nailed I I trialed really well for the Wolves that first year I went down and ⁓ and I'll never forget this too, right? 'Cause I'm good mates with Plemm and this is one of those pivotal moments where I'd train the house down and I'm talking to dad and you're there going, ⁓ I'm in. I didn't I didn't get picked. Right? So two choices. I sook and winged and called Phlem every name under the sun. Or do I take his advice and go back and play against the men to build up a bit more? And you know, that's what Plemm said to to Glenn. He's got to play another year against the men. He needs to harden up a bit more. And and when you've trained and trialed really well and someone's saying that, you're sort of in your head going, ⁓ bullshit, I've I've trained the house down. But it was the best advice and best thing I ever did. So I went back, played against the men next year, picked up when Dave Ratcliffe was handed the reins. And that was something that I try and impart on a lot of ⁓ the parents in particular of kids I coach. They want to be their kids' best friend at times. And they don't want them to go through that heartache of being told you train well but you're not at it yet. All right. There's always a good good learning opportunity when you get told you're not good at something. Go back and show ⁓ And you know, Flem and I have a beer now and just have a laugh over it and go. That was the best advice I was given for them, you know. What were your first impressions of football in the Wara? Well, coming down to Fairy Meadow, ⁓ I just know, you know, it introduced me to the

fraternity club. I probably need to put a little bit of weight on as a skinny bloke 'cause I'd grown so quickly in those late developing sort of years. ⁓ and I went to the frat and the old ⁓ Italian ladies in the old kitchen there, I'd walk along and there's always a couple of extra scoops of this and that that would put on my plate. ⁓ 'cause they knew that you played with Ferry Meadow. There's a good connection between the clubs and and the football club. ⁓ yeah, I I thought it was pretty special. There was ⁓ it was very close knit. And then I started to, you know, meet people that played Illora Premier League and y yeah, the whole football ⁓ area down here is massive and still is. Yes, it's ⁓ it's it's it it lost a bit a couple of years ago when when Pretty much all the club like it was only the Premier League and then all the clubs disappeared. It was during COVID time. Yeah. Win Winuna got relegated and they just disappeared and they've come back this year, obviously. And I I don't know because when I when I was over 'cause I left in two thousand and eight to come over here. And they the Premier League was the Premier League, but you always had a first division and and when I was growing up you had a second division. And then all of a sudden it just went like downsized. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The the the the leadership group of ⁓ football south coast, yeah, sort of went one way and now I think they've gone the other way, yeah, with the I think there's t three divisions now, yeah. Yeah, there's th three Ilura Premier League divisions, which I think is too much. There's too many there's too many like I went and watched w when I was over there in April I was over for a for a funeral and ⁓ when I watched Winuna Vers Balandi and it was it was good, but it's like it's not the quality that it was when I was growing up. I looted it a a bit. Hm. And and and I think they're on the ro I think they're on the right track because when you look at a lot of the teams ⁓ that are just say you take Wollongong United for an example, they're they've got a lot of ⁓ young players that have come through the wolves. Yeah. Okay, so Peter over there's got a very good eye for talent and some of those kids with the wolves, because you you've got a Chris Price is a good example, right? One of the ultimate left fullbacks. He's played ten years for for Woolengold Wolves, even more. And for ten years there have been ten left fullbacks coming through the system. Yeah. That you can't accommodate, right? Because Pricey's just got the experience and two good. So those ten left fullbacks then need to find some clubs and and you're finding a lot of the ⁓ IPL clubs will then pick ⁓ up. And these kids come out of playing ⁓ you know, MPL standard use football. So they're bringing good value to the competition. And I think, you know, they're they're raising the standards again with these players coming through. ⁓ there's the Flame ⁓ program as well. They're stepping the game up, ⁓ and they're got players that are coming through that are are pretty good as well that will then filter into those, you know, local competitions and and help develop it and make it better. Yeah, which you need you need that because you can't you can't just buy buy comps like you can use for the Alberta. No. So when you got the opportunity to join well, I'm gonna call ⁓ the Wolves. Yeah. It's it was Willigong City at that time, wasn't it? Before the Wolves? It was Willong City. I think I was there it was probably it just changed. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, yeah. When that opportunity came about, that was do you do you remember the first day training with the senior squad? ⁓ just being in there and ⁓ you know, we had the old Brand the the new Brandon Park ⁓ back then and just going into those dressing rooms and you yeah with David Skeen, you with Dave Ratcliffe, ⁓ you know Australian players and you're intimidated to start with, but then after a couple of sessions you find out they're just they're good blokes but they're they want their spot and they're not gonna give it to you. And y if you're gonna come in youngster, they're gonna find out. ⁓ I remember Dave Skeen, who awesome player, you know, and Dave this is after a few years of being there. I've I've got the nod at training to be in the midfield. And I've sort of taken Dave's spot this particular week. And then the tackles for that Friday, they're flying in. I remember he absolutely smashed me. It was one of those moments again, right? Do I go over in the corner and have a sook about it or do I get back in it? And next tack on him, I absolutely put him over the fence and then he thought it was gonna be on, but he came up and shook my hand. He goes, I'll play with you any day. You know, I'll be in the midfield with you any day and I went l lesson learnt, you know, lesson learnt. He smashed me and then yeah, I I got him back in the next one. He goes, I rate that. So it was a very steep learning curve that that first ⁓ that first year with with those experienced guys. But the ⁓ So yeah, how old were you how old were you then? So I was ⁓ just turned nine twenty, twenty years of age. Yeah. And then ⁓ you know my best if I look back, th I played my best when I was probably about twenty three, twenty four. Yeah. And ⁓ yeah, I was just starting to hit my straps with that and just yeah, getting the team bus from the frat up to the airport and then getting on a plane to to fly to Adelaide to play and then you get put up in a hotel. ⁓ I still remember going in the ground there at Hindmarsh and there was a bookmaker and he used to have the old tote board up as you walk in and he's doing the totes on first goal scorer and you you see your name up there with, you know, first time you walked in you twenty five to one to score a goal. And next time you go back you're you're seven to one, you know, because you banged ⁓ a few goals in that year and the next year you go back they're going, ⁓ this play this play can put

a few in, so your price came down and that was a sign that you're doing okay. Didn't want to put a bet on yourself? Well back then you probably could have, you know what I mean? You would have you would have got away with it. But no, it's just it all those things were just cool to watch, you know. Making your NSL debut. ⁓ must have been a special day. What do you remember about it? I just remember like at Brandon Park we used to get back in the day you used to get a decent crowd there. The the IPL ⁓ if you remember the bar that was in the corner and then they had the ⁓ barbecue down low I ⁓ I believe I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I believe every IPL club is given an opportunity to ⁓ to run the barbecue for a week and they'd make I don't know if the wolves split the profits or or whatever with them. But ⁓ you know, one particular club would run that and then there was a bar up there and I sort of made it made it my job. If I did score that I'd run to that, you know, corner post and that's where I'd do my celebration because there are a lot of people that you knew there, you know. Another thing I learned ⁓ along the way, Glenn Fontana was ⁓ a good inspiration for both coaching and he coached me as ⁓ when I when I was playing as well, but also when I went into coaching he he gave me Quite a bit of guidance on that. But one of his big tips was he just said, Richard, when you score, just make sure if you run to a corner post, you run to the correct one. I said, What do you mean, Fonny? He said, Well, when he scored his one of his first goals, the whole team had sort of said to him, Listen, you run to that corner post and you celebrate like a champion, right? So Fonny's run to this corner post over here and the rest of the teams run to this one. And this corner post is where the camera is, and all the experienced players knew where the camera was, but Fonnie was over the other side. So he said to me, make sure when you run, run to the corner post where the camera is, and that's where it was down in that corner of the bar at ⁓ Brandon Park. Fond memories. Looking back, see I have a other thing about guests that have that that have fade in the NSL before, and and I and I compare it to I like the ethnic. ethnic difference in the NSL comp yeah, compared to what compared to what the A League is now. ⁓ how different was the NSL compared to today's professional game? So if you went to Melbourne Knights to play, ⁓ I think it was called Summer Street, that was the most intimidating ground you could ho off the bus, walking in underneath the big cover, creations there. pumpkin seeds spitting and you know, looking at you as if they wanted to rip you apart and then when you walk, you know, walk through the tunnel and out, they're either side, most intimidating place. ⁓ you know, one of my games there was when a young Mark Baduca was playing with him and ⁓ yeah, I was playing central defender and he he got two goals on me that game. And I'm I'm pretty happy with that 'cause he I think he got four against Liverpool. So I must be a pretty decent player. Yeah, that most intimidating and and same with Sydney United. That was intimidating up there. Marconi had a bit of a fortress there that, you know, kept you on edge when you were a a a visit to that ground. I also remember at Brandon Park we had ⁓ we had a couple of games there back I think it was against Sydney United. We had fourteen thousand at that ground. There's a bit of a marketing guy got involved and for two weeks we played Brisbane Raw and I think it was Sydney United and ⁓ But we got belted both those games. We it was one of those moments, you know, if we could have really switched it on and ⁓ come away with a couple more wins in those games, it could have really boosted boosted the Wolves ⁓ attendances because we got some cracking attendances for those games. See, I I don't think th I said this to I said this to ⁓ Gary Cole that that the the attendances the wolves used to get was solely based on how good you went, right? Yeah. So you won they won or in ninety si what was the first ninety six was it? When they played Perth Glory over here and they won? I think ninety nine. Ninety eight, ninety nine. They won over there and then I remember the next season, those those crowds the next season were were unbelievable. They just went back they went back to back. Yeah, and they they won it again. Yeah. A and and that's what I said to Garrika, 'cause you see you brought up a thing of when he was playing for Heidelberg that they used to get seventeen, twenty thousand for Heidelberg versus South Melbourne. And then they played Wollongong and they get eight hundred people. Yeah, yeah. And and I went, Yeah, because why are you going to travel from Wollengong to watch your team play in Heidelberg? It's the same vice versa. It depends on who you play and and how good you wear. You spent almost a decade with the Wolves, what made Wollongong such a special club? Yeah, so my first ⁓ meeting was with you know, John Danzell as a player, and then from there I got to meet so many different players, ⁓ in in all different grades and variety of levels, variety of positions and I seem to have ⁓ not trodden on too many toes as I've gone along. ⁓ there might be some out there that ⁓ listen to this and go, Hey Lloyd, you remember this? But ⁓ yeah, I haven't on trodden on too many toes and I just love I love people getting better. You know, I love people improving and I I love the game improving. I love to see people doing better than what I ever did, you know, with the opportunities that I had and I was I was pretty fortunate to get, you know, Larry to take a punt on me and say, All right, give him a go here and he saw something he liked, have a go here, have a go here and he he brought me up to speed really quick. Not many coaches these days that do anything like that, you know? Yeah. I'm too scared to do it. But Larry, you know, in in his quirky ways just went, No,

