النص الكامل لحلقة Demystifying Prayer | How To Pray Like Christ (S2E05)

have the last time. She is here today. Pastor Amy, why don't you say hi ⁓ to everyone. Amy Igweonu: Hi ⁓ to everyone. Hello, thank you for having me here today. It's always good to talk about the things of God ⁓ and prayer. So ⁓ yeah, thank you so much for the opportunity. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So what conference ⁓ before I move King James: Yes, yes, yes, yes. So welcome friends. Before I move on, I just want to encourage you to ⁓ like, share and subscribe to this channel. Continue to follow this. And also I want to be authentic with you all please. I have been not, I have not posted for quite a while right now due to some several reasons. One of which was I lost a little bit of momentum. So just being authentic here. ⁓ But Part of, partially was also the fact some technical issues I had with the recording system and did some episodes. I've actually had to cancel about three episodes that I've already recorded due to technical problem with the sound. and I've been working hard on this. I'm hoping that this one goes well. So, but if you're listening to this, then it went well. But I just want to be honest with you, due to those technical challenges, I lost momentum and I haven't posted. But we are coming back on that. We're getting back on that horse. with that said, let's get back on the show. But tell me before we go, which ⁓ I normally like to, I normally like to. Amy Igweonu: That said, let's hear back on the soul. King James: read the scripture ⁓ and as a men's text for the subject since we're talking about prayer but before I actually do that why don't I ask you a question about your own personal journey with prayer so what would you mind sharing your own personal journey with prayer Amy Igweonu: So then thanks for the ⁓ subject since we're talking about prayer. But before I actually do that, why don't I ask you a question about your focus knowledge with prayer? So what you might share any focus knowledge with prayer? ⁓ I come from a Christian family and I think ⁓ my earliest memories of a lifestyle of prayer ⁓ is my mom. ⁓ my mom For the foreseeable past or for the longest time, really. She was and is still a woman of prayer. She wakes up really early, you know, sometimes 4 a.m., 5 a.m., but not just the time she wakes up in the mornings, but throughout the day, if anything happens at work, she just maintains that constant fellowship with God. And I can say without the shadow of a doubt that her life of prayer and her devotion to God, my dad is a Christian as well, but in terms of consistent prayer, my mom is a real example and has been for us. And we've seen God answer her prayers in phenomenal ways. And I've always had that example. So for me, prayer has been natural, talking to God, but really, you know, she I would say she's an intercessor. So, you know, that lifestyle of intercession is something that I believe that I've learned. From her as well. ⁓ and for me personally, I guess also when I got filled with the Holy Spirit, ⁓ my life of

prayer took on a different dimension because praying in tongues is a whole other way of communicating with God, hearing from him, pouring out your heart to him, praying things that you don't even understand. so yeah, that would be my kind of personal and you know, personal experience and memories of prayer. King James: Yeah, I was going to ask a follow up question on that. Which season or ⁓ what experience actually, was there a time you felt like I'm no longer relying on my mom waking us up to pray, I'm no longer relying on my dad or my pastor, all those kind of things. Was there an experience that changed something for you that brought you to where you are in terms of prayer now? Amy Igweonu: And then points in ⁓ for you project related. ⁓ certainly. I mean, ⁓ there was a particular season where ⁓ I was part of the youth fellowship ⁓ in my church at the time. So my parents are retired academicians. So we grew up on a campus ⁓ in Nigeria and Port Hakott. ⁓ and I remember the church we used to go to, leaders were chosen by election. So you wrote down on a piece of paper who you thought should be the next chairman of the committee, the next youth leader. And then people just, you know, somebody prayed. And then picked a piece of paper. And if your name came up, then you know, that was it. Now that season coincided with when I got filled with the Holy Spirit, but I think so, of course, I started praying in tongues, which is, you know, really powerful way of communicating with God, like I already said. But we had this election. And of all the people in this church, and I was one of the youngest, I wasn't even quite in university then, and there were people in first year, second year, third year, final year, of all the people that were picked to be the youth leader, it was me. And I it was such a big shock for me. And interestingly, I don't know why it didn't cross my mind to refuse. I accepted, but when I accepted, I knew this was sink or swim. King James: I You Amy Igweonu: And so what did I start doing? I started reading my Bible like I'd never read my Bible, and I started praying and talking to God like I've never done before in my life. And if there's one season that kind of skyrocketed me into, you know, providing that spiritual depth and personal exposure and revelation of prayer, it has to be that season. From there. I mean I think from there my life went to a whole different level. ⁓ in terms of my walk with God and in terms of my life of prayer, praying with praying for other people, seen and said prayers. I was about sixteen. About sixteen, yeah. Sixteen, seventeen. Yeah. King James: How old were you? 16. But of course, the experience of you've been growing since then, you've not, I used to pray in the same way you prayed when you were 16. Would you say that your prayer life has deepened over time? Amy Igweonu: I believe my prayer life has deepened because I have a better understanding of prayer than I did then. ⁓ I guess praying then, I prayed watching the people around me, which is not a bad thing. You know, that's what parents should do, or mentors, or whatever. So, you know, I prayed, ⁓ you know, like I seen the people around me do. And there was a lot of communal and collective prayer, actually, which is really important because in the youth fellowship, ⁓ my God, we really prayed. The lady who handed over to me, I learned a different type of praying from her. Obviously, I had my mom there, but over the years, of course it's deepened because I have a much deeper understanding of the word of God. ⁓ I understand what it means to pray without seizing. So absolutely. I mean, yes, totally. King James: Alright, that's good. Okay, Jesus talked about prayer quite a lot. He spoke a lot about prayer. we're trying to work out which scripture we could use for prayer. There's so many. But I thought maybe why don't you, unless you have one, but... ⁓ Amy Igweonu: Yeah, yeah. A lot, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we we Mm so many. What specifically ⁓ Jesus saying something about proud just in general. King James: In general, if there's a scripture in your mind, we can use that. I was just thinking, okay, which scripture should we use as our main anchor scripture? had lots. 18.1, yeah. But I have it as one of the questions I want to ask you further down on that persistent prayer. But before we get to those, can we define prayer? Since the conversation today is about demystifying prayer. Amy Igweonu: Luke eighteen one, I think, is a very good scripture. ⁓ okay, consistent prayer. Right. ⁓ but before we get to two of this. Yeah, yeah. So in your own words. Yeah. King James: So in your own words, define prayer. Amy Igweonu: So, you know, can you have a specific definition for prayer? Maybe, maybe not. But what I will describe prayer as is communion with God, a conversation with God. Okay? And conversation meaning that you speak to him, but you also listen to him and hear from him. So it's a conversation. It's it's fellowship. It's how we get to know the heart of the Father. It's how, you know, he gets to form intimacy with us. So fundamentally, that's what prayer is. King James: Mm. Mm. Amy Igweonu: But also, and I think this will probably come out in the other questions, prayer is an expression of faith. And the Bible says without faith, it is impossible to please God, which means the more you pray, the more you actually please God. Because prayer is you talking to your father, recognizing that without him you can't survive, without him, you can't function, without him, you can't fulfill purpose. So when you're constantly talking to God, Asking for his help, leaning on him, it has to be one of the most beautiful things that fills his heart with joy. So I think that expression of faith is so important because when we talk about faith, we say we know the scripture very well, and we many of us can quote it off-heart. Without faith, it is impossible to please God. Now we also quote faith comes by hearing and

hearing by the word, but actually, prayer is an expression of faith. And the more you talk to God and you see your prayers answered, my goodness, your faith grows. When you pray, And something happens in response to your prayer, just like you asked God, surely the next time you're gonna pray more, right? So prayer grows faith as well. King James: Yes. Amen. I would like you rightly say there's no one fixed definition for prayer. Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Yeah. King James: But my own definition will be communication, okay, which is kind of part of what you mentioned, which is relationship and fellowship. And I think so if we kind of asking our question for if we're breaking this in parts, so part one of those question would be ⁓ prayer is relationship, not performance. If we just maybe for the sake of. ⁓ Amy Igweonu: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. And I think so if we kind of ask him to ourselves And now look at let's look at that scripture. ⁓ then thanks for today. ⁓ which is Matthew six five ⁓ to eight. ⁓ let me see if I can read that for you. You wanna read or unless you have a scripture. No, don't worry. ⁓ okay. King James: that title in this first part. And now, look at us, look at that scripture, our main text for today, which is Matthew 6 verse 5 to 8. Let me see if I can read that. Do you want to read or unless you have another scripture? No, don't worry. I don't want to put if you've got another scripture you want to read, keep that. Let me read Matthew 6 verse from verse 5 to 8. Jesus was talking here teaching about prayer. He says, when you pray, don't be like the farthest, the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on the street corners and in a synagogue where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get. That's harsh. But when you pray, six, but when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you. Amy Igweonu: all the rewards you will be the type I can just But when you pray six but when go away by yourself shut the door behind you and pray to your father in private for me I highlight that one your father in private. Amen. Then your father who sees everything will reward you. When you pray don't King James: and pray to your father in private. For me, I highlight that word, your father in private. Then your father, who sees everything, will reward you. When you pray, don't bubble on and on as the Gentiles do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating the words again and again. Verse eight. Don't be like them for your father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him. And then he now thought of the prayer like this, our father who art in heaven will come to that later. What does this scripture say to you? For me, the highlight today is your father, your father, which is what we're talking about, it's relationship. Amy Igweonu: Yeah. We'll come to that later. does the scripture say to you? That's it, you know. ⁓ for me the highlights there is your father. Yes. Your father,

which is about. Yes, it is, yes. ⁓ it's it's such a beautiful scripture because there's so many things I love about that scripture. You know, it says, Go into your innermost chamber in some translations. It says, Shut the door. I love that shut the door. Essentially, you're shutting out every other person, and you're just having fellowship and intimacy with your father in that moment. And therefore, that's why Jesus was quite harsh against the Pharisees because it was all a show. And so they've got their reward. You know, they're doing it for accolades, they're doing it for people to hype them. But God is saying, I want to talk to you one-on-one, like a friend, right? And he says, Shut the door, it's it's between me and you. But I then also love the other bit. He says, Your father who sees in secret. So that's powerful. So the whole actually, one of the things that God showed me in our scriptures, that whole thing, closing the door, going into your innermost chamber, God says, Your father who sees, He didn't say hears. King James: Mm. Mm. Amy Igweonu: So he's seen the posture of your heart. He knows why you've come into that place of prayer and he rewards that. So even before you say a word, he's already rewarded your time of intimacy and fellowship with him because he values it highly. That's so powerful. So powerful. King James: Yeah, so, basically, the question would have been, and which we've already kind of answered it, what should our motivation and attitude be when we come to God in prayer? Basically, that's the question we're asking and answering here. And if you're watching, that's what we're asking. What should your motive and your attitude, so take notice of motivation, suggest intention. Amy Igweonu: Mm. Yeah. Asking and answering. And if you're watching that what should be your and your The reason why, yeah. ⁓ King James: and then attitude, body language and all of those things. What should that be when we come to God in prayer? In a way, Jesus kind of answered that in this. Matthew says, but he's saying number one, motivation should not be to brag, should not be to show off, should not be religious city, should not also be performance. Because in a way it's about relationship. Again, back to your father, your father have private time with your father. Amy Igweonu: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Should not be to show off. Should not be religious. Should not also be performance. Because in a way it it's about relationship with you. But your father. Yeah. Yeah. So the motivation of prayer King James: So the motivation of prayer, I think that's a good foundation to start with this motivation of prayer is I want to know you Lord. I want to spend time with you God. I want to be with you. I want to be where you are. I want to hear your voice, not solve my problem, meet my needs and all of that, which is part of what he does anyway. And he also wants us to bring. Thank you. Amy Igweonu: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah, fellowship. I want to hear from you. Yeah. I want to be

with you. Yes. All of that which is part of what he does. Yeah. And what invites us to. Yeah. Thank you. Invites very, very important. And our body language, which attitude. Attitude is not just body language, it's also thankfulness. Yeah. Am I with gratefulness or joy? King James: those motivations are very, important. And then our body language, which is attitude. Attitude is not just a body language. It's also thankfulness. Am I coming with gratefulness or joy or, sorry, not joy necessarily, but you know, like with praise and gratitude of what he has done for me. Amy Igweonu: Being genuine, genuineness is one of those things because if you're coming into prayer, now let's leave the Pharisees for a minute because hopefully many Christians are not at that end of the spectrum. But let's come closer to the end of the spectrum that many of us could be at, and Holy Spirit will help us with that. So we come into prayer because in Sunday school I was taught the song, read your Bible, pray every day if you want to grow. So we come at prayer mechanically. And we say, ⁓ today I'm just gonna pray. ⁓ I've prayed for 30 minutes. Tick, box, tick. I've read my Bible today. Tick. That's another problem, isn't it? Because your reason for being in his presence isn't really because you came to fellowship or hear his heart, it's because you wanted to do your Christian duty. And God is not pleased with that because actually you can be there and not have any hear any, not hear anything from him, and you've left the same way you came. So let's leave the Pharisees for a bit, but this is closer to home, isn't it? Because there's sometimes you're praying, and people have said this before. You pray and you pray and then you check the time. Why are you checking the time? So if I was talking to my best friend and I'm having a whale of a time, time goes so quickly. And sometimes I look at them, ⁓ my God, we're still here five hours later. Now that's how relationship should be with God. And when you've got into that, then you know there's something you're doing right because you're enjoying his presence, he's enjoying your presence. And if you're clock watching, King James: Yeah. Hmm Amy Igweonu: I'm sorry, it doesn't sound great, but it's a problem. King James: That's an interesting aspect to talk about because I grew up with prayer. My experience growing up as a child praying was clock watching. So where did we get it from? That's the question. Because no child woke up to know how to pray. They learned it from someone. So that clock watching must have come from what we were taught. And then we didn't. Amy Igweonu: growing up as child praying was clockwatching. So where where did we get it from? That's the question. Because Yeah. Okay. must have come from what you were caught. Yeah. And then King James: we were taught how to pray but we were not taught how to pray in terms of relationship we were taught how to pray from a religious point of view and that's what leads to the

