النص الكامل لحلقة Redefining Return: What Investing Like a Mother Can Teach You About Wealth

00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:26.360 investments in innovation and digital transformation. So she is asking 37 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:31.159 a different question these days. What if investments were measured 38 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:35.560 not only by financial returns, but by the future they create. 39 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:38.479 Think on that and chew on that for a minute. 40 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:45.439 Through her work, she challenges the assumptions that shape how 41 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:50.199 we think about money, leadership, and value, inviting audiences to 42 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:56.319 consider a more expansive definition of return, one that includes 43 00:02:56.319 --> 00:03:00.639 our relationships, our communities, and the world we leave for 44 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:06.280 future generations. How about that her conversations inspire people to 45 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:10.879 see investing not simply as a financial act, but as 46 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:14.879 one of the most powerful ways we shape the future. 47 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:17.680 And boy, I tell you we need this in today's world. 48 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:21.360 Have you got anything to add to that, Tina. 49 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:25.639 That was a mouthful. I think you got it all well. 50 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:30.520 And you know, I was like last night, I was like, 51 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:33.240 I didn't get a chance to read the whole thing, 52 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:37.560 but I was flipping through and I've got different pages 53 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:41.719 down because all she's doing throughout this whole thing is 54 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:42.919 asking questions. 55 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:47.280 That's right, this is the right podcast for me. 56 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:51.159 Right, I know because she reached out to me and 57 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:53.960 so I was like, oh, I've got to get to 58 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:58.439 know this girl. So let's start kind of at the beginning. 59 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:03.120 You spent twenty years advising Fortune five hundred companies on 60 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:10.199 major technology and innovation investments, and what was it that 61 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:12.280 got you interested in that kind of world? 62 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.079 It's thank you for having me here. By the way, 63 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:19.319 I'm really excited to be a part of your show 64 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:22.839 because when I saw what your interests were and the 65 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:26.600 way you're kind of blending focus on kind of holistic 66 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:32.199 wellness and then the financial picture. It really does speak 67 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:36.199 to me. But yes, I'm naturally a very, very curious person. 68 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:40.600 And I entered the world of business right after graduating university. 69 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:44.839 I was working and I got my degree in English literature, 70 00:04:45.480

--> 00:04:47.800 which is funny, so I went straight in as a 71 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:51.240 they just I went in as a as a writer. 72 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:53.839 I was doing technical writing, so I was writing process 73 00:04:53.920 --> 00:05:00.000 documentation and policies for big corporations and so that took 74 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:03.319 me into a lot of it. So I was really 75 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:07.079 interviewing people about what their work was, and some of 76 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:09.879 that was from finance, some of it was in engineering, 77 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:13.439 some of it was in operations HR. So I really 78 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:17.160 got this kind of picture of how different parts of 79 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:19.319 the business work and the kind of brain that I have, 80 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:22.040 And it might sound boring for some people, but for me, 81 00:05:22.120 --> 00:05:24.480 it was a really delicious thing and to try to 82 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:27.040 understand how all of these things fit together, given that 83 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:31.120 I didn't have the background of education in that space. 84 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:37.720 And so I was there in the nineties when you know, 85 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:41.920 sort of desktop applications came in to support business processes 86 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:45.399 and all the data started to get integrated in enterprise 87 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:50.439 resource planning systems and things like that, and I naturally 88 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:52.759 was fascinated by that. And then I kind of moved 89 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:56.560 from listening to how people do their work to supporting 90 00:05:56.560 --> 00:06:00.600 them and doing it using you know, a keyboard and 91 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:03.720 amounts and a whole different kind of application. There. 92 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:05.680 Everybody was learning how to use those. 93 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:08.879 Things, that's right, and so that's where I sort of 94 00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:11.839 that's where I kind of cut my teeth. And then, 95 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:16.360 you know, throughout the evolution of data and digital, which 96 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:19.079 has been quite a ride, that's kept me really busy 97 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:21.680 and really fascinated. And also, as I said, sort of 98 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:25.839 working in all these different realms of business, seeing how 99 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:28.959 different people did their work was really interesting to me. 100 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:35.279 Well, what's what's fascinating to me is you. I had 101 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:40.040 a Tina. No one who's ever asked me these kinds 102 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:43.680 of questions, and you know, I've been in the I've 103 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:47.120 been doing advising and wealth management for twenty five years. 104 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:53.399 So when when you surfaced, I was like, she's

talking 105 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:59.000 about in a completely different way, and I understand the 106 00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:02.480 English back because you're talking about a different way to 107 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:06.720 define things. So was there in a moment or was 108 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:10.519 there some kind of experience where you were starting to 109 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:14.240 frame a different way to define what a return was. 110 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:19.560 I think you kind of hit it in like the 111 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:22.920 way that my curiosity manifests, and let me understand that 112 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:25.160 and what's behind that. I'm kind of a digger, I'm 113 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:27.639 kind of an excavator of what's at the heart of 114 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:31.120 that and what's behind that. And so it was really 115 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:35.000 a series of moments and observations over time, because I 116 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:38.519 had a perspective earlier, and so I did have a 117 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:41.879 short stint as an investment advisor, as you say, kind 118 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:47.240 of in between my initial technical writing work and my 119 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:52.079 later management consulting work. So I had that perspective, and 120 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:57.319 then I was often in conference rooms with leaders that 121 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:02.279 I really admired and appreciate, shiated who I was watching 122 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:08.560 them consistently being Ah, these were like people that care 123 00:08:08.839 --> 00:08:11.759 about the future, that care about the environment, that care 124 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:14.160 about their employees, that care about their communities. 125 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:16.160 Well, and they're successful people. 