you scored a goal and there was a cracking goal. We'll give him a see what he does here. And ⁓ you know, before you know it, I've I've jumped about four or five rungs ⁓ within, you know, a weekend. And then that gives you that confidence and then you go out and play better the next time and then train harder, step up, then you meet, you know, guys like Plemm, guys like ⁓ Glenn Fontana who are then trying to promote players higher. ⁓ Yes, and my fondest memories are just meeting the people down here and you know, being able to connect with them now as a as an older person in the community. being able to connect with those stories ⁓ as we've gone on our way, you know. All those memories come back with each of those people you bump into and go, ⁓ I remember when we did this or you nutmeg me here and you got that goal. Yeah, it's quality. Great memories. You played a hundred and sixty matches for Wollagong? Did you ever imagine you'd spend that long there? No, at times I look back and go, I regret I had a couple of opportunities to go up to Sydney 'cause I had previous connections with ⁓ Sydney United playing for King Thomas Love. But when I started to weigh it up and, you know, we'd met my my my wife down here and she lived local and converted them into ⁓ you know, football fans and we'd go back to ⁓ Il Nido's in Bow Gaunty after we'd been at the front after a game and we'd have dinner with about four or five other families back there and people. So I was sort of entrenched in here and then I looked at it as well and went, you know, the travel component, do I move up there? So I I'd, you know, started to love the place. Got some work at Filmere Public School. So I was ⁓ you know, I'd take my strip from the year and I'd give it as man of the match to my under, you know, my my year five soccer team that we played PWSA sport with. They would they would go through a brick wall to win the Wolves jersey and shorts and socks of the week. And then I'd have parents come in, you know, on the Monday and Mum would come up and go, Mr. Lloyd, I'm I'm so sorry. I said, What what what's up? She goes, ⁓ I haven't been able to wash your kit, you know, he's had it on all weekend, he slept in it and he just just things like that. I go, you you don't realise the impact you have, you know, with with some of the things you do and and those kids went on to play soccer and enjoy it and make loads of friends and I went job done with that. That was quality, you know? And and you're ingrained in the community. Like the community, ⁓ the Wollagong community, I think a lot of people that that listen to this are probably from Sydney or from wherever. But they don't under I don't think they understand the the com the community of Wollagong as a whole. Like it's pretty hard to leave. There's there's two degrees of separation like like everyone there's everywhere there Like I lived there all my life and I moved up the moved up to Karata in two thousand and eight and I've still got all my family still live there Except for me, my wife and my kid and my my wife's in laws and they all still live at Wollagong and I still call it home to this day. I still go home and my wife goes, Jick, your home is here and I'm like, No, my home is back there. I live here. But when you walk in there y automatically your connections are still valid. You know what I mean? Well and you I can I I still I still drive like I don't I don't like driving, so I let my wife drive and she goes, ⁓ how do we get to Bulling Long and I go, This way, down here, down Bull I Pass. We've got to go down Bullai Pass. So if we don't go down Bullard Pass, I'll be fuming 'cause I like looking out and see seeing the bul bul Bull dogs track there and then you get down the harbour, you get to say, ⁓ there's Winuna Beach. There's this, there's that. It's when you're I reckon you're at the top from the lookout there as you're driving past and you can see right down the coast, you go, ⁓ yeah, we're home. Yeah, exactly right. And I'll be there in December and I'll do the same in December when we we drive down the coast, I'll go, Yep. Yeah, here we are. Yeah, it is a place. Yeah, it is. The NSL has some incredible characters. Who were the toughest opponents you come up against? Mark Viduka. Mark Viduka. Like I said yeah, he got two goals on me and and I walked away and I actually I played really well. But he got two on me, he's just big and he could turn and as soon as he saw goal when he hit it, it was just like a bullet, you know. And any any opportunity he got facing goal, he could put that ball in, you know. So he was he was one of the toughest opponents ⁓ I'd come across defensively. ⁓ attack wise, you'd you'd have to say like Sydney Olympic, Andy Andy Bernard was a was a beast. you'd you'd be hard pressed to get the the best over him. ⁓ you know, the positions I played, I got I was fortunate enough to be able to play anywhere on the park. So I became, you know, that utility player that they could have in the squad. If needed I could jump in here and do a reasonable job for it. So that was good in a way, but it was bad in a way as well, right? Because if you want to progress any higher, you'd have to sort of have that one position and really focus in on it. So while it killed me for moving anywhere higher, it also gave me the opportunity to play loads of games, go to loads of places and be involved in the squad ⁓ a hell of a lot of lot of the time, which was good. Which teammates made the biggest impression on you? I could probably answer this. I love Matt Horsley. Just Matt Yeah. I I think in life everyone has a little s super s super skill or a super set of strengths that they've got. And ⁓ you know, Matthew we used to call him lungs and he could go for the ninety minutes at the same speed that he he took off in in that first minute, you know, and I would hate ⁓ trainer, I hated being against him. I always loved being on his team because I knew that he was relentless.

⁓ so yeah. Matt Horsley stood out for me. There was ⁓ Alex Bandalo when he first came back. I didn't know much about Alex, but when he came back, the silky skills of him. he was he was ⁓ quality player as well. I love Dave Green. Dave Green came back, he was a bit like Matt Horsley. I don't know how he did it through his career, but his standard was just high week in and week out. ⁓ we had a a Scottish guy that came, Danny Craney. Do you remember him? I think Danny rep ⁓ played quite a few games for Celtic back in the day. ⁓ he was he was in the squad for a couple of years and he had a silky left foot and a a knack for goal and he would always, you know, say if I'm gonna bounce that ball into you, I want to touch back. So he was a bit like Scotty Alronshaw, teaching us a few little extra add ons that would help us become, you know, better teammates and things like that. ⁓ Dave Ratcliffe when I first went there, Dave was like player coach and was I mean you see a lot of people back in the day became player coaches, but they were sort of out of it out of their depth playing. Dave that wasn't Dave's case. Dave still had ⁓ that drive and ⁓ the skill to be able to play. I just think after a year and a half or year two years of doing it, I think that coaching side and the playing sort of caught up with him. It was it was too difficult in the end. And then he went into just coaching. But he was ⁓ it was yeah, it was pretty good to be able to play with him for those last two years of his particular career. Scotty Olenshaw was another one that came along. I love loved the silky skills and and learn from him being an Australian player. ⁓ he was he was formidable. I love Brad Hughes in goals. Hughes he was he racked up quite a few appearances ⁓ with the club and was a phenomenal player. ⁓ John Danzo, the only the only thing that cost John Danzo, I think it was Robbie Wheatley from Marconi, it might have been Robbie's hit him in a tackle and Done some major damage to him and then John's career was put on hold for a bit, recovering from injuries. I mean, if he probably had the the modern medicine that they have today, they might have been able to get back bigger and stronger and quicker for him. ⁓ but John was yeah, I got to play with him at ⁓ both I think it was Wollongong Olympic he was at and then we played a bit of amateur league together. But yeah, John was John was a top talent in the area. That ⁓ that nineties Wolves sides were competitive. What do you remember about those seasons? You know, I tr I can't remember the year, but I remember remember a guy named Pat Brodnick? He's that what he we played West Adelaide and we won seven one at Brandon Park and he scored six goals. Huh. Yeah, I think it might be an NSL record or up there. He was ⁓ I think Pat was become very religious and couldn't play on a Sunday. There was some religion that he wasn't able to play from this time to that one. ⁓ might have been seventh day Venice or something like that. So Pat's career sort of folded a bit with with the religion side of it. But he was he was uncanny. He some skill he had was incredible. Very natural athlete and did some amazing things, but wasn't I don't know, he didn't seem dedicated or there was something amiss. But he was he was a player that really ⁓ caught my eye for some of the ⁓ the skill and and natural ability that he had. Yeah. What is there one match that stands out in your memory? Jeez. I always played really well against Marconi for some reason. And there was one match up at their home ground. I'm I had video of it ⁓ 'cause I've I'm I'm maybe Bob Bobby Catlin on ⁓ on Facebook and Bobby was a goalie this particular day and Francis Awaratifi played for them. I think ⁓ Corrika might have been he was a bit ol he's a bit younger. David Seal played for them. There's quite a few good players playing for Marconi, but we always seemed to do well against them. I don't I don't know what it was, but we're up there and I ended up scoring the winner and I was ⁓ Matt Horsey's final pass from inside our half 'cause they'd pushed right up on halfway and we've slipped the offside trap. And it's it's me running at Bobby Catlin from the halfway line and I've just drawn him in and slipped it under him and ran to the bench and you know, it was probably the last five minutes of the game. And ⁓ we'd beaten them one two ⁓ two one, so I was absolutely stoked with that. I have the video somewhere but it's it's hiding at the moment. I sort of want to send it to Bobby and go, Remember this one. Yeah, that's About the MSL. I'll suss it out. Yeah. It's good value and yeah, and because you're playing Marconi too, right? They were the they're always the team that, you know The appearance was they paid the most, they had the best stadium, they had you know, the pitch was immaculate and ⁓ everything was going for them. So, you know, when Wollongong turn up, we're always doing it tough. ⁓ you know, we don't have all the finances, but ⁓ yeah, Marconi games were always cracking games and I and I did quite well in those. Yeah. Looking back now, what are you most proud of from your playing days at Wollinggong? I'm just proud that I I didn't I didn't get a big head about being in that team and when the news came that, you know, Rich you played well last week but the strikers come back, we're gonna start him and we got you fresh on the bench, you know. ⁓ there was there was quite a few times that that occurred because of my ⁓ flexibility in playing a number of positions and I look back on it and I went, you know what, I could have spat the dummy. But I I was proud of myself to go, you know what, it's a team game and the the gaffers in charge of it. And at this moment in time he s perceives that this is going to be the best option. And ⁓ I was able to you know I was able to handle that and and realise the big picture is is the team. It's not just for Richard. It's for the whole team and and what is the best outcome. So I really