clock watching for example some people quote Jesus when he says could you not just pray with me for an hour and so therefore we must pray for an hour and so if i didn't start my prayer Amy Igweonu: Yeah point what leads to the clockwork. Yeah. Yeah. For example, some people quote Jesus when he says, You don't just pray with me for an hour and so therefore we must pray for an hour. And so if I King James: You can't blame me for checking to see have I have I have I hit my target target hour so the hour becomes the motivation not the relationship and I'm and it's funny that we're laughing about this but many believe believers actually do live on this area even in fasting there are people actually who fast like that Amy Igweonu: Chicken. You see. Hit my target. Target hour. So the hour becomes Yes. The motivation the motivation. But the person. The person, yeah. Even in fasting, you have to fast like that. Yeah. Yeah. And the seven day fasting timeline, yeah. Plus the King James: They fast, okay, I'm gonna do seven day fasting. So the fasting itself and the seven day fasting plus the dry or not dry, wet or dry, those becomes the focus that we are now suffering through it. And the funny thing is that when we've gone through that, we feel like, I fasted seven days. I... Amy Igweonu: Becomes the focus that we are now suffering through it. And the funny thing is that we don't. Ha ha. King James: dry one by the way and did you notice actually sometimes when people do that they always so quick to let you know that the first thing they did was not just any kind of fasting it was a proper one those are the things that Jesus is talking about verse 6 he says that's the only reward you get that reward you get is that oh we know you fasted and it was dry well done Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, six it says that's the only reward you get. Yeah. That reward you get is that home don't fast and King James: Key question here is, did you have a private time with your father? Did you actually know his heart after that first thing? Did you know his heart after that time of prayer? Did you come out of that prayer time saying, I know he's heard me. I may not have received the answer in now but I've sorted it out with God. Or he told me, don't worry. We'll deal with that later. Do we have that? And we don't see in the Bible where Jesus prayed to the Father and came out less, more confused. So why are we coming out more confused than when we prayed? So it could be that we need to, again, demystify prayer so we can pray like Jesus. Amy Igweonu: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. So we can pray like that. But back to the heart and back to the motivation. Now, why that's important. Clearly, the scripture you read is talking about private prayer. And that's where it starts. That's what prayer is. But we also know that there's sometimes you're going pray publicly, right? Which you know is in scriptures, and Jesus did that so many times as well. But King James: Mm. Amy Igweonu: The foundation of whether it's private prayer or public prayer is what we're talking about, that communion with the Father, that fellowship with God. Because the example that comes to my mind is when Jesus stood at Lazarus' tomb. And even though there were so many people in that moment watching him, in that moment he simply looked up to heaven. And he said, Father, thank you that you always hear me. And there were people witnessing that. So I think it's such a lesson. The motivation is so important, and how we do it and the genuineness of our prayers, because then what that means is whether you're praying privately or publicly doesn't matter. Whether you're leading people in prayer or not, you're actually talking to the audience of one. Now there are times that in prayer, of course, you have to, I don't know, sp cast out the demon or you know, issue commands and things like that. But King James: Mm. Amy Igweonu: You know, that's different. Generally, prayer is talking to God, whether in public or private. And therefore when we have the right motivation, the right attitude, you can see there'll be a genuineness to that prayer. You know? So yeah. King James: Mm. Yeah, that's good. Let's have one more question on this part and then we move on. Based on the scripture we read, there's one of the things that jumps out and that's what Jesus said here. He says, if God already knows, and this is a question, if God already knows what we need, why does he still want us to pray? Amy Igweonu: Move on. Jesus said if God already knows that the same place what we need he still want us and pray? Yeah, good. And it's a very good question, which then suddenly tells you that prayer is not what ⁓ we make of it most times. Okay. We've said already is communion, it's fellowship. But also it links back to what I said at the beginning, and I think we do need to explore this a little bit, right? So if the father already knows what we have need of before we ask him, and he's saying, Still ask me, he's very, very, very interested in fellowship. But I think the second point then is that prayer is an expression of faith, and faith pleases God. And also prayer, probably linked to faith, shows our King James: Amen. Amy Igweonu: Absolute dependence on the Father. And somebody said this, and I believe it so much. Somebody said that the more mature you become in the faith, the greater you depend on God. Unlike in a natural, where the more you grow as ⁓ an adult or teen or whatever, the more independent you become, the more you're distancing yourself from your parents and all, you know, people in responsibility over you. But in the spirit, it's completely opposite. King James: Yeah. ⁓ The more independent you become. Amy Igweonu: Which is why that scripture in Romans says those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. God wants to lead us in every single area. That was the life of Jesus. And how does he lead us through that lifestyle of prayer? Which is why somebody like Paul will say,

pray without seizing. So when you then understand that you've got to be prayer is about constant and growing dependence on God, your father, that that's what pleases him, then suddenly pray without ceasing makes sense. King James: Yeah. Yeah. then suddenly, know, without season 1, it's sad. Because you're Amy Igweonu: Because Lord, I'm going to fill the car. Now, is this the right time to go and fill the car? Lord, I'm picking up my child from school. I thank you that you've already gone ahead of me. Is there anything you want me to know about? You're constantly talking to him and listening to him. That is what prayer is in a nutshell, that life of faith. So yeah. King James: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. So that's good. God doesn't just, it's not that, but then I think it's if we make prayer need, need base, then we don't need to pray. Okay. But it's not about just need base. It's about fellowship. And that's the most important thing. Because if Jesus said, if God already knows what we have need of, Amy Igweonu: Mm need base, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because if Jesus Yeah. Jesus still wants us to come to him. Yeah. Because faith means we have to always correct it. King James: Jesus still wants us to come to him because faith in him means we have to always be in relationship with him. always need to. And prayer is always not about us anyway. Because if you think, when I say not always about us, it's not always about my own need. There are other people's need as well. So praying for the nation, praying for the rest of the world. Let's move on a little bit. Amy Igweonu: It's not always about my own needs. There are other people's needs. ⁓ absolutely. Absolutely. Praying for the nation, praying for the rest of the world. But let's move on a little bit. Okay. Okay, so part two. ⁓ King James: Okay, so part two. Let's talk about Jesus and the pattern of Jesus. ⁓ Let's talk about, so part two. Let's look at second part. Okay, Jesus and his pattern of prayer life. Let's look at that, the read further from verse nine of that map view where he's talked about and from verse nine he says, ⁓ Amy Igweonu: Let's look at second part of the Jesus his father of ⁓ their life. What let's look at ⁓ that's read the read further from verse nine of that Matthew where he talks about from a nine he says ⁓ King James: our Father. Yeah, he says pray like this. Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy. I'm reading NLT translation. May your kingdom come soon. May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our the food we need and give us our sorry give us today the food we need. and forgive our sins as we forgive those who sin against us and don't let us and don't let us yield to temptation but rescue us from the evil one you know ⁓ so this passage this prayer this this is and rescue us from the evil one. Jesus taught the disciples this prayer. So the question here is, ⁓ first of all, your personal view about the Lord's Prayer. What does the Lord's Prayer teach us ⁓ in terms of prioritizing how we shape prayer and things like that? What can we learn from the Lord's Prayer? Amy Igweonu: us from the evil one. Jesus taught the disciples this in prayer. So the question here is ⁓ first of all your personal view about the Lost Prayer. What does the Lord's Prayer teaches us? ⁓ Okay, so I don't know if it's in the Matthew ⁓ scripture you read, but I know there was one of those ⁓ times when before Jesus taught the Lord's Prayer, the disciples had just finished watching him pray. Okay, we have to remember that context. They're just finished watching him pray. Now bear in mind, these are people who have been seeing the Pharisees pray, and potentially they've been praying. So why are they telling Jesus to teach us to pray? King James: Mm-hmm Amy Igweonu: Because there's something different about the way this guy prays. So for me, the Lord's prayer, back to what we're talking about, is go as Jesus trying to introduce the disciples to the fatherhood of God, that you can directly go because it starts off with saying, our father. King James: That's interesting you said that because I was going to ask that question. He says, I was going to ask you why does Jesus use the word our Father, begin with our Father. Amy Igweonu: ⁓ absolutely. Our father, you know. So his father, that concept of father, was something that was clearly foreign. Even though God wanted to be father to Israel, the Pharisees, when Jesus said, I am my father one day, they wanted to stone him. They saw him saying God as, you know, referring to God as father as blasphemy. Right? And Jesus is demystifying this and saying to the disciple, This is our father, not just my father. King James: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Amy Igweonu: You've just watched me have a fantastic conversation with God, but He's not just my Father, He's your Father. So when you pray, our Father who are in heaven. I think that's the biggest thing to take away from the Lord's Prayer because people have made it a manual and a template. It's not, it's an introduction to people who didn't know God as father. So that context is really important. Because why the context is important is because, for example, where the Lord's Prayer says, ⁓ deliver us from evil. King James: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm Mm-hmm Amy Igweonu: After the cross, we know we can rise up and speak against evil ourselves because we now have the Holy Spirit. So the the Lord's Prayer, I think this is so important. It's context-specific. These guys did not know God as Father. And Jesus had to give them a template and introduce them to the Father. But after the Lord's Prayer, we don't have to use that template. King James: Mm-hmm ⁓ Yes, that's a question I wanted to ask also. Is the Lord's Prayer something we should repeat word for word like the church are doing today? ⁓ Or is it a pattern that teaches us how to pray? Amy Igweonu: Yeah. always. Yeah, I mean you can look at it as a pattern that teaches us to pray. So I don't because there are

principles in the Lord's Prayer that we need to pick out. So one, for example, I've said our father. Think about the culture, the tradition, the religion at the time. That was what's the word? something unknown, something unheard of. Even though God was supposed to be their father, they didn't have that relationship. And Jesus is saying he's your father. So that's number one lesson. But I love the next lesson in there where it says, Your will be done. King James: Mm. Amy Igweonu: Before he even talks about needs and talks about bread and talks about any other thing, it shows that you cannot pray without really knowing the will of God. And that's another key principle. So the Lord's prayer is really good for principles. Let me post you now. Yeah. King James: Mm. Let me pause you there. want to I'm going to bring you back again to that your kingdom come your will be done. We're going to talk about that later. But let's go back to this our father thing. Sorry, sorry, not our father. ⁓ My comment on our father thing connects to our part one of this section, which is this is about fellowship. This is about relationship. That's that's what I believe that is. And also the fact that he says, Hallow be your name, which is again that body language, that attitude. Holy is your name. Magnify him. Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Fellowship. Yep. This is about fellowship. Yep. Yep. Also the five. Yes. Yes. King James: I have my father, I adore you, I worship you. I think that's the pattern to see in that first part. But let's go back again to this bit about is this a pattern more of a pattern than something we repeat word for word. I like what you said and I want to reemphasize that. That you're bringing out that let's not forget that these people don't know how to pray. Amy Igweonu: Yeah and worship you. Yeah. Yeah. But let's go back a bit to this bit about is this the pattern small or small? King James: Okay, they said even John taught his disciples how to. I think he's in, I don't know if he's in the book of Matthew or Mark, Mark or Luke, because it was not there in Matthew. But teach us, you teach us as well how to pray. And I say, Haniel told them pray like this. If we follow that to be word for word something we need to be quoting verbatim, we don't see a pattern. Amy Igweonu: I see, good. as well how to pray and then say hang out to them train like this. Yeah. If to be word for word something we need to be put in see a pattern in the New Testament. You don't see Peter, James, John, correct any one of them. Correct. Say, okay, church, everyone. And pray the Lord's all the church pray together. Yeah. Our Father. Yeah. What what for one? Exactly. Halloween. King James: in the New Testament. don't see Peter, James, John, any one of them say, okay, church, let's gather together everyone. And all the church pray together, our Father, who art, what for word? Hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come. That will be done. Now, before anyone start throwing

stone down, down my, don't smash your TV or your phone. We are not, I'm not talking about, saying that if people are praying this prayer they are doing anything wrong please we're talking about we want to understand prayer if prayer is primarily about fellowship and relationship with god me just verbatim quoting something that someone else says quote am i really talking to my father there that time am i just saying something just to make everyone feel good those are the things we need to ask as well and none of us actually goes Do I go in my private time of prayer and start saying, my father, who art in heaven, hallow be thy name? Maybe as a congregation, it's not bad. But in my private time, I can't remember ever kneeling down before God. And I start praying, my father, who art in heaven, hallow be your name, thy kingdom. So it may work for someone who doesn't know anything about our prayer, which is what you're saying. Within that context of what it is, Amy Igweonu: So praying my father. Yeah. So it it may work for someone who doesn't know anything. Anything about God or prayer. Which is what you're saying. Yeah, really important. Yeah. Within that context of what it is, this guy didn't know their relationship with God. Yeah. Doesn't know how work with you. Yeah. King James: these guys didn't know their relationship with God, doesn't know how to work with Him and all of that. So which also could be the same today, if someone doesn't know God, but doesn't know how to pray, they pick up this Bible, which is just lying around everywhere and someone has been telling them, ⁓ God hears prayer and they stumble into this. If they pray that prayer, absolutely they connect with God, isn't it? Amy Igweonu: Yeah, yeah. If their heart is in it and they're genuine. now become a child of God, now you have the Holy Spirit to get to that point. Yeah. There's a lot more aspect of faith in you. Absolutely. Because you already have relationships. Yeah. You know, to pray like someone who knows your father. let's let's do King James: But once you've now become a child of God, now you have the Holy Spirit. And we're going to get to that point. There's a lot more God now expects of you who have faith in Him because you already have relationship. You know, to pray like someone who knows your father, imagine just let's do natural thing now to talk about this. Imagine you step into your father's house now and you're quoting, you're quoting what you're Amy Igweonu: Yeah. King James: mom or brother said we should quote and every child imagine your dad has how many children four or five five children could you just picture your dad sitting in his room and every time each one of them wants to talk to him they come quoting word for word Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Yeah, imagine dad has how many children? Four or five children? Five children. Five children. Yeah. Even if they don't have a script and they come in every time. And before, bear in mind, we're not talking about once, right?

