النص الكامل لحلقة 45 Forward #102 - As the World Reopens, How Can Seniors Get Out Again and Travel?

happened. So I had a mom who had polio 70 00:03:43.939 --> 00:03:47.610 as a child and had, uh, certainly a number of 71 00:03:47.689 --> 00:03:50.389 challenges and towards the end of her life was in 72 00:03:50.409 --> 00:03:54.270 a wheelchair. And she was, we were still going and 73 00:03:54.330 --> 00:04:00.250 it was very difficult. And we just, we just went, 74 00:04:00.310 --> 00:04:02.069 we just did it. I didn't give it a lot 75 00:04:02.090 --> 00:04:04.840 of thought. I wrote a lot of letters to stores 76 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:08.819 and other places saying how difficult it was for us 77 00:04:08.860 --> 00:04:12.939 to get around. Never got any responses. Nobody really ever cared. 78 00:04:14.419 --> 00:04:17.939 The ADA Act came about in 1990, which has certainly 79 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:21.259 made things a lot better for a lot of people. 80 00:04:21.899 --> 00:04:25.629 But that's another story. So my mom passed away in 2005, 81 00:04:25.629 --> 00:04:29.810 and I didn't really give any more thought to the 82 00:04:29.870 --> 00:04:34.490 difficulties of getting around in a wheelchair. And then in 2012, 83 00:04:34.490 --> 00:04:37.470 I had a bizarre accident that left me in a 84 00:04:37.490 --> 00:04:41.529 wheelchair for six months. And then another year with a 85 00:04:41.589 --> 00:04:45.000 walker and a cane and physical therapy. And I was 86 00:04:45.060 --> 00:04:49.620 starting at that point to realize more of the challenges 87 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:52.560 and more of the things that we didn't know, that 88 00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:57.100 we couldn't account for, information that we didn't get. And 89 00:04:57.180 --> 00:04:59.819 one of the things that really bothered me tremendously at 90 00:04:59.860 --> 00:05:03.220 that point was you would go someplace that had a 91 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:06.459 push button assist door and you pushed it and it 92 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:10.300 didn't work. And that is still true to this day. 93 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:16.350 And assorted other things that, got me going again. I 94 00:05:16.889 --> 00:05:19.750 knew that this was temporary and I didn't give a 95 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:23.180 lot of thought to, there are people for whom this 96 00:05:23.259 --> 00:05:26.519 is not temporary. And so I went back to work. 97 00:05:26.579 --> 00:05:27.939 I went back to my life. 98 00:05:28.339 --> 00:05:29.100 And so. 99 00:05:30.339 --> 00:05:33.379 Life progressed. And then my father who at the age 100 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:37.810 of 96 and a very full life, his body betrayed him. 101 00:05:37.889 --> 00:05:40.170 And he went from a cane to a Walker, to 102 00:05:40.209 --> 00:05:43.449 a wheelchair. And it was really with my father that, 103 00:05:44.050 --> 00:05:47.949 that I was frustrated as could be. We were now 104 00:05:48.009 --> 00:05:51.560 at a time where information was available online. I would 105 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.259 spend time with my dad. My dad loved going out. 106 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:56.639 He would have liked to have three meals a day out. 107 00:05:57.459 --> 00:06:00.300 We would go to places and we would discover that 108 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:04.839 the wheelchair wasn't happening. It wasn't getting in or we 109 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:08.759 couldn't open the door or assorted other things. One of 110 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.420 the major things was My husband had no problem pushing 111 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:16.360 me into the ladies' room in a wheelchair. He didn't care. I, however, 112 00:06:16.459 --> 00:06:19.870 had a lot of trouble pushing my 97-year-old father into 113 00:06:19.899 --> 00:06:22.290 the men's room. And so I would wind up with 114 00:06:22.310 --> 00:06:24.829 until some nice young guy came along and offered to 115 00:06:24.949 --> 00:06:31.829 assist him. And after numerous, numerous times of not getting 116 00:06:31.990 --> 00:06:35.290 adequate information, not being able to find it online because 117 00:06:35.329 --> 00:06:38.589 we were now up to Google and calling up places 118 00:06:38.670 --> 00:06:42.709 and not getting information, I finally became so frustrated that 119 00:06:42.750 --> 00:06:44.990 I came home from a visit with my dad and 120 00:06:45.089 --> 00:06:47.970 said to my best friend, I have to do something 121 00:06:48.009 --> 00:06:52.120 about this. This is just insane. People should have this information. 122 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:54.420 And so I said, if nobody else is going to 123 00:06:54.459 --> 00:06:57.560 do it, I'm going to do it. And thus came 124 00:06:57.600 --> 00:06:59.379 the beginning of Destination Accessible. 125 00:06:59.899 --> 00:07:00.319 Okay. 126 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.050 Well, we're going to pick that up. But first, I'm 127 00:07:03.060 --> 00:07:05.769 going to then switch to Bruce now and talk a 128 00:07:05.769 --> 00:07:09.050 little bit about how he came to his situation. I've 129 00:07:09.089 --> 00:07:11.790 known Bruce for quite a while and Bruce is what 130 00:07:11.829 --> 00:07:17.389 I call a serial entrepreneur, but, um, um, uh, so Bruce, 131 00:07:17.740 --> 00:07:20.860 so now you're, you're, uh, running, uh, the mindful traveler, 132 00:07:21.139 --> 00:07:23.100 but how to tell us a bit about how you 133 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:24.379 got to where you are today. 134 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:26.399 Uh, it's good to see you again, Ron, and it's 135 00:07:26.420 --> 00:07:28.519 going to be back here. Yeah. It's, you know, it's always, 136 00:07:28.779 --> 00:07:32.740 we were just talking about what a great journey it's been. Um, uh, again, 137 00:07:32.819 --> 00:07:35.250 I've been involved in a lot of different things after 138 00:07:35.259 --> 00:07:38.680 I graduated college and then, uh, you know, realizing that, uh, 139 00:07:39.019 --> 00:07:43.420 Everything revolves around financing. So I got involved in corporate 140 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:48.250 banking and spent 10 years doing very

well in corporate banking, 141 00:07:49.029 --> 00:07:52.029 starting with Citibank back in the day. And I was 142 00:07:52.069 --> 00:07:53.990 doing a lot of travel and I really enjoyed the 143 00:07:54.470 --> 00:07:58.569 opportunity to meet people from different places, learn different cultures 144 00:07:58.709 --> 00:08:02.120 and get a lot of experience in learning about yourself 145 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:06.120 through these situations. But after 10 years in the corporate world, 146 00:08:06.180 --> 00:08:10.829 I realized that was kind of not my entrepreneurial lifestyle 147 00:08:10.889 --> 00:08:13.050 that I would prefer to be in terms of doing 148 00:08:13.089 --> 00:08:15.649 things on my own. So looking around to see what 149 00:08:15.689 --> 00:08:18.550 kind of business opportunity would best fit what I was 150 00:08:18.589 --> 00:08:21.529 looking for, I realized, well, you know, kind of what 151 00:08:21.689 --> 00:08:23.839 skills do I have? Well, in banking, it's really a 152 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:28.339 service industry. And this was before the internet. And at 153 00:08:28.379 --> 00:08:31.040 that time, if you wanted an airline ticket, you really 154 00:08:31.100 --> 00:08:33.649 either had to go to the airline, the airport, or 155 00:08:33.669 --> 00:08:37.549 airline ticketing office or to a travel agency. And, uh, 156 00:08:37.769 --> 00:08:41.490 my experiences with dealing with different travel agencies, I requested 157 00:08:41.509 --> 00:08:43.799 a very high level of service and I wasn't getting it. 158 00:08:44.210 --> 00:08:46.350 And I said, there's gotta be a better way. And 159 00:08:46.389 --> 00:08:49.500 that's when I did some research and figured out some 160 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:51.600 of the things I need to do. And, uh, I 161 00:08:51.620 --> 00:08:55.580 built a pretty successful, uh, business travel operation, uh, up 162 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:58.639 in New Jersey and New York and, uh, did very 163 00:08:58.659 --> 00:09:02.909 well with that, uh, until 9-11. And, uh, then the 164 00:09:03.009 --> 00:09:05.679 industry changed quite a bit. And that was the same 165 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:08.799 time the internet was really coming along. And so I 166 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:11.899 decided to not bang my head against the wall. I 167 00:09:12.259 --> 00:09:16.350 left the travel. People warned traveling as a result of 168 00:09:16.470 --> 00:09:19.409 what had happened. And I felt from a business operation, 169 00:09:19.470 --> 00:09:21.750 from a numbers game, it would make more sense to, hey, 170 00:09:21.809 --> 00:09:26.450 let's take a hiatus. And so I figured at that point, 171 00:09:26.490 --> 00:09:29.100 I knew the internet was the future for all information 172 00:09:29.179 --> 00:09:32.370 and transactions, and especially in travel. So I became an 173 00:09:32.409 --> 00:09:36.659 internet travel marketing professional and did that for quite a while, 174 00:09:36.919 --> 00:09:40.679 not just with travel, but all types of retail benefits 175 