126 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:21.079 And they're successful people, yes, but I kept seeing the 127 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:26.480 impact of this kind of unrelenting pressure to serve these 128 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:33.000 financial market performance targets quarterly and these leaders I'm watching them, 129 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:36.000 how you know, being this tension of having to override 130 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:38.159 what they really believe is the best way to do 131 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:42.840 this to the best way to run the business, uh, 132 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:45.600 but then having to not do it that way, having 133 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:48.759 instead of having to make these compromises away from what 134 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.559 they think is right in the long term. And it 135 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:58.279 was It was those kinds of moments and I have 136 00:08:58.440 --> 00:08:59.960 I mean, I could tell you a story after story 137 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:04.759 after story, and very recently same story of this is 138 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:08.440 not something that I feel like serves the long term 139 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:12.320 viability and success of the business, but it's something that 140 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:14.240 I have to do or I won't be here next 141 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:18.080 year to make a decision. And so I remember thinking 142 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:23.159 investors don't realize this. You know, we're kind of encouraged 143 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:25.879 as from the investor point of view, not to not 144 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:29.399 to really delve into too much of that. It's like 145 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:32.279 a lot of times we're kind of investing in indexes 146 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:34.960 these days, or we're trying to do you know, we're 147 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:39.679 kind of handing off the responsibility because sometimes it feels 148 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.240 like that that realm is quite complex. So it's like 149 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:46.279 they don't I kept thinking, people who are investing don't 150 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.480 know that this is what it's you know, this is 151 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:50.759 the result of it, or this is an impact of it. 152 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:55.799 Right, Well, there's no way I mean, you know, in 153 00:09:55.879 --> 00:10:01.240 our case, we're we're we're investing globally all over the world, 154 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:05.279 thousands and thousands and thousands of companies. There's no way 155 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:09.000 you could know what would be the impact of any 156 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:10.399 one particular investment. 157 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.960 That's that's right. And I think that we've gotten into 158 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:19.120 that space because you know, we're trying to manage and 159 00:10:19.399 --> 00:10:22.799 I say, like i'd say from the financial advisor point 160 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:25.480 of view, there's there's a couple of different pieces, but 161 00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:29.159 you're trying to manage risk for your clients, and part 162 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:31.679 of the way you do that is by being diversified. 163 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:35.919 And so there's this kind of abstraction, this distancing from 164 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:39.639 what the money is actually you know, participating in what 165 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:48.240 is it actually funding in operations of these large, large, 166 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:50.960 large corporations now so many of them are bigger than 167 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:54.039 most countries, grow statistic problems. 168 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:56.519 I mean, it could be they could be really good things, 169 00:10:57.399 --> 00:11:01.679 they could be really bad things. There's really no way 170 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:06.320 to know, you know, there's it would It's like I 171 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:09.240 don't As I was thinking about that, I was actually, 172 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:11.919 you know, just contemplating this last night and just going 173 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:15.799

how much time would it take? And so we're gonna 174 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:17.759 I mean, we're going to get into this because this 175 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:21.919 is like bending your mind around different way to look 176 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:28.120 at this. Let me ask you, so you were driven 177 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.759 then by all of these questions that you're having to 178 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:35.519 write this book? Yes, uh, where did that? Where did 179 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:38.960 that title? Invest like a Mother? I mean, because then 180 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:42.200 you've got a definition of what a mother is. 181 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:46.600 Yeah. Well, okay, So part of the fun of invest 182 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:48.200 like a Mother is that I thought it was a 183 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:50.960 little bit of a catchy title. But the but the 184 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:55.679 the other piece about it is that it's a bit 185 00:11:55.759 --> 00:12:00.440 of a relooking, a reclaiming, a coming back to how 186 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:07.120 we're using the term investment. If if like if if 187 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:11.080 I say I'm invested in my team and the success 188 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:15.039 of my child and my community, I'm invested in it, nobody, 189 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:20.679 everybody understands what I'm saying is I'm devoted to stewardship 190 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:23.039 of this, tending that's taking care of this That's a 191 00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:27.399 bit of a maternal I mean, obviously everybody's got this capacity. 192 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:29.639 So I'm not really just trying to be gendered about it. 193 00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:32.360 I'm more was kind of trying to reconnect people with 194 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:39.200 the devotional aspect of investing, of being invested in in 195 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:44.519 a future, in the growth of something, and and and 196 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:47.240 for mom, for mothers, A lot of times this is 197 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:51.519 like life. It's being invested in in the continuation and 198 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:55.080 the stewardship of life. Whether it's like whether it's your 199 00:12:55.080 --> 00:13:01.240 garden or your children or whatever. But when and when I'm. 200 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.360 Very invested, I'm very invested in my children, I'm very 201 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:08.360 invested in my grandchildren. I'm very invested in my garden. 202 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:15.440 Yes, and so in I feel. You know, My observation 203 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:17.480 is that a lot of times when we move into 204 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:21.600 the finance conversation, and the way the investment is often 205 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:25.320 kind of explained to people is it's an investment. Is 206 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:29.039 something we're actively encouraged to disengage from, you know, just 207 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:34.639 allocate capital, invest in indexes and funds and then just try, 208 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.279 you know, reallocate every year, but don't look at it 209 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:38.279 the other way to do that. 210 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:42.320 There's another way that that happens to Tina. I can't 211 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:44.879 tell you how many times I've had somebody say, oh, 212 00:13:44.960 --> 00:13:48.080 you just take care of it, you just take care 213 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:52.279 of it, and I'm like, sure, Oh, I want you 214 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:57.120 to understand what you're investing in. And now it's like oh. 215 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:00.200 Yes, And I'm not making anybody out to be the 216 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:02.960 bad guy here. It's again, it's become it's become a 217 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:07.919 habit because people are very busy and overloaded and overwhelmed. Yeah. 218 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:12.279 Yeah, well, so that main question that you ask is 219 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:17.440 what else could what else should count as a return? 