Every time you come, dear father, good morning, father. I hope you're well. Now, father, I need 500 pounds to buy a piece of, and you're using the same words every he's gonna think, what is wrong with you? And what came to my mind as you were talking, actually, about this, I I the picture of the prodigal son just came to me. The prodigal son had written a script. King James: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Amy Igweonu: More or less, right? Because he says, I will go to my father. So he had planned what he was going to say to his father, and he didn't even go anywhere with his script. His father stopped him and said, We're not doing this, you know. Come here, give him a hug and started celebrating. ⁓ yeah, totally. So when he came back to his father, but he had planned what to say to his father, right? And the father stopped it right there. And many times God is that kind of father, he stops the rubbish there because. King James: You're talking about when he came back from, back to his dad. Amy Igweonu: He knows the sincerity of the heart. And he's like, you know, through the Holy Spirit, come on, just talk to me. I'm I'm your father. So ⁓ yeah, so interesting though. King James: Amen. we're going to get to talking about the Holy Spirit. I remember that the Bible says that He gave us the Holy Spirit by through whom we say Abba Father. That means the Holy Spirit helps us to connect properly. We're going to talk about that very soon. Okay, let's go. Let me now take you back to what does it mean when we pray, thy kingdom come and his will be done? Because again, people can Amy Igweonu: Yes through whom we Abba Father. Abba Father Abba Father. That means the Holy Spirit helps us to connect globally. Yes. Yeah. Okay, Let me now take you back to what does it mean? Yes. King James: you pray those prayer, we read it in churches and all of those things. What does that mean? Amy Igweonu: So I think that's what I was saying about the Lord's Prayer, that each line gives us a principle, okay, of how we should actually communicate with God and speak to Him. And so thy kingdom come, thy will be done. It's saying die straight away shows God has a plan and a purpose. The reason I'm not I'm on this earth is not God is not, I'm not, God is not. present because of me if that makes sense. We're here because of him. You know, like that scripture says, thou art worthy O God, ⁓ for you've created all things for your pleasure. All things are created for him. So God has a plan. He has a kingdom. And he it's a it's a you know a kingdom that ultimately he wants to Was the word I'm looking for. So that kingdom is eternal. It's an eternal kingdom, right? We know that where we are now is going to pass away, but there's an eternal kingdom. And so when we say your kingdom come, and we say your will be done, essentially we're saying, Let what you want to do come to pass. Let your plans and purposes in the earth be established. And I like that scripture actually because it says, Your will be done on

earth as it is in heaven, right? So God's King James: So there's your blueprint. Hmm Amy Igweonu: There's a blueprint. Okay. So so God already has a will. The Bible says, Forever, O God, your word is settled in heaven. Right? But it's interesting then that Jesus teaches us to pray that and straight away then we have another dimension of prayer, which maybe we've not covered because we've said communion. We said it's an expression of faith. Prayer is also a gateway to partnership. So I, as God's partner, I'm saying, God, let what you want to do on this earth be done. King James: Mm Mm-hmm Amy Igweonu: And there's so many scriptures we can't get into that, but many times when people pray that God is like, Yes, you're gonna do this, then. So, one example is in Acts of the Apostles, where they said, And by the hands of your holy child Jesus, stretch forth your hand and let signs and wonders and miracles be done. I think that was chapter four, and in chapter five of Acts, the Bible says, Many miracles were done by the hands of the apostles. So, my hand is the hand of God, and prayers begin with recognizing that God has a will and a plan and a purpose. King James: Yeah, chapter four. Mm. Amy Igweonu: And as we pray, we're establishing our will on the earth. He works through us to establish his will. So that's what I see with that that line. King James: I like that partnering with God aspect. The prayer. I'll connect this to what I said in my own interpretation of prayer, which is communication. Just simply communicating with God. And God also wants to communicate with us. And because God has given the authority to govern Amy Igweonu: Hmm. Which is complications. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, of course it's two way. Mm-hmm. King James: on earth to mankind, which is his original plan anyway, which he gave Adam ⁓ in the garden. You see that God still wants to do things through men, not just to super, you know, he's not a micromanager kind of a person. He wants to do things through us. Unless when we call out for help and we need help and then he does his plan and whatever plans he has the blueprint, he wants that blueprint. We. Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Which is his original plugin. Yes, yeah. Which he gave Adam. True man. King James: to establish that here on earth. The same way he told Adam to name the animals and things like that. Anyway, bit I was going to, what I was trying to say there is that sometimes people would not even see that this partnering, communicating prayer is actually what God was doing with Abraham when he wanted to destroy Sodom. That's actually prayer. People will not consider those conversations as Amy Igweonu: Work with them to establish that. Yeah. I was following what I was trying to say there is sometimes people would not even see That's actually prayer. Yeah. not consider those conversations that Abraham was with God as prayer. Then it is prayer. Correct. It's God Muhammad talk. King James: Abraham was having with God as prayer, but it is prayer. It's God having talk talking with us what he wants to do telling us I want to do this I want to do that and and he's looking for people to partner with him to say to him yes we agree with you Lord what do you want me to do where do you want me to be and all of those things God is looking for us to for people to rise up in faith rise up in a place of prayer Amy Igweonu: Bates rise up in the he could King James: so that he could actually walk with them to do what he has already planned to do, bringing his kingdom here on earth, what his plan for heaven or his ultimate plan for mankind or all creation happen here on earth. Amy Igweonu: to ⁓ they ask here on earth yes but his plan for heaven or his ultimate plan for Yeah. I mean, you know, that's really powerful and it opens up other things as well, right? Because let's go back to the beginning. So, first of all, God has a will, God has a kingdom. When we pray, he works with us, he partners with us. But let's remember, God created us in his own image, right? And so that word partner, in a sense. King James: Yeah. Amy Igweonu: He created us as equals. I mean, the Bible says we're heirs with Christ, co-es. So this is not blasphemy by any stretch of the imagination. He created an intelligent being, a spirit being that could create and reason along with him. And I say that because it's so important. First of all, I'll give two examples. Number one, in the garden, God brings the animals to Adam and He says, name them. And King James: Mm. Amy Igweonu: First of all, Adam probably didn't know that he had this list of names on the inside of him. Now, some people say it's names, some say it's a categories or whatever. It doesn't really matter. The point is when God said name the animals, he did something there in that moment of fellowship. He showed Adam what he was carrying on the inside of him. And that's the powerful thing about prayer. You actually don't know what you carry in your spirit until you begin to pray and begin to talk to God because deep calls on to deep. So that's the first thing, right? King James: Yeah. Yeah. Amy Igweonu: But I also love the second part of prayer, which is that I know we say prayer is, you know, we can pray that kingdom come, thy will be done. But actually, God is looking for people who will have a conversation with him and challenge him if needs be. He invites that conversation. Just like a parent, you know. That's what I was about to say. That's the example I was about to say. But I was gonna say, like a parent, you know, if my son. King James: Yeah. Which is what Abraham did that. Yeah. Amy Igweonu: Just behaves like a zombie and every time I say something, I mean my ten year old I I say something about current affairs and it's like, No, mommy, that is not correct Or he'll say, Mom, you mean you don't know this the flag of this co I mean, God loves that. God loves that interaction. And that's what we see with Abraham because King James: But not an interaction that

lacks faith. It's interaction that, it's not an interaction that undermines him, undermines his power, but interaction that could question, but how can this be? Like Mary asked, but how can this be? ⁓ Is it possible or I'm not sure, that's not what you told me before. Are you changing your mind? Those kind of things, but not like, okay, go for it. Amy Igweonu: It's not undermining, no. No. Yeah. Yeah. But even bigger than that, even bigger than that. Let's and it's consistent. I love the consistency throughout scripture, showing you that God is a humble God. He invites challenge in that atmosphere of faith. Let's start with Abraham. He says, I'm gonna destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham is like, God, what if you find 50? I can't remember the numbers. God is like, Yeah, if I see 50. Abraham's like, God, ⁓ my God, I've taken it to speak to this Almighty God. What about 30? What about 20? What about 10? God is like, seriously, it is ten. I'm not gonna do it. King James: Mm-hmm Yeah. Yeah. What what one example that comes to mind is Moses. ⁓ yeah. The amount of time God God is like I'm about to kill everyone and Moses said no you can't do that. What would how what would the world say? You rescued them just to kill them off and God relented. Amy Igweonu: W you know, that's that's our God. Okay, so that's one in case we think it's a one off. There's so many examples in scripture. ⁓ yes. ⁓ yes. Clare out of the way. Let me finish this people. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And God relently many times, not once. Not once. Yes. King James: God wanted to kill and God relented because man intervened and said, no, no, no, God, you shouldn't do that. That's not who you are. So he is that humble a God that wants, he's just a father. I think that's just that. That's what, yeah. That wants us to. Amy Igweonu: Yes. So he is that humble father. Yes, yes. Yes. But he's humble, a humble father. Because we also know there are fathers where if and and we see this with the African culture, right? You know, a father says something and his son says, But dad, shut up. Who are you to challenge my you know opinion? How dare you? King James: Yeah. Yeah. No. ⁓ Peter. Amy Igweonu: You know, true. And then in the in the UK, some years ago, well, not years, but I don't know, centuries even, you know, they would say children are meant to be seen and not heard. Right? But that's not God. And so you've talked about Moses, but let's look at the New Testament. I love, I love Peter, I love Paul. ⁓ Paul's example. So when Paul ⁓ was blind and waiting for Ananias to come to him. King James: Mm. Amy Igweonu: Jesus is having a while Paul is praying, and I love that picture. While Paul is praying, Jesus is having a conversation about him to somebody else. And he goes to Ananias and he says, ⁓ go to Saul of Tassos. I have a mission for him. Ananias is like, Lord, that man is a terrorist. What are you talking about? No, Lord, I'm not. You know, I love that. And Jesus says, No, no, no, no, no. I know what you're saying, but I've called him. He's a change person. And I says, Okay, Lord, if you say so, I'm going. King James: He's changed. Yeah. No, Lord. Mm-hmm Amy Igweonu: Or you know, God saying to Peter, Rice, kill and eat. Peter is like, No, God. ⁓ Don't tell me to eat unclean things, you know? So I love those pictures because God is a God who invites He created us in His image. Just like a best friend will, you know, have best friends will spar and have arguments. God invites us to that type of conversation and it's so powerful, you know? King James: If this is true, so why is our prayer so stagnant? Thank you. I think that's what it is. And that's why we need to break away from religion. I'm glad. I know I asked you that question in the beginning. For me, I think my prayer life changed quite significantly. Amy Igweonu: Because we haven't been taught the right thing. Yeah. King James: immediately I understood the message of grace and understood that God loves me so much and broke away from religiosity. goodness. I lost all the, you know, growing up I had this kind of prayer style where I have to say, Father God in the name of Jesus, I thank you. You're the God of glory. You're the God of majesty. I have to list all this awesome thing about him first of all before I could talk to him because I grew up with this prayer mentality that they say to you, come into the Amy Igweonu: Yes. Yes, yeah. My goodness, ⁓ I lost all the I would say Father God is the name of Jesus or the third of glory or the third of the same. Yeah. Confession. Don't forget don't forget confession. King James: house of what we praise enter his court with thanksgiving you then remember you do your confession remember the sin of omission sin of commission kymchinn of the anything just the thing you haven't even thought about just remember to confess that before you come into his presence but by the time I read the scripture and the scripture says come boldly to the throne of grace with confidence my goodness God was inviting us come boldly not arrogantly boldly Amy Igweonu: Yes. And the scripture says come boldly. It's not arrogant, but boldly boldly boldly know you are you know he is yes you know he is kind that prayer of course God of course, of course and I question things but not question him. Yes, yeah because things but I don't question God, don't say you are not King James: boldly means that you know who you are. You know he is merciful. You know he is kind. That changed my prayer. I talk to God normally and and I question things but not question him. can question things but I don't question God. I don't say you are not able to do this or no no no no those are the bits God doesn't want because we see that with Zechariah the unbeliever Amy Igweonu: Mm. God doesn't work because we sit down with Zachariah. That's this unbelief. So that's another yeah, the same question that they asked, but they asked it for And the heart, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. King James: asking the same question that Mary asked, but he asked it from a place of unbelief. Mary said, how can this be? Zacharias also said, how can this be? The same how can this be? Two people said, how can this be? One got here, Tom, so well done. The other one got dumb. No. Amy Igweonu: Or maybe angels are kinder to women, who knows? King James: No, no, we know that's not what it is. He was asking from a doubtful place, but not just a doubtful place. Only God knows his heart and knows that maybe he wasn't just doubting God's power, but was also doubting, I don't know what he was doubting, but it wouldn't make sense for God to punish him because there's so many people who ask questions through the scripture. For example, even Sarah laughed. Amy Igweonu: It was, it was, it was. King James: when when they were when she was told that she was going to have a child anyway we digress we were just having too much fun friends listen if you're enjoying this remember to like share and subscribe let us know what you think about prayer this junction we're going to move on to more questions but let me know what you think about prayer so far are you praying religiously ⁓ if you're like me if you grew up with clock ⁓ time trying to hit your one hour prayer Amy Igweonu: We're gonna move on to more questions. So far, are you praying religiously? ⁓ if you're like me, if you Talk about watching. King James: do three hours prayer and all of those things and your focus is all on trying to hit the target rather than trying to connect with your father. Know his heart the same way he knows yours. So drop a comment and let me know what your prayer has been for you. Are there areas where you need to improve? You can even ask a question and we do my best to get back to you on that. Should we move on a little bit? Amy Igweonu: So drop a comment and let me know what your prayer has been for you. Are there areas where you need to improve? You can even ask a question and do my best to get back to you on that. Should we move on to the version? Jesus didn't just teach us about how to pray in terms of prayer like this, where he thought it gave them some sort of outcome to pray. He also went further to talk about King James: Jesus didn't just teach us about how to pray in terms of pray like this where he thought gave them some sort of pattern to pray. He also went further to talk about an attitude he wants about prayer which is persistence. Okay let's talk about persistence not losing heart. The Bible scripture we want to use here is Luke ⁓ Amy Igweonu: ⁓ Okay, let's talk about resistance. The Bible scripture we're gonna use here is ⁓ Luca eighteen. Okay. I will read the from verse one to eight. I don't know if you wanna read or should we just ⁓ read verse one. Yeah, the l the main part is is verse one, which is what the you know the parable is about, isn't it? So he says in verse one and eight, first one King James: 18. Okay. We can read from verse one to eight. I don't know if you want to read or should we just read verse one, the main part. Yeah, because he says in verse one, Luke 18 verse one, he says, one day Jesus told his disciples a story to show that they should always pray and never give up. So question, what did Jesus mean when he said he was teaching to continue praying without giving up? Amy Igweonu: What I like about that is, I mean, we can't say we've not been warned, okay? That opening line there or scripture straight away tells you that when you're praying, there's a tendency to give up. There can be a tendency to give up. Why? Because I I wish it was the case that every single time you prayed about something, it happened immediately. Right? King James: Yeah. Amy Igweonu: ⁓ and so Jesus is saying that men have to keep praying, never give up. In other words, it's you know, whatever word you want to call it, persistent importunity in prayer. Why? Because your father hears you. It's all linked to what we've been saying, right? If we know that we have a father who loves to hear us, who invites us into the place of prayer, who in Matthew, I think it's the same chapter you read, or maybe ⁓ ch ⁓ chapter seven, and maybe verse seven. Where it says ask and keep on asking. Seek and keep on seeking, knock and keep on knocking. And it says, and the door will be opened. Why it says ask and keep on asking is because there's a tendency that the first 20 times you asked about a specific thing, you might not see anything happening. Right? And so this is a training that every single believer has to undergo and understand. King James: Yeah. Amy Igweonu: And that's what that parable also tells us, not just in verse one, but from the story of the widow and the evil judge, that if an evil judge who doesn't care about God or doesn't care about humans finally gives in to a woman just because this woman is not giving up, how much more God, who is a good, good father? It's what we've been talking about. If God a good, good father who tells us in lots of places in scripture, and we have if we have time, we can read one of those things. King James: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Amy Igweonu: He says when we pray according to his will, he hears us. He didn't tell us the answer will come immediately. Because if I'm praying for Canterbury and I'm praying, God, let everyone in Canterbury be born again. That's a big, big prayer. But I know that's in line with the will of God. Now it might not happen in 20 years, 30 years, but God is saying, never stop praying about that. You know, which is why we need to keep on asking, keep on seeking, keep on knocking. And God assures us because he's a good father. King James: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm Amy Igweonu: He invites us to pray that when we pray according to his will, he hears us. Keep going, never give up. King James: yeah that's powerful you know when you were talking to what hit me straight away is I think the reason why we give up is also lack of faith. Okay, because Jesus in