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:43.759 in terms of the internet. And then about 15 years ago, 176 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:46.659 I was between consulting jobs. And I said, hey, you know, 177 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:49.059 I wonder what the travel industry is like these days. 178 00:09:49.740 --> 00:09:53.750 And that was in 2007. And at that point, I said, 179 00:09:53.750 --> 00:09:56.269 you know what? I think this is the world hadn't 180 00:09:56.289 --> 00:09:59.740 changed with the same places people going the same vacation 181 00:09:59.779 --> 00:10:03.340 destinations the focus and travel was no longer on business 182 00:10:03.379 --> 00:10:05.139 travel and I'll talk about that in a second it's 183 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:08.820 more on vacation leisure travel and sometimes now we call 184 00:10:08.860 --> 00:10:11.539 it leisure travel if you combine both and I sort 185 00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:14.509 of great opportunity to run an online business and this 186 00:10:14.590 --> 00:10:16.669 is so I've been virtual since 2007 and it's been 187 00:10:16.710 --> 00:10:22.970 a phenomenal, great experience that I'm able to provide, you know, 188 00:10:23.529 --> 00:10:26.169 you know, similar to what Roberta's talking about, you know, 189 00:10:26.450 --> 00:10:30.179 people want experiences. And so how can, you know, from 190 00:10:30.220 --> 00:10:32.960 the bad experiences we have, we can help other people 191 00:10:33.019 --> 00:10:36.480 get the information they need to have good experiences. And 192 00:10:36.539 --> 00:10:39.759 that's really what the vacation planning aspect of my business is, 193 00:10:39.779 --> 00:10:44.190 is helping people achieve those experiences and kind of helping 194 00:10:44.230 --> 00:10:46.850 them with the resources, just like you do. And just 195 00:10:46.870 --> 00:10:49.590 like Roberta does in different areas, And it's important that 196 00:10:49.950 --> 00:10:53.129 often I find that people want the information, but sometimes 197 00:10:53.169 --> 00:10:55.299 they don't even know what they don't know to ask. 198 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:59.460 And that's why it's important that we take an aggressive 199 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:03.200 role from providing a resource to help educate people along 200 00:11:03.220 --> 00:11:03.500 the way. 201 00:11:04.419 --> 00:11:07.220 That's great. That's great. Yeah, I'm listening to both of you. 202 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:09.779 There are certain themes that come up. I mean, for 203 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:13.370 one thing, I mean, both of you have had opportunities 204 00:11:13.429 --> 00:11:17.149 come to you from the internet, which didn't exist when 205 00:11:17.169 --> 00:11:20.759 you were younger. in the same capacity um and that 206 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.100 you both are involved in in in the travel experiences 207 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.639 whether it's local and roberta does a lot of well 208 00:11:27.159 -->

00:11:30.779 it's just about finding accessibility in the places you go 209 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:34.399 to not the travel itself per se uh but you 210 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:36.809 know there there are lots there are lots of connections 211 00:11:36.850 --> 00:11:40.450 there um and also you both said uh that you 212 00:11:40.870 --> 00:11:43.389 you found that you need people needed to be served 213 00:11:43.409 --> 00:11:46.129 in ways they weren't being served. And so looking for 214 00:11:46.169 --> 00:11:50.809 those opportunities, I think is really an important thing. And 215 00:11:51.029 --> 00:11:52.750 so the last thing I'm going to then segue back 216 00:11:52.789 --> 00:11:57.289 to Roberta, because you raised the question about people asking 217 00:11:57.370 --> 00:12:00.429 questions and not even knowing what questions I ask. So 218 00:12:00.470 --> 00:12:04.929 that's one area that Roberta really has made some great strides. 219 00:12:05.929 --> 00:12:10.080 And so with her website, Destination Accessible. So now let's 220 00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:12.690 talk a little bit about the website. Roberta and how 221 00:12:13.149 --> 00:12:16.509 people can use it because one of your issues is 222 00:12:16.529 --> 00:12:19.789 that people don't know what questions to ask about accessibility, 223 00:12:19.850 --> 00:12:20.610 what it really means. 224 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:28.320 Okay. So I would like to say that we spent 225 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:33.139 a year before we ever put anything into our website, 226 00:12:33.940 --> 00:12:37.200 trying to figure out, doing research about seniors. We had 227 00:12:37.259 --> 00:12:41.539 envisioned it specifically as a website for seniors, and what 228 00:12:41.659 --> 00:12:45.570 things would be helpful to seniors and making sure that 229 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:48.190 it was easy to navigate, making sure that it was 230 00:12:48.289 --> 00:12:51.490 easy to see even before. So, you know, before this 231 00:12:51.549 --> 00:12:55.710 issue of website accessibility has come into being now, and 232 00:12:55.750 --> 00:12:58.299 now the word accessibility has a new meaning, which has 233 00:12:58.340 --> 00:13:03.840 been somewhat of a problem for the disability world, but 234 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:08.289 that's a whole other issue. So we spent time deciding 235 00:13:08.370 --> 00:13:11.590 what we would put on our website. We decided that 236 00:13:12.210 --> 00:13:16.190 we wanted to focus on fun things that people wanna do. 237 00:13:16.250 --> 00:13:17.950 You have to go to your doctor, you have to 238 00:13:17.990 --> 00:13:19.990 go to the bank, you have to go to those places, 239 00:13:20.610 --> 00:13:23.840 but you have choices when you are going out for 240 00:13:23.899 --> 00:13:26.419 some fun. And so we wanted it to be as 241 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:30.139 simple as possible. Our feedback has said that we've pretty 242 00:13:30.179 --> 00:13:33.820 much succeeded in doing that. Our website is very easy 243 00:13:33.860 --> 00:13:39.399 to navigate. It is very straightforward. It doesn't have a 244 00:13:39.419 --> 00:13:43.340 lot of bells and whistles by choice. We wanted it 245 00:13:43.419 --> 00:13:47.419 to be as easy for seniors and people like myself 246 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:51.110 who are definitely challenged in the technology area to be 247 00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:53.789 able to use. And so you can go to our 248 00:13:53.830 --> 00:14:03.759 homepage and you can search by category. which is dining, museums, parks, restaurants, 249 00:14:04.259 --> 00:14:08.259 other popular places, and out-of-town places. Or you can search 250 00:14:08.340 --> 00:14:12.860 by geographic area. There's a drop-down menu for that. You 251 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:18.389 can search by Long Island is our primary focus. And 252 00:14:18.429 --> 00:14:22.509 the vast majority of our venues are Long Island and 253 00:14:22.529 --> 00:14:25.870 the New York metro area. or you can go to 254 00:14:25.889 --> 00:14:28.929 the search bar and write in the place that you 255 00:14:29.009 --> 00:14:30.860 hope to go to or want to find out about. 256 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:34.419 And if we have been there, it is on our website. 257 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:38.120 We also have articles of interest that we have been, um, 258 00:14:39.259 --> 00:14:43.950 especially during the pandemic, we tried to keep people giving 259 00:14:43.970 --> 00:14:46.730 them choices of things to do at home, both online 260 00:14:46.789 --> 00:14:50.250 and not online and other interesting things. So things about, 261 00:14:50.529 --> 00:14:54.029 I'll mention just travel that the TSA has, um, a 262 00:14:54.090 --> 00:14:57.139 program for people with disabilities to help them navigate and 263 00:14:57.159 --> 00:14:59.860 to help them get on. And there's even a program 264 00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:04.940 for children and people with autism to help them. So 265 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:08.679 we're trying, our goal is to give as much information 266 00:15:08.779 --> 00:15:13.169 as possible to anyone with a mobility limitation, whether it's 267 00:15:13.210 --> 00:15:16.269 a person who is just a senior, slow walker, needs 268 00:15:16.330 --> 00:15:19.889 to rest, or up to a person using a wheelchair. 269 00:15:21.740 --> 00:15:25.299 Great. We're going to come up with a break shortly, 270 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:27.679 but I wanted to start with Bruce just to shift 271 00:15:27.740 --> 00:15:31.299 over to, you know, so now you've been using the internet, obviously, 272 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:34.340 with people depend on it much more in terms of 273 00:15:34.379 --> 00:15:36.779 travel overall. How do you make use of the internet 274 00:15:36.820 --> 00:15:39.240 in terms of giving people advice and guiding them through 275 00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:40.259 their travel experiences? 276 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:45.879 It's a great question. Normally, a client will come to 277

