النص الكامل لحلقة Ep. 61 - The Kink Consultant Conversation with Amanda Dames

thing myself. 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:04.879 But the answer is an absolute yes. 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:08.960 Today's conversation goes way beyond leather and whips. 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:16.800 This week's guest is here to break down the universal psychology of trust, power dynamics, and boundaries. 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:36.159 By the end of this episode, we're going to walk away with a masterclass in radical self-honesty, deep communication strategies we can use in any relationship, and the inspiration to embrace our own desires with zero shame and a hundred percent confidence. 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:41.599 Get ready for real talk, zero judgment, and an incredibly fun ride. 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:47.599 I am so happy to welcome to Assortic Conversations the amazing Amanda Dames. 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:48.800 Hi, Amanda. 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:51.199 Hey, Helen, thank you for that. 00:03:51.360 --> 00:04:06.639 I was like, I need to steal that intro and like put it before any time I open my mouth because you really had me with if this sounds like it's not for you, like may yeah I understand that because I face that doing the work I do. 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:11.039 So many people think, oh, kink, I'm not kinky. 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:11.840 This isn't for me. 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:22.160 And then we even just get 10 seconds into a conversation and I've got them hooked, and they're realizing, oh, maybe I do have a few fantasies or I do imagine certain things. 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:23.680 So I'm so excited to be here. 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:25.839 Well, I thanks for taking the time. 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:29.360 When you originally reached out to me, that was my initial reaction. 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:31.759 I was like, oh, I don't know. 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:33.920 I don't know if this is for the audience. 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:55.519 But I think the fact that where you're at now started kind of as a moonlighting job while you were burning through corporate ladders, you know, in your in your day job and in corporate marketing, it just, you know, it kind of speaks to, okay, this was the side hustle, or, you know, it is something she's passionate about. 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:58.959 Now you've turned it into a full-fledged coaching business. 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:02.399 So, and relate, you know, relationship coach business. 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:27.120 So yeah, that when I when I looked at it through that lens, I was like, oh yeah, I think people would definitely, you know, get something out of this and be interested in learning more about it because there are aspects of what you do, even if it's not the kink part of it, but there are aspects of what you've learned and what you coach people on that we can apply, you know, in our own personal relationship. 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:29.759 So that's what I'm eager to dig into. 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:34.079 But yeah, you know, I have to ask, you were a dominatrix at one point. 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:36.240 So I do want to hear some stories. 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:37.920 Oh, absolutely. 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:40.720 So you you're a hundred percent right. 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:48.319 I was trying to climb the corporate ladder in America, and I had this great job, amazing health insurance. 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:50.639 Wasn't necessarily making rent. 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:54.160 Or, you know, I could make rent, but I wasn't living life in New York City. 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:58.959 I wanted to go to the fancy restaurants, I wanted to experience the Broadway shows. 00:05:59.120 --> 00:05:59.360 Yeah. 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:01.600 But that required a slightly higher budget. 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:06.879 So I got a second job as a pro dom in a dungeon. 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:08.879 I've always been kinky. 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:17.519 Like I've known from a young age I had this interest or weird obsession with punishment and spanking, not being punished myself, would never want that. 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:20.319 But if a friend was getting punished, I wanted to hear all about it. 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:21.360 Like, why'd you get in trouble? 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:22.000 What did you do? 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:22.800 What happened? 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:25.600 And I'd get excited by hearing their stories. 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:26.879 So think of that. 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:28.720 Like, I'm knowing this from five years old. 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:33.439 I already feel like such a weirdo because I don't know why I care about this and nobody else cares. 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:37.680 And then, like, we're talking less than 20 years later from that point. 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:45.519 I find out, I find myself interviewing to work at a dungeon, like through a job I found on Craigslist. 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:46.720 Wait a minute. 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:52.319 From from five years old to I'm assuming mid-20s, what happened? 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:56.240 Like, how did how did you either nurture it or so much? 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:56.800 Okay. 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:00.879 So I'm gonna, the quick thing, let's jump ahead to when I'm 13 years old. 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:08.000 I've been fantasizing about like making up different scenarios in my head where I'm punishing someone or I'm getting in trouble for some reason. 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:09.439 I'm 13. 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:18.959 I'm watching like the late night TV shows, and there's this documentary style show, and there's this couple, and they're both submissive. 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:25.920 So they go to a dominatrix to have their needs met because they're both submissive and they want to go to someone to dominate them. 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:28.639 And everything clicked for me in that moment. 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:32.000 I realized everything I'm obsessing over is sexual. 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:38.399 When I'm 18, I will just go to a dominatrix and she will do the things I've been

thinking about and life will be normal. 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:43.279 It didn't occur to me I could even have it in my real personal life at 13, uh-huh. 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:51.120 But then slow, like by the next year, I got my first boyfriend, I got him to spank me, and like the idea of a dominatrix was far in the back of my head. 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:52.480 I did not think anything of it. 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:55.519 I was like, okay, I don't need this. 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.079 I like, I'll find it in my personal life. 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:14.319 And then there was actually a long period of time still being very embarrassed and ashamed of my desires and not being able to talk to my partners, my different boyfriends, about what I wanted without feeling stupid, weird, like a burden. 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:20.240 And then I moved to New York City and I knew the job of being a dominatrix existed. 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:32.480 I'd actually read a book about a woman who had done it, and the opportunity, I just thought it's the most understandable feeling to think, oh, I want to do like I'm anonymous in New York City. 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:37.279 I can do and be whoever I want, and let me dip my toes into being a dominatrix. 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:50.080 So I took I took that job, was making really great money, and for the first time in my life, deeply exploring every nook and cranny that comes along with feeling kinky, right? 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:50.720 Uh-huh. 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:52.799 Kinky is a spectrum, right? 00:08:53.039 --> 00:09:02.480 I'm like, if you talk to other really kinky people, and you know, they might follow me on social media or listen to my podcast, but they think, oh, this girl's barely kinky at all. 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:11.360 And my point is exactly, I can barely be kinky at all and still have issues talking to my partner about it and have struggled with it and now want to help other people with it. 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:13.360 And that's what happened at the dungeon. 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:25.120 Like, my mind and world in kink expanded exponentially because I learned so much about what people's different interests were in things I would never have thought to Google. 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:30.320 Clients would come in and ask for it, and then I'd have to like learn how to do it on the job and provide it. 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:42.559 So, what was a side hustle was actually like my college education in kink and BDSM that set me up for the career I have now that I never knew I would ever want. 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:43.200 Uh-huh. 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:44.320 Right. 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.200 So I know you want stories. 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:50.240 So I'm gonna Well, I I I have questions. 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:52.639 I have actually I have a lot of questions. 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:59.840 So by day, you have you're doing, you know, everything everybody else around you is doing. 