220 00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:22.600 It's like when I first saw that, I went, what 221 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:25.639 you know, It's like it's kind of like turning a 222 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:30.200 question around on itself because I don't think I had 223 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:33.879 ever thought about it in those ways. How do you 224 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:37.559 answer that for yourself? How do you answer that what 225 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:39.120 else should count as a return? 226 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:46.159 Yes? I think return. It may be the slightly maybe 227 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:49.759 it's slight, maybe it's my slight confusion, or maybe I 228 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:52.080 haven't been super clear about that. But when I think 229 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.039 about return, it's really benefits to me as an investor, right, 230 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:59.279 it's the financial return. I might also have a really 231 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:02.080 good feeling about what I'm invested in because it is 232 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:06.080 something I feel devoted to. But then there's always two 233 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.159 there's two sides to every investment. It's a relationship that 234 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.440 you're setting up. Whether you sort of look at the 235 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:13.159 other side of it or not is up to you. 236 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.360 But there is a relationship because you are invested in 237 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:19.679 a company that has activity that it's doing in the world, 238 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:28.600 and I feel like, so to really understand but what 239 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:31.960 return is, you've got to look at that side too 240 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.440 and say, are there benefits on the other side of 241 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:38.440 this investment too, Are there benefits to the community, is 242 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.759 there a benefit to

the planet, or is it really 243 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:45.639 you know, is it really serving just that one, growing 244 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:52.039 the earnings, growing the bottom line outcome, just to bring 245 00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:54.679 money back to us, right, just to get a return 246 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.879 on the capital that we've invested. So I feel like 247 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:03.120 that's the piece where we sort of get we sort 248 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.039 of cut it off, and we're kind of like, that's 249 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:09.559 not really our business, you know, what they do with 250 00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:12.639 this is not our business. What our business is is 251 00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:16.240 about to reallocate our portfolio. So the way we've defined 252 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:20.320 risk is also very narrow. So we're looking at risk 253 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:24.240 to our own portfolio, but we're not looking at risks 254 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:27.799 based on what our money's doing, like the broader risks 255 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:31.960 environmental risk, community risk, employment risks for so many people, 256 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.120 I mean, in the service of these these quarterly targets, 257 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:38.519 we're seeing a lot of people here recently, very publicly 258 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:39.519 losing their jobs. 259 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:44.799 You know, well, well, you know that really is true 260 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:52.519 that my entire financial life has been about financial performance 261 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.720 and ways to mitigate risk and how to do all 262 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:01.840 of that. But what your doing is you're taking that 263 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:06.799 financial performance and then you're talking about how does that 264 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.000 affect communities, how does that affect the world, And you 265 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:14.599 could have conversations about well, like probably the easiest one 266 00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:19.079 would be climate change and environmental factors and things that 267 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:26.480 happen with companies that affect the environment, good, bad or ugly. 268 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:32.519 So so would you say that it's an incomplete picture 269 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:35.640 then that that we're not looking at it the way 270 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:36.079 we should. 271 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:41.240 Well, I feel like there, you know, everybody's got their 272 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:44.440 needs from the point of view of financial planning, right Like, 273 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:46.480 I don't think we get away from that. You don't 274 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:51.039 say I'm doing my investments just to support you know, 275 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:54.480 a sustainable future right for the planet. But there's a 276 00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:59.559 balancing and there's an integrity in making sure

you're looking 277 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:02.319 at the pas that I think is important. But then 278 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:05.079 there's also this possibility that we start with a slightly 279 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:09.079 different question, which you know, I think are at least 280 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:12.119 my observation is often the question is what's your return. 281 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:15.359 What kind of return are you getting? And or what 282 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:17.640 kind of return can I get if I invest in this? 283 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.599 And I wonder what happens if we start I mean ideally, 284 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:26.559 and I know good planners do this with folks. What 285 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.359 do you need? You know, it actually serves the needs 286 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:35.799 of your family and yourself such that whatever the impact is, 287 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:37.839 you kind of got to do it anyway. And then 288 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:41.559 but where, but also where is the possibility that we 289 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:45.240 could maybe look at things that have a little bit 290 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:50.200 more of a reciprocal picture to them, for example, more 291 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:53.599 local investment where you can actually drive up and see 292 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:56.000 what's happening to it, right like, So there's some things 293 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:59.319 where you might if you're really thinking about it differently. 294 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.880 So I think what this is intended to do is 295 00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:04.160 kind of plant some seeds so that people slow down 296 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:07.079 a little bit and go, could I carve out a 297 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:11.400 little bit of this here and do something that really 298 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.839 does feed the more reciprocal you know picture. 299 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:17.640 Right Well, I think we really need to get into 300 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.960 some practical application because I can just I can just 301 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.200 hear people going, what are you talking about? You know, 302 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:29.920 because I think that it's probably a little bit harder 303 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:38.079 to measure impacts on communities, and you know how it's like, 304 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.960 how in the world do you measure that? If you're 305 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:42.920 not just measuring things by return? 306 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.000 Right? I mean, I think there are indicators out there. 307 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.279 For example, Like so if we sort of start with 308 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:56.000 the kind of typical picture we could look like of 309 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.240 a corporation, we could kind of say, what we're seeing, 310 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:03.400 for example, Oracle is that they've laid thirty thousand people 311 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:06.400 off and