00:15:45.899 --> 00:15:47.639 me and say, you know, if they're looking for any travel, 278 00:15:48.370 --> 00:15:50.990 if they have not already searched the internet, I send 279 00:15:51.009 --> 00:15:52.990 them to the internet before I will even talk to them. 280 00:15:54.850 --> 00:15:58.830 The situation is there's so much travel information on the internet. 281 00:15:59.210 --> 00:16:01.570 Most of it, again, there's unfortunately a lot of misinformation, 282 00:16:02.529 --> 00:16:05.029 not a lot of detailed information, but I think people 283 00:16:05.049 --> 00:16:07.460 need a starting point and a reference point. And the 284 00:16:07.500 --> 00:16:10.840 internet is a great reference point. It gives you just 285 00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:13.039 to kind of makes you think of things you maybe 286 00:16:13.059 --> 00:16:15.700 you didn't think about. I tell people, write down things 287 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:17.820 you like, things you don't like, and then I can 288 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:20.750 help guide you at that point. Because if you don't 289 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:23.429 know what you're looking at, it's, it's, it's very misleading, 290 00:16:23.470 --> 00:16:26.080 especially in the, in the travelers, you know, there's certain 291 00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:28.259 things that are regulated as certain things are not. And, 292 00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:30.919 and again, you know, it's people will see pictures and 293 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:32.899 if you see a great deal, it's probably too good 294 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:35.240 to be true. And so I think it's really important 295 00:16:35.259 --> 00:16:38.299 that you focus on, um, as far as using internet, 296 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:40.669 once people come to me, I'm able to steer them 297 00:16:40.730 --> 00:16:44.490 specifically onto sites that are more relevant for what their 298 00:16:44.529 --> 00:16:47.389 specific needs are. Yeah. 299 00:16:47.409 --> 00:16:50.250 And I think the, the whole issue of, uh, if 300 00:16:50.269 --> 00:16:51.909 you're not asking the right questions, you're not going to 301 00:16:51.929 --> 00:16:57.149 get the right answers. So I think that especially going 302 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.840 on to Roberta's side and actually talking with her, you know, 303 00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:04.299 accessibility is a broad area, you know, and as Roberta mentioned, 304 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.940 there's a whole issue about computer accessibility using, you know, websites, 305 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.960 but that's, but now we're talking mostly about, you know, 306 00:17:12.029 --> 00:17:18.349 mobility issues with respect to accessibility. And, you know, and people, 307 00:17:18.769 --> 00:17:22.480 you know, talk about, the, you know, this has been 308 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:25.220 going on for years since the ADA, the American Disabilities 309 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:30.700 Act was passed in the early 90s, 1990s, another century. 310 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:35.480 Things have progressed a lot, but in many ways, as Roberta, 311 00:17:35.500 --> 00:17:39.039 you pointed out, they haven't, you know, and people, the 312 00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:43.480 compliance really varies. There are all sorts of exceptions. And 313 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:47.799 you talk to people about very specifically, well, as some 314 00:17:47.819 --> 00:17:50.609 of the things you just mentioned, like, that people might 315 00:17:50.670 --> 00:17:55.869 not think of, which is, okay, are there areas to rest? 316 00:17:56.809 --> 00:17:58.690 You know, that may not be part of, you know, 317 00:17:58.730 --> 00:18:03.150 ADA guidelines or requirements, but there are issues to think about, 318 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:05.259 you know, in terms of serving your clientele and what 319 00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:08.539 do they need as they travel, whether it's long distance 320 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:10.640 or whether it's just another town over to go to 321 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:13.640 a restaurant, because people don't think of that, or they 322 00:18:13.660 --> 00:18:16.609 don't think about, as you pointed out, okay, is the 323 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:23.079 bathroom accessible? What does that really mean, right? So we're 324 00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:24.720 going to pick up that again. I wanted to get 325 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:27.740 your specific thoughts, Roberta, about that when we get back. 326 00:18:27.779 --> 00:18:30.059 But we're going to take a short break now. But folks, 327 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:31.980 when we come back, we'll be talking much more with 328 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.720 Roberta Rosenberg, the founder of Destination Accessible, and Bruce Frankel, 329 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:38.750 the president of The Mindful Traveler. So don't go anywhere. 330 00:18:38.789 --> 00:18:42.390 We'll be right back. Welcome back to 45 Forward, where 331 00:18:42.410 --> 00:18:45.490 we're talking with Roberta Rosenberg, the founder of Destination Accessible, 332 00:18:45.789 --> 00:18:48.690 and Bruce Frankel, the president of The Mindful Traveler. about 333 00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:50.930 how we can get out in the world again, socialize 334 00:18:50.970 --> 00:18:53.710 and travel, and make the most of our experiences, no 335 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:57.980 matter what our mobility limitations might be. So before the break, 336 00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:02.200 I was talking about Roberta's ability to really ferret out 337 00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:04.900 the questions people need to think about in terms of 338 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:08.279 accessibility when they go out. And I found some of 339 00:19:08.299 --> 00:19:16.640 your questions really helpful in their specificity and thoughtful, in 340 00:19:16.690 --> 00:19:20.680 line with what Bruce Bruce's title, they're mindful. You're mindful 341 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:24.569 of how you travel. So just give us a couple 342 00:19:24.630 --> 00:19:27.130 examples of what are the things that

you ask people 343 00:19:27.150 --> 00:19:28.630 to think about when they go to locations. 344 00:19:30.829 --> 00:19:36.849 Well, I just, I want to say we spent a 345 00:19:36.890 --> 00:19:43.049 lot of time going personally and thinking about what we 346 00:19:43.089 --> 00:19:47.619 were looking for when we went. before we developed our checklist, 347 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:51.410 which is in the process of being updated. also for 348 00:19:51.450 --> 00:19:55.589 people to be able to use, to know about things. 349 00:19:56.269 --> 00:20:00.890 And the idea of misinformation and lack of information is 350 00:20:00.990 --> 00:20:06.819 so true. When you talk about mindfulness and places to rest, 351 00:20:07.460 --> 00:20:11.970 it was interesting to us I'll give you an example 352 00:20:12.269 --> 00:20:16.319 of Comset Park, which is a beautiful place to visit. 353 00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:20.859 And there is a lovely, I'll call it a path. 354 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:23.880 It's really, you know, a roadway that is a mile 355 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:27.849 and a half long from the parking area down to 356 00:20:28.049 --> 00:20:30.269 the mansion and where you can see the water and 357 00:20:30.309 --> 00:20:34.190 stuff like that. It's gorgeous. Okay. And so most people 358 00:20:34.250 --> 00:20:36.410 wouldn't think about the fact that it's a mile and 359 00:20:36.430 --> 00:20:40.049 a half, it's paved, it's flat, no problem. However, there 360 00:20:40.089 --> 00:20:44.109 are only four benches in that mile and a half walkway. 361 00:20:45.190 --> 00:20:47.569 Not only are there only four benches in that mile 362 00:20:47.589 --> 00:20:49.490 and a half walkway, but if you want to sit 363 00:20:49.529 --> 00:20:52.160 down on one of those benches, you have to go 364 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:55.759 off the path and cut across probably 20 feet of 365 00:20:55.779 --> 00:21:00.019 the grass to get to a bench. Now, most of 366 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.200 us wouldn't give it a second thought. I wouldn't have 367 00:21:03.220 --> 00:21:06.089 given it a second thought before my stint in a wheelchair, 368 00:21:06.809 --> 00:21:11.049 or actually now as a senior. It's something that you 369 00:21:11.109 --> 00:21:14.950 don't think about, but certainly could be of value to 370 00:21:15.009 --> 00:21:18.150 you to know and to plan for if you are 371 00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:21.369 going someplace. So what we tried to do was go 372 00:21:21.410 --> 00:21:25.930 to visit places and come up with what things would 373 00:21:25.970 --> 00:21:28.890 be important to us as a person with any sort 374 00:21:28.930 --> 00:21:33.430 of a mobility limitation, whether it is, you know, resting 375 00:21:33.630 --> 00:21:37.930 or whether it is specifics about you get information that 376 00:21:37.950 --> 00:21:41.160 there's a restroom. And it says the restroom is accessible. 