backed that and I'll back my coaches with it. ⁓ it weren't you know, if I if I was if it happened constantly, ⁓ I was able to call them in at train and go into their office and have a chat about it, not carry on like a pork chop on the training pitch or anything like that. So I'm pretty proud of that, being able to to handle the news that, you know, sometimes isn't as good as what you want it to be. And I think that is ⁓ it's giving me a really good mindset going into the coaching side of things. And trying to teach players that sometimes those hard stories turn out to be your best ones because they get the best out of ya. So you spoke about being a utility player. This is gotta be a bit self self about yourself here. So I want you I want your truthful answers. Did you have a favourite position? I loved back in the when I first started, we used to have the old sweeper. Yep. Remember the old sweeper? Yep. That was my favourite all time position because I could read the play really, really well. ⁓ you're given a bit of time to to drop off so you had time on the ball. For a big tall player, my ⁓ my touch was pretty good and my pass ⁓ passing range was good. So a sweeper roll was ⁓ ideal for me. And ⁓ I've got a pretty cool story for you that we we had an Irish bloke who came out to play named Derek O'Neill, who I'm still really good friends with. ⁓ I ended up being best man at his Australian wedding to his Irish wife. He came out here and my wife and I my wife became the film director of the wedding at in Sydney, ⁓ and I was his best man at it. But Derek got me over there, you know we played in the summertime, we were we were the first ones to play summer football. So during the off season one year when I was twenty one early on, I decided I wanted to get backpacking out of my system because I'd always wanted to go and travel. I love traveling. So in the off season I went over there and I ended up in Ireland at Derek's house. And Derek goes, Why don't you come down train him with me? I'll play for a team called Atlone Town. So, like any good football, I took my boots with me so I could have a kick around with whoever I bumped into. So I go down to Atlane Town, I'm training with him. And the coach loves me. He goes, One week with him. He goes, I want you to come to our trial game on the weekend, our preseason fixture. I want you to sit on the bench with me. And I went, okay, who are we playing? He goes, Well, we're playing Everton. They've come over to Poland for their pre season tournaments. Everton, Tottenham are playing a series of teams, right? And I'm I'm not joking. So I've got I've gone there's back in nineteen ninety. Everton had just got a caretaker coach named I think it was Colin Harvey. And they just done well at the World Cup Island, and I believe their their skipper was ⁓ in the Everton team. So anyway, I get to this game and I've got my kit and we're warmed up and I'm sitting on the bench, about six thousand people in Atlane Town watching this event. Tony Coddy's out there. Never Southall's in goals. ⁓ they got the cast a thousand. Pat Nevin who's played there. We're gonna cast the thousand. I'm just watching going, no one's gonna believe me back at home that I'm sitting on the bench. I'm kitted outright and I thought I thought he was just putting me on there just for a bit of an experience, right? 'Cause yeah, I'm bonded with this coach. Anyway, there's twenty to go and he goes, Warm up. And I went, Bullshit. He goes, Warm up, going on. Anyway, I went on in that sweeper role. And 'cause I've got good touch and I'll play the ball. I'm helping out Mark Tony Coddy, whose calf muscles are ⁓ as big as a beach ball. And ⁓ I'm knocking this ball around, I'm I'm looking pretty good. I go up for a corner, I get a header on goal, South Hall tips it round the corner. I've had a shot from outside the box, 'cause as a sweeper you have that that room to to roam a bit. I've had a shot, he's pulled off a save. I've had twenty minutes against the Everton players and then I've gone, I'm never going to get this opportunity again. I've taken my Kodak Brownie camera into their shed after the game and I've got ⁓ to take a photo with me and every one of their players. Yeah, right. And then Yeah. And then Derek, my good mate Derek, was best friends with Andy Hinchcliffe, who was their left fullback at the time. So after the game, Derek's in his ear, and you wouldn't believe it, he's got myself and Derek on the Everton bus from Atlone Town back to back to Dublin, where they'll staying. We put our bags in the hotel and we've gone out with them for the night. And this night turned into a 6 a.m. We're walking home at 6 a.m. I didn't pay for a thing. We'd go into a nightclub, it was all roped off. All the Everton players are sitting in there and they're just going, big man, just tell them you're a reserve grader. And you'd be talking to people all night. And it was if you had to put down one of the best nights of my life. It had to be Jerek and I walked home that morning, six A. ⁓ picked up a curry and went, that was gold. Absolute gold. So that all started from being, you know, flexible, playing a getting getting a roll with the coach and playing in my favourite position and loads of touches on the ball, winning headers when I had to. So sweeper sort of central defender was probably the ultimate role, but I did love going up front. Bagged a few goals on it up front as well. The nineties, the nineties. Bring back the nineties. Yeah, bring it back. How would you describe yourself as a player? Very very cautious with losing the ball. Always if there was a pass on, I was pretty quick to to judge it. I'd I'd rather keep the ball than turn it over. ⁓ I'd try and put it into spaces where once again, you know, the experience of playing with some of the the better players in our country, ⁓ you know, if the national system, they'd come back and actually teach that, you know, if I'm being marked here, you can

play the ball there. And I'm I'm a ninety percent chance of holding that up. Whereas when I first started just getting the pass off, I was happy with, you know, I'll pass it in the in the direction of, you know, one of my players. But but being able to play that ball where it is mostly to our advantage, or either going forward or or looking to to put it into a spot where he can attack further, ⁓ I learned that very quickly. So I'd say that would be one of my my favorite things and one of the the better things I can do. reading the play. I could read the play fairly well and take up ⁓ efficient positions pretty quickly. ⁓ I I was pretty good at ⁓ as I slowed down towards the end of my career, it probably wasn't as agile defensively as what I could have been. But ⁓ you know that was that was me just getting older and the sports science back then probably wasn't as ⁓ good as it is these days. You got, you thirty nine year olds still playing the World Cup and still blitzing it. Yeah. Well Qualities do you believe every good defender needed back then? Yeah, I think I think for me in in all positions, I think decision making, you know, decision making, not selling yourself because those attackers that you you you're up against, they were trying to sell your dummies to get you to go one way so they could go the other. So that decision making, being able to read it, I mean that all comes through experience as well. The more you're doing things, the the range of players that you have at training, you know, left footed, right footed, guys at pace, just just learning from those experiences and then taking it into the game and being able to read what you've done at training and then carry that for and learn learn from the game. The game is ⁓ the game is the best place to learn. And ⁓ you know, no matter how good a coach you are, you can't you can't replicate those moments as good as you can in those games. So being able to to read that play is probably the most important. Eventually your time at Wollagong come to an end? Was that a difficult transition going from Woolagong Si Woolong Wolves to MacArthur? Yeah, I I think ⁓ there there's a bit of ⁓ Illawar Illawarra Lions in there as well just before MacArthur. Yeah, right. And ⁓ that transition was tough, right? Because I'd just been playing out of my skin and playing some really good football. And yeah, I I think Nick Theo and I are still good mates and we we chat about it, but yeah, I Nick didn't offer me a contract and then they won it that year and I was sorta I get what he was trying to do, he's trying to clean the place out. ⁓ but I was still playing pretty good football and I sort of put it down to I think there was a bit of miscommunication between me and him back when he was picking those squads and ⁓ I may have taken something to heart that wasn't meant to be to heart. And yeah, ended up missing out on that contract and they won it that year. So I was bit devo not to be involved in that, but fully understanding as well, right? The club wants to get better and and move on and there was younger players coming through as well. I mean Nick had a vision of and and he was he was right in what he's done, you know, like the team that he assembled was was high quality. ⁓ I'd probably an expensive squad, but you know, Morongong was building and and able to do that. So yeah, sort of that transition was tough. But moving to Illawar Lions, I started my coaching, ⁓ Glenn Fontana was coaching there. So I've gone back to where, you know, many years later, back to where I started with Glenn. And then he was trying to build Illawar Lions as another representative team. If you remember it look Mulling on Macedonia was in the national league there for a couple of seasons, they tried to build that. Ill Wild Lions came about and there was a new junior club with it. So Glenn had me playing there and also gave me the under fifteens to coach and ⁓ yeah, really took a shining to that. And we ⁓ we got them through to the grand final and we absolutely blew it. We had this team on toast but couldn't put the ball in the back of the net, which which has led to my my philosophy throughout has been go forward, create and convert. You know, it started back in those early days. We've got to teach people. how to put that in the back of the net because every game, every team gets an opportunity. You know, even even today, the the the team there with Argentina, towards the end there were a couple of opportunities. Simeone had that one onto the corner, you he he hits that low, they're back one all. And our game is our beautiful game is like that. Us Spain can dominate in every aspect. But then there's still that opportunity that pops up. And if you have people on your team that ⁓ rise to that moment and can be clinical and convert, you you're gonna come away with a lot more wins than losses, you know what I mean? In y in your oy Rob Smith said the same. He goes, If you score more goals you're most likely gonna win, aren't you? Yeah, I just ⁓ I'm not blaming anyone for this either, by the way. I'm not saying that I've got it right either, but Just when we started when I started my coaching journey and going through those licenses, there was a lot of ⁓ playing out from the back was, you know, becoming vogue. And so we all learnt how to play out from the back. But that front third, it became more of, you know, in some of the coaches I come across, ⁓ let them be creative. And I'm sort of going, Yeah, that's easy to say, but Bugalugs doesn't know what Bugalugs does. Yeah. And it won't take up a good position to maybe, you know, f find him We've got to teach them the art of finishing. We've got to get repetition into it, you know. We've got to get them Thomas James was a recent ⁓ wolf striker for ⁓ Luke in the national in the national championship last year and the season before when Luke Wilkshire won it and he had Thomas James there and I used to watch Luke would get him at