they're investing in large data centers, right, so, 312 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.359 and then they took out a lot of loans right 313 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:13.400 after paying huge dividends out to folks that are not 314 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:17.799 your typical investor. Right, so we can look at that 315 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:24.079 and say, I don't know about that. But or you 316 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:26.279 could sort of look away from that and going and go, 317 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:28.519 that's not my that's not my business. I don't own 318 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:31.119 any of that. But if you're in an SMP five 319 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.559 hundred fund, do you own some of that? Probably a 320 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:37.119 significant piece depending on how So, so I think we 321 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:39.920 can see some of the impacts. Can we measure it 322 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:44.400 like it does it go in a spreadsheet? 323 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:44.480 No? 324 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.599 But we feel it. These are our neighbors, these are 325 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:51.039 our friends, these are people, right, And so then I 326 00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:54.240 would say, like I was saying earlier, I don't think 327 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:57.720 that the initial ask as far as what to do 328 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:00.319 is rush out and make a bunch of change to 329 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:01.200 your portfolio. 330 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:05.000 And I appreciate what you did in your book because 331 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:10.200 basically it's kind of like baby steps, because you could 332 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:15.799 you could overwhelm somebody really badly here. So you know, 333 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:20.759 I really appreciated how how you said, well, just just 334 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:24.519 do one thing, because I'm sure that there's going to 335 00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:26.839 be people that are going to say this really feels 336 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:31.240 right to be thinking and expanding how I think about 337 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:38.079 about this. But let's get into some practical application. If 338 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:42.160 someone who's spent their life investing purely for return is 339 00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:46.240 going this makes a lot of sense. Where do they 340 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:48.759 even start in expanding that definition? 341 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:53.680 Well, I think I know this to a lot of 342 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:58.720 people doesn't feel like action because we're really habituated to 343 00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:02.559 thinking about action as sell this, buy that, do this, 344 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:04.960 go out in the world and make things happen. But 345 00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:09.039 sometimes what needs to happen is the process of digesting information. 346 00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:12.799 And I do feel like if you try to rush 347 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:17.400 this process, you will overwhelm yourself and it'll want you'll 348 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:19.160 want to turn it off. You know what I mean, 349 00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:22.000 it's a lot to take in. So I feel like 350 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:24.240 one of the most important first things to do is 351 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:27.799 just acknowledge that you are investing and look at what 352 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:31.880 you're investing in, just to kind of own it. So 353 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:35.440 the example that that I gave you is like, we 354 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:37.880 all are going to have impact, there's no way around it. 355 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.039 Like I travel. I love to travel, and I fly 356 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.000 to travel, and I know that has impact on the environment, 357 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:47.480 and so I never put down that knowing, like I 358 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:49.880 sort of carry it around with me and it makes 359 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:53.480 me appreciate my travel. It also makes me look for 360 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:58.359 other alternatives when there are alternatives. So it's a tuning 361 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:01.680 that you're trying to do to other alternatives. And once 362 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:04.000 you once you decide to slow down in tune a 363 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:07.000 little bit, it's like those things start to show up. 364 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:08.960 It's like when you decide, hey, I'm going to buy 365 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:12.160 a new car, and I think I'm looking at you know, 366 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:19.599 whatever Toyota Celica's that's I think, yeah, that is. But anyway, 367 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:22.079 if you whatever car it is, you get in your mind, 368 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:25.000 you start seeing them everywhere. And so part of the 369 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:28.680 point is is you're tuning yourself to pay attention to 370 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:36.160 other possibilities. Uh, the book provides a good a good 371 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:41.039 set of undernown types of investment alternatives. 372 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:44.240 Yeah, there are, there's some great suggestions. 373 00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:46.720 And if I start talking about them, I know I'm 374 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:49.640 going to like overload people at this stage. But I 375 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:55.240 would say that there's a growing kind of ecosystem of 376 00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:00.880 undernown alternative investments. People are doing really interesting things. I 377 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:04.480 can speak to one. I think one example would be good. 378 00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:08.880 So there's a friend of mine, Yeah, quickly, do I 379 00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:12.720 have time. So there's a person that I recently met 380 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:17.119 who was he's an entrepreneur and he runs He's done 381 00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:19.920 several different technology startups. But he grew up in a 382 00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:24.440

part of Houston that was redlined. It was a Mexican 383 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:28.480 American part of the city, and a lot of his 384 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.599 neighborhood is now kind of being bought up by at 385 00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:35.519 outside developers, and so he decided to run and put 386 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:39.680 together a community investment fund to enable his neighbors with 387 00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:44.160 as low as one hundred dollars to contribute to a 388 00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:46.519 fund where they would buy a piece of property and 389 00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:50.359 a business in their own neighborhood and participate in that development. 390 00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:52.119 So things like this are happening. 391 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.720 Yeah. And one of the other things that I appreciate 392 00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.480 about what you did in the book was not saying 393 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:04.759 throw your entire investment portfolio at something like this. Just 394 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:08.799 take take a little piece or you know, I mean 395 00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:12.160 maye and just like find out you know, have your 396 00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:15.319 have your majority that you have set aside, you know, 397 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:21.039 say where it is, but allocate something to explore this 398 00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:23.920 some one of the easiest things that you said in 399 00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:28.720 your book was go consider being part of a credit 400 00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:32.799 union instead of a regular bank because credit and I've 401 00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:36.640 been a member of a credit union my entire life, 402 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.759 and every time I've had things that I've done with 403 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.839 with like the big banks, I always come back to 404 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:46.799 the credit union. 