377 00:21:41.619 --> 00:21:44.039 It may say that, and it may be true or 378 00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:47.140 not true. Assume the restroom is accessible. It doesn't tell 379 00:21:47.180 --> 00:21:50.079 you if the restroom is a single occupancy restroom, which 380 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:53.309 I certainly would have loved for my dad. It doesn't 381 00:21:53.349 --> 00:21:56.990 tell you if the stall in the multi-stall restroom is 382 00:21:57.069 --> 00:22:01.509 large enough to accommodate a wheelchair. And oftentimes, I won't 383 00:22:01.549 --> 00:22:05.950 say oftentimes, sometimes they will tell you that the places 384 00:22:06.069 --> 00:22:10.359 are accessible when in fact they're not. So there are 385 00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:13.519 lots of things to think about. And in the years, 386 00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:15.880 as the years have gone on and we have done 387 00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:18.579 more of this, we've come to be, I want to say, 388 00:22:18.619 --> 00:22:22.119 more sensitive to people's needs. The idea now that so 389 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:27.289 many people have electric wheelchairs, that when the ADA was 390 00:22:27.430 --> 00:22:32.210 established and those guidelines were established, the stalls were not 391 00:22:32.589 --> 00:22:36.960 big enough for an electric wheelchair anymore. I have a 392 00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:41.119 friend who is in a motorized wheelchair and has said 393 00:22:41.180 --> 00:22:44.180 that she will not go someplace that she does not know, 394 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:49.619 particularly a restaurant, without a phone number for somebody to 395 00:22:49.700 --> 00:22:52.880 contact in the restaurant because she has been stuck in 396 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.180 restrooms where she is unable to open the door when 397 00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:58.690 she's gone in. She can't get out. Wow. If there's 398 00:22:58.829 --> 00:23:01.589 no one else who comes in to help her. Wow. 399 00:23:02.349 --> 00:23:02.589 Wow. 400 00:23:03.579 --> 00:23:07.400 We've learned not just from our own experiences, but happily 401 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.960 from people who we've spoken to and have shared their 402 00:23:11.019 --> 00:23:13.759 experiences with us. Right. 403 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:17.329 Bruce, just picking up there a little bit, we can 404 00:23:17.369 --> 00:23:21.289 talk a little bit about broadly accessibility issues in travel 405 00:23:21.329 --> 00:23:25.190 in general, but in addition to that, I'd like to 406 00:23:25.250 --> 00:23:28.950 get your thoughts on what are some of the questions 407 00:23:28.970 --> 00:23:31.210 that people aren't thinking about these days, whether it's about 408 00:23:31.279 --> 00:23:35.420 mobility or about the contingencies of travel, because things are 409 00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:40.430 changing in travel. And I think even though there's a 410 00:23:40.470 --> 00:23:42.990 lot more travel these days, and I think certainly as 411 00:23:43.029 --> 00:23:46.069 the holidays come up, we're going to see a return 412 00:23:46.130 --> 00:23:49.329 to what seemed

to be normal in years past. But 413 00:23:49.369 --> 00:23:52.579 there are things that we don't expect still. And there's 414 00:23:52.650 --> 00:23:56.160 constant change. There are constant delays. And there are things 415 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.380 like accessibility. I know that I was reading recently about, 416 00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:02.440 and you and I talked about this at a previous 417 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:07.930 conversation about talking about restrooms, you know, the, the, the, in, 418 00:24:08.150 --> 00:24:11.670 in airplanes, the restrooms really, in many of the newer 419 00:24:11.710 --> 00:24:15.700 jets really don't accommodate people very well. And that's just 420 00:24:15.740 --> 00:24:16.319 part of business. 421 00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:18.559 I definitely want to pick up what Roberta was talking about. 422 00:24:18.579 --> 00:24:20.640 I mean, you know, what's really funny is you think 423 00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:23.119 about the travel industry was supposed to be the hospitality 424 00:24:23.140 --> 00:24:26.410 industry and, you know, and people, you know, just think 425 00:24:26.430 --> 00:24:28.539 about that for a second. And, The one thing that, 426 00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:31.539 you know, I very much am focused on what Robert's 427 00:24:31.579 --> 00:24:34.819 talking about. You know, people have, you know, especially, you know, 428 00:24:34.900 --> 00:24:38.450 special needs. Special needs are individual. They're not, you can't 429 00:24:38.509 --> 00:24:40.829 group them together. You know, just because somebody, quote, is 430 00:24:40.869 --> 00:24:42.809 in a wheelchair doesn't mean all wheelchairs are the same, 431 00:24:42.869 --> 00:24:45.829 doesn't mean their needs are the same. And so it's 432 00:24:45.970 --> 00:24:49.710 very specific, you know, and it's broad. And, you know, 433 00:24:49.990 --> 00:24:52.759 you mentioned something about autism and, you know, there's certain, 434 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:59.170 you cruise lines or certain resorts that have specifically trained 435 00:24:59.269 --> 00:25:04.059 staff and understand the special needs. One thing that Roberta 436 00:25:04.099 --> 00:25:07.440 mentioned that I really focus on is that you have 437 00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:11.460 to have that specific contact at that specific location to 438 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:14.559 know that you've got people there that can talk knowledgeably 439 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:17.240 about what the specific situation is so that you know 440 00:25:17.299 --> 00:25:19.940 that special need is. I've got clients that if they 441 00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:23.559 do that, and I've got all kinds of, we're getting older, 442 00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:26.349 and people want to venture more. They want to have 443 00:25:26.410 --> 00:25:29.490 experiences and they shouldn't be limited because they have mobility issues. 444 00:25:30.019 --> 00:25:32.740 And so I think it's important that, you know, and 445 00:25:32.779 --> 00:25:35.200 people want to help from the hospitality side. They don't 446 00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:38.920 know how sometimes. And so educating them as well is 447 00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:41.420 an important aspect of it. And then working, you know, 448 00:25:41.579 --> 00:25:45.079 with a specific individual, okay, what are you comfortable doing? 449 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:47.549 What can you do? What do you need? I can 450 00:25:47.569 --> 00:25:50.930 help guide you in terms of what you're looking for. And, 451 00:25:51.069 --> 00:25:53.650 you know, and then to branch out a little bit 452 00:25:53.670 --> 00:25:56.970 more to your, follow-up question about the industry changing. I mean, 453 00:25:56.990 --> 00:25:59.089 we're still coming out of the pandemic. I mean, that 454 00:25:59.509 --> 00:26:03.329 definitely shut down the travel industry. You talk about how 455 00:26:03.369 --> 00:26:05.269 the impact that had in terms of the amount of 456 00:26:05.369 --> 00:26:09.470 layoffs and what's happening now because of the pent-up demand, 457 00:26:09.809 --> 00:26:13.190 we see, you know, demand outpacing capacity. So there's no 458 00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:16.539 way that you're not going to have these cancellations, these 459 00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:22.339 delayed flights, you know, overcrowding situations. And then, you know, Unfortunately, 460 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.460 if COVID spikes or the flu season picks up, you're 461 00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:27.900 going to have additional issues with that as well, too. 462 00:26:27.980 --> 00:26:31.140 So we're not back to what people would like to 463 00:26:31.180 --> 00:26:35.250 think of as normal travel experience. It's a challenge. And 464 00:26:35.269 --> 00:26:38.150 I think, again, that's going on there. I know people 465 00:26:38.349 --> 00:26:43.390 are anxious to go. And I'm encouraging people, don't do 466 00:26:43.450 --> 00:26:46.509 last minute travel. Plan things out far in advance so 467 00:26:46.529 --> 00:26:48.630 you have time to do the research and you can 468 00:26:48.650 --> 00:26:51.299 find out what's best for you. Maybe you don't want 469 00:26:51.319 --> 00:26:54.000 to visit maybe the most popular resort. Maybe there's a, 470 00:26:54.210 --> 00:26:56.970 there's a place that has less crowded that can accommodate, 471 00:26:56.990 --> 00:27:00.049 you know, special needs, but it's, it's changed drastically. And 472 00:27:00.069 --> 00:27:03.619 I think people need to know, uh, you know, how to, 473 00:27:03.900 --> 00:27:06.140 how to really look for an advocate that can help 474 00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:09.599 you guide you through, you know, a lot of this, but, uh, yeah, 475 00:27:09.619 --> 00:27:12.200 travel has been a challenge. I mean, pricing alone, uh, 476 00:27:12.740 --> 00:27:14.599 you know, you look at Disney world, Disney world now 477 00:27:14.619 --> 00:27:19.069 has implemented dynamic pricing on, on their park tickets. So, um, 478 00:27:20.109 -->