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:08.480 By night, you are secretly trying to reconcile what's been going on in your head and your heart for years. 00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:09.120 Yeah. 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:09.840 Correct? 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:22.799 So, how did you work up the confidence to go apply to be a dominatrix when it was just something that had been very abstract in your head? 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:26.480 I am too dumb to worry about confidence. 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:27.679 Do you know what I mean? 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:30.639 Like, I didn't even know I needed to be confident. 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:38.799 I was just so curious, and that leads me in so many different directions because I'm not thinking I have to be any type of way. 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:48.799 I go in with this learner mentality of have you ever heard that thing where people describe themselves by their job or their education or whatever they put value in, right? 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:49.120 Yeah. 00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:52.080 If you strip all of that away, how do you describe yourself? 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:54.000 Yeah, I realized I'm a learner. 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:55.679 I am so curious. 00:10:55.919 --> 00:11:00.399 And I the baseline version of me just wants to know why, know how. 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:02.480 So I didn't even think about being confident. 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:04.639 I was, I just wanted in the doors. 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:06.639 I wanted to see what it was gonna be like. 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:09.279 That it never occurred to me I'd have to be good at it. 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:10.879 I just wanted to try it. 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:15.519 How did how did you get past the the the the stigma? 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:18.639 You know, maybe maybe confidence was the wrong word. 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:20.799 How did you get past the stigma of it? 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:29.759 No, the more interesting thing is like that question brings something up in my chest because I am not past the stigma of it now. 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:30.559 Oh wow. 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:39.440 I think I am on a crusade to destigmatize kink because I'm tired of the stigma that I still feel sometimes too. 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:44.399 And what I mean is I kept it secret for a reason. 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:53.360 I didn't want to I kept it secret because you can't tell people you're into this stuff, at least not publicly. 00:11:53.519 --> 00:12:00.159 This was a time where, yes, 50 Shades of Grey, the book had come out, but the movies hadn't even come out yet, right? 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.840 Kink and BDSM still had a terrible they do now as well. 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:11.039 Like I'm learning being in the Midwest after living in New York City and Vegas, that kink is still this scary thing. 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:15.120 People think, oh, everyone into kink and BDSM has a messed up head. 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:15.519 Yeah. 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:19.120 So at the time, I think I thought I did

have a messed up head. 00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:25.279 I was I believed that, oh, I'm into these things, so something must be wrong with me. 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:32.320 It was a self-acceptance of something's wrong with me, but I don't have enough answers, so let me keep going forward and get answers. 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:33.360 Okay, interesting. 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:33.759 Yeah. 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:38.639 So that was, I think, where the confidence and getting past the stigma came from. 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:45.120 I used to be embarrassed when people called me a weirdo, which happened a lot growing up in Ireland, to be honest. 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:49.679 But it and eventually you're just like, okay, I'm a weirdo in New York City. 00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:51.679 And if you look around, everyone's kind of weird. 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:54.240 And that gave that gave me permission. 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.720 So I think what got me past the stigma was being in New York City where everyone is so individual. 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:07.759 And I recently said to someone about being in Kansas City and it being very different from New York or Vegas. 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:09.039 And they made a joke. 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:12.559 They were like, yeah, that's because all of the interesting people went to New York and Vegas. 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:15.279 So that's why it's so different in Kansas City. 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:16.799 And I sometimes feel that. 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:21.360 So I don't know if I would have been as brave if I lived in Kansas City going for something like that. 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:28.559 I never would have done it in Ireland, a small where I grew up, a small country where people are quite judgy. 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:30.639 So, or at least they were at the time. 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:33.039 I think it's changed a lot and grown a lot. 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:39.840 But I know that I would not have been as confident or willing to go work in a dungeon in Dublin as I was in New York City. 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:41.039 It was the anonymity. 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:47.360 And unless you've lived in Manhattan, I think that you don't fully understand the power of moving somewhere. 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:48.480 No one knows you. 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:52.399 And you could leave the next year and no one will remember you were there anyway. 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:53.440 That's New York. 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:54.799 And it allowed me to have it. 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:56.320 So I think the answer is probably New York. 00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:57.519 We got there in the end, Helen. 00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:58.480 We got to answer. 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:00.480 New York City is why. 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:00.960 Yeah. 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:02.399 Oh, that's funny. 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:06.000 So, God, I don't even know what to ask you. 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:08.559 It's like, did they have it on boarding program? 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:09.919 What was day one like? 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:11.679 This is a great, okay. 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:14.399 So day interview day, right? 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:20.320 I show up and I am nervous in the interview because I feel like I'm gonna be judged and told I'm an idiot and not cut out for it. 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.799 And that's rejection, no matter what form you receive rejection in, is not fun. 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:29.519 To be told you're not enough to be here, so we don't want you here would have killed me. 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:33.360 It turns out the bar for being a dominatrix is low. 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:36.000 Like it's you gotta just look presentable. 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:39.360 And I don't even mean you have to look drop dead gorgeous. 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:46.480 You literally just to, you need to look dressed and like you know how to put yourself together and you need to be able to talk to people. 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:51.840 So the manager working was particularly difficult to talk to. 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:54.879 She was kind of mean in the interview. 00:14:55.120 --> 00:15:00.879 When you got to know her, she was just, she was actually lovely and the most protective woman you could even imagine. 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:05.200 She was a mama bear through and through, but until you're in her circle, you're a threat. 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.840 So she was a mama bear protecting her cubs who were the DOMs working there. 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:11.600 And I was an outsider. 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:13.120 So she didn't look at me. 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:20.799 She literally was looking at monitors where they have street cameras to make sure it's safe and they can watch who's coming and going. 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:23.919 And I I was out to impress. 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:24.879 So I tried to explain. 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.320 I'm kinky, I'm submissive, but I think I know what it takes to be a Dom. 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:30.000 I'm involved in the local community. 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:31.759 I go to kink parties. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:35.600 And, you know, it was basically like, okay, this woman's not an idiot. 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:40.240 She fully understands what kink is, which is more than a lot of other people who interview. 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:43.759 And the job she was basically, okay, when can you start? 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:45.360 What shifts do you want? 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:53.440 You choose the shifts, but you either have to be here 11 to 6 or 5 to 1 a.m., something like that, right? 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:56.080 And I was like, I can't be here at five. 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:57.519 I finished my other job at five. 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:04.240 And she's like, she rolled her eyes, she was like, fine, you can come at 5:30, but don't tell anyone we're letting you do that. 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:06.240 So there was flexibility in it. 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:11.840 So I show up on day one,