405 00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:51.880 Yes, many of them do also fund things that are 406 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:54.359 local to you that you can learn about and get 407 00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:58.880 more involved with, so I would say, And another thing 408 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.400 is just reach tuning yourself to understand that you're investing 409 00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:04.759 in a lot of ways. So if you think about 410 00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:07.400 the fact that like what is it that you're devoted 411 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.359 to where you give to is it Houston Food Bank? 412 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:15.759 Are there arts associations that you could give you it's 413 00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:18.960 really tuning into them. As this is the same portfolio 414 00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.799 but you could be more mindful with it. It could 415 00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:24.000 be less of a tax write off of that's my 416 00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:28.640 you know, daughter in law's nonprofit too. What do I what? 417 00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:32.200 What planted a seed in myself that I really

want 418 00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:36.079 to see I want or gave me something that I 419 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:38.359 want to make sure it continues into the future. So 420 00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:41.240 there's other things where you're already doing. It is just 421 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:44.240 bringing a different kind of mindfulness to it that matters 422 00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:50.319 and really re orients you to this other definition of investment. 423 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:56.319 So yeah, because I've decided, I I want to say 424 00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:59.720 like five minutes at the end just to talk about 425 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:01.839 some of these things that I saw on there. But 426 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:09.799 let's talk about legacy. Legacy matters a lot to our listeners. 427 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:16.720 And how does redefining return connect to the legacy that 428 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:19.119 someone's trying to leave behind. What do you think? 429 00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:22.599 Well, I think that becomes part of your plan, right. 430 00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:25.680 You definitely have a financial legacy that you're wanting to 431 00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:28.079 leave behind to people. But when I think about my 432 00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:32.480 kids and the feedback that I've gotten from them, Okay, Boomer, 433 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:36.920 it's like you guys have made a big mess here, 434 00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:39.720 you know what I mean, Like they're looking at and 435 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:43.079 so part of our legacy is financial and the other 436 00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:47.160 is what seeds are we planting? And can we stand 437 00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:49.559 beside them and say we've done our best. Part of 438 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:53.720 why I wrote this book is because I want I 439 00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.359 don't want someone else to have to discover what I've 440 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:01.279 spent twenty plus years discovering about the system and how 441 00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:07.200 it's really pushing some unhealthy dynamics in the world, you 442 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:09.680 know what I mean. So I feel like I've got 443 00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:13.279 to show up at this table with some solutions. Since 444 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:17.839 I didn't grow up knowing about the impacts of our 445 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:21.319 systems and investments, It's like, now we've got the internet, 446 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.400 we can see them very closely. 447 00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:24.599 Oh yeah. 448 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:27.759 And so I feel like legacy is yes. You know, 449 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:31.759 I do believe in I come from My mother's an immigrant, 450 00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:35.279 my father was a farmer, so like those, I didn't 451 00:28:35.319 --> 00:28:40.720 come from financial or wealth. But I care a lot 452 00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:44.039 about leah. I care a lot about leaving. But it's like, 453 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:46.920 what's the balance, right? I think it's just it's just 454 00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.480 putting a lens on that and holding the balance of 455 00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:53.920 the legacy capital l two of what's the world we're 456 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.240 leaving and are we doing our best there? So yes, and. 457 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.759 Part of it, I think would be just not only 458 00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:06.960 doing your estate planning and all that, but having an 459 00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:09.799 ongoing conversation with your kids about how you feel and 460 00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:12.279 what you think about the world. It sounds to me, 461 00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:14.720 I mean, that's part of the legacy that you leave, 462 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:19.720 is is how you interact with your family, how you 463 00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:20.960 interact with your community. 464 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.599 Agree For people. 465 00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:29.519 Who feel like it's too late to change anything, what 466 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:30.599 would you say to them? 467 00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:34.359 I just I mean, I'm probably not the right person 468 00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.079 to ask about that. I say that because, like my 469 00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:42.240 father graduated from college at sixty three, my mother started 470 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.839 her dream restaurant at sixty three. You know, I'm writing 471 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:49.519 books at sixty three, So I'm not. But I do 472 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:55.039 feel like I do feel like I'm not sure why 473 00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:58.839 people would think that, because you know, if you're towards 474 00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:01.000 the end of your life and you're up against the 475 00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:02.720 edge of if you're going to be okay or not, 476 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.480 then you don't change anything. But if you've got you've 477 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.440 got a little bit of space, a little bit of 478 00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:13.920 space to make some different decisions with, then potentially there's 479 00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:16.839 some people in your family you could collaborate with to 480 00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:21.160 do things. They they have motivation for and care about. 481 00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:26.160 Which this all goes along with having a life purpose, 482 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.160 having things that you're involved in. I think that's going 483 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:34.240 to keep you healthier longer. Also, don't you think, you know, 484 00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.119 having some purpose, having something that you know is making 485 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:38.720 a difference. 486 00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:41.880 I think so. I think so. For me, it gives 487 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.279 me a lot of energy and interacting with younger people 488 00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:47.599 that have a lot of energy and are trying to 489 00:30:47.640 -->