this story used a bad judge. Used a bad, used someone who doesn't want to help. Okay, so let's put that further in context. This person doesn't want to give you want to, is a bad judge. If we read it in context, that passage, he says, ⁓ Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Use the butt, use want to help you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So let's put that to the context. This person to give you what King James: there was a judge in that same verse two, now I'm reading verse two. He said there was a judge in a certain city. He said, who, he, sorry, there was a judge in a certain city. He said, who neither feared God nor cared about people. So this person does not care about this woman. Okay. A widow of that city came to him repeatedly asking, give me justice in this dispute. Amy Igweonu: There was a judge in a certain city. He said who is the jury. There was a judge in a certain city. He said who neither feared God nor cared about people. This person does not care about anything or anyone. The judge ignored her for a while, but finally he said to himself, I don't fear God Self confessed and I don't care about people King James: with my enemy. The judge ignored her for a while, but finally he said to himself, I don't fear God. And I don't care about people. But this woman is driving me crazy. I'm going to see that she gets justice because he because she, sorry, I'm going to see that she gets justice. Amy Igweonu: Crazy. That she gets justice because he because she I'm going to see that she gets justice because she is wearing me out with her constant request. Now, that passage while you were talking, what hit me there is that Jesus purposefully the back. Extreme case, yeah. And say King James: because she is wearing me out with her constant request. that passage while you were talking, what hit me there is that Jesus purposefully used a bad person as an extreme case of someone who doesn't want to help and say, someone who doesn't want to help, persistence will get you what you want. And then now switches the whole thing around from us. Amy Igweonu: Someone who doesn't want to help insist help will get you what you want. then now switches the whole thing around from verse six. Because the reason I'm saying this is that I believe Faith is the problem. Faith is the reason why we give up. ⁓ sixty now says King James: six because the reason i'm saying this is that i believe faith is the problem faith is the reason why we give up okay ⁓ verse six announces then the lord said learn a lesson from the unjust judge not from the woman even he rendered a just decision in the end so don't you think god will surely give justice to those to his, sorry, give justice to his chosen people who cry out to him day and night. Will he keep putting them off? Let's, before we read the next line, why do we think, why would a person give up? Who knows that God will never put me off? Amy Igweonu: That God never put me on foot. Yeah. Essentially that. Which is why he now said my safe. King James: Which is why he now said in verse eight, I tell you the truth. He will grant justice to them quickly. But when the son of man returns, how many will he find on earth who have faith? Jesus talking about persistent prayer, but finished it on, do you have faith? So the reason why we give up Amy Igweonu: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Jesus about this is the prayer. Mm. So the reason why we keep up King James: Yes, we may have been asking God for this for 20 years. We may have been asking God for this for two years, three years, whatever long, how long is. Jesus is saying the reason you're giving up is because your faith is you don't believe anymore. You're beginning to doubt that this God who is quick to answer will keep putting you off. So would you not say that the Amy Igweonu: Jesus is saying you're giving up is because faith You don't believe anymore. You don't believe anymore. Yeah. You're beginning to doubt quick to answer will keep putting you up. So would you not say that King James: Time delay sometimes is a bit of an issue. We tend to move by sight and not by faith. Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Simple answer, yes. And as you were talking, what came back to my mind is the story of Zechariah and Elizabeth. And I was just trying to find a description of Zechariah and Elizabeth because let's find you know, let's look at this. John's father. King James: Zakaria is the father of John and Elizabeth. He's a good man, he's a good priest. Amy Igweonu: John's father. You know, let's remember these people were great people. Great people. So the fact that an angel ended up slapping him is ⁓ well, he didn't slap him. Let me correct that. What did he do? He just told him you're not going to speak, right? He didn't slap him. Okay. He didn't go that far. It was Peter that they tried to give a little slap, isn't it? But but let me read this. So Luke chapter one, ⁓ from verse let's go from King James: You Amy Igweonu: ⁓ the top bit. Right. Luke chapter one from verse five. When Herod was king of Judea, there was a Jewish priest named Zachariah. He was a member of the priestly order of Abijah, and his wife Elizabeth was also from the priestly line of Aaron. King James: Good. Yep. Amy Igweonu: Zachariah and Elizabeth were righteous in God's eyes, careful to obey all of the Lord's commandments and regulations. They had no children because Elizabeth was unable to conceive, and they were both very old. I read this because that line where it says they were righteous in God's eyes, these are people of prayer and devotion. These are people who love the law. What I think happened is that life happens. Zechariah and Elizabeth, when they were younger, would have been believing for a child, just like every other young couple that. Wanted a child. And who knows, they may have been praying. But I mean, as the Bible says, Elizabeth and they were both very old. I mean, who's who keeps praying for a child when you're old? Please tell this, right? Let's come on Zechariah's side now. It's like Abraham,

who even has a promise you're gonna have a son, and Abraham is still trying to sleep a Hague and get Ishmael and do all of these things. Zechariah has kind of given up, he's become tired. King James: Yeah. Mm. Mm. Amy Igweonu: Right, and maybe we can even make an exception for Zachariah because we don't see anywhere it's written that they had been given a promise that they were going to have a forerunner of Jesus Christ. We don't have any excuse, we have promises upon promises, we have the word of God. But Zechariah would have been tired. And by the time the angel comes, let's see what his ⁓ response is. And verse 13, but the angel said, Don't be afraid, Zechariah. God has heard your prayer. Now that's another important thing. Are you seeing this? But King James: Yeah. Yeah. No, no, he's been praying. Yeah. Amy Igweonu: God has heard your prayer. I don't think it was a recent prayer. So the prayers they prayed as a young couple for a child, we don't know why it took God this long to wait till they are old. Do you see what I'm saying? But I mean, God is so merciful because He still brings the answer to the prayer. But these guys would have been praying. I don't know how old ⁓ Zachariah and Elizabeth were, but the Bible says they were old. But imagine that for 20, 30 years, maybe when they first got married for 10 years, 20 years, they prayed. And after a while, they're like, I don't think God wants us to have children. They've forgotten about it. King James: The Bible didn't say, yeah. Amy Igweonu: And you know what the angel is saying, which is a really important thing here. Never stop praying because the prayers you prayed 30 years ago, God still honors those prayers. Prayers don't die, prayers live for generations. That is powerful. If we know that prayers last for a generation, we won't even give up because even if that prayer is not answered in my lifetime, after I die, that prayer is still speaking in my future over my children. And we see that in the life of Jesus. King James: Amen. Yeah. Come on Amy Igweonu: Jesus was about to go to the cross. He was going to die, and he said something powerful. He said, Peter, I have prayed for you so that your faith will not fail. Jesus died, but the answer to that prayer was still alive. Peter was saved from that catastrophe that could have happened. Same thing with Zechariah and Elizabeth. They've prayed, prayed, prayed. They've got weary of praying, but the angel says, Your prayer has been answered. That's that's that's why we shouldn't fail in in praying, you know? King James: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm Yeah. Okay, that's good. One more question on this and we can move on to the next part. ⁓ Remaining persistent without feeling that we are trying to force God to answer. Is it possible? How do we? Because when one says become persistent in prayer, people can also misconstrued that to mean Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The trying to force God to do it outside time. So how stay consistent? Okay. So we've agreed of system. Yeah, yeah. King James: trying to force God to do it outside timing and all of that. So how can, how do we stay persistent basically? So we've agreed that Jesus wants us to stay persistent in prayer, but how do we do that? What does that look like? And how do you manage that without just repeating empty words? Okay. Does it mean being persistent in prayer? So let's just pick an example. I want a child. Does it mean every time I need to come into God, God, want a child. ⁓ Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Does it mean So let's just figure this out. I want to charge. Does it mean King James: next tomorrow, I want a child, I want a child. I'm repeating the same word over and over, I want a child, I want a child. What does resistant in prayer really mean? Amy Igweonu: Yeah. So let's go back to all the things we've said before and also bring in what you said there about faith where that we read in that scripture, right? Persistence for me is more than just what you're saying. It's an attitude, is faith. Believing, which is why prayer begins with knowing what the will of God is, right? Your will be done on earth. What's your will for me? Do you want me to have a baby? Once we've established that God wants me to have a baby, then God King James: Mm. Amy Igweonu: I really want the baby. God, what should I do in this situation? What scripture should I be standing on? That is so important, which is where that relationship comes in. Because I remember when I had my second son, I'd gone to hospital, they said he was transverse or breached. I can't well, I think transverse, actually, it was across. And ⁓ and then also I think my waters had gone. So they said, ⁓ that's very risky. You can't leave the hospital. You have you now have to stay in hospital. I think it was two months or something like that. ⁓ you have to stay in hospital until the baby comes because it can be quite risky to the baby if your waters have gone and you know this aminotic fluid is in there to protect the baby and all of those things. And I thought, genuinely, what came to my mind was I have a a toddler at home. You know, my husband goes to work. How can I come and just stay in hospital for two months? So I said to them, I'm not staying. ⁓ and they're like, What? And they got a piece of paper for me to sign. King James: Mm. Amy Igweonu: So I signed that piece of paper. But once I left hospital, I called my mom and I called my pastor at the time. And I said, This is what the doctors are saying. This is the situation. I've said no. Can you pray? That God will take charge of this situation. So they were praying, and my mom is a woman of faith. So she was standing in faith. But one day, God showed me a scripture in Hebrews 11 where it says, Sarah herself. Herself. I love that scripture. Sarah herself, not Abraham. Because the promise was to Abraham. But Sarah herself received power to conceive because she judged him faithful. Well, we know Sarah laughed. So who knows?

Between the laughter and when she had Isaac, maybe she shaped up, right? But the point is this: God will always give you a word. Because the fact that Sarah herself received faith and power, she must have believed a word that God spoke. And my point is. King James: Mm-hmm Mm. Mm. Amy Igweonu: On that journey of persistence and faith, the Holy Spirit will keep giving you words that will help you stay. And God is a father. He knows we get weary, which is why Jesus said don't give up. If if Jesus didn't know we give up, he won't be saying, Don't give up, right? So at every point in that journey until your faith becomes sight, what is God saying to you? How is he leading you? Right? And it's not every day you're gonna be saying father, no, it's Fellowshipping with him, and when it gets really when the going gets hard, some days are harder than others. You know, we think about Hannah who didn't have a baby, and when Penina began to really taunt her and be horrible to her, she just went to God and began to cry. God can handle that, right? And God gave her a word through Eli. So the journey of faith or persistence, what that looks like is staying on the word that God will continue to give you. King James: Mm. Yeah. Amy Igweonu: You can't say, God, give me a word 20 years ago. Okay, what did he say yesterday about this situation? Nothing. I mean, that's not how God works. He knows, he works with us to encourage us on that journey of faith. And if you see Abraham, he constantly was, you know, encouraging Abraham. When Abraham said, ⁓ that Ishmael will live in your sight, God said, No, it's not Ishmael. It's not Ishmael, right? But he's already told him somebody will come from your loins. Ishmael is now on the scene after he's disobeyed God and he's like, God, please, okay, let Ishmael. God says, King James: Yeah. Amy Igweonu: You know, you're gonna get a son. Do you know that's that's what persistence looks like. King James: Yes, so I love that. So it's important friends when you're listening to if those of you who are listening to this that persistent does not necessarily mean just repeating words. No, it doesn't mean just because sometimes if you do that you almost because you is also start showing lack of faith as well. Okay, a scripture that comes to mind where you were talking that came to my mind where you were talking is what Jesus also said when he was talking about the victory. Amy Igweonu: Yeah, you lose fellowship as well because yeah. King James: When after casting out, know, crossing the fig tree, the disciples were like, this is amazing, this is another level. He said, listen, you can say to this mountain, be moved and be thrown into the sea or whatever, and it will happen. And here's the key word. And this is what I believe that I link that to persistent. He says, when you pray about that, believe. Amy Igweonu: Cost in a figure. Yeah, it moves. He says but when you King James: do not doubt. I believe persistence is also persistent in faith.