and yeah, I'm definitely nervous because I'm like, what if I suck at this? 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:13.039 Like, that's when it hits me. 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:15.759 I'm like, oh, I could be terrible at this, or what did I get myself? 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:17.679 Yeah. 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:20.879 And I finish my job at the Wall Street Journal. 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:26.159 I would close my laptop and I literally just run down the 10 blocks because I don't want to be late on my first day. 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:29.600 Run down the 10 blocks to where the dungeon is. 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.399 And I walk in and it's a different manager. 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:34.240 And this woman could not have been nicer. 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:38.000 She looks me up and down and she says, Oh, I like how you're dressed. 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.720 You've got a whole like step for Dom thing going on. 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:48.080 Cause I was dressed for corporate America in this little like dress with a thin belt at the waist, which was all the rage in 2013. 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:49.679 Like, that's how you dressed. 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:54.480 And she gave me confidence in being like, I felt like I could carve out my own little place. 00:16:54.879 --> 00:17:02.320 But as for training on the job, you all of the other women you were working with were your competition. 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:07.359 You only got paid if you got a session and you were competing with other women for the same session. 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:13.839 So you had to basically ingratiate yourself into their little community and convince them to teach you. 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:25.599 And it helped them to teach you because then our dungeon is known as a good dungeon where everyone's smart and no matter who you get, they're going to know how to do a session with you. 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:28.480 So more men come because it's a trustworthy place. 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:33.440 But at the same time, they don't want to teach you too much in case you get a session over them. 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.599 So it's you are fighting to learn and you have to be curious. 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.680 If you're just there thinking your looks are going to get you by, that is false. 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:42.160 Okay. 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:47.599 So you have to find out what sessions people are going into and say, like, oh, hey, can I get a tip in? 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.519 Because you never want to give a man something free. 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:54.240 You can't show up for free in the session because then he's getting a woman for free. 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:58.319 And that is the economies are not there when someone's walking in. 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:00.480 So you ask to tip in and learn. 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.119 So you get$20 for showing up for 10 minutes. 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:07.200 And in that 10 minutes, you're taught something new and you build on your skill set. 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:10.480 So that happens over months, not day one. 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:12.960 So okay. 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:18.720 And please, no disrespect intended to you or anybody else that works in dungeons. 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:25.039 But is it legalized prostitution? 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:26.559 Oh, there's no sex. 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:27.119 Okay. 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:27.680 Yes. 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:29.680 So we don't have sex with clients. 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:36.960 In fact, there are a lot of laws, and I'm not saying people didn't break these specific laws, but there is no sex at a dungeon. 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:42.880 If you are expecting to go to a dungeon and pay someone extra money to have sex with you, you are about to be sorely disappointed. 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.359 No one is going to have sex with you for that reason. 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:47.279 It's illegal to do so. 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.799 What were folks going to the dungeon for? 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:55.680 You were paying money basically to role play, to be in a headspace. 00:18:55.839 --> 00:19:00.000 Like I had clients pay me just to spank them and tell them they were bad. 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:02.799 I had clients who wanted me to pretend to be their babysitter. 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:09.039 I had clients who just wanted to talk about their fantasies because they didn't feel accepted in their relationship. 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:14.160 Their spouse knew they had it, but they were like, no, I'm not doing that with you. 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:17.359 And for a lot of people, it is a need. 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:24.880 Not everyone, but you know, for the ones who were like, I need this or else I don't feel like fully, yes, they don't feel whole. 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:33.440 So they would come and they would, yes, they might masturbate at the end of a session, but I wasn't masturbating them for, you know, I wasn't touching them. 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:36.720 In fact, here's where the legality got questionable. 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:38.480 You couldn't exchange body fluids. 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:44.240 So if a man wanted you to spit in his mouth, which is a common request, that's illegal. 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:46.559 They want to feel degraded, right? 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.160 So you can't exchange body fluids. 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.640 I think you could spit on someone, just not in their mouth. 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:51.119 Okay. 00:19:51.599 --> 00:20:03.279 The majority of my clients are heterosexual couples who are married 20 years, 15 years, and just want to introduce they don't want to go to a dominatrix. 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:04.720 I basically did that job. 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:07.839 And now my clients are the people who are like, I've done the dominatrix thing. 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:09.039 I don't want to go to them anymore. 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:10.720 I want to explore this with my wife. 00:20:11.039 -->

00:20:11.519 Yeah. 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:12.079 Yeah. 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:20.720 Now, for you, through through the dungeon experience and your journey, what did you learn about you? 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:32.559 And what did you learn about other folks that either, you know, made you feel more comfortable in your own space, you know, with everything that you had been carrying with you? 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:33.759 I guess let's start there. 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.200 What did you learn about you that put you more at ease? 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:42.720 You know, I don't think I was, I was 24 and 20. 00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:45.519 I worked there for two years, from 24 to like 26. 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:53.279 And I don't think I fully paid attention to what I was learning or I wasn't applying it to my own life. 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:56.640 Like the lessons I learned didn't really click until years later. 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:03.599 So the number one thing that sticks with me to this day, and I hear it in a different version in my role as a coach now. 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:08.720 Men would come to me and they would say, I married the person I was supposed to marry. 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.640 I didn't know I could have this in my marriage or in my personal life. 00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:21.599 They essentially meant they married the trophy wife, the person who looked good on paper and never thought about their own pleasure and desires in the bedroom because they were on a track. 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.759 They were going to climb the ladder in corporate America. 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:28.480 And these were men who made high six-figure salaries with a seven-figure bonus in New York City. 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:29.680 They were millionaires. 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:40.160 They had the wife that looked good at the corporate dinners, and I'm sure she was lovely, but she definitely did not share his interest in kink or BDSM. 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.319 And he was pushing it down for so long. 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.839 So then he would come to the dungeon and he would seek it out and he would enjoy it. 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:47.839 And he'd feel good that he got to experience it. 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:50.160 And then he'd go home to his wonderful life. 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.559 That honestly, at the time, I was quite jealous of. 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:54.640 I had no empathy for these men. 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:56.480 I thought your life is perfect. 