00:30:53.319 find workout answers, being in dialogue about these systems and 490 00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:58.319 being willing to hear the different opinions even if they're incomplete, 491 00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:01.839 you know, or because mine are. I keep learning every year. 492 00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:06.880 I keep thinking, you know that that I'm not going 493 00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:09.039 to open up to a whole new world that I 494 00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:12.079 need to learn about. But I think I wouldn't like 495 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:14.680 that if I if I thought that were possible, So 496 00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:19.039 I do. I thought, I don't ever think it's too late. 497 00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:25.720 So I have thought about and have talked to people 498 00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:31.039 about financial security, you know, forever the whole time I've 499 00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:34.799 been an advisor. In your view, what what does true 500 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:39.519 financial security look like when it includes more than just 501 00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:40.759 that dollar figure? 502 00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.279 Yeah, that's such a u I mean we could have 503 00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:48.240 a whole dinner about that. Right, like I feel I 504 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:55.400 people ask me about security, and I security is is 505 00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:59.359 like a receptive It's like you feel secure, you don't 506 00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:03.880 make secure, right. So that's that I feel like, is 507 00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:06.119 why a lot of people have this idea that there's 508 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:08.079 a number that when they get to that number, they're 509 00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:10.160 going to have security. And then they get to that 510 00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:12.519 number and they don't have security. And then there are 511 00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:17.279 people who don't look for a number for security right 512 00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:19.920 like there they just are secure and there haven't even 513 00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.519 hit their goal yet. So so there's a little bit 514 00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:28.119 of a uh a question about what do we mean 515 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:31.839 by that? From from my own perspective, And this is 516 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:39.880 just me speaking as me because I feel so I 517 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:44.160 don't really I feel like we're living these individual lives, 518 00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:46.440 you know, like we have our lives and our gifts 519 00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:49.160 and things that we're bringing to community, but we're also 520 00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:53.480 interconnected with everybody else on this planet and all beings 521 00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:57.400 on this planet. So if there are people who are 522 00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:03.839 are hurt because of something that I'm involved with, systems, 523 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:09.680 investments or whatever, I don't I don't know that I 524 00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:12.680 can feel if there are people who are not getting enough, 525 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.720 I don't know that I cannot feel that I don't 526 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:21.039 know that I can feel super secure or super happy 527 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:25.960 with that situation, and I don't feel like that's fixable necessarily. 528 00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:29.480 But I'm I feel like I'm never gonna I don't 529 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:32.480 feel like I derived my security from finance. That's part 530 00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:34.680 of what I'll say about that, right. 531 00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:38.599 Well, okay, so let's let's hit this just a little 532 00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:40.440 bit more before I turn to some of these things. 533 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:44.279 I want to mention in the book. If someone wants 534 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:49.559 to start investing like a mother, what's the first small 535 00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:51.799 step that they should take. We kind of touched on 536 00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.759 this a few minutes ago, but let's let's drill this in. 537 00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:58.559 If they were gonna go, okay, I'm going to take 538 00:33:58.640 --> 00:33:59.960 one step, what would that be? 539 00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:04.839 So I think it would be doing a review of 540 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:08.840 where all your investments are and also how you're moving 541 00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:12.920 your money in general. So, if for example, you have 542 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.679 giving that you do that is some percentage of what 543 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:19.679 you do every year, that becomes part of the picture. 544 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:21.719 Where you bank becomes part of the picture. So you 545 00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:25.400 kind of do this inventory. Where is your the you know, 546 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:30.079 where is your money invested? Is most of it US stocks? 547 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:32.599 At some of it international stocks? Do you know what 548 00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:36.440 the major holdings of those funds are. You should look 549 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:38.920 at those things. Where do you mostly shop? Do you 550 00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:43.199 mostly shop on Amazon? That's actually a part of your 551 00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:48.920 financial life, right, And so I think looking at taking 552 00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:52.840 a good little inventory of that, understanding where your accounts are, 553 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:56.239 what kind of accounts you have, and then from there. 554 00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:58.599 There's a few things that I recommend in my book. 555 00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:02.360 One possibility and a lot of things. I'll pick one 556 00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:05.440 piece out that people don't really know about is the 557 00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:10.119 self directed IRA. So a self directed IRA, Yeah, that 558 00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:12.800 that is a structure that has all of the same 559

00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.639 tax advantages and tax structure as an IRA that you 560 00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:20.199 would get from Fidelity or Schwab or or any other 561 00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:27.280 financial bank. And and but but this one is held 562 00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:32.920 by a by an individual self directed IRA custodian and 563 00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:35.960 and those are lesser known names. But within a self 564 00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:43.039 directed IRA, you can hold real estate, you can invest in. 565 00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:45.119 In that community fund, you could invest in a Yes, 566 00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:49.440 you can invest in a you can invest in and 567 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:52.519 in several different of the alternatives that I present in 568 00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:54.039 the book that are lesser known. 569 00:35:55.400 --> 00:36:00.159 So CDFIs there are certain kinds of community oriented financial 570 00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:03.039 institutions that invest in low income housing things like that. 571 00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:05.119 There are things that you can do from within there 572 00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.679 that that you can't do from a regular standard kind 573 00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:12.639 of investment account. So that's one thing. So you could say, 574 00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:15.000 I'm going to take I don't know, pick a number 575 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:19.079 ten thousand dollars and put it in a self directed 576 00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:23.960 IRA account and wait, just have it there as as 577 00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:27.800 ready to make an investment in case one shows up 578 00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:30.599 for me and now I have this cash available. 579 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:31.039 You're ready. 