00:27:24.009 So not only do they have different prices for different days, 479 00:27:24.730 --> 00:27:27.009 as of December 8th, they've announced that they're going to 480 00:27:27.029 --> 00:27:30.910 have different prices, different days for different parks. So it's 481 00:27:30.970 --> 00:27:32.670 really going to be confusing when you go to purchase 482 00:27:32.690 --> 00:27:34.670 a ticket. If it's a one-day ticket, you need to 483 00:27:34.710 --> 00:27:36.349 know what day you're going to go to what park 484 00:27:36.769 --> 00:27:38.170 and then see what the price is because it's going 485 00:27:38.190 --> 00:27:40.289 to vary based on which specific park it is in 486 00:27:40.309 --> 00:27:43.930 the crowd. So it's becoming very cumbersome in terms of 487 00:27:44.230 --> 00:27:47.670 the planning process. You have more options. And so there's 488 00:27:47.710 --> 00:27:50.240 more questions and You know, it's great that you have 489 00:27:50.259 --> 00:27:52.720 the ability to fill out all these forms and to 490 00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.819 take advantage of mobile applications on your device, which is 491 00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:00.289 crucial today. Everybody, you know, that's one thing that's, you know, 492 00:28:00.509 --> 00:28:04.109 what the pandemic has changed in travel is the reliance 493 00:28:04.390 --> 00:28:08.069 on these mobile applications for your device, where you have 494 00:28:08.130 --> 00:28:13.130 more access to information. It's touchless. So, you know, make 495 00:28:13.190 --> 00:28:17.059 sure that you know how to read QR codes or, 496 00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:19.539 you know, quick response codes so that you can get 497 00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:21.960 the latest information because it's always changing and that's how 498 00:28:21.980 --> 00:28:25.599 they keep updated information. So it's really important that people 499 00:28:25.660 --> 00:28:28.299 have a little bit of understanding of technology and know 500 00:28:28.339 --> 00:28:30.480 how to use it, you know, as they look at 501 00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:33.279 this specific situation and what they want to travel with. 502 00:28:33.460 --> 00:28:34.160 Right. Right. 503 00:28:35.500 --> 00:28:35.829 Yeah. 504 00:28:36.420 --> 00:28:38.109 I'm sorry. Are we going to say something or. 505 00:28:38.410 --> 00:28:40.559 No, I know. I don't mean to butt in. 506 00:28:40.690 --> 00:28:41.450 No, absolutely. 507 00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:44.109 I'm listening to, to what you're, to what Bruce is 508 00:28:44.150 --> 00:28:48.279 saying and it's, and it's so true and it is, Really, 509 00:28:48.339 --> 00:28:50.720 there's so much more information and all of those things 510 00:28:50.779 --> 00:28:56.019 are true. But any of us who are technologically challenged 511 00:28:57.059 --> 00:29:00.200 are at, I feel like we're at such a disadvantage 512 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:04.839 that it's, there's no, I want to say there's like 513 00:29:04.900 --> 00:29:09.079 no place

left for us to get our information. And 514 00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:14.029 a perfect example of this was not traveling, but this 515 00:29:14.089 --> 00:29:16.400 past summer we were at Jones Beach. and it was 516 00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:20.819 the first time, the first show, a performance, and it 517 00:29:20.859 --> 00:29:22.779 was the first time that we had to go with 518 00:29:23.099 --> 00:29:26.599 a paperless ticket. There were no, there weren't, you couldn't 519 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:29.000 have a paper ticket. We always print a paper ticket. 520 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.049 And we were standing there, unable to get our paperless 521 00:29:33.089 --> 00:29:38.349 ticket to come up on our phones. And if it 522 00:29:38.390 --> 00:29:42.119 were not for one again, the nice, kind, young guy 523 00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:45.180 next to us who helped us do this, we still 524 00:29:45.220 --> 00:29:46.220 wouldn't be in that show. 525 00:29:49.170 --> 00:29:51.349 Unfortunately, Roberta, I think you're right. And I think that's 526 00:29:51.990 --> 00:29:54.410 a major problem that there's no solution to right now. 527 00:29:54.630 --> 00:29:57.390 People are not, if you look at the way the 528 00:29:59.190 --> 00:30:02.710 I'm finding less and less opportunities for people to have 529 00:30:03.109 --> 00:30:05.630 something that doesn't require technology. You can try to find 530 00:30:05.690 --> 00:30:07.750 a phone number to call somebody if you have a question. 531 00:30:08.049 --> 00:30:10.490 You know, if you don't do a chat online, you're 532 00:30:10.509 --> 00:30:13.950 not going to get any information. So the human touch 533 00:30:14.269 --> 00:30:17.589 that people have relied on over the years, especially for, 534 00:30:17.630 --> 00:30:20.599 like you said, you know, senior people, people like us 535 00:30:20.630 --> 00:30:24.440 that are as, you know, tech savvy, it's much more 536 00:30:24.460 --> 00:30:26.640 of a challenge. And you know, you have to invest, 537 00:30:26.660 --> 00:30:29.839 you know, I make sure that I work with my clients, 538 00:30:30.259 --> 00:30:32.460 some of them, you know, more challenges, I try to 539 00:30:32.500 --> 00:30:35.319 help them, like, you know, sometimes I print out stuff 540 00:30:35.500 --> 00:30:37.259 and mail it to them, so that they have it, 541 00:30:37.369 --> 00:30:40.309 you know, in their hands, if they can't do it, 542 00:30:40.329 --> 00:30:42.809 but more important, I try to, you know, encourage them, 543 00:30:42.829 --> 00:30:45.630 and again, I think people are reaching out to family 544 00:30:45.690 --> 00:30:49.390 members and friends, understanding that I don't have this capability, 545 00:30:49.490 --> 00:30:52.099 can you help me, and The good news is you 546 00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:55.079 can find people, but have that lined up because you 547 00:30:55.119 --> 00:31:00.049 need to have that today. You're traveling blind if you 548 00:31:00.089 --> 00:31:00.849 don't have technology. 549 00:31:01.130 --> 00:31:02.869 Yeah. 550 00:31:02.970 --> 00:31:05.130 I think you're both right in the sense that you 551 00:31:05.190 --> 00:31:08.269 need to have both. You need to be able to 552 00:31:08.690 --> 00:31:11.470 use the technology, but you also need to have advocates 553 00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:13.819 like the two of you who know the field and 554 00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:17.640 know what questions to ask because sometimes the technology breaks down. 555 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:20.180 It's not even your fault that you don't understand the technology. 556 00:31:20.450 --> 00:31:26.170 the technology doesn't work. And so just as you mentioned earlier, Berta, 557 00:31:26.210 --> 00:31:30.309 having a phone number of the location so you can call, 558 00:31:30.329 --> 00:31:37.250 hopefully they'll answer. And just what you mentioned earlier, Bruce, 559 00:31:37.309 --> 00:31:39.789 about the planning is so critical as far as you can, 560 00:31:39.829 --> 00:31:43.970 because there are just so many potential contingencies. And I 561 00:31:44.029 --> 00:31:48.670 think with the pandemic, as you mentioned, things really They're 562 00:31:48.690 --> 00:31:51.339 a lot freer and more open, but they're not back yet. 563 00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:55.519 And there's still issues of staffing. And many places are not, 564 00:31:55.779 --> 00:31:58.940 you know, staffed sufficiently. They can't get people to fill 565 00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:04.609 these jobs. So you're always under that gun of getting help. And, 566 00:32:04.849 --> 00:32:09.410 you know, I remember I was coming back. This was, 567 00:32:09.549 --> 00:32:15.259 I guess, in the spring from Florida. And we were 568 00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:19.960 delayed because of some severe storms. And that was, it 569 00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:22.680 was horrendous trying to get back, you know, even, you know, 570 00:32:23.019 --> 00:32:26.359 they didn't really give us a sufficient warning when we 571 00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:30.240 got to the airport. Like, oh, oh yeah. By the way, 572 00:32:31.660 --> 00:32:33.539 by the time we got to the gate, we just 573 00:32:33.579 --> 00:32:36.380 found out that our flight was canceled. Oh, okay. 574 00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:37.329 Now what? 575 00:32:37.829 --> 00:32:40.890 I don't know. You don't know? Well, I guess go 576 00:32:40.910 --> 00:32:44.269 back to the, you know, back to the airline and 577 00:32:44.289 --> 00:32:47.450 go back to the airline, you know, we wait on 578 00:32:47.490 --> 00:32:50.089 line there. No one says anything. And then we get 579 00:32:50.130 --> 00:32:51.970 to the front of the line and they say, Oh no, 580 00:32:52.009 --> 00:32:53.470 this is not the right line. You'd have to go 581 00:32:53.509 --> 00:32:54.789 to that line, you know? 582 00:32:55.630 --> 00:32:59.619 So for that specific situation, because that's a very common one. 583 00:33:00.150 --> 00:33:02.119 And let me tell you how the airlines