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:57.440 Boo-hoo. 00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.680 You don't have this thing that you could have asked for earlier. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.359 In your life, but you didn't. 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:01.839 Right. 00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:03.599 I have a lot more empathy now. 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:13.599 But I remember thinking, okay, Amanda, the number one thing is you cannot end up with someone who's not kinky, or else you'll be unhappy like these people are. 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:23.440 So, and I noticed that if you don't have this part in your life, it becomes a larger portion of the pie in your head. 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:25.759 So these people had everything. 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:30.079 In my 24-year-old's eyes, I was like, oh, you're where I want to be. 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:35.039 But they didn't have kink, they didn't have the intimacy they wanted in their relationship. 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:41.519 And that became a huge thought in their head, even though we all say, Oh, sex isn't that important. 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.079 You barely have sex 20 years into a marriage. 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:50.720 But I'll tell you, it better be good then, because if you're only doing it once every three months, you want it to be great. 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:54.559 So, my what I learned was, okay, prioritize this. 00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:55.279 It matters. 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:58.240 Intimacy and connect sexual connection is important. 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:06.559 But I don't think I fully understood how, why, or what it looked like to be prioritized in a safe, healthy way until years later. 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:22.960 And even now that I work with couples and I help them introduce this in their marriage 15 or 20 years in, I see the nuance of what it means to prioritize it in a health and safe way, healthy and safe way, because you can't be obsessive about it. 00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:31.759 You can't always be talking to your partner about it, even though what's happening is couples, when they when the person doesn't have it, it becomes a larger piece of the pie. 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:36.960 So they obsess over it as opposed to just getting it once a month and not thinking about it the rest of the month. 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:39.920 So I learned, okay, this is important for me. 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:40.799 I need to go after it. 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:43.759 But I don't think I learned how to do that safely and well. 00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:49.359 I was just sort of dating a bunch and throwing this out there as opposed to being intentional. 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:53.519 And what I learned about myself was it's okay to want these things. 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:54.960 In fact, it's normal. 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:58.160 The most dangerous thing is to not embrace it. 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:04.240 So I started to just be more I embraced it, I just didn't understand how to share it at the time. 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:05.200 Does that make sense? 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:21.440 Like I embraced it, I accepted myself doing that work, but to my point of still being feeling the stigma, yeah, it took a long time for me to truly be okay with telling people who weren't my partner about it. 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:23.680 No, I mean about being kinky. 00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:24.079 You know? 00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:24.400 Yeah. 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:32.960 I know I could, I completely, I, I completely understand

that because again, like I said, when you approached me, I was like, gee, I don't know. 00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:42.640 I this is might be a little off-brand for me, but you know, I was kind of fascinated by your journey and and by where you are now. 00:24:43.039 --> 00:25:01.359 And, you know, it's it's kind of how you got there and what drove you, not so much, you know, what you're doing now, because what you're doing now is you're taking all of that knowledge, all of that understanding of things that people just stuff down for years and never talk about. 00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:17.519 You actually rolled up your sleeves and weeded through the crap to figure it out so that you can actually, you know, get the diamonds in the rough and bring those into couples' relationships to help their relationships get stronger. 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.799 You know, it it's education, it's acceptance. 00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:26.079 And that's what I truly loved about your story when we, you know, when we first started talking. 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.559 And that's what got me over the stigma of, oh, I don't know. 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:32.960 I don't know if we should talk about kink. 00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:41.039 But, you know, what what you've done through that, I think is is really valuable and really important for the people that you work with. 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:43.920 And it's it's also, you know, again, educating me. 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:49.039 I, you know, like I told you before we were on mic, I have the sense of humor of a 12-year-old boy. 00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:52.400 I've had to mute my mic a couple times to keep from giggling. 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:55.119 But you're you're also educating me. 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:57.279 And, you know, life is life is a journey. 00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:00.240 If you stop learning, to me, you stop living. 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.319 So that's how I feel. 00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:04.319 And kink is about curiosity. 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:17.119 But I on this point, I agree with you completely because as I said, I talk about all of these things, but my own life, compared to many kinksters, actually looks very vanilla, right? 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:18.559 Because I'm with a partner. 00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:20.559 We live a very boring normal life. 00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:22.480 We do not have look at my office. 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:29.039 It's it's my office is pink and full of color, and there's no like whips and chains and leather. 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.079 Because you can explore this, it's a spectrum, right? 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:32.400 Yeah. 00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:36.799 And my work at the dungeon took me deep down paths where I learned everything. 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.680 So now I said it was like a college education. 00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:48.079 You can bring almost any kink up to me, and I might call it something different, but I've experienced it or engaged with it in some type of way already. 00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:54.480 So there is nothing anyone can bring me that shocks me or that I would judge because I'm familiar with it. 00:26:54.640 --> 00:27:02.960 But the way I live my life now and why I do this work is you can hear the word kink in BDSM, and I want people to understand it's a spectrum. 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:08.319 It literally could just mean being tied up during sex or even having your hands held above you. 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:14.319 Or I don't know if you've heard this, but have you ever heard a woman say, I just want him to take charge in the bedroom? 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.359 Yeah, I think I've actually even said it. 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:20.960 That is kink, right? 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:24.640 And I think they shy away from the word kink. 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:26.079 And I talk about this a lot. 00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.640 I actually wrote an article that no one would publish, but it says kink has a PR problem. 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:42.799 And I think that that's why if I describe to you, well, I just like when he tells me to get on the bed and be a certain way, and then he's a little rougher, but very loving too, and I trust him. 00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:44.480 That's kinky sex. 00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:51.359 And I think the thing that people don't realize is kink and fantasy and desire can look a bunch of different ways. 00:27:51.440 --> 00:28:01.519 And something I'm running into a lot as a coach is I meet men and women, and a lot of time the kinky partner coming is a man, and the non-kinky partner is a woman. 00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:03.440 I say, Well, what's your fantasy? 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:04.240 What's your desire? 00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:08.160 And she quickly says, I don't have one, I don't have a fantasy or a desire. 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.000 Yeah, that would have been my go-to. 00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:13.920 Because she's comparing it to her kinky partner, right? 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:16.799 And I'm like, no, you you must. 00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:31.839 And what I've noticed, and I'm pretty angry at society about this, is a lot of women's fantasy that they should get to live out is being wined and dined and taken on a helicopter ride and on a fancy date and made to feel like a princess. 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.759 That can be your fantasy. 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:36.799 It's a it can be your desire, and you deserve that. 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.279 But society tells you, oh, you're a gold digger if that's what you want. 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:52.000 And I think that people now shy away from even indulging or sharing that fantasy because they feel invalidated in wanting to be treated like a princess, and there's nothing wrong with it. 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:59.359 If you feel sexier, if you feel more cared about and taken care of by experiencing that fantasy, share it. 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:08.160 Because the equivalent might be your husband wanting you to be in laundry or your