580 00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:35.920 Show can't show up. That's right, that's right. But I 581 00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:39.639 but you can have within a self directed IRA, you 582 00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:42.800 can have you can be invested in different businesses. You 583 00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:46.480 can make loans to people, you can make loans to 584 00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:49.880 people to buy houses. You could be you could write 585 00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:53.800 your own mortgage notes in there. You could hold real 586 00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:58.480 estate in there and have a short term rental property 587 00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:02.000 or a rental property inside your IRA. So all of 588 00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:05.519 the income that comes in from there comes in and 589 00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:08.480 is treated. What if it's a rough one, it's basically 590 00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:13.159 treated like any other IRA would be right, So those 591 00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:15.239 are things you do. So that's one thing. So I think, 592 00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:17.639 look at everything and then figure out what your next 593 00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:20.000 step is based on where you are and what you have. 594 00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.320 If it's if you kind of go, I want to 595 00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:26.920 do ten percent, then you know it's it's it's sort 596 00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:30.119 of putting that in your plan and beginning to investigate 597 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:32.599 some of the alternatives that are available out there. 598 00:37:33.800 --> 00:37:38.440 Wow, okay, so I'm gonna I've never really done this, 599 00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:44.199 I've never really just kind of become very spontaneous. So 600 00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.599 I'm going to pick out one of the things that 601 00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:51.320 I Well, one of the things you do is talk 602 00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:54.519 about what to look at and ask. And that's that's 603 00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:58.599 what you were just talking about, like self directed where 604 00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:02.679 you shop. You talk about where you shop, whether it's 605 00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:08.559 large corporate retailers or smaller you know, supporting small business. 606 00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:11.679 I think that's part of it, too, right, you know it. 607 00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:16.000 Really is, it really is. Those are investments and people go, well, 608 00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:18.760 I can get it cheaper over here, and look, I 609 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:21.440 think we're It's like the it's like the travel, it's 610 00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:23.920 like the flight thing. It's like sometimes you've got to 611 00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:27.239 have it tomorrow. Your kid just told you about the assignment, 612 00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:31.719 but like sometimes sometimes you have time. And there are 613 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:35.000 in different parts of the country, for example, there are cooperatives, 614 00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.920 there are cooperative electrical companies, there are co op cooperative 615 00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:46.000 grocery stores. Those are employee owned often or member owned, 616 00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:49.599 and those are really different structures and they're usually very 617 00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:53.519 rooted in community. Right, So you can shop in different places. 618 00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:54.639 That can be something too. 619 00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.159 There's a cooperative in Spokane, Washington. A lot of my 620 00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:01.880 a lot of my clients are in Spokane, Washington, and 621 00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:03.800 they're going to know what I'm talking about because it's 622 00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:08.400 right downtown. But there's a cooperative that struggled for a 623 00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:10.920 few years when it was getting going, but it seems 624 00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:14.519 like it's really doing well now. But yeah, it's exactly 625 00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:18.800 that sort of thing, that cooperative. Here's some of the questions. 626 00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:20.559 So I'm just going to say this and I'll have 627 00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:24.760 you comment. Okay, you talk about a daily

investment audit. 628 00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:29.480 A few starting questions, where do I bank? So we 629 00:39:29.559 --> 00:39:32.800 talked about credit unions. Is there a credit union or 630 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:35.960 you know something like that. What local businesses do I value? 631 00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:40.599 So you keep coming back, you keep using that word value, right, 632 00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:45.039 what small businesses do I value? Is there a cooperative 633 00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:47.800 in my community? Like we've just been talking about, You 634 00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:50.400 might you know, this might spur people on to search 635 00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:53.559 out those things in their community that they meant a 636 00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:59.880 lot to think about what creative work am I consuming 637 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:04.000 for free that I could support directly. That's an interesting one. 638 00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:08.320 Yes, yes, artists. 639 00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:11.360 Writers, educators or journalists. Could I move to direct support? 640 00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:14.960 And when I look at my work life, what does 641 00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.639 it enable and how does that sit with my values? 642 00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:24.320 That's an interesting one. People to say, I think I'm 643 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:26.519 going to change jobs. 644 00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:32.119 Right yeah, oh, or or you know, I think it could, 645 00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:34.800 but it also could, Like you look at all of 646 00:40:34.840 --> 00:40:39.719 these things imbalance together. So you know I mentioned that 647 00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:43.599 I uninvested from the stock market. Ye, partially because that's 648 00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:46.480 my personality, right, Like I don't advise people to do 649 00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:49.280 any of the things I do in my life. But 650 00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:53.599 but I wanted to be pressured myself to find other 651 00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:58.880 places and other options to share and this is a 652 00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:02.320 part of my work. But also I was working inside 653 00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.800 of and supporting those corporations in my work life, so 654 00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:08.840 I was over leveraged into that space as it was. 655 00:41:08.920 --> 00:41:11.239 I felt like I didn't also want to be invested 656 00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:12.840 in it. I wanted to support. 657 00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:16.599 All your basket. That's right, that's the whole that well, 658 00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:20.079 that's part of diversification. So you're basically taking the idea 659 00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:22.760 of diversification and kind of flipping that on its head 660 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:26.599 and creating a definition of how to diversify. 661 00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:28.639 It a little bit. And I want to be very 662 00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:32.079 compassionate in this space because I just think, you know, 663 00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:34.960 it's not easy, it's not straightforward. 664 00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:40.639 No, because I'm I'm entirely invested in the stock market. Yes, 665 00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:46.679 so you're making me ask some new questions. So here's another. 666 00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:53.400 Here's some some things from your incremental change uh chapter. 667 00:41:54.039 --> 00:41:56.920 Start with a percentage, not a total overhaul. And I 668 00:41:56.960 --> 00:42:03.320 think that totally applies here because this would be like, 669 00:42:03.400 --> 00:42:07.440 oh too much. So just a percentage, just something small. 670 00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:11.280 Then build a simple investment stack using that percentage. What 671 00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:15.559 does that mean? What's the simple investment stack? What does 672 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:16.000 that mean? 673 00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:20.960 It's just you know, it's it's basically looking at you know, 674 00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:24.960 you haven't you have asset allocation and your broader portfolio. 