training and and he he's hitting between, you know, two hundred to three hundred shots at goal in that session before he plays. And then when gets to the ground, you know, he finds himself on the edge of the box and he just hits it. And he's already hit 200 of them. And it goes in the top corner, you know, and I'm going, How does that happen? He goes, Rich, I've just practiced. I've just practiced. And so that yeah, I think there's a in my coaching at the moment, I'm I'm tossing towards going, you know, let's have some specific finishing for the specific positions that we play, even your central defenders, you know, they're always going up for these corners. We're always going up the headers, but how much practice they get in a training? Is it is it just on the day they're gonna make that up? Let's get them in there, let's practice, let's have a dedicated finishing session for everyone. Crossing sessions for, you know, guys who are playing out wide, you know, overlapping fullbacks. How many times they get to to practice that ⁓ cross like Messi did the other day for the England game, you know, like his right foot. So yeah, it sort of swayed my coaching and I think we can do better for our. Players down here. Going back to the Illora Lions, what year was that that you went to Illora Alliance? Yeah, that would have been ⁓ that ninety nine two thousand around there. So you just said you had the youth youth team. Is that the youth team you were coaching? I know the the under fifteen, so under fifteen. Yeah, they'd opened up you know, under thirteen, fourteen, fifteens or sixteens, ⁓ another representative pathway. I suppose right now the the ⁓ South Coast Flame are now you know, that second I'm not saying second in order, I'm just saying there's two representative pathways down there and I think back then Glenn was trying to get ⁓ Illwater Lions up and running as that sort of second second pathway for players. I'm just trying to think if I had I would have had mates playing in those in the s probably seventeen team, eighteen team. Yeah. The fifteen's one, but I c I come across ⁓ I coached the emer ⁓ the the New South Wales Navy team at the emerging socceros this year for the under fifteens and ⁓ there were a couple of kids in the New South Wales country team from the Wollongong area and one of them was ⁓ one of the kids, it was his son from that under fifteen team, and they introduced me to his son and said, Come over here, this is Richard who coached me back in under fifteens at Illinois Lyons. And now you're in the under fifteen's ⁓ country team and introduced me to his son. I went, ⁓ yeah, cool's that. And then the granddad was there who I remember from back in the day, you know. And then we all had a coffee together and just reminisced and yeah, it was pretty pretty special. So now I'll keep an eye out for his young bloke, you know, and see if we can him out on his journey. Yeah, yeah, all all my friends play, like players that I played with as friends played for Illawarra Lions, Woolong Wolves, youth. So I'm I'm yeah, so ninety minety six, ninety seven. Yeah, yeah. There you go. How did foot how did football differ between the NSL and the state league? Well, when I played for MacArthur, we ⁓ we were fortunate enough to have Casey De Bruin as our coach. And Case had coached ⁓ the Bullingog Macedonian team in the National League. Case had played in it. Case I learnt ⁓ a stack from from his way of coaching. ⁓ I would say his midweek training, he was probably one of the first to keep an eye on your loads and what you're doing and a lot of strength stuff in there. And so at MacArthur we ⁓ we finished third two years in a row in the in the old state league and we bottled it. We we were leading for most of the way and we bottled it against some of the the bigger teams. We just lost two games each year and ⁓ He took a b he took a bunch of guys that weren't ⁓ you know, super superstars of of of football and he ⁓ he moulded this team around a few more experienced players with young guys in there and we gave it a red hot shot and and in the end, when you reflect back, there's just a couple of little incidents in games where probably the experience of the other team ⁓ got over the top of us and ⁓ yeah, it was a shame because we went so close. But he he He was a sensational coach. Still is. Yeah, he good he was good at lice arts as well when he when he had lice arts in the Premier League and he was good there. So he he coached up at ⁓ I think he still does up at Westfield Sports High School where a lot of players go through ⁓ their football program ⁓ up there. I know that he's been at a couple of the ⁓ the Joey's tournaments that his son in law Trevor Morgan is the Australian coach of. So Case has been ⁓ on the on the sideline there giving you know, tips and feedback on on how the team's going. It's funny because when we had him he was ⁓ he's a hard man. Like he's he's tough. And then when I saw him coaching school kids, I'm going, ⁓ jeez. He'll rip him to shreds. But then when I got closer and got to see him coaching those kids, I went, Mate, you were never like that with us and the the encouragement, the tone of voice was, you know, different for adults and and the kids he adj he adjusts really well. Yeah. Yeah. What memories stand out from your years at MacArthur? At MacArthur, both years there, the train the training, ⁓ you know, if if you're turning up the training and hating it, it's a long year. We turn up every time and we we could see the purpose of what he had set out for us. ⁓ at times sometimes you didn't like it. ⁓ you know, pliometrics and things like that that are introduced that are different to what other teams are doing. But then when you see your leg strength and then when you're coming up against your opponents and you're finishing the games off strong, you go, Okay, that's that's why we're doing that. You know. So case ⁓ he was punching above ⁓ sorry, he's p punching ahead of

the game all the time, always looking for the the next thing that would would make us better. So I really enjoyed my time at MacArthur there, particularly under under Casey. And then the two years after that, yeah, two years of travel. I know it's not that far to Cambertown, but you're still, you know, three days three nights a week travelling up there. Yeah. And then that that was enough. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I was gonna ask, How how many days were you training? So you were training at three days three days a week. Yeah, we trained three days, yeah, which was, you know, ⁓ that was above normal. I mean down near the IPL I think you train two days a week and one of them is Yeah, it Tuesday Tuesdays, Thursdays and then play Saturday. Yeah. So we'd we'd train that Friday night, then play the Saturday. So it was Thursday, Friday, Saturday, full time yeah, full time at it for those three days. Yeah, right. You you later become player coach at Kemdawarra. What what year was that? So I went from ⁓ jeez. Yeah, I went from I went back to Kember Warren and we had Plemm as the coach. Yeah. So we had Phlem for two years and we went through, won the premiership, didn't make the grand final. I think we won the Burt Bampton the year after. And then Phlem left and then Rob Burkham became the coach. Yeah. And then Rob left halfway through. And then they asked me just to take over to finish the season off. And ⁓ Yeah, we picked up our games, but back to the experience I saw, Ratcliffe player coaching, it it's not a good mix, you know, 'cause you're there with your the players that you get along with, you're now saying, Hey, you're on the bench and you're playing yourself and then as soon as you do one mistake, they're like, ⁓ no, how can he put himself in there? So I I I got through to the end of the year still playing at a high standard, but I went, I won't do that again. Yeah, don't know how I don't know how you could be a player coach because you got you you've got that mateship and then you've got to be that authoritarian and it ruined your fri ruined friendships. Yeah, so I mean it was only for half a season to get us, you know. I think we just we might have just scraped into the finals or we just missed out, but we we did considerably better ⁓ in that second half of the season. So after that, did you always know coaching was gonna be the next chapter? Yeah, it sort of follows with ⁓ Yeah, with with a teaching career as well, you're always, you know, if you could teach grammar and punctuation or t or teaching soccer football. I don't know which one I I'd rather be doing. I have a theory I have a theory. I've talked to I've I've talked to a few coaches and they're all teachers. Like I don't know if that's a that's a that's a thing, but all all of you's were teachers and then you've moved into coaching. So I've got Cindy going, Maybe I should have been a teacher. Yeah. I mean it's y you also get bagged out by it too, right? 'Cause there's a lot of ⁓ former players that haven't gone down the coaching pathway and they're ⁓ bloody teachers. So I I have in my defence have also played at a reasonably high level. So that gives me a little bit more ⁓ street cred, I suppose. ⁓ but your teaching's not the only thing that, you know, you need. You need to be able to I've been fortunate enough to take everyone I've met in my life. I take little bits of good things I see in ⁓ and I mould it into what I'm like, you know what I mean? Like John Fleming for me, he's got a lot of great skills, but the one that I took is the the way man manages, the way he can bring the best out, the way he can connect people, you know. We had Kem LaRoy there, we had a couple of players, Jason Kinchesky was one of our strikers, you know, and I still remember a session there where We're all shooting at goal there at Kem Lawarra and there's the fence and there's the bush behind. And Jason, you know, was was a cocky young bloke, but geezy could finish and his leg strength and he could dribble and take players on. He'd be shooting, right? And they're going over the goal and over the fence, but he won't go get his ball. He'll run back and jump in the line again. Well the players are all getting the shits with it, you know. Go get your ball, you little cheeky bugger. So after a few weeks I've sort of gone, Shit, this isn't good, right? It's going to blow up. So I sort of pulled Pleg aside and said, Pleg, what are we going to do about this? Can you get this cheeky little bugger to gagged his ball over the fence and he goes, Rich, this cheeky little bugger's going to win us the championship? Your job is to go back to the players and say, How can we get that ball back? And keep Jason shooting as many goals as he can, because eventually they're going to get a bit lower and they're going to go in the back of the net. And sure enough, by managing that situation in that way instead of Flem blowing up and, you know, doing it that way, we're able to manage it and then they didn't mind him getting the balls when the next week he scored that trick. You know, they'll queue they're queuing up to get the ball. And sure enough, his goal scoring in there, like we're just mentioning, right? Go forward, create and convert. He put the ball in the back of the net for us and won us won us games. Got us points and won us that minor premiership, you know? So mad management from PHEM is something that I've got in my toolkit a and value added to, you know, in my teaching career, being able to set things up and use the right words to draw out the best in everyone. That's that's what I think it's about, you know. You just said you're taking little bits from people coaches that you've had coach you. Did you model your coaching on anyone you'd played under? Like the whole thing or is it just all little bits? All all little bits, you know, and then getting to know your players that you've got. ⁓ most of my coaching has been in the in the youth space ⁓ for the last sort of

decade, focused more on the young ones, trying to get them r ⁓ first grade ready. ⁓ because the system that I had when I I took over at the Wolves there, I got an opportunity to coach first grade there. It was all about the money. And then we had one year there where I think there was no money. I'm trying to put it together, you know. And ⁓ one of the things I learned from that, even though we ⁓ you know, the first year I coached there, we finished second last, but we were we were last right up to the last game and we were ⁓ what were we? A couple of goals no, no. We were nine points on the club championship behind Central Coast. And the youth the first grade was worth twelve points. Youth grade was worth I'm sorry, the the reserve grade was worth something like seven ⁓ eight points. Yeah, eight points for that, and it was four points for the youth grade. Peter Willis was coaching the youth grade and you know, he's playing central coach who were doing well in the youth. Pete's ⁓ you know, got them up for the wins, so we're eight points behind him on the club championship. And then we dropped ⁓ not dropped, but ⁓ who was it? Chris Price and Stevie Hayes. They ⁓ they said they'd play on the bench for reserve grade in case they needed to come on and try and get the points. Anyway, the reserve grade beat Central Coast, which got us eight points, and we're all back, even Stevens going into first grade the last game of the year. And ⁓ we went one nil up, then they got one all, then we went two one up and they scored at the death two all. We're going, shit, what is it? So, you know, the rule books all come out. The team that has the better goal difference gets the gets the money. And my ⁓ philosophy of go forward, create to convert, ⁓ came through for us. We were plus five more than what they were. So we'd scored five more goals and it kept us in and ⁓ I'm trying to think. Mark Jones Jones was his name. I can't remember his first name. He was coaching ⁓ you know, Central Coast at that time and they got relegated. He went on to coach the Newcastle Jets in the A League. So you know, but but I learnt a lot. I learned a hell of a lot. Not that I set out at the start of the year to be put under that sort of pressure, but I wouldn't swap it because ⁓ it's moulded me into a a better person and it enhanced my skills tenfold going through that particular experience. What Coaching philosophies have stayed with you throughout your career. ⁓ Make sure we're not scared to go forward. Make sure we have ⁓ you know, covering vital positions defensively. But be proactive and be be positive. Always be on the front foot. It's moulded and moulded as I've gone along. You know, first of all, you'd probably say your defensive mindset, ⁓ a bit like our Australian team at the ⁓ the World Cup this year, I think. Yeah, you have to get that right, but you also can't just sit there and defend the whole way. You know, you're gonna get caught out and you're gonna made be made to look