partner wanting you to role-play a stranger who meets in a bar, right? 00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:12.960 And those kinks and fantasies and role plays are almost celebrated. 00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:14.720 Like, yes, go be adventurous. 00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:22.240 Why can't being wined, dined, and taken on a helicopter ride be just as celebrated as a fantasy you get to indulge? 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:22.559 Yeah. 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:23.839 That's what I want to know. 00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:24.480 Yeah. 00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:33.839 Well, and but I think you know, the word kink immediately denotes an image and an attitude and a darkness. 00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:40.400 I I don't think kink is associated with being light and romantic and pampering. 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:43.839 I I I think it's just the opposite. 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.960 So, you know, when you said, oh, that's kink too. 00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:51.359 I in my in my head, I'm like, no, it there's nothing kinky about that. 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:53.599 That's that's more romantic. 00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:57.680 And ro but romance can be your fantasy, right? 00:29:57.920 --> 00:29:58.160 Yeah. 00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:00.640 And it doesn't, you don't need to pretend. 00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:02.640 Here's the thing about kink, right? 00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:07.200 Do you know there's something called a praise kink of just being told, good girl, good job. 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:09.279 You're doing such a good job. 00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:15.920 And it could be something sexual, like you could be saying you're doing such a good job doing something sexual. 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:21.039 I'm mindful of your podcast listeners, but it also could be there's service submission. 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:30.640 And that's a kink where people get excited and disproportionately happy serving someone in ways that might include doing their taxes or doing their dishes for them. 00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:47.440 And there's a large debate on the internet right now about something called a trad wife, a traditional wife who's gone back to more of the I work and raise the kids and stay at home, and you go out and you know, have a job that pays money and we have a balanced life. 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:58.240 There are a lot of people who are kinky out there saying, this is just the role play I live with my partner all the time because I do the dishes and we live in a 1950s style household, and that's a kink. 00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:07.839 So I really think intention does matter of whether something is kinky or not, but kink is not all pain and suffering and scary. 00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:13.759 It's a lot of love and cuddling and exploring fantasy with intention. 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:14.640 Yeah. 00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:15.920 Interesting. 00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:20.799 Uh, you know, you you you said kink is a spectrum. 00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:33.839 Walk us through kind of the, I don't want to say milestones, but you know, walk us through the different stages of the spectrum, starting with like probably the most innocuous. 00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:44.480 So you also have to think of it's not just the spectrum, but it's kind of like an overton window of this is what society deems as normal. 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:50.000 And everything in the overton window would not be considered kinky, and then everything outside of it is kinky. 00:31:50.079 --> 00:32:01.680 So there was a time in life where a blowjob would have been considered kinky, and now that's the thing teenagers do before they're ready to have sex. 00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:02.559 Do you know what I mean? 00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:06.799 It is no longer kinky, it's the precursor to sexual activity. 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:09.519 So it's kind of what society dictates. 00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:14.799 But just to I hate defining kink, but I'm gonna give a general overview. 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:21.440 It's any type of normalized sexual or erotic connection between two people. 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:26.000 Missionary sex is the the ex is non-kinky sex. 00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:28.640 It is also called vanilla when it's non-kinky. 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:30.640 Missionary, not kinky. 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:33.839 Blowjobs, no longer kinky, anal sex. 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.559 Questionable, is it kinky or not? 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:40.720 Because it's not a normal part of most people's sex lives. 00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:46.319 Now let's get into some of the intro to kink level things. 00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:49.440 Everything I'm gonna talk about is also in a spectrum. 00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:51.119 It could be very light to very hard. 00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:52.799 Let's talk impact play. 00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:59.440 Light impact play would be like a little spank during before sex, which a lot of us have experienced. 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:00.640 That's a little kinky. 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:09.680 It's not full-on kink, but that could go so hard as to be a wooden paddle that's used to leave bruises. 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:13.839 And that would be on the far end of the spectrum in impact play. 00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:22.880 But impact play as a whole is not considered extremely kinky because spanking is probably one of the most common versions of it. 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:25.599 Same with bondage. 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:32.799 Sometimes people, I would not recommend tying your partner up with a tie because a silk tie can actually get very tight and cut off circulation. 00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:37.680 But for the sake of argument, let's just say tying someone up in bed. 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:40.160 That might actually be a very beginner-level thing. 00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:44.880 Handcuffs, furry handcuffs, they sell them at like in the mall. 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:46.319 That could be kink. 00:33:46.480 --> 00:34:03.039 But it could also go to this extreme called shibari, which is a Japanese art form of tying rope around

people, and it can look quite beautiful and be very intricate and take a lot of time and take a lot of time learning how to do it, like thousands of hours to learn to do it. 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:04.720 That would be more intricate. 00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:08.639 So that's just each individual kink on a spectrum. 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:10.719 Now we can talk about BDSM. 00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:26.960 It can go from we're just gonna do this in the bedroom for a 30-minute scene where we talk dirty to each other, to high protocol, 24-7 lifestyle where you're constantly in your dynamic of one person being submissive and one person being dominant. 00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:29.840 However, that's still a role play. 00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:37.679 And I was used the example of if you and your Dom, like say I'm submissive and I am, and my partner is dominant, we show up to the hospital. 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:39.119 We're not in our roles. 00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:45.199 We're like two human beings who are partners with each other, showing up for an emergency, being like, this is the situation. 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:46.239 We're not in protocol. 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:51.280 So that's how I define it as being a role play, a very intricate, involved role play. 00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:52.719 But it can be bondage. 00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:55.519 I mean, BDSM is a scary term. 00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:58.559 But again, spectrum. 00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:05.920 There can be hardcore things like lots of heavy impact play, bruising, even cutting and extreme play. 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:16.559 But it can be as simple as a spanking because bondage or B stands for bondage, which I just gave the example of furry handcuffs all the way up to intricate bondage where you can't move. 00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:21.280 The D stands for discipline, right? 00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:26.800 And that could be a spanking or getting in trouble, which is my interest, but it also stands for dominance. 00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:39.360 And then that S stands for submission, which is a fun role play of power exchange, of just handing over power and playing with it and being like, you're in charge right now, you make all the decisions, and it can be fun and flirty or serious. 00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:44.800 And then the S also stands for sadism, where the M stands for masochism. 00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:50.320 So sadomasochism has quite an intense name about it. 00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:51.920 And I would say that's actually intense. 