It's not just persistent in repeating the words of prayer. Because your prayer should be a prayer of faith in the first place. When you say those words, let's say yes, use the word healing. You trust God for my healing. God, I believe you for my healing. Do I tomorrow Amy Igweonu: I believe persistence is also persistent. Yeah. In faith in faith. Absolutely. It's it's not just persistence words. Yeah. Well because your prayer should be a prayer of faith. Yes. Yeah, yeah. you say those words, word healing, you trust God for our healing. But I believe King James: Go back again and say, God hasn't healed me. Why did I say that? Is it because I'm looking at the physical? So if I'm basing now on the physical and then I say, God hasn't healed me, then I'm not operating in faith. It should be that once we pray, believe. Because Jesus spoke to that fig tree and walked away. He didn't take back what he said. Amy Igweonu: Say that is it because I'm looking at the if I'm basing now on the physical attention I say God hasn't helped. King James: He expected that it will happen if it didn't happen immediately it will happen tomorrow which they came back the next day and saw that it's already happened and if probably it didn't happen that day Jesus would have walked past and come back next week and then see that that's happened. I'd learn I take a lesson from that when we pray it doesn't mean we cannot bring those things back up again to God but make sure that your faith is persistent your persistent in faith you're saying Amy Igweonu: It will happen. that that's happened. I learned I think a lesson from that when we pray. It doesn't mean we cannot bring those things back up again to God. But make sure that your faith is resistant. Resistant in faith is King James: Just like this woman in that example Jesus gave, the woman said, no, no, no, give me justice. I'm not going until you give me justice. So do not withdraw your faith because some people do that. James talked about it. James says, when you come to God in prayer, he says, do not be like those who weaver. One minute you said yes, and then you change your mind and you change your mind. He says such a people will not receive anything from God. Amy Igweonu: James talked about it. James says when you come to God in prayer, he be like Yeah. Anything from the Lord. What I want to say about that is this let's not forget every other thing. I think it's really good the way the conversation is going because we're kind of building on, you know, each previous point and and topic and section, which is really good. Because the thing about the fatherhood of God, he knows our weaknesses. He he sent Jesus in our place. The the reason Jesus, I I think, stayed 33 whole years on the earth is to show us that he understands and knows what it is like to be human. You know, he could have come and after he could have come as a teenager. King James: Mm. Mm. Amy Igweonu: And then after three years, die on the cross or whatever. But he walked in our steps. He was a baby. He knows what it means to be human, which is why he's the perfect high priest. And I say that to say this: that even in those moments where I'm standing in faith for healing and it hasn't come, if I go before God and I say, God, I know your word says that by your stripes I was healed. King James: Mm. Amy Igweonu: But God, this hurts. I can't lie to you, God. I wake up, God is so painful. God, I believe your word. And you're even crying and weeping. But you're saying, God, help me. God help me to believe. That's what we saw that Father do. I believe, but help my unbelief. How can you say that? Because you're trying to believe. You know his word is true. But right now, the pain is too much. The circumstances are screaming at you. And I believe in that moment that God King James: Yeah. Yeah. Amy Igweonu: God releases help through his Holy Spirit to keep going. Lord help my own belief. I believe, but help me, I'm struggling. That's important. No. No. King James: Yeah. And that's why we're saying prayer is never a religious practice. example, this example we brought about do not withdraw your faith. You can also do that from a religious point of view and say, ⁓ you doubt it. How dare you doubt? No, no, no, Nothing we're talking about here is religious. It's about relationship. Your father knows when you're weak again. He knows when you're struggling. You come back again and say, God, Amy Igweonu: ⁓ you doubt it, how can you doubt Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. No. It's about relationships. Correct. Your father knows when you're weak and you're when you're struggling and say God strengthened. Yes. So this can never be King James: Strengthen me. need I need your strength now So this can never be taken from a religious point of view if you're relating if you're thinking about prayer from a religious point of view That's usually what the problem is Everything is about relationship if there's a thing that I will talk to God about and if I doubt it God will not be happy with me about that, but someone else Who come and say God? I thought you hit me, but you didn't And God will say, because he is a father, he understands that person, where that person is. But for me, he will be, how dare you? Because I brought you to this level, at least in this area, I brought you to this level. There'll be other areas where he will treat me like a child and say, it's okay. But in this area, King, I've trained you to this level. You shouldn't be asking me that question. You want me to zip your lip like that? Amy Igweonu: He knows he's a father. He knows that person is he knows. But for me be halfway. Yeah. After all I've done you to this level, at least in this area. Yes. I've brought you to this level. Yes, yes, yes. There'll be other areas where he becomes treat me like a newbie. A newbie. Yeah. Yeah. But in this area king train Yes, yes. Yes, absolutely. Zechariah. ⁓ dear. I take it back. Sorry, Lord. No, absolutely. The

relationship is key in prayer because he knows our weaknesses. He's been there, done that. Jesus cried in the garden. He cried. You know, I like the translation that says he was depressed. The amplifier says he was depressed and he cast himself down. King James: I'm like, no, no, no. You Hmm. Amy Igweonu: And he says, Father, take this cup from me. That's the humanity of Jesus. And God knows that. God and and the Bible says after he prayed that an angel came and strengthened him. So prayer is an opportunity for strength as well. So when we're wobbling and that walk of faith is hard, we can go before him and cry like Jesus cried. And we'll know he'll receive he'll give us strength. So yeah. King James: Yeah. Mm. I'm glad you mentioned this Jesus part. It's a good segue to the next point we want to talk about on prayer. We're covering every area of prayer today, by God's grace. It's not every, but a big portion of that. So if this is long, bear with us. We're talking about prayer. Prayer is a huge subject. OK. Let's segue to what you just talked about. That prayer you talked about, Jesus prayed in the Gethsemane, is a word he says, ⁓ not my will, but yours be done. So this section, we want to talk about. Amy Igweonu: It is massive. King James: praying according to God's Praying according to God's will. Because that's, if we want to pray like Jesus, we cannot pray. We have to pray. We have to pray like, if we want to pray like Jesus, we have to pray like Jesus. And so let's look at that. Maybe the scripture we can use here will not be that one at the guest seminary. Let's use this particular one. 1 John chapter 5 verse 14 which says, and he, and we are confident that he hears us. Amy Igweonu: Well, right. If we want to pray like Jesus, we cannot pray. ⁓ like Jesus pray like Jesus. Yes, yes. So let's look at that. ⁓ maybe speak to get us here will not be that one time seven. and we are confident that he hears us whenever we ask him for any King James: whenever we ask for anything that pleases him or are caught in line with his will. So question, how do faith and submission to God's will work together in prayer? Amy Igweonu: According to his will. In line with his will. Yeah. how do faith add salvation to God's ⁓ word? So, first of all, I think the thing to say is ⁓ you that's where it begins. Somebody says faith begins where the will of God is known, the will of God is in his word. And so this is you cannot pray effectively without knowing the word of God, which is why, you know, as a believer, if you want to grow in your life of prayer, come on, start studying the word like you've never studied it before. Because as you study the word of God, and it's back to what we said is communication, is communion, is fellowship, is a conversation with God. As you read the Bible, that becomes so easy. You can be there for hours because. For me, prayer looks like, you know, reading about a king in the Bible who's just made a stupid mistake. Okay, let me give an

example of what I've been reading recently. Why, for heaven's sake, would Jehoshaphat be hanging now with evil kings? And every not just Ahab, his son, Jehoram, I think. And every time they invite him to come and fight with them, he's like, ⁓ you're my brother. Let's go. And then halfway through, he's like, ⁓ can we check what God is saying? King James: . Yeah, do we have a prophet? And they go and get dodgy prophets and he'll be like, I feel like this, we still need one more. So which, which means it's different from this. Why are you, you out with these guys? Sorry. Amy Igweonu: Do we have a profit? Right? So Exactly. ⁓ So when I read something like that, I'm like, Lord, please explain this to me. What is wrong with Jehoshaphat? That's prayer. And I can almost hear the Holy Spirit chuckling and like, okay, this is where you need to be careful, that kind of thing, right? Or you read about Rahab, Lord, a prostitute of all the people in that nation. Why would she be the one to believe? And her whole, you know, family was saved, but the whole nation was destroyed. Why didn't they be believed like Rahab? Lord, what is this? Or Lord, what made Ruth, you know, follow her mother in law? King James: That's prayer! you Amy Igweonu: That is prayer. And as you then read, ⁓ my God. And you're asking the Lord. You're not just asking yourself because you don't have the answers. You're asking the Holy Spirit. And then he begins to show you. He begins to open up the scriptures. That's prayer at his finest. And then, of course, as you read the scriptures, you also learn how people pray. So by the time you read the moans of David and how he cries out before God, in one breath is complaining, in another breath is praising. It shows you the nature of God. King James: Yeah, so reading the Word of God, questioning things, your understanding is will. Amy Igweonu: So the Bible shows you the nature of God, the kindness of God, the humility of God, and it makes you approach him even more. If David could come before God and say all of these things and other people could confidently come into his presence, Jabez, who we don't see anything about Jabez in scriptures, and suddenly he's like, ⁓ my God, bless me indeed. And you financially it's not bad to ask God to bless you. You know, the scriptures are the template and the blueprint for understanding the will of God. King James: Yeah. Amy Igweonu: And without that, we're just gonna be making up prayers that don't go anywhere because it won't be in line with his will. So that's the first thing to note. King James: Yeah, so yeah, that was a you kind of went straight away to what I was going to ask you as a follow-up question, but you already answered it, which is we pray the will of God if you know his word. OK, so read your Bible. Amy Igweonu: ⁓ okay. Okay. Yeah. We pray in the will of God. Yes. If you know His Word. Yes. Yes. So read your Bible. Yeah. Read your Bible. Pray every day. Maybe that can be the jingle for this ⁓ podcast, right? Yeah. Read your Bible. Read Bible. No. No. King James: for this podcast. Read your Bible because if you don't read your Bible you wouldn't know what to pray. You know James says that sometimes we pray, sometimes we we we don't get what we ask. I mean we get we we don't get what we want because we do not pray in the right way. You know I think King James Vashon say we ask ask amiss. Yeah in other words we pray Amy Igweonu: Ask and miss. Yeah. We don't get what we prove. We don't get what we want in lots of people. Ask and miss. Correct. Yes. King James: because we are only praying to get something with just for our own selfish ambition and all of that. It doesn't mean God doesn't want us to have good life or anything like that. But you find out that when you know His will, the closer you get to God in relationship and fellowship, then your will becomes His will. Or His will becomes your will because His will already is established. Amy Igweonu: Yeah, for our own aims. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And all of that. Yeah. Then your will becomes his will. Yeah. His is established. Yeah, yeah. Then that your will changes to a line. Reflect his will. Yes. And that actually then brings us to the scripture eventually King James: then you find that your will changes to align to his will. And that actually then brings us to the scripture, the way God says, and the Lord would do, grant you your heart desires. know? Yeah. That God give us what our heart desires. But if someone reads that and then think, Amy Igweonu: That's desires, yes. Because your heart desires now align with his desires, absolutely. Yes. But if someone reads that and then think independent of what just says King James: independent of God and say, ⁓ scripture says that God will give me my heart desire. And then I'll say, my heart desire is I want, I want that car that that guy has. In other words, actually, not because I need a car, but just because that guy has it, I want that car. ⁓ these people are super rich. I want to be rich. So we're just desiring things that is not necessarily in line with God's will for our lives. Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ these people are super rich. I want to be rich. So we're just desiring things that is not necessarily in line with God's will. King James: So those are important things. what's sad, what's not, what we can now, let's look at the good side of this because I just looked at it from all the negative parts. The good side of it, I don't even know if it's good, but let me just say it. You tell me if it's good or not. Is. Amy Igweonu: Really important, yeah. What's up now let's look at the good side of this. on the negative parts. The good of it you told me to know is King James: what the times where people do not now also then come to god in the area where the will of god is absolutely very clear they are still praying as if god if it's your will you hear people sometimes say god if it's your will heal me and i'm questioning why would someone be

saying god if it's your will heal me does is there people god doesn't want to heal exactly Amy Igweonu: What the times where people do not now also then come to God in the area where the will of God is absolutely very clear, they are still praying God if it's your will. And I'm a question why would someone be saying, God, if it's your will, kill me? Because there is there are people God doesn't want to say, No, because they don't know his will. If you don't know his will, then you'll you won't pray with confidence. You've already read in in first John five that when we know his will, then we know that what we're asking is more or less done. Right? So confidence in prayer. Correct. King James: Mmm. Yeah, it says we are confident that he hears us whenever we ask anything that pleases him. know, ⁓ sorry. Okay, let me get it in. I just took out the verse. Let's get it properly. Okay. First John chapter five. This is a proper church session now. We've gone proper. By the time we finish, we'll be taking offering. Amy Igweonu: Yeah, and read the next verse. ⁓ sorry, let me get it. ⁓ you have a to pass and let me just get it from King James: Sorry, I'm just kidding. Verse 14. I just read verse 14. Let's see. Verse 15 says, and since we know He hears us when we make our request, we also know that He will give us what we ask for. Amy Igweonu: That's powerful. Just by knowing that he hears us, we have what we've asked for. You see, so confidence in prayer is a must. It's a prerequisite. The only way you can be confident is to know the will of God. King James: Mm. Amen. Amy Igweonu: So when you're sick and you're saying, In the name of Jesus, I was healed. Sickness, you are gone. You have no place. So you see lots of Christians who are not confident because they don't know the will of God. But the more you stay in the word of God, like we've already said, you begin to know the heart of God. You can then pray the heart of God and the mind of God, not just for yourself, but for your family, for your nation, for the people around you, for your friends. You become an intercessor because you know the heart of God, which is Moses. Moses always stood in the gap. To pray for the people because he knew God was actually merciful. He says to him, God, full of loving kindness and tender mercies. That's that relationship, that knowing of his will is so important. You can't do prayer without knowing the will of God. So you're right. Let's ⁓ read our Bibles. Before we move on to the next section, ⁓ King James: Mmm. Before we move on to the next section, ⁓ I don't know, was thinking whether I should ask this question, but maybe I should ask it because people read it in the Bible as well. Jesus talked about in the book of Mark, that time I think it was the same situation where he talked about the fig tree. And then he left a caveat there where he says when you pray, make sure you have forgiveness. ⁓ not hold grudge in your heart with anyone. So the question here, why is the