silly. you need to be able to defend, but also you gotta have something going forward. We've got to get into those positions where we can we can have ⁓ those opportunities a goal that present people confident enough to put it away. So yeah, my confident my philosophy's built as I've gone through the through the years and ⁓ obviously your confidence to be able to to teach ⁓ players to be a bit more proactive and forward thinking. ⁓ that comes with being experienced enough to handle that hardship I had with the Wolves of losing games and and being you know, at that point of relegation and be able to save and go right now I know Yeah, sort of kick myself not staying in that first grade space because I wouldn't be able to implement those things I learned in there. But the youth space was ⁓ you know, the twenties with the Wolves implementing having three coaches there on match day and right, giving the defensive one coach, giving the midfielders to another. I take the strikers. So pre game we're really loading up on specific things for those guys to take out into the game that half time we get in there and go, Right, go with the coaches. Right. How can we make the defensive line better? What can we do, you know, attack wise? And that started to build in that youth space. It'd be interesting to take it into to the first grade space to have everyone more switched on for that game day experience. It go back to the youth. How important is developing people rather than simply developing football? That's huge. Huge. Because those people are going to be in those situations and you want to have developed, you know, those thick skinned people that can handle those ⁓ adverse ⁓ adverse moments that crop up because it's not all about winning, you know, you're gonna most times you're gonna be under the pump. How do you handle it? So developing the person is just as important as developing their football. football skills and then if you get both of those to mould and and football's you know football's practice for life when you go to that game all those things that come at you they're gonna come in a different form in your life and you're gonna be able to handle this and that's straight at you because you've been able to do it out on a pitch under pressure, people watching you. Yeah, so big tongue, big Tom person. ⁓ No no, the person, developing the person is yeah, just as important. How did the opportunity arise to be to come back to the Wolves as a coach? As a coach. So ⁓ yeah, we had an ⁓ a few others ⁓ step into play. There was ⁓ they needed a technical director that was part of the football New South Wales criteria to be able to have a a youth licence. So type ⁓ their teams under thirteens through to sixteens, I think it was back in the day. You had to have a technical director with it. And I believe their technical director, I I forget who I took over from, but could not do it anymore. And you know, I'm a bit of a sucker for for helping the wolves out because

of everything I've got out of it. ⁓ you know, the skills, the people I've met, I have have a f my hearts with the club. So I didn't want them to have no one there. So I went and did that role and then trying to get this is when ⁓ South Coast Flame was starting up as well. ⁓ so there was a bit of competition there and I I sort of look back and go, I wonder if the powers to be in our in our world were trying to ⁓ you know, get get rid of the wolves ⁓ and have this new club come through and and rise up to be ⁓ make a more connected community. I don't know if that was ⁓ something people thought about. But everything was sort of against us, hard to get coaches, but we we managed to to get through and stay in there. So after two years we got it back to a re reasonable ⁓ position and then I I believe Neil Mann come in and he was he was the right man for the job, ⁓ with all his experiences. He then took it to another level, then another former wolf, Jake Timpano, came in and, you know, we had that philosophy of it's not about it's not about Richard, it's about these kids. So Yeah. When I went in there it was it's always been about the kids. How can we make it better for these kids to perhaps one day be able to do what Luke Wilkeshi's done, to do what Millet Stychovsky's done, or my favourite left fullback, Scott Chipperfield, you know? How can we make it so they have that opportunity? Unfortunately, you know, we haven't had anyone since those guys going through. ⁓ but we've got to get it back to ⁓ we've got to have it in ⁓ We've had the whole kitten caboodle there so those kids can come through and aspire to be like those socceros that we've had. So yeah, ⁓ my start with the Wolves was as a T D. Went back because, you know, I got let out of the club and I wanted to give something back. Was there emotions walking back into the club? You know what? Like when when I was ⁓ unceres ceremoniously ⁓ sacked after after a couple of rounds the next season after that difficult one, once again it was like it it's not about me. You know, it's not about me. If I want to sook about that, go down, sit in the corner at the pub, get a beer and just whinge, you know what mean? ⁓ my my one is all about how can we make it better for the kids and And along the way through that learning experience of trying to help the parents understand what we're trying to do and what they're trying to do, all those experiences, I'm I'm actually learning as well. So it was a great learning experience for me. ⁓ loads of you know, those those kids back then are now young men, they still walk up and shake your hand and go, Thanks for doing this. I still remember this and that. So you go, All right, made slight impact there, a positive one. So I I always look for those ⁓ Yeah, I tell the coaches that I mentor, I go, Look, there's gonna be heaps of little hidden trophies that you win and you and maybe your best mate or maybe your mum and dad see you in it. You cherish those, right? 'Cause people

aren't always gonna pat you on the back and notice them. But those little trophies you win where, you know, one kid's gone on and become, you know, a CEO of the business because you taught him to be more disciplined back here. Yeah. There there's little hidden trophies and you go, ⁓ that's awesome. Love it. What were the biggest challenges coaching in the NPL? ⁓ it's still still the biggest one for the wolves is facilities. Yeah. You know, that that don't have a home ground. And yeah, their club's song, whilst it's unique and brings a laugh, ⁓ you know, we train under one headlight. We do. We train at a different ground each night. We train under one car headlight. That's that's one of the lines in their their victory song, you know, and it it's sad that it hasn't changed because There are so many young players that are coming through and we we haven't been able to secure a venue for, you know, arguably one of our region's best sporting clubs in terms of, you know, that moment we won four three in a grand final. ⁓ there's no ground for that that club. It's it's sad. And we we need to try and work on that. So that that's all from So I know When Brandon Park was there, right? The Wolves didn't own it, the council owned it and they sold it to the universe. So they got rid of that. Now the Wolves do they they don't play out of Win Stadium now, do they? They play out of Wollenbong United's group, don't they? Yeah, because win stadium costs them a fortune. Yeah, yeah. So it's stran it's strange that they can't the I think that's a lot of clubs around the NPL area area teams, like it's over here as well. Don't have a home base. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's strange to me that it that he I think you're f you're fighting you're fighting against ⁓ other codes as well, right? Yeah. The Dragons has got a fifty seven million dollar center of excellence. Yeah. Just you know, in the university campus just up from where Grand A Park was, yeah. Right. And I'm sitting there going, I know, there's two and a half thousand players of the game and the Dragons get that and there's twenty five thirty thousand players for football. And they've got Ian McClellan Park, which is has to be shared. And I'm just going, I don't get it, you know, and they're striving for excellence. You get to go to play in a World Cup, men and women, ⁓ like a proper World Cup. You know, the other codes you get to go what? You know, Nathan Cleary's got eight caps for his country, his girlfriend Mary's got seventy. Yeah. You know, there's got to be some equity in the funding. And I believe those other two codes have ⁓ you know got people in important places that that helped make decisions on that funding. But it is sad that we're in Wollongong, you know, I'm I'm I wanna go and meet the politicians and get answers. That's that's my next goal. It's it's not ⁓ trust me, it's not only a Wollongong thing either. It's ⁓ it's a it's a ⁓ it's a whole Australia wide football thing that that they're gonna mate They're gonna make I think making the thirty two of the World Cup got their thing up to ten million dollars. ⁓ it'll be interesting to see how much of that ten million dollars goes back into football. You know what I mean? But there's gotta be there's gotta be government funding in it as well, you know, like that center of excellence down there, Bruce Gordon's throwing money into it 'cause he loves rugby league and that's cool. Yeah. And he's got the money. But the government's throwing money into it as well. The government's throwing money. And then the council's taking the money from other football projects and throwing in their bit. All for you know team coming last. Team coming last. They're going, This doesn't make sense. In a you know, in a competition where they don't bloody play twice or ⁓ Yeah. I mean the head injuries that are going to come from it, you know, just doesn't make sense to me. It's ⁓ it's ⁓ it's the same it's the same over here, except over here they've got the NPL teams over here have got strong ethnic backed NPL teams. That like they like you got Perth, Azuri, you got Bayswater City who play Sydney F C tomorrow n is it ⁓ tomorrow night in their fa in the Football Australia Cup. They play Sydney F C and Dev Dev they The NPL over here this weekend said Bayswater City you've got to buy. You don't have to play. We want you to pull out your best team to play Sydney FC on Tuesday and they're selling tickets like it's going out of fashion. ⁓ there you go. It's quality. Yeah. Yeah. Selling VIP tickets to sit in the bar, sit on the balcony and everything. Like got stuff for the kids to go go there, everything. It's ridiculous. Is it difficult as a coach to separate results from the long term development of players? In the youth space, I think it's really important to set your teams up so, you know, you're not going to be run through over and over again because there is that pressure on the kids of, you know, going to school and things like that with their mates, absolutely ribbing them for for floggings and things like that. So you don't wanna set them up for for super failure like that, but you wanna set ⁓ up for challenges. I I like every team that I've coached. We want to set ⁓ up to be able to take the challenges that come up. Obviously you get some teams that are are well versed in in their style of play and you try and put a a spanner in those works. and try and teach as long as as long as there's learning moments throughout that game that those players can take away. But ⁓ results in those use spaces aren't the ⁓ the be all and end all. I've ⁓ in my coaching I've started to use some strategies. ⁓ I've got him involved with football New South Wales and there's a a really good technical director there named Phil Mile. And ⁓ I've been bouncing with him recently and and he gives a lot of strategies on, you know, in this game, let's focus on this principle. So we give this principle the lead role throughout the week leading