00:35:52.000 --> 00:36:01.119 And I would say sadomasochism is on the far end of the spectrum of causing a lot of pain, enjoying it, and the masochist enjoying receiving the pain. 00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:04.239 So that might be impact play that is on the extreme end. 00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:19.920 It might be emotional sadism where someone is humiliating you and making you feel bad, and you're an emotional masochist enjoying being humiliated or degraded, which to many people I know it sounds like, well, how could anybody be into that? 00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:20.239 Right. 00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:23.039 Sometimes we like to play with the taboo. 00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:29.440 We like to play with the idea that we're not smart or it's sometimes engaging in your biggest fear. 00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:35.199 For example, my biggest fear would be that I'm useless or worthless and that people found me invaluable. 00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:42.079 To play with that in your sex life in kink and just toy with it and see what it feels like to try that on. 00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:43.039 It's like acting. 00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:45.440 You get to try on that feeling. 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:52.079 I I would think as with anything, anything at all. 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:59.280 I mean, even outside the bedroom, too much of something you can start to cross lines. 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.800 Too much social media, you know, affects your mental health. 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:16.480 How you know you're playing with mental health aspects with some of the you know the the higher end of the spectrum BDSM activities. 00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:20.159 Like it's almost like you're playing with fire. 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.280 Where is the turnoff or turn on in that? 00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:29.679 So you are playing with fire, and living on the edge can be exciting for people, but here's how you keep it safe. 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:35.119 After a scene, after anything intense, you might have experienced. 00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:47.360 So there's a high overlap of people who are neurodivergent on the autism spectrum or ADHD, being interested in kink and BDSM for many reasons. 00:37:47.679 --> 00:38:03.039 Some are attracted to the high level of communication required before, during, and after a scene where everything's talked out and planned and fully discussed because that none of this happens without extreme negotiation and consent, right? 00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:07.760 And you can't have consent without talking about it and negotiating exactly how it's gonna go. 00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:10.639 Some people also enjoy the sensory side of it. 00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:20.159 They need that extra input because their dopamine levels, like their body's ability to uh create its own dopamine, are less, I guess, skilled. 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:21.840 So they need a dopamine hit. 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:29.280 And sometimes this type of play keeps their mind engaged, it keeps their attention, they're focused and makes them happy and spikes something in them. 00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:33.119 But then there's something called aftercare where you've spiked and you've been feeling good. 00:38:33.199 --> 00:38:36.559 You're on this emotional high having all of these experiences. 00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:39.679 You want to come down gently, and that's where aftercare comes in. 00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:44.239 After an intense scene, at the end of the day, you check in with each other, you're

like, How are you? 00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:45.280 What do you need? 00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:55.599 You're helping each other get back to baseline because you're not, no matter what it is, you're not 24-7 in this psychological role play to the point that you are changing who you are as a person. 00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:55.920 Right. 00:38:56.079 --> 00:39:00.000 And if we were to, if we were to see something like that, we would call it out in the community. 00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:09.199 Or even personally, if I had a client come to me like that, I would say, this has gone beyond normal role play because this person has lost the ability to say no. 00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:13.360 They no longer have executive function because they've handed it over so much. 00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:15.679 I have never seen that in my life. 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:16.639 Really? 00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:33.679 No, because the people who are going into this in an ethical, consensual way are not also the people who are looking for someone who is timid and just willing to do whatever they're told to do because there's also no fun in that. 00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:40.480 The type of person who goes after someone timid is an abuser, and that isn't in the kink world. 00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:43.440 So there's no consent, negotiation. 00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:44.880 That's abuse. 00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:50.239 And I think there is a large group of people who mistake BDSM and kink for abuse. 00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:58.400 But it all comes down to I always say this as long as it's consensual between adults and legal where you are, you're good to go. 00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:03.119 But in order for it to be consensual, there needs to be negotiation. 00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:05.760 And without negotiation, you don't have consent. 00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:07.679 So you're probably just being an asshole. 00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:10.320 And that's a nice way of saying you're being abusive, you know? 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:10.800 Yeah. 00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:11.280 Yeah. 00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:26.400 I mean, that the more we the more we get on to that topic, it it got me thinking, well, wow, this could really be harmful if the wrong people, the wrong couple get involved in this. 00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:38.800 And, you know, I always have the question in my head about the dominatrix or the the domineer, the dominant person and the submissive person. 00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:42.000 It's like, is that really their relationship roles? 00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:46.079 Or is it the opposite of what their true relationship is? 00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:50.000 And the kink is they get to experience something different. 00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:53.039 It's a lot of the kink of getting to experience something different. 00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:54.559 It's playing with roles. 00:40:54.800 --> 00:41:05.599 You're not wrong about the fact that it could get quite abusive, but in my experience, abusive people do not last in the kink

scene because they're immediately called out for not being consensual. 00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:11.119 And what I the where I see abuse most, I don't see it in my clients. 00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:16.159 I see uh clients talk to me about their ex-partners and how controlling they could be and different things like that. 00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:17.840 And it was never kinky at all. 00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:23.440 It was built on humiliation and degradation that wasn't consensual, wasn't asked for. 00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:26.400 In fact, it was just shaming to the person. 00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:30.719 There was no aftercare, there was no repairing what you had done. 00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:35.039 The thing about BDSM is it's there to hurt, not harm. 00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:36.639 Harm is long term. 00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:39.119 Harm is where you're messing with someone psychologically. 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:47.679 Hurt is, oh, you hurt my feelings, but you repair them and you don't get used to you can say no and you can stop it at any time. 00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:51.840 I think that's a major difference between kink and BDSM and abuse. 00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:54.159 Kink and BDSM, there are safe words. 00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:55.840 It stops the moment you say. 00:41:56.079 --> 00:41:58.800 A lot of people will say things like, well, the sub has all the power. 00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:05.599 And I don't fully believe that because it's a power exchange, but both people hold equal power in power exchange. 00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.000 They can stop it, they can hand it over. 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.920 In abusive relationships, one person really does have all the power to the point that they're scared to leave. 00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:20.000 Like one person's scared to leave because they truly believe that this other person holds all the power. 00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:27.119 And in Kink and BDSM, we are everyone enters it fully understanding the other person doesn't have all the power. 00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:27.679 Yeah. 00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:43.920 I think that's a huge distinction to make for folks that are curious, are you know possibly looking to reach out to you or possibly looking to bring this into their relationship? 00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:53.039 I think that is a huge distinction to make and that it is consensual, it is a conversation, and there's homework to do. 00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:53.840 Yes. 00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:55.599 There's homework to do. 00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:05.760 Understand what it is you're you're you're attempting to bring into the bedroom or what you're trying to explore together. 