condition of our heart important when we pray? Amy Igweonu: Condition of our heart in terms of forgiveness specifically? King James: Yeah, because in line with that what he said in the book of Mark, maybe we should find it so that we make sure we're staying within context. 11. One minute. Mark 11 22. 11. Let me just use this opportunity to encourage us, those of us who are watching this, get a Bible app. If you want to be up to date all the time, we're talking about knowing God's will. Can I just use a... ⁓ I wish ⁓ YouVersion is sponsoring this video, but no. There's no... the only one sponsoring this video is the Favour House Church and Jesus Through Favour House Church. ⁓ I just want to use this opportunity because the aim of this is to help us be like Jesus. Get, if you don't have a Bible app on your phone, most of our lives is lived on this phone. Okay? That's why if you're still relying on carrying physical Bible, then probably most times you will not always have your physical Bible with you unless you have a pocket Bible. Those days we used to have a pocket Bible, isn't it? But these days, the pocket Bible I have is this. See how easy it is. know, why I'm saying this now is because how easy it is for me just to say, well, let me just check that. Let's just not quote a verse. Let's just look at it in context. And you go and you can find different translations. So you version, I think one of the episodes I've encouraged before to do this. But I'm saying it once again. If I can drop a link on the section on the YouTube, the bottom of this channel. Amy Igweonu: see how easy it is. You know the why I'm saying this and how easy it is for me just to say, let me just check that's just not quoted by chat and in the context and go and can find different translations. King James: I'll do so. But please, please, if you don't have a Bible app on your phone, get it. Get it in your language. Just always read the Bible. you, one of the best things these days, most of our phones, our cars these days have Bluetooth. And you can just hit this button, and look at that. And you can travel for two hours listening to Bible stories and things like that. Anyway, sorry, I've messed up our recording. Amy Igweonu: Mm-hmm. Just listening to the Bible. Yeah. Anyway, sorry, I missed some bad. Okay, let's get back. King James: Okay, let's get back to the point. Mark 11 22. Okay. It says, then Jesus said to the disciples, have faith in God. I tell you the truth, you can say to this mountain, you may be lifted up and thrown into the sea and it will happen, but you must believe it will happen and have no doubt in your heart. I tell you, tell you, I tell you, you can pray for anything. And if you believe that you have received it. It is yours. day of summer, first John, but he now leaves that caveat we're talking about. But when you are praying, it's not after when you are praying, first, forgive anyone. You are holding grudge against. Amy Igweonu: If you believe that you have received it, it is yours. Same as first John. When you have leaves that company we're talking about forgiveness. When you are praying it's not Don't grudge that hands so that your father in heaven will forgive your sins. Yeah. King James: so that your Father in heaven will forgive your sins. Not sin, not the sin of unbelief, but sins too. Amy Igweonu: No, it's a really interesting scripture, isn't it? The thing that comes to my mind is the Lord's Prayer. Because actually, Jesus says there, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those. He didn't say it's not an option. Do you know what I mean? So, forgiveness, we know that the enemy can take advantage of those things in our hearts to hinder our prayers. It says in Corinthians that the devil does not hinder your prayers. The devil is out to hinder our prayers. Unforgiveness, bitterness, all of those things. King James: We forgive those who to Amy Igweonu: And you know, ⁓ I think it's efficients where Paul says and forgive one another as Christ ⁓ forgave you. So I think it's it's clear that we don't want to give a foothold to the enemy for unforgiveness, anger, all of those things, bitterness, it just blocks yeah. It just blocks us from receiving, isn't it? And that fellowship. Yeah. Absolutely. King James: Yeah, the scriptures. Absolutely. Especially the scripture that comes to mind now, so you're talking now, is the one in Hebrew. I think it's Hebrew four. says, now come to the throne of grace with confidence that you may receive grace and mercy. I look at that word, grace and mercy, when you need it the most. And yet the, he says to the merciful God who is merciful. So if I come to him, Amy Igweonu: Grace to help, yeah. Mm-hmm. King James: Every time I come to God, I need mercy. I need grace. So it means that I need to be merciful for him to, for me to, I don't want to use the word qualify, but he put it that way. I'm not, it means that God, I think he's in the Beatitude, he's also the blessed of the peacemakers, blessed of the merciful. They will obtain mercy. Exactly. So coming to God, Amy Igweonu: Yes. I need grace. So it means that to be merciful for his for me to ⁓ I don't want you to work qualified, but he took down Yeah. Merciful. But they will obtain mercy, that's in the beatitude, yeah. Exactly. So coming to King James: We always come into God to receive mercy. So it makes sense to come to God making sure that I'm not bickering and fighting and hating this person. Even if people hurt me, come to God and say, God, this person hurt me. I'm struggling with this person. Please help me to love them. Help me. There are some people who are much more difficult to love than others. Help me to love this person. Again, not from a religious point of view. It's relational. Amy Igweonu: Yes. So it makes sense to talk to God Yeah. Help me to love this person. Again, religious point of view. It's relational. Yeah, it is. Everything is about relationship. But it's important to recognize that God

says Jesus said when you pray. Yeah. King James: Everything is about relationship, but it's important to recognize that if God says Jesus said, but when you pray It means we should take that serious Amy Igweonu: We should take that seriously. ⁓ no, absolutely. And I like the angle you're bringing there about mercy, because you're right. When we come before God, we come not on our own merit, but we shouldn't even be there. We should be nowhere near the throne. You know, we think about the Old Testament and we know what it looked like, them approaching God. So knowing that I shouldn't be anywhere near the throne and God still shows me mercy, then when I'm now King James: Mmm. Mm. Amy Igweonu: Praying and I haven't forgiven another person. It just doesn't make sense. Which is why Jesus then told the story of the servant who was owing, let's just say, five million pounds. And he kneels down to beg. He it shows a lack of humility, even because he kneels down to beg and the king is like, ⁓ no, I'm gonna, and he says, Please, I can't. And the king's like, ⁓ okay. And then he gets off from there. And goes to hold somebody by the neck. I think it's either the message translation or the passion translation that says he literally holds this guy by the scuff of his shirt or whatever. And I think for 500 pounds, I can't remember what the equivalent is. And he says, no, no, no, no. I'm throwing you into prison if you like it shows the hardness of the heart of that person. You've just received mercy. The fact you receive mercy means you should be merciful to others, right? But no, no, he doesn't reflect on the facts, it just doesn't make sense. And God is saying, No, I'm not gonna accept that. King James: Mm-hmm. ⁓ And in a way, God despises that quite a lot. He's not happy with that significantly. There's so many scriptures about that, you know, not caring for people, not loving people, not being kind, not being tender, not being gentle. Because all of those things, all of, exactly, because the Father forgave you. He forgave you. So why shouldn't you forgive? Exactly. Amy Igweonu: So this we're just about that. You know. Especially as you've just received mercy. Yeah. Forgive you worse things, which is the whole aim of that story. God has forgiven you your sins. I mean, we should have, like I said, we should have been nowhere near the throne. Yet we come, we receive mercy, we're kings, we're priests. God has given us so much. And then what has my neighbor done to me that is anywhere near what I did to God? King James: Mm. Mm. Mm. That is a. You know, this is, I know sometimes talking about prayer, someone is easy for people to, if someone joining us now might not even think we are talking about prayer, but they don't know that this is an important aspect of prayer. Amy Igweonu: But they don't know that this is a link to prayer. Yeah. There are so to different things. Yes. Who are holding on to five and three King James: There are so many people who are holding

on to bitterness, who are holding on to strive and envy and anger with what they did to me. That person did to that pastor did to me. That sister did to me. And we're still praying and we're still coming to God and say, God healed, God cast out demons, God do this. And we're wondering why. Jesus said it very clear. But when you, he said, you can move mountain. Absolutely, you can move mountain if you believe. But when you're doing that, make sure that your attitude of heart. Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Make sure that your attitude of heart is an absolute state of creating terms of towards people. Yeah. Not just towards God now. King James: It's an absolute state of purity in terms of towards people, not just towards God now, but making sure you're not holding on to any anger with anyone. You know, like he says, not even not yours. The sun rise up or go down in your anger. So we need to take this very serious friends that this is an important aspect of prayer that we easily neglect. We just say, OK, His mercy for His kind. He will understand. Amy Igweonu: Any anger for anyone. not in not your son, rise up. Yeah, said with we need to take this very serious friends. But there's this an important aspect of prayer that we easily neglect. We can say, okay, his message is right, he will understand. I can keep holding on to anger towards people that God understands. King James: I can keep holding on to anger towards people, but God understands. Yes, he understands, but he said clearly, Jesus is one that said this clearly, let go. And if you're struggling to let go, I'm speaking to you directly now. And if you're struggling, one of those who are struggling to let go, is merciful. Call to him, cry out and God help mercy. Soften my heart. You know, it's easy for our hearts become hardened by hurts and pain. Many people actually become cold because they say if I just open up a little bit more to people, they're going to hurt me again. And I want to do that. And they become cold towards people, whereas expecting lots of mercy from God. Amy Igweonu: So, what's important? That's what Paul tries to do in Ephesians 4. And I think hopefully, if you're struggling with this unforgiveness, bitterness, maybe this can help you. Ephesians 4, I think is verse 32. And it says, you know, be kind, be tenderhearted, forgiving one another. But it doesn't stop there. It says, even as God for Christ's sake forgive you. And so we must always, this is in the light of the cross. You know, you know that. You don't deserve the mercy of God. You know, we don't deserve God's kindness, God's forgiveness, because we sinned. Our sins were like filthy rags. We were enemies of God in enemy territory. We were alienated from God and still God forgave us. What is it that I can't forgive? What can't I forgive? If we look at it, let's that's what Paul was saying. Even as God, for Christ's sake, forgave you, if God forgave us all that. King James: Yeah. Mm. Mm. Yeah. Amy Igweonu: I can forgive. And you have to say that to yourself. That's the word of God and keep speaking that. And let God heal your heart and help you. King James: Amen. know we're talking about prayer, but it's we're touching quite a lot of things here. ⁓ Friends, please, if you're watching this, God will not take it lightly how we treat each other. ⁓ So, yeah, and that can also hinder our prayers. Let's move on. ⁓ Two more. We still have time for two more. By the time we finish, we'll be 13 hour video. Amy Igweonu: Mm. King James: Nah, nah, nah. Sorry. All right, praying with the help of the Holy Spirit. You know, we've talked about a lot of things. You cannot talk about prayer without talking about the Holy Spirit. OK? The Romans chapter 8, let's use Romans chapter 8, and I have a question for you there afterwards. Romans chapter 8, I'm just reading from what I have here, and then maybe you can open it later. It says, the Holy Spirit verse, Romans 8 verse 26. Amy Igweonu: All right, ⁓ praying with the help of the Holy Spirit. Yes. Holy Spirit was Romans eight was twenty six it says and the Holy Spirit helps us in our weaknesses. For example, we don't know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with clothing that cannot be stressed for us. So how does the Holy Spirit help forgive us? King James: He says, the Holy Spirit helps us in our weaknesses. For example, we don't know what God wants us to pray for, but the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words. So how does the Holy Spirit help believers pray? Amy Igweonu: Wow. ⁓ you know, such a powerful scripture and really one to ⁓ a a really good question to answer. How does the Holy Spirit help us to pray? You know, the Holy Spirit is there, first of all, to even teach us to pray. But I think I want to talk about the gift of tongues. and I know that there are parts of the church that don't really believe that it's, you know, some don't believe in it, some don't think the gifts are for today. So that's one one group. But another group don't think it's important. You know, even if you're a believer, you don't have to speak in tongues. But I think that you're doing yourself a disservice if you're thinking like that. Because ⁓ I'm in a group that absolutely believes in speaking in tongues. And I started speaking in tongues at age sixteen and it changed my life of prayer. King James: And so which group are you in? Okay, so I'm going to be those, let me speak like those who are in the group of the ones, one of the other groups, that don't think it's important or do not even think it's stopped with the apostles. So you're in the group that believes that speaking in tongues is very important. Why? Amy Igweonu: Ha ha. Yeah. Yes. Apostles, yeah. So you're in the group that believes Yes. ⁓ my goodness. You know, the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues is a prayer language. And essentially, is the Holy Spirit praying through you. Okay. And essentially, when you're when the Holy Spirit's

praying through you through you in tongues, you are praying the mind of God in that moment. Okay. So we don't pray. If I pray my understanding. It's quite limited what I'm going be praying about, right? When the Holy Spirit prays through me, the opportunities and possibilities, I think is the word, are endless. Because if he's praying the mind of God, and First Corinthians, I think, tells us that the mind of God is vast and only the Holy Spirit can. It's back to what we're saying about the will of God. When you then pray in tongues and the Holy Spirit is praying through you, you're plumbing the depths of God's mind. And King James: Mmm. Amy Igweonu: You might be praying for things that in a million years you don't even have any idea about. You might be praying praying about 10 years from now. It's the most effective way to pray. If you pray in understanding, after one hour, what how you know what else are you going to pray about? You've prayed for your city, your nation, you've prayed for your loved ones, you've prayed about your job. What else do you pray? When you pray in tongues by the Holy Spirit, you can just keep praying. And actually, that scripture, Romans 8, is something we don't talk a lot about because he even says. groanings. It doesn't it's not even talking about tongues now. It's talking about groanings that cannot be uttered. King James: Yeah, says, yeah, grown is that cannot be expressed in words. It's much more even than that. Amy Igweonu: Exactly. Look at that. So it's not even you can't even express so there's something at yeah, we there's a depth to prayer that we see expressed in these scriptures that you know many of us don't even know a lot about. And it's a must that we allow the Holy Spirit to pray through us in with the gift of tongues. And I've shared this story before, but I I can share it again, and it's one example of many. But some years ago, and quite a long time now, maybe close to 20 years or at least 15 years, I traveled away from home for an interview and I was going to stay away for two days. I came back to the house where I was staying at the time. My cousins had never met them, and they graciously allowed me to stay in their house. So I was sitting in the living room chatting with them and just generally having a good time. Then I had a prompt from the Holy Spirit to go into the room where I was given to pray. I didn't know why I was praying, I didn't have a clue. So I just started praying in tongues. And you know, this wasn't that long from when I got the gift of tongues, actually. So I just started praying in tongues and I prayed in tongues and I prayed in tongues. And after a while, I had a release that it was fine. What was fine? I have no clue. All I know is that the Holy Spirit has said, okay, that's fine now. So I left the room and I went back to hang out with my cousins. And only for my mom to call me that evening and say my dad had had a head-on collision. And the head-on collision was at the time I

was praying, because I think it was about two in the afternoon and it was the same time I was praying. Now tell me if I was praying in my understanding. Please tell me how I would know that my dad was in a head-on collision to pray. King James: And even if you prayed in your understanding, wouldn't you have panicked and started calling him and started, yeah, causing... Amy Igweonu: I know. I mean, this was before mobile mobile phones were not that, you know. But you're right. I would have been in a state of panic. So God actually preserved my mind through that gift of tongues. And it happens so many times, you know. Many times you're praying and interceding. In your mind, you know, you get the interpretation as well sometimes that you're praying for a particular topic, but it might not even be anyone in your vicinity, it might not be anyone even in the nation. It could be your interceding for another nation. That is the power of praying in tongues. King James: Mm. Amy Igweonu: And so our understanding is so limited and we're doing ourselves a disservice when we're not praying in tongues. King James: I am so tempted to dwell quite a lot on tongues and give ⁓ maybe I'll do another section do another episode on tongues ⁓ but maybe one or two scriptures to talk about in line with what you're just saying I wanted to just go into a proper debate with you so that we can delve too deep on tongues but I'll leave that for another session Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so I'm gonna speak side to your side. ⁓ really? Okay. Get to where we're going. King James: Okay, so I'm going to switch sides so we come to your side. I'm one of those who are good so that we can get through. We'll get to where we're going because we're about prayer today, not tongues. ⁓ Yes, very, very important. And ⁓ one scripture that comes to mind is 1 Corinthians chapter 14, which Paul was talking about comparing prophecy and tongues, gift of tongues and gift of prophecy. Amy Igweonu: ⁓ which Paul was talking about comparing the prophecy and tongue. Yeah. King James: And ⁓ of course, within context there, he's trying to say, listen, it's important to pray in, to speak prophetic words. In other words, we can understand when you're in church. And if you speak in tongues, then in church, that's in a public place, in church, and then it's important to interpret. Amy Igweonu: in the con within context there he's trying to say listen to pray in to speak it in prophetic words in other words we can understand yeah church yeah ⁓ and if you speak in church interpretation public in church and ⁓ it's important to interpret Paul was not trying to say the operating tongues okay and he also does was not trying to say not great in church he's saying imagine King James: Paul was not trying to say do not pray in tongues. ⁓ And also those was not trying to say do not pray in tongues in church. He's saying, imagine I preach on Sundays, you preach on Sundays. Imagine when you step up on Sunday, on a