into the game. We're really going to focus on how well you do this. They're going to do a hundred other things in that game. The focus is on this and we want to see how many times we can do it, how positive we can be by doing this action. And funnily enough, when we ⁓ get this action being done over and over again throughout the game, and we do that more often than what we've ever done, it's funny how the results end up in our favor. And then we we connect the result to the positiveness of that action throughout the game. And then on the the flip side of it, we go, hey. We didn't do this very often and look, we're down one nil. So maybe next game we need to refocus. ⁓ everyone understand what we're looking for here. ⁓ no I don't. All right, so in training, let's show them Yeah. What you're working on. What we're working on. You know, making sure you under ⁓ Rich, now I understand it. I I thought it was this. ⁓ all right, now let's keep a tally the next week. ⁓ look at that. ⁓ we won two one. Funny. Let's focus on that. All right. So it's playing Yeah, not playing mind games, it's like focusing on the things you want to get better at. And funnily enough, if you as a coach can get those things right, the key things we're looking for, then the results seem to come more often than not. So what I'm taking from you is you enjoy the technical director part of of football. Did you enjoy that role do you enjoy that role more than being a coach? I enjoy ⁓ like I've I've got back in and coached one of the teams at the emerging soccer roos and I love tournament football. I love the tournament side, you've got a window of this long, you've got preparation, you've got these things you can do, then you've got your match day, then you've got the ⁓ you know, you've got to be on your toes, watching what the opposition's doing, you've got to have a team beside you, let's look for this, let's do that, you've got to trust these guys, you can't do everything yourself. And you've got to have those guys next to you that can ⁓ can you do this? Yeah, I'll take this part of it. I'll get this done. And just bringing that all in, that tournament side of it, I absolutely love it. And I've done that a couple of times with, you know, the under fifteen space for both ⁓ football New South Wales and for the ⁓ regional country team. I just went to Bathurst with ⁓ with a tournament up there. So I love that coaching side of it, the technical director side of it. I love ⁓ I love helping the coaches. 'Cause we got some awesome coaches out there that are far more advanced than what I was at their age. And ⁓ there's two in particular, you might ⁓ you might know Adrian Alston, Junior and Senior. yeah. So junior Adrian Olston, his ⁓ sons Xander and Sam Alston, ⁓ they're t they're twins just in their early twenties. And they coach up at the South Coast Flame, they've got the under fourteens team up there. And these ⁓ these two boys take their coach and roll serious and they just do an unbelievably good job ⁓ drawing out the best of these sixteen young men that they're in being put in charge of and ⁓ they're developing the person, like each of those kids, young men in that team, they'll walk up, shake your hand, how you going in general, they want to know how things are panning out. ⁓ but ⁓ on the football pitch they've just got to working as a unit and they're they're sort of punching above their weight. It's it's magic to see. So the technical director side of things, I love being able to guide and mentor those coaches because they've got a lot going from not just those two, but there's they're they're just examples of what's out there. I'm trying to get naughty on you, but I can't get hold of him. He's pretty hard to get hold of. Yeah, I I I'll chat to him for you. Yeah, I try trying to get my uncle to go, ⁓ he goes, I thinking the other ⁓ and I ⁓ yeah, thanks mate. I'm trying to get hold of him. I can't get hold of him. Well ⁓ so for people that don't know, because I don't really know, what does a technical director actually do behind the scenes? So behind the scenes, like we to start with, I think technical directors when they first came in, it was you have to play my philosophy. This is how we're gonna do it and it was all centered around the technical director. when the technical director left or got sacked and the club start fresh again and you never had any continuity. So I believe in what I've seen, the club needs to come up with the philosophy that they would like running throughout their club. Yeah. And then the technical director of the juniors goes, Right, this is what we're aiming for. Here are some principles that will help guide us. along to playing like this. And that not being I d I don't think the coaches would appreciate me coming and saying every session, this is what you will do, and me being that ⁓ authoritative figure. We want to say this is where we want to get to. These are the principles that we believe the club believes will get us there. Coaches, show us your magic and and bring this to life with this wonderful team that you've been given. Bring it to life so that we're there on this ⁓ pathway to playing like this. So as I've gone on longer and longer, it's the it's the coaches. I'm the ⁓ I'm the coach of the coaches. That's what I would put it down to as a as the technical director. I've also some of the work I'm doing with football New South Wales, I'm going around to a few clubs doing ⁓ assessments on their programs. And so in that space I've sort of taken on a similar role being ⁓ that that T D for the T D. So the technical director of the club, I can be his bouncer. I go, Right, what can you do to bring the best out in these coaches and and really boost your program to playing the way that your club says it wants to play? So I've stepped into that role and I enjoy that. I enjoy trying to help out. You're sort of behind the scenes a little bit more. Yeah. But ⁓ you know, the players, you

interact with the players too, so you watch a lot of games and you I've always always been a big believer of bring out positive things that these players are doing. It's really easy to to pick the ⁓ the things that aren't going wrong ⁓ aren't going right. Easy to pick them. Anyone can do that. But you look for those things that are going right and you go, let's keep doing this, keep doing this. So being positive is is massive. What's the what are the biggest mistakes clubs are making when developing young players? So they've got to get there. ⁓ So I'll answer it by telling you a little story about what I've done the last couple of weeks. I've I've got to go and coach the Metro ⁓ sorry, the T S P country kids. And the country kids are from Walga, Albury, Bathurst, Orange, down to Marimbla, Nowra, and they've included the the Wollongong kids, right? 'Cause Wollongong was a separate area. our kids never really got to look into those metro teams that they had up there. So we've got this big country area. And the more we can put into these kids, some of them have played thirty games at a really high level in their under fift up until they're under fifteen age now. The kids in Sydney have maybe have played hundred and fifty, hundred and sixty MPL games. And what I'm finding is Some of the kids have played 160 games and some of the kids have played twenty games. There's not too much difference in their skill and the way they play. So I'm going, these are the kids that I want to coach. Yeah. Because they haven't had all those games put into imagine what they could be like. So it's really opened my eyes to what's out there and trying to give the kids as many high intensity, high class games as possible. to enhance their skills and obviously go back to training and go, right, this is something you could do to to value add to your game, show ⁓ put ⁓ into situations to develop it, then give ⁓ more games to go and practice it. You know, we we developed something down here in ⁓ in Wollongong that's stopped now, but when I was ⁓ the T D at South Coast Flame, we introduced bounce games and every second week for training, two of the age groups would play each other. And to start with people going, That's a bad idea, the wolves are in MPL one, we're in MPL two, we're gonna get flogged and said, Don't worry about it. We're gonna do it all year. And if we don't improve throughout the year, then there's something wrong with that. And then what it did was it brought the actual kids together. So the under thirteens would play each other and we'd go out and referee and we'd we'd give the the game some perimeters, like when you score. You start down the other end, you've got a transition. So we used it as a conditioning game as well. As time went on, I'd get the the coaches from both teams to come out and coach on the run. There's a little tip, your fullback's not in good position, just guide him where he could be. Not overcoach, but just give tips on the run in this game situation. The kids have played each other, our teams first up, we're coping a bit of a touch up. They're getting beaten left, right and centre. But after the game they'd all get together in the middle, go to the crowd, wave to their mums and dads, thanks for watching us. And as time went on, the parents would be there encouraging both teams, clapping good things that went on with the flame, clapping good things that went on with the wolves. The scores were getting closer to see people being exposed to that MPL1 level. And then a few games, not the results for everything, but ⁓ they are a little indicator of how things are panning out. Flame won a few games and the Wolves kids went back to training and worked harder to camp it up. And then all of a sudden, in our region, our kids are getting better and better through game through games, quality games, and the coaching, you know, picking up moments that they can improve on. And that went on for about year and a half. And then you know, I left my role as a T D and it's sort of all drifted Drifted back to not being connected together, which was sad. You know, because if you kept that going, there could be some unbelievable outcomes at the end. But all game related. Is is youth football in Australia heading in the right direction? You know, I'm questioning I'm questioning the money side of it. I look and go, when my kids went through, I didn't have to pay a hell of a lot. I mean, if they went to like a holiday clinic or something special like that. You didn't mind paying a bit of extra money 'cause, you know, there's gonna be a superstar there or or something like that. But now everyone's jumping on the bandwagon, you know, creating their own academies, ⁓ charging parents a fortune. Parents have got three jobs just trying to pay for their kids to go to this and that and I just look and go, Man, we've got to rain this back. In insane in in you're talking about that there. The my son's seven. He turned seven in August. So he started playing football this year for Calamunda. And we paid three hundred and fifty dollars and he got a pair of short we had to pay for them shorts and socks. And he got a trainer shirt for a six year old. Well that's y you put a zero on the end of that? For MPL is is is is we I I ⁓ I had I had I I messaged a team over here called Queen's Park and theirs was fourteen hundred dollars and they're not even an NPL team. They're a they're ⁓ they're amateur club and it was fourteen hundred dollars. No he's five. I don't even know if he's I don't even know if he's gonna like the game. Yeah, that's right. I get ⁓ Yeah, I get that you've got a the clubs have to pay some insurances and I get gear and that I've got no drama with ⁓ having to pay a small fee for stuff like that. But the rest of it, my goodness, it's just But where's it going? Like there's no there's no if you've got 30 say you're an MPL team and you've got fourteen kids playing under sixes, under seven ⁓ under eights,