00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:20.960 So let's talk a little bit about how your kink experiences play into what you're currently doing now to help folks have deeper, more enriching relationships. 00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:26.000 So there's something that I want to call out that I don't I do talk about this. 00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:32.079 I think on in every conversation, I always like to mention there is a difference between a kink and a fetish. 00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:43.119 And while a fetish has a terrible name, because when you when you hear the word fetish or fetishist, you think murderer, someone who can't control their urges and they need to do it and it's often seedy. 00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:48.639 The only actual difference is a kink is a nice to have, a fetish is a need to have. 00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.519 So I actually have a punishment fetish. 00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:58.559 And all a fetish means is I need to think about it or experience it to achieve arousal. 00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:06.239 So Maybe I'm not being spanked before sex every time, but during sex, I'm imagining a scenario where I'm being punished. 00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.360 In and there are plenty of fetishes. 00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:19.280 There's balloon fetishes, hair fetish, foot fetish, smoking fetish, where people need to be thinking about this thing in order to achieve orgasm. 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:21.039 And some people are born with it. 00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:29.280 Some people, it develops later in life, maybe from a trauma or just creating this strong association between sexuality and the thing. 00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:40.400 Like there was a time in the 50s where nylon fetish was very common because young men saw nylons hanging in the bathroom and their first association was, oh, that's women, that's sex, that's the other sex. 00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:44.159 And they get obsessed with nylons and then they need, they have a nylon fetish. 00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:46.480 For me, I think I was born with my fetish. 00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:50.719 But I mentioned that because kink is a nice to have. 00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:52.880 It's nice, it spices things up in the bedroom. 00:44:52.960 --> 00:45:01.360 But if you are with a partner who is like, well, no, I need this, I really want it, I want a dirty talk about it, or I will fantasize about it to achieve arousal. 00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:04.320 You might have to look at, okay, is it a kink or is it a fetish? 00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:11.440 And there's nothing wrong with a fetish, but you have to understand if I'm not going to explore this with them, they're still going to be thinking about it. 00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:12.639 We're just not doing it together. 00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:15.440 I'm not saying they're going to run off to a dominatrix in a dungeon. 00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:17.119 They just might be fantasizing their head. 00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:21.119 For example, I had plenty of vanilla relationships with a non-kinky person. 00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:25.039 I didn't go pay a professional Dom to do it. 00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:26.719 I just was imagining it. 00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:38.079 So if your partner brings this up to you, I want you to realize, like, oh, this might just be something they want to try, or it might be something they're more deeply needing in order to achieve

arousal. 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:43.840 And I did create a free guide to help people navigate the conversation. 00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:45.599 So good. 00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:46.320 Yes. 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:59.199 It it makes it super easy for people because it's for both people and the couple, it's to explore your individual fantasies and share them with each other, but not just the fantasy itself, like being tied up with handcuffs. 00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:04.239 It goes beyond it to talk about what is the feeling you want to feel while you explore this. 00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:05.760 Is it that you want to feel bound? 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:17.119 If you do you want to feel like you're not in control and you reckon there's safety information in there of how to make sure you're doing it safely, but also how to understand the desire behind your partner's request. 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:23.360 And then the other part is ask your partner if they bring this up to you or if you're mentioning it to your partner. 00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:26.880 Let's just make it obvious how important it is to you. 00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:30.079 If this is something you definitely want, name it. 00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:32.079 Tell your partner this is important to me. 00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:32.960 I want to try it. 00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:38.000 Because you could also just be saying, Oh, this would be fun to try, and you wouldn't even think about it again. 00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:40.239 But if it's something important to you, make that clear. 00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:41.119 Yeah. 00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:41.840 Yeah. 00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:42.639 Yep. 00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:49.840 So my experience has taught me I've been the kinky person trying to work with a non-kinky person in relationship. 00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.159 I've been the less kinky person working through things in a relationship. 00:46:54.400 --> 00:47:04.159 I have experienced and taken part in so many kinks having worked at a dungeon that there's nothing people bring to me that I've haven't heard of or experienced before. 00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:17.280 So all of that has come together in me now helping guide people, introduce kink in their relationship and sort of bring it in in a sustainable way that feels safe for both people. 00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:18.719 Nice. 00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:19.280 Yeah. 00:47:19.519 --> 00:47:25.840 What what is what's the most common thing couples come to you for? 00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:35.519 So one of the most common things people come to me for is the husband is submissive and the wife is not kinky at all. 00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:38.239 And the husband wants to explore being submissive. 00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:48.400 And this is difficult for both people because men are told to be masculine and strong and never submit and that their job is to lead. 00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:56.239 So when they want to play with this role, a lot of women will be come will come to me and just say, that's

not how I was raised to believe men should be. 00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:58.239 So I'm actually disgusted by this. 00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:00.880 I think it's disgusting that he wants this. 00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:04.320 It sounds like he's addicted to sex or he's obsessive. 00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:06.639 And they actually start projecting a lot. 00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:10.480 And that causes more of a rift in the relationship than the kink itself. 00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:10.960 Okay. 00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:15.440 So I work with the wives to think, like, okay, why do you feel this way? 00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:17.599 Is it society or do you feel this? 00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:20.320 Like, okay, your marriage is important to you. 00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:23.679 Do you want to try this or do you is this a hard no? 00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:33.039 And we talk about limits and boundaries, but I have a disproportionate number of clients who come to me where the husband is submissive in some way or wants to play a submissive role. 00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:36.480 They want to put their wife to play the more dominant role. 00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:50.960 And it's causing such issues that I actually launched a free women's dominant group for women who want to learn to be more dominant, are scared of it, are kind of disgusted by it, but want to learn more. 00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:59.280 Where I bring different dominant women together to help teach these non-dominant women how to do it in their relationship. 00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:01.199 And I don't allow pros into the group. 00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:08.000 This isn't about becoming a professional, it's about experiencing it in your relationship because I just was seeing it so much. 00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:15.840 And I was like, women need extra support, whether that's wrapping their heads around it or just building the confidence to play the dominant role. 00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:19.599 Yeah, I was gonna ask, where where's the bigger challenge in that? 00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:21.920 Is it getting them to wrap their heads around it? 00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:28.000 Because I think for me, you know, I'm thinking, if I was in that situation, I'm not married anymore. 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:33.840 But if I if I was in that situation, my answer would probably be, no, I want you to take charge. 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:37.599 I take charge, you know, with the house, with everything else. 00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:41.119 So I think for me, the bigger challenge would be to accept it. 00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:44.559 Once I accepted it, yeah, I'm a good student. 