respond to that. 584 00:33:03.420 --> 00:33:06.220 The airlines attitude is we're going to, they can't get 585 00:33:06.259 --> 00:33:09.279 the staffing and then they got to train people. So 586 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:12.599 there's more of a push to technology. And so what 587 00:33:12.619 --> 00:33:15.819 happens is they, that's why they tell you, Every airline 588 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:20.000 has their own specific mobile app for their device. They 589 00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.140 encourage you to download that app. Once you download that 590 00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:25.660 app and you put on your flight information, your record 591 00:33:25.700 --> 00:33:29.220 located number, they will contact you. They'll say before you 592 00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:31.170 get to the airport, your flight's been canceled or changed. 593 00:33:32.250 --> 00:33:35.769 And now they'll tell you if you're at the airport 594 00:33:35.809 --> 00:33:38.670 and your flight changes, don't get online. Go to your 595 00:33:38.710 --> 00:33:42.779 phone and go to that app and and. connect with 596 00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.740 the person there about what flight schedule changes are available, 597 00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:49.759 and they'll help you that way. So they're forcing, just 598 00:33:49.819 --> 00:33:52.339 like the banks back in the day forced people to 599 00:33:52.420 --> 00:33:56.609 use ATM machines, the rest of the technology today, hospitality 600 00:33:56.619 --> 00:33:59.240 is forcing you to learn technology to be able to 601 00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:02.230 navigate the travel process. 602 00:34:02.490 --> 00:34:07.329 Yeah. Okay. We're going to take another short break, but 603 00:34:07.349 --> 00:34:11.579 I think that that's an important I still hear you 604 00:34:11.780 --> 00:34:14.099 in your statement that you still need to have advocates 605 00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.239 who know this information. And that's one of the problems 606 00:34:17.380 --> 00:34:20.739 is that it's a combination and it's tough to get 607 00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.909 that human touch, but we need to keep pursuing it. 608 00:34:22.949 --> 00:34:25.949 So folks, we have another great segment coming up. We'll 609 00:34:25.989 --> 00:34:29.550 be talking much more with Roberta and Bruce. So don't 610 00:34:29.590 --> 00:34:33.590 go away. We'll be right back. Welcome back to 45 Forward. 611 00:34:33.730 --> 00:34:36.530 Once again, I'm talking with Roberta Rosenberg, the founder of 612 00:34:36.590 --> 00:34:40.090 Destination Accessible. And Bruce Frankel, the president of the Mindful Traveler. 613 00:34:40.949 --> 00:34:43.170 So before the break, we were talking about all the 614 00:34:43.250 --> 00:34:46.429 vicissitudes of technology and the advantages. And one of the 615 00:34:46.449 --> 00:34:49.139 things is we need the technology, but we also still 616 00:34:49.179 --> 00:34:51.440 need to have sort of a human touch. And I 617 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:54.300 think one of

the things that I like, Roberta, about 618 00:34:54.380 --> 00:34:58.440 your website is the level of credibility. In other words, 619 00:34:59.019 --> 00:35:04.150 you've had personal experiences with the locations and the venues involved. 620 00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:06.760 you know, that you talk about. And I think that's 621 00:35:06.820 --> 00:35:10.480 important that there is that level of involvement, you know, 622 00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.250 and knowledge about the menus themselves. Because that's given you 623 00:35:15.269 --> 00:35:17.730 the experience to ask the right questions, you know. And 624 00:35:17.750 --> 00:35:21.570 I think that that's something to reiterate what Bruce said. 625 00:35:21.690 --> 00:35:23.909 People don't know the right questions they ask sometimes. So 626 00:35:25.130 --> 00:35:26.949 talk a little bit about your experiences in going to 627 00:35:26.989 --> 00:35:30.250 places and perhaps some of the things you discovered along 628 00:35:30.269 --> 00:35:30.530 the way. 629 00:35:32.570 --> 00:35:37.809 Well, I think that what we pride ourselves in is 630 00:35:37.869 --> 00:35:41.570 the fact that we have gone. And so anybody who 631 00:35:41.670 --> 00:35:45.409 is using us as an advocate can be assured that 632 00:35:45.489 --> 00:35:49.750 the information that they are getting from the technology website 633 00:35:50.750 --> 00:35:53.710 is correct as of the date that we were there. 634 00:35:54.150 --> 00:35:59.429 Some people have questioned the fact that we haven't been 635 00:35:59.469 --> 00:36:02.250 able to revisit every place and update all of these 636 00:36:02.329 --> 00:36:05.739 things on a let's say even a yearly basis. But 637 00:36:05.780 --> 00:36:08.920 the truth is, if you've gone to a place, let's 638 00:36:08.940 --> 00:36:12.599 just say five years ago when we started researching this, 639 00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:17.360 the level of, you know, the exhibits in the museum 640 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:21.909 may have changed, but the level of accessibility is probably 641 00:36:21.989 --> 00:36:24.610 just the same as it was then. If it's changed 642 00:36:24.650 --> 00:36:28.250 at all, it's changed for the better. And so you can, 643 00:36:28.369 --> 00:36:30.449 you know, you can be assured when you go to 644 00:36:30.530 --> 00:36:33.590 our website, that what you read there is what we 645 00:36:33.690 --> 00:36:37.389 saw and the date is clearly printed of what we saw. 646 00:36:37.989 --> 00:36:42.440 And the idea about asking specific questions, it's really important 647 00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:47.059 to know specific questions to ask. And if you don't 648 00:36:47.179 --> 00:36:52.380 know what to ask, then you are just left out 649 00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.280 in the dark. And I'll give an example of my 650 00:36:55.420 --> 00:36:58.219 early years with my mom. Before we knew anything, I 651 00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:02.289 was asked about, she needed an accessible internet. shower to 652 00:37:02.329 --> 00:37:05.260 get into the, you know, in, in, to use it. 653 00:37:05.980 --> 00:37:09.340 And so we, we went to California and we, I, 654 00:37:09.579 --> 00:37:12.480 I thought I researched so well, you know, a hotel 655 00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:16.539 that had accessible shower, no problem. We got there and 656 00:37:16.940 --> 00:37:19.579 lo and behold, it was a bathtub with a, with 657 00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:22.889 a railing in the bathtub. And when I, when I 658 00:37:23.389 --> 00:37:26.730 called downstairs to say, I don't understand, you know, we 659 00:37:26.849 --> 00:37:30.119 asked for an accessible room and my mom needs, she's 660 00:37:30.139 --> 00:37:33.199 in a wheelchair. And they said, well, that's our accessible room. 661 00:37:33.929 --> 00:37:37.210 That is what, you know, so we, I didn't know 662 00:37:37.309 --> 00:37:42.489 to say, do you have a roll-in shower? I didn't 663 00:37:42.570 --> 00:37:45.920 know to say, are there any steps to get to, 664 00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:50.099 you know, wherever it is. Another example is a restaurant 665 00:37:50.139 --> 00:37:54.920 that we went to maybe last month. and was assured 666 00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:57.780 on the phone that they had an accessible restroom. I 667 00:37:57.900 --> 00:38:00.139 asked if they had seen it. Yes. That's a, that's 668 00:38:00.179 --> 00:38:03.570 a different topic to discuss, but we got there to 669 00:38:03.630 --> 00:38:07.369 find out that yes, they definitely had a beautiful single 670 00:38:07.449 --> 00:38:11.590 occupancy accessible restroom, except the restroom was up three steps, 671 00:38:14.349 --> 00:38:19.090 not information that I had even thought to ask. They, 672 00:38:19.469 --> 00:38:23.750 they were, They answered my question. Their answer was correct, 673 00:38:24.380 --> 00:38:27.440 but they neglected to say that, well, you had to 674 00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.300 go out the front and around the corner and go 675 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:33.539 to the other entrance to the restaurant, which would have 676 00:38:33.579 --> 00:38:36.739 taken you to their upper dining level where the accessible 677 00:38:36.820 --> 00:38:41.760 restroom is. So we're learning again, these are things to ask. 678 00:38:41.949 --> 00:38:44.550 And I think that it's interesting to know we just 679 00:38:44.590 --> 00:38:48.739 developed a tips sheet for when you have to call. 680 00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:51.559 You don't get the information online or the venue is 681 00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:55.019 certainly thousands of venues that are not on our website. 682 00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:59.070 And so you have to be very specific in what 683 00:38:59.130 --> 00:39:03.130 you are asking. And you can't say, well, is the 684 00:39:03.170 --> 00:39:06.550 facility easy to enter? That is not going to get, 685 00:39:06.570 --> 00:39:08.530 you know, the person on the phone is going to say, sure, 686 00:39:08.590 --> 00:39:11.590 you know, the