under nines, under tens, under whatever. Where's that's fourteen hundred dollars a kid? So where's that? Fourteen thousand dollars go. There should be there should be some covering licensed coaches. Yeah. Should should be, 'cause ⁓ you know, the coach I I've done it before with my kids and I don't want to get paid for that. But then when you get into these other ⁓ sort of higher MPL stuff, y you do have to have a coach there that it's it's hard having a dad there, you know, who's They like they've got they've got coaches. They've got coaches that have got their their Yeah. I I don't know what license they've got. I just think the clubs these days, the sponsorship they used to get and things like that, isn't there? No. I mean it should it should be coming from the top down. Like, you know, your NRL and your AFL, they they have money to burn for you know, they're funding it from the top down. We're funding it from the bottom up. Bottom up, yeah. Yeah. It's gotta be it's gotta be a better system. So we'll move on to Australian football discussion. Having experienced football from the NSL through to today's NPL era, how has the game evolved? Yeah, I I just look at the socceros and I was fortunate enough to go over to Brazil to watch them over there. And ⁓ you know, I was at the ground where Timmy s Timmy Cale scored arguably the goal. I can't believe they didn't give that to him, you know, one minute We're we're all up against the Dutch and we're all over ⁓ We're playing really well. And then, you know, I just said good teams just get one moment and they put it away, we're one nil down. And I'm sitting there going, How can this be? And then one minute later, Timmy's banged that in and, you know, the cups of beer are flying everywhere where we're happy as so you see that awesome progress. ⁓ and then you see, you know, some periods where We're struggling and looks like we're not gonna qualify for the World Cup. Arnie has sort of reached the end of his probably his mojo, if you know what I mean, and and then he's a smart operator and gone, you know what, I've milked I've milked my ability out to so many years and I've coached to here. I I don't think I can keep going, you know. And then Popovich stepped in and his ⁓ methodical way of, you know, being probably more defensive than not has, you know, won us one nil game against Japan and We've qualified. ⁓ it's great to see Nastori, Christian, and Touray. I just wish he'd played them all at the same time. That would have been interesting. You know. But then again, I'm not I'm not in the in the hot seat either, right? Easy, easy to make a call from way back here. But yeah, I would have loved to have seen that. My my thoughts are that we're in a good space with ⁓ some creative players, you know, and some people that bang things away and the story with his pace, you know, give him half a yard and he's at that. ⁓ the young defenders that came through, ⁓ Harrington on there going, We've never had that, you know, we're now an eighteen year old. He's he's he's he's set for superstar to that kid. He's ⁓ Barcelona want him, man United want him, they all want him and it's like he's eighteen. It's like And then they you know you got Baych ⁓ sorry ⁓ Beach. I'm looking at him I was w I watched him all year at at ⁓ you know, Melbourne City and there was good things in there, but maybe I didn't watch him enough 'cause maybe there was a l lot of good stuff that I I missed, you know, but he he came out of his shell and took the opportunity. So on a I think there's a lot of positives there, you know, a lot of positives. I think I think that coming up Asian Cup in January will be a breakout tournament for that team. For that Australian team. That that will be a hundred times better for the World Cup. Yeah. Moving into the next international rounds, which are well every every three months coming from up from August will be every three months. Yeah. That Asian Cup tournament in January. I think we'll I think we'll see an Australian team that will hopefully get to the final. Hopefully. Yeah, yeah. What if we improved? Not not worry about just having to defend for ninety minutes. I think defended many. Yeah, I think he had the I think the pre I think when you've got that many players coming out talk ex players coming out talking about it, I think it'll be like Thomas Tuchel. Tuchel changed that that third place game against France. He just went go out and just show me what he's can do attack wise. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. And I think that's what Popel will do. I think Pope will bring in he'll play the three up front together, have Touray as his ⁓ Tar striker, and you have the two running off him and you got Geordie Boss will play to the right instead of the left and and and vice versa. He's got an injury butt hasn't he? Yeah, he I think he's only gonna be out for like three months, I think. So I think he's yeah, I think he's I think three three to four months. So that should get into January. ⁓ December, January. Yeah. We'll say. It's better yeah, better than what we thought. What have we improved as a football nation? I can see our decision making. I'm seeing it because ⁓ I I got to watch the most recent sort of ⁓ trial for our under twenties before they went away. ⁓ I I see the decision making, I see finishing, some quality finishing occurring with those younger age groups. ⁓ I just want that to happen more often. You see Mark Yeah, Mark Milligan coming into to Newcastle and his approach to coaching and giving those young guys all the ammunition that they need to go out and play a quality style of football. ⁓ I I love that. Just need to have a few more coaches and I'm sure there are coming through, particularly ex players, 'cause you know, if you get the right ex player who's got that skill set with him. They can bring out the best in ⁓ in in the young kids that we have coming through. I just find that we might lose a lot of players because there aren't

those opportunities to progress like that because there's too many older players there, you know, getting their last paydays and things like that. Yeah. There's also no no not enough teams. There needs to be more teams. You need to have more teams to have that opportunity. But that's another story for another day. Yeah. Where do you think Austr where do you think Australia still falls behind? I just think it's that front third. That front third play, just the combinations that they can can have. And we need we need to I think it it's all of us, starting, you know, with our coaches and whatnot, focus on those key principles of how to attack and the opportunities, the one twos I saw saw of Spain, you know, in the in their games they play, how many times they knock like a a first time ball that's like a ball's rocketed into them and he knows his partner's just to the left and it's like first time round the corner straight to him then he runs and it's effectively, you know, a ⁓ a long one two and he's broken that defensive line, you know. I think we're gonna get to a point where we can do things like that. We we go backwards very well. And our first option is always or ninety percent of the time we go back and we go lost them all. But we haven't moved the opposition around either. Yeah. You know, we haven't we haven't created any two V ones or opportunities to exploit them. So I think facing forward is key. If you could change one thing about Australian football tomorrow, what would it be? I would love some funding for all those wonderful clubs and those people out there that are trying to do their best with you know, average facilities. If I'd a magic wand, I'd get elbow in a headlock. I know you love your south. You had that Australian soccer rooze jacket on ⁓ jersey on, and you had that scarf around your neck. That does more for our country than any other sport. It's like what they what what they were saying. What everyone's saying now, all these politicians coming out from the World Cup, ⁓ we're doing this, ⁓ look at this, look at this, but no one wants to put any money into the game. No. We need we need some people getting in there and shaking up the ⁓ political system. I think we should c ⁓ create a political party called the football party. It's like it's like FIFA coming out and said Australia need Australian national team need a home of football. they're not gonna they're not gonna make the like they come out they said they need they need eleven pitches. It's like Mark Mark Bosich coming out on SEN and went, Why do we need eleven pitches for? Like, how about we just send off a place that we can do they had a fan of Park Lee for crying out loud. Park Lee used it was is that still around? Yeah, it it's it's got one, two, three it's it's got five pitches and it's built obviously there's housing all around it now, right? So it's really ⁓ intense residential area. So they they need somewhere where they're a little bit further out in the country,

I think. But it's still a awesome facility. Awesome. Yeah. Like you just need need the government just to go here, do this and and get it set up. You spent so much of your life associated with the Wolves. What does that club mean to you? The Wolves ⁓ gave me the opportunity to play favourite game. It gave me the opportunity to meet many, many friends and make many friends. ⁓ I'm still yeah, it still blows me away the number of people I can ⁓ you know, go to and ask questions of if this is going on or that's going on, ⁓ or assistance I might need in my life. There's there's always someone there that I can bounce him with and and that's all come about through playing my game, my favourite game with ⁓ the Wollen Gold Wolves. And being part of it, I just want the kids to have the same opportunity as what I had. And that's why I've sort of stuck around trying to help in any way I've been able to. Why has Wollongong consistently produced so many quality footballs? You know, part we were saying early on about the facilities and things like that. Sometimes you know, ⁓ greatness is born out of ⁓ tough times and and necessities. Maybe maybe there's a there's a good part of it, not having the most beautiful facility to use, but at the moment we don't have a facility, so We need something, as ugly as it c ⁓ might be, you know, that that could help develop 'cause some of those high quality players have come from, you know, pretty humble beginnings and ⁓ have done things tough which has helped hone that's those skills, you know, like so I'm saying before, like all those kids that get things paid for them, are we are we setting them up for success sometimes or are we setting them up for for failure 'cause everything's sort of given to ⁓ on a platter? And sometimes the tough tough love and the the tough journey produces some outstanding, you know, outstanding results. Yeah, I remember I remember growing up we played we played 'cause I played for Winuna in juniors and we played we had a pretty good team, but we always played against Albion Park. And Albion Park was the best like it was us two, us and Albion Park, all the way through, like s sixteens, seventeen, eighteens. And that was Luke Lushi's brother played in the team that I played against. Yeah. And it was just like I just remember growing up like we never had we had Ocean Park. We trained at we trained at Ocean Park. That was an old old old dump like tip. And we used to used to get the thing set up, the nets hit the hit the hit the pole in the green to set the nets up, you hit a car roof tink. And it was like, ⁓ okay. That's fine. Yeah, and that is. But growing up, you're right, growing up. in that area. Like we never had the best things of everything, but we always had we always had something. Yeah. It's it's at the moment they got nothing. They got nothing which is ⁓ is not good. When you look back on your career, what are you most proudest of? Yeah, I'm I'm proud of sticking through the the the hard times. ⁓ the hard times have forged many quality skills that I have and I'm just glad that I've been able to be a resilient person and ⁓ I'm able to Help others out. I love I love being able to help others and ⁓ and see their careers blossom, whether it's in football or or any ⁓ you know, job that they may take on or any anything they do in life. I love helping people out and being even a small part of it. Just seeing ⁓ the success people have. I love I love people having success and being able to watch that or being a little part of its quality. Is there anything you would have done differently? Yeah, I I asked that c I have that question in my mind. That Everton story. I actually went that Everton story, I actually got the coach's phone number, right? And ⁓ got told I said, Is there any chance to come and he claimed the address? I could come to Belfield Road and where did I go? I went backpacking for the two months. And I still turned up there 'cause there was a goalkeeper named Jason Kitten, who was Neville Southall's second keeper to him. He was an Australian kid from ⁓ Queensland. I turned up to their training facility at Everton and Belfield Road, I think it was called. I turned up and I went into the meal hall and I walked in and this is not a word of a lie. They went, the Aussie's here 'cause I spent the whole time on the bus talking to them. I went out with them for that night and they still remembered me and I went, if I'd turned up two months earlier what could have happened. But I don't regret it. Don't regret it. Don't regret it at all. I was gonna say when I where that question I was looking at that question, I went, I think she brings up everything. Yeah. That was one of those things, you know, like years, decade later, Timmy Cale goes there, you know, as the the first sort of Aussie to be part of it. ⁓ I'm not saying that I would have done that, but geez, it would have been nice to have sort of gone back there after that experience of playing there for tw playing against them for twenty minutes. Yeah. ⁓ I didn't didn't look out of place for twenty I mean it was only twenty minutes, but yeah, I didn't look out of place and ⁓ I didn't get any goals on us and and and we attacked and I went, That'll do me. See, there's a story my nan used to tell me about Pete when he was playing and he played against he played against Bobby Charles. When Bobby Childman came up and and and Bobby Charles said to him, This will this I I I don't know if it's true, but my nan never lied, so I'm going gold for she said. Bobby Charles said to him, Bring your boots over to London and mi my uncle never did. And I'm there's a regret and I'd be going, ⁓ that's a regret I could have looked back on in my life. Yeah. Taking my boots to London and went over there and seen what he said. I had another I was just thinking then another experience when I was twelve that that I fell in love with the game because of this. ⁓ when I was twelve my dad worked at a a TAFE and