Sunday morning and you took the microphone and then you off you go for the next one hour ⁓ or 14 minutes, even if 10 minutes, are none of us are benefiting if you do not interpret. That's what Paul was talking about and never about prayer. Amy Igweonu: We are none of us in our benefit. Yeah. Absolutely. And never about prayer. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we're talking about praying in terms. Yeah. he now said in verse fourteen four. King James: Okay, but we're talking about praying in tongues and I love what he now said in verse 14. says for I if I pray in tongues my spirit is praying. I don't understand what I'm saying verse 15. Well, then what shall I do? I pray in the spirit. Is that not interesting? The way he's switching tongues to spirit because sometimes when people say pray in the spirit they try to exclude playing in tongues or no praying in spirit is praying in tongues Amy Igweonu: Yes. I don't understand what I'm saying. I pray in the spirit. Is that not tongues? The spirit, yeah. Sometimes when people say pray in the spirit, they're trying to exclude praying in tongues. ⁓ no, praying in the spirit. It's praying in tongues, yeah. Definitely not limited to praying in tongues. It says my spirit praise. Yes. It says, yes, ⁓ it says ⁓ King James: and it's not limited to praying in tongues, okay? Praise, yeah. says, yeah, it says, no, it says I will pray in the Spirit and also I pray in words I understand. I will sing in the Spirit and I will sing in words I understand. verse 15, verse 17 is where I'm going. But 16 says, for if you praise God only in spirit, which is in tongues, Amy Igweonu: Mm-hmm. And also sing spirit and I will sing in words I understand much Christina verse seventeen is where I'm quite but the simply says for if you praise God only in spirit how and which is a talk how can those who don't understand you praise God alone with you otherwise you lead worship of something. Imagine leading worship with Len and that we we'll just watch you. Yeah. Go just enjoy King James: How can those who doesn't understand you, praise God along with you? In other words, you lead worship on Sunday. Imagine leading worship in Leda, Barrako, Leda. We'll just watch you. We'll just enjoy the music. We're not the words. And how can they join you in speaking and giving thanks when they don't understand what you're saying? Now, that's the word I want you to take notice. Amy Igweonu: Mm-hmm. What you're saying. Now that's the word I want you to do. Which is he says in text and then says seventeen. King James: He says in giving thanks. And then I says, verse 17, you will be giving thanks very well. OK? But it will not strengthen those who hear it. I want to highlight that verse 17. The effectiveness of speaking in tongues. It says it that when you're speaking in tongues or singing in tongues, Amy Igweonu: Okay. I want to highlight that person. The effectiveness then of your giving text. Yeah. Yes, yes. Yes. Or singing. You are you are at the level you are operating at that level. You are giving text. Very well, effectively. King James: you are you are at the left you are pretty at another level he says you are giving thanks very well in context of this chapter he's talking about it's not benefiting the person next to you because it's not a conversation between you and god and they're not benefiting which is why he's saying prophecy is better for that person but paul was never saying for you since prayer we're talking about his fellowship with the father Amy Igweonu: Yes. Because it it's not a conversation between you and God. Yes. And they're not benefiting. Yes. Why he's saying prophecy better for Paul was never saying for you. Yes. Since prayer we're talking about is fellowish. Yes, yes. Go in your co King James: Go in your, where we started, go in your closet and talk to your father. Why are you, why, is it not much beneficial if I pray very well and giving thanks very well? Is it not better if I go in my closet to just lift up my hands and say, Holy Spirit, help me. And I switch in tongues because I'm giving thanks very well. And let him now be the one that gives me understanding on which area. Amy Igweonu: Yes, to be highly effective in my prayer. Yes. Amen. Amen. Absolutely. Absolutely. Interpretation. Yes. Amen. So that devil can also hear what I'm yes. Yes. So that maybe King James: to speak out in words so that not just me will hear it so my atmosphere can hear it, so that the devil can also hear what I'm saying and get out, so that maybe my body can also hear it and be healed, or so that maybe the city can also hear it. So you find yourself praying in tongues and all of a sudden you say, Canterbury, I call you back to God. You know that, you're praying in tongues again and all of a sudden you get that word, my leg, knee, ligament, a line. Amy Igweonu: Absolutely. So you find yourself playing tongue almost all your be healed. Yes. You know that guy you play in tongues and you're all of a sudden you get King James: You speak out that word so that the other parts who don't understand tongues, because the only one that understands tongues is God. You don't even understand it when God understands it. So that's why I switched over to your side, to agree quickly. Amy Igweonu: Hear it, take part, yeah. Yes, yeah. You don't even understand it, you don't understand the speech. And you know, yeah, and it's interesting, isn't it? Paul was very bold when he says, I pray in tongues more than you all. King James: Mm. In that same chapter, Amy Igweonu: And I don't think and I don't think he was here saying I've clocked twenty hours, I've clocked thirty hours. What Paul is saying is, when I'm not here with you guys, I basically pray in tongues. King James: Yeah. By the way, let me just say, because someone might just say, ⁓ she just put this something out of context. Let me just say it was the next verse. You will be given thanks very well, but you will not strengthen the people who hear you. I thank God

that I speak in tongues more than all of you. So which means that the life, this miraculous lifestyle Paul lived. Amy Igweonu: So which means that ⁓ The revelations he got all sorts of things powered by that come on by his effectively praying in tongues. King James: The miracles and all sorts of things, the teaching of the gods, what everything here is powered, empowered by him spending time in tongues. Amy Igweonu: And I, you know, the scripture I wanted to read, which we know really well, is Jude ⁓ 20, but I wanted to read it ⁓ in the Passion Translation, actually, where it says, But you, my delightfully loved friends, constantly and progressively build yourselves up on the foundation of your most holy faith by praying every moment in the spirit. Constantly and progressively build yourselves up. So one of the reasons we're not built up is that we're not constantly praying in the spirit in tongues. And that's a gift. So it's not just even all the things we've now said about, you know, the different dimensions, praying the heart of God, really going far and wide and knowing his will, but actually growth comes from praying in the spirit. King James: Mm. No. Amen. Amy Igweonu: So yeah, really, really important and ⁓ yeah, if there's someone out there who doesn't pray in tongues, you know, it's time to ask the Lord for that gift and receive. Yeah. King James: That's maybe the only thing I'm going to want to add here because it's important to just throw that in. It starts with a desire. If you don't have the desire, then ask yourself why. If I don't have the desire to eat, then something is wrong. I'm using natural example. Naturally, a child should desire to eat. Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Yeah, to explain that, yeah. King James: But if they don't have that, then something is wrong. There's something amiss. And what would that be? Maybe illness or something. In a spiritual realm, a child of God should desire everything God has for them, okay? Including the gift of tongues that Jesus said very clearly. Amy Igweonu: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Including the gift of tongues that Jesus said very clearly, this sign will follow everyone who believes, anyone who believes. In my name they will speak in new tongues. Absolutely. So it's a promise to you. Yes. So if you the desire, it's something that's at least. Okay. King James: This sign will follow everyone who believe, anyone who believe in my name, they will speak in new tongues. So it's a promise to you. So if you don't have the desire, something is amiss. Okay, and that could be bad teaching. In deficiency in the understanding of God's word, denominational issues, where people are in denomination, where they don't even talk about it. You know, so I want to encourage you, we want to encourage you, ask God to give you the desire. Ask God to open up your eyes. Go to the scripture and read about the speaking in tongues and you will see it's for you. And if you believe God for it, you can ask him and Hans will be laid on you. But even Hans doesn't need to be laid on you. You can actually pray. And Jesus is the one that baptizes us with the Holy Spirit. We'll talk more on the gift of the Holy Spirit in that area of speaking in tongues. ⁓ in another session, in another episode. So let's move on and our last part of this or else we're gonna be here all. Last question, which is the last part. Last part will be praying for people and yeah, but last question. This time wanna talk about what can we learn from the. Amy Igweonu: ⁓ let's move on and our last ⁓ part of this question or last part. Okay. King James: apostles lifestyle of prayer and the early church okay so we just want to glean a little bit from that okay ⁓ so ⁓ we could look at art of the apostles and this chapter there's too many books are here ⁓ one of them is ⁓ as of the one you've kind of quoted up which is as chapter four where they are and all the believers prayed together as chapter two all the believers we notice how many times Amy Igweonu: Yeah. There's too many books ⁓ one of them is ⁓ Hunts of the Police. together. Ask for two all the believers. Yeah. So many times two of all the believers. Yeah. All the believers. Yeah. And notice that all. So question King James: Ask chapter 12, all the believers, chapter 13, all the believers. And notice that all. So question, we can read the scripture, but I'm just going to ask you a question. What can the modern church learn from the prayer life of the believers in the Book of Acts? Amy Igweonu: Wow, what can they learn? I mean, it's interesting, isn't it? Just like you ⁓ as you were saying, all, all, all. The first thing that hits me is that for all of you to be praying in the same way, there must be a basic understanding of the power of prayer and the importance of prayer. All of you can't come I mean, I I think about our church. I think about the church. Can I say all believers come together and lift up their voices? Getting people to even lift their voices in prayer is a problem. King James: Hmm Hmm Amy Igweonu: But for the early church to all collectively lift their voices, value prayer, the teaching was right. There was something that was right about prayer, the teaching about prayer. And we see it, like you say, consistently true. And I I, you know, we see it consistently through the scriptures. I pray that the church will come back to this place. Of understanding the power of prayer, not just me understanding prayer, not just you understanding prayer, but there's a collective understanding. And when we come together collectively, miracles begin to happen because we see it in the life of the early church. You know, we see, I think it's in Acts 16, where James has been beheaded and Herod, because it makes them, the Jews, happy, decides to get Peter beheaded and the church goes into prayer. Who taught them persistence like that in prayer? I mean, persistence to the point that. King James: Mm. Amy Igweonu: Yeah, okay. The faith, who knows

what it is they were believing for. I don't know because they do something quite random. But I love the fact all of the believers were meeting in the house of this woman or believer and praying nonstop. I there's something to learn there. It's persistence, it's faith, it's unity. We see it in Acts chapter four. All the believers lifted up their voice. King James: I never know. Mm. Mm. Mm. Amy Igweonu: And they prayed and the place was shaken. There's a power to that unity. There's a power to that collective agreement. And that's what we can learn today. So when we're saying come to prayer meetings, you know, prayer, lift up your voice. Come on, let's leverage the power of prayer because we know already in James it says that the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man makes tremendous power available. Imagine if 10 righteous men are praying, if 20 righteous men are praying. Imagine the power. And that's what we see in that building being shaken. King James: Yeah, as you're talking the scripture, I wasn't going to read scripture because we were trying to round up, but we need to go back to scripture. We cannot talk about the church without talking about where the church started. OK, the church started with the Apostle Peter. After the day of Pentecost, they've got baptized with the Holy Spirit, they spoke in tongues and stepped out boldly and he preached the gospel to them. Amy Igweonu: Hmm. Yes, yeah. ⁓ Stepped out book yeah and he preached the me. Yeah, yeah. they said men are brother for some people. King James: And they say, men and bread and what shall we do to be saved? And he talked straight away about the baptism of water and the baptism of Holy Spirit. Immediately he says, this gift is for you. It's not just for you, it's not just for us, it's for everyone. It's a promise to you. And he says, if you would repent of your sin, believe in Jesus, you will receive the same gift. And Bible says, and 3,000 men, just men, believed. Amy Igweonu: It's a promise to you. And it says ⁓ if you want to defend of yourself if you will receive the same gift. And the Bible says But I did, yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. King James: and were baptized and they were added. It's not just men, of course, women and so that we don't know the number of the church, but it was a huge number of church, thousands, thousands of people. The next verse, all the believers devoted themselves to the apostles teaching, fellowship, sharing of meal, to prayer. So. Amy Igweonu: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Huge it was, yes. Mm-hmm. King James: Because we're talking about prayer, let's just forget the other ones. All the believers, 8, 12,000, 13,000, I don't know how many thousand member church that is. All of them devoted themselves to prayer. Why? For me, I believe the gap is here with the pastors. The gap is with those God has appointed to lead the church. Amy Igweonu: Yeah. All. All the believers. Yeah. Eight, twelve thousand, thousand. ⁓ I don't know how many thousand children. Think about that. All of them devoted to the self together. Wow. King James: Of course, it's happened over many years that now we get people saved. We bring people to Christ. We do not teach them anything. We don't teach them prayer. We don't even teach them to read the Word. We don't teach them. We've developed just Christians that just need us all the time. Thank you. It says, teach these new believers to do. Amy Igweonu: So lack of disciple it's back to lack of discipleship, isn't it? King James: Go to all the world, make disciples of all nations. He didn't stop there. said, teach those new believers to do all the things I've commanded you to do. He commanded them to pray. He commanded them to receive the power of the Holy Spirit. How many pastors these days are getting people saved, baptized in water, and says, right, now that you got baptized with water, come on. You need baptism of the Holy Spirit before even you go for mission. How many people do that now? No, they just are busy debating. Is baptism, do you need to speak in tongues or not speak in tongues? No. So we have watered down quite a lot of things that we have now raised the prayerless generation, a prayerless Christian, and of course, when they now even teach prayer, they now teach you from the religious point of view. that people when they pray, even the ones who you think they are really praying are clock watching rather than having a relationship with God. So we have a lot to do to get back. So I want to ask that as a question, how can the church move prayer from being an occasional activity to becoming part of the culture? Amy Igweonu: Yeah. I mean, you know, we've we've kinda covered it really. The the word part of what you're saying there is that the the word of God isn't central to how we do church these days. And the word of God has to be central. It has to be back. You know, in in the in the center of everything that we're doing. It becomes the blueprint, it becomes a template of how we do church. The leaders themselves have to believe in it and model that behavior. The Bible says that the apostles they said to Philip and Stephen and those deacons, I think it's Acts chapter six or seven, and they said to them, You go and look after this distribution of food to these widows. We would devote ourselves to the word of God and prayer. To prayer, right? And if you're reading in that scripture there that the early apostles or the disciples, all those thousands of people devoted themselves to prayer, that's what they've seen the apostles doing, right? So that's the pastors have to start doing that, putting central, you know, prayer front and center as well in churches. And I guess teaching believers to pray together, to lift up their voices. You know, sometimes you tell people to lift up your voice and pray, becomes like an alien thing. Yeah, the church did it. King James: Mm. Mm. Yeah. Mm. Mm. Amy Igweonu: You know, and it's those practices we have to embody and teach people to do this