person on the phone is probably 20 687 00:39:11.590 --> 00:39:15.699 years old and never thinks about these things. So sure, 688 00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:19.210 you know, there's, No problem at all. Or the person 689 00:39:19.250 --> 00:39:21.789 could be a person who says, you know, you really 690 00:39:21.849 --> 00:39:24.489 can't get in the front also happened to us too 691 00:39:24.510 --> 00:39:27.530 many steps, but go around with the wheelchair to the 692 00:39:27.590 --> 00:39:29.769 back you won't have any problem getting in because there 693 00:39:29.789 --> 00:39:33.090 were only three steps back there. That's a person who 694 00:39:33.309 --> 00:39:36.489 just doesn't know. So people want to be helpful, but 695 00:39:36.510 --> 00:39:39.659 they just don't have the information. And so I'm not 696 00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:41.440 going to go through all the things, but I would 697 00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:45.760 encourage people to go to our website and look up, 698 00:39:46.139 --> 00:39:48.920 look up for our tip sheet about if you have 699 00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:51.219 to call And I'm going to go back to what 700 00:39:51.260 --> 00:39:56.719 Bruce said about pre-planning. The earlier you begin, the better 701 00:39:56.900 --> 00:39:59.929 off you are in getting the information that you need. 702 00:40:00.329 --> 00:40:02.010 So if you know that you're going to a venue 703 00:40:02.050 --> 00:40:06.730 in two weeks, and you have a reservation for that venue, 704 00:40:07.010 --> 00:40:11.880 you would be best to call immediately. Because when you call, 705 00:40:11.900 --> 00:40:13.900 one of the things you have to ask the person 706 00:40:13.940 --> 00:40:16.880 who is giving you that information is, have you personally 707 00:40:16.980 --> 00:40:19.500 seen what you are telling me? And if that person 708 00:40:19.539 --> 00:40:24.340 hesitates two seconds, you need to say, could you please 709 00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.139 check on it and get back to me? And I 710 00:40:27.179 --> 00:40:29.699 have to say, 99% of the time, I have never 711 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:34.030 had someone not call me back with the information. But 712 00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:37.389 you need to be prepared. You need to. A person 713 00:40:37.429 --> 00:40:39.949 had called me to ask about some questions about Westbury 714 00:40:39.989 --> 00:40:42.809 Music Fair. Now, it's not called that anymore. In my day, 715 00:40:42.849 --> 00:40:46.789 it was called Westbury Music Fair. Most of you probably 716 00:40:46.849 --> 00:40:50.340 know it. And it's a great place and it is accessible. 717 00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.639 Someone called me with questions that we did not have 718 00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:57.570 on our website. And so I offered to call for, 719 00:40:57.650 --> 00:41:00.269 it took four phone calls and four back and forth 720 00:41:00.769 --> 00:41:03.170 for us to get the information. We did get the 721 00:41:03.210 --> 00:41:06.179 information and it was

fine and everything worked out great, 722 00:41:06.739 --> 00:41:09.780 but you have to, you need lead time at the 723 00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:10.360 very least. 724 00:41:10.739 --> 00:41:11.659 Right, right. 725 00:41:11.679 --> 00:41:13.980 You know, and again, Ron, you're right. Roberta is a 726 00:41:14.099 --> 00:41:18.230 great example of an advocate. And that's the whole concept 727 00:41:18.269 --> 00:41:20.789 of how do you find these people? And so it's 728 00:41:20.889 --> 00:41:23.909 great when you can. In the travel industry, it's a 729 00:41:23.949 --> 00:41:27.690 little bit more diverse. I could tell you that most good, 730 00:41:28.289 --> 00:41:30.449 we don't call ourselves travel agents. We call ourselves travel 731 00:41:30.469 --> 00:41:33.090 advisors because we're more of an advocate these days. I 732 00:41:33.130 --> 00:41:35.550 think there's a lot of qualified people. I think that's 733 00:41:35.570 --> 00:41:38.090 what I would encourage anybody to do if they're looking 734 00:41:38.199 --> 00:41:41.380 to plan a trip, especially if you're not visiting friends 735 00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:44.260 and family. problem, and especially if you're going out of 736 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:46.260 the country for the first time to someplace you haven't been, 737 00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:49.099 you want a travel advocate. And so you really need 738 00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:52.260 to talk to people, find out who's a good travel advisor, 739 00:41:52.619 --> 00:41:56.780 somebody who's got experience, somebody who's got some knowledge, find 740 00:41:56.840 --> 00:41:58.929 and talk to them and just have a conversation. Most 741 00:41:58.969 --> 00:42:02.150 of them, if you're planning a cruise or an escorted 742 00:42:02.230 --> 00:42:04.630 tour or a trip, they're probably not even going to 743 00:42:04.670 --> 00:42:07.670 charge you. So it's good to get the information, talk 744 00:42:07.690 --> 00:42:11.369 to somebody who knows as far as advocates. Also, look 745 00:42:11.389 --> 00:42:13.460 for chats. I mean, there are people that, you know, 746 00:42:13.469 --> 00:42:15.980 there are a lot of clubs these days. Facebook is 747 00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:18.760 not a bad thing sometimes. And it's, there's an opportunity 748 00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:22.340 there where, you know, you'll see groups on certain interests. 749 00:42:22.780 --> 00:42:26.159 So people who have the same issue may be sharing 750 00:42:26.199 --> 00:42:29.730 a Facebook group where they can share their own experiences 751 00:42:30.289 --> 00:42:33.849 and it's the same special need or same interest. And 752 00:42:33.869 --> 00:42:36.630 that's the thing too. So again, you know, going back to, 753 00:42:36.869 --> 00:42:39.389 it's never too early to start planning, you know, take 754 00:42:39.409 --> 00:42:42.489 your time, Look at all these options, reach out to 755 00:42:42.530 --> 00:42:44.989 as many people as you can, and that's how you'll 756 00:42:45.010 --> 00:42:45.989 have a better experience. 757 00:42:46.150 --> 00:42:46.409 Yeah. 758 00:42:46.949 --> 00:42:48.429 And I think for both of you, I mean, there 759 00:42:48.449 --> 00:42:51.559 are sort of technical and then there are social issues. 760 00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:55.039 In other words, so like for you, Bruce, you were 761 00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:57.139 talking to me the other day about the changes and 762 00:42:57.179 --> 00:43:00.920 requirements for real IDs. So there are certain very specific 763 00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:03.369 things that you need to know as you travel. And 764 00:43:03.389 --> 00:43:06.070 then also for both of you talking about, well, what's 765 00:43:06.110 --> 00:43:08.989 the experience you want with the people you're with? And 766 00:43:09.030 --> 00:43:12.289 what are the needs of you when you're involved in groups, 767 00:43:12.329 --> 00:43:14.139 whether you're just going to dinner with people or you're 768 00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:19.239 going to, you know, on a tour with somebody. So 769 00:43:20.380 --> 00:43:23.659 being specific in your questions about, and lots of times 770 00:43:23.739 --> 00:43:26.070 I think the two of you are the ones who 771 00:43:26.510 --> 00:43:29.389 are the advocates who could elicit the right questions because 772 00:43:29.409 --> 00:43:31.190 people aren't even thinking about that. Oh, we're going to 773 00:43:31.210 --> 00:43:31.710 have a good time. 774 00:43:31.750 --> 00:43:32.130 Yeah, yeah. 775 00:43:32.150 --> 00:43:33.210 It's like, okay. 776 00:43:33.230 --> 00:43:36.980 Absolutely. You're absolutely right, especially about, you've mentioned the real 777 00:43:37.059 --> 00:43:40.469 ID issue, which is coming up now. They postponed it. 778 00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:44.849 The real ID Act was passed in Congress in 2005, 779 00:43:44.849 --> 00:43:46.869 but it kept being pushed back. And that came out 780 00:43:46.889 --> 00:43:50.230 of the 9-11 Commission. And so the concept was, how 781 00:43:50.250 --> 00:43:52.690 do we enhance the security of going through the airport 782 00:43:52.889 --> 00:43:55.690 and for domestic flights? And that's what's really caused the 783 00:43:55.730 --> 00:44:00.230 real ID issue. And it's a much more detailed process, 784 00:44:00.349 --> 00:44:04.400 usually with your local DMV, to get the specific information. 785 00:44:04.699 --> 00:44:07.519 And I tell people it's on the site to detail specifics, 786 00:44:07.699 --> 00:44:11.179 but bring extra documentation because things have changed. One of 787 00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:13.070 the things about passports, you know, you could use a 788 00:44:13.090 --> 00:44:17.230 passport if it's valid. What's a valid passport? In some places, 789 00:44:17.289 --> 00:44:20.250 it's not the date of expiration. Some countries require you 790 00:44:20.269 --> 00:44:23.989 to have a valid passport six months beyond your date 791 00:44:24.050 --> 00:44:27.920 of returning from your trip. And people