00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:51.119 I can I can watch, listen, and learn and understand the motive behind the desire. 00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:55.760 But it's really getting over that hump of why is this even necessary? 00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:58.559 For me, just no, no, no. 00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:04.559 You just unlocked some other huge part of sessions that I don't actually talk about, my client sessions. 00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:11.119 A large reason women don't want to take charge is because they're like, I'm already carrying so much of that. 00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:13.039 Are you freaking kidding me? 00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:14.800 Now you want me to add this? 00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:20.000 And so much of it is working out with the husband. 00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:22.239 Hey, you gotta be picking up the slack here. 00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:24.719 What do you what do you mean you didn't take out the garbage? 00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:26.480 What do you mean the lawn is in mode? 00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:34.880 Like, you need to be holding up your end of the bargain or else they're going to feel your bedroom life is an extension of your home, your non-bedroom life. 00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:37.039 Yes, and that is not a turn-on. 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:46.079 So getting people to balance out their life outside of the kink and this is a huge part of it. 00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:50.800 So, yes, the acceptance, but also the life balance is important. 00:50:50.960 --> 00:51:12.480 And that that is a huge part of so many of my sessions of like getting this submissive husband, getting him to start paying attention to the parts of his life that he's been ignoring that make it harder for the wife to step up and be dominant in the bedroom as well as all the ways she's dominant in the home. 00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:13.119 Right. 00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:13.599 Right. 00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:14.000 Yeah. 00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:15.440 So you you nailed it. 00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:36.880 Like yeah, you put yourself right where most of my clients are, where they love their partner, they want their partner to be happy, they they want to make sure that, you know, when you choose a monogamous relationship, and I'm in a monogamous relationship, you have to recognize you're choosing each other, but you can't force your partner to be celibate. 00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:38.719 And I'm a firm believer of this. 00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:44.960 Sex is not a need, but then it becomes this question of but can you force someone to be celibate if you don't want sex? 00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:49.039 Can you force them to turn this part of themselves off because you don't want to do it? 00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:56.320 Or are you willing to try to see and make sure it's something you can't do before giving up on it completely? 00:51:56.639 --> 00:51:59.360 So, where do you see yourself going with this? 00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:01.440 What's next for you? 00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:03.199 Great question. 00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:08.400 I would love to make this more mainstream, this type of relationship dynamic. 00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:14.559 I think that a lot of people talk about high sex drive versus low sex drive, and not enough people are talking about mismatched desire. 00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:19.760 So, what's next for me is specifically talking about this at scale. 00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:21.360 I am trying

to get on podcasts. 00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.159 I'm trying to talk to therapy, couples therapy groups. 00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:24.400 Yeah. 00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:34.800 So if there are any therapists who want me to come speak to all of their couples, therapists about kink and fetish and desire, I have a lot to add to the conversation because I've lived it. 00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:38.000 It's not just a clinical look at it. 00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:52.800 I'm still on that mission to destigmatize it and just make people feel less alone because I want, if your husband comes to you and says, I'm submissive, I want to explore this, I don't want you to feel alone and dirty and like there's something wrong with him or you for indulging it. 00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:55.519 Like, let's normalize this, let's get this conversation out. 00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:03.199 You don't need to tell your friends at brunch on Saturday, but I don't want you feeling like there's something wrong with your relationship because you're doing it. 00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:04.239 And that's right. 00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:07.440 So my goal is to figure out how to do this at scale. 00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:14.159 I have online classes, I do, I give a lot of free information out on Instagram. 00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:21.119 I'm trying to do it myself every day, but doing it at scale and figuring out the best way to do that is my aim. 00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:25.840 And that's why I have the podcast too, because it's about getting the message out to as many places as possible. 00:53:26.079 --> 00:53:26.480 Yeah. 00:53:26.719 --> 00:53:29.920 So now, where can folks find you online? 00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:37.679 I would say start with if you are exploring kink and want to talk to your partner about it, download that free guide. 00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:41.199 And you can find that on my website at amandadames.com. 00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:47.840 If you scroll to the bottom, you can just fill out your email and get it sent straight to your email, that guide. 00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:54.000 If you want some more of that free information, go to the underscore kink consultant on Instagram. 00:53:54.239 --> 00:54:02.000 If you just are curious about kink in general, please check out my podcast, the Kink Consultant Podcast, where we go deep on every type of kink. 00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:10.400 I invite a bunch of guests on who explore different kinks and live different lifestyles with their partners so you can hear more about what it's actually like to live this life. 00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:11.840 And yeah, I think that's it. 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:16.000 Website, podcast, you can book consults on my website and Instagram. 00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:17.679 Yeah, those are all my places. 00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:18.559 Awesome. 00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:23.039 Well, Amanda, thank you so much for all of your time. 00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:25.840 I'm fascinated by what you've done. 00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:31.280 And I am very hopeful for what you're doing to help couples. 00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:36.079 I know in the the trying times that we live in, if it's not one thing, it's another. 00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:40.800 And, you know, it all kind of spills into the bedroom eventually. 00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:55.840 So to have a clearer understanding in an arena that is supposed to take away some of the stress and uck of day-to-day living is so important for relationship health. 00:54:56.079 --> 00:55:01.920 So thank you for what you do, and thank you for such a fun and interesting conversation. 00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:04.960 Well, thank you so much for taking a chance and having me on. 00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:08.239 I really appreciate it, and I've had so much fun chatting. 00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:18.559 Wow, that was more like a Kink 101 class. 00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:30.559 Amanda was so much fun to have a conversation with, and she was willing to entertain any types of questions to help destigmatize kink and educate folks. 00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:36.400 There are two things that stuck out to me about my conversation with her. 00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:40.800 One was my own personal interpretation of kink. 00:55:41.119 --> 00:55:47.360 It's very stereotypical, bondage, whips, leather, discipline, etc. 00:55:48.000 --> 00:56:05.440 And how she defined the spectrum or levels of kink, it really made me question why I thought of it only in one way, and that I didn't see behavior as mild all the way up to more intense. 00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:09.599 So that was a really interesting revelation for me. 00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:12.559 Let me know what you got out of our conversation. 00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:25.280 Another thing that stuck out was how much care and compassion she has for her clients for helping couples work through exploring kink in their relationships. 00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:32.559 Her goal is for both partners to be seen, heard, and feel stronger in their relationship. 00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:34.639 And I really admire that. 00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:39.840 So I know we barely scratched the surface on what Amanda could share. 00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:45.039 So jump down to the show notes to check out her podcast, The Kink Consultant. 00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:51.039 Visit her website and get her free guide to Kink, and follow her on Instagram. 00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:56.079 And while you're down in those show notes, don't forget to connect with me. 00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:59.199 All my socials are listed there as well. 00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:04.960 As always, thanks for listening, and I'll see you in two weeks.