his boss knew that I loved football. And so in the Sunday t in the in the telegraph each day there was a coupon for people to enter to to try and win a ticket to the Johnny Warren Soccer camp. Anyway, God love him, my dad's boss had cut out twenty of them for the month. and sent ⁓ to my house and I rel religiously filled them all in. Anyway, I ended up winning one of the spots at the Johnny Warren soccer camp. And so I turned up to this camp in Fairfield and, you know, people paid to go to it. We didn't have much money, so it was pretty cool to go there. And Ron Corrie, ⁓ the guy who took over from Peter Acopolis, Ron Corrie was the ⁓ was the coach of this team that I was in. Anyway, I had a rip roaring time, you know, I hadn't paid for it. I was fortunate enough to win it and I was gonna make every every moment there special, you know. So I I worked like a champion for a week. And I didn't know anything else was involved in it. But anyway, I'd get a phone call, my dad does, probably two months later, going, Your son's been selected from everyone at the camp to go to the Pele soccer camp in America. Yeah, right. Gone, my dad's got off the phone and said, Johnny Warren wants to talk to you. And so Johnny Warren was like the hero of the time for Australian football. So I get on the phone and Johnny goes, Just wanna ask you, would you like to go to America in July? 'Cause I've got a ticket for you to go to the Pele soccer camp. Would you like to go? And I just said, ⁓ can you hold on a minute, Mr. Warren? I want to ask my mum and dad. So I asked Mum and Dad and they said Yeah, we're happy for you to go. So anyway, I said, Yeah, I'd love to go. So anyway, ⁓ Ray Richards and Peter Mullens took myself and ⁓ a lad from Newcastle all the way over to New York and we got to go to the Pele soccer camp for one whole week and get taught by the great one and I remember my dad saying, There's gonna be photos. When you get a photo with him, you stand next to him and sure enough he came out for the photos and I've grabbed onto him and wouldn't let him Yeah, we got photos of me, Jason Eyre, the the young bloke from Newcastle, who I'm still good friends with. ⁓ yeah, twelve years of age, we got to fly over there and spend a week with Pelle, and then on the way back we stopped in ⁓ Los Angeles and got to go to Disneyland and all that, all paid for by the great Johnny Warren in ⁓ two weeks and I just w fell in love with the game, you know? That was that was pretty special. What a story. Not very many people get to say they went to a Pelo training camp from Australia. So I talked to Jamie Warren a bit down at the Jambaroo pub because ⁓ he he got to go as one of the first recipients of it, being Johnny's ⁓ nephew and whatnot. And then he got onto I think Jamie played in Flamingo, tried out with ⁓ a couple of Brazilian teams because Johnny was involved in South American football there for a bit. Yeah. Paul Ocon was ⁓ one that won that trip too. Yeah, right. Yeah. But Johnny Warren, yeah, he was a good man for Australian football. He was trying to do things. Yeah. Yeah. And p pity he didn't get to see two thousand and six. No. It would have been good if he was around. What advice w I've only got a few more questions and I'll let you go. What advice would you give your seventeen year old self moving from Sydney to Wallagong? Don't don't be scared to play football. Don't be scared to meet people. It's a wonderful place. Perhaps buy a surfboard and learn to surf. I tried it at an older age. Got a big Malibu. Went out on a Christmas day and the surf was like absolutely pumping. And myself, remember John Kranovik? Yeah. John Krajovic, yeah, I'm good friends with him. We both bought surfboards and went out at an older age and we got smashed to pieces. So I wish I did that much earlier on. So seventeen year old learned how to surf. So you can enjoy this place even more. Mate, I I I was I was born there and I still can't surf, so no Yeah, I think it's a younger younger age thing, you would've been right. No, I know, I Trust me, I even even as a younger kid I still couldn't surf, so I didn't it didn't really matter. All right. ⁓ toughest opponent. As in team or individual? Just in general. Individual. In general. I'm so gonna put I'm still gonna put down Mark Baduca. Toughest one at training, probably David Skeen and David Green. Hate come up against them. Opposition, Andy Banal. He'd absolutely chew your ear off and Belcher and yeah, all sorts. Have you read his book? Yes, yeah, actually. Yeah. ⁓ He was coaching up at ⁓ Central Coast Mariners when his book came out. So he was ⁓ he was on to all of us at that point. Yeah, I was supposed to I I'm I'm supposed to interview him. 'Cause I hit him up on LinkedIn. Interesting character. And I read his book and I sent him a message and I Your boy your life is a f fucking movie, mate. Yeah. ⁓ So I've gotta I've gotta tee that up. ⁓ best teammate. Best teammate? ⁓ geez, there's a few of ⁓ I was good mates with Maddie Hawsey during our team. ⁓ Yeah, coaching wise, I I'm gonna change it from teammate to soccer buddy. 'Cause when you're coaching, you gotta have a soccer buddy. When everything's going wrong, you've got to be able to have a chat to him. So mine was ⁓ Jasper Spencer. Yeah? Spencer. He was my he was my soccer buddy for those ⁓ tough years when I was at the Wolves. And ⁓ yeah, I just rate being able to talk to him and he'd ask the right questions to keep my head straight. So I didn't make any Stupid errors, you know what I mean, when things aren't going right. So yeah. Teammate wise, probably soccer buddy I'd call him. Yeah, he was he was my favorite. Best coach? Best coach. ⁓ man. Best coach. I've got a couple down here. There's you know, I've I've learned off all of them. I love love being coached by Peter Willis. I love being coached by Flem, Dave Ratcliffe. I Bertie Matt, I even learned Cool things from Bertie Mariani, I had Nick. Jeez, I Casey. You know what? I'm

not because they're all older now, right? And they all love to ⁓ know that they've had an impact. I'm gonna say all of them had a significant impact on Mr. Lloyd here. Significant. And I'm not gonna single one of them out. No, fair enough. Favorite ground. Favorite ground. I yeah, I love Brandon Park. When you we had those games where there was about twelve to fourteen thousand there. That was pretty special. It was close to home, so you didn't have to travel far. ⁓ Perth Gl Perth Glory's ground. Played a few games over there. The old the old one. Yeah. Sue ⁓ Sue Viaco. Yeah, is that there? Or or an N or at N I B. 'Cause N I B that's N I B N I B N I B special. Actually I'm I'll lie. Favourite ground all time, Hindmarsh Stadium. Yeah. Yeah, high marsh, very steep. ⁓ brand stand. The grass was always spot on. And ⁓ you always had a good game there, whether it was Adelaide City or or West Adelaide, ⁓ you always knew that you had a a pretty big game. I got to play on Suncorp in front of the Wally Lewis stand. Got to play on Adelaide Oval in a semi final that we played against Adelaide. That was pretty ⁓ pretty cool. But yeah, high marsh. High marsh is my favourite. Favorite wolves memory. ⁓ jeez. There's a few like when we went out too, but I'm not mentioning them. ⁓ Favourite Wolves memory. Yeah, my favourite one was score I love scoring goals. And I had a year there where I think I got about eight or nine goals in one season 'cause I had to fill in one of our strikers got injured, so I had to move forward a bit. Yeah, scoring that goal scoring that goal against Bobby Catlin up at Marconi, I'd say that was my favorite Wolves moment. Most talented player you played with. ⁓ jeez, geez. Yeah, I mentioned Pat Brodnik earlier on. He had some natural talent but There's a few, ⁓ Lou Chonimovsky, remember he came from ⁓ Yep. He came from Vada in Macedonia, I think. Yeah, he he was unbelievable to play with. Alex Bandalo. Maddie Hawsley. Yeah, I'm gonna go with the old skipper. Maddie Hawsey. I'm putting down one of my favorites. Best best local local lad playing from Woolagon, apart from Scott apart from Scotty and And ⁓ Yeah, well I played I played ⁓ I played at Illinois Lions with Scotty. Yeah, and I Scotty'd have to be my favourite soccerer. I got to play with him when he was younger at ⁓ Illawar Lions when ⁓ Fonnie was coaching him there. We had Miley Stychovsky, I still remember we're playing Manly over at Cromer Park, and Millet came on and I think he scored a double that day to win us the game. Yes, I'd I'd go Scotty Chipperfield. Let's go Scotty Chipperfield. Love it. Love his goals. Love the way he used to play. He didn't really didn't have too much of a care in the world, you know what I mean? He just went out. He has a he still hasn't. If you go to Caribbeo, he still hasn't got a care in the world. Yeah. He's married now, so he's he's pretty smitten with Ange, I think. Best young player you've coached? Best young player I've coached. ⁓ man, I had

it ⁓ I was fortunate enough to have the Project Twenty Two squad down here in Woolongong where they Football New South Wales had a program where they picked an age group that if we won the World Cup in twenty twenty-two, this would be the ideal age to be playing for your national country. And they put a program in where parents didn't pay and they had regions where we took the best of the best. So I had some kids down here, we had nine kids in the program, and there was a kid called Marcus Bimbalovsky. And in those informative years back at the start, he had the stature and ⁓ a lot of attributes that I saw in Mark Baduca. And he was banging goals left, right and center. And so he he had unbelievable talent going for him. ⁓ the current Wolves left sided central defender. ⁓ Jillan Ryan. He was he was one in that program as well. ⁓ so yeah, youngsters. Trying to think. There's a couple at the flame there. Trying to think who I would who I think might go on to bigger and better things. Jaden Jaden Harb. Jaden Harb playing at the uni of New South Wales at the moment. Check his highlight packages on MPL one. If he's not playing A League. If he doesn't get a gig in A League next year, our our program's wrong. Yeah. Yeah. He was playing at the Flame last year in first grade at MPL three and the quality of finishing was through the roof. The guy's grown up playing footsal as well, so his touches are immaculate. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Check the highlight packages out for Jiden Harb. He's my young player to to make an impact. Who was your football hero growing up? Football hero, who do I look up to? Well, obviously at twelve years of age, you get to meet Pele. ⁓ everything, everything I did, I thought I was Pele, you know, so I'm gonna say the great one. And and I had photos to to show that I'd actually talk to him. So yeah, he was he was one of my heroes. And the final one. One piece of advice for every young footballer. Always for young footballers. Work on you ⁓ work on your decision making. Play a play a variety of sports. So you hone your skills in many, many sports. And when you're at the age of thirteen to fourteen, start to narrow that down. That's my advice to any young sports person coming through. Yeah. Hone your skills in everything. Football, I think, football development. does help for a lot of sports. Yeah, that's what that's what they that's that's what a few people have said. It's like let ⁓ play. Like Tom Samani was one of ⁓ He said, let let your kids play if you're teaching kids, let ⁓ play as many sports as they can. That's my tip as well. Let them play as many sports as you can and then hone those skills at thirteen or fourteen to those particular attributes that you have that will ⁓ make you efficient in that game. Or if you just enjoy playing, enjoy. Enjoy. Enjoy playing. Alright. I'm going to let you go and do whatever you have to do in the afternoon. Thank you for joining us on Beyond the Game Australia. And I will talk to you later. I will stop I really enjoyed that. Thanks, mate. I'm going to say hello to Bigsy as well. ⁓ too easy. I'm just gonna press stop and then I've just gotta start we'll just start a line for a minute 'cause it's got to upload.