don't realize that. 792 00:44:28.019 --> 00:44:31.239 So now again, there's resources, the State Department, especially if 793 00:44:31.260 --> 00:44:34.179 you're going out of the country, Has great resources on 794 00:44:34.239 --> 00:44:37.690 their site. And you can find that as well as detail. 795 00:44:37.710 --> 00:44:41.969 But again, it's very specific information. Like Roberta was talking about, 796 00:44:42.010 --> 00:44:44.409 you can't ask a general question. You have to really 797 00:44:44.449 --> 00:44:48.449 be able to know the specifics. And as a consumer, 798 00:44:49.139 --> 00:44:53.139 share the specifics. Here's my specific need. And so I 799 00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:58.019 could do small steps. I can't do big steps. Whatever 800 00:44:58.059 --> 00:45:01.860 it is, just to help more in terms of the detail. Yeah. 801 00:45:03.269 --> 00:45:07.170 And I think that just being sensitive to the people 802 00:45:07.210 --> 00:45:09.789 you're traveling with, whether you're going, again, whether you're going 803 00:45:09.829 --> 00:45:13.730 to a restaurant or whether you're going to China. I mean, you're, 804 00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:19.340 so what's the experience that you want as a group? 805 00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:21.980 And just being aware, like if I'm going to someone like, 806 00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:24.219 just asking people in your group, do you have any 807 00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:26.699 mobility issues? Do you have any needs? You know, so 808 00:45:26.739 --> 00:45:30.239 that you're aware of the social dynamics of your travel 809 00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:34.639 or just socializing in general. So I think that's, you know, 810 00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:35.340 go ahead, Roberta. 811 00:45:35.380 --> 00:45:38.400 I just want to say people, you know, one of 812 00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:40.960 the things about it, and I'm sure Bruce knows, you know, 813 00:45:41.559 --> 00:45:45.670 has this same situation that people, for the most part, 814 00:45:45.710 --> 00:45:48.869 nobody wants to be mean about it. People just don't know. 815 00:45:48.889 --> 00:45:52.960 And if you don't need it, you don't think about it. 816 00:45:53.070 --> 00:45:57.260 You know, it is absolutely the truth, you know, as 817 00:45:57.320 --> 00:46:01.300 I said about my own particular situation. But interestingly enough 818 00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:05.059 to me, I gave a presentation to a tour guides group, 819 00:46:05.179 --> 00:46:08.860 the guides themselves from New York City tour guides. And 820 00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:14.070 it was astounding how much they didn't know and how 821 00:46:14.119 --> 00:46:20.690 much they didn't even think about the fact that they 822 00:46:20.730 --> 00:46:24.760 should stop and talk near a place where there was 823 00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:27.079 a bench in case somebody in the group needed to 824 00:46:27.139 --> 00:46:29.630 sit down. that had never occurred to them. And they 825 00:46:30.730 --> 00:46:33.769 were very grateful for the sort of tips and suggestions 826 00:46:33.809 --> 00:46:36.179 that I made. But it was interesting to me, these 827 00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:39.500 are tour guides. These are New York City accredited tour 828 00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:42.860 guides who didn't think about it, not because they weren't 829 00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:45.699 kind about it, but they did make the point that 830 00:46:46.139 --> 00:46:50.369 if anybody came to them in a group and said 831 00:46:50.389 --> 00:46:54.449 this was a need for them, then they would try 832 00:46:54.489 --> 00:46:56.909 to accommodate them. But they also made the point that 833 00:46:57.250 --> 00:46:59.690 if someone would contact them in advance, so if you 834 00:46:59.730 --> 00:47:02.550 made two weeks in advance, you were going someplace, give 835 00:47:02.610 --> 00:47:05.309 them a heads up. And I think that's important to 836 00:47:05.369 --> 00:47:10.010 know for anybody that is looking for information, whether you're 837 00:47:10.030 --> 00:47:15.960 traveling the world, whether you're traveling to Manhattan, I don't 838 00:47:15.980 --> 00:47:18.650 wanna say be prepared, but do your homework And get 839 00:47:18.710 --> 00:47:21.090 your answers as far in advance as you can. 840 00:47:22.730 --> 00:47:22.929 Right. 841 00:47:24.090 --> 00:47:26.750 Anything additional on that, Bruce? I mean, I think that's 842 00:47:27.210 --> 00:47:27.989 the message. 843 00:47:28.030 --> 00:47:31.610 You have to know what to expect. And you really 844 00:47:31.650 --> 00:47:36.070 need to know those things. And so, again, I commend 845 00:47:36.090 --> 00:47:38.340 you for taking time. And that's it. People want to know. 846 00:47:38.360 --> 00:47:40.599 They want to help. But they just don't have a clue. 847 00:47:40.739 --> 00:47:45.260 I mean, unless they've faced the situation before, they don't know. 848 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:48.699 So it's new to everybody. And that's why, you know, 849 00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:51.780 consumers have to speak up too. And they have to say, hey, 850 00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:53.840 you know, this is what I need. I'm planning ahead. 851 00:47:53.860 --> 00:47:56.739 Who do I need to talk to and do that? 852 00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:00.519 But again, just educating people. I mean, it's a process. 853 00:48:00.969 --> 00:48:02.199 And so, you know, we look to do it as 854 00:48:02.260 --> 00:48:02.949 much as possible. 855 00:48:03.230 --> 00:48:07.309 Yeah, great. We're coming to a close, unfortunately. But I 856 00:48:07.329 --> 00:48:08.750 just want to, before we go, I want to make 857 00:48:08.809 --> 00:48:12.170 sure I mentioned a couple things. First of all, how 858 00:48:12.210 --> 00:48:15.289 people can contact you. First of all, Roberta, tell people 859 00:48:15.309 --> 00:48:17.539 the website again. They probably know it. can figure it 860 00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:19.639 out but what's the website and how can people get 861 00:48:19.659 -->

00:48:20.280 in touch with you. 862 00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:24.949 Uh the website is destinationaccessible.org or dot com but if 863 00:48:24.989 --> 00:48:28.050 you put in destination accessible on google we're the first 864 00:48:28.130 --> 00:48:30.469 one to come up okay we are the only ones 865 00:48:30.489 --> 00:48:31.730 who do this and is. 866 00:48:31.670 --> 00:48:33.710 The best way to reach you is through the website 867 00:48:33.789 --> 00:48:34.510 or do you can. 868 00:48:34.409 --> 00:48:39.989 Reach me roberta at destinationaccessible.org there's a way to reach 869 00:48:40.010 --> 00:48:41.429 me on the website no. 870 00:48:41.329 --> 00:48:43.690 Problem okay and bruce how about you i'm. 871 00:48:43.610 --> 00:48:51.579 Easily reachable Okay, yes, through technology. The mindful traveler.com. And 872 00:48:51.760 --> 00:48:54.539 my email is Bruce at the mindful traveler.com. And there's 873 00:48:54.579 --> 00:48:56.860 a contact us page on there as well with the 874 00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:59.400 information to do it. So yeah, I encourage people, if 875 00:48:59.699 --> 00:49:01.949 you have any questions and, and often I, you know, 876 00:49:01.989 --> 00:49:04.730 it's not unusual for me to tell somebody they don't 877 00:49:04.769 --> 00:49:07.820 need my service. here's where you can go get the information. 878 00:49:08.300 --> 00:49:10.380 Make the extra call. It doesn't cost you anything to 879 00:49:10.420 --> 00:49:13.420 check and find out. Shoot me an email. Hey, this 880 00:49:13.460 --> 00:49:15.590 is a question I have. Where should I go? And 881 00:49:16.590 --> 00:49:19.610 I love responding to that. People like Roberta and myself, 882 00:49:19.650 --> 00:49:23.340 we're passionate. about what we do. We care. And so 883 00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:25.900 if we can help you just answer a question, take 884 00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:26.679 advantage of it. 885 00:49:27.219 --> 00:49:29.139 Thanks so much, guys. Okay, well, I want to thank 886 00:49:29.179 --> 00:49:32.010 you for a terrific show. Once again, folks, tell your 887 00:49:32.030 --> 00:49:34.769 friends if they missed my conversation with Bruce and Roberta today, 888 00:49:35.150 --> 00:49:37.809 you can listen to it as a podcast on voiceamerica.com. 889 00:49:37.929 --> 00:49:40.519 Search for my show, 45 Forward. You can also find 890 00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:46.539 it on Apple, Google Podcasts, Spotify. And so if you 891 00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:50.480 have any questions for me, you can email me at ron.rowell 892 00:49:50.539 --> 00:49:55.570 at gmail.com. In the meantime, be sure to join me 893 00:49:55.639 --> 00:49:59.309 next Monday, 12 noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern time, when 894 00:49:59.329 --> 00:50:04.510 I'll be running a terrific encore presentation, talking with Alexandra Cerrone, 895 00:50:04.550 --> 00:50:07.269 a nutritionist, just in time for all the challenges of 896 00:50:07.349 --> 00:50:11.710 our holiday food splurging. who will talk about commonsensical and 897 00:50:11.769 --> 00:50:16.510 refreshingly nonjudgmental approaches, not only as to what we eat, 898 00:50:16.820 --> 00:50:20.059 but how we eat every day, what she calls, appropriately, 899 00:50:20.500 --> 00:50:27.030 mindful or intuitive eating. So, folks, with that, I'll see 900 00:50:27.070 --> 00:50:30.409 you next time. Until then, keep moving forward, 45Forward.