because there's such power, re God's power is released when we do that as a collective. King James: Yes. Absolutely. So we need to teach people back again. We need to make prayer part of, not part of, central to our calling, central to living the Christian life. But as we're doing that, whatever we do, do not do it from a religious point of view because that's what some people did. I grew up, I'm not talking about necessarily my churches. I grew up within the circle or the atmosphere where Amy Igweonu: ⁓ absolutely. Yeah. But that's what we're seeing. Mm. King James: I know so many people who are prayer, prayer, prayer people. But I look at their life, the gap, there's a huge gap between their prayer life and their actual life, if you know what I mean. So which means there was a lot of religiosity to it that actually does not have a proper relationship. I knew people, I grew up with knowing people who will spend hours, you know, killing demons in one tree or the other. It was just chasing one demon here or there. It was always... Amy Igweonu: Yeah, but yeah. But I look at the live. So which means there was a lot of religious things today. Yeah. You know, demons in one tree or the other and just chasing one demon in here and there. They'll leave that place, they're casting out everyone, they're fighting with the devil. There's no change in their life, which but there's no relationship. There's it's not true prayer. Yeah. And there's no understanding of the word of God, you know. They are saying what you're saying. King James: They spend night vigils upon night vigils upon night vigils. They live that place. They're casting out everyone. They're fighting with their neighbors. There's no change in their life, which means prayer. They were doing prayer, but there's no relationship. There's no fellowship. It's not the true prayer like Jesus did. Yeah, so we are saying what you're saying and I agree 100 percent is that we need to make prayer again central but not that kind of prayer. No, we're talking about prayer where is about fellowship, where is about relationship, what is about you can actually ask God a question and you can hear him talk back to you. Amy Igweonu: No no no no no. Yeah, definitely. It's about relationship. It's not about ask God. Yes. You can hear him talk about it. Correct, correct. And so imagine if each person in the church has that relationship, that's understanding. Imagine what happens when we come together. It's like a match has been ignited and people just, you know, the the power of God just fills the room. So absolutely. King James: Amen. Amen. Is it possible we can see that a church that prays and not just pray religiously, a church that actually genuinely, genuinely raises a people who know how to spend time in God's presence? Yeah. So one practical, what would you give our audience as a practical? What? Let's end with that. ⁓ For someone who's genuinely watching this right now and saying, wow, this is really touching my heart. thought I knew about prayer, but now I understand prayer. And I want to develop the consistency in prayer. And I'm not persistent. And sometimes I pray today, I don't pray, you know, I'm not there all the time. What are the simple practices would you would advise them to begin with? Amy Igweonu: Yeah, I think we've covered a lot of it already. I think, you know, we've talked about the centrality of the word of God. You know, s study the word of God. When you're studying the word of God, start talking to God ⁓ through the studying of the word because prayer isn't necessarily like we've already said, it's not about needs, it's not about your own agenda, it's forming a relationship with Him. So form a relationship through His Word, set aside a time that always helps, but then learn to but let yeah, set aside the time. yeah, it's important because you know. King James: I was going to ask that. So is it important to have a fixed time? Amy Igweonu: Because God is a spirit and we can't see him, right? Let's face it. Sometimes when we're praying or setting aside time to talk to God, we drift. We drift. There are distractions. When you set aside a time where no one can disturb you, remember the scripture we read that when you're praying, go into your secret chamber. God also knows we get easily distracted. So he wants us to come away and and make time. So yeah, really important to have a routine. A prayer list. King James: Mm-hmm. What about a prayer list? And also a particular passage of scripture that helps guide our prayer. Is it important to fix those things? When I say fix, know, just as a starting, because we're talking about people who already are not doing it. If someone don't have a consistent prayer life, would you advise them to, number one, set aside the time? Amy Igweonu: When King James: and number two, if it helps you to do prayer lists. Again, I'm not, I just want to say, you can say no, do not do that. Amy Igweonu: You can say no. Yeah, the the prayer list. I d what do you mean by like write down a list of things you're gonna talk to God about? Yeah, it's possible. King James: Is, yeah, it's possible. Because some people don't, they, okay, yes, I need to talk to What do I talk to God about? They don't know what to talk to God about. So I think it would help. Again, it's just. Amy Igweonu: So I think for me, I don't know about lists because I don't go into prayer with a list of things I'm gonna go talk to God about. Sometimes there might be a thought in my head that God, this is going on and I need to need to talk to you about it. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think if back to what we were saying, if prayer is fellowship and it's communication and communion, and there's something vulnerable, there's some vulnerability in prayer, there's you know, ⁓ authenticity in prayer, so King James: I don't. Amy Igweonu: We come and we talk to God. Talk to him about your day. If you don't know what to talk to him about, talk to

him about your day. Talk to him about the scriptures you've read. The scriptures are quite central, like we've said, to prayer. Talk to him about, you know, what's in your heart and in your mind. Because the most important thing actually is get talking to him. Okay? So King James: Thank Okay. Another quick question. These are just some questions out of this one. What about destruction? How do you handle destruction? Amy Igweonu: Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah, personally for me, I think how I handle distraction and making sure I have that consistent time with God is to set aside time and do it at the same time every single day. And this is before the family, you know, wakes up. Because I have a 10 year old who, even with the time I've set aside, sometimes he bursts through the door. And while I'm praying, he starts talking to me. And I just turn to him, I say, I'm praying. King James: There you go. Amy Igweonu: You know, I check first of all what it is, and if it's not anything, you know, I can't sleep or I'm itching or whatever. I said, okay, very nicely, please just it is so and you have got into that place where I need that time with God. This is I I can't function without having that time. So even thinking that I'm losing minutes from that fell time of fellowship, I that just freaks me out, literally. So I just tell him, please just go back to And if it's you know, and this is why it needs to be early, isn't it? Because if if you leave it too late and other things get in the way, work and all of those things, then you know, you don't maximize that time. So yeah, it's really important. King James: Yeah. It's important. I think let me just use the opportunity to say this friends. There are some people who say, well, I pray quite a lot. But when you look at their prayer life, they're always in prayer groups. It's important friends that you need to have a private prayer time. OK? It's nothing wrong with joining this prayer group and that prayer group and this prayer Zoom and that prayer Zoom. Develop a personal time of prayer. Amy Igweonu: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah, of course. Yeah. King James: Prayer walks is one of them as well. Going to the woods or going to the park. Just go alone. Spend time with God. It's important. It helps with the distraction as well. ⁓ Yes. And then finally, it's consistent more important than the length of time. Amy Igweonu: Yeah. Go into the woods and going to the market. Yeah. Just go alone. Just have time with him alone. Yeah, definitely. It helps with the disruptions. Yeah, definitely. Yes. And then finally, his consistency more important. Consistency w the length of time is not what we're playing. No, consistency means regularity. Yeah. King James: consistency means you're talking to God regularly than you know what I prayed three hours yesterday so I'm not speaking to God again for the next 10 days Amy Igweonu: Yeah, I mean you wouldn't do that to your husband or your best friend. I mean, you want to talk to them every day. So Yeah, exactly. So, ⁓ you know, but the thing is, I wanted to link those two things you asked. So if you're consistent, ultimately I'm wearing Okay. Which one is more important? Consistency. Consistency or like ⁓ no, the consistency. And the good thing is that, you know, King James: You've been divorced. is I'm weighing two things. Which one is more important, consistency or length of time? Amy Igweonu: If you look at the Lord's Prayer, this is why I said the Lord's Prayer is a powerful template. There are a lot of hidden nuggets in there because actually Jesus straight away tells us that prayer is a daily thing. How do I know? He says, Give us this day our daily bread. He's talking about today. Means tomorrow you have to come again and ask him for bread. It's a daily practice, right? And then, of course, if we go into the New Testament, ⁓ the ⁓ Acts, the Apostles, and all of that, you know. King James: Yeah. Amy Igweonu: then you know that it's also something that we need to be consistent with, because not just consistent now. So apart from or in addition to setting time aside, Paul says pray without ceasing. How do you do that? Because throughout your day, so this is not just about daily, this is every moment. Sorry? King James: Mm. It's not just Paul. Jesus also wants us to do the same. I'm saying, yeah, the scripture says pray regularly. Amy Igweonu: Yeah. So so talk yeah, you're right. So but the gospels, you know, encourage us, the epistles encourage us to just talk to God throughout the day. But I think that setting time aside is so important because it keeps you from the distraction of the day, so yeah. King James: Okay, now, yeah, let's finish by you just, is any, what are, what's the one truth you want to look at the camera now and give our audience that you would want every believer to remember who was watching? What was that one thing that you would like everyone, every child of God to remember, to bear in mind, who's watched this podcast? Feel free to look at the camera and say. Amy Igweonu: Think ⁓ you know, I think is we've said a lot of things, but absolutely prioritize prayer. And it's also important to say that your prayer life, you don't develop a strong prayer life in one day. ⁓ as you fellowship with God, form a relationship, your prayer life grows. So if you haven't started, start today, be consistent and watch where God will take you. ⁓ so yeah, I think those were kind of the things that came to my heart, really. Yeah. King James: As good. Would you pray for us then? for those who are, you know, just pray as the Spirit leads you, but just pray for those who actually are struggling in this area of prayer, who maybe there are some people who don't know how to pray, some people who have not been taught to pray, and others who don't know how to pray in tongues but would like to, but don't even know the desire, have the desire. So just pray as the Spirit leads you. Amy Igweonu: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Mm. Yeah, Father, we want

to thank you with all of our hearts, Lord, for this absolute privilege to talk about prayer. God, something that is so close to your heart. God, you want your people to step into your presence, Father, to show us how much you love us. And so, Father, I just want to pray for your children who are listening to this podcast right now. God, you know where they're at. God, you know their hearts, you know their desires, you know their hunger. Father, I pray for the ones who are really hungry to know more of you, God, to spend more time with you in prayer. Father, I pray that you draw them close. Father, I pray that you begin to stare their hearts. So, God, even through this podcast, the things that they've heard, Lord, let there be such a staring that God, you empower them by your spirit to commit to spending time with you. And I thank you, Holy Spirit, for the precious gifts you've given us, the gift of tongues that we talked about. Lord, I pray for anyone that has this desire right now and doesn't have this gift right now, Lord. I pray for a fresh download and encounter, God. King James: Yes. Amy Igweonu: You want to give us your spirit. It's your desire for us to be filled with your spirit. I pray that you fill them right now, God, as they release their faith right now. Let them begin to speak in other tongues. Let them bust forth to God with a brand new tongue and begin to grow, Father, in this grace that you've so generously given us through the finished work of Jesus. I thank you tonight, Father, that you are stirring up a people of prayer. King James: Yes. Amy Igweonu: Lord, I'm praying for your church. I pray that your church will arise and recognize such a gift and a privilege and opportunity you've given us in prayer and begin to pray in unity. Lord, unite your church again in prayer. Let people begin to pray. Let them understand the importance. Let them begin to come together and truly begin to see your kingdom come and fulfill your agenda as they begin to cause your will to happen on earth as it is already in heaven. King James: Yes. Amy Igweonu: Thank you, Father, for what you're doing. You're reviving us again, Father, in this area. And we thank you for it in Jesus' name. Amen. King James: Mmm. Amen, amen. Thank you so much, Pastor Amy. That's powerful. Friends, I hope you've been blessed by this. I want to really, really encourage you. We're not doing this podcast just to be on air. That's not the purpose of this. This is genuinely, like I normally say in the beginning, this is a podcast designed to help us be like Jesus one step at a time. prayer is one of those ways we could be like Jesus. We cannot live like Jesus without praying like Jesus. So Jesus spent time in the presence of God, knowing his heart, understanding what he wants and doing what he wants. I believe that's what he wants us to do. So I trust God that this has been a blessing to you. Please like, share and subscribe to this channel and let us know what you think about this. What is your challenge you're dealing with in this area and what are the victories you also have in the area of prayer? Feel free to share whatever you want to share with us, but also share the video to others until we come your way next time. ⁓ Keep growing in love, keep helping people, keep supporting people, keep being there for others and keep praying with all your heart. Amy Igweonu: Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. King James: Develop that friendship and relationship with God. That's what he wants from you and wants from all of us. God bless you. Bye.