675 00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:28.079 It's taking that and saying, okay, for this five or 676 00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:30.880 ten or twenty whatever percentage that I want to pull 677 00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:34.920 out and use for this invest like a mother strategy 678 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.119 or this values aligned strategy. I'm also still looking at 679 00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:42.880 a similar kind of allocation. Some things are income, some 680 00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:47.039 things are I might have some cash sitting there in 681 00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:51.000 case a community investment fund or something comes up. So 682 00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:53.880 some things might be equity, some things might be loans. 683 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:55.760 So it's kind of looking at what you want to 684 00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:58.239 have in there, and I give you some I give 685 00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:00.880 some options throughout the book about what you could bright. 686 00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:04.840 Yeah, you actually talk about some different types of stacks 687 00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:09.119 and how you how you do that. You talk about 688 00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:12.320 what's interesting is you kind of drill down on credit 689 00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:19.960 unions and evaluating and asking questions, asking some better questions 690 00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.079 about where you would put the money that you have 691 00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:26.880 in cash, like who's eligible for membership, what do they 692 00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:33.039 lend to? You're that would be interesting do the credit 693 00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:38.320 does a local credit union lend to or or work 694 00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:40.360 with that community fund that you're talking about. 695 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.679 This the particular one that so I think this is 696 00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:47.639 an emerging space and I'm super

excited about it, this 697 00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:54.159 sort of community investment fund model. But they do usually 698 00:43:54.239 --> 00:44:01.920 through organizations like uh CDFI's Community Development Finance institutions. Some 699 00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:05.119 credit unions have that whole aspect as part of what 700 00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:09.920 they some of them are cdf eyes. So the whole 701 00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:12.000 what I'm trying to get at here is that the 702 00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:18.519 whole infrastructure is a little bit diverse, and so you 703 00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:20.480 kind of got to drill into the things that are 704 00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:23.039 local to you and ask good questions because some people, 705 00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:28.079 when I was talking about credit unions, just like any 706 00:44:28.119 --> 00:44:32.840 other nonprofits, some of them feel much more corporate. Some 707 00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:35.239 of them are not doing the things you would think 708 00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:38.880 or hope the credit union would do. So you're looking 709 00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:41.960 for credit unions that are very place oriented so that 710 00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.639 you know they're supporting the things you care about. So 711 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:47.880 that was what I was getting at there, right. 712 00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:52.559 Wow, Well this is not your first book either. You've 713 00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:54.119 written another book. 714 00:44:56.400 --> 00:44:57.119 Coming Around? 715 00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:00.559 Yes, well does that say the name of again? 716 00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:05.159 Coming Around? Surprises and Surrender on the Path to Inspiration. 717 00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:09.519 So yes, it's about me reclaiming parts of myself that 718 00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:12.239 I had to close off in order to be successful. 719 00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:15.679 You know in this culture, that really kind of validates 720 00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:19.360 the grind and the push and the action and all 721 00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:21.880 of the things that are good and balanced. But as 722 00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:23.480 I said we were talking about earlier, you got to 723 00:45:23.559 --> 00:45:25.880 kind of slow down sometimes and be still a little 724 00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:27.760 bit to know what your inspiration is. 725 00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:33.760 Well, and we are out of time. It's like I 726 00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:35.360 wanted to pack a lot, and I think we did 727 00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:38.480 pack a lot in but it's kind of also just 728 00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:42.159 the beginning of being able to explore what this might mean, 729 00:45:42.280 --> 00:45:46.559 because it could be different for everyone. Right, what's one question, 730 00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:50.000 because we have to close up shop here, What's one 731 00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:55.280 question you hope every listener asks themselves after hearing this conversation. 732 00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:02.639 What is my money making possible? Not just for me, 733 00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.079 but for everyone that it touches. 734 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:09.679 Wow, that's a question I don't think people have really 735 00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:13.679 asked before. So you're like opening up this whole new 736 00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:15.280 universe here. 737 00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:18.320 I'm so happy that you brought me on. 738 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:23.719 Well, this has been wonderful. You have definitely pushed some 739 00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:27.440 buttons for me in thinking about this for myself and 740 00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:32.119 my own investments, and also looking at oh, I'm already 741 00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:34.840 doing this, and I'm already doing that. So it was like, okay, 742 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:39.480 so I think I'd already kind of unconsciously started down 743 00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:39.840 that road. 744 00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:43.719 Anyway, I think a lot of most people are doing 745 00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:47.920 a lot of the right things. Most people have have 746 00:46:48.199 --> 00:46:53.639 that central orientation to want the intention to make good 747 00:46:53.679 --> 00:46:54.760 things happen in the world. 748 00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:59.199 Right, Well, we we're going to have to close this 749 00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:04.079 up and say say goodbye for now. I hope that 750 00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:07.639 this is spurring some people and inspiring those of you 751 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:10.599 out there that are listening to this to inspire you 752 00:47:10.840 --> 00:47:16.320 to ask some questions of yourself of how how might 753 00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:20.239 this be something where you can make an impact in 754 00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:24.360 the world. So with that, Tina, thank you so much 755 00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:27.920 for joining me today. Thank you, and thanks to all 756 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:31.079 of our listeners for joining us on the Ask Good 757 00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:34.400 Questions podcast. We will see you next time. 758 00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:41.639 Today's episode is over, but indeed ask Good Questions again, 759 00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:45.440 didn't We don't miss out as we broadcast live every 760 00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:49.760 Wednesday six pm Eastern Time on W FOURCY Radio at 761 00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:54.159 w fourcy dot com. Joined Banina Bellenderson next week for 762 00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:59.639 more conversations with experts on finances, retirement, behavioral. 763 00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:01.800 Finance, issue, health and wellness. Endmore. 764 00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:06.159 Until then, remember to ask good questions.